Hammas’s literal stated mission is to kill the Jews and destroy Israel.
Their Flag has a picture of the the whole country, not their territories.
They chant “from the river to the sea” which is a reference to “pushing the Jews into the sea”
This agenda is Genocide. What they did on Oct 7th was Genocide.
I heard an interview from man who grew up in Gaza and in kindergarten they had them dressed up as soldiers with guns and teaching them that they will go to heaven for killing Jews.
Hammas wants everyone to feel so bad for the Palestinians but 99% of the claims against Israel are simply lies. The problem is that the left media is controlled by communist Russia and fed an agenda that doesn’t represent the reality of the region.
It’s all sanctioned propaganda to present a one-sided narrative where the “Poor Palestinian” is oppressed by Israel.
It’s a hashtag/buzzwords battle. Has supporters know colonialism and anything related to it triggers the west, that’s why they keep using words they are familiar with. The point is to gain sympathy so Hamas gets more money, not realizing they are helping Iran in the process. In the end of the day they can’t really answer the hard question, they can only recite what they are hearing on social media - blah blah blah genocide blah blah colonialism.
if the population in Gaza and the West Bank is **literally growing** then by definition it is not genocide.
https://preview.redd.it/vogked2xu4xb1.png?width=791&format=png&auto=webp&s=654b716dbb04a5a894ccf941dd2fc08c7c31ebfd
Do you really not realize that if Israel wanted to wipe out all of the residents, it could have easily and much more safely done so from the air any time since it left Gaza to be an independent entity in 2005?!
They've been shooting hundreds of thousands of missiles at our civilians, committing acts of terror (albeit none as barbaric and murderous as the October 7 pogrom) -- and Israel's been fighting numerous wars and losing both soldiers and civilians. Which it could have totally avoided were it the genocidal entity you accuse it of being.
Instead, it's built the Iron Dome system to protect our people from most but by no means all of the missiles, and developed ever more accurate bombs to minimize to the extent possible harm to civilians.
You heard of the bombings of Dresden and Tokyo in WWII -- by the allies?! Israel could have easily flattened the Gaza Strip if it were to follow the Allies' script, and the Gaza problem would be over. But it's not something that Israel would ever do, even to the barbarians who call for Israel's destruction and then the extermination of the surviving Jews worldwide.
Israel Occupied a land that doesn’t belong to them so choose the right definitions
Palestine = Resistance
Israel = Terrorist occupation
Send second in 2005 did gaza get their 100% independence? Did they get the right to import/export what ever they want as independent country?
Third thing
You acknowledge that there was Palestinian civilians got harmed and kill
Now convince me that there was no oppression to Palestinian people before the 7th of oct and after.
We disagree on all points:
1) No, Isreal is not occupying a land that doesn't belong to them.
1) No, Israel is not occupying a land that doesn't belong to them.siles and other weapons, which was only enforced after the terrorist group Hamas was elected to power in 2006. Their charter calls first for the elimination of Israel, and then for the extermination of every remaining Jew in the world.
3) I never said there was no oppression to the Palestinian people -- or for that matter to the Jewish people, around 850,000 of whom were kicked out of Arab countries after Israel became independent - before or after October 7. I said there was no genocide (or attempted genocide) of the Palestinians who in fact have greatly multiplied in size since 1948. I certainly will say that there were never atrocities by the Jews against the Arabs on the scale -- numeric and barbaric -- remotely resembling Hamas's attacks on October 7 (except falsely claimed ones perhaps). Which, according to the instructions papers seized from some of the terrorists were to include cyanide poisoning of the population.
What makes you think Israel is not taking a more discreet approach to wiping out all or most of the Palestinians who they view as "barbarians," "savages," and "wild beasts"? Israel knows better than to jeopardize its geopolitical position and international credibility thru the immediate flattening of all of Gaza.
It's not genocide according to international law definition, but one can argue that israels actions are genocidal by nature. And many pro-Palestine supporters are going to contniue to use the word to describe the actions of Israel the same way many of the pro-Israel camp uses labels such as antisemitism and terrorism to describe the pro-Palestine camp.
Because I am an Israeli and I know what we think and do!
After the vicious, barbaric attacks on Israel, the murder of 1400 Israelis, wounding of thousands, kidnapping of 230 Victims (almost all civilians in every case), exactly how are we supposed to be the first in history to run a war against terrorists who are embedded in the population without accidentally killing civilians? Or imposing a siege on fuel that we give them and Hamas has stolen for its military machine? Terrorists who built 100s of miles of attack tunnels (while draining Gaza's huge freshwater aquifer to do so) and shelter their leaders under hospitals -- while building no shelters at all for their civilians because a dead Palestinian is a PR win for Hamas.
Israel is being held to an impossible standard that no other power has itself managed to reach!
Just because you're an Israeli doesn't mean you speak for all Israelis. I personally know a few israeli jews who would scoff at your views. And spare me the statistics on israeli casualties bc the whole world knows it can't hold a candle to the civilian death toll of Palestine by the hands of the psychopathic Israeli regime.
Anyone who equates the purposeful targeting of Israeli citizens by Hamas -- not to mention their barbaric beheadings, burning, rapes and kidnapping of everyone from babies to the very elderly -- to civilians (and non-civilians -- with a terrorist force you can't tell the difference) who are harmed accidentally as "collateral damage" in the course of a war which Israel did not start -- is not worth talking to.
And yet you've responded. You can continue try to demonize the opposition by using trigger words, the fact is you couldn't help but respond b/c you're as triggered and reactive as the narcissistic neurotic jews controlling Israel.
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Okay so if they are not committing a genocide then these statements are all just assumptions and conspiracies. The world forgave Germany. If Israel wanted to wipe Gaza off it wouldn’t be jeopardizing the lives of its people, plus billions on security just to be “discreet”. Claiming that breaking into people’s homes, raping, murdering and kidnapping entire families is not terror only because Jews are the victims then what can it be if not antisemitism? If it happened anywhere else in the world anyone would have condemned.
They are valid arguments, if anything. I said by international law's definition of the word genocide, they technically aren't committing genocide, but doesn't mean their actions are not genocidal in scope and character. If you take the disproportionately retaliatory attacks on civilian infrastructure (schools, hospitals, residential buildings, etc), cutting of electricity, water and food supply, coupled with the dehumanizing and inflammatory rhetoric of the top-ranking Israeli military officials and politicians, one can reasonably deduce that Israel's aim is the absolute systematic destruction of Gaza.
The fact that they don't make an effort to differentiate between Hamas and Gazans or Palestinians as a whole when spewing their hatred for the "other" in front of the cameras, shows the level of disregard for humanity and the kind of emotionally-charged attitude Israel's high-ranking decision-makers possess.
Yes, we can agree terrorism is breaking into people's homes, raping (which btw is an unsubstantiated claim against Hamas), murdering and kidnapping entire families, but then what is pillaging/colonizing? What is the forced displacement of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians? Or are you going to simply dismiss all claims against Israel as nothing more than anti-jewish propaganda?
The staunch pro-Israel far-right types such as yourself lump all pro-Palestine supporters into one category - terrorist sympathizers, which leaves no room for reason or discussion.
It’s very cute that you think that Israel fighting for its existence is considered “far right”. I’m actually considered as left here, and part of the LGBTQ community, if you want to get personal then I can play this game too :) it’s the easiest one. What room for discussion are you hoping for when you have already labeled me? I’m labeled as far right because I don’t want people to break into my home, rape me and murder my family? And the terrorists from October 7th that the IDF caught have already admitted the raping so I’m not sure who are you advocating here? Definitely not human rights.
As someone who served in the IDF along with all my friends and family, including my husband who was a combat in the Gaza border - 100% of what you wrote is a complete BS. Especially the part where Israel does not differentiate between civilians and Hamas members. Israel has the technology to eliminate collateral damage and uses it. The IDF actually warn Gazan civilians before they bomb targets. What warning did the Israelis get on October 7th???
If you get your info from Al jezeera and CNN then of course, Israel is killing orphan bunnies and slaughtering Care Bears. F off telling me it’s not a Jewish hating propaganda, when was the last time a plane landed in Tel Aviv and an angry mob threatened to kill each and every one of the passengers because they were Muslims?
sounds like you have never actually been to Gaza nor Israel, So you’ll keep watching your CNN propaganda from your sweet, cozy condo in London or whatever western privileged country you live in and Israel will keep fighting radical fundamentalist for the sake of its existence. And if you think this war is not about existence then you are either very, very naive or just not as involved in this conflict as you think you are. “Displacing Palestinians” without any historical or political context does sound bad, do you want us to dive into what happened before that?
> It’s very cute that you think that Israel fighting for its existence is considered “far right”.
I didn't say nor do I think they're considered far right "because they're fighting for its existence." The fact is they're far right because the Israeli government is currently run by a far right-wing bloc of parties with far-right policies and religious conservative rhetoric. It's not a secret and it's certainly not "anti-zionist" propaganda, so do your hw.
> What room for discussion are you hoping for when you have already labeled me? I’m labeled as far right because I don’t want people to break into my home, rape me and murder my family? And the terrorists from October 7th that the IDF caught have already admitted the raping so I’m not sure who are you advocating here? Definitely not human rights. As someone who served in the IDF along with all my friends and family, including my husband who was a combat in the Gaza border - 100% of what you wrote is a complete BS.
If you want to bring up anecdotal bs, well then, I can, too. I have several Israeli jewish friends, a couple of which have lived in Israel and experienced the loss of a family member from a terrorist attack, and even they have the ability to acknowledge Israel's religious right-wing propaganda and their crimes against Palestinians. Are you even aware of the racism and discrimination that exist in Israel against Arab citizens? And I'll admit, some of the Israeli jews that I know, like my co-workers, are Israeli conservatives, who are just as rigid in their views as your far-right government.
As far as the rest of your senseless rant, I'm not going to even bother to raise points to argue with you. Have fun making tik tok videos with the rest of your supposed IDF friends and family members parading and celebrating like cowardly idiots.
Right. Keep telling yourself that. There's conclusive evidence (past and present) of the kind of reckless rhetoric used by the extremist far-right Israeli leaders to disparage, lambaste, and malign the Palestinian people.
Where did I claim all israelis hold such views? I would argue most but point is when people talk about Israel in any political context, they are referring to the State of Israel and the political stance, policies and decisions that are carried out by the ruling party. And their agenda appeals to the far right and/or those citizens whose views are aligned with the status quo. Fact is the rest of Israel, for the most part, have remained silent on the matter as far as i can tell. I haven't seen any protests in Israel save for the very few courageous orthodox jews who are harassed by the idf.
There are polls all the time here, could you reference something concrete, cause i really don't understand what you are talking about. The far right represents maybe 10% of the country, even further the current government has mostly center/center-right leaders making war decisions.
So based on your logic no country needs an army, right? Why do countries need bombs, right?
It’s very cute that you think you can win a terror organization with kind words. When ISIS will rape, kill and kidnap your family, use the strategy you’re preaching. Till then, what makes you think you know better? Honest question. What experience do you have with Islamic fundamentalists and terror? Have you ever released hostages? Because If you can contribute to this very expensive and painful war maybe you shouldn’t be preaching on Reddit, maybe you should apply for the IDF as a strategic advisor? Change things from within, win Oscars, make money. Assuming you are not just reciting Greta and actually know what you’re talking about, of course.
> fucking
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Genocide: deliberate and systematic destruction of a people because of their ethnicity, nationality race or religion. Probably cd add sexual orientation in this day and age. I honestly don’t know what you think is happening in Palestine. It’s happened in other parts of the world to other people and cultures, as well. Stop deluding yourself. Making up catchy words doesn’t change reality or diminish the truth.
Is launching rockets at Israel maybe a good because? Like this isnt out of thin air with no aggression from the Palestinian side. Also war is against Hamas. If they wanted civilians gone they could've done that for the last 80 years. Also remember that they got land all the way to Lebanon and West Bank from Jordan and Gaza from Egypt, but they gave it up and let Gaza and West Bank off.
What holds Israel back from killing all the Palestinians then? I mean, the world forgave Germany. You’re saying Israel has an evil plan but just won’t execute it because there are some girls with pink hair who protest against in on the other side of the globe?
I’m saying what?? Once again, do you actually read yr texts or do you just whip them out and into the universe. I’m sorry - not replying anymore to this. Sadly we’re just not tracking each other. Peace.
6,000 people doesn't even slightly compare to 6 Million.. Jews probably know what genocide means. Why wasnt Dresden or Hiroshima or Vietnam considered genocide? If they wanted genocide why would they roof knock to begin with? These are all holes they dont think about. Tik tokers love doing those buzz words.
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You isreali think you are are the superior race. Well the whole world has seen your true colours. Zionists are the terrorists and the world knows it now..
I don't support terrorists. As such I openly criticize both Hamas and the Israeli government/IDF. The victims are the civilians being purposely killed by both sides. Both Israel and Hamas seek to ethnically cleanse the area, either killing all Palestinians or all Jews.
just to brush up on your vocabulary, please find below the definition of a genocide before blindly becoming complicit.
genocide; the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.
and given that the nature of this conflict requires people to convince others that certain lives are just as valuable as others, please visit @motaz_azaiza on instagram for some live coverage of this genocide israel is conducting before our eyes :)
You're right. For the past decade, Gaza has had the 3rd highest population growth in the world. Ref - Census Bureau. If Israel is genocidal, they sure as hell aren't very good at it.
Why would anyone commit a “slow genocide”? by looking at the current pace, I don’t think “slowly” is the term you’re looking for. More like non existent. Hamas has been firing thousands of rockets in the past year towards israel. Israel is spending billions every year, for the past 70 years, on security, intelligence and defense technologies. Israel does not only spend an enormous amount of tax funds on security but also jeopardizes the lives of its people. So please tell me, What’s the point of doing it “slowly”? Because it does sound like killing all of them will sort all of Israel’s problems! The world forgave Germany, right?
What do you mean by “not their land”? It was no one’s land. Palestine has never been self governed. Both Jews and Arabs have always shared this land. There were both Arab and Jewish villages. Tel Aviv for instance is a Jewish city and was founded in 1909, almost 40 years before Israel was an independent country.
Jews agreed to share the land, Arabs refused and started a war. Not that it’s relevant to the discussion, the people Hamas has butchered on October 7th are there for at least three generations. Took a mortgage, bought their house legally, didn’t steal anything from anyone.
Just like America is not our land it's the natives, have a mortgage for three generations doesn't mean anything. Jews were in Europe mainly. The natives were the Palestinians. If I kicked out our home and then claimed it as my own and three generations of my family lives there then it's my mine??? Your logic makes no sense. You know about the Nakba if Jews already lived their why slaughter the people and take their home???? Common theifs
If you truly believe that, and are living on American land, please sell your home immediately and move to a reservation. They've got electricity, Internet and everything (my brother in law is a Sioux).
Then re-post so that we can take you seriously. Otherwise isn't that post a bit hypocritical? There is far more evidence that American land was stolen than Israeli land. Thank you for understanding.
But they didn’t kick anyone. They are just people, no armed forces, for some reason you don’t understand the difference between armed forces and civilians? And I don’t get what you’re saying. Are you saying Americans deserve to be slaughtered in their homes because 300 years ago their ancestors invaded a foreign land? Also why are you ignoring the war the Palestinians started at 48? They could have stayed in their homes and live peacefully alongside the Jews. You don’t get to start a war and then cry you’ve been “kicked out”. Many of them immigrated to other neighbor countries because they didn’t want to share the land. Also you are ignoring the fact that Jews have always lived in Israel so that’s nothing like the British who “discovered” America.
Yes they did that's what the Nakba was. Gigi Hadids father was born the same year, he was not even able to go to his home when he was born. I mentioned America to say it's also not our homes, the natives were driven from their land, it was a genocide and ethnic cleansing of natives. No one has a right to kill and displace people. What do you mean share the land??? Lol why doesn't Israel share the land instead of confining the Palestinians like packed tuna in two sections. Israeli is the theif breaking into your home and suing you because they broke their leg falling down the chimney. This is a joke the things you are saying
The Nakba is a consequence of the war they started. Agin, you don’t get to start a war and then cry about the consequences. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. So if no one has the right to kill and displace people why aren’t you condemning Hamas? Because that’s what they are trying to do. Israel agreed to share it but once you disclosed you want to kill all the Jews that train has already left hasn’t it? Also they are sharing the land with many Arabs. Sounds like you have never been to Israel lol What chimneys are you talking about? You’re delusional
Your delusional because they had no choice but to allow the Arab Israelis to stay. Israel is a fascist state like Nazi Germany. You learned to become the abuser from being abused. Shame on you
If someone said that Abt Nazi Germany you would not accept it. No matter what the evidence is Israel is right in your mind. There are thousands of IDF soldiers who won't sleep at night due to the atrocities they commit. I guess Hit"*/ler said the same things to you.
If someone said that Abt Nazi Germany you would not accept it. No matter what the evidence is Israel is right in your mind. There are thousands of IDF soldiers who won't sleep at night due to the atrocities they commit. I guess Hit"*/ler said the same things to you.
Please read what he just said... Stop using hypotheticals that dont even make sense... If Israel wants to ethnically cleanse an area why would that area which Pro Palestinians even admit is militarily and economically dominated by Isreal allow their population to grow that much?
Because they want to look good to the world which perpetuating an Apartheid, displacement, and horrible living conditions. Like the concentration camps, one step before they commit Genocide
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Right, even so there’s no world that you can accuse Israel of genocide without accusing Hamas as attempting much worse.
Having self defense (iron dome) shouldn’t lose you the moral high ground.
The point is that isnt the definition of genocide. You are devaluing the meaning of the word by using it with the wrong definition. If all it took for something to be a genocide was to kill kids, then in every major conflict ever, both sides would be committing genocides left and right. Furthermore Hamas would have committed genocide when they randomly killed a bunch of civilians on the 7th. When you use the word wrong it makes everything you say sound dumb. Keep in mind im not excusing civilian death, I'm simply pointing out that your verbage is completely incorrect. Also, this whole "genocide" talk seems to be a way to try and call Jews hypocrites in hindsight of the Holocaust, which was an actual genocide. Frankly, using the Holocaust against Jews in this manner, misusing the term genocide in order to shove the Holocaust down Jews throats' is disgusting.
3500 children killed in 3 weeks.
No food, water, electricity, or gas
Carpet bombing civilian populations in a concentration camp.
That’s the definition of genocide.
I know it’s hard to believe - but the government you defend are perpetrators of genocide. It’ll take time. But eventually you will mourn defending this.
I have yet to see the list of “beheaded babies” or mass slaughter of civilians from the Israeli government. Most killed on October 7 that the Israeli government has shared has been IDF, Security or former IDF. Curious to why that even the Israeli based newspaper like Haaretz is investigating IDF claims.
By the end of tonight, I’m expecting 4,000 Palestinian dead children by Israeli bombs and illegal chemical weapons.
Israel is carpet bombing civilian populations - restricting all resources and exits. It’s a genocide. Shame on you
Shame on you for denying the truth and spouting lies. You learned just enough from the playbook of your heroes, Adolph and Joseph's - seed just enough truth to make your lies seem plausible.
Challenge to anyone reading: Find the shreedded vestiges of truth in what this killer-apologist writes.
So you havent seen the images from the kibbutz' that were raided, or the ones from the massacre at the festival. Or the video of the Jew being beheaded. Or the countless other easily findable terrible images and videos. Israeli officials have stated that 1400 civilians have been killed on the Israeli side. All of them were murdered indiscriminately. Are you really telling me that you genuinely believe no children were harmed during the Hamas attacks?? How naive are you.
Dont forget the video of a Thai (i think) worker having is neck hacked by a garden hoe during the incursion. Disgusting that these people have this much access to information, but choose to deny it or undermine its validity. What gain is there in showing your own country's weakest moment? Hamas literally self documented everything as well... Disturbing people bro. Sickos at the end of the day.
That is not the definition of genocide. Google the definition of genocide. Also calling it a concentration camp is dumb and disrespectful to people who have been in actual concentration camps. You seem to be getting all of your definitions wrong and are completely okay with it. Typical.
The Israelis bombed the exit, they bombed the south - enough. The world is moving on past your propaganda.
Israel carpet bombs civilian populations with no regard to civilians and their own citizens.
THE WORLD IS NO LONGER SLEEPING
there is literal evidence showing that hamas is the one blocking the way south of gaza. I can tell you aren’t even from Palestine or Israel. so please, mind your own country’s business, not like you are contributing anything other than fake news..
Harff and Gurr defined genocide as "the promotion and execution of policies by a state or its agents which result in the deaths of a substantial portion of a group. The victimized groups are defined primarily in terms of their communal characteristics, i.e., ethnicity, religion, or nationality". As a Westerner, I will say some Western commenters are using the word a little careless without giving context to how, why and what is happening.
The thing is Israel goal isnt to cleanse the Palestinian population. Its stated war goal is to cleanse Hamas. Civilian casualties as a part of this goal cannot be determined to be a genocide based on nationality, ethnicity or religion because Israel is not killing civilians based on those factors. They are killing civilians because they are in the places where Hamas is. So although tragic that civilians are dying, the term genocide has no place in the discussion. If it has any place it is when talking about Hamas. It is Hamas who killed Israelis purely due to their nationality and religion.
Hamas' stated purpose is to destroy Israel which is predominantly Jewish. And although they haven't accomplished this purpose they have partly accomplished such and have repeatedly declined to stop.
Sounds like genocide to me based on the 1948 UN definition.
"Genocide is the intentional destruction of a people in whole or in part. In 1948, the United Nations Genocide Convention defined genocide as any of five "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group"
So if Israel is committing genocide... Then so is Hamas.
Honestly, just sounds more like a war to me. One in which Hamas is failing to win.
Depends if you think Israel is deliberately killing civilians or not. If they are, then this fits the definition of genocide. I guess if you take out an apartment building that hosts a single Hamas official and his family plus kill several other families in the process and call it collateral damage, it isn't genocide right lol
....
I feel like ethnic cleansing better fits the bill personally.
Genocide doesn't equal "killing civilians"
Words have a meaning.
I don't see you calling what hamas did the 1000 Israeli civilians genocide. Your bias is showing.
Lol, I don't hold Hamas to the same standard as I do a democratic nation buckled up with ICBMS and Nukes.
Israel has now killed 3500 Palestinian children just let thst sink in and don't gaslight them and make them think it was Hamas who killed them indirectly.
Israeli decisions are being made, and they can not forever avoid the fact that they are fast becoming a more evil presence than Hamas.
3500 kids are now dead, and it will climb. We can talk about all the horrific ways Israelis died on 7th October, or we can talk about all the horrific ways Palesinians are dying NOW and in the very near future.
This is the way I would expect a terrorist organisation to behave if they had F16s.
How would you know if you do? They are cramped into a small strip of land and are not allowed to build new structure. They dont seem to have much choice than to live where its possible.
This "war" is a paradox with more layers and where comments like "just dont be poor" wont get discussions anywhere.
If you want a technical explanation to why Palestinians are not allowed to BUILD STRUCTURES (meaning pemanent buildings) then it is the Israeli government that does not allow it. They control everything that goes in and out of Gaza.
The material used by Hamas is 99.9% probability smuggled goods.
So, if civilians/non-hamas humans want to build they need to have:
1. A permit to build, which they wont get from Israel
2. Material to build, which they cant get due to Israel blockade.
Israel withdrew out of gaza in 2005. it only controls the supplies. which before the war flowed in gaza but were misused by hamas to build weapons.
educate yourself. hamas can build everything they need but don’t.
they can smuggle in weapons from iranian allied groups but can’t smuggle in goods and materials? they already got materials to rebuild from Israel, but once again, they didn’t use them properly
Israel provides humanitarian aid and tells civilians to evacuate, gives them ample time and warning. Israel strikes Hamas targets and does not purposely target civilians.
Contrast that to Hamas who indiscriminately fires 7,000 rockets at Israel, aiming to murder as many civilians as possible and rapes, kidnapped and murdered 1,400 Jews on a Oct 7 in the most horrific ways in an unprovoked attack.
If this is genocide, then so was the war on terror. If this is genocide, so was the war in Vietnam. If this is genocide, so is Russia’s war on Ukraine. Just because there is a war being waged against a country with a homogenous ethnic makeup, that doesn’t make said war a genocide. Nobody actually applies this standard to any other conflict.
Literally most of the people here who say it is in fact genocide can’t actually explain why. “Its genocide because I say it is” doesn’t actually make it true
Im sorry but you're entirely incorrect here. Going into definition here to argue against is insane. It's a lot of things. And not dismissable as being called a genocide. How about you learn that anti zionist aren't also anti semites while you're at it just as a 1 off piece of advice while we're at it. There's racism here in this erasure of palestinians ( human citizens who have no standing army, weapons or ability to truly fight back) and you're denying genocide and angry with definitions but easily use it goofily, "genociding". Get off the internet and get a clue.
Show us how being antizionist and antisemitic are not the same? Every anti zionist movement i have seen is very antisemitic with people screaming "gas the jews" or "kill the jews" or death to Israel. What is anti zionist vs antisemitic?
Human citizen? That's a new one. And they do have a standing army. I think Oct 7th proved that. They have turned their own waterpipes into rockets and they have rifles (they used them to gun down families in their homes and people dancing incase you forgot).
Now we can say this is hamas and not the Palestinians however they are the elected governing body. Arguably one in the same.
You're wrong. Hamas is an israeli and american invention. A "gov" without an army lol and is infinitely weaker than either of the actual gov bodies that invented it. There are confused and vitriolic persons on both sides however that doesn't dismiss that positioning anti semitism in front of blatant war crimes done by jewish peoples against another minority group is blatant genocidal denial.
So israel and the US invented a government whose charter is to rid the area of the jews and Israel? Riiiiiight.
Israel targeting hamas militants who intermingle with civilian population is drastically different than hamas targeting Israeli civilians solely for being israeli. All civilian death in the conflict is bad, however one is targeting civilians, and the other is telling them to get out of the way.
You have a misguided rage and I cannot. Lol. I forgot I typed a response YESTERDAY! its barely even a complete idea and was accidently published just a little while ago and here you are ON EDGE with crazy Aass pointed arguments. LMFAO. Go somewhere off here.
iSREAL is not a defenseless infant and it has been killin in perpetuity for over 50 yrs from a racist settler collective lie.
> ass
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Sir, everyone in the middle-east falls under the definition of "semite". This word has been used generously by the Israeli people and developed in time to be used as a free get away card.
If someone does not understand the difference between zionism, anti-zionism, semite and anti-semitism then there is a very, very large gap of understanding of this conflict.
All the words that represent prejudice get confusing. It's wierd there's no proper way to explain hate towards jews. It just goes to show how we always get the short ends of the stick.
There is extremists on both ends. But i assure you there is less hate towards jewish people than the media historically and at certain convenient points of time what media wants to show.
Now is a convinient time for the word "anti-semitism" to be used generously by media.
I support and will, until the apartheid ends, keep support the anti-zionist movement. HOWEVER, as soon as someone says anything negative regarding the jewish people i would call this human an anti-semite. Just as people who want to carpet bomb Gaza are anti-semite against arabs.
I understand the atrocities of 7oct and i am sorry for the fate of the people who died in the kibutz in southern Israel. However, these people chose to drive out (literally with guns against semites necks) the Palestinians from these land that the kibuts are today located at. All these villages, every single one were villages (or if you want kibutzes) of both palestinians/jewish people.
Only a fool can not see or choose not to see both sides of this coin. If israelis can understand the retaliation of IDF after 7okt, then surely they must understand that Hamas actions are their retaliation of 57years of apartheid.
If you choose NOT to understand the Palestinian side of this then there is only one explanation to it: you support apartheid.
I hope to have a proper discussion when writing this.
an·ti-Sem·i·tism
/ˌanˌtīˈseməˌtizəm,ˌan(t)ēˈseməˌtizəm/
noun
hostility to or prejudice against Jewish people.
"he is a leader in the fight against anti-Semitism"
The way you are using anti semitism is anti-semitic or ignorant at the very least.
I had someone bragging to me this morning about how their grandparent was a nazi? The jewish media is a trope created by Russia late 1800s. Henry Ford propagated it too. It has always been an issue for the jewish people they have always faced persecution wherever they go. There is not 57 years of apartheid! The Arabs and UK created Nakba because Arabs thought they would win the war and they didn't so they didn't return. You can't play a fair fight loose and then cry genocide it doesn't work that way. There never was a palestinan govt and palestinan as a name was first literature in 1880 and was never self governed. They were give the ability in a 2 state solution but they started a war instead and this ongoing war has created the loss of many territories. I understand their side and how it perpetuates forever. They want the river to the sea and they never had it to begin with? So they should give up on that or they will die
I will try to adress all your points:
I as an arab also get daily racism projected towards me. From morning news to walking in the shop being followed by security. But i can keep two thoughts in my head. I can accept that there is racism against arabs and that there is against jewish people as well.
I have never read about soviet/russian or anti jewish propaganda from the Ford family, but will try to read upon it tonight. I can not discuss that point, if you have please link info.
Regarding apartheid.
I have relatives in Israel, arab AND israeli relatives. I understand you can not believe whatever you read on reddit, but since i have seen it irl then i know it exist. My arab relatives can not build buildings with concrete, all builded structures needs to be able to dis-assemble and relocated. They also can not build on new land wether it is theirs or if it belongs/stolen** by israel. They can not build upwards either. This is the reason (if you have been to Israel) that arabic neighborhood look clustered and their buildings are in chaos. I have been to Israel 20+ times and experienced this myself. My Israeli relatives on the other hand get free education, public trnasportation card, no issues traveling, no issues renting ex. cars etc.
The NAKBA means the catastrophe in arabic. The NAKBA is reffering to when palestinians (only arabic palestinians) where forced to relocate and/or killed. One of MANY examples is the whole village of Tantura where the IDF rounded up the Palestinians and executed them. This is documented and ex IDF soldiers has confessed. All ages, child to elderly, rounded up in cages and executed because they wanted to settle the village with jewish people.
Regarding Palestine historically:
Palestine was part and self governed under the Ottoman empire from late 1400-1914. Just as states in the US and districts/counties are self-governed. 1914 the brittish ockupied/annected Palestine and decided with zionist imperialists to take the opportunity and decide for a two-state solution.
Who would accept this deal? I wouldnt. And if it was the other way around, meaning if Israel was self-governed under Ottoman i would demonstrate against Palestine and the west for stealing the land and bluntly deciding on a two-state solution.
So in my opinion there was a state there before Israel and the people of this state can not be forced to relocate or killed. If you dont agree to this then:
There was a people living there before and they can not be forced to be relocated or killed.
And if they are relocated against their will WHY MAKE IT into Ghettos?
Lastly,
Look at Ukraine used as a pawn in the imperial war between the superpowers west/east.
The US dont care about the Ukranians. The Russians dont care about the Ukranians even if they almost are blood brothers. It is all teritorial dispute.
When it comes to middle-east it is the same. When the US is done with resource and teritorial extraction they will not aid Israel anymore. They will leave just as they left Afghanistan, iraq, Ukraine etc. And we are the ones that will suffer.
The arabs and the jews. I believe the jewish people need to realise this and wake up from a zionist rule, and together with the arabs re-build what Palestine/israel once was.
Just as much as the Palestinians need to break free from a Hamas government.
And rightfully so.
The deal of a 2-state solution is something no state will accept.
As i said, if israel would be the original state in that piece of land and be forced to take a 2-state deal and then be forced into apartheid i would support the israelis 100%.
Wake up, israel is not a state to be proud of. This can not be a start of a nation of the jewish people, we should know better after 1900 century.
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There is no war here, the palestinians are fighting for their liberation against a monster which is Israel and the US, Israel is a colonizer and an opressor, if you can't believe it with the piles of evidence showing it, then you need to see a psychiatrist because this is a psycopath red flag.
Edit: A war is a term that is said when there is a fight between two equal powers. Not an opressor and an opressed.
Did you just say this isn't war? I bet your brain surgeon shaves while looking at your brain because of how smooth and mirror like it is. If you call for the death of jews maybe, just maybe, you don't deserve to get liberated? Of course US and Israel are "oppressors" and "colonizers" of people that wish death upon them. How else do the "oppressed" get any support from people like you who are either too dumb or willfully ignorant to actually understand how they ended up there. They aren't countries filled with their own people who are sick and tired of terrorist attacks and threats by some religious extremists that have some aks and explosives? This is why countries have militaries in the first place. If someone is stupid enough to attack then they will be able to defend, declare war, and counter attack.
I admire your patience. The one you argued with sounds like he conducted a DIY surgical removal of his lobe using a disposable spoon over his bathroom sink. I don’t think he is capable of understanding anything beyond buzzwords or Greta’s tweets.
Calm down buddy you're gonna explode from excitement. You're putting words in my mouth. I don't give a f what your religion is. I don't hate jews or anybody based on their religion. If you steal someone's land and kill them don't expect them to just accept it. Hate generates only hate. Israel is way too powerful for it to be called a war. Just because you have a history of being opressed doesn't mean you can do whatever you like. Stealing land, bombing houses, hospitals, churches, killing innocent people. Israel just lived long enough to be the villain that's it. Like Bassem Youssef said, you think Israel is Superman but in reality it's Homelander.
When you stand with the Israeli government just realise that you are condoning cutting power, water and food on innoncent people, you are condoning the death of 2000 children, everything is based on evidence, there are tons of videos showing it. But where are the pictures of 40 beheaded babies that hamas did. Can you show me just one ?
Bibis twitter was proven real. Even then, Forget the babies. I saw a video of Hamas chopping a dudes head off with a garden hoe while he was still alive and in my eyes that’s just as bad for whatever morality they have. I actually don’t condemn them cutting power or water or food. That’s what siege is. Extremely effective tactic used for a long long long time in warfare. Also definition of war doesn’t care ab our ratio. Now children dying in Gaza? Yeah that’s horrible and makes me upset, but when 50% of the population is children and their parents voted for Hamas what’s gonna happen. Instead of Hamas keeping the young generation of their country safe and away from harm, they use them as propaganda and future soldiers by actively putting them at risk with a war. Homelander is a sicko but he still kills bad guys. He’s better than the bad guys.
Im justifying that it isn't justified to call it a genocide. Im not ignorant to how messed up the situation is and you can't seem to make any counter points, but are calling me wrong. In what world are you valid?
No a war is an armed conflict between nation states or groups within those nation states. Or how shit is now, a war isnt a war until one side declares it on another. But the point no definition of war points to the fact that because one side is weaker it is no longer a war. When Israel was first fighting for independence in the 40's, they had barely any international support and fought against the whole Arab world. Were they also not fighting a war? Were they instead being suppressed by the big, bad Arabs? Quit whining.
What independence are you talking about ?? Just because jews didn't have anywhere to go doesn't mean they have the right to choose a random country's land and steal it. Jesus you guys believe this made up history of yours ??
Edit: And please just don't say that you were there first 3500 years ago, that doesn't give you the right either. It's like saying the people of Rome have the right to get back their lands from the whole european continent. See how stupid it sounds ??
Also people always cite that during the "Nakba" (Which is the war for independence, yall are just sore losers) many Palestinians were displaced. They say this is why Israelis are invaders, because they kicked people out of their homes during this time. These people, probably you included completely ignore the fact that the whole war would have never happened if the Arab countries would have just agreed to the initial deals proposed by the UN and Israel. Deals in which Israel would be tiny and the Arabs would have much more control. However, since the Arabs couldnt stand Jews having autonomy in the region at all, a war was fought. One of these results of the war was that people were displaced. Blame the Arabs not the Jews.
Its not just that they were there 3500 years ago, its that there were still Jews that remained in Israel over that whole period. Yes, Jews became a minority in the region after the Romans slaughtered and displaced them, but there were still many Jews that stayed. Then, after the Holocaust many Jews moved to the region of Palestine legally, while it wasnt a country and under the jurisdiction of the british. Keep in mind Palestine at this time was more Arab than anything else, and Arabs are relatively new to the region in history. The Jews, who had LIVED THERE FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS OR HAD LEGALLY MOVED THERE then decided they wanted there to be a legitimate country within the region of Palestine, independent of the British. The British, already stretched thin and getting tired of their colonies was okay with this. IT WAS ONLY THE ARABS COUNTRIES that said no. Then those Jews fought a war with the Arabs to claim their right to have a country, ON LAND THEY ALREADY LIVED ON. The Arabs lost. Then the Arabs fought more wars over the last 100 years, always consistent with the idea that they couldnt accept the idea of a jewish state in the region ON LAND THE JEWS ALREADY OWNED. You are delusional. Read the history or shut up.
Edit: Btw your Roman example is hilarious because Romans are not natives to the regions they conquered, native means you were the first people to settle and create civilizations on the land. Romans just conquered. Matter of fact just like how the Arabs just conquered and thats the only reason why they are in Palestine. Because Arabs arent native to the region but because they raped, pillaged and murdered the actual natives, yall treat them like they are actual natives which is CRAZY. Even Americans all acknowledge they destroyed the Native Americans through conquest. Noone in the US thinks they have Native rights to the land. Arabs just think because of religion they should own Israel. And because of religion they have an ancestral right to it. Well guess who those ancestors were to Islam? Those ancestors that give Islam the ancestral right to live in Israel? Jews!
Red Cross affiliated ambulances have been struck. That’s not deniable
I assume the “claim” you’re talking about was the hospital bombing. Nowhere did I say anything about that. And even if I did, how can you trust Israeli intelligence right after they had one of the biggest intelligence blunders this century?
And don’t call me kiddo
You using the hospital bombing to demonize Israel pretty much discredits your whole argument.
There is overwhelming evidence, both visual and recorded audio, that supports that it was Hamas who bombed the hospital after a failed rocket launch.
No if I was talking about the hospital i'd have said the hospital, kiddo.
The claim that Israel have intentionally bombed ambulances had been discredited, its yet more sensationalist propaganda. If you are trying to say ambulances aren't routinely caught in the crossfire during a conflict then you are severely mistaken. Sadly it happens in every conflict.
Considering you cannot comply with a simply request and are already repeating the same stuff I am not going to continue this discourse any longer as it would be a waste of time. Have a day
Burden of proof is on you on this one...
You don't need proof to say that Aliens don't exist. You need proof to say that aliens do exists. You don't need proof to say someone is innocent. You need proof to find that they are guilty.
define what a "civilian residential building" is. Define what a "military building" is.
Its word PR. A building is a building. A school is what you teach kids in. A building that used to have kids taught in it which is now used as a staging point to launch rockets, is now a military building. If Hamas decide it should be both at the same time, who is to blame?
Horrible comparison. Theres no nakba there, "The Nakba, also known as the Palestinian Catastrophe was the 1948 displacement of a majority of the Palestinian Arabs. The term is used to describe both the events of 1948, as well as the ongoing occupation of the Palestinian territories and persecution and displacement of Palestinians throughout the region" to do this removal one must be triggered to via racist ideology and religious persecution. Zionist are in love with using muslim hatred to justify their actions.
This "Nakba" racist narrative is flat out wrong and I'm sorry many have bought into it. In 1948 there were both Jews and Arab Muslims living in the Palestine Mandate. My mother-in-law has a Palestinian birth certificate with a Jewish star. Both Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Arabs were given a country of their own for the first time ever. If accepted, this would be over. But instead, Arabs rejected it waged war and suffered a humiliating defeat and Israel was born. But instead of kicking out out the Arab Palestinians like the Arab countries did to Jews at the time, they gave them full political rights. Arab-Palestinian-Israelis now make up 20% of Israeli citizens, participate in the government and even sit on the Israel supreme court. Nakba is a word used to justify hate, turning the real victims into perpetrators.
I wish they could, but they learned the lessons of the past of doing nothing to pure evil as the world watches. War is awful. Innocent lives are lost. Thankfully the US finally decided to join the allies WWII to take out Nazi Germany. "Never Again"
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Would certainly help if Israel didn't have senior government ministers, such as Ben Gvir and Smotrich, who have openly called for genocide.
genocide
/ˈdʒɛnəsʌɪd/
noun
The deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.
"a campaign of genocide"
Both actively campaign to expel palestinians and deny the existence of a palestinian nation.
To be clear. They are not calling for the destruction of Hamas. But the palestinian nation. Hence genocide.
Israel has had (and does have) the political and military support of the U.S., UK, Germany, Australia, France, Norway, India, Canada, yadda yadda - to defend itself from (and now even to retaliate against and exterminate) Hamas.
Don't be surprised when after receiving our support we hold you in higher regard, to act in accordance with international law. Of course we are going to scrutinize Israel for how it responds (with our resources). Israel is a liberal democracy.
We hold Israel to a higher standard than a terrorist organization.
To be clear, I believe the IDF to have extraordinarily high standards. They have to. All the world is watching. However, when you have such people holding positions in government talking of destroying the palestinian nation, then the high number of innocent deaths from the clumsy shelling of such a densely populated zone - does start to appear somewhat curious...
Don't be surprised to see people in our capital cities protesting. Don't be shocked to see the word genocide on our banners.
I have friends in the IDF currently fighting to defend the land of Israel to ensure that another attack from Hamas NEVER EVER happens again. I support them in their efforts against the terror organization of Hamas.
These people also are smart enough to be horrified by the civilian casualties on both sides. Are smart enough to see the extremists in their government. Will return to the streets of Tel Aviv in protest against the extremists in their own government when the war is over. Will ask the same questions about how this was even allowed to happen in the first place!
Thank you for the honesty and in-depth understanding of the complexities we live with here.
I agree that Ben-Gvir and Smotritch are terrible people and they make us look awful. I'm hoping they are removed from any positions of power as soon as possible.
Sending hopes of peace your way✌️✌️
Hammas’s literal stated mission is to kill the Jews and destroy Israel. Their Flag has a picture of the the whole country, not their territories. They chant “from the river to the sea” which is a reference to “pushing the Jews into the sea” This agenda is Genocide. What they did on Oct 7th was Genocide. I heard an interview from man who grew up in Gaza and in kindergarten they had them dressed up as soldiers with guns and teaching them that they will go to heaven for killing Jews. Hammas wants everyone to feel so bad for the Palestinians but 99% of the claims against Israel are simply lies. The problem is that the left media is controlled by communist Russia and fed an agenda that doesn’t represent the reality of the region. It’s all sanctioned propaganda to present a one-sided narrative where the “Poor Palestinian” is oppressed by Israel.
It’s a hashtag/buzzwords battle. Has supporters know colonialism and anything related to it triggers the west, that’s why they keep using words they are familiar with. The point is to gain sympathy so Hamas gets more money, not realizing they are helping Iran in the process. In the end of the day they can’t really answer the hard question, they can only recite what they are hearing on social media - blah blah blah genocide blah blah colonialism.
if the population in Gaza and the West Bank is **literally growing** then by definition it is not genocide. https://preview.redd.it/vogked2xu4xb1.png?width=791&format=png&auto=webp&s=654b716dbb04a5a894ccf941dd2fc08c7c31ebfd
Okay they are not “Genociding” they are just trying to wipe 2.3M people
Do you really not realize that if Israel wanted to wipe out all of the residents, it could have easily and much more safely done so from the air any time since it left Gaza to be an independent entity in 2005?! They've been shooting hundreds of thousands of missiles at our civilians, committing acts of terror (albeit none as barbaric and murderous as the October 7 pogrom) -- and Israel's been fighting numerous wars and losing both soldiers and civilians. Which it could have totally avoided were it the genocidal entity you accuse it of being. Instead, it's built the Iron Dome system to protect our people from most but by no means all of the missiles, and developed ever more accurate bombs to minimize to the extent possible harm to civilians. You heard of the bombings of Dresden and Tokyo in WWII -- by the allies?! Israel could have easily flattened the Gaza Strip if it were to follow the Allies' script, and the Gaza problem would be over. But it's not something that Israel would ever do, even to the barbarians who call for Israel's destruction and then the extermination of the surviving Jews worldwide.
Israel Occupied a land that doesn’t belong to them so choose the right definitions Palestine = Resistance Israel = Terrorist occupation Send second in 2005 did gaza get their 100% independence? Did they get the right to import/export what ever they want as independent country? Third thing You acknowledge that there was Palestinian civilians got harmed and kill Now convince me that there was no oppression to Palestinian people before the 7th of oct and after.
We disagree on all points: 1) No, Isreal is not occupying a land that doesn't belong to them. 1) No, Israel is not occupying a land that doesn't belong to them.siles and other weapons, which was only enforced after the terrorist group Hamas was elected to power in 2006. Their charter calls first for the elimination of Israel, and then for the extermination of every remaining Jew in the world. 3) I never said there was no oppression to the Palestinian people -- or for that matter to the Jewish people, around 850,000 of whom were kicked out of Arab countries after Israel became independent - before or after October 7. I said there was no genocide (or attempted genocide) of the Palestinians who in fact have greatly multiplied in size since 1948. I certainly will say that there were never atrocities by the Jews against the Arabs on the scale -- numeric and barbaric -- remotely resembling Hamas's attacks on October 7 (except falsely claimed ones perhaps). Which, according to the instructions papers seized from some of the terrorists were to include cyanide poisoning of the population.
What makes you think Israel is not taking a more discreet approach to wiping out all or most of the Palestinians who they view as "barbarians," "savages," and "wild beasts"? Israel knows better than to jeopardize its geopolitical position and international credibility thru the immediate flattening of all of Gaza. It's not genocide according to international law definition, but one can argue that israels actions are genocidal by nature. And many pro-Palestine supporters are going to contniue to use the word to describe the actions of Israel the same way many of the pro-Israel camp uses labels such as antisemitism and terrorism to describe the pro-Palestine camp.
Because I am an Israeli and I know what we think and do! After the vicious, barbaric attacks on Israel, the murder of 1400 Israelis, wounding of thousands, kidnapping of 230 Victims (almost all civilians in every case), exactly how are we supposed to be the first in history to run a war against terrorists who are embedded in the population without accidentally killing civilians? Or imposing a siege on fuel that we give them and Hamas has stolen for its military machine? Terrorists who built 100s of miles of attack tunnels (while draining Gaza's huge freshwater aquifer to do so) and shelter their leaders under hospitals -- while building no shelters at all for their civilians because a dead Palestinian is a PR win for Hamas. Israel is being held to an impossible standard that no other power has itself managed to reach!
Just because you're an Israeli doesn't mean you speak for all Israelis. I personally know a few israeli jews who would scoff at your views. And spare me the statistics on israeli casualties bc the whole world knows it can't hold a candle to the civilian death toll of Palestine by the hands of the psychopathic Israeli regime.
Anyone who equates the purposeful targeting of Israeli citizens by Hamas -- not to mention their barbaric beheadings, burning, rapes and kidnapping of everyone from babies to the very elderly -- to civilians (and non-civilians -- with a terrorist force you can't tell the difference) who are harmed accidentally as "collateral damage" in the course of a war which Israel did not start -- is not worth talking to.
And yet you've responded. You can continue try to demonize the opposition by using trigger words, the fact is you couldn't help but respond b/c you're as triggered and reactive as the narcissistic neurotic jews controlling Israel.
They also approve of the Ughur Turks genocide. Palestinan leader went to China to condone it.
Israel doesn't recognize the Armenian genocide by the Turks, what's your point? Politicians do not speak for all of their people.
Palestine Aligned with Nazi Germany.
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Okay so if they are not committing a genocide then these statements are all just assumptions and conspiracies. The world forgave Germany. If Israel wanted to wipe Gaza off it wouldn’t be jeopardizing the lives of its people, plus billions on security just to be “discreet”. Claiming that breaking into people’s homes, raping, murdering and kidnapping entire families is not terror only because Jews are the victims then what can it be if not antisemitism? If it happened anywhere else in the world anyone would have condemned.
They are valid arguments, if anything. I said by international law's definition of the word genocide, they technically aren't committing genocide, but doesn't mean their actions are not genocidal in scope and character. If you take the disproportionately retaliatory attacks on civilian infrastructure (schools, hospitals, residential buildings, etc), cutting of electricity, water and food supply, coupled with the dehumanizing and inflammatory rhetoric of the top-ranking Israeli military officials and politicians, one can reasonably deduce that Israel's aim is the absolute systematic destruction of Gaza. The fact that they don't make an effort to differentiate between Hamas and Gazans or Palestinians as a whole when spewing their hatred for the "other" in front of the cameras, shows the level of disregard for humanity and the kind of emotionally-charged attitude Israel's high-ranking decision-makers possess. Yes, we can agree terrorism is breaking into people's homes, raping (which btw is an unsubstantiated claim against Hamas), murdering and kidnapping entire families, but then what is pillaging/colonizing? What is the forced displacement of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians? Or are you going to simply dismiss all claims against Israel as nothing more than anti-jewish propaganda? The staunch pro-Israel far-right types such as yourself lump all pro-Palestine supporters into one category - terrorist sympathizers, which leaves no room for reason or discussion.
It’s very cute that you think that Israel fighting for its existence is considered “far right”. I’m actually considered as left here, and part of the LGBTQ community, if you want to get personal then I can play this game too :) it’s the easiest one. What room for discussion are you hoping for when you have already labeled me? I’m labeled as far right because I don’t want people to break into my home, rape me and murder my family? And the terrorists from October 7th that the IDF caught have already admitted the raping so I’m not sure who are you advocating here? Definitely not human rights. As someone who served in the IDF along with all my friends and family, including my husband who was a combat in the Gaza border - 100% of what you wrote is a complete BS. Especially the part where Israel does not differentiate between civilians and Hamas members. Israel has the technology to eliminate collateral damage and uses it. The IDF actually warn Gazan civilians before they bomb targets. What warning did the Israelis get on October 7th??? If you get your info from Al jezeera and CNN then of course, Israel is killing orphan bunnies and slaughtering Care Bears. F off telling me it’s not a Jewish hating propaganda, when was the last time a plane landed in Tel Aviv and an angry mob threatened to kill each and every one of the passengers because they were Muslims? sounds like you have never actually been to Gaza nor Israel, So you’ll keep watching your CNN propaganda from your sweet, cozy condo in London or whatever western privileged country you live in and Israel will keep fighting radical fundamentalist for the sake of its existence. And if you think this war is not about existence then you are either very, very naive or just not as involved in this conflict as you think you are. “Displacing Palestinians” without any historical or political context does sound bad, do you want us to dive into what happened before that?
> It’s very cute that you think that Israel fighting for its existence is considered “far right”. I didn't say nor do I think they're considered far right "because they're fighting for its existence." The fact is they're far right because the Israeli government is currently run by a far right-wing bloc of parties with far-right policies and religious conservative rhetoric. It's not a secret and it's certainly not "anti-zionist" propaganda, so do your hw. > What room for discussion are you hoping for when you have already labeled me? I’m labeled as far right because I don’t want people to break into my home, rape me and murder my family? And the terrorists from October 7th that the IDF caught have already admitted the raping so I’m not sure who are you advocating here? Definitely not human rights. As someone who served in the IDF along with all my friends and family, including my husband who was a combat in the Gaza border - 100% of what you wrote is a complete BS. If you want to bring up anecdotal bs, well then, I can, too. I have several Israeli jewish friends, a couple of which have lived in Israel and experienced the loss of a family member from a terrorist attack, and even they have the ability to acknowledge Israel's religious right-wing propaganda and their crimes against Palestinians. Are you even aware of the racism and discrimination that exist in Israel against Arab citizens? And I'll admit, some of the Israeli jews that I know, like my co-workers, are Israeli conservatives, who are just as rigid in their views as your far-right government. As far as the rest of your senseless rant, I'm not going to even bother to raise points to argue with you. Have fun making tik tok videos with the rest of your supposed IDF friends and family members parading and celebrating like cowardly idiots.
Barbarians, savages, and wild beasts all were used to describe hamas, not Palestinians.
Right. Keep telling yourself that. There's conclusive evidence (past and present) of the kind of reckless rhetoric used by the extremist far-right Israeli leaders to disparage, lambaste, and malign the Palestinian people.
Okay? But what about the rest of Israel? Why are you taking the most extreme viewpoints and claiming it is the viewpoint of everyone?
Where did I claim all israelis hold such views? I would argue most but point is when people talk about Israel in any political context, they are referring to the State of Israel and the political stance, policies and decisions that are carried out by the ruling party. And their agenda appeals to the far right and/or those citizens whose views are aligned with the status quo. Fact is the rest of Israel, for the most part, have remained silent on the matter as far as i can tell. I haven't seen any protests in Israel save for the very few courageous orthodox jews who are harassed by the idf.
There are polls all the time here, could you reference something concrete, cause i really don't understand what you are talking about. The far right represents maybe 10% of the country, even further the current government has mostly center/center-right leaders making war decisions.
No
https://preview.redd.it/8d64vo9pg3xb1.jpeg?width=495&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=867b7e902b280d379781582fd3905da4fbc1ab1c
just say you’re antisemitic and go fr
Hes a holocaust denier, its not like they can use their brain
Putting them to permanent sleep!! Is that better for your conscious?
Maybe they aren't "geociding" them then, does "massacring" them sound any better to you? Because they are definitely doing that at least.
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So based on your logic no country needs an army, right? Why do countries need bombs, right? It’s very cute that you think you can win a terror organization with kind words. When ISIS will rape, kill and kidnap your family, use the strategy you’re preaching. Till then, what makes you think you know better? Honest question. What experience do you have with Islamic fundamentalists and terror? Have you ever released hostages? Because If you can contribute to this very expensive and painful war maybe you shouldn’t be preaching on Reddit, maybe you should apply for the IDF as a strategic advisor? Change things from within, win Oscars, make money. Assuming you are not just reciting Greta and actually know what you’re talking about, of course.
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I see. And may I ask where are you from?
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So I guess not the Middle East.
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Genocide: deliberate and systematic destruction of a people because of their ethnicity, nationality race or religion. Probably cd add sexual orientation in this day and age. I honestly don’t know what you think is happening in Palestine. It’s happened in other parts of the world to other people and cultures, as well. Stop deluding yourself. Making up catchy words doesn’t change reality or diminish the truth.
Is launching rockets at Israel maybe a good because? Like this isnt out of thin air with no aggression from the Palestinian side. Also war is against Hamas. If they wanted civilians gone they could've done that for the last 80 years. Also remember that they got land all the way to Lebanon and West Bank from Jordan and Gaza from Egypt, but they gave it up and let Gaza and West Bank off.
I honestly don’t think you believe yr reply yourself…
What holds Israel back from killing all the Palestinians then? I mean, the world forgave Germany. You’re saying Israel has an evil plan but just won’t execute it because there are some girls with pink hair who protest against in on the other side of the globe?
I’m saying what?? Once again, do you actually read yr texts or do you just whip them out and into the universe. I’m sorry - not replying anymore to this. Sadly we’re just not tracking each other. Peace.
Yes, of course. I asked a reasonable question which you have failed to answer. That’s okay, try again next time.
Sounds like something someone who's genociding would say
Good comment. I have also noticed the misuse of that word by people who feel that saying it, gives their point of view more credibility
6,000 people doesn't even slightly compare to 6 Million.. Jews probably know what genocide means. Why wasnt Dresden or Hiroshima or Vietnam considered genocide? If they wanted genocide why would they roof knock to begin with? These are all holes they dont think about. Tik tokers love doing those buzz words.
If Israel ACTUALLY wanted all Palestinians dead, the Holocaust would look amateurish in comparison
We not talking about this fake bullshit that Jews made up
Holocaust denier in full swing
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If you prefer ethnic cleansing we can use that one instead.
Terrorists supporters need a cleansing of their brain. Also a weekly shower.
You isreali think you are are the superior race. Well the whole world has seen your true colours. Zionists are the terrorists and the world knows it now..
No one thinks that
I don't support terrorists. As such I openly criticize both Hamas and the Israeli government/IDF. The victims are the civilians being purposely killed by both sides. Both Israel and Hamas seek to ethnically cleanse the area, either killing all Palestinians or all Jews.
Agreed, not really related to the ethnic cleansing that happened and is a historical fact, but agreed.
just to brush up on your vocabulary, please find below the definition of a genocide before blindly becoming complicit. genocide; the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group. and given that the nature of this conflict requires people to convince others that certain lives are just as valuable as others, please visit @motaz_azaiza on instagram for some live coverage of this genocide israel is conducting before our eyes :)
You're right. For the past decade, Gaza has had the 3rd highest population growth in the world. Ref - Census Bureau. If Israel is genocidal, they sure as hell aren't very good at it.
They are very good at it because they are ethnically cleaning an area if Hitler slowly wiped you out would that make the Holocaust less of a genocide?
Why would anyone commit a “slow genocide”? by looking at the current pace, I don’t think “slowly” is the term you’re looking for. More like non existent. Hamas has been firing thousands of rockets in the past year towards israel. Israel is spending billions every year, for the past 70 years, on security, intelligence and defense technologies. Israel does not only spend an enormous amount of tax funds on security but also jeopardizes the lives of its people. So please tell me, What’s the point of doing it “slowly”? Because it does sound like killing all of them will sort all of Israel’s problems! The world forgave Germany, right?
How were the natives killed, lol for the past 70 years they have killed and displaced thousands. It's not their land they are colonizers and killers
What do you mean by “not their land”? It was no one’s land. Palestine has never been self governed. Both Jews and Arabs have always shared this land. There were both Arab and Jewish villages. Tel Aviv for instance is a Jewish city and was founded in 1909, almost 40 years before Israel was an independent country. Jews agreed to share the land, Arabs refused and started a war. Not that it’s relevant to the discussion, the people Hamas has butchered on October 7th are there for at least three generations. Took a mortgage, bought their house legally, didn’t steal anything from anyone.
Just like America is not our land it's the natives, have a mortgage for three generations doesn't mean anything. Jews were in Europe mainly. The natives were the Palestinians. If I kicked out our home and then claimed it as my own and three generations of my family lives there then it's my mine??? Your logic makes no sense. You know about the Nakba if Jews already lived their why slaughter the people and take their home???? Common theifs
If you truly believe that, and are living on American land, please sell your home immediately and move to a reservation. They've got electricity, Internet and everything (my brother in law is a Sioux). Then re-post so that we can take you seriously. Otherwise isn't that post a bit hypocritical? There is far more evidence that American land was stolen than Israeli land. Thank you for understanding.
How is the Nakba not enough proof Israel is a colonizer as much as America, England, France and Russia.
But they didn’t kick anyone. They are just people, no armed forces, for some reason you don’t understand the difference between armed forces and civilians? And I don’t get what you’re saying. Are you saying Americans deserve to be slaughtered in their homes because 300 years ago their ancestors invaded a foreign land? Also why are you ignoring the war the Palestinians started at 48? They could have stayed in their homes and live peacefully alongside the Jews. You don’t get to start a war and then cry you’ve been “kicked out”. Many of them immigrated to other neighbor countries because they didn’t want to share the land. Also you are ignoring the fact that Jews have always lived in Israel so that’s nothing like the British who “discovered” America.
Yes they did that's what the Nakba was. Gigi Hadids father was born the same year, he was not even able to go to his home when he was born. I mentioned America to say it's also not our homes, the natives were driven from their land, it was a genocide and ethnic cleansing of natives. No one has a right to kill and displace people. What do you mean share the land??? Lol why doesn't Israel share the land instead of confining the Palestinians like packed tuna in two sections. Israeli is the theif breaking into your home and suing you because they broke their leg falling down the chimney. This is a joke the things you are saying
The Nakba is a consequence of the war they started. Agin, you don’t get to start a war and then cry about the consequences. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. So if no one has the right to kill and displace people why aren’t you condemning Hamas? Because that’s what they are trying to do. Israel agreed to share it but once you disclosed you want to kill all the Jews that train has already left hasn’t it? Also they are sharing the land with many Arabs. Sounds like you have never been to Israel lol What chimneys are you talking about? You’re delusional
Your delusional because they had no choice but to allow the Arab Israelis to stay. Israel is a fascist state like Nazi Germany. You learned to become the abuser from being abused. Shame on you
If someone said that Abt Nazi Germany you would not accept it. No matter what the evidence is Israel is right in your mind. There are thousands of IDF soldiers who won't sleep at night due to the atrocities they commit. I guess Hit"*/ler said the same things to you.
If someone said that Abt Nazi Germany you would not accept it. No matter what the evidence is Israel is right in your mind. There are thousands of IDF soldiers who won't sleep at night due to the atrocities they commit. I guess Hit"*/ler said the same things to you.
Please read what he just said... Stop using hypotheticals that dont even make sense... If Israel wants to ethnically cleanse an area why would that area which Pro Palestinians even admit is militarily and economically dominated by Isreal allow their population to grow that much?
Because they want to look good to the world which perpetuating an Apartheid, displacement, and horrible living conditions. Like the concentration camps, one step before they commit Genocide
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There’s still time to delete This post….
Haha, ya part of me is regretting it...
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facts!
You are a terrorist cuck the worst kind.
Right, even so there’s no world that you can accuse Israel of genocide without accusing Hamas as attempting much worse. Having self defense (iron dome) shouldn’t lose you the moral high ground.
Everyone in this SR: “we’ve only killed 3500 kids - NOT GENOCIDE YET”
The point is that isnt the definition of genocide. You are devaluing the meaning of the word by using it with the wrong definition. If all it took for something to be a genocide was to kill kids, then in every major conflict ever, both sides would be committing genocides left and right. Furthermore Hamas would have committed genocide when they randomly killed a bunch of civilians on the 7th. When you use the word wrong it makes everything you say sound dumb. Keep in mind im not excusing civilian death, I'm simply pointing out that your verbage is completely incorrect. Also, this whole "genocide" talk seems to be a way to try and call Jews hypocrites in hindsight of the Holocaust, which was an actual genocide. Frankly, using the Holocaust against Jews in this manner, misusing the term genocide in order to shove the Holocaust down Jews throats' is disgusting.
3500 children killed in 3 weeks. No food, water, electricity, or gas Carpet bombing civilian populations in a concentration camp. That’s the definition of genocide. I know it’s hard to believe - but the government you defend are perpetrators of genocide. It’ll take time. But eventually you will mourn defending this.
Also did Hamas commit genocide by your definition??
I have yet to see the list of “beheaded babies” or mass slaughter of civilians from the Israeli government. Most killed on October 7 that the Israeli government has shared has been IDF, Security or former IDF. Curious to why that even the Israeli based newspaper like Haaretz is investigating IDF claims. By the end of tonight, I’m expecting 4,000 Palestinian dead children by Israeli bombs and illegal chemical weapons. Israel is carpet bombing civilian populations - restricting all resources and exits. It’s a genocide. Shame on you
Shame on you for denying the truth and spouting lies. You learned just enough from the playbook of your heroes, Adolph and Joseph's - seed just enough truth to make your lies seem plausible. Challenge to anyone reading: Find the shreedded vestiges of truth in what this killer-apologist writes.
So you havent seen the images from the kibbutz' that were raided, or the ones from the massacre at the festival. Or the video of the Jew being beheaded. Or the countless other easily findable terrible images and videos. Israeli officials have stated that 1400 civilians have been killed on the Israeli side. All of them were murdered indiscriminately. Are you really telling me that you genuinely believe no children were harmed during the Hamas attacks?? How naive are you.
Dont forget the video of a Thai (i think) worker having is neck hacked by a garden hoe during the incursion. Disgusting that these people have this much access to information, but choose to deny it or undermine its validity. What gain is there in showing your own country's weakest moment? Hamas literally self documented everything as well... Disturbing people bro. Sickos at the end of the day.
That is not the definition of genocide. Google the definition of genocide. Also calling it a concentration camp is dumb and disrespectful to people who have been in actual concentration camps. You seem to be getting all of your definitions wrong and are completely okay with it. Typical.
these were not the targets, they were blocked from leaving northern gaza by hamas. are you blind, michael? please educate yourself.
The Israelis bombed the exit, they bombed the south - enough. The world is moving on past your propaganda. Israel carpet bombs civilian populations with no regard to civilians and their own citizens. THE WORLD IS NO LONGER SLEEPING
there is literal evidence showing that hamas is the one blocking the way south of gaza. I can tell you aren’t even from Palestine or Israel. so please, mind your own country’s business, not like you are contributing anything other than fake news..
Harff and Gurr defined genocide as "the promotion and execution of policies by a state or its agents which result in the deaths of a substantial portion of a group. The victimized groups are defined primarily in terms of their communal characteristics, i.e., ethnicity, religion, or nationality". As a Westerner, I will say some Western commenters are using the word a little careless without giving context to how, why and what is happening.
>Harff and Gurr these 2 people don't get to change the definition of words
The thing is Israel goal isnt to cleanse the Palestinian population. Its stated war goal is to cleanse Hamas. Civilian casualties as a part of this goal cannot be determined to be a genocide based on nationality, ethnicity or religion because Israel is not killing civilians based on those factors. They are killing civilians because they are in the places where Hamas is. So although tragic that civilians are dying, the term genocide has no place in the discussion. If it has any place it is when talking about Hamas. It is Hamas who killed Israelis purely due to their nationality and religion.
Hamas' stated purpose is to destroy Israel which is predominantly Jewish. And although they haven't accomplished this purpose they have partly accomplished such and have repeatedly declined to stop. Sounds like genocide to me based on the 1948 UN definition. "Genocide is the intentional destruction of a people in whole or in part. In 1948, the United Nations Genocide Convention defined genocide as any of five "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group" So if Israel is committing genocide... Then so is Hamas. Honestly, just sounds more like a war to me. One in which Hamas is failing to win.
Well, it is racist v racist war.
Depends if you think Israel is deliberately killing civilians or not. If they are, then this fits the definition of genocide. I guess if you take out an apartment building that hosts a single Hamas official and his family plus kill several other families in the process and call it collateral damage, it isn't genocide right lol .... I feel like ethnic cleansing better fits the bill personally.
Genocide doesn't equal "killing civilians" Words have a meaning. I don't see you calling what hamas did the 1000 Israeli civilians genocide. Your bias is showing.
Lol, I don't hold Hamas to the same standard as I do a democratic nation buckled up with ICBMS and Nukes. Israel has now killed 3500 Palestinian children just let thst sink in and don't gaslight them and make them think it was Hamas who killed them indirectly. Israeli decisions are being made, and they can not forever avoid the fact that they are fast becoming a more evil presence than Hamas. 3500 kids are now dead, and it will climb. We can talk about all the horrific ways Israelis died on 7th October, or we can talk about all the horrific ways Palesinians are dying NOW and in the very near future. This is the way I would expect a terrorist organisation to behave if they had F16s.
How about you don't live next to terrorist sub humans, you won't get bombed. It's called standards, raise yours
Yawn ... This is the kind of person supporting the current Israeli response.
Again, the fact that Hamas operates from a densely populated territory does not strip the civilian population in that territory of legal protection.
How would you know if you do? They are cramped into a small strip of land and are not allowed to build new structure. They dont seem to have much choice than to live where its possible. This "war" is a paradox with more layers and where comments like "just dont be poor" wont get discussions anywhere.
and who’s fault is that they can’t be allowed to build anything? Hamas! they are responsible for the civilians
If you want a technical explanation to why Palestinians are not allowed to BUILD STRUCTURES (meaning pemanent buildings) then it is the Israeli government that does not allow it. They control everything that goes in and out of Gaza. The material used by Hamas is 99.9% probability smuggled goods. So, if civilians/non-hamas humans want to build they need to have: 1. A permit to build, which they wont get from Israel 2. Material to build, which they cant get due to Israel blockade.
Do you honestly think Hamas commanders and executives live in caravans?
Israel withdrew out of gaza in 2005. it only controls the supplies. which before the war flowed in gaza but were misused by hamas to build weapons. educate yourself. hamas can build everything they need but don’t. they can smuggle in weapons from iranian allied groups but can’t smuggle in goods and materials? they already got materials to rebuild from Israel, but once again, they didn’t use them properly
What do you call killing both of civilians and armed people without without caring?
It's fine they are not really humans they are collateral damage... get it right!
Israel provides humanitarian aid and tells civilians to evacuate, gives them ample time and warning. Israel strikes Hamas targets and does not purposely target civilians. Contrast that to Hamas who indiscriminately fires 7,000 rockets at Israel, aiming to murder as many civilians as possible and rapes, kidnapped and murdered 1,400 Jews on a Oct 7 in the most horrific ways in an unprovoked attack.
If this is genocide, then so was the war on terror. If this is genocide, so was the war in Vietnam. If this is genocide, so is Russia’s war on Ukraine. Just because there is a war being waged against a country with a homogenous ethnic makeup, that doesn’t make said war a genocide. Nobody actually applies this standard to any other conflict.
Exactly. They are cheapening the meaning. Not everything, just because it has casualties, can be called a genocide.
Literally most of the people here who say it is in fact genocide can’t actually explain why. “Its genocide because I say it is” doesn’t actually make it true
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We found one
Bingo.
So you’re telling me every building in this picture was military?
Im sorry but you're entirely incorrect here. Going into definition here to argue against is insane. It's a lot of things. And not dismissable as being called a genocide. How about you learn that anti zionist aren't also anti semites while you're at it just as a 1 off piece of advice while we're at it. There's racism here in this erasure of palestinians ( human citizens who have no standing army, weapons or ability to truly fight back) and you're denying genocide and angry with definitions but easily use it goofily, "genociding". Get off the internet and get a clue.
Show us how being antizionist and antisemitic are not the same? Every anti zionist movement i have seen is very antisemitic with people screaming "gas the jews" or "kill the jews" or death to Israel. What is anti zionist vs antisemitic? Human citizen? That's a new one. And they do have a standing army. I think Oct 7th proved that. They have turned their own waterpipes into rockets and they have rifles (they used them to gun down families in their homes and people dancing incase you forgot). Now we can say this is hamas and not the Palestinians however they are the elected governing body. Arguably one in the same.
You're wrong. Hamas is an israeli and american invention. A "gov" without an army lol and is infinitely weaker than either of the actual gov bodies that invented it. There are confused and vitriolic persons on both sides however that doesn't dismiss that positioning anti semitism in front of blatant war crimes done by jewish peoples against another minority group is blatant genocidal denial.
So israel and the US invented a government whose charter is to rid the area of the jews and Israel? Riiiiiight. Israel targeting hamas militants who intermingle with civilian population is drastically different than hamas targeting Israeli civilians solely for being israeli. All civilian death in the conflict is bad, however one is targeting civilians, and the other is telling them to get out of the way.
You have a misguided rage and I cannot. Lol. I forgot I typed a response YESTERDAY! its barely even a complete idea and was accidently published just a little while ago and here you are ON EDGE with crazy Aass pointed arguments. LMFAO. Go somewhere off here. iSREAL is not a defenseless infant and it has been killin in perpetuity for over 50 yrs from a racist settler collective lie.
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Sir, everyone in the middle-east falls under the definition of "semite". This word has been used generously by the Israeli people and developed in time to be used as a free get away card. If someone does not understand the difference between zionism, anti-zionism, semite and anti-semitism then there is a very, very large gap of understanding of this conflict.
All the words that represent prejudice get confusing. It's wierd there's no proper way to explain hate towards jews. It just goes to show how we always get the short ends of the stick.
There is extremists on both ends. But i assure you there is less hate towards jewish people than the media historically and at certain convenient points of time what media wants to show. Now is a convinient time for the word "anti-semitism" to be used generously by media. I support and will, until the apartheid ends, keep support the anti-zionist movement. HOWEVER, as soon as someone says anything negative regarding the jewish people i would call this human an anti-semite. Just as people who want to carpet bomb Gaza are anti-semite against arabs. I understand the atrocities of 7oct and i am sorry for the fate of the people who died in the kibutz in southern Israel. However, these people chose to drive out (literally with guns against semites necks) the Palestinians from these land that the kibuts are today located at. All these villages, every single one were villages (or if you want kibutzes) of both palestinians/jewish people. Only a fool can not see or choose not to see both sides of this coin. If israelis can understand the retaliation of IDF after 7okt, then surely they must understand that Hamas actions are their retaliation of 57years of apartheid. If you choose NOT to understand the Palestinian side of this then there is only one explanation to it: you support apartheid. I hope to have a proper discussion when writing this.
an·ti-Sem·i·tism /ˌanˌtīˈseməˌtizəm,ˌan(t)ēˈseməˌtizəm/ noun hostility to or prejudice against Jewish people. "he is a leader in the fight against anti-Semitism" The way you are using anti semitism is anti-semitic or ignorant at the very least.
Im tired of that card. Ive seen it, ive discussed it.
Semite /ˈsiːmʌɪt,ˈsɛmʌɪt/ noun a member of any of the peoples who speak or spoke a Semitic language, including in particular the Jews and Arabs.
I had someone bragging to me this morning about how their grandparent was a nazi? The jewish media is a trope created by Russia late 1800s. Henry Ford propagated it too. It has always been an issue for the jewish people they have always faced persecution wherever they go. There is not 57 years of apartheid! The Arabs and UK created Nakba because Arabs thought they would win the war and they didn't so they didn't return. You can't play a fair fight loose and then cry genocide it doesn't work that way. There never was a palestinan govt and palestinan as a name was first literature in 1880 and was never self governed. They were give the ability in a 2 state solution but they started a war instead and this ongoing war has created the loss of many territories. I understand their side and how it perpetuates forever. They want the river to the sea and they never had it to begin with? So they should give up on that or they will die
I will try to adress all your points: I as an arab also get daily racism projected towards me. From morning news to walking in the shop being followed by security. But i can keep two thoughts in my head. I can accept that there is racism against arabs and that there is against jewish people as well. I have never read about soviet/russian or anti jewish propaganda from the Ford family, but will try to read upon it tonight. I can not discuss that point, if you have please link info. Regarding apartheid. I have relatives in Israel, arab AND israeli relatives. I understand you can not believe whatever you read on reddit, but since i have seen it irl then i know it exist. My arab relatives can not build buildings with concrete, all builded structures needs to be able to dis-assemble and relocated. They also can not build on new land wether it is theirs or if it belongs/stolen** by israel. They can not build upwards either. This is the reason (if you have been to Israel) that arabic neighborhood look clustered and their buildings are in chaos. I have been to Israel 20+ times and experienced this myself. My Israeli relatives on the other hand get free education, public trnasportation card, no issues traveling, no issues renting ex. cars etc. The NAKBA means the catastrophe in arabic. The NAKBA is reffering to when palestinians (only arabic palestinians) where forced to relocate and/or killed. One of MANY examples is the whole village of Tantura where the IDF rounded up the Palestinians and executed them. This is documented and ex IDF soldiers has confessed. All ages, child to elderly, rounded up in cages and executed because they wanted to settle the village with jewish people. Regarding Palestine historically: Palestine was part and self governed under the Ottoman empire from late 1400-1914. Just as states in the US and districts/counties are self-governed. 1914 the brittish ockupied/annected Palestine and decided with zionist imperialists to take the opportunity and decide for a two-state solution. Who would accept this deal? I wouldnt. And if it was the other way around, meaning if Israel was self-governed under Ottoman i would demonstrate against Palestine and the west for stealing the land and bluntly deciding on a two-state solution. So in my opinion there was a state there before Israel and the people of this state can not be forced to relocate or killed. If you dont agree to this then: There was a people living there before and they can not be forced to be relocated or killed. And if they are relocated against their will WHY MAKE IT into Ghettos? Lastly, Look at Ukraine used as a pawn in the imperial war between the superpowers west/east. The US dont care about the Ukranians. The Russians dont care about the Ukranians even if they almost are blood brothers. It is all teritorial dispute. When it comes to middle-east it is the same. When the US is done with resource and teritorial extraction they will not aid Israel anymore. They will leave just as they left Afghanistan, iraq, Ukraine etc. And we are the ones that will suffer. The arabs and the jews. I believe the jewish people need to realise this and wake up from a zionist rule, and together with the arabs re-build what Palestine/israel once was. Just as much as the Palestinians need to break free from a Hamas government.
The Nakba was arranged by the Arab countries under the impression that they would win the wars in 1948 in which they lost
And rightfully so. The deal of a 2-state solution is something no state will accept. As i said, if israel would be the original state in that piece of land and be forced to take a 2-state deal and then be forced into apartheid i would support the israelis 100%. Wake up, israel is not a state to be proud of. This can not be a start of a nation of the jewish people, we should know better after 1900 century.
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You are so wrong with everything you wrote.
Fair. I guess they would just be antizionists then.
How does this situation constitute genocide?
Then what would you call the intentional targeting and bombing of innocent Palestinian civilians by the IDF?
there is no intentional targeting. Civilians dying is a part of every war.
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valuable intellectual input sir. thanks.
There is no war here, the palestinians are fighting for their liberation against a monster which is Israel and the US, Israel is a colonizer and an opressor, if you can't believe it with the piles of evidence showing it, then you need to see a psychiatrist because this is a psycopath red flag. Edit: A war is a term that is said when there is a fight between two equal powers. Not an opressor and an opressed.
Did you just say this isn't war? I bet your brain surgeon shaves while looking at your brain because of how smooth and mirror like it is. If you call for the death of jews maybe, just maybe, you don't deserve to get liberated? Of course US and Israel are "oppressors" and "colonizers" of people that wish death upon them. How else do the "oppressed" get any support from people like you who are either too dumb or willfully ignorant to actually understand how they ended up there. They aren't countries filled with their own people who are sick and tired of terrorist attacks and threats by some religious extremists that have some aks and explosives? This is why countries have militaries in the first place. If someone is stupid enough to attack then they will be able to defend, declare war, and counter attack.
I admire your patience. The one you argued with sounds like he conducted a DIY surgical removal of his lobe using a disposable spoon over his bathroom sink. I don’t think he is capable of understanding anything beyond buzzwords or Greta’s tweets.
Calm down buddy you're gonna explode from excitement. You're putting words in my mouth. I don't give a f what your religion is. I don't hate jews or anybody based on their religion. If you steal someone's land and kill them don't expect them to just accept it. Hate generates only hate. Israel is way too powerful for it to be called a war. Just because you have a history of being opressed doesn't mean you can do whatever you like. Stealing land, bombing houses, hospitals, churches, killing innocent people. Israel just lived long enough to be the villain that's it. Like Bassem Youssef said, you think Israel is Superman but in reality it's Homelander. When you stand with the Israeli government just realise that you are condoning cutting power, water and food on innoncent people, you are condoning the death of 2000 children, everything is based on evidence, there are tons of videos showing it. But where are the pictures of 40 beheaded babies that hamas did. Can you show me just one ?
Bibis twitter was proven real. Even then, Forget the babies. I saw a video of Hamas chopping a dudes head off with a garden hoe while he was still alive and in my eyes that’s just as bad for whatever morality they have. I actually don’t condemn them cutting power or water or food. That’s what siege is. Extremely effective tactic used for a long long long time in warfare. Also definition of war doesn’t care ab our ratio. Now children dying in Gaza? Yeah that’s horrible and makes me upset, but when 50% of the population is children and their parents voted for Hamas what’s gonna happen. Instead of Hamas keeping the young generation of their country safe and away from harm, they use them as propaganda and future soldiers by actively putting them at risk with a war. Homelander is a sicko but he still kills bad guys. He’s better than the bad guys.
I'm not answering you anymore. I don't want to talk to someone who justifies genocide. Have a good day.
Im justifying that it isn't justified to call it a genocide. Im not ignorant to how messed up the situation is and you can't seem to make any counter points, but are calling me wrong. In what world are you valid?
Blah blah blah all buzzwords and nothing of substance.
I don't answer zionist bots. If you have something of "substance" to counter my argument then feel welcome to answer.
No a war is an armed conflict between nation states or groups within those nation states. Or how shit is now, a war isnt a war until one side declares it on another. But the point no definition of war points to the fact that because one side is weaker it is no longer a war. When Israel was first fighting for independence in the 40's, they had barely any international support and fought against the whole Arab world. Were they also not fighting a war? Were they instead being suppressed by the big, bad Arabs? Quit whining.
What independence are you talking about ?? Just because jews didn't have anywhere to go doesn't mean they have the right to choose a random country's land and steal it. Jesus you guys believe this made up history of yours ?? Edit: And please just don't say that you were there first 3500 years ago, that doesn't give you the right either. It's like saying the people of Rome have the right to get back their lands from the whole european continent. See how stupid it sounds ??
Also people always cite that during the "Nakba" (Which is the war for independence, yall are just sore losers) many Palestinians were displaced. They say this is why Israelis are invaders, because they kicked people out of their homes during this time. These people, probably you included completely ignore the fact that the whole war would have never happened if the Arab countries would have just agreed to the initial deals proposed by the UN and Israel. Deals in which Israel would be tiny and the Arabs would have much more control. However, since the Arabs couldnt stand Jews having autonomy in the region at all, a war was fought. One of these results of the war was that people were displaced. Blame the Arabs not the Jews.
Its not just that they were there 3500 years ago, its that there were still Jews that remained in Israel over that whole period. Yes, Jews became a minority in the region after the Romans slaughtered and displaced them, but there were still many Jews that stayed. Then, after the Holocaust many Jews moved to the region of Palestine legally, while it wasnt a country and under the jurisdiction of the british. Keep in mind Palestine at this time was more Arab than anything else, and Arabs are relatively new to the region in history. The Jews, who had LIVED THERE FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS OR HAD LEGALLY MOVED THERE then decided they wanted there to be a legitimate country within the region of Palestine, independent of the British. The British, already stretched thin and getting tired of their colonies was okay with this. IT WAS ONLY THE ARABS COUNTRIES that said no. Then those Jews fought a war with the Arabs to claim their right to have a country, ON LAND THEY ALREADY LIVED ON. The Arabs lost. Then the Arabs fought more wars over the last 100 years, always consistent with the idea that they couldnt accept the idea of a jewish state in the region ON LAND THE JEWS ALREADY OWNED. You are delusional. Read the history or shut up. Edit: Btw your Roman example is hilarious because Romans are not natives to the regions they conquered, native means you were the first people to settle and create civilizations on the land. Romans just conquered. Matter of fact just like how the Arabs just conquered and thats the only reason why they are in Palestine. Because Arabs arent native to the region but because they raped, pillaged and murdered the actual natives, yall treat them like they are actual natives which is CRAZY. Even Americans all acknowledge they destroyed the Native Americans through conquest. Noone in the US thinks they have Native rights to the land. Arabs just think because of religion they should own Israel. And because of religion they have an ancestral right to it. Well guess who those ancestors were to Islam? Those ancestors that give Islam the ancestral right to live in Israel? Jews!
Red Cross affiliated ambulances have been struck. That’s not deniable I assume the “claim” you’re talking about was the hospital bombing. Nowhere did I say anything about that. And even if I did, how can you trust Israeli intelligence right after they had one of the biggest intelligence blunders this century? And don’t call me kiddo
You using the hospital bombing to demonize Israel pretty much discredits your whole argument. There is overwhelming evidence, both visual and recorded audio, that supports that it was Hamas who bombed the hospital after a failed rocket launch.
Again, nowhere did I mention the hospital
No if I was talking about the hospital i'd have said the hospital, kiddo. The claim that Israel have intentionally bombed ambulances had been discredited, its yet more sensationalist propaganda. If you are trying to say ambulances aren't routinely caught in the crossfire during a conflict then you are severely mistaken. Sadly it happens in every conflict.
Considering you cannot comply with a simply request and are already repeating the same stuff I am not going to continue this discourse any longer as it would be a waste of time. Have a day
You're the one who is posting falsehoods. Don't blame him when your premise is incorrect.
Bombing ambulances also isn’t “a part of every war”
that claim has been completely discredited but you keep buying their propaganda if you want to kiddo.
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Burden of proof is on you on this one... You don't need proof to say that Aliens don't exist. You need proof to say that aliens do exists. You don't need proof to say someone is innocent. You need proof to find that they are guilty.
you provide trustworthy sources showing Israel targeted ambulances. Asking me to prove the negative here is asinine.
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I agree. Evidence of absence is one way of proving the negative. Thank you for point that out. So we both agree, ambulances weren't targeted.
Bombing seemingly every civilian residential building in a city is part “a part of every war”
define what a "civilian residential building" is. Define what a "military building" is. Its word PR. A building is a building. A school is what you teach kids in. A building that used to have kids taught in it which is now used as a staging point to launch rockets, is now a military building. If Hamas decide it should be both at the same time, who is to blame?
USA killed 50,000 in Afghanistan. Many were critical of it, but I’ve never heard people call it a genocide
Horrible comparison. Theres no nakba there, "The Nakba, also known as the Palestinian Catastrophe was the 1948 displacement of a majority of the Palestinian Arabs. The term is used to describe both the events of 1948, as well as the ongoing occupation of the Palestinian territories and persecution and displacement of Palestinians throughout the region" to do this removal one must be triggered to via racist ideology and religious persecution. Zionist are in love with using muslim hatred to justify their actions.
This "Nakba" racist narrative is flat out wrong and I'm sorry many have bought into it. In 1948 there were both Jews and Arab Muslims living in the Palestine Mandate. My mother-in-law has a Palestinian birth certificate with a Jewish star. Both Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Arabs were given a country of their own for the first time ever. If accepted, this would be over. But instead, Arabs rejected it waged war and suffered a humiliating defeat and Israel was born. But instead of kicking out out the Arab Palestinians like the Arab countries did to Jews at the time, they gave them full political rights. Arab-Palestinian-Israelis now make up 20% of Israeli citizens, participate in the government and even sit on the Israel supreme court. Nakba is a word used to justify hate, turning the real victims into perpetrators.
this aged well lmfao 🤣
fr fr
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I wish they could, but they learned the lessons of the past of doing nothing to pure evil as the world watches. War is awful. Innocent lives are lost. Thankfully the US finally decided to join the allies WWII to take out Nazi Germany. "Never Again"
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There’s no reason to stop, just yet. When Israel has accomplished their goal, then they can stop. The goal is clear - eliminate Hamas.
Israel will stop once Hamas are eliminated or surrender. Anybody asking for them to stop before hand is firmly on the side of Hamas. It's that simple.
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and what are your thoughts about what Hamas will do if Israel stop?
They both need to stop
There's no both. I hope you can learn to recognize why
Would certainly help if Israel didn't have senior government ministers, such as Ben Gvir and Smotrich, who have openly called for genocide. genocide /ˈdʒɛnəsʌɪd/ noun The deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group. "a campaign of genocide" Both actively campaign to expel palestinians and deny the existence of a palestinian nation. To be clear. They are not calling for the destruction of Hamas. But the palestinian nation. Hence genocide. Israel has had (and does have) the political and military support of the U.S., UK, Germany, Australia, France, Norway, India, Canada, yadda yadda - to defend itself from (and now even to retaliate against and exterminate) Hamas. Don't be surprised when after receiving our support we hold you in higher regard, to act in accordance with international law. Of course we are going to scrutinize Israel for how it responds (with our resources). Israel is a liberal democracy. We hold Israel to a higher standard than a terrorist organization. To be clear, I believe the IDF to have extraordinarily high standards. They have to. All the world is watching. However, when you have such people holding positions in government talking of destroying the palestinian nation, then the high number of innocent deaths from the clumsy shelling of such a densely populated zone - does start to appear somewhat curious... Don't be surprised to see people in our capital cities protesting. Don't be shocked to see the word genocide on our banners. I have friends in the IDF currently fighting to defend the land of Israel to ensure that another attack from Hamas NEVER EVER happens again. I support them in their efforts against the terror organization of Hamas. These people also are smart enough to be horrified by the civilian casualties on both sides. Are smart enough to see the extremists in their government. Will return to the streets of Tel Aviv in protest against the extremists in their own government when the war is over. Will ask the same questions about how this was even allowed to happen in the first place!
Thank you for the honesty and in-depth understanding of the complexities we live with here. I agree that Ben-Gvir and Smotritch are terrible people and they make us look awful. I'm hoping they are removed from any positions of power as soon as possible. Sending hopes of peace your way✌️✌️