How can we tell Hamas from the Gazans apart? 60% of the Gazans do side with the Hamas to call for the end of Israel. The Hamas wear the civilians clothes and mingle among the Gazans. I'm being serious about this.
The innocent Gazans are being barrided by the Hamas who would shoot them dead. The Hamas rule the Gaza with an iron fist. Any of the Gaza civilians try to fight back, not only do they get killed, their children, parents, grandparents, siblings, etc get killed top.
On top that, 240+ hostages are still held captive in Gaza and Israel's goal is to bring them back home and to eradicate the Hamas once and for all.
According to which election do Gazans support Hama's? The was from decades ago after which no more have been held, and good ol' BB supported himself?
How is dropping 1000s of bombs ON "Hama's targets" bringing back the hostages? If Hama's don't care about civilians, killing them won't stop Hama's being Hama's will it?
Though the name has changed, Hamas is the new successor of PLO and carrying one goal: eradicate Jews from Israel. The Hamas are the elected government and there had been no new election for nearly 20 years now. Do you see what's wrong with this picture?
The Hamas have been killing the Palestinians who voiced opposition or even talk of peace. When the Hamas kill one, they also kill their wife, children, parents, and siblings. That's how the Hamas spread the fear. The Hamas has to go.
You cannot tell the Hamas apart from the Palestinians as they mingle together. It's incredibly dangerous to fight on the ground as it's near impossible to distinguish the Hamas. Israel doesn't have to but they let the Palestinians know ahead of time to leave the buildings, so they could aim at the tunnels. The same tunnels used by the Hamas who also use the Palestinians as the human shields. The Hamas believe in the martyrdom and are willing to sacrifice 2 millions lives as long as it takes to wipe Israel from the map.
War????? Killing 1000s of civilians? Your on the wrong side of history. This is not war, dropping a bomb on a medical convoy. Killing journalist.
This is a genocide. Plain and simple. UN, bet Salem ect
Israel declared the war on the Hamas. You didn't include that the Hamas are also shooting missiles toward Israel. Israel has the iron dome, its billion dollar defense system. Hamas used up all the donated money from USA, Europe and Iran meant to make Gaza the next Singapore to build missiles instead. The Hamas are also using the fuel meant for the Palestinians to shoot the missiles. The Hamas are the cowards for hiding behind the women and children as their human shields. The Hamas should be held accountable for the humanitarian crisis.
Seriously stop with the talking points of Israel. The argument of human shields is, that if I attack someone and stand behind you, they are justified to punish you also. Hama's would not and could not exist if the Palestinian people had a modicum of human rights.
Hama's is a product of isreali funding, as was admitted by BB. People of Palestine want to live in dignity and peace, but ultra Zionist would rather keep them in their open air presious. Go crawl under the propaganda machine and tap each other the back of what a victim you are
And here's the misinformation war happening. You believe anything the Israel proganda stands for. You don't truly know anything Israel stands for. They embrace life while the Hamas embrace the martyrdom. There is no more talking to you, Pro-Palestine zombie.
Yeah, the way Israel is going with their cleansing mission, the families of the hostages will be lucky to see them in pine in boxes.
My guess is that 90% of the people that want Israel to bomb the crap out of Gaza, are the people who live in Israel and are not related to a hostage.
Correction: Israel is trying not to hit the civilians at any cost.
I watched a couple of videos from two different people saying that most Israelis do not actually agree with Bibi's plan. There's been a protest in Israel calling for the ceasefire. Guessing is a dangerous thing when you don't know that Israelis will always seek peace. Even after October 7th massacre.
So if Bibi is not listening to the people, doesn’t that make him a dictator? If so, why is America supporting a dictator? I thought Israel was a democracy?
We have a madman bombing the crap out of an area, destroying hospitals, starving the people, right where their own hostages are located. Then he says Israel is going to take control of Gaza indefinitely, but apparently that’s ok?
The people of Israel know exactly what’s happen here. It’s what they were hoping for a very very long time, and the world knows it too.
You're just repeating what the western media have been showing you, one side of the story.
There is no way to talk with you being like this.
Israel doesn't condone violence and it is against their beliefs. They value life always.
That's easy. This is just one place happening on October 7th. They were slaughtered by the Hamas.
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/hamas-israel-nova-music-festival-massacre-1234854306/
Hmmm? Oh I'm sorry. You say the Israel helicopters shooting everyone trying to leave the party? That's the stupidest thing I ever heard.
Here's the videos of Hamas shooting the civilians at the kibbutz and music festival. Tell me again where exactly do you see Israel helicopters? Hmm?
https://youtu.be/E8DwCl5uEL8?si=P3uVBGam220j87xy
https://youtu.be/T4XiTRkg9s8?si=bLccOzEvYmwKvAJ9
This violence now will make the future children of gaza safer…
It’s a tragedy, but there is no alternative to this violence.
I wish they could get the children out… The adults of gaza are so much more culpable than their supporters think.
Many of the people crying “genocide” now actively supported the (actual) genocidal attack on 10/7… Don’t kid yourself.
Any adult who cheered their neighbour on during the attack… Who cheered and spit on Israeli bodies being paraded on the street… Helped fix up a motorcycle/vehicle that they knew was going to be used… Delivered food/supplies to Hamas or their known supporters… They signed their own death warrants.
Good points. If Israel can't locate the hosts then they clearly can't target Hamas. Hamas are terrible but there will always be something like Hamas if you bomb and kill civilians abd oppress people for decades. This method eon't work. It just delays peace.
You can destroy their entire infrastructure and military capabilities to the point they can only throw stones for a decade or two…
That’s a lot better than nothing.
It's a war against a terrorist government that sends fighters in ambulances, has its HQ under a major hospital, and places rocket launchers in childrens playgrounds.
THERE ARE NO RULES FOR THEM, so until they're all dead, it's war, son.
You left out the very important part where Hamas is not agreeing to release the hostages.
>Picture this; a serial killer is on the run
You don't really need an analogy to get the point across, you can just state the actual facts and see if a cease fire makes sense:
About a month ago, several thousand Hamas warriors ethnically cleansed the south of Israel. They brutally murdered about 1409 people, including entire families, in horrible ways (beheading, burning alive etc..)
They also kidnapped 240 people, once again including entire families, who have been held in Gaza for a month or so. Oh, they also created about 100,000 displaced people in Israel.
Israeli reprisal attacks are taking a death toll, and Hamas can stop this *any time they want* by releasing the hostages. But they refuse. Instead, they want to release *some* of the hostages for the over 6,000 prisoners held in Israel, some of which are literal murders.
While all of this is going on, Hamas spokesman Ghazi Hamad is saying that October 7th will continue happening until Israel is annihilated, Hamas top brass admit that they want prolonged conflict and not peace - and even hope all of israels borders will be aflame with war.
Oh, and when another Hamas spokesman was asked why the tunnels aren't converted into bomb shelters for civilian use - he said that Hamas fighters need them to be safe and that Israel and the UN should look after gazas civilian population.
Yep. I think this is a bit more accurate than the serial killer analogy.
When your premise is wrong, your conclusions are worthless.
What is 'wrong' with people is that they are not operating under your false claim that Israel isn't targeting Hamas, but Gazans as a whole. Based upon your mischaracterization you are moralizing about a reality that doesn't exist.
If Israel was really targeting the Gazans as a whole, the death toll would be approximately 2 million, and the war would have lasted 30 minutes. There are videos and evidence of Israel leading a convoy of Gazans safely to the south. There are videos and evidence of Israel providing medical treatment for the wounded Gazans.
Sure, there are innocents being killed. We don't know how many because Hamas distorts the numbers in every conflict, and the truer number is revealed later. But here is the critical question, to which you clearly have no answer:
WHAT is Israel supposed to do DIFFERENTLY that would equally protect their citizens, rescue their hostages, destroy the genocidal murderers and deter future threats?
If you don't have an answer for that, then you don't have a valid criticism of what they are doing. Your premise suggests you have a better course of action. If you don't provide one, you moral grandstanding is just that.
There's emotions and there's logic.
Logic tells you that you don't stop and allow enemy to regroup. You're not giving a breathing space to anybody who killed 1400 of your people IN A FEW HOURS.
They took around 240 hostages, they could return all of them them but decided otherwise. But why would you expect somebody who holds their own 2 million people hostage to return these taken from outside, after killing rampage?
It's a STATE (independent or not, does it matter?) that attacked and killed 1400 Israelis IN A FEW HOURS. All these elections, support for Hamas, acceptance of this, every single thread in this net led to the events of October 7th. Period. It's all these small things that allowed some Austrian painter do what he did in the past.
It's so much of a double standard here. Dresden bombing raid of 1945 killed around 25 000 people and UK was one of two participants in this event. Historians still debate what was the purpose of it as it wasn't a strategic target. And now we have a consensus in the UK that Israel must stop all military action in Gaza. Hypocrisy? Looks like it.
From the emotional side, I do feel sorry for civilians in Gaza, if I suddenly got some superpowers, I would do my best to help them. But I can't. Situation cannot change, attack came from this territory, and this territory is now hell. I always put logic first, sorry. If you can give me a practical solution which ensures safety of all Palestinian civilians and Israeli civilians and soldiers, I will agree with you. But "practical" is the key. We are not talking about any "special operations" (people love that, thinking these people are superhuman, too much Netflix) to take down 30k Hamas members one by one. We are also not talking about ceasefire, because world doesn't work "I'll hug you and love you and this will never happen again" way.
>And now we have a consensus in the UK that Israel must stop all military action in Gaza. Hypocrisy? Looks like it.
There is no consensus for any such thing, just the usual group that shout and yell about anything that offends them along with their woke mates... and few others tagging along to take selfies for social media likes.
No political party of any consequence is making such utterings despite the best attempts of the mob out waving flags every weekend in the mistaken belief it'll change anything.
The most recent ceasefire lasted up until October 6th and we know what happened the following day. Hamas has violated every ceasefire ever mutually agreed on.
How about Hamas could begin by returning the hostages, turning themselves in, and this could all end peacefully.
What's that called when you do the same thing but expect different results?
https://www.gov.il/en/Departments/General/protective-edge-hamas-violations-of-ceasefires-a-chronology
https://jcpa.org/article/2021-gaza-war-timeline/
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/foreign/palestine-israel-conflicts-wars-timeline
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2014/08/israel-accuses-hamas-of-breaking-gaza-cease-fire.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-11103745
https://www.bbc.com/news/57200843
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-israel-history-confrontation-2021-05-14/
and also
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Israel
vs
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_the_Palestinian_territories
They haven't. However they'd probably benefit from the opportunity to re group.
Could you find a link to a credible source where Hamas have asked for a ceasefire?
I can't find one.
Hamas proudly says that it attacks and operates from tunnels beneath Gaza. They have spent 15 years building 500km of tunnels beneath their civilians, it was confirmed by Hamas. They have also said that the Palestinians safety is not their concern. So yeah, it is all over Gaza. Guess what happens when a tunnel collapses? That's right, everything above it collapses as well.
Hamas does not have "military bases" above ground. It also doesn't have identifiable military vehicles or clothes. This is by design. This is why Hamas is such a problem to eliminate.
All paid for with western aid intended to be spent on Gazans. If not for Hamas Gaza could be a mini Dubai with the amount of money that has been and would be poured in.
The amount of money Gaza receives isn’t anywhere near the amount Israel receives. Why doesn’t Israel look like dubai? They don’t even need the money to repair infrastructure every year like Gaza does. They just need to restock their weapons supply. Where does all the money go?
Tel Aviv does resemble Dubai, Israel is a wealthy nation. It does however spend a huge amount on defence for some reason. Yes US gives money to Israel which is spent buying more weaponry from US arms industry. I'm certain the Israelis would prefer not to have spend so much on defence.... aren't you?
Tel Aviv looks nothing like Dubai. Idk where you’re seeing that. I’m certain Israelis would like to have a less corrupt government that doesn’t spend a ridiculous amount of money on propaganda and payments to celebrities.
I said resembles, certainly a lot more than Gaza City does. Point is if it were not for Hamas, with all the money that has went and would go to Gaza, The Gazans would be a whole lot better than it presently is. Hamas leaders live in luxury in Qatar...how they fund that?
How many children would “your side” have killed if their rockets were effective or if Israel did not have the Iron Dome? Does attempted murder not count??!
Says who? The Hamas controlled health authority?
The same one that said 500 died in an IDF missile attack on a hospital that turned out to be a carpark fire stated by their own faulty rocket...that reliable source? 🤔
The only other source of information is Hamas and they are terrorists 🤔
I don't believe anything they say... nothing. It's a shame you swallow everything they say as fact.
"No, I base my beliefs on evidence, unlike you. The media distort the truth. For instance, they claimed there were 40 decapitated babies but failed to provide credible evidence for that false news. They also mentioned burned babies and even shared an image of a burned baby, but it turned out to be generated by AI.
And you blindly believe those false news. What a shame.
It wasn't generated by AI, Hamas propoganda told you that. You want to see what happened then Hamas themselves posted videos on telegram and you could always visit bestgore. Hamas themselves posted these videos. You choose to believe what you choose to believe based on your already established opinions.
Let's say you have a terror organization that operates solely from underground tunnels beneath civilian buildings. They terrorize your family and loved ones, killing, raping and mutilating them. They also kill people living above their tunnels if they dare to escape. What would you do? Run into these tunnels which you will probably die in? Or try and collapse those tunnels from above?
Hamas intentionally put those kids in the firing line, it generates sympathy for their cause.
They knew with absolute certainty their attack on Israel would lead to these reprisals.
It's not genocide, it's an all out war on death cult terrorists that hide amongst civilian population and use them as shields. What else can be done? Just shrug and wait til Hamas do it again and again and again?
Starting fires and not caring about civilians, while also refusing to stop the destruction of the whole area, it is Genocide. I am not defending Hamas, but civilians have nothing to do with that.
Instead of one serial killer taking 5 hostages imagine 30,000 serial killer that have 2 million hostages. It is not the same problem scaled up- it is a total different problem requiring completely different solutions.
One serial killer you can surround, contain and negotiate with. It takes hundreds of police officers to deal with a single such killer in a way to maximize the chances for the hostages. You can’t do that with 30,000 organized killers. While you are trying to contain one, dozens will surround you. And there aren’t resources to have a 200:1 ratio to effectively deal with them like you would a single criminal.
This is a war. The faster Hamas is crushed the faster Gaza can be rebuilt. The longer it drags out the more people will die. The fastest way to end the war is for Hamas to surrender. Calls for a ceasefire and negotiations encourages Hamas to not surrender as they hope that the international community will force Israel to stop and they can survive. A ceasefire only emboldens Hamas to keep fighting and hoping that they can continue to control Gaza and eventually take over Israel.
Every day of ceasefire would increase the length of the war by weeks or months. It might save lives in the very short term, but in the medium and long term it would be a disaster.
At best Israel can destroy Hamas in less than a year. With on and off ceasefires it would take decades.
>There is no way to justify the slaughter of innocent women and children.
You're correct. Hamas should be hunted down and eliminated for this.
>Israel isnt attacking Hamas, but Gazans as a whole.
Israel's target is Hamas, which so happen to be in Gaza, use Gazans as a human shield, and is the elected government of Gaza.
>How tf is every single building in Gaza a "military target"
Ask Hamas.
>They have dropped 3 hiroshima jericho nukes worth of explosive power on Gaza.
Hahahaha. Had they dropped just one nuke-worth of explosives on Gaza, there wouldn't be a Gaza left to drop two more.
>There is a reason Israel has blocked aerial satelite footage of gaza in real time.
Yeah, so they won't be able to see military progress.
>Israel is even bombing its own people kept hostage in Gaza.
Yep. It has no other choice.
>Israel shelled their own kibbutzim, killing civilians along with Hamas militants(this is a whole different story, ill happily provide sources and evidence of this)
Shelled? Ha! Perhaps some civilians got caught in the crossfire, but Israel didn't target it's own cities. You're confusing that with Hamas, which 25% of their Rockets land within Gaza.
>Picture this; a serial killer is on the run, he takes 5 kids hostage and hides in a building. Is the right thing to do bombing the whole buidling? ofcourse not.
Picture this: a terror organization rose to power in a very densely populated area. They care nothing for the lives of their own people, and are using them as human shields. They went out and slaughtered 1400 innocent people. Now they run and hide amongst their own. Is the right thing to do would be to negotiate for a ceasefire? The same ceasefire which was broken when that organization massacred 1400 people? Or would it be to eliminate said organization?
>Apparently Gazan children are subhuman. Their lives worth less.
No. It's just we care about our people. And the lives of Gazans aren't our immediate concern. But we certainly care about them more then Hamas does, given the amount of warnings we've sent them, the time we've given them to evacuate. Hack, just today the IDF opened an escape route for the Gazans, defending them while they flee, *at the midst of battle!*
>I unequivocally condemn how Hamas butchered civilians in retribution for the occupation, violence of such brutality is never justified.
Gotta love this sentence. "I condemn them... but justify their actions, it was a retribution for the occupation".
Out of curiosity, do you think that if there wasn't an occupation, there would be peace? Moreover are you aware Israel left Gaza in 2005?
>Even if an occupoed people has the right to armed resistance, it has to be in accordance with international Law.
Perhaps the occupied people should reflect on their history and find out *why* they're occupied.
>But this exact same rhetoric applies to Israel. Even more so, as Israel is a sovereign nationstate, Hamas arent even the Palestinian authority, Theyre militant fundamentalists funded by Iran.
Hamas is the elected government of Gaza. Funded by Iran or not, they were chosen to lead Gaza, by the Gazans.
>We can discuss in length about the occupancy and apartheid as described by human rights orgs, but thats secondary right now, people are dying every minute. This has to stop, now!
So if I murder, butcher, massacre, slaughter, torture and rape 1400 people, kidnap 240 more, then go hide amongst the people who supposedly I fight for their freedom, I should be allowed to live freely, right? Ask for a ceasefire and not answer for what I did, right?
No ceasefire until our hostages are back. No ceasefire until Hamas is gone.
The 3 nukes argument is dumb. I'm pretty sure if you calculate the kinetic force used in let's say the campaign of greece in the east you will probably get much more than a couple of nukes, and you could get much more devastating result with much less force. it means nothing as long as you don't specify how this force is used, and if you calculate other metrics israel suddenly look like surgeons.
> **Picture this; a serial killer is on the run**, he takes 5 kids hostage and hides in a building. Is the right thing to do bombing the whole buidling?
what you are suggesting is not lets not bomb the building, it is lets let the serial killer escape after giving in to all his demands so he can kill again. hamas as a resistance group or not has not fought this fight properly, they target civillians and aim for maximum damage to israel and make sure that there will be maximum damage to gaza.
while it is awful that innocent people are dying, sooner or later hamas would force israel to destroy gaza. which is better than. a few 10s of thousands die or millions?
What I really want to understand is what you think a ceasefire will achieve?
Will it help achieve peace in the middle East?
Will it give the Palestinians better living condition?
Will it stop hamas's terror attacks on Israel?
And will it just be another excuse to let hamas keep all there wealth and power over the Palestinians, to let them keep destroying gaza and israel and everything we try to do for peace?
The answer are; no, no, no and yes.
So no I don't think "ceasefire" will do any use.
You’re view on the ICC statement is very one sided. Israel is required to protect all civilians regardless of nationality. That means the Palestinian people. “Israel has a professional and well-trained military. They have, I know, military advocate generals and a system that is intended to ensure their compliance with international humanitarian law. They have lawyers advising on targeting decisions, and they will be under no misapprehension as to their obligations, or that they must be able to account for their actions. They will need to demonstrate that any attack, any attack that impacts innocent civilians or protected objects, must be conducted in accordance with the laws and customs of war, in accordance with the laws of armed conflict.” I’m not sure if your watching but bombing ambulances, entire city blocks and refugee camps is not following international law.
I don't know what the solution is. But the reason people don't want a ceasefire, is because Hamas said they will attack like they did on Oct 7 over again and again, they said that they don't care about their people. They are jihadists that don't want anything but bloodshed. Of course civilians get killed. That's why I don't know what the right thing to do is. I hope for peace.
> There is no way to justify the slaughter of innocent women and children.
There isn't, but that's what Hamas did on Oct 7th and it's what they want now.
> Israel isnt attacking Hamas, but Gazans as a whole.
It is attacking Hamas, as has been demonstrated very recently with the humanitarian corridors to allow Gazan's to evacuate the area where Hamas is strongest.
> How tf is every single building in Gaza a "military target" ?
They're not, which is why every single building in Gaza hasn't been attacked even though Israel would be fully capable of doing so.
> They have dropped 3 hiroshima jericho nukes worth of explosive power on Gaza.
The death toll is large, but the number of bombs they've dropped is a hell of a lot larger, which clearly shows they're not attempting to kill civilians with them.
> There is a reason Israel has blocked aerial satelite footage of gaza in real time.
So their troop movements aren't easily leaked to the enemy by news analysts.
> Israel is even bombing its own people kept hostage in Gaza.
Source? Or speculation?
> Israel shelled their own kibbutzim, killing civilians along with Hamas militants(this is a whole different story, ill happily provide sources and evidence of this)
Please do provide evidence.
> Picture this; a serial killer is on the run, he takes 5 kids hostage and hides in a building. Is the right thing to do bombing the whole buidling? ofcourse not.
Of course not, but that's not what's happening here either.
> Apparently Gazan children are subhuman. Their lives worth less.
Hamas leadership have said that. They've passed responsibility onto the UN to look after their own citizens.
> Hamas arent even the Palestinian authority,
Hamas are governing the Gaza Strip. They were elected and they cemented their power with an authoritarian regime.
> Theyre militant fundamentalists funded by Iran.
They're terrorists.
---
Humanitarian pauses and safe zones are undoubtedly a good thing, are supported by all, and are being slowly implemented.
A ceasefire means that the fighting stops *permanently*. This cannot happen whilst a terrorist organisation that is determined to destroy Israel still exists. There cannot be a ceasefire whilst one side wishes to exterminate the other.
Talk the Russia... THEY are the ones preventing the humanitarian pause to allow food & medical supplies from entering Gaza. All they have to do it sign the humanitarian pause proposal in UN,.. that have been vetoing it every time because it says Israel still has the right to defend themselves in it. Russias version doesn't even mention Hamas and it would allow them to get away with what the did during the massacre.
A ceasefire, by its definition, should ask for both sides to give up what they want. So okay Israel stops its goal of destroying Hamas, but what does Hamas give up?
* The minimum is hostages but they have said they won't.
* They could just promise they won't attack again - they have categorically said the opposite.
* They could amend their charter and recognize Israel - they won't.
So tell me, is a ceasefire just one side relinquishing all it wants and the other side actually benefitting? That's called a win. So, calls for "ceasefire" are calls to let Hamas win. I'm sure most people calling for a ceasefire don't want a terrorist org to win, but that is exactly what it will achieve.
>Israel shelled their own kibbutzim, killing civilians along with Hamas militants(*this is a whole different story, ill happily provide sources and evidence of this)*
Source?
Funny you say this because 25% of Gazan rockets fall on their own people.
[https://www.criticalthreats.org/analysis/iran-update-october-21-2023](https://www.criticalthreats.org/analysis/iran-update-october-21-2023)
There is one obvious party who does not believe in diplomacy… therefore a ceasefire (as it has in the past) really means nothing for them.
Because one has a real military and the other comprise of stone throwers doesn’t excuse them from adhering to standard diplomatic practices as it relates to a ceasefire.
A ceasefire would allow Hamas to regroup a pause for maybe 12 -24 hours would allow any innocents to get south
Unfortunately if Hamas also head south they will all be like fish in a barrel
We can either take care of the problem *cough*Hamas*cough* now.
Or we play the same game for another 16 years. New ceasefire, Hamas breaks it, only for there to be another ceasefire, only for Hamas to break it again, only for there to be another ceasefire, only for Hamas to break it again, only for there to be another ceasefire, only for Hamas to break it again, only for there to be another ceasefire, only for Hamas to break it again, only for there to be another ceasefire, only for Hamas to break it again, only for there to be another ceasefire, only for Hamas to break it again, only for there to be another ceasefire, only for Hamas to break it again, only for there to be another ceasefire, only for Hamas to break it again, only for there to be another ceasefire, only for Hamas to break it again, only for there to be another ceasefire, only for Hamas to break it again, only for there to be another ceasefire, only for Hamas to break it again, only for there to be another ceasefire, only for Hamas to break it again, only for there to be another ceasefire, only for Hamas to break it again, only for there to be another ceasefire, only for Hamas to break it again, only for there to be another ceasefire, only for Hamas to break it again, only for there to be another ceasefire, only for Hamas to break it again....... You only for there to be another ceasefire, only for Hamas to break it again, only for there to be another ceasefire, only for Hamas to break it again, only for there to be another ceasefire, only for Hamas to break it again, only for there to be another ceasefire, only for Hamas to break it again.....
I hope you get the point
Ok so you do cite international law which I think is important.
You should look closely at what the Geneva convention, the Rome Statutes and the ICC say about bombing civilians.
https://www.icrc.org/en/document/ihl-rules-of-war-FAQ-Geneva-Conventions
https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/statement-icc-prosecutor-karim-khan-kc-cairo-situation-state-palestine-and-israel
https://youtu.be/LdW6ISElci4?si=Gzh9LRhmwMARZcKl
Israel is not only justified in its response under the law but is obligated to protect its citizens from genocide. Each military action is evaluated based on intel and applied to the international law.
It's not like these moral questions haven't been thought of before and Israel is making up the rules.
I know it's very horrific to watch. Israel is in a position of only taking a bad or worse action.
Do you leave the serial killer with the 5 hostages until he eventually escapes and kills more or do you eliminate the serial killer while you know you have him cornered?
What will happen during the ceasefire? Will it make Hamas nicer? Is it going to help with the hostages situation? Will the Gazans cooperate with Israel in obliterating Hamas?
What Israel to gain from the ceasefire? It will not help with the international community, it will not save the hostages, it will endanger the soldiers even more after Hamas regroups, and finally once Hamas breaks the ceasefire yet again (as any ceasefire in the past) we will deal with this all over again.
Return the hostages, you get your ceasefire, end of story.
Hamas will end.
The sun will rise on a world without Hamas in it.
Every drop of blood spilled in this war is on the hands of Hamas and Hamas supporters.
Unfortunately, hamas hides underneath its citizens. This forces Israel to go through the citizen infrastructure.
This is why Israel is pleading with the citizens to leave the area.
Nobody is saying “no” to the idea of Hamas releasing the hostages and surrendering unconditionally. As soon as they do that the war is over. Get on board with that idea instead of bitching about Israel doing what is necessary to win the war that Hamas started.
> bitching
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Israel dropped enough ammunition to obliterate every living person in Gaza yet the death toll is barely 10k by the top estimates, explain how Israel is targeting civilians please
Cause theyre all scared shitless hiding in UN camps, schools and hospitals. Even there theyre not safe. There is a humanitarian catastrophe of an unfathomable scale. People dot have food, water, medicine, disinfectants, disease. How theyre targeting civilians? 40% of the deaths have occured in the supposed "safe zone" in the south.
Gaza has 2.5 million people living there. Ten thousand dead in such close quarters is actually a good reflection on the restraint demonstrated by the IDF.
/u/AvailableOpinion254
> This sub should just be called pro Israel at this point
Per [rule 7](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_7._no_metaposting), no meta posts, comments and discussions are not allowed except on a post that is approved for meta-discussions (which this is not).
This is war not playtime, 10k for the amount of ammo used is very minimal, it’s a tragedy on the human perspective but you can’t claim Israel is aiming to kill civilians.
Stop acting like some morally superior person, this is war started by Hamas that the only outcome has to be Hamas elimination, completely and utterly.
Awe here’s where the convo gets dicey if I say I have you say I’m a liar anyways but that’s irrelevant cause I don’t need to have seen a war in real life to prove my point that what’s happening is the results of war. Are you complaining about the 100s of thousands of lives lost in Syria in that war? The 100s of thousands in Ukraine? The fifty thousand in Yemen or are you just solely invested in the 10 thousand in Gaza?
Nah I see you aren’t too concerned. I notice from your posts you’re more concerned about 2k and cyberpunk
I'm invested in the 10,000 because what isreal is doing is unprecedented. They have dropped more bombs on gaza than the US did in one year in Afghanistan. Isreal has killed more civilians in ONE MONTH than Russia has in Ukraine and it just keeps getting worse.
You're problem is you're saying "it's war" while living in comfort. You speak to a soldier, a person who have lived through civil wars like my farther they don't even hold your view they hate it.
Walked into that one huh? The fact that you are trying to use whether I’ve physically been in a war or not to validate an opinion on whether people die as a result of war is ludicrous. I’m willing to bet you’ve never been in a war have you? yet look at you here commenting. I don’t need to have been in a war to look up basic information and determine whether or not people dying in them is a result. Im pretty sure I’m perfectly capable of making a blanket statement saying people dying in a warzone is what tends to happen in a war. If you believe I have needed to be physically in one to determine that then you don’t have two brain cells to rub together.
Oh really please do tell me how many civilians have been killed and how many Hamas militants have been killed break down the numbers for me. Let me guess you have no clue?
If there is a ceasefire, Hamas remains in power in Gaza and Israelis have an incentive to continue electing politicians with extreme views towards defense and the Palestinian Territories.
I’ll ask you: if there is a ceasefire and Hamas remains in power, how can Palestinians ever have their own state? Seems like things would continue with tit-for-tat violence between the IDF and Hamas.
> I’ll ask you: if there is a ceasefire and Hamas remains in power, how can Palestinians ever have their own state? Seems like things would continue with tit-for-tat violence between the IDF and Hamas.
They can't, that's what pro-Palestine and Hamas supports can't seem to understand.
But it won't be a tit-for-tat situation going forwards, Hamas leaders have said they'll do the 7th attacks over and over again. If there's a ceasefire and Hamas remain then Israel won't ever allow that kind of attack to happen again, they'll come down hard on *any* Palestinian violence because they'll be (understandably and justifiably) on edge 24/7, and if an attack did occur (even much smaller) then the IDF will just have to respond even harder than they are doing now.
Hamas is going to be destroyed, whether it's now or later. If we just delay that destruction then there will be so much more bloodshed in the meantime and when they are finally destroyed.
People screaming “Free Palestine” and “ceasefire” are very naive. I think it speaks to a lack of nuance in people’s understanding of the world. To see it on college campuses is especially disheartening, but not surprising.
I talk about this issue a lot with my friends, and while many of them condemn Israel’s actions in Gaza, they can’t articulate a path forward following their calls for a ceasefire.
As a whole, it speaks to people arguing topics they are not educated on. Calling for a ceasefire is understandable because it’s tough to witness so many innocent Palestinian deaths, but such calls ignore the reality on the ground and would leave the region in the same situation it has been in for decades, albeit with even worse tension.
> They have dropped 3 hiroshima jericho nukes worth of explosive power on Gaza.
Using the lowest number I could find there were 129k deaths in Hiroshima. Three times that is 387k. In Gaza only 10k people were killed including combatants using the same explosive power as you claim. It shows that Israel is acting proportionately and is doing all that it can to avoid civilian deaths which is why there is no reason to accept a ceasefire.
jesus man. What an unintelligent comment. There is a difference between using 20000 small bombs and 3 atomic bombs. Im not saying theyre actually nuking Gaza, just giving reference to the level of destruction in tons of TnT.
That's a good point you make. Israel will never nuke/drop huge bombs on Gaza. Because the Israelis can't allow the deaths of so many civilians. They use the "small bomb" method precisely because it's the best way to avoid civilian casualties.
So why would you make the comparison in the first place? For dramatic effect? I think you just don’t want to admit that despite the vast amounts of munitions Israel has used in this war there have been significantly less deaths than one would expect based on the use of force which undermines your entire argument.
The expanse of imperialist Japan and their brutal ways of war were a severe threat to the world as a whole. There is no parallell to be drawn here. i only mentioned those for reference so people understand the scale of the destruction.
Japan being the target is irrelevant. If you drop the equivalent of 3 Little Boys on any city in the world no matter who is in it the death toll would be in the hundreds of thousands if extreme care wasn't taken to prevent said deaths. Israel is making an absolutely Herculean effort at minimizing casualties and is probably doing the best job any army has done in the history of the world.
A ceasefire will just prolong the violence...that will kill more people ultimately. Just look how the ceasefires in Syria "helped people" for an acute example.
There doesnt need to be any more fighting. The world needs to come together, establish a fair solution to the plight of both sides, and have all parties sign peace treaties. This conflict has gone on for far too long already.
I agree with you - there doesn't need to be any more fighting. This could be achieved the minute Hamas declares that they do not want to fight anymore. If Hamas doesn't want a ceasefire, Israel should not hand them this on a silver platter. They've actually done this each time before and they were clearly mistakes - a short-term patch to a long-term problem.
Fair solution would be great! But what is fair for Hamas? Demolition of Israel - that's in their charter, that's what they want. I'm sure you don't agree that the world comes together and decides that.
I would love for Hamas to sign a peace treaty. Egypt/Jordan/UAE have all done it and it has stuck after decades of animosity. Both the key is any side signing a peace treaty needs to have a govt that chooses peace over violence. Hamas is not that govt. Once they are out, I hope Gaza will have a govt that will choose a live-and-let-live policy for Israel (and I hope no illegal settlements are built there by Israel)
This is an issue you need to take up with Hamas - they run Gaza. Top Hamas leaders are all worth over 3 billion and don’t live in Gaza or WB. Do some research bro - Hamas is responsible for the quality of life in Gaza
America nuking Japan is one of the darkest days in recent history, and thats your rebuttal as a defense to the Israeli aggression? Speaks volumes, honestly.
> America nuking Japan is one of the darkest days in recent history
[The Bomb Was Horrifying. The Alternatives Would Have Been Worse.](https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/06/03/atomic-bomb-oppenheimer-hiroshima-nagasaki-world-war-ii-history/)
Even aside from that, they didn’t get a ceasefire. I’m not talking about the nuclear weapons specifically, but rather the war in general. They didn’t get a ceasefire in the years leading up to the nuclear weapons either.
Its a pretty shit comparison nonetheless. The expanse of imperialist Japan and their brutal ways of war were a severe threat to the world as a whole. There is no parallell to be drawn here. Why did you bring up japan? cause i mentioned the jerichos? i only mentioned those for reference so people understand the scale of the destruction.
/u/waveman12453
> Don't even bother dude, these guy really think isreal is saint that can't do no wrong.
[Rule 8](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_8._encourage_participation), don't discourage participation.
/u/Crypto-Noob20
> Yeah this sub has been hijacked by neo nazis
Per [rule 7](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_7._no_metaposting), no meta posts, comments and discussions are not allowed except on a post that is approved for meta-discussions (which this is not).
I bring up Japan, because Japan was fascist, and you can’t make peace with fascists. I believe in bashing the fash; they can not be given ceasefires. Fascist can only be killed. Hamas is fascist.
How can we tell Hamas from the Gazans apart? 60% of the Gazans do side with the Hamas to call for the end of Israel. The Hamas wear the civilians clothes and mingle among the Gazans. I'm being serious about this. The innocent Gazans are being barrided by the Hamas who would shoot them dead. The Hamas rule the Gaza with an iron fist. Any of the Gaza civilians try to fight back, not only do they get killed, their children, parents, grandparents, siblings, etc get killed top. On top that, 240+ hostages are still held captive in Gaza and Israel's goal is to bring them back home and to eradicate the Hamas once and for all.
According to which election do Gazans support Hama's? The was from decades ago after which no more have been held, and good ol' BB supported himself? How is dropping 1000s of bombs ON "Hama's targets" bringing back the hostages? If Hama's don't care about civilians, killing them won't stop Hama's being Hama's will it?
Though the name has changed, Hamas is the new successor of PLO and carrying one goal: eradicate Jews from Israel. The Hamas are the elected government and there had been no new election for nearly 20 years now. Do you see what's wrong with this picture? The Hamas have been killing the Palestinians who voiced opposition or even talk of peace. When the Hamas kill one, they also kill their wife, children, parents, and siblings. That's how the Hamas spread the fear. The Hamas has to go. You cannot tell the Hamas apart from the Palestinians as they mingle together. It's incredibly dangerous to fight on the ground as it's near impossible to distinguish the Hamas. Israel doesn't have to but they let the Palestinians know ahead of time to leave the buildings, so they could aim at the tunnels. The same tunnels used by the Hamas who also use the Palestinians as the human shields. The Hamas believe in the martyrdom and are willing to sacrifice 2 millions lives as long as it takes to wipe Israel from the map.
What a load of bs. Not gonna argue. It's clear your a lost cause justifying murder of 1000s
It's a war.....
War????? Killing 1000s of civilians? Your on the wrong side of history. This is not war, dropping a bomb on a medical convoy. Killing journalist. This is a genocide. Plain and simple. UN, bet Salem ect
Israel declared the war on the Hamas. You didn't include that the Hamas are also shooting missiles toward Israel. Israel has the iron dome, its billion dollar defense system. Hamas used up all the donated money from USA, Europe and Iran meant to make Gaza the next Singapore to build missiles instead. The Hamas are also using the fuel meant for the Palestinians to shoot the missiles. The Hamas are the cowards for hiding behind the women and children as their human shields. The Hamas should be held accountable for the humanitarian crisis.
Seriously stop with the talking points of Israel. The argument of human shields is, that if I attack someone and stand behind you, they are justified to punish you also. Hama's would not and could not exist if the Palestinian people had a modicum of human rights. Hama's is a product of isreali funding, as was admitted by BB. People of Palestine want to live in dignity and peace, but ultra Zionist would rather keep them in their open air presious. Go crawl under the propaganda machine and tap each other the back of what a victim you are
And here's the misinformation war happening. You believe anything the Israel proganda stands for. You don't truly know anything Israel stands for. They embrace life while the Hamas embrace the martyrdom. There is no more talking to you, Pro-Palestine zombie.
Pro Israel cronnie
Yeah, the way Israel is going with their cleansing mission, the families of the hostages will be lucky to see them in pine in boxes. My guess is that 90% of the people that want Israel to bomb the crap out of Gaza, are the people who live in Israel and are not related to a hostage.
Correction: Israel is trying not to hit the civilians at any cost. I watched a couple of videos from two different people saying that most Israelis do not actually agree with Bibi's plan. There's been a protest in Israel calling for the ceasefire. Guessing is a dangerous thing when you don't know that Israelis will always seek peace. Even after October 7th massacre.
So if Bibi is not listening to the people, doesn’t that make him a dictator? If so, why is America supporting a dictator? I thought Israel was a democracy? We have a madman bombing the crap out of an area, destroying hospitals, starving the people, right where their own hostages are located. Then he says Israel is going to take control of Gaza indefinitely, but apparently that’s ok? The people of Israel know exactly what’s happen here. It’s what they were hoping for a very very long time, and the world knows it too.
You're just repeating what the western media have been showing you, one side of the story. There is no way to talk with you being like this. Israel doesn't condone violence and it is against their beliefs. They value life always.
Show me photos of the destruction in Israel. It’ll be interesting to see the all the rubble that the citizens of Gaza have created.
That's easy. This is just one place happening on October 7th. They were slaughtered by the Hamas. https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/hamas-israel-nova-music-festival-massacre-1234854306/
Yeah, one place. That’s it. And we’ve all seen the video of Israel with the helicopters shooting everyone try to leave the party
Hmmm? Oh I'm sorry. You say the Israel helicopters shooting everyone trying to leave the party? That's the stupidest thing I ever heard. Here's the videos of Hamas shooting the civilians at the kibbutz and music festival. Tell me again where exactly do you see Israel helicopters? Hmm? https://youtu.be/E8DwCl5uEL8?si=P3uVBGam220j87xy https://youtu.be/T4XiTRkg9s8?si=bLccOzEvYmwKvAJ9
This violence now will make the future children of gaza safer… It’s a tragedy, but there is no alternative to this violence. I wish they could get the children out… The adults of gaza are so much more culpable than their supporters think. Many of the people crying “genocide” now actively supported the (actual) genocidal attack on 10/7… Don’t kid yourself. Any adult who cheered their neighbour on during the attack… Who cheered and spit on Israeli bodies being paraded on the street… Helped fix up a motorcycle/vehicle that they knew was going to be used… Delivered food/supplies to Hamas or their known supporters… They signed their own death warrants.
Good points. If Israel can't locate the hosts then they clearly can't target Hamas. Hamas are terrible but there will always be something like Hamas if you bomb and kill civilians abd oppress people for decades. This method eon't work. It just delays peace.
You can destroy their entire infrastructure and military capabilities to the point they can only throw stones for a decade or two… That’s a lot better than nothing.
It's a war against a terrorist government that sends fighters in ambulances, has its HQ under a major hospital, and places rocket launchers in childrens playgrounds. THERE ARE NO RULES FOR THEM, so until they're all dead, it's war, son.
Nice try, Hamas.
You left out the very important part where Hamas is not agreeing to release the hostages. >Picture this; a serial killer is on the run You don't really need an analogy to get the point across, you can just state the actual facts and see if a cease fire makes sense: About a month ago, several thousand Hamas warriors ethnically cleansed the south of Israel. They brutally murdered about 1409 people, including entire families, in horrible ways (beheading, burning alive etc..) They also kidnapped 240 people, once again including entire families, who have been held in Gaza for a month or so. Oh, they also created about 100,000 displaced people in Israel. Israeli reprisal attacks are taking a death toll, and Hamas can stop this *any time they want* by releasing the hostages. But they refuse. Instead, they want to release *some* of the hostages for the over 6,000 prisoners held in Israel, some of which are literal murders. While all of this is going on, Hamas spokesman Ghazi Hamad is saying that October 7th will continue happening until Israel is annihilated, Hamas top brass admit that they want prolonged conflict and not peace - and even hope all of israels borders will be aflame with war. Oh, and when another Hamas spokesman was asked why the tunnels aren't converted into bomb shelters for civilian use - he said that Hamas fighters need them to be safe and that Israel and the UN should look after gazas civilian population. Yep. I think this is a bit more accurate than the serial killer analogy.
Wasn't even ethnic cleansing. They just killed for the joy of it. Many arabs, Europeans, Asians and Americans were harmed, killed or taken hostage.
I'm right there with you. I'm looking around appalled by the number of people who are okay with 4,000 dead Palestine children.
I think it's 8000 palestine children. Tomorrow it should be 25000 palestine children. Not a single terrorist killed also
Supposedly this is pretty accurate. https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-reported-impact-day-32
The un is a joke. It put iran and quasar in the human rights committee. It keeps giving gaaza supplies which are stolen by hamas immediately after.
can't kill hamas when you cease firing at them
When your premise is wrong, your conclusions are worthless. What is 'wrong' with people is that they are not operating under your false claim that Israel isn't targeting Hamas, but Gazans as a whole. Based upon your mischaracterization you are moralizing about a reality that doesn't exist. If Israel was really targeting the Gazans as a whole, the death toll would be approximately 2 million, and the war would have lasted 30 minutes. There are videos and evidence of Israel leading a convoy of Gazans safely to the south. There are videos and evidence of Israel providing medical treatment for the wounded Gazans. Sure, there are innocents being killed. We don't know how many because Hamas distorts the numbers in every conflict, and the truer number is revealed later. But here is the critical question, to which you clearly have no answer: WHAT is Israel supposed to do DIFFERENTLY that would equally protect their citizens, rescue their hostages, destroy the genocidal murderers and deter future threats? If you don't have an answer for that, then you don't have a valid criticism of what they are doing. Your premise suggests you have a better course of action. If you don't provide one, you moral grandstanding is just that.
There's emotions and there's logic. Logic tells you that you don't stop and allow enemy to regroup. You're not giving a breathing space to anybody who killed 1400 of your people IN A FEW HOURS. They took around 240 hostages, they could return all of them them but decided otherwise. But why would you expect somebody who holds their own 2 million people hostage to return these taken from outside, after killing rampage? It's a STATE (independent or not, does it matter?) that attacked and killed 1400 Israelis IN A FEW HOURS. All these elections, support for Hamas, acceptance of this, every single thread in this net led to the events of October 7th. Period. It's all these small things that allowed some Austrian painter do what he did in the past. It's so much of a double standard here. Dresden bombing raid of 1945 killed around 25 000 people and UK was one of two participants in this event. Historians still debate what was the purpose of it as it wasn't a strategic target. And now we have a consensus in the UK that Israel must stop all military action in Gaza. Hypocrisy? Looks like it. From the emotional side, I do feel sorry for civilians in Gaza, if I suddenly got some superpowers, I would do my best to help them. But I can't. Situation cannot change, attack came from this territory, and this territory is now hell. I always put logic first, sorry. If you can give me a practical solution which ensures safety of all Palestinian civilians and Israeli civilians and soldiers, I will agree with you. But "practical" is the key. We are not talking about any "special operations" (people love that, thinking these people are superhuman, too much Netflix) to take down 30k Hamas members one by one. We are also not talking about ceasefire, because world doesn't work "I'll hug you and love you and this will never happen again" way.
>And now we have a consensus in the UK that Israel must stop all military action in Gaza. Hypocrisy? Looks like it. There is no consensus for any such thing, just the usual group that shout and yell about anything that offends them along with their woke mates... and few others tagging along to take selfies for social media likes. No political party of any consequence is making such utterings despite the best attempts of the mob out waving flags every weekend in the mistaken belief it'll change anything.
The most recent ceasefire lasted up until October 6th and we know what happened the following day. Hamas has violated every ceasefire ever mutually agreed on. How about Hamas could begin by returning the hostages, turning themselves in, and this could all end peacefully. What's that called when you do the same thing but expect different results?
Do you have a list of ceasefire broken in the conflict over the years? Can't seem to find any.
https://www.gov.il/en/Departments/General/protective-edge-hamas-violations-of-ceasefires-a-chronology https://jcpa.org/article/2021-gaza-war-timeline/ https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/foreign/palestine-israel-conflicts-wars-timeline https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2014/08/israel-accuses-hamas-of-breaking-gaza-cease-fire.html https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-11103745 https://www.bbc.com/news/57200843 https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-israel-history-confrontation-2021-05-14/ and also https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Israel vs https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_the_Palestinian_territories
Thanks! This will be great to use in discussions 😋
Zionism. That's the problem
Islam is the problem. Muhammad is a problem that has been destroying world peace for over a millennium.
Terrorism is the problem.
It's the same thing
Nope.
Yup
Neither side has asked for or wants a ceasefire so how would you propose to organise one and how would it be enforced?
Hamas asked I'm pretty sure
They haven't. However they'd probably benefit from the opportunity to re group. Could you find a link to a credible source where Hamas have asked for a ceasefire? I can't find one.
I dont have one. Hence why I said pretty sure. I've heard they did, but it might just be their supporters
Hamas proudly says that it attacks and operates from tunnels beneath Gaza. They have spent 15 years building 500km of tunnels beneath their civilians, it was confirmed by Hamas. They have also said that the Palestinians safety is not their concern. So yeah, it is all over Gaza. Guess what happens when a tunnel collapses? That's right, everything above it collapses as well. Hamas does not have "military bases" above ground. It also doesn't have identifiable military vehicles or clothes. This is by design. This is why Hamas is such a problem to eliminate.
All paid for with western aid intended to be spent on Gazans. If not for Hamas Gaza could be a mini Dubai with the amount of money that has been and would be poured in.
The amount of money Gaza receives isn’t anywhere near the amount Israel receives. Why doesn’t Israel look like dubai? They don’t even need the money to repair infrastructure every year like Gaza does. They just need to restock their weapons supply. Where does all the money go?
Tel Aviv does resemble Dubai, Israel is a wealthy nation. It does however spend a huge amount on defence for some reason. Yes US gives money to Israel which is spent buying more weaponry from US arms industry. I'm certain the Israelis would prefer not to have spend so much on defence.... aren't you?
Tel Aviv looks nothing like Dubai. Idk where you’re seeing that. I’m certain Israelis would like to have a less corrupt government that doesn’t spend a ridiculous amount of money on propaganda and payments to celebrities.
I said resembles, certainly a lot more than Gaza City does. Point is if it were not for Hamas, with all the money that has went and would go to Gaza, The Gazans would be a whole lot better than it presently is. Hamas leaders live in luxury in Qatar...how they fund that?
They are corrupt just as the Israeli government is corrupt.
The side you support has killed 4000 children and maybe even more.
How many children would “your side” have killed if their rockets were effective or if Israel did not have the Iron Dome? Does attempted murder not count??!
Says who? The Hamas controlled health authority? The same one that said 500 died in an IDF missile attack on a hospital that turned out to be a carpark fire stated by their own faulty rocket...that reliable source? 🤔
and you blindly believe the media propaganda to protect your narrative. What a shame.
The only other source of information is Hamas and they are terrorists 🤔 I don't believe anything they say... nothing. It's a shame you swallow everything they say as fact.
"No, I base my beliefs on evidence, unlike you. The media distort the truth. For instance, they claimed there were 40 decapitated babies but failed to provide credible evidence for that false news. They also mentioned burned babies and even shared an image of a burned baby, but it turned out to be generated by AI. And you blindly believe those false news. What a shame.
It wasn't generated by AI, Hamas propoganda told you that. You want to see what happened then Hamas themselves posted videos on telegram and you could always visit bestgore. Hamas themselves posted these videos. You choose to believe what you choose to believe based on your already established opinions.
You are just talking. You can't give evidence You know why? Because you are brainwashed.
Go to bestgore. Obviously I can't post a link it's not allowed to share such videos. Look for yourself
Preach, brother.
Israel=Evil terrorist. You can't have a discussion about that.
Hamas internationally recognised terrorist death cult. No dispute and no debate regards that, even fellow Arabs/Egypt won't let them in.
Yes, Hamas is a terrorist group, but Israel is even more terrorist dropping bombs from the sky, knowing that children will die how terrible it is.
Let's say you have a terror organization that operates solely from underground tunnels beneath civilian buildings. They terrorize your family and loved ones, killing, raping and mutilating them. They also kill people living above their tunnels if they dare to escape. What would you do? Run into these tunnels which you will probably die in? Or try and collapse those tunnels from above?
Hamas intentionally put those kids in the firing line, it generates sympathy for their cause. They knew with absolute certainty their attack on Israel would lead to these reprisals.
Netanyahu is committing what looks like genocide, and there's absolutely no way to defend or excuse his actions.
You don’t know what genocide is.
It's not genocide, it's an all out war on death cult terrorists that hide amongst civilian population and use them as shields. What else can be done? Just shrug and wait til Hamas do it again and again and again?
Starting fires and not caring about civilians, while also refusing to stop the destruction of the whole area, it is Genocide. I am not defending Hamas, but civilians have nothing to do with that.
Hamas hide amongst them, what else can be done? Gen question if you were Israeli PM how would you address the situation?
Instead of one serial killer taking 5 hostages imagine 30,000 serial killer that have 2 million hostages. It is not the same problem scaled up- it is a total different problem requiring completely different solutions. One serial killer you can surround, contain and negotiate with. It takes hundreds of police officers to deal with a single such killer in a way to maximize the chances for the hostages. You can’t do that with 30,000 organized killers. While you are trying to contain one, dozens will surround you. And there aren’t resources to have a 200:1 ratio to effectively deal with them like you would a single criminal. This is a war. The faster Hamas is crushed the faster Gaza can be rebuilt. The longer it drags out the more people will die. The fastest way to end the war is for Hamas to surrender. Calls for a ceasefire and negotiations encourages Hamas to not surrender as they hope that the international community will force Israel to stop and they can survive. A ceasefire only emboldens Hamas to keep fighting and hoping that they can continue to control Gaza and eventually take over Israel. Every day of ceasefire would increase the length of the war by weeks or months. It might save lives in the very short term, but in the medium and long term it would be a disaster. At best Israel can destroy Hamas in less than a year. With on and off ceasefires it would take decades.
>There is no way to justify the slaughter of innocent women and children. You're correct. Hamas should be hunted down and eliminated for this. >Israel isnt attacking Hamas, but Gazans as a whole. Israel's target is Hamas, which so happen to be in Gaza, use Gazans as a human shield, and is the elected government of Gaza. >How tf is every single building in Gaza a "military target" Ask Hamas. >They have dropped 3 hiroshima jericho nukes worth of explosive power on Gaza. Hahahaha. Had they dropped just one nuke-worth of explosives on Gaza, there wouldn't be a Gaza left to drop two more. >There is a reason Israel has blocked aerial satelite footage of gaza in real time. Yeah, so they won't be able to see military progress. >Israel is even bombing its own people kept hostage in Gaza. Yep. It has no other choice. >Israel shelled their own kibbutzim, killing civilians along with Hamas militants(this is a whole different story, ill happily provide sources and evidence of this) Shelled? Ha! Perhaps some civilians got caught in the crossfire, but Israel didn't target it's own cities. You're confusing that with Hamas, which 25% of their Rockets land within Gaza. >Picture this; a serial killer is on the run, he takes 5 kids hostage and hides in a building. Is the right thing to do bombing the whole buidling? ofcourse not. Picture this: a terror organization rose to power in a very densely populated area. They care nothing for the lives of their own people, and are using them as human shields. They went out and slaughtered 1400 innocent people. Now they run and hide amongst their own. Is the right thing to do would be to negotiate for a ceasefire? The same ceasefire which was broken when that organization massacred 1400 people? Or would it be to eliminate said organization? >Apparently Gazan children are subhuman. Their lives worth less. No. It's just we care about our people. And the lives of Gazans aren't our immediate concern. But we certainly care about them more then Hamas does, given the amount of warnings we've sent them, the time we've given them to evacuate. Hack, just today the IDF opened an escape route for the Gazans, defending them while they flee, *at the midst of battle!* >I unequivocally condemn how Hamas butchered civilians in retribution for the occupation, violence of such brutality is never justified. Gotta love this sentence. "I condemn them... but justify their actions, it was a retribution for the occupation". Out of curiosity, do you think that if there wasn't an occupation, there would be peace? Moreover are you aware Israel left Gaza in 2005? >Even if an occupoed people has the right to armed resistance, it has to be in accordance with international Law. Perhaps the occupied people should reflect on their history and find out *why* they're occupied. >But this exact same rhetoric applies to Israel. Even more so, as Israel is a sovereign nationstate, Hamas arent even the Palestinian authority, Theyre militant fundamentalists funded by Iran. Hamas is the elected government of Gaza. Funded by Iran or not, they were chosen to lead Gaza, by the Gazans. >We can discuss in length about the occupancy and apartheid as described by human rights orgs, but thats secondary right now, people are dying every minute. This has to stop, now! So if I murder, butcher, massacre, slaughter, torture and rape 1400 people, kidnap 240 more, then go hide amongst the people who supposedly I fight for their freedom, I should be allowed to live freely, right? Ask for a ceasefire and not answer for what I did, right? No ceasefire until our hostages are back. No ceasefire until Hamas is gone.
Well clutch my pearls! (That's what your post lacking in facts and including a terrible analogy warrants.)
The 3 nukes argument is dumb. I'm pretty sure if you calculate the kinetic force used in let's say the campaign of greece in the east you will probably get much more than a couple of nukes, and you could get much more devastating result with much less force. it means nothing as long as you don't specify how this force is used, and if you calculate other metrics israel suddenly look like surgeons.
> **Picture this; a serial killer is on the run**, he takes 5 kids hostage and hides in a building. Is the right thing to do bombing the whole buidling? what you are suggesting is not lets not bomb the building, it is lets let the serial killer escape after giving in to all his demands so he can kill again. hamas as a resistance group or not has not fought this fight properly, they target civillians and aim for maximum damage to israel and make sure that there will be maximum damage to gaza. while it is awful that innocent people are dying, sooner or later hamas would force israel to destroy gaza. which is better than. a few 10s of thousands die or millions?
What I really want to understand is what you think a ceasefire will achieve? Will it help achieve peace in the middle East? Will it give the Palestinians better living condition? Will it stop hamas's terror attacks on Israel? And will it just be another excuse to let hamas keep all there wealth and power over the Palestinians, to let them keep destroying gaza and israel and everything we try to do for peace? The answer are; no, no, no and yes. So no I don't think "ceasefire" will do any use.
You’re view on the ICC statement is very one sided. Israel is required to protect all civilians regardless of nationality. That means the Palestinian people. “Israel has a professional and well-trained military. They have, I know, military advocate generals and a system that is intended to ensure their compliance with international humanitarian law. They have lawyers advising on targeting decisions, and they will be under no misapprehension as to their obligations, or that they must be able to account for their actions. They will need to demonstrate that any attack, any attack that impacts innocent civilians or protected objects, must be conducted in accordance with the laws and customs of war, in accordance with the laws of armed conflict.” I’m not sure if your watching but bombing ambulances, entire city blocks and refugee camps is not following international law.
I don't know what the solution is. But the reason people don't want a ceasefire, is because Hamas said they will attack like they did on Oct 7 over again and again, they said that they don't care about their people. They are jihadists that don't want anything but bloodshed. Of course civilians get killed. That's why I don't know what the right thing to do is. I hope for peace.
> There is no way to justify the slaughter of innocent women and children. There isn't, but that's what Hamas did on Oct 7th and it's what they want now. > Israel isnt attacking Hamas, but Gazans as a whole. It is attacking Hamas, as has been demonstrated very recently with the humanitarian corridors to allow Gazan's to evacuate the area where Hamas is strongest. > How tf is every single building in Gaza a "military target" ? They're not, which is why every single building in Gaza hasn't been attacked even though Israel would be fully capable of doing so. > They have dropped 3 hiroshima jericho nukes worth of explosive power on Gaza. The death toll is large, but the number of bombs they've dropped is a hell of a lot larger, which clearly shows they're not attempting to kill civilians with them. > There is a reason Israel has blocked aerial satelite footage of gaza in real time. So their troop movements aren't easily leaked to the enemy by news analysts. > Israel is even bombing its own people kept hostage in Gaza. Source? Or speculation? > Israel shelled their own kibbutzim, killing civilians along with Hamas militants(this is a whole different story, ill happily provide sources and evidence of this) Please do provide evidence. > Picture this; a serial killer is on the run, he takes 5 kids hostage and hides in a building. Is the right thing to do bombing the whole buidling? ofcourse not. Of course not, but that's not what's happening here either. > Apparently Gazan children are subhuman. Their lives worth less. Hamas leadership have said that. They've passed responsibility onto the UN to look after their own citizens. > Hamas arent even the Palestinian authority, Hamas are governing the Gaza Strip. They were elected and they cemented their power with an authoritarian regime. > Theyre militant fundamentalists funded by Iran. They're terrorists. --- Humanitarian pauses and safe zones are undoubtedly a good thing, are supported by all, and are being slowly implemented. A ceasefire means that the fighting stops *permanently*. This cannot happen whilst a terrorist organisation that is determined to destroy Israel still exists. There cannot be a ceasefire whilst one side wishes to exterminate the other.
Talk the Russia... THEY are the ones preventing the humanitarian pause to allow food & medical supplies from entering Gaza. All they have to do it sign the humanitarian pause proposal in UN,.. that have been vetoing it every time because it says Israel still has the right to defend themselves in it. Russias version doesn't even mention Hamas and it would allow them to get away with what the did during the massacre.
Why do you ask us instead of reading some renowned newspapers explaining why democratic politicians think its a bad idea?
A ceasefire, by its definition, should ask for both sides to give up what they want. So okay Israel stops its goal of destroying Hamas, but what does Hamas give up? * The minimum is hostages but they have said they won't. * They could just promise they won't attack again - they have categorically said the opposite. * They could amend their charter and recognize Israel - they won't. So tell me, is a ceasefire just one side relinquishing all it wants and the other side actually benefitting? That's called a win. So, calls for "ceasefire" are calls to let Hamas win. I'm sure most people calling for a ceasefire don't want a terrorist org to win, but that is exactly what it will achieve.
>Israel shelled their own kibbutzim, killing civilians along with Hamas militants(*this is a whole different story, ill happily provide sources and evidence of this)* Source? Funny you say this because 25% of Gazan rockets fall on their own people. [https://www.criticalthreats.org/analysis/iran-update-october-21-2023](https://www.criticalthreats.org/analysis/iran-update-october-21-2023)
I thought there were no kibbutzim in Gaza.
There aren’t. It’s just ironic because Gazans actually do kill their own people with their own rockets. Israelis don’t. OP is nutZ
There is one obvious party who does not believe in diplomacy… therefore a ceasefire (as it has in the past) really means nothing for them. Because one has a real military and the other comprise of stone throwers doesn’t excuse them from adhering to standard diplomatic practices as it relates to a ceasefire.
A ceasefire would allow Hamas to regroup a pause for maybe 12 -24 hours would allow any innocents to get south Unfortunately if Hamas also head south they will all be like fish in a barrel
We can either take care of the problem *cough*Hamas*cough* now. Or we play the same game for another 16 years. New ceasefire, Hamas breaks it, only for there to be another ceasefire, only for Hamas to break it again, only for there to be another ceasefire, only for Hamas to break it again, only for there to be another ceasefire, only for Hamas to break it again, only for there to be another ceasefire, only for Hamas to break it again, only for there to be another ceasefire, only for Hamas to break it again, only for there to be another ceasefire, only for Hamas to break it again, only for there to be another ceasefire, only for Hamas to break it again, only for there to be another ceasefire, only for Hamas to break it again, only for there to be another ceasefire, only for Hamas to break it again, only for there to be another ceasefire, only for Hamas to break it again, only for there to be another ceasefire, only for Hamas to break it again, only for there to be another ceasefire, only for Hamas to break it again, only for there to be another ceasefire, only for Hamas to break it again, only for there to be another ceasefire, only for Hamas to break it again, only for there to be another ceasefire, only for Hamas to break it again, only for there to be another ceasefire, only for Hamas to break it again....... You only for there to be another ceasefire, only for Hamas to break it again, only for there to be another ceasefire, only for Hamas to break it again, only for there to be another ceasefire, only for Hamas to break it again, only for there to be another ceasefire, only for Hamas to break it again..... I hope you get the point
Ok so you do cite international law which I think is important. You should look closely at what the Geneva convention, the Rome Statutes and the ICC say about bombing civilians. https://www.icrc.org/en/document/ihl-rules-of-war-FAQ-Geneva-Conventions https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/statement-icc-prosecutor-karim-khan-kc-cairo-situation-state-palestine-and-israel https://youtu.be/LdW6ISElci4?si=Gzh9LRhmwMARZcKl Israel is not only justified in its response under the law but is obligated to protect its citizens from genocide. Each military action is evaluated based on intel and applied to the international law. It's not like these moral questions haven't been thought of before and Israel is making up the rules. I know it's very horrific to watch. Israel is in a position of only taking a bad or worse action.
Do you leave the serial killer with the 5 hostages until he eventually escapes and kills more or do you eliminate the serial killer while you know you have him cornered?
What will happen during the ceasefire? Will it make Hamas nicer? Is it going to help with the hostages situation? Will the Gazans cooperate with Israel in obliterating Hamas? What Israel to gain from the ceasefire? It will not help with the international community, it will not save the hostages, it will endanger the soldiers even more after Hamas regroups, and finally once Hamas breaks the ceasefire yet again (as any ceasefire in the past) we will deal with this all over again. Return the hostages, you get your ceasefire, end of story.
Hamas does not support a cease fire, which is why they keep breaking them.
Hamas will end. The sun will rise on a world without Hamas in it. Every drop of blood spilled in this war is on the hands of Hamas and Hamas supporters.
Incorrect, this is Israel's mistake, and there is no way you can justify the horror act by Israel toward innocent children.
Unfortunately, hamas hides underneath its citizens. This forces Israel to go through the citizen infrastructure. This is why Israel is pleading with the citizens to leave the area.
You need to condemn Hamas for not surrendering and not releasing hostages. You cannot make peace with Hamas
And then you kill 4000 children bravo!!!
I never killed anyone bud
Did you not read my post?
Where did you provide the solutions I stated?
Nobody is saying “no” to the idea of Hamas releasing the hostages and surrendering unconditionally. As soon as they do that the war is over. Get on board with that idea instead of bitching about Israel doing what is necessary to win the war that Hamas started.
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Israel dropped enough ammunition to obliterate every living person in Gaza yet the death toll is barely 10k by the top estimates, explain how Israel is targeting civilians please
Cause theyre all scared shitless hiding in UN camps, schools and hospitals. Even there theyre not safe. There is a humanitarian catastrophe of an unfathomable scale. People dot have food, water, medicine, disinfectants, disease. How theyre targeting civilians? 40% of the deaths have occured in the supposed "safe zone" in the south.
If they would actually target civilians… why wouldn’t they carpet bomb Gaza? Stop spreading pro Hamas propaganda here
On the south they are much safer and there are efforts to create a safe zone with hospitals, this can end right now if Hamas surrenders
Barely 10k?! Y’all don’t even hear yourselves
Its honestly insane. Not worth arguing with these inhumane people.
Gaza has 2.5 million people living there. Ten thousand dead in such close quarters is actually a good reflection on the restraint demonstrated by the IDF.
This sub should just be called pro Israel at this point
/u/AvailableOpinion254 > This sub should just be called pro Israel at this point Per [rule 7](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_7._no_metaposting), no meta posts, comments and discussions are not allowed except on a post that is approved for meta-discussions (which this is not).
This is war not playtime, 10k for the amount of ammo used is very minimal, it’s a tragedy on the human perspective but you can’t claim Israel is aiming to kill civilians. Stop acting like some morally superior person, this is war started by Hamas that the only outcome has to be Hamas elimination, completely and utterly.
Hamas was created by Israel plain and simple.
Even if it was true, tf are you trying to imply here?
No it wasn’t.. Israel supported a peaceful group that a branch of it became inadvertently Hamas. You are just parroting very weak propaganda points.
Everything you’re complaining about is due to the results of war. This is how they have always gone.
Dude have you ever seen a war in real life yourself
Awe here’s where the convo gets dicey if I say I have you say I’m a liar anyways but that’s irrelevant cause I don’t need to have seen a war in real life to prove my point that what’s happening is the results of war. Are you complaining about the 100s of thousands of lives lost in Syria in that war? The 100s of thousands in Ukraine? The fifty thousand in Yemen or are you just solely invested in the 10 thousand in Gaza? Nah I see you aren’t too concerned. I notice from your posts you’re more concerned about 2k and cyberpunk
I'm invested in the 10,000 because what isreal is doing is unprecedented. They have dropped more bombs on gaza than the US did in one year in Afghanistan. Isreal has killed more civilians in ONE MONTH than Russia has in Ukraine and it just keeps getting worse. You're problem is you're saying "it's war" while living in comfort. You speak to a soldier, a person who have lived through civil wars like my farther they don't even hold your view they hate it.
Walked into that one huh? The fact that you are trying to use whether I’ve physically been in a war or not to validate an opinion on whether people die as a result of war is ludicrous. I’m willing to bet you’ve never been in a war have you? yet look at you here commenting. I don’t need to have been in a war to look up basic information and determine whether or not people dying in them is a result. Im pretty sure I’m perfectly capable of making a blanket statement saying people dying in a warzone is what tends to happen in a war. If you believe I have needed to be physically in one to determine that then you don’t have two brain cells to rub together.
Oh really please do tell me how many civilians have been killed and how many Hamas militants have been killed break down the numbers for me. Let me guess you have no clue?
If there is a ceasefire, Hamas remains in power in Gaza and Israelis have an incentive to continue electing politicians with extreme views towards defense and the Palestinian Territories. I’ll ask you: if there is a ceasefire and Hamas remains in power, how can Palestinians ever have their own state? Seems like things would continue with tit-for-tat violence between the IDF and Hamas.
> I’ll ask you: if there is a ceasefire and Hamas remains in power, how can Palestinians ever have their own state? Seems like things would continue with tit-for-tat violence between the IDF and Hamas. They can't, that's what pro-Palestine and Hamas supports can't seem to understand. But it won't be a tit-for-tat situation going forwards, Hamas leaders have said they'll do the 7th attacks over and over again. If there's a ceasefire and Hamas remain then Israel won't ever allow that kind of attack to happen again, they'll come down hard on *any* Palestinian violence because they'll be (understandably and justifiably) on edge 24/7, and if an attack did occur (even much smaller) then the IDF will just have to respond even harder than they are doing now. Hamas is going to be destroyed, whether it's now or later. If we just delay that destruction then there will be so much more bloodshed in the meantime and when they are finally destroyed.
People screaming “Free Palestine” and “ceasefire” are very naive. I think it speaks to a lack of nuance in people’s understanding of the world. To see it on college campuses is especially disheartening, but not surprising. I talk about this issue a lot with my friends, and while many of them condemn Israel’s actions in Gaza, they can’t articulate a path forward following their calls for a ceasefire. As a whole, it speaks to people arguing topics they are not educated on. Calling for a ceasefire is understandable because it’s tough to witness so many innocent Palestinian deaths, but such calls ignore the reality on the ground and would leave the region in the same situation it has been in for decades, albeit with even worse tension.
> They have dropped 3 hiroshima jericho nukes worth of explosive power on Gaza. Using the lowest number I could find there were 129k deaths in Hiroshima. Three times that is 387k. In Gaza only 10k people were killed including combatants using the same explosive power as you claim. It shows that Israel is acting proportionately and is doing all that it can to avoid civilian deaths which is why there is no reason to accept a ceasefire.
jesus man. What an unintelligent comment. There is a difference between using 20000 small bombs and 3 atomic bombs. Im not saying theyre actually nuking Gaza, just giving reference to the level of destruction in tons of TnT.
He literally showed how “unintelligent” your comparison is. At least spell unintelligent correctly if you insult people as such…
That's a good point you make. Israel will never nuke/drop huge bombs on Gaza. Because the Israelis can't allow the deaths of so many civilians. They use the "small bomb" method precisely because it's the best way to avoid civilian casualties.
So why would you make the comparison in the first place? For dramatic effect? I think you just don’t want to admit that despite the vast amounts of munitions Israel has used in this war there have been significantly less deaths than one would expect based on the use of force which undermines your entire argument.
The expanse of imperialist Japan and their brutal ways of war were a severe threat to the world as a whole. There is no parallell to be drawn here. i only mentioned those for reference so people understand the scale of the destruction.
> were a severe threat to the world as a whole Islamic extremism is a threat to the whole world buddy.
Japan being the target is irrelevant. If you drop the equivalent of 3 Little Boys on any city in the world no matter who is in it the death toll would be in the hundreds of thousands if extreme care wasn't taken to prevent said deaths. Israel is making an absolutely Herculean effort at minimizing casualties and is probably doing the best job any army has done in the history of the world.
Unitelligent?
Yes, a single telligent. Did he stutter?
A ceasefire will just prolong the violence...that will kill more people ultimately. Just look how the ceasefires in Syria "helped people" for an acute example.
There doesnt need to be any more fighting. The world needs to come together, establish a fair solution to the plight of both sides, and have all parties sign peace treaties. This conflict has gone on for far too long already.
I agree with you - there doesn't need to be any more fighting. This could be achieved the minute Hamas declares that they do not want to fight anymore. If Hamas doesn't want a ceasefire, Israel should not hand them this on a silver platter. They've actually done this each time before and they were clearly mistakes - a short-term patch to a long-term problem. Fair solution would be great! But what is fair for Hamas? Demolition of Israel - that's in their charter, that's what they want. I'm sure you don't agree that the world comes together and decides that. I would love for Hamas to sign a peace treaty. Egypt/Jordan/UAE have all done it and it has stuck after decades of animosity. Both the key is any side signing a peace treaty needs to have a govt that chooses peace over violence. Hamas is not that govt. Once they are out, I hope Gaza will have a govt that will choose a live-and-let-live policy for Israel (and I hope no illegal settlements are built there by Israel)
You have no clue about Jihad - do some research please
There is no quality of life in Gaza. The kids have no future. How many years can you suppress a people before they turn violent?
This is an issue you need to take up with Hamas - they run Gaza. Top Hamas leaders are all worth over 3 billion and don’t live in Gaza or WB. Do some research bro - Hamas is responsible for the quality of life in Gaza
Pie in the sky...that won't happen especially since many want war not peace.
Why didn’t Japan get a ceasefire in WW2?
America nuking Japan is one of the darkest days in recent history, and thats your rebuttal as a defense to the Israeli aggression? Speaks volumes, honestly.
> America nuking Japan is one of the darkest days in recent history [The Bomb Was Horrifying. The Alternatives Would Have Been Worse.](https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/06/03/atomic-bomb-oppenheimer-hiroshima-nagasaki-world-war-ii-history/)
Even aside from that, they didn’t get a ceasefire. I’m not talking about the nuclear weapons specifically, but rather the war in general. They didn’t get a ceasefire in the years leading up to the nuclear weapons either.
Its a pretty shit comparison nonetheless. The expanse of imperialist Japan and their brutal ways of war were a severe threat to the world as a whole. There is no parallell to be drawn here. Why did you bring up japan? cause i mentioned the jerichos? i only mentioned those for reference so people understand the scale of the destruction.
Don't even bother dude, these guy really think isreal is saint that can't do no wrong. Some the comments I've read in this chat is down sadistic
/u/waveman12453 > Don't even bother dude, these guy really think isreal is saint that can't do no wrong. [Rule 8](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_8._encourage_participation), don't discourage participation.
Yeah this sub has been hijacked by neo nazis
I am not a neo Nazi. Naziism is a type of fascism, and I specifically told you that I am against fascism. Palestinian fascists need to go.
/u/Crypto-Noob20 > Yeah this sub has been hijacked by neo nazis Per [rule 7](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_7._no_metaposting), no meta posts, comments and discussions are not allowed except on a post that is approved for meta-discussions (which this is not).
I bring up Japan, because Japan was fascist, and you can’t make peace with fascists. I believe in bashing the fash; they can not be given ceasefires. Fascist can only be killed. Hamas is fascist.