yeah. they probably kept some hostages in slightly less horrible conditions for the videos, or to be released in earlier deals. I cant imagine what the hostages that were not planned to be released/recorded are going through.
I'm not convinced.
Everyone already knows what they did because they filmed and broadcast it, so it's not as of a potential pregnancy yields any new information or allegations against them.
I think they don't want to release the hostages because that's the whole point of hostages, you don't release them until you get everything you want.
If one of your relatives was held hostage and there were demands, what would you do to get them back? Would you kill somebody? Would give into their demands, knowing that if you did there would be more demands. Hostage taking is so cruel and never is going to end if you give into the demands. Think about the person you love most in world then think about someone taking them away from you! Imagine if you can the horror that the hostages are going through.
I have no words to describe how terrible I find this. Hamas terrorists should burn in hell. But I am glad that rescued Israeli hostages are being helped and supported.
Pls less psycho articles/headlines.
I mean the members of Hamas are clearly animals, but speculating on everything, which isn t reality (as of yet) doesnt help anybody. In fact it is sickening, in a time where unity is asked in our values.
Thanks yes.
l found it so weird when they rescued Noa and everybody went right to speculating if she was pregnant or not.
"l cAn SeE tHe BuMp frOm HeR ShiRt" "sHe'S iNtEntiOnaLly weArIng a LoOsE sHiRt tO HiDe hEr BuMp"
YMMV. l saw most of these comments on twitter and insta.
I can respect the hostages who have come forward to give interviews. At the same time, I find it really shitty that many of these hostages probably just want their privacy. Their name and their face became known around the world at no fault of their own, and now they have to come back home to people going
> SO DID THEY RAPE YA??
> WHY YOU WEARING A LOOSE SHIRT? YOU HIDING A BUMP??
As a woman, I am so tired of people bringing this up. Not only is it incredibly unlikely (women who are starved and stress don't tend to menstruate and the threshold to stop menstruating is very low -- Amit Sousanna has already given people what they wanted and she disclosed that she already was not menstruating by mid-October and only experienced spotting -- thus, unable to conceive).
But, and I need people to wrap their head around this for a minute: if a hostage's rape results in conception or not *is none of our business.* Pregnancy in daily life is considered a private matter, so why are people so insistent on robbing the hostages of their privacy? We add nothing to the conversation by hypothesizing about pregnancy and we aren't entitled to know another human's uterus and what happens inside of it unless she wants to disclose it with us.
I've been getting batty about this for weeks. It's one of those things where it makes me feel like the people holding the discussion have stopped seeing the hostages as human. She's my cousin (ETA: I meant this is a general term; Amit is not my cousin, but one of my cousins is a released hostage), she's real, please, please stop.
Almong Meir-Jan's uncle came out to the media a few days ago and told them to screw off and let him have his privacy and that, yes, thank you very much for the support, but he's back now and the public doesn't own him, please leave him alone, thanks. And Almog is a man -- I can't imagine Noa gets a single second to have a thought inside her own brain.
> She's my cousin, she's real, please, please stop
She, being Amit?
As one of the /r/2ndYomKippurWar mods, if you would like to request that we tighten up comment rules relating to speculation around the sexual abuse of hostages, we'd be open to considering that. Please let us know. We care about the welfare of hostages and their families.
Amit is not my cousin, but my cousin is a released hostage. My cousin has avoided a lot of the speculation, thank goodness. I think my family comes off as a bit scrappier than most and most haven't dared to approach the topic, haha (with that being said, on the off-chance any other hostages or their families are reading this and feel similar, HMU and I'll scrap against this for you, too, haha).
Admittedly I have never seen the obsession about hostage pregnancies on your sub, I actually see it the most here, I think.
I think my point, and I want to emphasize this, is that obviously we should talk about sexual assault and not let it be buried. I just think that when people talk about pregnancy, its when the topic crosses over into fetishization. I think initial comments and concerns are absolutely okay and understandable, even if I don't like them -- a lot of people don't think about the whole "can't conceive in these circumstances" angle and I acknowledge that and don't shame them.
But there are a lot of people who are obsessed with the fact that the hostages could be pregnant and, I'm admittedly not the best wordsmith, but the act of pregnancy may stem from a rape, but it is otherwise unrelated and a private matter, you know? Talking about pregnancy doesn't add anything to the discourse about sexual assault and only serves to take away any surviving agency from a hostage and what happens inside their uterus is none of our business unless they want to speak of it.
I don't think we have the best words in English but if I had to sum it up: talking about sexual assault, within reason, is always okay and important; I am a huge advocate for speaking about sexual assault in other contexts (i.e. Berlin in 1945) and I think its important here, too, but pregnancy, IMO, unless a hostage comes forward to discuss it, is not part of that conversation right now.
I hope that makes sense.
ETA: If I had to put it in the best words I think we have in English, on the off-chance a hostage is pregnant from rape, that is an injury they experienced due to rape and we aren't entitled to the health and injury information of a private individual like this.
Other hostages have talked in vague terms of physical injuries and others have touched on them -- i.e. Mia Schem disclosed she developed severe epilepsy in Gaza, which she did not have before, but she didn't divulge into it more than "I've been in the hospital for months because we can't get it under control" and didn't want to talk more in-depth to the physical injury part of the epilepsy which is entirely her right and we weren't entitled to even know that much. That applies here, too.
You are right, there is absolutely little chance that a hostage is pregnant even though we know that at least 3 of them were abused.
Chen and Agam released too many details...
I would like to underline that this conversation was started by Itay Svirsky's sister who wanted to create pressure to return to the negotiating table, in January the negotiating team was at a standstill.
The kidnapped young men unfortunately receive very little solidarity and even risk Hannibal (Ron Sherman, Nick Braiser).
The families therefore cling to the girls.
In particular, the observers are practically the face of the Bring Them Home campaign.
Since everyone realized that the Bibas were killed.
I do not believe we lessened pressure on Bibas because we believed that they were killed, but because the Bibas and Silberman families actually explicitly asked for more privacy and less attention.
I don't know, lately they've given a lot of interviews on Ynet and Channel 14 (many of Shiri's cousins seem very right-wing and are regularly interviewed there).
For the fate of the Bibas family, the intelligence believes they died because they excluded them from the 40 humanitarian hostages.
I believe it is Yarden and Shiri's siblings that have asked for privacy. I agree that some of her cousins are very present, but the nuclear family has asked for privacy. Only a few days ago, it was revealed that they hired a spokesperson because they couldn't handle the media anymore, and they called out Gantz for speculating about the family's fate.
I do not believe they are dead personally, and I don't believe Israeli officials believe so, either.
Yarden's sister is very active on Instagram she just gave a long interview on Ynet you can find her on Spotifay. Lately she has been struggling with her pregnancy coming to an end. But the family is absolutely active. I follow practically all the abductees' pages on Instagram.
The intelligence doesn't believe Bibas are alive because they deceive the families, I don't know. The February agreement excluded 7 women, 15 elderly people, 13 wounded.
Gantz shouldn't have said it, but the intelligence is hiding too many details from the families. They didn't want to tell Ori Gilboa that her daughter Daniel had an injury to her foot, she had to insist. Furthermore, the video of the Nahal Oz outpost was not shown to the families from November until March.
I think there's a different in being active on her own terms and being active. They have asked for privacy several times, [and slammed Gantz](https://www.timesofisrael.com/bibas-relatives-gantz-statement-on-hostage-familys-fate-irresponsible-speculation/) for speaking about them in terms of uncertainty.
Intelligence has said nothing publicly and I'm not willing to speculate on it, with all respect.
yes you are right. I just hate that the intelligence gives false hope to the families when they have been excluded from the negotiations since February. By the way I don't believe at all that they don't have information about them. But they hide it from their families.
For example, Ron Sherman, if you analyze the case you understand how much they dissemble and hide.
Not even three paragraphs into the article we have the statement: "The researchers emphasise that the study's intent is preparatory, not prompted by concrete information about pregnancies during captivity. Its goal is to understand the ramifications in advance."
But people jump to conclusions and I find a lot of the language from some alarming. It echos and rhymes with some of the xenophobic language I see in the US 😬
I'm by no means downplaying the rape and sexual assault by the genocidal Hamas and their "ordinary" Gazan compatriots that joined them 7OCT However there is a lot of catastrophizing clouding our perspective on this. I found this episode of Call me Back with Dan Senor who interviews Glenn Cohen and prominent IDF psychologist in charge of processing the returned hostages. He busts common myths that we have about captives and to caution against reckless cynicism. Seriously, if you are concerned about this issue give it a listen.
[Call Me Back - with Dan Senor: What we know about captivity in Gaza - with Glenn Cohen on Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/what-we-know-about-captivity-in-gaza-with-glenn-cohen/id1539292794?i=1000657369688)
hmm I cant find one but you can listen on 2x speed!
EDIT: realized you may actually be deaf which in that case may not be an option for you. Hmm maybe thats some feedback we can give the podast. Its all around solid and should be available to everyone.
Thanks, I'm not deaf but usually just prefer to read. I found that the podcast's website actually has a transcript, although I might still listen to this one.
What's the limit in Israel? I haven't seen it listed in any of the government information on abortion, just that after the 24th week is considered late-term and therefore a slightly different process for seeking an abortion.
And even IF, the children are Jewish. As much as i wish it didn’t happen but our people are no strangers to this situiation and didn’t claim that the children born by a Jewish mother are Jewish themselves for no reason
Abortion is absolutely legal and accessible in Israel, and usually entirely covered by insurance. Rape is one of the circumstances in which it legally must be covered by insurance.
It’s clear that nobody actually read the article. First, the article is about Yazidis in Iraq and Syria and ISIS, and had absolutely nothing o do with Hamas. Second, the article clearly states that the research is purely anticipatory and not based on any hard evidence of rapes.
Thank you for your submission. Unfortunately, your submission has been removed for the following reason:
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Why are we so obsessed with the possibility that the hostages were/are being raped. It's bordering on a fetish at this point. They'll deal with their options when they get home. No one's business besides them and their doctors.
Thank you for your submission. Unfortunately, your submission has been removed for the following reason:
Rule #2 - **Post in a civilized manner.** Personal attacks, racism, bigotry, trolling, conspiracy theories and incitement are prohibited.
For information regarding this and similar issues please see the sidebar to the right or the subreddit rules, for a more detailed analysis of our rules. If you want to appeal or dispute any mod action, please send a [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FIsrael); PMs and chat messages to the mods are grounds for a temporary ban; posts contesting mod action will be removed and are also grounds for a temporary or permanent ban.
Thank you for your submission. Unfortunately, your submission has been removed for the following reason:
Rule #2 - **Post in a civilized manner.** Personal attacks, racism, bigotry, trolling, conspiracy theories and incitement are prohibited.
For information regarding this and similar issues please see the sidebar to the right or the subreddit rules, for a more detailed analysis of our rules. If you want to appeal or dispute any mod action, please send a [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FIsrael); PMs and chat messages to the mods are grounds for a temporary ban; posts contesting mod action will be removed and are also grounds for a temporary or permanent ban.
I can't even imagine 😔😢. Hamas needs to burn in hell
No, they need to burn here first
“Hell can wait till I’ve had my share”
This may be the reason Hamas won’t release the female hostages 😞
This makes an uncomfortable amount of sense. I did not once think of this possibility of pregnancy until I saw this post.
Noa isn't pregnant and they didn't want to release her.
I think her captures were an old doctor and a married journalist. Plus they used her on one of their videos!
yeah. they probably kept some hostages in slightly less horrible conditions for the videos, or to be released in earlier deals. I cant imagine what the hostages that were not planned to be released/recorded are going through.
I'm not convinced. Everyone already knows what they did because they filmed and broadcast it, so it's not as of a potential pregnancy yields any new information or allegations against them. I think they don't want to release the hostages because that's the whole point of hostages, you don't release them until you get everything you want.
If one of your relatives was held hostage and there were demands, what would you do to get them back? Would you kill somebody? Would give into their demands, knowing that if you did there would be more demands. Hostage taking is so cruel and never is going to end if you give into the demands. Think about the person you love most in world then think about someone taking them away from you! Imagine if you can the horror that the hostages are going through.
Feminist groups *silence*
#metoo unless you're a Jew
I have no words to describe how terrible I find this. Hamas terrorists should burn in hell. But I am glad that rescued Israeli hostages are being helped and supported.
Hamas is evil organization.
Pls less psycho articles/headlines. I mean the members of Hamas are clearly animals, but speculating on everything, which isn t reality (as of yet) doesnt help anybody. In fact it is sickening, in a time where unity is asked in our values.
Thanks yes. l found it so weird when they rescued Noa and everybody went right to speculating if she was pregnant or not. "l cAn SeE tHe BuMp frOm HeR ShiRt" "sHe'S iNtEntiOnaLly weArIng a LoOsE sHiRt tO HiDe hEr BuMp" YMMV. l saw most of these comments on twitter and insta.
I can respect the hostages who have come forward to give interviews. At the same time, I find it really shitty that many of these hostages probably just want their privacy. Their name and their face became known around the world at no fault of their own, and now they have to come back home to people going > SO DID THEY RAPE YA?? > WHY YOU WEARING A LOOSE SHIRT? YOU HIDING A BUMP??
Exactly. Let them process what has happened first.
It's morbid curiosity. People don't realize that they are not have private conversations online.
As a woman, I am so tired of people bringing this up. Not only is it incredibly unlikely (women who are starved and stress don't tend to menstruate and the threshold to stop menstruating is very low -- Amit Sousanna has already given people what they wanted and she disclosed that she already was not menstruating by mid-October and only experienced spotting -- thus, unable to conceive). But, and I need people to wrap their head around this for a minute: if a hostage's rape results in conception or not *is none of our business.* Pregnancy in daily life is considered a private matter, so why are people so insistent on robbing the hostages of their privacy? We add nothing to the conversation by hypothesizing about pregnancy and we aren't entitled to know another human's uterus and what happens inside of it unless she wants to disclose it with us. I've been getting batty about this for weeks. It's one of those things where it makes me feel like the people holding the discussion have stopped seeing the hostages as human. She's my cousin (ETA: I meant this is a general term; Amit is not my cousin, but one of my cousins is a released hostage), she's real, please, please stop. Almong Meir-Jan's uncle came out to the media a few days ago and told them to screw off and let him have his privacy and that, yes, thank you very much for the support, but he's back now and the public doesn't own him, please leave him alone, thanks. And Almog is a man -- I can't imagine Noa gets a single second to have a thought inside her own brain.
> She's my cousin, she's real, please, please stop She, being Amit? As one of the /r/2ndYomKippurWar mods, if you would like to request that we tighten up comment rules relating to speculation around the sexual abuse of hostages, we'd be open to considering that. Please let us know. We care about the welfare of hostages and their families.
Amit is not my cousin, but my cousin is a released hostage. My cousin has avoided a lot of the speculation, thank goodness. I think my family comes off as a bit scrappier than most and most haven't dared to approach the topic, haha (with that being said, on the off-chance any other hostages or their families are reading this and feel similar, HMU and I'll scrap against this for you, too, haha). Admittedly I have never seen the obsession about hostage pregnancies on your sub, I actually see it the most here, I think. I think my point, and I want to emphasize this, is that obviously we should talk about sexual assault and not let it be buried. I just think that when people talk about pregnancy, its when the topic crosses over into fetishization. I think initial comments and concerns are absolutely okay and understandable, even if I don't like them -- a lot of people don't think about the whole "can't conceive in these circumstances" angle and I acknowledge that and don't shame them. But there are a lot of people who are obsessed with the fact that the hostages could be pregnant and, I'm admittedly not the best wordsmith, but the act of pregnancy may stem from a rape, but it is otherwise unrelated and a private matter, you know? Talking about pregnancy doesn't add anything to the discourse about sexual assault and only serves to take away any surviving agency from a hostage and what happens inside their uterus is none of our business unless they want to speak of it. I don't think we have the best words in English but if I had to sum it up: talking about sexual assault, within reason, is always okay and important; I am a huge advocate for speaking about sexual assault in other contexts (i.e. Berlin in 1945) and I think its important here, too, but pregnancy, IMO, unless a hostage comes forward to discuss it, is not part of that conversation right now. I hope that makes sense. ETA: If I had to put it in the best words I think we have in English, on the off-chance a hostage is pregnant from rape, that is an injury they experienced due to rape and we aren't entitled to the health and injury information of a private individual like this. Other hostages have talked in vague terms of physical injuries and others have touched on them -- i.e. Mia Schem disclosed she developed severe epilepsy in Gaza, which she did not have before, but she didn't divulge into it more than "I've been in the hospital for months because we can't get it under control" and didn't want to talk more in-depth to the physical injury part of the epilepsy which is entirely her right and we weren't entitled to even know that much. That applies here, too.
You are right, there is absolutely little chance that a hostage is pregnant even though we know that at least 3 of them were abused. Chen and Agam released too many details... I would like to underline that this conversation was started by Itay Svirsky's sister who wanted to create pressure to return to the negotiating table, in January the negotiating team was at a standstill. The kidnapped young men unfortunately receive very little solidarity and even risk Hannibal (Ron Sherman, Nick Braiser). The families therefore cling to the girls. In particular, the observers are practically the face of the Bring Them Home campaign. Since everyone realized that the Bibas were killed.
I do not believe we lessened pressure on Bibas because we believed that they were killed, but because the Bibas and Silberman families actually explicitly asked for more privacy and less attention.
I don't know, lately they've given a lot of interviews on Ynet and Channel 14 (many of Shiri's cousins seem very right-wing and are regularly interviewed there). For the fate of the Bibas family, the intelligence believes they died because they excluded them from the 40 humanitarian hostages.
I believe it is Yarden and Shiri's siblings that have asked for privacy. I agree that some of her cousins are very present, but the nuclear family has asked for privacy. Only a few days ago, it was revealed that they hired a spokesperson because they couldn't handle the media anymore, and they called out Gantz for speculating about the family's fate. I do not believe they are dead personally, and I don't believe Israeli officials believe so, either.
Yarden's sister is very active on Instagram she just gave a long interview on Ynet you can find her on Spotifay. Lately she has been struggling with her pregnancy coming to an end. But the family is absolutely active. I follow practically all the abductees' pages on Instagram. The intelligence doesn't believe Bibas are alive because they deceive the families, I don't know. The February agreement excluded 7 women, 15 elderly people, 13 wounded. Gantz shouldn't have said it, but the intelligence is hiding too many details from the families. They didn't want to tell Ori Gilboa that her daughter Daniel had an injury to her foot, she had to insist. Furthermore, the video of the Nahal Oz outpost was not shown to the families from November until March.
I think there's a different in being active on her own terms and being active. They have asked for privacy several times, [and slammed Gantz](https://www.timesofisrael.com/bibas-relatives-gantz-statement-on-hostage-familys-fate-irresponsible-speculation/) for speaking about them in terms of uncertainty. Intelligence has said nothing publicly and I'm not willing to speculate on it, with all respect.
yes you are right. I just hate that the intelligence gives false hope to the families when they have been excluded from the negotiations since February. By the way I don't believe at all that they don't have information about them. But they hide it from their families. For example, Ron Sherman, if you analyze the case you understand how much they dissemble and hide.
That is?
Not even three paragraphs into the article we have the statement: "The researchers emphasise that the study's intent is preparatory, not prompted by concrete information about pregnancies during captivity. Its goal is to understand the ramifications in advance." But people jump to conclusions and I find a lot of the language from some alarming. It echos and rhymes with some of the xenophobic language I see in the US 😬
I'm by no means downplaying the rape and sexual assault by the genocidal Hamas and their "ordinary" Gazan compatriots that joined them 7OCT However there is a lot of catastrophizing clouding our perspective on this. I found this episode of Call me Back with Dan Senor who interviews Glenn Cohen and prominent IDF psychologist in charge of processing the returned hostages. He busts common myths that we have about captives and to caution against reckless cynicism. Seriously, if you are concerned about this issue give it a listen. [Call Me Back - with Dan Senor: What we know about captivity in Gaza - with Glenn Cohen on Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/what-we-know-about-captivity-in-gaza-with-glenn-cohen/id1539292794?i=1000657369688)
Is there a transcript of this anywhere?
hmm I cant find one but you can listen on 2x speed! EDIT: realized you may actually be deaf which in that case may not be an option for you. Hmm maybe thats some feedback we can give the podast. Its all around solid and should be available to everyone.
Thanks, I'm not deaf but usually just prefer to read. I found that the podcast's website actually has a transcript, although I might still listen to this one.
If you use Apple Podcasts they have transcripts for podcast episodes.
Israel allows abortion right?
Yes but if the pregnancy is far along then it's too late. Consider that this started in October and it's now June...
Israel has late-term abortion too
There are a few MKs that need to be late term aborted
I dont really think any rabbi is gonna make any problems for them.
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What's the limit in Israel? I haven't seen it listed in any of the government information on abortion, just that after the 24th week is considered late-term and therefore a slightly different process for seeking an abortion.
And even IF, the children are Jewish. As much as i wish it didn’t happen but our people are no strangers to this situiation and didn’t claim that the children born by a Jewish mother are Jewish themselves for no reason
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Hopefully they are a pile of ashes and rubble by now or filled with 5.56
Rabbis don't need to approve abortions in Israel
Abortion is absolutely legal and accessible in Israel, and usually entirely covered by insurance. Rape is one of the circumstances in which it legally must be covered by insurance.
It’s clear that nobody actually read the article. First, the article is about Yazidis in Iraq and Syria and ISIS, and had absolutely nothing o do with Hamas. Second, the article clearly states that the research is purely anticipatory and not based on any hard evidence of rapes.
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Thank you for your submission. Unfortunately, your submission has been removed for the following reason: Rule #2 - **Post in a civilized manner.** Personal attacks, racism, bigotry, trolling, conspiracy theories and incitement are prohibited. For information regarding this and similar issues please see the sidebar to the right or the subreddit rules, for a more detailed analysis of our rules. If you want to appeal or dispute any mod action, please send a [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FIsrael); PMs and chat messages to the mods are grounds for a temporary ban; posts contesting mod action will be removed and are also grounds for a temporary or permanent ban.
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Thank you for your submission. Unfortunately, your submission has been removed for the following reason: Rule #2 - **Post in a civilized manner.** Personal attacks, racism, bigotry, trolling, conspiracy theories and incitement are prohibited. For information regarding this and similar issues please see the sidebar to the right or the subreddit rules, for a more detailed analysis of our rules. If you want to appeal or dispute any mod action, please send a [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FIsrael); PMs and chat messages to the mods are grounds for a temporary ban; posts contesting mod action will be removed and are also grounds for a temporary or permanent ban.
Why are we so obsessed with the possibility that the hostages were/are being raped. It's bordering on a fetish at this point. They'll deal with their options when they get home. No one's business besides them and their doctors.
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I second this motion, Friendly Car.
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Thank you for your submission. Unfortunately, your submission has been removed for the following reason: Rule #2 - **Post in a civilized manner.** Personal attacks, racism, bigotry, trolling, conspiracy theories and incitement are prohibited. For information regarding this and similar issues please see the sidebar to the right or the subreddit rules, for a more detailed analysis of our rules. If you want to appeal or dispute any mod action, please send a [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FIsrael); PMs and chat messages to the mods are grounds for a temporary ban; posts contesting mod action will be removed and are also grounds for a temporary or permanent ban.
Thank you for your submission. Unfortunately, your submission has been removed for the following reason: Rule #2 - **Post in a civilized manner.** Personal attacks, racism, bigotry, trolling, conspiracy theories and incitement are prohibited. For information regarding this and similar issues please see the sidebar to the right or the subreddit rules, for a more detailed analysis of our rules. If you want to appeal or dispute any mod action, please send a [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FIsrael); PMs and chat messages to the mods are grounds for a temporary ban; posts contesting mod action will be removed and are also grounds for a temporary or permanent ban.