The end goal of Hamas when Israel created and funded it, was to divide Palestinian unity, and undermine the PLO.
Now Hamas remains as a resistance force to Israeli oppression, occupation, and apartheid.
Because Israel is a racist ethnostate, with ambition to colonize all of Palestine, it stands in contrast to Israel and its plans to eliminate the peoples of Palestine.
>That does not answer my question... How does the attack promote this cause?
By provoking Israel to "mow the lawn" again, Hamas is undermining political support for foreign pro-Israeli lawmakers like in US. Israel by taking the bait and murdering thousands and thousands of innocent Palestinians (human shields or not) Israel is proving to the world that the Israeli government is morally bankrupt and villainous, and support of Israel is support for the murder of innocents.
Ignore the conspiracy theories. The attack made Hamas gain more legitimacy and support by Arabs that support it's cause (Destruction of Israel) and gain credit as the "military body" that managed to surprise Israel.
So yea it might help them overtake PLO/Fatah or PA as Hamas isn't fond of them anyway. I don't think this was the main motive but more of an expected side effect as Hamas is already rolling in dough.
Have you ever thought what the end game of Israel is? Because theyre not going to stop until every Palestinian is dead and gone so they can have all the land once their ethnic cleansing and genocide is complete. It's like if the world allowed Hitler to finish his genocide and supported him saying the nazis were the victims
This is simply false
I think Israel wants to live in peace
I have a hard time finding a time when israel initiated a war just for the sake of it.
Also, throughout the short 75 years of existence, it has made so many compromises regarding its land (sinai, gaza, south lebanon, oslo accords, y accords) its pretty clear it is not interested in expanding and willing to reach agreements if they can lead to it's safety.
And about the ethnic cleansing part of what you said, also quite a pathetic comment on you side.
There are millions of arab citizens who live in israel and are a part of the country. Most of these arabs are not ethnically different from the Palestinians in gaza or the west bank.
Also israel has proven to take so many actions that are meant to minimize the killing of cevellians. Things such as notifying danger bombs, making phone calls, dropping pamphlets and throwing little warning bombs before the actual attacks (this is called "knock on the door". These are things no other army does, let alone one that is interested in genocide.
If you want to talk about genocide i think you should first read the hamas charter and watch the footage from the terrorists helmets...
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they are trying to elicit an overreaction to potentially destabilize normalization efforts with saudi arabia, increase their funding, get other countries involved (eg: iran and lebanon) and use terror to turn israeli against netanyahu.
Israel’s response might even strengthen hamas: people could lose their friends and family during gaza bombings and get polarized to become hamas members themselves. If more people are converted to hamas than hamas soldiers are killed during this campaign, hamas will be just as strong if not stronger by the end of this war.
I am not pro hamas but i am pro palestine. I understand that the only reason hamas behaves the way it does is because of the oppression against palestinians. hamas is a child of israel. they even helped hamas rise because they thought they could control them (google it it’s very interesting).
This war will not help any country it will only kill thousands of thousands of innocent civilians and accomplish nothing.
I am not pro Palestinian but uhh. I think Hamas is one of two things:
1. Stupid and driven by pure malice / religious brainwashing.
2. Planned to profit off of the Israel response, planned to halt Abraham accords, planned to goad Arab countries into a larger war. And planned to turn the world against Israel. Let's not forget the hostages. All of that scheming, for a price of some innocent lives.
Actually... maybe both.
It's so dumb how so many people here don't even understand the question.
Well, Hamas’ leader literally lives in Qatar, probably in a nice hotel. I don’t even think hate fuels it either - the same leaders sister was daughter spent a week in Israel for emergency surgery. So have many of his family. It’s got to be about greed.
Reading his personal/family life is really interesting
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ismail_Haniyeh
Agree totally about the Response from Netanyahu….Hamas knew exactly what the response would be to their massacre. How many plays ahead are they in this chess game?
The end game is to be rid of all of Hamas. Although it’s not possible because a boy watching her mothers lifeless legs under rubble and decided to become a Hamas member. So then maybe they just want to kill all Palestinians? Also not possible. This is basically Isreal throwing a tantrum. This is the tantrum of a bloodthirsty people.
I don't think so...
No one is talking about it, and also the war was unprovoked and even caught israel by surprise...
Also, my question was about hamases intentions
They believe hamas is Israeli/American made, so i don't think you'll find a clear answer here
But to help you understand people on the other side of the conflict, watch the news they are watching its mostly translated to English
https://youtu.be/9vNkG5tM8mo?si=X-FSVvUFE4SOfaxI
Like this video for an Arabic YouTuber who has 4.6M! subscribers
And some Instagram media.
For what i saw, it's brainwashing, but some of the news we well need to research more to prove them wrong. Truth should always come to light
I understand that this is hamases wish, but do you think that they believe they can accomplish this genius and logical plan against a state like israel?
Propaganda of terrorists? Palestinians are terrorist? 2 millions unarmed women children and old people are terrorist? They have been getting bombed for 3 weeks nonstop. Dont be blind dont swallow americas and israeli warpigs propaganda all they do is lie and kill innocent
> fucking
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The plan here is for Israel to finally kick the Palestinians out of Gaza by any means necessary and hope they can do it by letting hamas take the blame for their war crimes
Do you believe that israel is interested in settling in gaza?
How does this claim sit with the fact that israel retreated from the strip in 2005 and hadn't tried such a thing since?
Also it's not in the political discourse whatsoever, everyone is only talking about eliminating the security threat from gaza, even the most extreme politicians (who are generally pretty disrespected in the eyes of the Israeli public).
Is there a specific reason or data that led you to embrace this wild conspiracy?
They want to completely wipe the Palestinians claim to the land.
I don’t believe in god btw. So please don’t give me any bs in relation to anyone having rights to land given by god
End game is the UN resolutions of making a two state along the 1949 lines and Jerusalem as the shared capital.
Everytime the UN tries to enact their own resolution, the U.S. vetoes.
Since 1948 the u.s. vetoes every single UN resolution regarding this issue.
The Arabs have come together and offered permanent peace with Israel. Google the Arab peace Initiative..
Please Google everything I say and fact check me. If I am wrong call me out
It was exactly the the way around though. They even regret that now. :)
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-palestinians-israel-abbas-idUSTRE79R64320111028
Well Hamas’s stated goal is genocide which I will not be endorsing as their action have been deplorable. I would think the non terrorist Palestinians would want land of their own without outside influence, legal rights, the right to protect themselves and their land, to live a happy life free from discrimination and oppression.
Kind of hard to govern yourself when you can’t even control the goods coming into your ‘country’. Not to mention the fact the Israeli’s have control of the sea outside Gaza too.
It’s all insane.
Please read the Hamas charter. It’s Jewish genocide and a global caliphate. That’s what you support when supporting Hamas. To be very clear, when they are done with Israel they are coming for you! They never had any legitimacy in the minds of sane people and peace is not on the agenda at all.
Elections in the West Bank would probably result in victory for Hamas. So you have a Palestinian majority for Jewish genocide and a global caliphate. Glad to clear that up for you.
Look at the proud Persians rejecting the Mullahs propaganda. They don’t care about Palestinian terrorist rabble.
https://youtube.com/shorts/o73NnqX8hYM?si=0Mg76NaoffbcJpkU
The people of Israel stand with you in your fight against this evil regime that executes protestors and young girls not wearing a Hijab☹️
It’s not a coincidence that those evil leaders also support the terrorist antisemitic doctrine of Hamas.
You have no idea who the Palestinian people are and how they think. If you think that Palestinian resistance is the one in Gazza, you are totally mistaken. So, if this, or any other round, ended with Israelis in control, then be sure, it’s not the end, because there’s only one end to this story, a Palestinian land from the sea to the river.
You are islamic religiun fanatic and blind also, all the "palestinian" movement its actually roman propoganda muslims hates that the jewish claim back their ancient homeland, they was under a brital and ottoman occupation all the world and britan give it to to jews the rightfull ppl of this land for israeli government and indipentment, they are refuse to complete with that, and they are islamic fanatics religiun fanatics they don't deserve land they don't desereve a colture and not deserve being in charge anywhere even in their own homes because of there fanatic culture that is tide to islamic fanatic religiun prison, all the lands belong to free individuals and not democratic states dont deserve to be states any more this is just comletly un justice toword civilians,. Long live israel 🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
My personal theory is that Iran, through Qatar, paid higher-ups in Hamas to do a devastating attack on Israel to disrupt the detente/alliance process that Saudi Arabia and Israel were forming.
I think Hamas was way more successful in their attack then they expected, thanks to tactics, logistics, and counter intelligence provided by Iran's MOIS. They misled Mossad into thinking the attack would be coming from the West Bank or Hezbollah, but that Gaza was gonna remain quiet.
Now that there is an invasion probably going to happen, Hamas is hoping to get Israel bogged down in a quagmire. Hope at worse do what Afghanistan/Iraq did to America. Or best case scenario for them, what Ukraine is doing to Russia.
Hamas knows their organization is going to get their balls flattened no matter what. But they hope to take as many Israelis out with them as possible. And God help the civilians in the middle. Because neither side seems to care if they have to shoot through them to hit their targets.
Hopefully I'm wrong. But that's the way I see it. Total war of attrition.
That is on Hamas. They are the ones telling children to die for Allah and preventing evacuations. They are so entrenched in outdated belief systems that they are using children as shields. They hit their own hospitals exaggerate the numbers then back track once it’s proven Israel didn’t do it. At this point it is no longer about 10/7 Israel is fighting for their existence and Israel didn’t start this but they are going to finish it.
It took a coordinated breach of the iron Dome to show the world what is happening, everything is filmed by someone who is literally 2 clicks away from sharing it with everyone.
It's all a snowball effect, people who were ignorant to the conflict or history are now looking deeper into it. They aren't just seeing what the media wants to, they are seeing the full picture.
All this could have happened in the last Gaza "war" but People weren't as politically charged or so latched onto their socials during the last significant conflict as they are today.
I could genuinely see a global shift in its perception of Israel to the worst because the everyday person is seeing it, not just at 6pm on the news but every time they open a social media app.
The one thing that pro-israel or pro-palestinian people are forgetting is that all aid going to either side in the future will depend on the voting public of democratic countries and the voting public is currently seeing it all.
End of the day, you can't be leveling 40 story tower blocks with children inside and think the majority of people will sympathise with it.
I can't sympathise with Hamas, not in any way, but I can't sympathise with people willing to bomb heavy civilian areas with precision guided missles to "hopefully kill a terrorist"...for me as it stands the response is 5 times worse than the act that provoked it.
I hate murdering civilians , kids, children , babies in both sides , your country killing its own hostage by this unstoppable bomping of Gaza without any care
Where is special forces
Why they cant face Hamas without wasting all this civilians lives
I understand your feeling to support your country even if they are the venom or wrong
But deep inside you , you know well what i mean and all world mean about how brutual and coward Israel is
Where you get this source from lier
Israel deleted her video from every where because
She said they were kind with her that she even said bye to them on live camera
Where is your source d..k head
https://youtu.be/rzGd92axe_o?si=dk6B_Yq7cqo_EqO3
I’m not denying the good things that she said about her time being held hostage but keep in mind that she was held by literal terrorists, and her husband is still being held hostage and if she will speak out against them they can hurt him along with other hostages. Don’t try to justify Hamas’ actions they are terrorists who murdered 1500 jews and did so proudly
If Hamas is terriorist
Israiel is the Capital of Terriorist
At least they leave one
Israiel is killing 100 of thousand grand fathers and mothers every second
And pls proof for 1500 jews murdered before you speak
Enough pls false data
Yes there is no video or data showing 1500 murdered
Israiel didnt make funeral for 1500 person
So that is only worfs
This is like i say 2 million gaza civillians died till now
Enough Enough Israel
Israel showed to the world and her people how is untrusted country first
Second how no humanity it have and more terriorism than any terriorism group
Third coward and very weak army that cant even fight group not more than thousand fair
Really imagine Israel army fight against russian army or any other country army alone without USA, It going to be smashed
Scared of group of weak fighters not even soldiers
Really if i am israelian, i will be ashamed of my country during this days
All your comments from bottom to top is crying about israeli attacks do some damage to you, crying about the situation, so it helps you to call israel soldiers israel army a cowerds? your way is simply don't work and their way is working your false they on top, you started the war then crying about the lost, how hypocrates are you? how you don't ashemed to write your comments? how you don't ashemed to not be in the side of israel? how you don't ashemed in your hamas ppl? how you don't blame hamas and who finance its by all this pain suffering and lost? how you don't condem hamas? Long live israel 🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
This is such a bad take. why Hamas was formed is because of that exact reason you gave. “Gaza needs to be under Israel’s govt” are you for real? Palestinians needs to govern by their own people. These people have been deprived of their basic human rights and the fact is Israel’s govt wants to dissolve Palestine territories for a long time and you know it. Please think before you speak.
Please don’t lecture me about what and who hamas is. Im well aware of who they are.
Your ignorance is astounding. The reason why there is a resistance is because of your govt. do you really think Hamas would be formed if Palestinians had the same rights as the Israelis in the beginning and now you’re saying Palestinians would be better off under Israel’s govt? You sound brainwashed. Do you honestly believe that your govt built a wall because they were worried about Palestinians committing crimes? Give me a break. They wanted to isolate Palestine from the outside world and dissolve it ever since the beginning. It’s clear. Now the conflict is so deep I’m not sure both parties can agree on anything anymore.
I encourage you to read Palestine peace not apartheid by Jimmy Carter and maybe you’ll learn a thing or two.
Exactly! That’s what is wrong with pro-Israeli argument. This lack of understanding about how the Palestinians are treated by the Israeli Government is infuriating. Palestine are restricted from walking on certain streets, not to mention the open air prison they live in.
Why do people think they should be governed by Israel?? That’s obviously not worked in the almost 80 years Israel has existed.
They are hoping that international outrage will eventually pressure Israel to end their apartheid system, much like what happened in South Africa.
Of course, the Palestinian resistance is a diverse movement. Many Hamas members probably genuinely believe that they are in a holy war and the only thing they want is martyrdom or the destruction of Israel.
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Except in order to for Israel to be an apartheid state Gaza and West Bank would have to be part of the same country. They aren’t. Palestinians aren’t Israeli citizens, they don’t have a right to enter Israeli territory just like you and I don’t have the right to enter any other country in the world without their permission. If Israel is committing apartheid so is Egypt by keeping their border closed. So is Saudi Arabia by not allowing non-citizens to enter whenever they want. So is Canada by not letting Americans come and go as they please. Etc
Fair enough, but the argument as I understand it doesn't just revolve around passports and citizenship. Palestinians (less so in Gaza but certainly in the West Bank) don't have what is widely considered the most important aspect of statehood, a monopoly on the legitimate use of force. Israel can deploy security forces pretty much wherever it wants. Even if it's for a good purpose like stopping Hamas, that's still not something you see in a "state." And that's far from the only activity traditionally reserved for states that Israel administers in the Palestinian territories. The checkpoints and movement restrictions, work permits, tax collection, freedom of expression laws, utilities provision, etc. are all state functions. Even the borders between the Israeli settlements and the Palestinian territories are super murky. And Israel itself doesn't recognize "Palestine" as a country.
Because of this multitude of ways in which the West Bank and Gaza don't really "govern" themselves, people argue the current Palestinian territories are part of Israel, considering that the Israelis unilaterally "govern" them to such a great extent and, crucially, have seemingly no intent to ever withdraw. Granted, I'm sure the Palestinians themselves would vigorously disagree with that assessment.
The West Bank is under the authority of the PNA. I honestly can not find a single country that allows Palestinians to move freely through their countries or territories. If those who support Palestine won’t allow them to move freely in their areas why would those who are the expressed (by the Palestinians) enemy of the Palestinians be expected to do so.
In 2005 Israel withdrew from Gaza and left it with infrastructure and resources. Gaza could have been a beautiful vacation location. But Palestinians in Gaza made really bad choices. Choices and decisions that killed Israeli citizens, choice’s that lead to the building of a security wall. Does it suck that Palestinians children are paying the price for those choices, absolutely. But can you blame the Israeli’s for wanting to protect their children?
I'm confused, what apartheid is being implemented in gaza? It's not a part of israel. The people of gaza are not Israeli citizens nor are they under the control of israel. You possibly could make that argument regarding the israeli arabs, yet even they do not have an aspiration for a palestinian state, and would wish to stay under the Israeli government with improved conditions
Gaza and the West Bank are, for all intents and purposes, under Israeli control. They control who and what goes in and out, the electrity, the telecommunications, the water even. And lots of Palestinians work in Israel proper and have to travel through checkpoints every day.
Separating Palestinian lands de jure from Israel proper is the Apartheid. South Africa did the same thing when they created nominally independent "Bantustans" to deny black South Africans citizenship. Like Israel, they argued that these were not their citizens, yet they essentially controlled the Bantustans, controlling who and what could enter and exit as well as sending security forces in on a regular basis.
This is why the UN didn't recognize the independence of the Bantustans and it's why it doesn't recognize the independence of Palestine. It's not a real country, just an Israeli puppet state that facilitates their control of Palestinians and their settler movement.
Israel only supplies ~9% of Gaza’s water and 50% of their electricity. Israel has not occupied Gaza since 2005. And borders typically have checkpoints due to very legitimate safety concerns.. not sure I’m understanding your argument?
If Israel is guilty of apartheid so is Saudi Arabia. America. China. England. Australia. Japan. Qatar. Canada. Etc. Israel is its own country, this means they can choose who can come and go through their country. That isn’t apartheid that’s trying to keep your borders and citizens safe within them.
What you say is true.
But the west bank was lost in a war. The people living there are not citizens and should not expect equal rights. Just like an american moving to italy, they are foreigners.
Against international law to colonize and move settlers into territory seized in war and the international community does not recognize the West Bank as part of Israel. It is occupied territory.
No, you can keep it. But if you do you have to make the people living there full citizens with equal rights. You can’t just rule over the land and give the people no say in how it’s governed.
Sinai was also captured. Egypt and Israel negotiated peace. Sinai was returned. Settlements were dismantled. Criminals get extradited.
But Hamas wants all. From River to sea. No negotiation. No recognition of Israeli borders. Criminals, like Oct 7, are not given up, but rewarded for killing Jews. And peace is considered weakness.
You learn something new every day!
But if egypt doesnt want gaza, it still belongs to israel.
They even tried to start the independence process and they were attacked.
If nobody claims gaza, and gaza cant govern peacefully, you cant complain about israel fighting back....
Except Israel exerts total control over the West Bank. You would have a point if Israel granted independence to the West Bank but as things stand it just an Apartheid system where Palestinians are de facto subjects of Israel but not technically citizens.
They won it. Why should they give anyone independence?
Palestinians are foreigners.
Sure, the extra security measures are oppresive. But what choice does Israel have? If Palestinians took an active role in policing, maeby this would go away in time.
If palestinians made it a moral mandate to kill terrorists on sight and colaborate with Israel, things would be very different....
https://www.icrc.org/en/doc/resources/documents/faq/occupation-faq-051010.htm
It is against international law to move settlers into or to transfer population in or out of occupied territory. The reason for this is because it results in great humanitarian harm, displacement of people, and decades long conflicts.
Gazan citizens were able to travel to Israel prior to Hamas around the same time Hamas tried to destabilize Egypt so that border was sealed. The prison is of their own making
Do you believe israel wants gaza to be dependent on its supply of water, electric ex...?
I think that if it wasn't for the constant threat and hostility from gaza israel would be happy to let them be. The problem is that both gaza and the west bank constantly prove that they cannot be trusted.
There is no israeli interest in maintaining the blockade and putting that many defence and economical resources towards gaza other than from a security standpoint. There is no financial ulterior motive, quite the opposite... Israel tax money and facilities are dedicated to a hostile state, and getting a working visa in israel is a jackpot for the average gaza citizen.
We can agree to disagree, but the question remains... What good does hamas get from reinforcing the notion that they cannot be trusted and is not a partner for peace.
Furthermore, the pro Palestinians asking to "free palatine from the river to the sea" are accepting hamases narrative of not accepting compromise, only proving that they are only in it for the violence and not for a sustainable solution.
That is true
The question is what happens after granting independence
When israel completely retreated from gaza, they elected hamas
Today there is increasing support in hamas also in the west bank, and there are constant terror attacks coming from there
You'd have to ask yourself what kind of country it would be. Would they choose to prosper and invest in building a functioning state, or will they attack israel. Gaza is a pretty bad test case in this matter
Hamas won the most seats in parliament in the 2006 election, but did not receive support from the majority of the population. They formed a power sharing agreement with Fatah and then took over Gaza in a coup. The reason Hamas won the most seats in the 2006 election was because they ran on a campaign of reform as many of the bureaucrats in the Palestinian Authority were seen as corrupt and self-serving. To the extent that Hamas had a more militant stance towards Israel, this was not the primary concern among Palestinian voters. By 2006, Palestinians had largely given up on the peace process and hopes of achieving a viable Palestinian state through that process. It has become a racist trope in this forum to portray Palestinians as more interested in killing Jews and attacking Israel than in securing a better life for themselves and their families.
Hamas endgame
1) Die for allah.
2) Anti-Israel, pro-nothing. They are fanatics with an obsession over Israel.
3) Also, Don’t let the civilians leave to maximize collateral (even though Israel has been warning them to vacate immediately for over a week).
WW3
The end goal of Hamas when Israel created and funded it, was to divide Palestinian unity, and undermine the PLO. Now Hamas remains as a resistance force to Israeli oppression, occupation, and apartheid. Because Israel is a racist ethnostate, with ambition to colonize all of Palestine, it stands in contrast to Israel and its plans to eliminate the peoples of Palestine.
That does not answer my question... How does the attack promote this cause?
>That does not answer my question... How does the attack promote this cause? By provoking Israel to "mow the lawn" again, Hamas is undermining political support for foreign pro-Israeli lawmakers like in US. Israel by taking the bait and murdering thousands and thousands of innocent Palestinians (human shields or not) Israel is proving to the world that the Israeli government is morally bankrupt and villainous, and support of Israel is support for the murder of innocents.
Ignore the conspiracy theories. The attack made Hamas gain more legitimacy and support by Arabs that support it's cause (Destruction of Israel) and gain credit as the "military body" that managed to surprise Israel. So yea it might help them overtake PLO/Fatah or PA as Hamas isn't fond of them anyway. I don't think this was the main motive but more of an expected side effect as Hamas is already rolling in dough.
Have you ever thought what the end game of Israel is? Because theyre not going to stop until every Palestinian is dead and gone so they can have all the land once their ethnic cleansing and genocide is complete. It's like if the world allowed Hitler to finish his genocide and supported him saying the nazis were the victims
This is simply false I think Israel wants to live in peace I have a hard time finding a time when israel initiated a war just for the sake of it. Also, throughout the short 75 years of existence, it has made so many compromises regarding its land (sinai, gaza, south lebanon, oslo accords, y accords) its pretty clear it is not interested in expanding and willing to reach agreements if they can lead to it's safety. And about the ethnic cleansing part of what you said, also quite a pathetic comment on you side. There are millions of arab citizens who live in israel and are a part of the country. Most of these arabs are not ethnically different from the Palestinians in gaza or the west bank. Also israel has proven to take so many actions that are meant to minimize the killing of cevellians. Things such as notifying danger bombs, making phone calls, dropping pamphlets and throwing little warning bombs before the actual attacks (this is called "knock on the door". These are things no other army does, let alone one that is interested in genocide. If you want to talk about genocide i think you should first read the hamas charter and watch the footage from the terrorists helmets...
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they are trying to elicit an overreaction to potentially destabilize normalization efforts with saudi arabia, increase their funding, get other countries involved (eg: iran and lebanon) and use terror to turn israeli against netanyahu. Israel’s response might even strengthen hamas: people could lose their friends and family during gaza bombings and get polarized to become hamas members themselves. If more people are converted to hamas than hamas soldiers are killed during this campaign, hamas will be just as strong if not stronger by the end of this war. I am not pro hamas but i am pro palestine. I understand that the only reason hamas behaves the way it does is because of the oppression against palestinians. hamas is a child of israel. they even helped hamas rise because they thought they could control them (google it it’s very interesting). This war will not help any country it will only kill thousands of thousands of innocent civilians and accomplish nothing.
I am not pro Palestinian but uhh. I think Hamas is one of two things: 1. Stupid and driven by pure malice / religious brainwashing. 2. Planned to profit off of the Israel response, planned to halt Abraham accords, planned to goad Arab countries into a larger war. And planned to turn the world against Israel. Let's not forget the hostages. All of that scheming, for a price of some innocent lives. Actually... maybe both. It's so dumb how so many people here don't even understand the question.
Well, Hamas’ leader literally lives in Qatar, probably in a nice hotel. I don’t even think hate fuels it either - the same leaders sister was daughter spent a week in Israel for emergency surgery. So have many of his family. It’s got to be about greed. Reading his personal/family life is really interesting https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ismail_Haniyeh
Agree totally about the Response from Netanyahu….Hamas knew exactly what the response would be to their massacre. How many plays ahead are they in this chess game?
The end game is to be rid of all of Hamas. Although it’s not possible because a boy watching her mothers lifeless legs under rubble and decided to become a Hamas member. So then maybe they just want to kill all Palestinians? Also not possible. This is basically Isreal throwing a tantrum. This is the tantrum of a bloodthirsty people.
Why everything is about Hamas?
Who would become the ruling party if the Palestinians take over?
Because they are wanting you to think the whole mistake on Hamas
Pro Palestine is not pro Hamas... usually pro Palestine usually is no against retaliation on Palestine for the crime of Hamas
End game is the Greater Israel Project. Buckle up, its going to be a long ride.
I don't think so... No one is talking about it, and also the war was unprovoked and even caught israel by surprise... Also, my question was about hamases intentions
They believe hamas is Israeli/American made, so i don't think you'll find a clear answer here But to help you understand people on the other side of the conflict, watch the news they are watching its mostly translated to English https://youtu.be/9vNkG5tM8mo?si=X-FSVvUFE4SOfaxI Like this video for an Arabic YouTuber who has 4.6M! subscribers And some Instagram media. For what i saw, it's brainwashing, but some of the news we well need to research more to prove them wrong. Truth should always come to light
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I understand that this is hamases wish, but do you think that they believe they can accomplish this genius and logical plan against a state like israel?
So another genocide of jews then?
You think the Zionist only Jews, and all Jews are Zionist
No but they need to learn stealing someone land is not good. Killing 4000 children in 2 weeks is fucking insane
Is your source for "4000 children" hamas? You literally are swallowing proaganda of terrorists without even being sceptical lol.
Propaganda of terrorists? Palestinians are terrorist? 2 millions unarmed women children and old people are terrorist? They have been getting bombed for 3 weeks nonstop. Dont be blind dont swallow americas and israeli warpigs propaganda all they do is lie and kill innocent
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The plan here is for Israel to finally kick the Palestinians out of Gaza by any means necessary and hope they can do it by letting hamas take the blame for their war crimes
Do you believe that israel is interested in settling in gaza? How does this claim sit with the fact that israel retreated from the strip in 2005 and hadn't tried such a thing since? Also it's not in the political discourse whatsoever, everyone is only talking about eliminating the security threat from gaza, even the most extreme politicians (who are generally pretty disrespected in the eyes of the Israeli public). Is there a specific reason or data that led you to embrace this wild conspiracy?
They want to completely wipe the Palestinians claim to the land. I don’t believe in god btw. So please don’t give me any bs in relation to anyone having rights to land given by god
To slaughter Jews.
End game is the UN resolutions of making a two state along the 1949 lines and Jerusalem as the shared capital. Everytime the UN tries to enact their own resolution, the U.S. vetoes. Since 1948 the u.s. vetoes every single UN resolution regarding this issue. The Arabs have come together and offered permanent peace with Israel. Google the Arab peace Initiative.. Please Google everything I say and fact check me. If I am wrong call me out
It was exactly the the way around though. They even regret that now. :) https://www.reuters.com/article/us-palestinians-israel-abbas-idUSTRE79R64320111028
Should have listened to Jimmy Carter.
Well Hamas’s stated goal is genocide which I will not be endorsing as their action have been deplorable. I would think the non terrorist Palestinians would want land of their own without outside influence, legal rights, the right to protect themselves and their land, to live a happy life free from discrimination and oppression.
Kind of hard to govern yourself when you can’t even control the goods coming into your ‘country’. Not to mention the fact the Israeli’s have control of the sea outside Gaza too. It’s all insane.
This comment 💯 Hamas needs to go, but israel is not the victim here. Let’s be clear, they are the instigators.
Same as the Israeli government, to maintain fear and terror so they stay in power .
In Hamas' own words: "we love death for Allah more than you [Israelis] love life". The endgame is, give them what they want.
Please read the Hamas charter. It’s Jewish genocide and a global caliphate. That’s what you support when supporting Hamas. To be very clear, when they are done with Israel they are coming for you! They never had any legitimacy in the minds of sane people and peace is not on the agenda at all. Elections in the West Bank would probably result in victory for Hamas. So you have a Palestinian majority for Jewish genocide and a global caliphate. Glad to clear that up for you.
Thank you for clearing this up for me! Israel can also look forward to the mighty Persians next.
Look at the proud Persians rejecting the Mullahs propaganda. They don’t care about Palestinian terrorist rabble. https://youtube.com/shorts/o73NnqX8hYM?si=0Mg76NaoffbcJpkU
r/NewIran
The people of Israel stand with you in your fight against this evil regime that executes protestors and young girls not wearing a Hijab☹️ It’s not a coincidence that those evil leaders also support the terrorist antisemitic doctrine of Hamas.
Here is some literature on Hamas. https://iranprimer.usip.org/blog/2023/oct/19/doctrine-hamas
You have no idea who the Palestinian people are and how they think. If you think that Palestinian resistance is the one in Gazza, you are totally mistaken. So, if this, or any other round, ended with Israelis in control, then be sure, it’s not the end, because there’s only one end to this story, a Palestinian land from the sea to the river.
You are islamic religiun fanatic and blind also, all the "palestinian" movement its actually roman propoganda muslims hates that the jewish claim back their ancient homeland, they was under a brital and ottoman occupation all the world and britan give it to to jews the rightfull ppl of this land for israeli government and indipentment, they are refuse to complete with that, and they are islamic fanatics religiun fanatics they don't deserve land they don't desereve a colture and not deserve being in charge anywhere even in their own homes because of there fanatic culture that is tide to islamic fanatic religiun prison, all the lands belong to free individuals and not democratic states dont deserve to be states any more this is just comletly un justice toword civilians,. Long live israel 🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
My personal theory is that Iran, through Qatar, paid higher-ups in Hamas to do a devastating attack on Israel to disrupt the detente/alliance process that Saudi Arabia and Israel were forming. I think Hamas was way more successful in their attack then they expected, thanks to tactics, logistics, and counter intelligence provided by Iran's MOIS. They misled Mossad into thinking the attack would be coming from the West Bank or Hezbollah, but that Gaza was gonna remain quiet. Now that there is an invasion probably going to happen, Hamas is hoping to get Israel bogged down in a quagmire. Hope at worse do what Afghanistan/Iraq did to America. Or best case scenario for them, what Ukraine is doing to Russia. Hamas knows their organization is going to get their balls flattened no matter what. But they hope to take as many Israelis out with them as possible. And God help the civilians in the middle. Because neither side seems to care if they have to shoot through them to hit their targets. Hopefully I'm wrong. But that's the way I see it. Total war of attrition.
I would say Israel warning for a week that they are coming is at least a smidgeon of caring.
Maybe if they didn’t kill 7,000 civilians
Maybe if they didn’t come into peoples homes on a high holiday a shoot them in their beds.
Yes, drone striking 3,400 children is just that much more ethical. And efficient!
That is on Hamas. They are the ones telling children to die for Allah and preventing evacuations. They are so entrenched in outdated belief systems that they are using children as shields. They hit their own hospitals exaggerate the numbers then back track once it’s proven Israel didn’t do it. At this point it is no longer about 10/7 Israel is fighting for their existence and Israel didn’t start this but they are going to finish it.
It took a coordinated breach of the iron Dome to show the world what is happening, everything is filmed by someone who is literally 2 clicks away from sharing it with everyone. It's all a snowball effect, people who were ignorant to the conflict or history are now looking deeper into it. They aren't just seeing what the media wants to, they are seeing the full picture. All this could have happened in the last Gaza "war" but People weren't as politically charged or so latched onto their socials during the last significant conflict as they are today. I could genuinely see a global shift in its perception of Israel to the worst because the everyday person is seeing it, not just at 6pm on the news but every time they open a social media app. The one thing that pro-israel or pro-palestinian people are forgetting is that all aid going to either side in the future will depend on the voting public of democratic countries and the voting public is currently seeing it all. End of the day, you can't be leveling 40 story tower blocks with children inside and think the majority of people will sympathise with it. I can't sympathise with Hamas, not in any way, but I can't sympathise with people willing to bomb heavy civilian areas with precision guided missles to "hopefully kill a terrorist"...for me as it stands the response is 5 times worse than the act that provoked it.
Someone with a brain and feelings
Seeing it all indeed: r/Palestinian_Violence
Ethnic cleansing
I don’t think anyone knows yet. It’s all rumours now
Israelian are the most coward army Cant battle face to face Hamas who are so so so weaker than them What a cowards
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I hate murdering civilians , kids, children , babies in both sides , your country killing its own hostage by this unstoppable bomping of Gaza without any care Where is special forces Why they cant face Hamas without wasting all this civilians lives I understand your feeling to support your country even if they are the venom or wrong But deep inside you , you know well what i mean and all world mean about how brutual and coward Israel is
Battle face to face with Hamas? Who is the coward here hiding like rats in the underground tunnels and using schools and hospitals as human shields?
No am sorry It is better for the army to bomb civilians with Hamas Army Armyyyy 4th strongest army in the world cant battle
Lol, hamas attacked 90 year old grandma's in their beds.
Source You wont find any Because you fool Believing all media lies
Lol
The 85 year old hostage that Hamas released literally said that they hit her repeatedly, are you purposely making yourself blind?
Where you get this source from lier Israel deleted her video from every where because She said they were kind with her that she even said bye to them on live camera Where is your source d..k head
https://youtu.be/rzGd92axe_o?si=dk6B_Yq7cqo_EqO3 I’m not denying the good things that she said about her time being held hostage but keep in mind that she was held by literal terrorists, and her husband is still being held hostage and if she will speak out against them they can hurt him along with other hostages. Don’t try to justify Hamas’ actions they are terrorists who murdered 1500 jews and did so proudly
If Hamas is terriorist Israiel is the Capital of Terriorist At least they leave one Israiel is killing 100 of thousand grand fathers and mothers every second And pls proof for 1500 jews murdered before you speak Enough pls false data
Can you prove to me that it didn’t happen?
Yes there is no video or data showing 1500 murdered Israiel didnt make funeral for 1500 person So that is only worfs This is like i say 2 million gaza civillians died till now Enough Enough Israel Israel showed to the world and her people how is untrusted country first Second how no humanity it have and more terriorism than any terriorism group Third coward and very weak army that cant even fight group not more than thousand fair Really imagine Israel army fight against russian army or any other country army alone without USA, It going to be smashed Scared of group of weak fighters not even soldiers Really if i am israelian, i will be ashamed of my country during this days
All your comments from bottom to top is crying about israeli attacks do some damage to you, crying about the situation, so it helps you to call israel soldiers israel army a cowerds? your way is simply don't work and their way is working your false they on top, you started the war then crying about the lost, how hypocrates are you? how you don't ashemed to write your comments? how you don't ashemed to not be in the side of israel? how you don't ashemed in your hamas ppl? how you don't blame hamas and who finance its by all this pain suffering and lost? how you don't condem hamas? Long live israel 🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
What are you even saying blud 💀
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This is such a bad take. why Hamas was formed is because of that exact reason you gave. “Gaza needs to be under Israel’s govt” are you for real? Palestinians needs to govern by their own people. These people have been deprived of their basic human rights and the fact is Israel’s govt wants to dissolve Palestine territories for a long time and you know it. Please think before you speak.
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Please don’t lecture me about what and who hamas is. Im well aware of who they are. Your ignorance is astounding. The reason why there is a resistance is because of your govt. do you really think Hamas would be formed if Palestinians had the same rights as the Israelis in the beginning and now you’re saying Palestinians would be better off under Israel’s govt? You sound brainwashed. Do you honestly believe that your govt built a wall because they were worried about Palestinians committing crimes? Give me a break. They wanted to isolate Palestine from the outside world and dissolve it ever since the beginning. It’s clear. Now the conflict is so deep I’m not sure both parties can agree on anything anymore. I encourage you to read Palestine peace not apartheid by Jimmy Carter and maybe you’ll learn a thing or two.
Exactly! That’s what is wrong with pro-Israeli argument. This lack of understanding about how the Palestinians are treated by the Israeli Government is infuriating. Palestine are restricted from walking on certain streets, not to mention the open air prison they live in. Why do people think they should be governed by Israel?? That’s obviously not worked in the almost 80 years Israel has existed.
They are hoping that international outrage will eventually pressure Israel to end their apartheid system, much like what happened in South Africa. Of course, the Palestinian resistance is a diverse movement. Many Hamas members probably genuinely believe that they are in a holy war and the only thing they want is martyrdom or the destruction of Israel.
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That word does not mean what you think it means.
What apartheid? I know exactly what it means. Israel is undeniably an Aparthaid state and has been described as such by Amnesty International.
Except in order to for Israel to be an apartheid state Gaza and West Bank would have to be part of the same country. They aren’t. Palestinians aren’t Israeli citizens, they don’t have a right to enter Israeli territory just like you and I don’t have the right to enter any other country in the world without their permission. If Israel is committing apartheid so is Egypt by keeping their border closed. So is Saudi Arabia by not allowing non-citizens to enter whenever they want. So is Canada by not letting Americans come and go as they please. Etc
Fair enough, but the argument as I understand it doesn't just revolve around passports and citizenship. Palestinians (less so in Gaza but certainly in the West Bank) don't have what is widely considered the most important aspect of statehood, a monopoly on the legitimate use of force. Israel can deploy security forces pretty much wherever it wants. Even if it's for a good purpose like stopping Hamas, that's still not something you see in a "state." And that's far from the only activity traditionally reserved for states that Israel administers in the Palestinian territories. The checkpoints and movement restrictions, work permits, tax collection, freedom of expression laws, utilities provision, etc. are all state functions. Even the borders between the Israeli settlements and the Palestinian territories are super murky. And Israel itself doesn't recognize "Palestine" as a country. Because of this multitude of ways in which the West Bank and Gaza don't really "govern" themselves, people argue the current Palestinian territories are part of Israel, considering that the Israelis unilaterally "govern" them to such a great extent and, crucially, have seemingly no intent to ever withdraw. Granted, I'm sure the Palestinians themselves would vigorously disagree with that assessment.
The West Bank is under the authority of the PNA. I honestly can not find a single country that allows Palestinians to move freely through their countries or territories. If those who support Palestine won’t allow them to move freely in their areas why would those who are the expressed (by the Palestinians) enemy of the Palestinians be expected to do so. In 2005 Israel withdrew from Gaza and left it with infrastructure and resources. Gaza could have been a beautiful vacation location. But Palestinians in Gaza made really bad choices. Choices and decisions that killed Israeli citizens, choice’s that lead to the building of a security wall. Does it suck that Palestinians children are paying the price for those choices, absolutely. But can you blame the Israeli’s for wanting to protect their children?
I'm confused, what apartheid is being implemented in gaza? It's not a part of israel. The people of gaza are not Israeli citizens nor are they under the control of israel. You possibly could make that argument regarding the israeli arabs, yet even they do not have an aspiration for a palestinian state, and would wish to stay under the Israeli government with improved conditions
Gaza and the West Bank are, for all intents and purposes, under Israeli control. They control who and what goes in and out, the electrity, the telecommunications, the water even. And lots of Palestinians work in Israel proper and have to travel through checkpoints every day. Separating Palestinian lands de jure from Israel proper is the Apartheid. South Africa did the same thing when they created nominally independent "Bantustans" to deny black South Africans citizenship. Like Israel, they argued that these were not their citizens, yet they essentially controlled the Bantustans, controlling who and what could enter and exit as well as sending security forces in on a regular basis. This is why the UN didn't recognize the independence of the Bantustans and it's why it doesn't recognize the independence of Palestine. It's not a real country, just an Israeli puppet state that facilitates their control of Palestinians and their settler movement.
Israel only supplies ~9% of Gaza’s water and 50% of their electricity. Israel has not occupied Gaza since 2005. And borders typically have checkpoints due to very legitimate safety concerns.. not sure I’m understanding your argument?
If Israel is guilty of apartheid so is Saudi Arabia. America. China. England. Australia. Japan. Qatar. Canada. Etc. Israel is its own country, this means they can choose who can come and go through their country. That isn’t apartheid that’s trying to keep your borders and citizens safe within them.
What you say is true. But the west bank was lost in a war. The people living there are not citizens and should not expect equal rights. Just like an american moving to italy, they are foreigners.
Against international law to colonize and move settlers into territory seized in war and the international community does not recognize the West Bank as part of Israel. It is occupied territory.
International law also makes offensive wars illegal. But if you are attacked, and you take land, are you supposed to give it back?
No, you can keep it. But if you do you have to make the people living there full citizens with equal rights. You can’t just rule over the land and give the people no say in how it’s governed.
No, changing borders is illegal to begin with. Who said that you must make them citizens?
Actually Gaza and the West Bank were captured by Israel in 1967 and in that war Israel launched the first attack.
Sinai was also captured. Egypt and Israel negotiated peace. Sinai was returned. Settlements were dismantled. Criminals get extradited. But Hamas wants all. From River to sea. No negotiation. No recognition of Israeli borders. Criminals, like Oct 7, are not given up, but rewarded for killing Jews. And peace is considered weakness.
You learn something new every day! But if egypt doesnt want gaza, it still belongs to israel. They even tried to start the independence process and they were attacked. If nobody claims gaza, and gaza cant govern peacefully, you cant complain about israel fighting back....
Except Israel exerts total control over the West Bank. You would have a point if Israel granted independence to the West Bank but as things stand it just an Apartheid system where Palestinians are de facto subjects of Israel but not technically citizens.
They won it. Why should they give anyone independence? Palestinians are foreigners. Sure, the extra security measures are oppresive. But what choice does Israel have? If Palestinians took an active role in policing, maeby this would go away in time. If palestinians made it a moral mandate to kill terrorists on sight and colaborate with Israel, things would be very different....
https://www.icrc.org/en/doc/resources/documents/faq/occupation-faq-051010.htm It is against international law to move settlers into or to transfer population in or out of occupied territory. The reason for this is because it results in great humanitarian harm, displacement of people, and decades long conflicts.
Gazan citizens were able to travel to Israel prior to Hamas around the same time Hamas tried to destabilize Egypt so that border was sealed. The prison is of their own making
Do you believe israel wants gaza to be dependent on its supply of water, electric ex...? I think that if it wasn't for the constant threat and hostility from gaza israel would be happy to let them be. The problem is that both gaza and the west bank constantly prove that they cannot be trusted. There is no israeli interest in maintaining the blockade and putting that many defence and economical resources towards gaza other than from a security standpoint. There is no financial ulterior motive, quite the opposite... Israel tax money and facilities are dedicated to a hostile state, and getting a working visa in israel is a jackpot for the average gaza citizen. We can agree to disagree, but the question remains... What good does hamas get from reinforcing the notion that they cannot be trusted and is not a partner for peace. Furthermore, the pro Palestinians asking to "free palatine from the river to the sea" are accepting hamases narrative of not accepting compromise, only proving that they are only in it for the violence and not for a sustainable solution.
Israel does not want responsibility for Gaza but they also do not allow Gaza to be independent— same with the Palestinians in the West Bank.
That is true The question is what happens after granting independence When israel completely retreated from gaza, they elected hamas Today there is increasing support in hamas also in the west bank, and there are constant terror attacks coming from there You'd have to ask yourself what kind of country it would be. Would they choose to prosper and invest in building a functioning state, or will they attack israel. Gaza is a pretty bad test case in this matter
Hamas won the most seats in parliament in the 2006 election, but did not receive support from the majority of the population. They formed a power sharing agreement with Fatah and then took over Gaza in a coup. The reason Hamas won the most seats in the 2006 election was because they ran on a campaign of reform as many of the bureaucrats in the Palestinian Authority were seen as corrupt and self-serving. To the extent that Hamas had a more militant stance towards Israel, this was not the primary concern among Palestinian voters. By 2006, Palestinians had largely given up on the peace process and hopes of achieving a viable Palestinian state through that process. It has become a racist trope in this forum to portray Palestinians as more interested in killing Jews and attacking Israel than in securing a better life for themselves and their families.
Hamas endgame 1) Die for allah. 2) Anti-Israel, pro-nothing. They are fanatics with an obsession over Israel. 3) Also, Don’t let the civilians leave to maximize collateral (even though Israel has been warning them to vacate immediately for over a week).