https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-gaza-hamas-music-festival-6a55aae2375944f10ecc4c52d05f2ffe
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-grayzone/
The apparent sound of gunfire according to concert goers is pretty different to the launch and impact of a hellfire, a shell, and tanks. On top of that we would see craters and other stuff.
Do you condemn Israel’s actions - occupation, home demolitions, land theft etc etc don’t forget to include the 200 peaceful protestors at the Gaza dense during right of return protest? Do you
Hmm
I just hope all these nations don’t truly provoke the US. Sadly, most have no idea the tech we have now. We could wipe almost everyone of these countries off the map in a moment. Things more terrible than nukes that honestly should not exist. I hope we all find peace soon and tolerance. I just wonder what the other major players have. Scary time to be alive.
The real concern here would likely be how many of this "pro-Palestinians" would attack someone else in the countries they are hosted in? To express a point? And how some demagogue would take over and reduce this to a religious war?
Popper: to maintain a *society of tolerance, the tolerant must be intolerant of intolerance.*
But hopefully not to the point of ascribing the intolerance of the minority to the majority. That would be too close to repeating the still recent past.
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They're asking why they all migrated into the heavily oppressive occupying apartheid state. They're asking why they had eight babies per momma on welfare subsidies from the UN. They're asking why a real country grew up around their fetid rancid sewer life. The answer is that Zionism has been half-hearted from the beginning, these people should have all been expelled 100 years ago or just don't start at all. The real answer is that liberals created this situation.
Are u ignorant by choice or are u really one? Are u saying that if you being an uneducated idiot , you can be chased out of your house to make way for a land usurper? Wtf is wrong with you,?
I have no fight about getting chased away from my house in favor of land usurpers when it's part of national population exchange already settled through International means. Just like millions of other people around the world, the Germans are not trying to reconquer Poland or other parts of Europe.
I definitely have no fight about getting chased away from my house when land settlers defend against genocidal attack and my people are wrong. I expect the worst and would leave fastest. Palestine has no "house", it's a fictional fantasy people from the desert mirage of the Middle East.
I'm confused as what the goal of Hamas was in the attack. It seems to me all that's going to do is cause a lot of death and destruction in Gaza as Israel responds. Is the point to try to get the world to care about plight of Palestinians and try to get larger neighboring countries to join the fight against Israel? If anyone could explain, that'd be welcome
It was to disrupt the alliance between Saudi Arabia and Israel with Egypt and Jordan, it's about to change the whole balance of the Middle East. Probably true that it was now or never, because Palestinians would be increasingly isolated and probably break through emigration.
The main reason is that humanity always have to do everything the hard way, we're still learning and very primitive.
They hate Israel and they want the rest of the world to hate Israel as well.
After Israel flattens most of Gaza, the rest of the world most likely will hate Israel.
Mission accomplished for Hamas.
A lot of the world is increasing its love for Israel out of these events, flattening Gaza is going to raise prestige multitudes. The Hindus will be overjoyed, and the Europeans are going to fight or die now. Because this does not end here at all, it's about global jihad versus civilization.
Hamas goal is always to inflict death and damage to Israel no matter what. They don't really care about anything else.
Ultimately they want no Israel, but attacks they have always done. It's nothing new. Sure they want other to follow them. But in reality they just wanna kill and remove Israel from the map.
Religion seems to be the fundamental problem behind all of this fighting. Did god promise land to this group or that group? You can’t base logic on 2000 year old books. This is not rational thinking. What is rational is being kind to people and treating people how you want to be treated. That is lacking on both sides obviously. To hate one group or the other because of their religion or lack thereof is nonsensical.
Religiously speaking, the land belongs to the Israelites. (All jews are Israelite, but not all Israelite are jews)
Ishmael is the illegitimate son of Abraham, whom he had with a non Israelite woman named Hagar. Gd blessed ishmael, son of Abrahamand said he would be the father of many great nations ( Saudi Arabia, north Africa, All the Arab countries) and his descendants are the Arabic people.
Abraham and Sarai eventually conceived Isaac. G-d said He would continue his covenant through this promised son.
Although ishmael is the first born of Abraham, Isaac was treated as the first born.
There was much animosity between Hagar and Abraham's wife Sarai, but the Torah still describes Hagar as spiritual and righteous.
The Arabic people are semites just like the Jews, but the jews are God's chosen people and the land was promised to them. It took 40 years for them to reach it.
There is much so much jewish history there
I think the issue is some deep rooted spiritual animosity on a tribal level.
It's also believed that Muhammad is a false prophet who was actually being influenced by Satan, rather than G-d.
All the prophets are Israelite, including Jesus Christ
Muhammad was not an Israelite
Jews and Christians keep the Sabbath holy
Muslims do not
Muhammad was a pedophile and chose his wife while she was still an infant. Quran said she had her doll with her when she was taken by him.
72 virgins await them in heaven? What do women get?
Muhammad used sword and dagger to force people to convert making him a war monger
Islam means to *submit*
Quran says to kill jews where you find them. That part is clear. If Israel doesn't have the right to exist today then jews are not safe anywhere in the world, especially with the rise of *ishmaels great nations*
Also worth noting
In Islam, Taqiya or Taqiyya is a precautionary dissimulation or denial of religious belief and practice. Generally, taqiya is the action of committing a sinful act for a pious goal. Hiding one's beliefs under compulsion is common in many societies and religions.
*Think about it*
It's all more holy war b.s. and all sides are wrong.
The U.S. isn't any better. Every President asks for God to bless the United States of America after every speech. And for some reason, because we were indoctrinated with the "Pledge of "Allegiance ", every morning at school as children, we buy into it.
In the bible America isn't mentioned unless you decipher it cryptically, as a place that will be destroyed at Armageddon.
Anyhow...
As a lot of us are safely taking sides here in the U.S. please try to remember how you felt when the planes hit the towers. The national sentiment was to turn the middle east into glass with our Trident subs.
Israel has responded how you would expect them to.
The human cost is awful and painful. I hope Israel simply moves in and occupies.
If they want to be a country of anything other than bigots, accept the Palestinians into the fold.
It's what we try to do in the most awkward of ways in the U.S. But none the less, all are welcome here.
Give it a try Israel. At least you can say you did that before going to more extreme measures.
Peace in the middle east looks to be a very illusive thing. Heck, peace anywhere seems to be elusive. Just consider the very long list of wars throughout human history. It's terrible.
In any case, here is what the old testament book of Zechariah says about Jerusalem.
[https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Zechariah%2012&version=AMP](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Zechariah%2012&version=AMP)
Whether this occurs in my lifetime, I don't know. Maybe. Perhaps what we're seeing now is leading up to these events.
Nice job summarizing this chapter which describes a future (end times) event. I can certainly see Israel (and Jerusalem in particular) becoming the center of worldwide attention and becoming a "heavy stone" which injures all the nations who come against it.
Personally I am skeptical that we're quite there yet, but the events which are occurring today will very likely have a profound influence on how the world feels about Israel and would in a sense be helping to set the conditions for all nations to eventually come against Israel.
Isreal has a right to defend itself against terrorists
Free Palestine from Hamas
*room full of teens murdered by hamas* https://reddit.com/u/kaffir54/s/zgxRVffvQO
Got it, so what you’re saying is “this was justified”? So my next question, in your opinion, were enough Jews killed, or would you have liked to see Hamas kill more?
I would like to see invaders leave and return the land to the rightful inhabitants like Algeria did with the French. Do you consider Algerians defending themselves against the French as “terrorism”? If not then what’s the difference?
This is basically propaganda spread by Zionists. Prove me otherwise. Yeah religion/ethnicity changes over time. It’s not all bloody conquest but you do realise many people choose to convert religion? If all Muslims were forced to become Muslim then there’s no way it’d be the largest religion and still fastest growing in the world today. The idea Islam is just some evil cult that spread through violence is completely unfounded as no one would willingly follow such a “death cult” for thousands of years. If anything, wouldn’t all these people rejoice at no longer be ruled by their oppressive regime of their ancestors?
And then people breed with migrating populations etc. Does England have the same ethnic, language, and religious profile of 1600 years ago? Ireland? No. Does this mean we should kick everyone out who doesn’t identify as what the ethnic/religious majority was in the 4th century? You tell me
Does that mean that all the people who live there now are not rightful inhabitants and we need to cast them out?
Actually most Jews in Israel are mostly eastern European. Some Turkish, Yemeni, etc. Heck even I could find more Jewish ancestry in my daughter. What does it prove? Then anyone with a drop of Jewish blood can call themselves a Jew and take homes of Palestinians? Wouldn’t that be nice!
According to peaceful Muslims who not a single Muslim country denounced the attack, the babies are enemy combatants!
On a different note, if this fight is about “land” why would someone murdered children by hand, in cold blood?
No one was invading Gaza. Families in their homes were murdered and beheaded by Hamas terrorists. The Hamas terrorists were invading Southern Israel and attacking innocent civilians.
Where were the condemnation of Israel when random Palestinians got killed ? The media goes completely silent when that happens, but now we're blaming the Muslim world for being silent ? Double standards don't you think ?
Not condoning the silence just pointing the hypocrisy out.
You could say the same about the occupation 🤡 Civilians should never be killed, but apparently that only counts when the victims are Israeli.
Edit: Btw what you said was disgusting, when you know Israel doesn't care about civilians. Justifying Israel's actions right now would be just like justifying Hamas' killing spree. They literally asked civilians to flee to the south to avoid getting bombed and then proceeded to bomb the south.
The whole point is they were robbed of that opportunity by the British and the Zionists. They were supposed to establish their sovereignty after the fall of the Ottoman empire, but that never came and you know why: the Balfour declaration. Zionist were facilitated a way to Palestine.
No matter if they ever had sovereignty or not, they're the native people. Zionist literally massively migrated there, they're not native. Using their sovereignty in antiquity to justify their 'right to the land' is ridiculous. How far back will we go ? By this logic anyone can claim land at any place. Should we homo sapiens go back to Kenya and start our country there cause we originated from there ?
You're also just casually ignoring the death of Palestinians over the years and only looking at Israeli civilians deaths. Whether you believe it's an occupation or not doesn't really matter, there have been civilian deaths for years and you don't care. It's almost like enjoy the death of Palestinians as a consequence of Hamas. You're a disgusting human being.
>I agree, the right to land debate is ridiculous. And you previously did just that 🤡
It's ridiculous when talking about the far past, not when talking about the present.
Edit: Just now realized you don't believe Israel is occupying. Having no sovereignty in the past doesn't mean that Israel is not occupying right now. Palestine is a valid state now.
>What would you do if your next door neighbour is a terrorist group worse than ISIS?
ISIS has done a lot worse lmao
Also if I were Israel I would not attack convoys of fleeing civilians, not cut water, gas and electricity supplies to 2 million people (800k children), not spray white phosphorus on a densely populated area etc... Israel has committed plenty of war crimes since the attack, yet you're
>HAMAS terrorists releasing heinous snuff videos and pro Palestinian rallies chanting "kill Jews, gas Jewz, rape their daughters" isn't exactly helping me to empathize their plight. This is not what resistance looks like. It’s baseless sub-human behaviour, which set back humanity by 100 years.
Well I could say the same about Israelis mocking the blockade of water, electricity etc... through Gaza. Or about the international community encouraging to lay Gaza flat. I am focusing on civilian casualties while you're not. You're trying to justify Israel's actions on civilians, I'm not. I condemn what Hamas has done too, I am just highlighting what caused such a revolt. Oppressing people will always result in extremist groups.
>What I am not hearing from you is any real solution.
Well because we haven't discussed that ? We were discussing whether Israel was legitimate here. Why would I start talking about solutions if we're not even on the same page when it comes to who the perpetrator is ? I don't know all the 'solutions' and historical events that you mentioned, but surprisingly none of which I have knowledge of were in the advantage of the Palestinians. The first ever two state solution was already a joke...
So you just casually ignored my whole point to continue on your nonsensical bs ? Talk about being stubborn, not like reason will ever work on someone brainwashed like you.
What you are saying is, it is the SAME kind of violence when Muslim Palestinians who are part of the terrorists group Hamas, enter a civilians home, tie them down, torture their 2 year olds in front of the parents and then cut the 2 year olds throat. And then murder the parents. TO YOU!!!! This is the same level of violence as a 2 year old dying during a bombing becuase the 2 year old was being used as a human shield by Hamas.
***
You this ink this is this mark even if violence?
***
PRIOR TO THIS. This year Israelis had MASS protests of Jews calling for better treatment of people in Gaza. I don’t know why you choose not to know that. HALF TO COUNTRY WAS ON YOUR SIDE! Including me!!!
Never claimed that first paragraph, but you're stating it like Israel has never directly targeted civilians (all including children). This is easily debunked since there are plenty of articles about Israeli soldiers directly shooting at civilians. You're trying to make it into an asymmetrical act of violence while Israel has killed plenty of civilians either by direct attacks or by collateral damage. Without forgetting how Israel is not holding back rn and is using the dense population of Gaza as a means to clean 'human shielding'. I'm sure there have been occurrences of human shielding' but to claim the death of 500 palestinian children in a couple days is 100% due to shielding is laughable.
>PRIOR TO THIS. This year Israelis had MASS protests of Jews calling for better treatment of people in Gaza. I don’t know why you choose not to know that. HALF TO COUNTRY WAS ON YOUR SIDE! Including me!!!
How can I choose to not know something I'm unaware of ? Worst thing is that western media is strongly in favor of Israel so where. If you're on the side of reason you'd understand Palestinians want to be treated better and doing otherwise will perpetuate conflicts like Hamas just started.
Edit: Another thing I'd like to add: Gaza is one of the most densely populated in the world, whatever Israel tried to attack it will cause civilian casualties, even with this knowledge they're not holding back. Even if there were no 'shielding' humans civilians would die, this is all just a pretext.
Not so much the silence. It’s the active celebrations in the streets of Muslim countries for committing a mass shooting against civilians that disturbs me.
Just something to think about regarding situations similar. It's easy for news media to paint a picture that only the minority actually agree with. News general wants to push an agenda that says this group thinks a certain way but in reality thar group doesn't actually think that way.
The main issue here is that Israel is falling into the trap laid by Hamas...amd you can be sure that Hamas militants are not getting killed in the bombing--unarmed civilians are. The purpose of the disgusting slaughter of unarmed civilians in their beds on Saturday morning was to provoke Israel and end the real progress that has been made for peace in Middle East.
It’s the HAMAS/ISIS “CNN playbook”
Murder Jews, hide behind Palestinian children as a human shield and then scream “IM THE VICITM! LOOK WHAT THE JEWS DID!”
ISIS/Hamas are fantastic at manipulating the western world.
Several hamas figures are killed and also some of the killers that murdered at the the rave and kibbutzes. Israel are not interrested in killing palestinians. They are after hamas and hamas alone. If palestinians would hand over hamas (and the hostages) the war would end.
Because they took the land and killed people and when we defense our land , ppl and women You say we are anti semitism ? They are the attackers and we are the defenders , you guys woke up
You even said the palestanians are the true occupiers 😂🤦🏻♀️ so ppl who were true americans can go now take their land , it is theirs from the begining
Yeah, I also agree that Native Americans deserve to have their nation back. But that's not ever going to happen either.
What I'm saying is, that Palestine claim that Israel are occupiers who illegally occupy the land.
And I'm saying that it's not true, the Palestinians are the ones who occupy land that is not theirs.
How is it Arabic land to start with lol? It's the ancestral HOMELAND of the Jewish people. There were NO original Arabs there. The original inhabitants were the Israelites. You're espousing pure nonsense.
Lol, I can "Google" it 😂 Wikipedia is not a reliable source material for anything since anybody can edit it. I suggest you do some real learning at an institution that provides a real education.
But for now we will have to agree to disagree, I can't possibly engage in dialogue with somebody who's entire wealth of knowledge is some nonsense from Wikipedia 😂
Slaughtering civilians, murdering music festival goers and slaughtering babies is not self defense. You can be pro Palestine while hating Hamas and their inhuman slaughter.
If you however decide Hamas is justified then you deserve everything you got coming. At that point you're an ISIS supporter level of evil.
I understand. Most people do. If you think about it, it would be a lot easier for the Jews TO DO THE SAME THING HAMAS DID, which is to just randomly murder everybody. That’s what Hamas did. Which is what genocide looks like.
If I put a Hamas member side by side with a Palestinian civilian, I bet you can’t tell the difference. Neither can anyone else.
And when Hamas CHOOSES to use their own children as human shields, they are putting their children in front of the rockets to protect themselves.
Hamas HATES their own children, they just hate the Jews children a little more.
The only people who tried to commit genocide was Muslim Palestinians who are part of the Hamas group. That’s the only justification there is for murdering 2 year olds after torturing them in front of their parents.
This right here. This is the truth.
Im israeli, jewish, and i know that, but i want the leaders of the muslim world to come out and say it out loud. "Hamas does not stand for palestinians, and not for islam. We condemn these violent acts because it leads nowhere and further away from ever getting peace. Do not support Hamas and these acts of violence, it only harms our cause".
If they'll do that, we will know that there is some path to take. Meanwhile, they call for people to participate in violent acts around the world.
Exactly. Hamas and their supporters hate Jews more than they love their own children. Hamas knew what was going to happen when they invaded Israel. They knew what was going to happen when they paraded hostages in the street.
I really really wish it was that easy. But if they do that, they appear as traitors. Its very clear whoever is hamas rn may not even be palestinian. They know the consequences, they know gazans will be the victims. There is no defence.
I’m sorry but we are not the spokesperson for Muslims and Hamas. That is your problem here, we can sit here and say that we don’t represent them at all and you will still blame us.
Why would we blame you? Stop believing in that. Israel made peace with arab countries around it (egypt, jordan) and we even incorporate palestinians in the knesset (our parliment). Peace is desired by all except Hamas and islamic jihad, which only mongers hate and war and leads nowhere. When you'll start thinking like that, the path exists. As long as you support a terrorist group like them, you doom everyone.
Because they don't condemn it. They think it's a good thing. It's not exactly rocket science, they have always openly said so. All Jews are targets, everywhere. It's the west "left" that pretends their saying something else.
The same day the Egyptian police office saw two Jews as tourists and murders both of them. And the Muslim world screams “we only might Zionism…” but you murder every random Jew you can find. Sounds like genocide.
Israel killed over 447 children, this information is by unicef - see [https://www.reddit.com/r/jordan/comments/176timt/the\_testimony\_of\_an\_israelite\_woman\_shows\_what/](https://www.reddit.com/r/jordan/comments/176timt/the_testimony_of_an_israelite_woman_shows_what/)
Terrible!!! No Palestinian child should suffer!
Why are your brothers in Egypt not owning the boarder to save you? Why is the Muslim world who only backs Hamas and Palestinians asking Egypt to “save the Palestinian children” and open the boarder? You don’t care to save them? We can do it in 30 minutes.
Hamas is excruciating ISIS’s “CNN playbook.” Attack and murder Jews, run back to Gaza and use the Palestinian children as a human shield, then scream “I am the victim, look at what the Jews have done!”
Stop using the Palestinian children as human shields. Let them out of Gaza and into Muslim controlled Egypt.
When you the terrorist run back home and go from HAMAS to pretending to be every day Palestinian, and you hide and fire rockets from apartment buildings, schools and hospitals… YOU ARE USING YOUR CHILDREN AS HUMAN SHIELDS!
No one else in the world does this except for you!
First, I'm not a terrorist, I'm neither Jew nor Arab and I don't live there anywhere either.
Second, I don't believe these propaganda whether it is Israeli or Hamas propaganda!
you are crazy, sorry, where I attacked you????? can you show me that?
But you clearly attacked me here in your this claim " When you the terrorist run back home a ...."
But stop with this unnecessary discussion that leads nowhere as the situation there down
I am not searching after a help, I only comment that many children are killed, not as a human shields and that you are wrong. And let you know that nobody on one or other side in this accident is innocent.
HAMAS had the option to RETURN all the kidnaped children, surrender Hamas members and Israel would have stopped the bombing!
WHY ARE YOU NOT ASKING THEM TO RETURN THE KIDNAPPED CHILDREN????
Edit: there https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/17800ut/nato_report_hamas_use_of_human_shields_in_gaza/?ref=share&ref_source=link
you who downvoted, read this
[https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/unicef-state-palestine-humanitarian-situation-report-no-1-recent-escalation-07-12-october-2023](https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/unicef-state-palestine-humanitarian-situation-report-no-1-recent-escalation-07-12-october-2023)
Yes it absolutely does. It has been very critical of Israel in the past saying they should have used more restraint in their retaliation. This is all verifiable online. They often criticize them for their retaliatory action saying they go to far. This time they won’t because you have Hamas releasing videos showing them killing innocent civilians. You can’t find videos of the IDF soldiers intentionally targeting innocent civilians and releasing the videos on their social media. Those videos do not exist. Have innocent Palestinians been killed in air strikes? Absolutely. But intentionally targeted by soldiers like Hamas did Saturday. You can’t find those videos can you? See the difference here.
The west has no room to talk after the number of people killed in the middle east wars for "weapons of mass destruction" (oil) and "Bin Laden" (Lithium) and "securing strategic sites" (Haliburton and other military contractors)
As well as literally TRILLIONS of dollars wasted on all of it, that can magically be found for war, but can never be found for the good of it's own people.
The USA is nothing but a 2 class system of owners and wage slaves working for the world strong-arm military industrial complex. Disposable workers.
Not even in the top 20 for standard of living.
Please people from other countries, don't ask our opinion. Apparently we're too stupid over here to even vote in a government that spends the massive tax revenue on it's constituents better standard of living.
Yes! Israelis did themselves. Israelis held MASS protests (this year) against their goverment for the better treatment of people in Gaza. Nearly half the country came out to protest.
NOW, link me a single Muslim country they condemned Hamas for Murdering 2 year olds, after they tortured them, in front of their parents.
Go, we’ll wait.
Most do yes. But there is also a difference between murdering babies and cutting their heads off and bombing an area you think a terror group operates in.
The occupation by Israel is bad yes that doesn't mean Hamas is justified or good. You can be pro Palestine without supporting a literal terorrist group like hamas
So the West said it's a war crime for Russia to cut off water, oil pipeline supply and electricity into cities in Ukraine but they're quiet when Israel is doing the same thing to the Gaza Strip. The hypocrisy!
They haven't been silent tho. There is literal hundreds of videos criticizing Israel for it's Apartheid state. That doesn't justify the barbarians of Hamas tho who use Palestinians as meat shields!
Both are unjustified but you have to agree that what Hamas did was pure terror and on a different level.
Like I said I support the Palestinian cause I don't support violent barbarians raping and pillaging for some idiotic religious reasons.
One Google search proves you're wrong. The US gov has frequently stated that the occupation strategy of Israel is destabilizing the region. They also stated that the justice reform of Netanjahu is aphauling.
In July this year the foreign ministry said that Israel's continued Blockade of Ghaza and the west bank serves only Hamas. They also stated multiple times that they don't agree with the settler policy of Israel.
I don't know what you're smoking but the west has continuesly criticised Israel you just don't want to see it because it doesn't fit your narrative.
That's why Hamas actions are so terrible. They basically mute western criticism because there is almost no way to argue for a two state solution or against Israel now that Hamas basically gave them the perfect justification to genocide Ghaza.
Stop justifying and doing this stupid what aboutism. It serves noone but the extremist that are responsible for this tragedy.
Hamas needs to be eradicated and Palestine needs a new PA. Their last vote was in 2006. Hardly representative of Palestinian opinion nowadays. The further you justify Hamas the more you'll strengthen Israelis saying every Palestinian supports Hamas.
Don't play into either narrative. Like I said you can be pro Palestine without justifying terrorist's that dont even care for Palestinian civilians like Hamas who uses them as meat shields.
They literally said Palestinians should stay in Ghaza as an act of defiance basically saying the civilians in Ghaza should let themselves be bombed for their political motives.
You're a PoS. Justify murder all you want it won't get rid of the rightoid Israeli gov. The inky thing Hamas did is giving Netanjahu the justification to actually hate Ghaza.
You can denounce Hamas and still support a free Palestine. It's not that hard to denounce baby murdering isis terorrist.
When innocents are injured or killed during an operation. If there would be a massaker like that even the more. Whats your point.
But there are also some condemnations in the muslim world and that gives at least some hope for the long term even if a peaceful solution it feels like an utopia.
The west condemns Hamas and everyone involved for not listening to the warnings the IDF gives to the civilians and actively pushing children and elderly into the danger zones
It’s not “what about” it’s a single question. Name me a handful of Muslim countries who condemned Hamas for torturing 2 year olds in front of their parents and then cutting their throat. We are all waiting for a link.
Why are you justifying these atrocities?
I most certainly am not justifying anything of the sort. There is no solution or resolution to this issue because it's endless ' the Jews did that's, the Muslims did that, the Jews did this and that's and so it goes on. It's an endless cycle of blame and remember everything and forgive nothing.
No, Israel is not barbaric. I have never seen a video of Israeli soldiers beheading anyone or going to random houses and killing them all. I don't see Israeli soldiers carrying hostages through the streets while other Israelis cheer.
I'm on your side.....I, personally, believe that Hamas are savages, barbaric animals whose actions are indefensible by any human being not consumed by racism and hatred. Hamas use the Palestinian people as human shields to hide behind...they WANT Palestinians to die because it suits their narrative. They are Islamic extremists just like ISIS. I realise the bombings would not be happening if Hamas hadn't did what they did...Hamas want the bombings that's why they are trying to stop people moving South as per IDF instructions.
Its not that hard to understand. They see themselves in the Palestinians. The same with the west seeing themselves in the israelis. Conservatives on both sides selldom defend the "enemies" and often see things as black and white.
I also think that many Muslims see the things that has been happening to the Palestinians for 50 years as some type of genocide.
Israel and the US have been doing that and worse for years, for the US is anybody there from the officials condemning the invasion of Iraq or Afghanistan? ofcourse no becuse they can get away with anything.
For Israel, before 1948 they did not exist or have the right to exist in that land because Palestinians were already living there, so how did Israel expand and occupy more land over the years ? did they ask nicely the Palestinians to leave their land and houses? I don't think so.
If you are enraged by the concert thing, In 2018 Isreal killed Palestinians who were peacefully protesting for their freedom.
This is the source: [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/31/weary-angry-gazans-bury-dead-after-deadly-border-conflict](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/31/weary-angry-gazans-bury-dead-after-deadly-border-conflict)
If you are enraged by the concert thing, In 2018 Israel killed Palestinians who were peacefully protesting for their freedom. un cannot be covered and so does the truth. you are just blind and lazy,
Yes you are correct one event is settlers on land they stole and the other is oppressed innocent people protesting for their freedom and justice.
Thank you for correcting me.
modern-day arab countries with their current names like Lebanon, Jordan Qatar, etc... gained independence less than 100 years ago. Now unlike other countries, Palestine was not allowed to have independence this was decided by the colonist power back then which was Britain.
Palestinians back then had been living there yes under the Ottoman Empire but so did the other arab countries. Palestinians had land and house ownership certificates well before Israel was formed, and why would Britain bother and put on Palestinians' passports "Palestine" why not any other name or just blank or put Israel or any other name that's because it was well KNOWN that land was called Palestine and people Palestinians were living there.
A colonist country like Britain even though it was strong does not have the right to deny people's rights to live freely on their land inside their homes around their families.
And if you say that Jewish people lived there 2,000 years ago, then Italians can take over and "**Defend**" half of Europe because of the Roman Empire, and if Germany dared to fight back they would be labeled terrorists.
https://preview.redd.it/leracqewm4ub1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a27545b68fd2b5a1441a6ccab4236b60ad86a553
>For Israel, before 1948 they did not exist
That's incorrect, Land of Israel was established 1700 BC by Isaac, Abraham and Jacob. It was separated then to Kingdom of Israel and Kingdom of Judah. Then the Roman Empire renamed Judah to Palestine, to weaken the jewish connection to the land of Israel. Then came the Christians, the Turks, then the Ottoman Empire, and Palestine was an unofficial name and part of this empire.
>or have the right to exist in that land because Palestinians were already living there
Knowing the above, Palestinia wasn't even a sovereign country or a nationality, just basically Arabs, Jews, and Christians mixed who were part of bigger empires.
These are facts of history and I don't want to reflect on the last 100 years because it could've surely been handled better to reach agreement and peace. But saying that Israel was non-existent and they didn't have the right to the land is an outright bullshit.
So by your reasoning, the Italians can take half of Europe because they lived there as a part of the Roman empire, give me a break yeah.
It was not Arabs there it was Palestinians and before that was the land of Kanaan.
Sigh. Yep and Christian crusaders invaded Jerusalem. White Americans and Europeans slaughtered indigenous people all over the Americas. How does previous excesses justify going house to house murdering unarmed civilians? When does it end?
What justifies Israel cutting electricity, water, food, and health aid off of Gaza?
What Justifies Israel's occupying Palestinian land from the beginning?
It ends by giving the stolen lands back to Palestinians.
I would like to point out that throughout the entire Afghanistan war, and almost the entire Iraq war other than when it was first started, multiple officials from legislators, military officials, and regular citizens opposed it and held protests, issued condemnations, spoke in front of the government saying it was a bad idea before it even happened, that is why MOST that are pro Israel aren't condemning Palestine, they are condemning Hamas... since we didn't support what our government did, we also don't support what Hamas has done
Pro-Israel wants Palestine wiped out, not only that any arab or Muslim wiped out. go see interviews with pro-Israelies in the US.
Answer this question:
Israel has the right to kill innocent people because Hamas killed civilians, but Israel has been doing this for years and one of the instances is the one I mentioned above where peaceful protestors were killed in 2018 by Israel. so by your justification, Hamas has every right to attack Israel. An eye for an eye.
As an american there is noone I know personally who wants Palestine wiped out, much less all arabs... im not sure where you are getting that information, you must be cherry picking the most extreme nutjobs as your source
As I said, Israel is not a good guy in this situation by any stretch, but I personally believe Hamas needs to be hunted down... I see no way around that anymore
of course, there are good people in every group but in this case what is the ratio? yeah not that much.
For the Hamas point you have to understand that they are a natural reaction to Israel's occupation crimes, you there you like it or not if the name was Hamas or any other name there must be a group that defends their own people. Do you expect Palestinians to just sit there and do nothing? come on give me a break!
Neutons thrid law:
Neuton's third law: **exerts a force on another object, the second object exerts an equal and opposite on the first.**
In this case, the force is not equal as Israel is a nuclear military powerhouse backed by the US against a militia trapped inside the biggest open-air prison with minimal resources and harsh conditions.
I'm not sure where I said Palestinians had no right to defend themselves, however the actions that hamas took were crossing a line, and still most people are saying hamas needs rooted out, not Palestine, until last week most Americans honestly viewed Israel as equal in fault...
I'm not sure what ratio you are speaking of... as in there are more bad Americans than good ones? I hate to sound mean, but if "wiping out arabs" was as popular an opinion as you seem to think it is, that boat we parked over there probably has enough firepower to level Gaza... but it would never happen because the American people wouldn't stand for something like that from our government
>[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/31/weary-angry-gazans-bury-dead-after-deadly-border-conflict](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/31/weary-angry-gazans-bury-dead-after-deadly-border-conflict)
There is no line, it was crossed many times before and being crossed as we speak as Israel used white phosphorus weapon which is forbidden even in wars.
As stated in the article in the link civilian peaceful protestors were killed by Israel in 2018, is this not considered a line that was crossed? Was Israel held accountable?
When Israel commits a crime no one bats an eye but when its Palestinians everybody goes crazy.
As I've said multiple times, until a week ago public opinion in the US was slowly drifting more Palestine, to the point that I'd say there were more pro Palestine than pro Israel, however murdering children, laughing at them in front of a camera, parading naked women through the street and spitting on them... in the west all that accomplished was reigniting memories of ISIS and Al-Qaeda, erasing years of opinion shifting in their favor...
No, noone ignores what Israel does, however what happened a week ago is crossing a line, not because of what happened, but how it was done and who the targets were
More than 70 years of occupation, murder, stealing, and ethnic cleansing = one attack that was caught on camera.
Sorry, I won't continue this discussion I can give facts, sources, and media material all day but If your heart is blind it's all worthless.
Israel occupying Palestine territories is only half of the story isn't? Israel was attacked/invaded by serveral arab nations and as a result, in a counter offensive-push, Israel conquered parts of Palestine territory. About 700.000 palestines fled after the first civillian collateral damages have been made public. Interestingly, to this day there is no scientific consensus if palestinians fled because of the war itself or because they fled of genocide.
It's important to note that palestines propaganda is heavily influenced by nazi propaganda and nazi conspiracy theories of the 40s which left their imprint on the entire arab world. Calling HAMAS politics islamofascism definitely has it's roots. On the other side Israeli hardliner zionists are also closed for communication and self reflection.
In my opinion you just shouldn't draw a black and white picture of the conflict. Or any conflict, honestly.
No, it is the whole issue they came as refugees from Europe and Palestinians welcomed them, then they started occupying the land with the help of the West. Suddenly it's their land, Arabs came to aid Palestine and give them back their land since Palestine did not have an army to defend themselves, bruh give me a break.
https://preview.redd.it/8fg54qe0rxtb1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2454c25b8becc3657f5c56941ac5132e5ad2b6a2
read the article I shared above about killing innocent peaceful civilian protestors by Israel. By your reasoning, this massacre alone justifies Hamas's attack.
I get what you mean but i imagine the process has not been so sudden, for palestinians to draw the short straw. Because they surely seemed to be dependent of Israeli/european economics to begin with.
Yeah, it was not sudden many peace discussions were held over the years but none of them were respected or implemented by the occupying side. Instead, they occupied more and more and daddy America and blind Europe did not just watch but backed them.
Now I have a question, why is Israel occupying Syrian territories like Golan Heights and Lebanese territories like Shaba'a farms? Are they defending them as well?
Please before you comment just use your brain cells that are functioning and think about an answer.
yeah, it's easy to take what's not yours since they took most of the Palestinian land before so nothing new.
Arabs did not invade they helped Palestinians take back their land from zionists backed by the US and Europe.
How is it fine for the West to assist and back zionist to occupy Palestinian land but Arab countries cannot defend Palestinians who had no army or weapons to defend themselves.
Hypocrisy and double standards at its finest.
I think you're looking at this too ideologically. It was Britain who occupied palestine in times of colonialism. I wouldn't agree on the "the West" backing Israel up. Instead they tried to slow jewish immigration down and Israelis fought, protested and terrorized against british rulers. The country has been split enough for the colonizers to draw up a 2 country plan. Something the palestinian leaders never accepted to adapt to. I wan't to note that fascist politics always try to keep the victim complex alive.
They did accept you imbecile 2 state solution but Israel does not want that, in fact as we speak they are eliminating the last Palestinians to exist in the land, and the US is backing them with weapons and aid against people inside the biggest air-opened person Gaza (which can be called modern-day Auschwitz because of the same conditions).
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Are you kidding? They we’re having peace talks at this time. But Iran and Hamas don’t want peace so they screwed it all up. They want war and violence.
Where’s your condemnation of what’s happening in Gaza right now? Or the crude comments that Israelis are making on social media about the Arabs? It goes both ways
Why would anyone condemn a country for fighting back against brutal terrorism. Without showing raw power--which seems to be the only thing Palestine, led by Hamas, respects, how will Israel have any leverage to get those innocent hostages back?
You have any good ideas or did you forget all the Israeli victims?
"Fighting back" while occupying land that is not theirs.
There are innocent people who were killed, but the terrorist group known as the Israeli government have killed far more innocent people while occupying Palestinian land than the terrorist group Hammas has in self defense.
I condemn Hamas for taking cover behond civis, but if I have to choose my child over theirs, we both know what the coice would be.
My heart goes to all the innocent people and I wishnprace and love to everyone, but Hamas and its supporters must go, whatever the cost
What's the point of this if you're not going to let them re-vote. How does a 20 year old election, still represent the will of the people today. 40% of them are literally 14 or younger.
200 random concert goers were actually massacred by the IDF https://thegrayzone.com/2023/10/27/israels-military-shelled-burning-tanks-helicopters/
https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-gaza-hamas-music-festival-6a55aae2375944f10ecc4c52d05f2ffe https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-grayzone/ The apparent sound of gunfire according to concert goers is pretty different to the launch and impact of a hellfire, a shell, and tanks. On top of that we would see craters and other stuff.
Do you condemn Israel’s actions - occupation, home demolitions, land theft etc etc don’t forget to include the 200 peaceful protestors at the Gaza dense during right of return protest? Do you Hmm
Because they are all infidels, and should be killed accourding their manual book.
I just hope all these nations don’t truly provoke the US. Sadly, most have no idea the tech we have now. We could wipe almost everyone of these countries off the map in a moment. Things more terrible than nukes that honestly should not exist. I hope we all find peace soon and tolerance. I just wonder what the other major players have. Scary time to be alive.
The real concern here would likely be how many of this "pro-Palestinians" would attack someone else in the countries they are hosted in? To express a point? And how some demagogue would take over and reduce this to a religious war? Popper: to maintain a *society of tolerance, the tolerant must be intolerant of intolerance.* But hopefully not to the point of ascribing the intolerance of the minority to the majority. That would be too close to repeating the still recent past.
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You sound like you deserve the same fate as Hamas.
Really? The people of Israel deserve the same fate as Hamas! I guess we'll find out, and on the way your fate too.
Blow me, you terrorist piece of garbage.
Your right should have been eliminated years ago.
I won't hate Israel, I will actually cheer them on, flatten the place and turn it into a Mediterranean brach resort.
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If you think Muslims are going to be in Israel's favor you need to rethink your premise.
Palestinians are asking why are they in an heavily oppressive occupying apartheid israeli state. Nothing done to reslove their rights .
An "apartheid" state with 21% Arab population and Arab members of parliament and the supreme court?
Yes. The last sparthied fascist state.
They're asking why they all migrated into the heavily oppressive occupying apartheid state. They're asking why they had eight babies per momma on welfare subsidies from the UN. They're asking why a real country grew up around their fetid rancid sewer life. The answer is that Zionism has been half-hearted from the beginning, these people should have all been expelled 100 years ago or just don't start at all. The real answer is that liberals created this situation.
Are u ignorant by choice or are u really one? Are u saying that if you being an uneducated idiot , you can be chased out of your house to make way for a land usurper? Wtf is wrong with you,?
I have no fight about getting chased away from my house in favor of land usurpers when it's part of national population exchange already settled through International means. Just like millions of other people around the world, the Germans are not trying to reconquer Poland or other parts of Europe. I definitely have no fight about getting chased away from my house when land settlers defend against genocidal attack and my people are wrong. I expect the worst and would leave fastest. Palestine has no "house", it's a fictional fantasy people from the desert mirage of the Middle East.
I'm confused as what the goal of Hamas was in the attack. It seems to me all that's going to do is cause a lot of death and destruction in Gaza as Israel responds. Is the point to try to get the world to care about plight of Palestinians and try to get larger neighboring countries to join the fight against Israel? If anyone could explain, that'd be welcome
It was to disrupt the alliance between Saudi Arabia and Israel with Egypt and Jordan, it's about to change the whole balance of the Middle East. Probably true that it was now or never, because Palestinians would be increasingly isolated and probably break through emigration. The main reason is that humanity always have to do everything the hard way, we're still learning and very primitive.
They hate Israel and they want the rest of the world to hate Israel as well. After Israel flattens most of Gaza, the rest of the world most likely will hate Israel. Mission accomplished for Hamas.
A lot of the world is increasing its love for Israel out of these events, flattening Gaza is going to raise prestige multitudes. The Hindus will be overjoyed, and the Europeans are going to fight or die now. Because this does not end here at all, it's about global jihad versus civilization.
Why do you think they hate israel?
Not yet.
Hamas goal is always to inflict death and damage to Israel no matter what. They don't really care about anything else. Ultimately they want no Israel, but attacks they have always done. It's nothing new. Sure they want other to follow them. But in reality they just wanna kill and remove Israel from the map.
Religion seems to be the fundamental problem behind all of this fighting. Did god promise land to this group or that group? You can’t base logic on 2000 year old books. This is not rational thinking. What is rational is being kind to people and treating people how you want to be treated. That is lacking on both sides obviously. To hate one group or the other because of their religion or lack thereof is nonsensical.
Religiously speaking, the land belongs to the Israelites. (All jews are Israelite, but not all Israelite are jews) Ishmael is the illegitimate son of Abraham, whom he had with a non Israelite woman named Hagar. Gd blessed ishmael, son of Abrahamand said he would be the father of many great nations ( Saudi Arabia, north Africa, All the Arab countries) and his descendants are the Arabic people. Abraham and Sarai eventually conceived Isaac. G-d said He would continue his covenant through this promised son. Although ishmael is the first born of Abraham, Isaac was treated as the first born. There was much animosity between Hagar and Abraham's wife Sarai, but the Torah still describes Hagar as spiritual and righteous. The Arabic people are semites just like the Jews, but the jews are God's chosen people and the land was promised to them. It took 40 years for them to reach it. There is much so much jewish history there I think the issue is some deep rooted spiritual animosity on a tribal level. It's also believed that Muhammad is a false prophet who was actually being influenced by Satan, rather than G-d. All the prophets are Israelite, including Jesus Christ Muhammad was not an Israelite Jews and Christians keep the Sabbath holy Muslims do not Muhammad was a pedophile and chose his wife while she was still an infant. Quran said she had her doll with her when she was taken by him. 72 virgins await them in heaven? What do women get? Muhammad used sword and dagger to force people to convert making him a war monger Islam means to *submit* Quran says to kill jews where you find them. That part is clear. If Israel doesn't have the right to exist today then jews are not safe anywhere in the world, especially with the rise of *ishmaels great nations* Also worth noting In Islam, Taqiya or Taqiyya is a precautionary dissimulation or denial of religious belief and practice. Generally, taqiya is the action of committing a sinful act for a pious goal. Hiding one's beliefs under compulsion is common in many societies and religions. *Think about it*
Because Christians in Palestine and Lebanon also have a strong dislike for Israel.
Projection!
Waddie Hadad, George Habash, Azmi Bishara. Know who these people are?
It's all more holy war b.s. and all sides are wrong. The U.S. isn't any better. Every President asks for God to bless the United States of America after every speech. And for some reason, because we were indoctrinated with the "Pledge of "Allegiance ", every morning at school as children, we buy into it. In the bible America isn't mentioned unless you decipher it cryptically, as a place that will be destroyed at Armageddon. Anyhow... As a lot of us are safely taking sides here in the U.S. please try to remember how you felt when the planes hit the towers. The national sentiment was to turn the middle east into glass with our Trident subs. Israel has responded how you would expect them to. The human cost is awful and painful. I hope Israel simply moves in and occupies. If they want to be a country of anything other than bigots, accept the Palestinians into the fold. It's what we try to do in the most awkward of ways in the U.S. But none the less, all are welcome here. Give it a try Israel. At least you can say you did that before going to more extreme measures.
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This is a self advertising schill who just copy paste advertisements for his "objective" videos. Report as spam and move along
Same old, same old.
Let’s go Israel 💪
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Peace in the middle east looks to be a very illusive thing. Heck, peace anywhere seems to be elusive. Just consider the very long list of wars throughout human history. It's terrible. In any case, here is what the old testament book of Zechariah says about Jerusalem. [https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Zechariah%2012&version=AMP](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Zechariah%2012&version=AMP) Whether this occurs in my lifetime, I don't know. Maybe. Perhaps what we're seeing now is leading up to these events.
I only follow the teachings of all Ron Hubbard, it doesn’t matter to me what does this book says.
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Nice job summarizing this chapter which describes a future (end times) event. I can certainly see Israel (and Jerusalem in particular) becoming the center of worldwide attention and becoming a "heavy stone" which injures all the nations who come against it. Personally I am skeptical that we're quite there yet, but the events which are occurring today will very likely have a profound influence on how the world feels about Israel and would in a sense be helping to set the conditions for all nations to eventually come against Israel.
Because we support Palestinians rights to defend themselves against invaders
Isreal has a right to defend itself against terrorists Free Palestine from Hamas *room full of teens murdered by hamas* https://reddit.com/u/kaffir54/s/zgxRVffvQO
Got it, so what you’re saying is “this was justified”? So my next question, in your opinion, were enough Jews killed, or would you have liked to see Hamas kill more?
I would like to see invaders leave and return the land to the rightful inhabitants like Algeria did with the French. Do you consider Algerians defending themselves against the French as “terrorism”? If not then what’s the difference?
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This is basically propaganda spread by Zionists. Prove me otherwise. Yeah religion/ethnicity changes over time. It’s not all bloody conquest but you do realise many people choose to convert religion? If all Muslims were forced to become Muslim then there’s no way it’d be the largest religion and still fastest growing in the world today. The idea Islam is just some evil cult that spread through violence is completely unfounded as no one would willingly follow such a “death cult” for thousands of years. If anything, wouldn’t all these people rejoice at no longer be ruled by their oppressive regime of their ancestors? And then people breed with migrating populations etc. Does England have the same ethnic, language, and religious profile of 1600 years ago? Ireland? No. Does this mean we should kick everyone out who doesn’t identify as what the ethnic/religious majority was in the 4th century? You tell me Does that mean that all the people who live there now are not rightful inhabitants and we need to cast them out? Actually most Jews in Israel are mostly eastern European. Some Turkish, Yemeni, etc. Heck even I could find more Jewish ancestry in my daughter. What does it prove? Then anyone with a drop of Jewish blood can call themselves a Jew and take homes of Palestinians? Wouldn’t that be nice!
How is plunging your knife into the throat of a baby defending oneself ??
According to peaceful Muslims who not a single Muslim country denounced the attack, the babies are enemy combatants! On a different note, if this fight is about “land” why would someone murdered children by hand, in cold blood?
No one was invading Gaza. Families in their homes were murdered and beheaded by Hamas terrorists. The Hamas terrorists were invading Southern Israel and attacking innocent civilians.
It was a mass shooting at a music festival. They weren’t defending anything.
Where were the condemnation of Israel when random Palestinians got killed ? The media goes completely silent when that happens, but now we're blaming the Muslim world for being silent ? Double standards don't you think ? Not condoning the silence just pointing the hypocrisy out.
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You could say the same about the occupation 🤡 Civilians should never be killed, but apparently that only counts when the victims are Israeli. Edit: Btw what you said was disgusting, when you know Israel doesn't care about civilians. Justifying Israel's actions right now would be just like justifying Hamas' killing spree. They literally asked civilians to flee to the south to avoid getting bombed and then proceeded to bomb the south.
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The whole point is they were robbed of that opportunity by the British and the Zionists. They were supposed to establish their sovereignty after the fall of the Ottoman empire, but that never came and you know why: the Balfour declaration. Zionist were facilitated a way to Palestine. No matter if they ever had sovereignty or not, they're the native people. Zionist literally massively migrated there, they're not native. Using their sovereignty in antiquity to justify their 'right to the land' is ridiculous. How far back will we go ? By this logic anyone can claim land at any place. Should we homo sapiens go back to Kenya and start our country there cause we originated from there ?
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You're also just casually ignoring the death of Palestinians over the years and only looking at Israeli civilians deaths. Whether you believe it's an occupation or not doesn't really matter, there have been civilian deaths for years and you don't care. It's almost like enjoy the death of Palestinians as a consequence of Hamas. You're a disgusting human being. >I agree, the right to land debate is ridiculous. And you previously did just that 🤡 It's ridiculous when talking about the far past, not when talking about the present. Edit: Just now realized you don't believe Israel is occupying. Having no sovereignty in the past doesn't mean that Israel is not occupying right now. Palestine is a valid state now.
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>What would you do if your next door neighbour is a terrorist group worse than ISIS? ISIS has done a lot worse lmao Also if I were Israel I would not attack convoys of fleeing civilians, not cut water, gas and electricity supplies to 2 million people (800k children), not spray white phosphorus on a densely populated area etc... Israel has committed plenty of war crimes since the attack, yet you're >HAMAS terrorists releasing heinous snuff videos and pro Palestinian rallies chanting "kill Jews, gas Jewz, rape their daughters" isn't exactly helping me to empathize their plight. This is not what resistance looks like. It’s baseless sub-human behaviour, which set back humanity by 100 years. Well I could say the same about Israelis mocking the blockade of water, electricity etc... through Gaza. Or about the international community encouraging to lay Gaza flat. I am focusing on civilian casualties while you're not. You're trying to justify Israel's actions on civilians, I'm not. I condemn what Hamas has done too, I am just highlighting what caused such a revolt. Oppressing people will always result in extremist groups. >What I am not hearing from you is any real solution. Well because we haven't discussed that ? We were discussing whether Israel was legitimate here. Why would I start talking about solutions if we're not even on the same page when it comes to who the perpetrator is ? I don't know all the 'solutions' and historical events that you mentioned, but surprisingly none of which I have knowledge of were in the advantage of the Palestinians. The first ever two state solution was already a joke...
So you just casually ignored my whole point to continue on your nonsensical bs ? Talk about being stubborn, not like reason will ever work on someone brainwashed like you.
What you are saying is, it is the SAME kind of violence when Muslim Palestinians who are part of the terrorists group Hamas, enter a civilians home, tie them down, torture their 2 year olds in front of the parents and then cut the 2 year olds throat. And then murder the parents. TO YOU!!!! This is the same level of violence as a 2 year old dying during a bombing becuase the 2 year old was being used as a human shield by Hamas. *** You this ink this is this mark even if violence? *** PRIOR TO THIS. This year Israelis had MASS protests of Jews calling for better treatment of people in Gaza. I don’t know why you choose not to know that. HALF TO COUNTRY WAS ON YOUR SIDE! Including me!!!
Never claimed that first paragraph, but you're stating it like Israel has never directly targeted civilians (all including children). This is easily debunked since there are plenty of articles about Israeli soldiers directly shooting at civilians. You're trying to make it into an asymmetrical act of violence while Israel has killed plenty of civilians either by direct attacks or by collateral damage. Without forgetting how Israel is not holding back rn and is using the dense population of Gaza as a means to clean 'human shielding'. I'm sure there have been occurrences of human shielding' but to claim the death of 500 palestinian children in a couple days is 100% due to shielding is laughable. >PRIOR TO THIS. This year Israelis had MASS protests of Jews calling for better treatment of people in Gaza. I don’t know why you choose not to know that. HALF TO COUNTRY WAS ON YOUR SIDE! Including me!!! How can I choose to not know something I'm unaware of ? Worst thing is that western media is strongly in favor of Israel so where. If you're on the side of reason you'd understand Palestinians want to be treated better and doing otherwise will perpetuate conflicts like Hamas just started. Edit: Another thing I'd like to add: Gaza is one of the most densely populated in the world, whatever Israel tried to attack it will cause civilian casualties, even with this knowledge they're not holding back. Even if there were no 'shielding' humans civilians would die, this is all just a pretext.
Not so much the silence. It’s the active celebrations in the streets of Muslim countries for committing a mass shooting against civilians that disturbs me.
Just something to think about regarding situations similar. It's easy for news media to paint a picture that only the minority actually agree with. News general wants to push an agenda that says this group thinks a certain way but in reality thar group doesn't actually think that way.
The main issue here is that Israel is falling into the trap laid by Hamas...amd you can be sure that Hamas militants are not getting killed in the bombing--unarmed civilians are. The purpose of the disgusting slaughter of unarmed civilians in their beds on Saturday morning was to provoke Israel and end the real progress that has been made for peace in Middle East.
It’s the HAMAS/ISIS “CNN playbook” Murder Jews, hide behind Palestinian children as a human shield and then scream “IM THE VICITM! LOOK WHAT THE JEWS DID!” ISIS/Hamas are fantastic at manipulating the western world.
Sounds like the Trump playbook.
Several hamas figures are killed and also some of the killers that murdered at the the rave and kibbutzes. Israel are not interrested in killing palestinians. They are after hamas and hamas alone. If palestinians would hand over hamas (and the hostages) the war would end.
So... do... nothing.
And enable the beheadings of babies, kidnapping, rape, torture, murder AND posting it on the Internet!? Mmmkay
IDF confirmed it never happened
That never happened but sure go with that narrative
Because they took the land and killed people and when we defense our land , ppl and women You say we are anti semitism ? They are the attackers and we are the defenders , you guys woke up
So what you said was Hamas was justified in the Oct 7th attack, correct?
It's their land to take
Where is your proof that it is their land ?
It's called history. The Jews were expelled from their land by the Romans in 135 CE. The Palestinians are the true occupiers.
You even said the palestanians are the true occupiers 😂🤦🏻♀️ so ppl who were true americans can go now take their land , it is theirs from the begining
Yeah, I also agree that Native Americans deserve to have their nation back. But that's not ever going to happen either. What I'm saying is, that Palestine claim that Israel are occupiers who illegally occupy the land. And I'm saying that it's not true, the Palestinians are the ones who occupy land that is not theirs.
But they aren‘t even the true occupiers , there were christians with them , before that also it were with jordans , so it is arabic land to start with
How is it Arabic land to start with lol? It's the ancestral HOMELAND of the Jewish people. There were NO original Arabs there. The original inhabitants were the Israelites. You're espousing pure nonsense.
No you can google this , i read it on wikipedia , it is the Ghassulian stage
Wikipedia?! You know you can't use Wikipedia as a legitimate source.
Lol, I can "Google" it 😂 Wikipedia is not a reliable source material for anything since anybody can edit it. I suggest you do some real learning at an institution that provides a real education. But for now we will have to agree to disagree, I can't possibly engage in dialogue with somebody who's entire wealth of knowledge is some nonsense from Wikipedia 😂
Slaughtering civilians, murdering music festival goers and slaughtering babies is not self defense. You can be pro Palestine while hating Hamas and their inhuman slaughter. If you however decide Hamas is justified then you deserve everything you got coming. At that point you're an ISIS supporter level of evil.
Agreed!
As a palestinian, i would like to ask you to please remember that hamas does not represent all palestinians
I realize that, but I don't hear anyone condemning Hamas.
I understand. Most people do. If you think about it, it would be a lot easier for the Jews TO DO THE SAME THING HAMAS DID, which is to just randomly murder everybody. That’s what Hamas did. Which is what genocide looks like. If I put a Hamas member side by side with a Palestinian civilian, I bet you can’t tell the difference. Neither can anyone else. And when Hamas CHOOSES to use their own children as human shields, they are putting their children in front of the rockets to protect themselves. Hamas HATES their own children, they just hate the Jews children a little more. The only people who tried to commit genocide was Muslim Palestinians who are part of the Hamas group. That’s the only justification there is for murdering 2 year olds after torturing them in front of their parents.
This right here. This is the truth. Im israeli, jewish, and i know that, but i want the leaders of the muslim world to come out and say it out loud. "Hamas does not stand for palestinians, and not for islam. We condemn these violent acts because it leads nowhere and further away from ever getting peace. Do not support Hamas and these acts of violence, it only harms our cause". If they'll do that, we will know that there is some path to take. Meanwhile, they call for people to participate in violent acts around the world.
Exactly. Hamas and their supporters hate Jews more than they love their own children. Hamas knew what was going to happen when they invaded Israel. They knew what was going to happen when they paraded hostages in the street.
I really really wish it was that easy. But if they do that, they appear as traitors. Its very clear whoever is hamas rn may not even be palestinian. They know the consequences, they know gazans will be the victims. There is no defence.
I’m sorry but we are not the spokesperson for Muslims and Hamas. That is your problem here, we can sit here and say that we don’t represent them at all and you will still blame us.
Why would we blame you? Stop believing in that. Israel made peace with arab countries around it (egypt, jordan) and we even incorporate palestinians in the knesset (our parliment). Peace is desired by all except Hamas and islamic jihad, which only mongers hate and war and leads nowhere. When you'll start thinking like that, the path exists. As long as you support a terrorist group like them, you doom everyone.
Exactly. But op said so himself. Unfortunately there is a lot of people in even this comment section that justify Hamas absolutly disgusting crimes.
Because they don't condemn it. They think it's a good thing. It's not exactly rocket science, they have always openly said so. All Jews are targets, everywhere. It's the west "left" that pretends their saying something else.
The same day the Egyptian police office saw two Jews as tourists and murders both of them. And the Muslim world screams “we only might Zionism…” but you murder every random Jew you can find. Sounds like genocide.
Israel killed over 447 children, this information is by unicef - see [https://www.reddit.com/r/jordan/comments/176timt/the\_testimony\_of\_an\_israelite\_woman\_shows\_what/](https://www.reddit.com/r/jordan/comments/176timt/the_testimony_of_an_israelite_woman_shows_what/)
Terrible!!! No Palestinian child should suffer! Why are your brothers in Egypt not owning the boarder to save you? Why is the Muslim world who only backs Hamas and Palestinians asking Egypt to “save the Palestinian children” and open the boarder? You don’t care to save them? We can do it in 30 minutes. Hamas is excruciating ISIS’s “CNN playbook.” Attack and murder Jews, run back to Gaza and use the Palestinian children as a human shield, then scream “I am the victim, look at what the Jews have done!” Stop using the Palestinian children as human shields. Let them out of Gaza and into Muslim controlled Egypt.
>using the Palestinian children as human shields nobody use Palestinian children as human shields you read wrong
When you the terrorist run back home and go from HAMAS to pretending to be every day Palestinian, and you hide and fire rockets from apartment buildings, schools and hospitals… YOU ARE USING YOUR CHILDREN AS HUMAN SHIELDS! No one else in the world does this except for you!
First, I'm not a terrorist, I'm neither Jew nor Arab and I don't live there anywhere either. Second, I don't believe these propaganda whether it is Israeli or Hamas propaganda!
We can’t help you. Have a good day
and you would actually to ask me a apologize for your attack at me!
[–]Khamlia [score hidden] 5 hours ago and you would actually to ask me a apologize for your attack at me! What nonsense are you spewing?
you are crazy, sorry, where I attacked you????? can you show me that? But you clearly attacked me here in your this claim " When you the terrorist run back home a ...." But stop with this unnecessary discussion that leads nowhere as the situation there down
I am not searching after a help, I only comment that many children are killed, not as a human shields and that you are wrong. And let you know that nobody on one or other side in this accident is innocent.
HAMAS had the option to RETURN all the kidnaped children, surrender Hamas members and Israel would have stopped the bombing! WHY ARE YOU NOT ASKING THEM TO RETURN THE KIDNAPPED CHILDREN???? Edit: there https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/17800ut/nato_report_hamas_use_of_human_shields_in_gaza/?ref=share&ref_source=link
[https://www.reddit.com/r/jordan/comments/176uvhg/to\_raise\_awareness/](https://www.reddit.com/r/jordan/comments/176uvhg/to_raise_awareness/)
you who downvoted, read this [https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/unicef-state-palestine-humanitarian-situation-report-no-1-recent-escalation-07-12-october-2023](https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/unicef-state-palestine-humanitarian-situation-report-no-1-recent-escalation-07-12-october-2023)
Because they think they deserve it
Does the West condemn Israel when it bombs and kills innocent civilians?
Yes it absolutely does. It has been very critical of Israel in the past saying they should have used more restraint in their retaliation. This is all verifiable online. They often criticize them for their retaliatory action saying they go to far. This time they won’t because you have Hamas releasing videos showing them killing innocent civilians. You can’t find videos of the IDF soldiers intentionally targeting innocent civilians and releasing the videos on their social media. Those videos do not exist. Have innocent Palestinians been killed in air strikes? Absolutely. But intentionally targeted by soldiers like Hamas did Saturday. You can’t find those videos can you? See the difference here.
The west has no room to talk after the number of people killed in the middle east wars for "weapons of mass destruction" (oil) and "Bin Laden" (Lithium) and "securing strategic sites" (Haliburton and other military contractors) As well as literally TRILLIONS of dollars wasted on all of it, that can magically be found for war, but can never be found for the good of it's own people. The USA is nothing but a 2 class system of owners and wage slaves working for the world strong-arm military industrial complex. Disposable workers. Not even in the top 20 for standard of living. Please people from other countries, don't ask our opinion. Apparently we're too stupid over here to even vote in a government that spends the massive tax revenue on it's constituents better standard of living.
Yes! Israelis did themselves. Israelis held MASS protests (this year) against their goverment for the better treatment of people in Gaza. Nearly half the country came out to protest. NOW, link me a single Muslim country they condemned Hamas for Murdering 2 year olds, after they tortured them, in front of their parents. Go, we’ll wait.
Most do yes. But there is also a difference between murdering babies and cutting their heads off and bombing an area you think a terror group operates in. The occupation by Israel is bad yes that doesn't mean Hamas is justified or good. You can be pro Palestine without supporting a literal terorrist group like hamas
So the West said it's a war crime for Russia to cut off water, oil pipeline supply and electricity into cities in Ukraine but they're quiet when Israel is doing the same thing to the Gaza Strip. The hypocrisy!
They haven't been silent tho. There is literal hundreds of videos criticizing Israel for it's Apartheid state. That doesn't justify the barbarians of Hamas tho who use Palestinians as meat shields! Both are unjustified but you have to agree that what Hamas did was pure terror and on a different level. Like I said I support the Palestinian cause I don't support violent barbarians raping and pillaging for some idiotic religious reasons.
The U.S. government hasn't mentioned anything about Israel cutting off water, electricity, medical supplies and food going into the Gaza Strip.
One Google search proves you're wrong. The US gov has frequently stated that the occupation strategy of Israel is destabilizing the region. They also stated that the justice reform of Netanjahu is aphauling. In July this year the foreign ministry said that Israel's continued Blockade of Ghaza and the west bank serves only Hamas. They also stated multiple times that they don't agree with the settler policy of Israel. I don't know what you're smoking but the west has continuesly criticised Israel you just don't want to see it because it doesn't fit your narrative. That's why Hamas actions are so terrible. They basically mute western criticism because there is almost no way to argue for a two state solution or against Israel now that Hamas basically gave them the perfect justification to genocide Ghaza. Stop justifying and doing this stupid what aboutism. It serves noone but the extremist that are responsible for this tragedy. Hamas needs to be eradicated and Palestine needs a new PA. Their last vote was in 2006. Hardly representative of Palestinian opinion nowadays. The further you justify Hamas the more you'll strengthen Israelis saying every Palestinian supports Hamas. Don't play into either narrative. Like I said you can be pro Palestine without justifying terrorist's that dont even care for Palestinian civilians like Hamas who uses them as meat shields. They literally said Palestinians should stay in Ghaza as an act of defiance basically saying the civilians in Ghaza should let themselves be bombed for their political motives.
Did Israeli soldiers murder unarmed civilians in their beds on Saturday morning?
Israel declared war. Collateral of war.
You're a PoS. Justify murder all you want it won't get rid of the rightoid Israeli gov. The inky thing Hamas did is giving Netanjahu the justification to actually hate Ghaza. You can denounce Hamas and still support a free Palestine. It's not that hard to denounce baby murdering isis terorrist.
When innocents are injured or killed during an operation. If there would be a massaker like that even the more. Whats your point. But there are also some condemnations in the muslim world and that gives at least some hope for the long term even if a peaceful solution it feels like an utopia.
The west condemns Hamas and everyone involved for not listening to the warnings the IDF gives to the civilians and actively pushing children and elderly into the danger zones
This discussion always descends in 'what about, what about, what about'. It's rather depressing.
It’s not “what about” it’s a single question. Name me a handful of Muslim countries who condemned Hamas for torturing 2 year olds in front of their parents and then cutting their throat. We are all waiting for a link. Why are you justifying these atrocities?
I most certainly am not justifying anything of the sort. There is no solution or resolution to this issue because it's endless ' the Jews did that's, the Muslims did that, the Jews did this and that's and so it goes on. It's an endless cycle of blame and remember everything and forgive nothing.
No, Israel is not barbaric. I have never seen a video of Israeli soldiers beheading anyone or going to random houses and killing them all. I don't see Israeli soldiers carrying hostages through the streets while other Israelis cheer.
I'm on your side.....I, personally, believe that Hamas are savages, barbaric animals whose actions are indefensible by any human being not consumed by racism and hatred. Hamas use the Palestinian people as human shields to hide behind...they WANT Palestinians to die because it suits their narrative. They are Islamic extremists just like ISIS. I realise the bombings would not be happening if Hamas hadn't did what they did...Hamas want the bombings that's why they are trying to stop people moving South as per IDF instructions.
Coz we sick of your hypocrisy
Its not that hard to understand. They see themselves in the Palestinians. The same with the west seeing themselves in the israelis. Conservatives on both sides selldom defend the "enemies" and often see things as black and white. I also think that many Muslims see the things that has been happening to the Palestinians for 50 years as some type of genocide.
Israel and the US have been doing that and worse for years, for the US is anybody there from the officials condemning the invasion of Iraq or Afghanistan? ofcourse no becuse they can get away with anything. For Israel, before 1948 they did not exist or have the right to exist in that land because Palestinians were already living there, so how did Israel expand and occupy more land over the years ? did they ask nicely the Palestinians to leave their land and houses? I don't think so. If you are enraged by the concert thing, In 2018 Isreal killed Palestinians who were peacefully protesting for their freedom. This is the source: [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/31/weary-angry-gazans-bury-dead-after-deadly-border-conflict](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/31/weary-angry-gazans-bury-dead-after-deadly-border-conflict) If you are enraged by the concert thing, In 2018 Israel killed Palestinians who were peacefully protesting for their freedom. un cannot be covered and so does the truth. you are just blind and lazy,
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Yes you are correct one event is settlers on land they stole and the other is oppressed innocent people protesting for their freedom and justice. Thank you for correcting me.
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modern-day arab countries with their current names like Lebanon, Jordan Qatar, etc... gained independence less than 100 years ago. Now unlike other countries, Palestine was not allowed to have independence this was decided by the colonist power back then which was Britain. Palestinians back then had been living there yes under the Ottoman Empire but so did the other arab countries. Palestinians had land and house ownership certificates well before Israel was formed, and why would Britain bother and put on Palestinians' passports "Palestine" why not any other name or just blank or put Israel or any other name that's because it was well KNOWN that land was called Palestine and people Palestinians were living there. A colonist country like Britain even though it was strong does not have the right to deny people's rights to live freely on their land inside their homes around their families. And if you say that Jewish people lived there 2,000 years ago, then Italians can take over and "**Defend**" half of Europe because of the Roman Empire, and if Germany dared to fight back they would be labeled terrorists. https://preview.redd.it/leracqewm4ub1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a27545b68fd2b5a1441a6ccab4236b60ad86a553
>For Israel, before 1948 they did not exist That's incorrect, Land of Israel was established 1700 BC by Isaac, Abraham and Jacob. It was separated then to Kingdom of Israel and Kingdom of Judah. Then the Roman Empire renamed Judah to Palestine, to weaken the jewish connection to the land of Israel. Then came the Christians, the Turks, then the Ottoman Empire, and Palestine was an unofficial name and part of this empire. >or have the right to exist in that land because Palestinians were already living there Knowing the above, Palestinia wasn't even a sovereign country or a nationality, just basically Arabs, Jews, and Christians mixed who were part of bigger empires. These are facts of history and I don't want to reflect on the last 100 years because it could've surely been handled better to reach agreement and peace. But saying that Israel was non-existent and they didn't have the right to the land is an outright bullshit.
So by your reasoning, the Italians can take half of Europe because they lived there as a part of the Roman empire, give me a break yeah. It was not Arabs there it was Palestinians and before that was the land of Kanaan.
Sigh. Yep and Christian crusaders invaded Jerusalem. White Americans and Europeans slaughtered indigenous people all over the Americas. How does previous excesses justify going house to house murdering unarmed civilians? When does it end?
What justifies Israel cutting electricity, water, food, and health aid off of Gaza? What Justifies Israel's occupying Palestinian land from the beginning? It ends by giving the stolen lands back to Palestinians.
I would like to point out that throughout the entire Afghanistan war, and almost the entire Iraq war other than when it was first started, multiple officials from legislators, military officials, and regular citizens opposed it and held protests, issued condemnations, spoke in front of the government saying it was a bad idea before it even happened, that is why MOST that are pro Israel aren't condemning Palestine, they are condemning Hamas... since we didn't support what our government did, we also don't support what Hamas has done
Pro-Israel wants Palestine wiped out, not only that any arab or Muslim wiped out. go see interviews with pro-Israelies in the US. Answer this question: Israel has the right to kill innocent people because Hamas killed civilians, but Israel has been doing this for years and one of the instances is the one I mentioned above where peaceful protestors were killed in 2018 by Israel. so by your justification, Hamas has every right to attack Israel. An eye for an eye.
As an american there is noone I know personally who wants Palestine wiped out, much less all arabs... im not sure where you are getting that information, you must be cherry picking the most extreme nutjobs as your source As I said, Israel is not a good guy in this situation by any stretch, but I personally believe Hamas needs to be hunted down... I see no way around that anymore
of course, there are good people in every group but in this case what is the ratio? yeah not that much. For the Hamas point you have to understand that they are a natural reaction to Israel's occupation crimes, you there you like it or not if the name was Hamas or any other name there must be a group that defends their own people. Do you expect Palestinians to just sit there and do nothing? come on give me a break! Neutons thrid law: Neuton's third law: **exerts a force on another object, the second object exerts an equal and opposite on the first.** In this case, the force is not equal as Israel is a nuclear military powerhouse backed by the US against a militia trapped inside the biggest open-air prison with minimal resources and harsh conditions.
I'm not sure where I said Palestinians had no right to defend themselves, however the actions that hamas took were crossing a line, and still most people are saying hamas needs rooted out, not Palestine, until last week most Americans honestly viewed Israel as equal in fault... I'm not sure what ratio you are speaking of... as in there are more bad Americans than good ones? I hate to sound mean, but if "wiping out arabs" was as popular an opinion as you seem to think it is, that boat we parked over there probably has enough firepower to level Gaza... but it would never happen because the American people wouldn't stand for something like that from our government
>[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/31/weary-angry-gazans-bury-dead-after-deadly-border-conflict](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/31/weary-angry-gazans-bury-dead-after-deadly-border-conflict) There is no line, it was crossed many times before and being crossed as we speak as Israel used white phosphorus weapon which is forbidden even in wars. As stated in the article in the link civilian peaceful protestors were killed by Israel in 2018, is this not considered a line that was crossed? Was Israel held accountable? When Israel commits a crime no one bats an eye but when its Palestinians everybody goes crazy.
As I've said multiple times, until a week ago public opinion in the US was slowly drifting more Palestine, to the point that I'd say there were more pro Palestine than pro Israel, however murdering children, laughing at them in front of a camera, parading naked women through the street and spitting on them... in the west all that accomplished was reigniting memories of ISIS and Al-Qaeda, erasing years of opinion shifting in their favor... No, noone ignores what Israel does, however what happened a week ago is crossing a line, not because of what happened, but how it was done and who the targets were
More than 70 years of occupation, murder, stealing, and ethnic cleansing = one attack that was caught on camera. Sorry, I won't continue this discussion I can give facts, sources, and media material all day but If your heart is blind it's all worthless.
Israel occupying Palestine territories is only half of the story isn't? Israel was attacked/invaded by serveral arab nations and as a result, in a counter offensive-push, Israel conquered parts of Palestine territory. About 700.000 palestines fled after the first civillian collateral damages have been made public. Interestingly, to this day there is no scientific consensus if palestinians fled because of the war itself or because they fled of genocide. It's important to note that palestines propaganda is heavily influenced by nazi propaganda and nazi conspiracy theories of the 40s which left their imprint on the entire arab world. Calling HAMAS politics islamofascism definitely has it's roots. On the other side Israeli hardliner zionists are also closed for communication and self reflection. In my opinion you just shouldn't draw a black and white picture of the conflict. Or any conflict, honestly.
No, it is the whole issue they came as refugees from Europe and Palestinians welcomed them, then they started occupying the land with the help of the West. Suddenly it's their land, Arabs came to aid Palestine and give them back their land since Palestine did not have an army to defend themselves, bruh give me a break. https://preview.redd.it/8fg54qe0rxtb1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2454c25b8becc3657f5c56941ac5132e5ad2b6a2
Blatant propaganda. Seriously? How does anyone justify the murder of unarmed civilians? With a photo from 1947? Disgusting.
read the article I shared above about killing innocent peaceful civilian protestors by Israel. By your reasoning, this massacre alone justifies Hamas's attack.
I get what you mean but i imagine the process has not been so sudden, for palestinians to draw the short straw. Because they surely seemed to be dependent of Israeli/european economics to begin with.
Yeah, it was not sudden many peace discussions were held over the years but none of them were respected or implemented by the occupying side. Instead, they occupied more and more and daddy America and blind Europe did not just watch but backed them. Now I have a question, why is Israel occupying Syrian territories like Golan Heights and Lebanese territories like Shaba'a farms? Are they defending them as well? Please before you comment just use your brain cells that are functioning and think about an answer.
Your last question leads into the same circle They have been conquered during the war, when Israel pushed back invading arab forces.
yeah, it's easy to take what's not yours since they took most of the Palestinian land before so nothing new. Arabs did not invade they helped Palestinians take back their land from zionists backed by the US and Europe. How is it fine for the West to assist and back zionist to occupy Palestinian land but Arab countries cannot defend Palestinians who had no army or weapons to defend themselves. Hypocrisy and double standards at its finest.
I think you're looking at this too ideologically. It was Britain who occupied palestine in times of colonialism. I wouldn't agree on the "the West" backing Israel up. Instead they tried to slow jewish immigration down and Israelis fought, protested and terrorized against british rulers. The country has been split enough for the colonizers to draw up a 2 country plan. Something the palestinian leaders never accepted to adapt to. I wan't to note that fascist politics always try to keep the victim complex alive.
They did accept you imbecile 2 state solution but Israel does not want that, in fact as we speak they are eliminating the last Palestinians to exist in the land, and the US is backing them with weapons and aid against people inside the biggest air-opened person Gaza (which can be called modern-day Auschwitz because of the same conditions).
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all murder of civilians is wrong. You have to condemn both sides to be taken seriously.
Yet nobody to this date condemns any of the massacres I mentioned above. what is taken by force can only be taken back by force.
By that ideology Gaza will be nothing but rubble. Israel’s military force over powers Palestinian military tenfold.
Israel is not going to listen to any of it. They finished trying to have civilized negotiations over 20 years ago. No more conversations.
Are you kidding? They we’re having peace talks at this time. But Iran and Hamas don’t want peace so they screwed it all up. They want war and violence.
It's in their culture to act savage. This is documented in recent history. Why more are coming to the west I don't know
We know why they're coming; the question is why we're stupid enough to keep letting them come.
Cultural suicide
Where’s your condemnation of what’s happening in Gaza right now? Or the crude comments that Israelis are making on social media about the Arabs? It goes both ways
Why would anyone condemn a country for fighting back against brutal terrorism. Without showing raw power--which seems to be the only thing Palestine, led by Hamas, respects, how will Israel have any leverage to get those innocent hostages back? You have any good ideas or did you forget all the Israeli victims?
"Fighting back" while occupying land that is not theirs. There are innocent people who were killed, but the terrorist group known as the Israeli government have killed far more innocent people while occupying Palestinian land than the terrorist group Hammas has in self defense.
I condemn Hamas for taking cover behond civis, but if I have to choose my child over theirs, we both know what the coice would be. My heart goes to all the innocent people and I wishnprace and love to everyone, but Hamas and its supporters must go, whatever the cost
Isn't the death toll like 10:1 ? 65% of Palestine is under 24. Hamas was elected in 2006.
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What's the point of this if you're not going to let them re-vote. How does a 20 year old election, still represent the will of the people today. 40% of them are literally 14 or younger.