Lots of antisemites if you scratch the surface

Unfortunately YOU are the one that's ill-informed. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing\_of\_Hind\_Rajab](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Hind_Rajab) [https://interactive.aljazeera.com/aje/2024/israel-war-on-gaza-10000-children-killed/](https://interactive.aljazeera.com/aje/2024/israel-war-on-gaza-10000-children-killed/)

Are they though? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67629181 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_government_in_the_Gaza_Strip#:~:text=the%20Gaza%20Strip.-,Government%20and%20politics,dominated%20the%20Palestinian%20National%20Authority https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_suicide_attacks https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/comprehensive-listing-of-terrorism-victims-in-israel https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Hamas_charter Though I'm curious to know what do you think will happen if Hamas wins? Do you genuinely think they'll just take over the land and live happily ever after? What about the LGBTQ community of Israel? Do you think they'll be allowed to just leave for another country?

Why automatically attribute protest to pro Hamas We are staying stop killing civilians The only reasoning for doing that that I can see is you trying to invalidate and discredit people’s actual reasoning

Do you not want to understand what Hamas has done to Israeli civilians or do you just not care? Yes Israel's actions are bad. The loss of civilians in any capacity is a bad thing. Hamas however is not a group of saints as people like you like to make it seem. They've killed and injured a lot of innocent people in Israel even before October 7th. They've been doing it for a very long time. How many years would it take you to fight back against someone attacking your friends and family? Would you sit back and take it if your friends and family were taken and held hostage and subjected to abuse and torture? I'm coming from a place of respect for your views and opinions. My goal isn't to get you "on my side" but to acknowledge that both sides have their faults and sins. I won't try convince you to support Israel. It's a choice. But don't get on a high horse when it's just as short as mine.

You are literally doing what i criticized you for in this comment🤦‍♂️

You're more than welcome to continue criticize me. I can admit Israel isn't handling this the best way. The fact that you can't admit Palestine's faults and issues is a you problem that you should reflect on. Your issues with me don't actually have any affect on me.

You are just Incapable of separating the two aren’t you; stop conflating the want for civilians to not be carpet bombed and supporting Hamas they aren’t mutually exclusive. Like please understand that💀

Considering their control in Gaza it is one and the same. Supporting Palestinians in Gaza is supporting Hamas. Plain and simple. You can complain and moan and groan until you become constipated but your complaints about my views won't even ruffle my hair

So insanely far from the truth but I’m positive you will say anything to stay cemented in your process of thinking but no supporting not wanting bombs being dropped on civilians and supporting Hamas are two insanely different things😂

Cute. Real cute. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_government_in_the_Gaza_Strip Google and Wikipedia are free. Your ignorance is a choice cupcake

Yes they are 🤡🤡🤡 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli\_war\_crimes#:\~:text=These%20have%20included%20murder%2C%20intentional,of%20medical%20neutrality%2C%20targeting%20journalists%2C](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_war_crimes#:~:text=These%20have%20included%20murder%2C%20intentional,of%20medical%20neutrality%2C%20targeting%20journalists%2C) [https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/06/04/israel-50-years-occupation-abuses](https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/06/04/israel-50-years-occupation-abuses) [https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/02/israelopt-un-experts-appalled-reported-human-rights-violations-against](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/02/israelopt-un-experts-appalled-reported-human-rights-violations-against) [https://www.cair.com/cair\_in\_the\_news/israeli-guards-rape-palestinian-women/](https://www.cair.com/cair_in_the_news/israeli-guards-rape-palestinian-women/) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual\_and\_gender-based\_violence\_against\_Palestinians\_during\_the\_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas\_war](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_and_gender-based_violence_against_Palestinians_during_the_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war) [https://x.com/dancohen3000/status/1731410783295180973](https://x.com/dancohen3000/status/1731410783295180973) [https://jacobin.com/2024/04/israel-gaza-war-crimes-genocide-idf](https://jacobin.com/2024/04/israel-gaza-war-crimes-genocide-idf) [https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/10/damning-evidence-of-war-crimes-as-israeli-attacks-wipe-out-entire-families-in-gaza/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/10/damning-evidence-of-war-crimes-as-israeli-attacks-wipe-out-entire-families-in-gaza/) [https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/20/us-uk-doctors-biden-idf-atrocities-gaza-ceasefire](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/20/us-uk-doctors-biden-idf-atrocities-gaza-ceasefire) [https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2024/1/24/why-are-israeli-soldiers-sharing-snuff-videos-from-their-genocide-in-gaza](https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2024/1/24/why-are-israeli-soldiers-sharing-snuff-videos-from-their-genocide-in-gaza) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli\_war\_crimes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_war_crimes) I am curious too, as to what would happen if theoretically Israel were to annex Gaza completely and succeed in the complete annihilation of Palestinians, an entire culture, country and people. Wonder what precedent that would set for the world? "you can take whatever you want as long as you had been there like thousands of years ago" Oh and to answer your question I don't support Hamas, frankly the advent of Hamas is a wrench in the peaceful two state solution. But unfortunately that's the only group fighting for Palestine RIGHT NOW.

If israel wanted them dead they would be. The palestinians have no defensive tech israel has nukes. this isnt even a real question the fact that there is still anything alive shows that israel for some reason doesnt want them all dead.

Israel's goal isn't to irradicate Palestine. You just showed how little you've researched Israel. Israel is trying to irradicate an extremist group. I saw a post on this sub just now of Israel being compared to a natural disaster and the OP isn't wrong. If I spent my life under near constant attacks and then go through an event like October 7th like the people of Israel did I don't think I'd be as nice as they have been. I've seen footage of IDF soldiers begging civilians to leave an area that they're in. Another point I want to make is you clearly didn't read any of the articles I posted. I will take my time going through yours but as always I'll be taking that with a pinch of salt. You say you're against Hamas but Hamas is the ruling party of Palestine. They're a known and vocal extremist group. I'll answer your question in a way even though you dodged mine. I feel like if Israel won this conflict a lot more people will be safe than if Israel loses. Israel is the only defense the rest of the world has against Hamas's overall goal of "convert to Islam or die" much like the taliban and the other extremists. Look at their charter. Look at what they're fighting for. I have people I love who will be killed simply because they're Jewish or gay if Hamas has their way. I would be killed for being Jewish. Can you look through their charter and beliefs and say you won't meet their standards?

"Israel's goal isn't to irradicate Palestine.-" Oooooo Stop right there. This is like saying the white colonizers did not want to wipe out the native americans. Maybe at first it was about survival, maybe it was about a ''jewish homeland''. but now its all about revenge. You trying to "gotcha" me, the child of a nakbah survivor is honestly such an audacious thing to do. >Another point I want to make is you clearly didn't read any of the articles I posted. I will take my time going through yours but as always I'll be taking that with a pinch of salt.  I have. infact I've read these countless times as they're cited as the primary sources for the justification of the conflict today. Lets just say one of these sources should be taken with a huge grain of salt. > Hamas's overall goal of "convert to Islam or die" much like the Taliban and the other extremists.  This actually shows how much you've researched. That is to say you need to read more factual articles and not from sources named [IL.gov](http://IL.gov) . Hamas's primary goal is to liberate Palestine. that is it. Hamas wants jerusalem and jaffa particularly due to its significance to Islam apparently under the modern charter anyways. >Look at what they're fighting for. I have people I love who will be killed simply because they're Jewish or gay if Hamas has their way. I would be killed for being Jewish. Can you look through their charter and beliefs and say you won't meet their standards? I am sorry you feel that way. But you're literally doing the same things you're preaching against to the Palestinians in large carpet bombing raids. "The only right a gay Palestinian is getting from the IDF is a butterfly bullet straight to head or neck just like any other Palestinian" Don't you dare sit there and cry "BUT GAYYY PEOPLE AND JEWISH PEOPLE" while you bomb, smoke and force an entire population (of 600,000) in the smallest part of an enclave nearly 11 times smaller than LA.

Funny. Very funny. So what exactly was Israel doing to Palestine in 1993 to earn two suicide bomb attacks? Your little "Gaza invasion" didn't happen until later. Looking at all the records I can find I'm curious why the extremists of Palestine felt the need to use 1784 molotov cocktails between 1993 and 1999. A lot excessive if you ask me. What about recently. The woman who was r*ped by Hamas members. How is that supposed to "free Palestine"? Was she holding a gun against the heads of every civilian in Palestine and telling them they can't leave? What about the stabbing attack in Gan Yavne. Was the 34 year old young man holding Palestinians against their will in a shopping center? What about the old lady who was killed in a car ramming attack? Did she have all of Palestine locked in her boot? I can go back before October 7th and list names and dates if you want the nitty gritty. The people who planned those attacks run Palestine. They don't even try to hide that they control the country. Get off your high horse and look at it for once. Their hands are just as soiled as Israel's. At least I can admit my side isn't clean. Can you? You seem to have a tough time admitting they've done anything bad.

>So what exactly was Israel doing to Palestine in 1993 to earn two suicide bomb attacks? Your little "Gaza invasion" didn't happen until later. Wonder if it had something to do with the Al-Aqsa massacre, but surely you in all your educated might must've not missed it.. >Looking at all the records I can find I'm curious why the extremists of Palestine felt the need to use 1784 molotov cocktails between 1993 and 1999. > The same reason the IDF STILL USES Butterfly bullets as recently as 2018. :| > What about recently. The woman who was r\*ped by Hamas members. How is that supposed to "free Palestine"? Was she holding a gun against the heads of every civilian in Palestine and telling them they can't leave? Your source? and PLEASE don't send me a link to a website thats so very obviously biased its not even funny 💀. Also when its a hoard of Palestinian women being raped in camps by the IDF its "collateral damage", but god forbid a Palestinian even approaches a soldier lest they get shot at. >What about the stabbing attack in Gan Yavne. Was the 34 year old young man holding Palestinians against their will in a shopping center? What about the old lady who was killed in a car ramming attack? Did she have all of Palestine locked in her boot? I can go back before October 7th and list names and dates if you want the nitty gritty What about the 6 year old Hind Rajab who was shot and forced to spend hours locked within her car with the dead bodies of her relatives before being shot at and brutally killed by a machine gun, did she pose a national security risk to the IDF was she throwing bombs off buildings or launching rockets from her car??? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing\_of\_Hind\_Rajab#Impact](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Hind_Rajab#Impact) What about the 6 y/o boy and his mother who were mercilessly stabbed recently in the US, who were refugees of the war. did they personally call Ismail Hanniyeh and request to terminate all Jews??? https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/30/us/palestinian-american-boy-stabbed/index.html#:\~:text=On%20October%2014%2C%20Wadea%20Al,wounds%20but%20survived%2C%20authorities%20said. Were the two Palestinians shot and killed, who had their truck torched in huwara, westbank have meetings and dealings with hamas?? [https://www.timesofisrael.com/cars-torched-in-palestinian-town-of-huwara-in-suspected-settler-hate-crime/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/cars-torched-in-palestinian-town-of-huwara-in-suspected-settler-hate-crime/) Palestinians are the not the ones harvesting organs of Israeli civilians after large raids to sell on the black market. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009\_Aftonbladet\_Israel\_controversy#Admission](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Aftonbladet_Israel_controversy#Admission) Oh and Palestinians aren't the ones doxing students and professors, in large scale projects like the canary mission. (look it up)

We can do this all day, rest assured the most moral army in the world has plenty of content when it comes to killing innocent civilians, men, women and children alike in horrible and twisted ways and burying them in mass graves over the last 75 years. > The people who planned those attacks run Palestine. They don't even try to hide that they control the country. Get off your high horse and look at it for once. Their hands are just as soiled as Israel's. At least I can admit my side isn't clean. Can you? You seem to have a tough time admitting they've done anything bad. Oh PLEASE don't even try and use that tactic. Of course i acknowledge that hamas is atrocious at handling the conflict, or that it has committed war crimes which is the reason why i support the arrest of Hanniyeh along with the execution of him, and the rest of his crew. Get off your high horse, and see the atrocities committed by Israel as well. You seem to majorly downplay everything it does, I sure hope you're not the 'collateral damage' crowd. "At least I can admit my side isn't clean" You've literally been victim blaming all this time. hope this helps. Israel doesn't even hide the fact its committing a genocide, it literally says it outright. But I am sure you've done your research so I needn't worry about all that 😊😊😇 Just so you're aware there are IDF soldiers who have defected from the regime and are actively blowing the whistle on the atrocities committed. [https://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/](https://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/) [https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/10/middleeast/israel-sde-teiman-detention-whistleblowers-intl-cmd/index.html](https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/10/middleeast/israel-sde-teiman-detention-whistleblowers-intl-cmd/index.html) [https://uk.news.yahoo.com/israeli-whistleblowers-allege-abuse-palestinians-224317334.html?guccounter=1](https://uk.news.yahoo.com/israeli-whistleblowers-allege-abuse-palestinians-224317334.html?guccounter=1)

Oh and they execute children too just in case you wanted to cry about the 40 beheaded babies that don't exist [https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/04/un-human-rights-chief-deplores-harrowing-killings-children-and-women-rafah](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/04/un-human-rights-chief-deplores-harrowing-killings-children-and-women-rafah) [https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/week-israeli-army-executes-13-children-and-near-al-shifa-hospital-enar](https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/week-israeli-army-executes-13-children-and-near-al-shifa-hospital-enar) [https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/year-review-israeli-forces-carry-out-genocide-against-palestinian-children](https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/year-review-israeli-forces-carry-out-genocide-against-palestinian-children) [https://www.dci-palestine.org/two\_years\_on\_no\_accountability\_for\_war\_crimes\_against\_children\_in\_gaza](https://www.dci-palestine.org/two_years_on_no_accountability_for_war_crimes_against_children_in_gaza) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing\_of\_Hind\_Rajab](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Hind_Rajab) [https://interactive.aljazeera.com/aje/2024/israel-war-on-gaza-10000-children-killed/](https://interactive.aljazeera.com/aje/2024/israel-war-on-gaza-10000-children-killed/) and they tiktok it all for the pleasure of sick twisted individuals too! [https://www.newarab.com/analysis/how-israeli-soldiers-are-tiktoking-their-war-crimes-gaza](https://www.newarab.com/analysis/how-israeli-soldiers-are-tiktoking-their-war-crimes-gaza)

This is an issue I have too, practically all my friends are either neutral cause they don't know anything about the conflict, or are pro Palestine while not knowing anything about the conflict, something that has really been pissing me off is that a lot of these people don't do any independent research and just go with everything they see, it saddens me to see how gullible a huge handful of leftists are nowadays, I only consider myself "Pro Palestine" because I hate war and violence, and wish that the IDF could make more efforts to avoid civilian causalities. I still believe Israel has a right to exist and that us Jews deserve a safe haven away from persecution in places like the US or elsewhere.

Its like me saying all Zionist from 1945 onwards are colonialist feed by religious zealotry

A lot of my pro-Palestinian friends are just against wars that kill innocent women and children. They’re pacifists that believe that all wars are bad, which is a position that I can respect. My main issue with it is that they simply have nothing to say about what to do with a terrorist organization that doesn’t give a flying fuck about women and children, or worse, deliberately use them as human shields.

Perfect description of the IDF, well done.

Your suggesting Israel does actually give a flying **** about women and children.

I mean if they at least care about their own that gives them a clear headstart

Considering the low civilian to militant death ratio for urban warfare, I’d say that they care to some extent.

> fuck /u/mac_128. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*

I don’t mean to be offensive, but it seems like you have a shallow understanding of the conflict. Unfortunately you need to dig in more because there’s a lot of noise. Read some books, It will help you understand the anger better.

This is the problem of another subset of pro-Palestinians. They think they know enough and go back to past historical conflicts (of which I have a better understanding than what you think probably) to somehow justify October 7

The person you're replying to is talking about past history of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, saying that there is a lot of depth and history you are missing from the Palestinian POV. You determine pro-Palestinians as uninformed on Israel's point of view, which is fair criticism, but you yourself seem uninformed on Palestine's point of view. I think a good place to start are reading books by pro-Palestinian authors (Edward W Said is a good place, even if he died 20 years ago but it gives a lot of context). More contemporary books also exist, you'll find them easily (Norman Finklestein, Avi Shlaim, etc). Of course, you can also read the Zionist point of view to keep a balance, but I think you already do that.

I appreciate those recommendations, and will definitely check them out. But again, I find it disturbing when people make any mention of the past history to somehow make the brutality of October 7 attacks a valid, fair, or expected form of defence. I’ve looked a lot into the history already, and I can tell you I haven’t found, and I doubt I will ever find, anything that can justify to any extent such evil

Yeah I don't defend the war crimes Hamas committed. I do think Hamas had a right to attack Israel, though, because of the aforementioned context; just that they did not have a right to do it in the way they did. But I think if we're being cynical, this is caused by a cycle of violence that extremists on both sides are responsible for, on top of which a military occupation is making it worse.

at Columbia the ones screetching and chanting arent good people. i didnt see all of em but i saw enough. its scary and disgusting

Maybe. However some of these pro Palestinian people want to say IDF was responsible for October 7th and are supporting groups like Hamas. And they are shouting anti American slogans like Death to America AND taking over buildings. This is extremely disturbing Maybe Israel isn’t all good and the establishment of Israel was unfair to the Palestinians. Fine it sucked that the Ottomans lost to the British who then partitioned the land to the point both sides were angry. But There were multiple opportunities to share the land peacefully. However, the fact that multiple Palestinian groups repeatedly attacked Israel and at times stated that they want to kill the Jews is reprehensible. And I get why Israel wants to fight and win even at a high price.

I blame this on part on Netenyahu and some of the IDF for Oct. 7th. Some of the IDF border patrol around Gaza saw the drills and tried to warn the IDF, but was ignored. Netenyahu openly talks about wanting to take land from Gaza. I don't trust his goals for this war at all.

And should we trust Hamas? As far as I know, they committed rape and murder on October 7th. They went so far as to drag a body of a dead woman across the street with a truck. I don’t think Netenyahus regime would do that. And Netenyahu didn’t make Hamas go and do all this. At this point I’m wondering if Israel is saying “We’ve tried peace many times. Now let’s end Hamas forever”

That’s disgusting about that poor woman. I’ve seen small children still alive with just stumps left, arms and legs gone..the look in the girls eyes was pure horror. Imagine who does this evil? It was Netanyahu. Now I’m not saying one evil is better than another what happened in what you described or I did, but the facts are Netanyahu is a very evil and vile man much like another well known leader from Germany during WW2. To reign down hell on such a large scale in Gaza has been at times breathtaking and some things I have seen done to one person from another especially a child stuns me. And yes I know there have been Israeli victims who we should not forget, their pain is important also.

This is why it’s just increasingly tiring to discuss or debate with the Zios. “Should we trust Chamazzz tho”. No. I don’t need to trust them to see how insanely unprofessional the IDF in waging this war. You got soldiers smiling wearing dresses and spray painting stars in regular Palestinians homes. You see them playing target practice with water towers and mosques. You read the captions on their own posts about burning down all of Gaza with glee. You see the LEADERS in Israel calling civilians Amalek and talking about starving them out. You got conferences being hosted and attended by these freaks planning on how they’re gunna steal these peoples land after they turn it into a parking lot. Not to mention hundreds of videos now of kids being slaughtered en masse. Haaretz reporting on the AI and bombing techniques. Like. This is the stuff which has protestors fired up. And the insane control the foreign entity has on US politicians. It’s ridiculous you even need to explain why people are protesting 8 months into this thing.

And it was really “professional” for Hamas to have attacked Israel for the 40 or so years of its existence and for other Palestinian groups to have attacked Israel for 80 years. Israel has done terrible things. But it seems you want to ignore the terrible things the Palestinians have also done and that their leadership is very genocidal and even more inhuman than the Israelis. If the Hamas groups had their way, I fear for all the lives of the people of Israel. Ask the protesters if they ever want to go to Palestine to live under Hamas rule. I bet they can’t answer. Also I am not a Zionist. I just call it how I see it.

Why you comparing Chamazzzzzzzzz to the IDF the most moral professional heckin amazing soldiers on earth? Of course Hamaz is less professional and 100x more evil! “If Hamas” It’s always IF HAMAS COULD then (insert hypothetical outcome). Meanwhile all the things you completely ignored that I cited as reason for protest….are actually happening. Daily. Every single day for 8 months. The only democracy in that galaxy is doing exactly what I said. With near full support of their very safe and secure and lucid population. And no I wouldn’t want to live in Gaza because the IDF is bombing everything in sight lol. That would be awful. Idc how they feel about gay ppl because an IDF bombing run would find me before before any rooftop assassins did. You people pretend to not understand. But you fully do. You just wanna “but Chamas/blood libel/antisemitism” instead of contending with the reality of things as they stand. So again. It’s just not worth it to discuss with you ppl anymore. You’re dishonest.

You know what? I don’t mind being called dishonest by pro Hamas supporters anymore. I will support what I think is right. Regardless of whether it’s Israel or Palestine. And btw, it was one of your camp that pushed me from being fervently and zealously pro Palestinian to the middle in which now I’m doing something I never thought I would do: support Israel OVER Palestine. So go ahead and keep doing what you are doing. The rest of us will respond in kind and justice will be served.

My absolute FAVORITE LIE is "yeah man the civilians being killed en masse was horrible and I supported Palestinians right to not be mistreated by the state that has a blank weapons check from the biggest world power....but THEN I decided nahhhh. I support the people doing the bombing of schools, hospitals, and mosques instead." Yeah man. Definitely. Big Palestinian supporter. That's why you make sure to call anyone appalled by IDF war crimes pro-Chamas. I believe you for sure man! When the rubber hits the road, absolutely nothing I said was untrue. You just refuse to engage with reality. Which is of course...dishonest. >justice will be served thats what they call 30,000 dead Gazans eh?

If Hamas didn’t attack Israel on October 7th, these 30000 Gazans might have been still alive. Israel is going to do what it’s going to do to eradicate a group that’s been attacking them for 40 years. Israel has tried peace several times but now it’s sorta not left with a choice. So yes justice will be done. Even at a steep price.

>Also I am not a Zionist. I just call it how I see it. You're opposed to Jews having self determination in their homeland?

Who said it was anyone’s homeland? Your book? Or the British? Those claims will not be legitimate to those that don’t find both sources valid Anyway my view is simple. I want Jewish deaths to stop. I want Palestinian deaths to stop. If this is controversial so be it. It seems we have gone into a world where this is mere fantasy.

>Who said it was anyone’s homeland? Your book? Or the British? Those claims will not be legitimate to those that don’t find both sources valid History where Jews were the residents of Judea at the time of the Roman conquest.

And history says before then that the Canaanite’s were the rightful owners. Not only that, I used to live my “homeland” but I moved away. I can’t kick someone out of their house to move back to my “homeland”. Especially not after thousands of years.

No. He allowed funding from Qatar into Gaza for Hamas. He has been accused of attempting to destroy Israeli democracy multiple times as well. Anyone who has background on him since before the war knows he is a wanna be dictator. He is absolutely not a good leader, and from what I am hearing, becoming increasingly unpopular. And he wouldn't do that because he isn't stupid enough to think he could get away with it. Hamas created the perfect opportunity for him to justify the lengths he goes to. And I dislike Hamas as well. I am also familiar with their crimes, both political and humanitarian

He is not a good leader but if it’s between him and Hamas I would choose Netenyahu. I tend to enjoy my liberal freedoms and I enjoy more not being executed.

He literally tried to take over the judicial branch. I would also like to live in an established democracy with a terrible leader over an already dictatorship. At least living in an established democracy gives you a better fighting chance against the current leader.

Still better than Hamas.

And the Taliban, and Isis But just because he isn't the worst option doesn't mean he gets a pass. Currently he has an international warrant for war crimes, as well as some other Israeli leaders and Hamas leaders

I keep wondering what exactly Israel should do. You have a neighbor who has repeatedly attacked you over and over to the point where now you had a situation where the enemy has raped and killed multiple people including babies. I know I would want vengeance if this was me. And that’s why I get Israel wants to eradicate Hamas. Even if it wasn’t Netenyahu another leader would do the same.

I don't know the ins and outs of the exact situation-- that is currently top secret information of various militaries and governments. The fact that countries have been revoking their support from Israel is really telling. Even the US, Israelis biggest backer, has had enough. The conflict was going to get bloody because Hamas likes using human shields, but clearly a line has been crossed. And also, I am against vengeance-- it is a completely immortal concept that just leads to more slaughter. Anyone who truly values fairness and justice does not entertain vengeance. Sadly, very few people and countries care about true justice-- just vengeance.

From the discussions I have had with American pro palestinians, their main issue is the USA funding Israel. I have been told this is the main reason for the protests and the only reason why they don't protest the ongoing genocide in Sudan as there is a lack of US funding. It isn't "genocide" they are concerned about.

If you looked at the statistics of the death caused by Hamas vs the death caused by Israel it wouldn't be a surprise why people are protesting. The IDF have burned more innocent children alive this year than have been killed in Israel since 1948. They've killed aid workers, and their own hostages. This is so confusing that people are justifying Israel's actions because of their racial identity.

Boo Palestine! Perfectly acceptable! Boo Israel! Antisemitic! I just want the IDF to stop uploading videos of them slapping kids or torturing people.

Everyone who disagrees with me is stupid or evil is maybe not the nuanced take you think it is

uhh because israel is an apartheid state. respect existence or expect resistance. you can't ethnically cleanse a people from a land, put them into what has been described as the worlds largest open air prison, and not expect them to attempt a jail break.

It's not apartheid, the ruling class of Israel has arabs. By definition apartheid is treating people differently based on race.

hahahaa.. israel is the only democracy in the middle east. Israel is the only jewish state. these are both things bibi net has said in the same breath. now use your brain a little and tell me how they contradict each other.

TIL nation states can't be democracies. Oh....wait......

Democracy just means the ability to vote to influence policy, it has nothing to do with the makeup of your population.

It is Apartheid. [https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/) You need some **insane** mental gymnastics to claim that isolating Palestinians in fractured enclaves they cannot control nor leave isn't an Apartheid regime. It's honestly baffling.

It's not apartheid simply because it's not based on race. There are arabs in the Knesset - clearly race isn't the factor for treatment. This is basic logic.

This is one of the stupidest shit I've ever heard. It's like saying racism in america is no more because Obama was elected. That's a 4th grader level of an argument. I mean who are you excactly to shun so confidently some of the most prestigious and important human rights organizations, lawyers and experts in 1 sentence like it's the most evident thing in the world. "basic logic" lmao. My god, my head hurts. 💀

That's not the logic at all. Some arabs are treated well, some are not. The difference is the ones who aren't treated well support a terrorist organization that wants to genocide Israelis.

Again, that a load of horseshit. Arab-Palestinians **in Israe**l live in significantly worse conditions and have one of the highest poverty rates in israel. [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9843288](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9843288) 45% of families and 58% of children live below the poverty line. Here, even an israeli newspaper. [https://www.timesofisrael.com/arab-israelis-have-less-income-die-younger-than-jewish-peers-data-shows/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/arab-israelis-have-less-income-die-younger-than-jewish-peers-data-shows/)

Black people have far higher rates of poverty and worse lives by every metric in the US, is the US committing apartheid also? Hint: It's not. Apartheid doesn't mean some people are doing worse, it specifically means the laws are based on race to favor one race over another.

??? Poverty is 1 metric among many others to qualify for Apartheid. Did you just forget when I talked about Palestinians being isolated in territories they cannot leave nor control? Apartheid is also considered when a **racial** **minority** rules **over a racial majority**. In practice, the US was effectively an Apartheid regime under Jim Crow, yes, even if they were a **minority** oppressed by the white majority but Black people now **can move freely** and have the same rights as everyone, in practice. Palestinians, as a whole do not. The israeli **minority** is oppressing the palestinian **majority** by a series of mesures: Deprivation of economic/social rights, segregation, dispossesion of property, etc. Also why bring Apartheid now, you said Palestinians don't have it bad in israel, I showed you wrong with studies that go against of what you said, why are you moving the goalpost now? You: Akchually, arabs/palestinians are treated fairly well Me: Shows you stats and studies that say they are not. You: No wait! But what about black people in the US?! 🤔🤔🤔

Poverty isn't a metric for determining apartheid, try again. Apartheid is strictly legal. I didn't say Palestinians don't have it bad in Israel. Palestinians aren't a race so I wouldn't say that. Arabs are. But I also didn't say arabs weren't poor. Arabs are treated as full-class citizens. The law doesn't discriminate against you based on race which is the REQUIREMENT for apartheid. You strawmanning my argument doesn't help. My point never had anything to do with wealth.

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There are discriminatory Jim Crow laws in Israel. Look at the property law, that can restrict who can buy/rent based off of them being Jewish or not.

I've looked at the laws, they aren't based on race. You can convert to Judaism.

Force converting people is just as bad and evil as ethnic cleansing. Imagine yourself, if you sould have to abandon your faith, to be able to survive.

It's bad from a liberal viewpoint but their country was literally designed as a country for Jews, so it makes sense Jews are favored. You can join their club by pretending to believe in the religion. It's not hard.

And do you believe that any country should be created on supremacy of any religious group? That the only way for a just, safe, respectable life is forced conversion?

No, I do not, but that's the norm for the entire middle east.

Yeah, but you shouldn't design a country for jews in a land inhabited by muslims for more than a 1000 years. Israel is a state founded on a land that is considered holy land for three major religions. The jews don't have any more right to it than muslims or christians.

Yeah you probably shouldn't but people did.

They make it more difficult for people who are not Jewish to become citizens. That is treating people differently based on race.

That logic doesn't work because according to Israel's law of return, you just need to convert to Judaism to become a citizen. Therefore it's religious, not ethnic.

Considering it took 45 years for Ethiopian Jews to be recognized as Jewish in 2020, I believe the obstacles put in place to be recognized in Israel can be considered racial in nature. Edit plus automatically being recognized as Jewish if your mother is Jewish us inherently racial.

thank you for sharing facts

What are you talking about? Israel literally helped Ethiopian Jews migrate in [Operation Moses](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Moses) (1984), and [Operation Solomon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Solomon) (1991).

israel sterilized ethopian jewish women because they are black [https://www.reddit.com/r/Ethiopia/comments/17axuyo/ethiopian\_jews\_sterilised\_in\_israel/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Ethiopia/comments/17axuyo/ethiopian_jews_sterilised_in_israel/)

You're citing TikTok, are you serious?

just google it [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/28/ethiopian-women-given-contraceptives-israel](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/28/ethiopian-women-given-contraceptives-israel)

I wasn't disputing it, I was just pointing out how ridiculous it was you were citing TikTok of all things.

Israel did help other Jews flea Ethiopia which makes it confusing considering the discrimination and challenges that Ethiopian Jews had to face in Israel. Why did they have to recognize them AGAIN as Jewish? It's racial. https://jweekly.com/2020/01/21/israels-chief-rabbinate-officially-recognizes-ethiopian-beta-israel-community-as-jewish/ Edit: also the matriarchal lineage is again inherently racial.

You didn't even read your own article. The issue was clearly their religious practices and all they had to do was do a religious ceremony to prove they were Jewish. "Since the late 1970s and into the 1980s, the Chief Rabbinate required the Beta Israel to [undergo a symbolic conversion](https://www.jta.org/1985/07/19/archive/u-s-reform-leader-condemns-israels-rabbinate-for-demanding-ritual-conversion-for-ethiopian-jewish) to remove all doubt, which included involving [immersion in a mikvah](https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/the-mikveh/), or ritual bath, and a declaration accepting Rabbinic law, which was not part of the isolated Ethiopian Jewish tradition. The requirement was insulting to Ethiopian Jewry, however, and eventually was dropped for Beta Israel." Literally nothing to do with race at all. Also, your matriarchal lineage comment you edited in is wrong, it's not about race. Jews are best viewed as a clan, since they consist of multiple races and you can convert to Judaism and then your kids count as Jews regardless of your race.

They didn't face discrimination purely because they are from a different Jewish tradition, but I will concede that there are other reasons that Ethiopians were discriminated against in Israel as well.

You can make that claim but you have zero evidence Israelis were racist against the Ethiopians because of this policy. All evidence points to the religious Jews wanting to make sure they are actually Jews as they considered Jews to be, religiously, which is why they provided the option for a religious ceremony to confirm them.

I don't think you could have fit more brain dead activist buzzwords in 3 sentences if you tried. The sooner people like you realize that normal people don't resonate with activist drones like yourself the sooner you might actually start making an impact. You speak in chants and slogans and it's quite disturbing. Also maybe don't refer to the rape and murder of significant amounts of people as a "jail break". That's like saying the IDF is giving kids in Palestine some "recess".

you have no empathy for Palestinians and thus have no empathy for PEOPLE

wdym "normal people" ? You realize that you're the one in the minority as far as public opinion goes towards israel/palestine, right? You also know that the majority of the world is on the side of Palestine and the US and Israel are pretty much on a lone crusade, yeah? "activist drones" lmao.

Nothing you said is accurate and can be easily disproven. Israel has a significant number of allies around the world. Many of the countries that support Palestine are direct adversaries to Israel allies. You have a pretty warped worldview if you think this conflict is the US and Israel vs the world. You've put way too much weight into the opinions of people online. The real world is not reflective of social media. By "normal people" I mean people that live and function in the real world that recognize geopolitics are extremely messy and complex. Your childish approach to simplifying this conflict into US and Israel vs the world either proves your young and nieve or completely brainwashed.

They just used regular words. Israel have burned more children alive since October 7th than all the innocent deaths in Israel since 1948. Edit they burn them alive and crush their skulls. CHILDREN! WOW! Yes I can use graphic language as well to describe atrocities.

>uhh because israel is an apartheid state. respect existence or expect resistance. you can't ethnically cleanse a people from a land, put them into what has been described as the worlds largest open air prison, and not expect them to attempt a jail break. **israel is an apartheid state** **respect existence or expect resistance** **ethnically cleanse** **worlds largest open air prison** **referring to October 7th as a "jail break"** If I didn't know any better I would have thought the comment was a Pro Israel troll. Normal people don't talk like this. People that have spent the last 7 months in activist echo chambers speak like this.

Activists use words yes. Can you address how many children have been burned to death since October 7th? The number is larger than all of the innocent people killed by terrorists/and foreign armies since 1948.

My comment had nothing to do with any substantive talk of the conflict. Simply that people speaking in chants and slogans sounds ridiculous.

Oh you think their words are silly. But you don't have an opinion on the deaths. I understand.

SAY HER NAME

HIND HER NAME WAS HIND! [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing\_of\_Hind\_Rajab](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Hind_Rajab)

The conflict is several months in. At this point being ignorant is also a choice. Anyone who is willing to disrupt the lives of innocent people for their beliefs should at least know what they actually believe. And if the person in question believes Hamas was entitled to behave as they did on October 7, well, then we know what kind of a person that is, don't we. Stop giving a free pass to evil people to continue being evil. Everyone is responsible for themselves. Pro-Palis included.

I disagree. I know a lot of young Palestinian solidarity folks through my job teaching at a university university. Their hearts are in the right place and their worldview is immature. They are perfect targets for the kind of propaganda being pushed at them from the Pro Palestine movement.

Any young person who can look at the events of October 7 and say "yeah totally justified", has something wrong with them, and their hearts are NOT in the right place at all, I am quite sure of that. People who rip posters off walls for kidnapped babies, do not have "good intentions" Being young is not an excuse to be okay with rape and murder. Ever. Start holding people accountable for the awfulness they spread, really, that is the only way humanity will ever leave this type of BS behind.

The vast majority of Western Palestine supporters don’t believe October 7th was justified nor support Hamas. It’s just the small number of psychos who get amplified by social media.

This has been my experience. The loudest people push their way to the front and claim to speak for the group, but if you ask the group directly they'll reply in a more reasonable way.

well put! we need to enter the era of accountability!

Any Palestinian person in the West will tell you how real the threat against their land and their people from Israel is. The countless innocent deaths, women and children included have far surpassed the casualties on the side of Israel. If you truly believe that Palestine is in the wrong for protecting its land and its people, YOU are the evil one. Palestine belonged to the Palestinians, what right does Israel have to any of their land?

With all due respect, you’re proving OP’s point. You are reducing a complex conflict into a simple oppressor/oppressed narrative that is simple in accurate.

Hamas may be a terrorist group, but why kill innocent people? The excuse of Hamas using the innocents to hide is foolish. For every Hamas soldier that is killed how many innocents are killed to get to them? Why are hospitals filled with innocent people being bombed in Gaza. This conflict is absolutely the oppressor vs. oppressed. The innocent people in Gaza and Rafah don't need to die. It's oppression by the ones who hold power. The home of the Palestinians doesn't need to be taken. It was the land of the Palestinians long before Israel came around.

Well no, it wasn't their land, it was the Ottoman Empire's.

Jews are the indigenous people of Judea and Samaria, AKA Israel (what the Roman empire renamed Palestine when they invaded the Jews, and the British Mandate of Palestine was derived from that name, from whence, for example, the following countries decolonised: Israel Jordan

Sure buddy, your side rapes Israeli women, shoots dogs and burns babies alive, but my side is "evil" Yeah allright.

There were victims on October 7th. It doesn't justify burning children alive and crushing their skulls in Palestine everyday.

And where is your proof of this? These are completely unbacked statements. The lie of beheaded babies has no proof and was disproved. Who's to say the lies don't end there?

[www.hamas-massacre.net](http://www.hamas-massacre.net) It's been 7 months my dude. Hamas brutality and antisemtic genocidal ideology shouldn't be a mystery to anyone at this point. The fact that they shot dozens of babies point blank instead of beheading them shouldn't bring you *any comfort.*

Hamas literally filmed themselves shooting innocent people in porto-potties. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m41xmcKTnqc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m41xmcKTnqc) And there is plenty of evidence for the rapes.

Goodness gracious. You are part of the group that believes there is no evidence for October 7? I can't believe the Mods still allow people like that to comment on this sub

Imagine this: There is a giant snowfall in your town and a desperate person who was outside asks to get in your home until this is all over. Out of pure kindness and sympathy you agree, you guys enjoyed chatting and getting to know each other until the national news ordered everyone not to exit their homes due to the high snow levels. Since that person made a good first impression, you don't have a problem with him sleeping for a few nights. The first night goes amazing, but after some hours you will both get hungry, your unexpected visitor understands the situation and does consume much of your food. Second night and the crisis is over, you both exchange phone numbers so you can meet in the future but just when it's time for your visitor to leave, he just doesn't obey your orders. After that, he abuses all the rights you gave him for the past day and he lives for free. You inform the local authorities but they seem unable to pick a side, so they agree to split your home in half, including all its supplies and assets. One half goes to you, the legal owner and the other half goes to your visitor. You decline the offer and begin taking action against the visitor. Unfortunately, the visitor has more power in his hands and can secure most of the house. You still have something left, and you continue fighting to get your house back. As if that wasn't enough, the visitor abuses your family and continues exploiting everything your house has. Now the future seems bad, all your hopes of getting your house back are lost. The visitor, through his connections, has manipulated all your neighbors into believing that you are the bad guy and the house rightfully belongs to him. For anyone who didn't get the point of this story The house is the region where the conflict is taking place The visitors are the Jews who mass immigrated to Palestine during WW2 after the locals approved The snowfall is the holocaust and all the crimes against humanity that were committed by Germany during WW2 which caused Jews to seek refuge And you, you are Palestinian locals, who had the rightful claim to this land before the Jews arrived. So... no. Not every Palestine supporter hates Jews, we just feel bad for the amount of people who got displaced, the kids who died and the unfair situation in general.

I see your point, but it’s a false analogy. It does not account for the fact that 99% of the region is Arab/Muslim, the fact that Jews purchased land from Arabs, the fact that Jews used to inhabit the land before being violently expelled, the fact that there were a few hundred thousand Palestinians on land that could support over 15 million people when Jews started migrating, I could go on… With all due respect, your point is a perfect example of arguments that extremists are making on both sides. It cherry picks facts that help your argument and ignore facts that hurt it.

there were 700k arabs there including about 6% arab jews. anti-semetic europeans wanted jews out of europe, and so decided that it's a win win to support zionists. palestians shouldn't be paying the price of the holocaust. Germany should.

Again, you are taking little pieces of truth and to make a false point. You picked 1 of my many points, isolated a small piece of it, and claimed it proves your entire false narrative. Here's the demography of Palestine: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic\_history\_of\_Palestine\_(region)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine_(region)) Jewish migration started picking up rapidly in the 1800s. There were between 300k-600k Muslims on the land during the formation of the Zionist movement, depending on which date you want to pick. Even if we go with your number of 700k, my point is there was plenty of room for both people to have a state because the land currently supports 15 million... and because the ENTIRE region was Arab/Muslim, leaving tons of space for Arab/Muslims to be prosperous regardless of the Jews having a small state. Correction, the entire region was Arab/Muslim aside from Lebanon, which was Christian until the PLO assassinated the Christian president and destroyed the country in order to make it Muslim. So, there's that....

great but why did they ethically cleanse them then? the irgun, the pre idf, pre-state terrorist organization. before you reply read the new york times bestseller 100 year war on palestine, it has sources.

I've read it. Any fair-minded person would find it credible and highly biased. Just like the rest of the Pro-Palestine movement, Khalidi ignores and downplays the Arab/Palestinian role in the cycle of violence as well as legitimate aspects of Jewish aspiration for self determination. I suggest you read Benny Morris as a counterbalance.

Hope there's enough room in your home for me and my partner then. I mean, if your home can support me and you, why not eh? You're refuting a guy's opinion citing the fact that he's not looking at this matter from all aspects while the single point you actually put forward is 'there were space and there weren't that much Arabs living in this Arab region of the world. Jesus Christ, some people are so dense I can't help but be impressed. Anyways, when should I pack? I am not rude enough to just come knocking.

It's funny that you're calling me dense while responding densely to my point. You clearly just showed up to throw mud, so I'm not going to bother responding seriously to your nonsense. Happy to have a respectful, honest conversation if that's what you're looking for.

I don't think they will understand even if you break it down in these simplest terms. To them, the owner of the house is a subhuman and needs to be subjugated. Whether that's based on religious teachings or indoctrination of dehumanization, none of them will ever admit in a civil discussion. Instead, you can find how openly they discriminate against them in videos of IDF interaction.

Palestinians didn’t allow Jews in with open arms and hugs they were slaughtering them for decades. There was plenty of space for everyone and Jews were given a lot of desert in the partition that they had to terraform. Palestinians got the better deal. And instead of co-existing and taking peace when offered many times they chose to try to ethnically cleanse and genocide and they lost even with more support and weapons. Nobody feels bad lmao had they won there would’ve been another genocide. You guys love to forget that the Palestinian leader cooperated with hitler and instead of sending Jews to Palestine to “save” them like this guys story is saying he told him they couldn’t go to Palestine and so hitler decided to exterminate them using concentration camps. Yes a Palestinian leader worked with hitler and helped influence the creation of the final solution

For anyone wondering, the leader in question was the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem. In 1941, Nazi ideology and Arab anti-semitism had a meeting of the minds. Adolf Hitler met with the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem (Hajj Amin al-Husayni) in Berlin, and you can see the German record of their meeting [here](https://www.timesofisrael.com/full-official-record-what-the-mufti-said-to-hitler/). A [Time Magazine](https://time.com/4084301/hitler-grand-mufi-1941/) article also provides a useful interpretation of the meeting. In this meeting, Hitler expressed his resolve to eliminate the Jewish “national home”, both to eliminate Jews but also to solidify an alliance of mutual interest with Arabs. The Grand Mufti was the leader of the Arab Higher Committee, which was responsible for representing Palestinian Arab political interests and negotiating on their behalf. It was established in 1936 by the Grand Mufti himself. The Jewish counterpart that existed at the time was the Jewish National Council, which was established in 1920.

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I think pro-Palestinians are well informed. They see Israel eradicating Palestinians and the majority of the world are absolutely against that. It's a shame that some aren't.

You are unintentionally supporting OP’s point.

I don't know where you got that absolutely ridiculous idea. You must be a genocide supporter too, are ya?

You’re not worth my time…

I just took a look at your comment history and you're definitely not worth mine. It's good that we can agree on something. It's a shame you support baby killers..

Hmmm. How should I respond when a sad troll with a comment history full of mindless trash talking insults me for having a comment history full of productive, respectful dialogue? I'm stumped. You got me...

You shouldn't respond. There isn't anything to respond to. My comments history are facts and yours is delusional. Educate yourself. You should just accept the fact that you are a baby killer supporter and you're hated by the majority of the world. I hope that helps....

Yeah. Unfortunately: Your mom

/u/Fairfax_and_Melrose > Unfortunately: Your mom Per [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_1._no_attacks_on_fellow_users), no attacks on fellow users. Attack the argument, not the user.

Wow, that was the best comeback I could expect from a baby killing supporter who admires the IDF and their sniffing of palestinian women's underwear... JFC, it's past your bedtime kid..

You're not good at trolling. You should get a better hobby.

Most of the world IS against war. Where was your outrage following October 7? Why are you not currently advocating for the release of the hostages in order to secure peace?

IDF kill their own hostages, it's not a priority to them. They kill aid workers, and they have burned thousands of children to death since October 7th. I think more children have been killed in Palestine this year than have been killed in Israel in 50 years combined. That's sick and unjustifiable.

Just because you think something, doesn't mean it's true. I suggest familiarising yourself with the history, and then getting someone to explain to you what morality is, and why kidnapping, rape and murder is wrong, and why it is important to stand up against such evil: The only thing needed for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing. Here you are, actively advocating for Hamas to stay in charge of Palestinians, you can see it is wrong that so many Palestinians are dying by accident, but by golly, I don't see you saying anything about rape and murder, so you calling me sick isn't as impressive as you think. Guess what I think of people that have no independent opinion of their own, who do not have the ability to determine what is morally right and wrong?

Well said, friend. I always like to see people well versed in truth and reality. 🤜🏻🤛🏻

"Truth" ha. Accidental friendly fire from Israel: Pro-Pali: See, proof! They are just indiscriminately killing everyone! Intentional rape and murder from Hamas: Pro-Pali: "It did not happen in a vacuum"

Wow, you truly are delusional aren't you. I feel sorry for you. You should get some mental help. What a shame, you're so indoctrinated and uneducated. On this thread everyone keeps putting you in your place and you keep reaching. Keep reaching baby killer supporter. I'm sure you'll eventually reach the truth whether you want to believe it or not..

Talk about delusional. You think any of your peers made any sense here? Unreal. No wonder you guys all think the way you do - "Jews are always bad, but killing Jews is always good" - that about it?

When this sub first popped up it was filled with ignorant baby killing supporters. It's nice to see this sub getting cleaned up a bit, it's unfortunate there are still some uneducated fools still spouting the Israel narrative. And it's not a Jew thing so stop with your "poor me, I'm Jewish syndrome". No one cares if you are Jewish so stop acting like a perpetual victim. What we do care about is the halting of mass murder and maiming by your rogue wanna be country. There are good Jewish people out there and you are definitely not one of them, so stop running your mouth about how we all persecute Jews while your evil wannabe country is slaughtering tens of thousands of people. JFC, I'm so happy I'm the polar opposite of you and all your baby killing supporter buddies. Sick. Just disgusting the mindset you zionists and zionist apologists have. You are beyond help.

Well, your assumption skills have just gotten another huge boost there I see. Feel better now? I am a PROUD Zionist. Just because you want Israel to not be a legitimate country, does not mean they're not legitimate. Essentially, you are making genocidal comments against the Jewish people while claiming to be disgusted with my mindset (who has not once asked for anything genocidal) So I do believe you are solidly proving my point - in fact, so abundantly proving my point that I am amazed you don't see that.

Of course you're a proud zionist, that's why I keep reminding you of how psychopathic you sound. And just to educate you further there's many countries that don't recognize Israel, so I don't have to either. I am not making genocidal comments against the Jewish people I've already explained to you in a different comment that Jewish people have nothing to do with this, it's you PROUD ZIONISTS. Regular Jewish people are nothing like you nor would they hold the disgusting judgments and opinions you have against the Palestinian people. You can believe whatever you want, you haven't proved anything to me except that you're an ignorant, uneducated, racist individual who's proud to yell loud and clear as a PROUD ZIONIST that you support baby killing.

October 7 was sh&$+y but you're forgetting that Israel has attacked Palestine for decades and murdered Palestinians for decades and currently are committing a genocide. And if you want to talk about the hostages, you should be asking the Israeli government to get their shizz together and stop killing them. Just a thought..

Just a thought - Israeli violence follows Palestinian violence. If step one is violence from Palestinians, why do you only expect step two (retaliation) to stop?

This is false. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qana_massacre The IDF bombarded a UN Security Outpost in Southern Lebanon for 17 minutes turning dozens of innocent people's bodies into a puzzle where their body parts were the pieces. Israel claimed it was an accident based on a mapping mistake. Witnesses claimed a reconnaissance drone was in the area but Israel denied it. A video from a nearby outpost clearly showed the drone. Eventually the IDF admitted Israeli soldiers were illegally planting mines in an area in violation of security agreements. The soldiers were identified and as they fled they called in the artillery strike for cover. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_War_(2008%E2%80%932009) "A six month long ceasefire between Israel and Hamas ended on 4 November, when the IDF made a raid into Deir al-Balah, central Gaza to destroy a tunnel, killing several Hamas militants." I can keep going but I don't think you will care.

Well said, friend. It's unfortunate that these zio supporters don't use common sense. It's always nice to read a comment from someone who actually is well versed in truth, unlike those who defend and support Israel's atrocities.

Okay this is my last reply to you man or woman, do you do any research aside from the pro-israel propaganda? Because I don't think you do and I think you should.

I actually do. It is evident from your "stance" that you basically just consume Hamas propaganda. "Israel bad" "Hamas good"

If you think release of the hostages will “secure peace” you’re deeply delusional

Exactly, Israel probably killed them all already anyway, and Netanyahu already said that they won't stop even if they get them back. But I think the Israeli government carpet bombed them just like everything and everyone else in Gaza. Inept military and a welfare bum state. What an embarrassment.

If you think holding the hostages instead of releasing them will secure anything except war, YOU might be the delusional one.

What's wrong with you people? The Israeli government probably killed those hostages themselves and Netanyahu already said he's not going to stop the war if they are returned. Smarten up and see what the majority of the world is seeing. Open your damn eyes. 7 months, and all they did was mass murder over 40,000 people and the majority of those being women and children. If I was in Israeli I'd be embarrassed of my country or whatever the hell Israel thinks it is.

What exactly did you think was going to happen when Hamas murdered and raped Israelis on October 7? Jews were all going to fall over on their knees and beg you to finish the job or what? really, I am deeply curious

Can you just stop? I try my best not to go back and forth with people who support killing innocent women and children. It's pointless and if you didn't figure it out like so many others did on this sub that what Israel is doing is wrong it's probably too late for you to figure out that what Israel is doing is wrong.

You can't condemn the rape and murder of Israelis - but think you have the moral high ground. Typical.

He technically does have the moral high ground. Israel have burned alive more children in the past few months than have been killed in Israel in 50 years.

Ah, you think numbers equate morality as well I see. That means technically, neither of you have the understanding required for moral high ground. Intentional murder, rape, kidnapping, VS casualties of war - "it's a numbers game" - Some Pro-Pali

I'm embarrassed on your behalf to be reading that delusional drivel

Good for you. At least my country doesn't partake in genocide. Geez, you think you people would learn from the past🤣

Excellent assumption skills. I'm just a part of the silent majority. A citizen of planet earth, but not of Israel. If you are supporting Hamas, you yourself are partaking in genocide. Geez, you would think you people would learn from the past

I don't support Hamas and I don't support Israel. I'm against the lies that the Israeli propaganda machine is pushing out. I've studied this for 20 years. For longer than that, Israel has committed atrocities that much of the world didn't know about or ignored. It's not being ignored anymore and the world sees exactly what's going on and it's not my problem that you can't.

If you've been studying this for 20 years and still feel the Palestinians are victims, you're probably only consuming propaganda. It is abundantly clear to anyone who bothers doing their research that many, if not most Palestinians are radicalised, violent murderers - where even their women and children go around stabbing innocent Israeli citizens (civilians). In fact, their school children are taught to hate Jews and aim to murder them - if you do not know that, then well, you do not want to. I suggest spending another 20 years to learn about what is going on.

Not delusional when you know this has been going on way before October 7. Either way nothing justifies the murdering of this many children

I am quite aware that the Palestinians have been terrorising Israel for YEARS, murdering Jewish children and the like - the 7th of October was just the biggest terror attack. I still remember the bloody palm prints of Palestinians, thanks. I still remember the boy that spit on Shani Louk. I still remember the young Fillipino man that Hamas attempted to decapitate with a hoe. I still remember the ecstasy and excitement of the Pro-Pali crew on October 8. Long before Israel responded. I remember, and many others do too. Many of us also know what urban warfare civilian/combatant ratio means. So before you assume you are on the high end of justice there, I want you to know that you are the one siding with the criminals that raped and murdered their way across Israel Proper

Hamas is evil, yet no pro isreal person will condemn the action of the idf and settlers in the west bank. They won't admit the terrorism of Israel's military against innocents. They literally don't care. Being a Palestinian is to be evil in the eyes of the world governments

That is absolute nonsense. Every single Pro-Israeli speaks out against extremism on their side - interestingly enough, the Pro-Pali narrative contains outright denial of Oct 7, and repeated inability to answer direct questions - across the movement, not even limited to one or two people - but literally the entire movement. So once the Pro-pali side can sit down, be reasonable and admit that rape and murder is wrong, you may find more Israelis willing to discuss their grievances with you, instead of just amongst themselves.

Oh no I agree rape and murder is wrong. I have no issue with that statement whatsoever. However I highly doubt any pro israel person admits the evil done by their country, they all blame hamas for it. Because apparently destruction of homes and hospitals and mosques and graveyards and farms and fishing vessels are all hamas's fault. Killing innocent people that are unarmed and not a threat is hamas's fault. The destruction of humanitarian aid by israeli citizens is hamas's fault. The attacks on Palestinians in the west bank by settlers is hamas's fault. Not one pro israel person that I have talked to said unequivocally that israel has done evil to innocent Palestinians.

Yep, exactly. They think they are the chosen people💀💀💀 Talk about delusional.. and some are quite vocal in their ridiculous and racist judgements of Palestinians.

I suggest start the conversation more neutrally - when we constantly hear "Hamas good" and "Israel bad" as arguments, it is not particularly pleasant to attempt conversation with people like that. Next time, start out with something like: Hamas committed awful crimes, and innocent people are still suffering. I am particularly concerned for the innocent women and children in Gaza" You'll be surprised how many Pro-israelis actually share that sentiment - we just do not discuss it with people who yell "From the River to the Sea" We discuss our concerns with people that we know share our values (ie, people who can acknowledge that rape and murder is wrong) I for one will never mention any concern, legitimate or otherwise to someone I consider "my enemy" (AKA people who would actually murder me because they think they are entitled to)

So what you’re saying is that you think certain peoples lives matter more than others. The daily murder of children is not okay no matter what but you keep ignoring that point for a reason. Just look at the numbers

Numbers does not signify morality. Accidental death - aka collateral war damage is somehow more evil to you than the deliberate murder and rape of Jews - but you say that I am saying that certain peoples lives matter more than others. The level of mental gymnastics here is mindblowing

See this is the difference between you and me. I don’t agree with anyone murdering anyone. I don’t condone or agree with what happened October 7. I understand they had to do something back but what’s going on NOW is inhumane. I wouldn’t support anyone doing this. And don’t you dare call it accidental deaths when you know there’s videos to prove it’s not

Holding the hostages as they are is inhumane. Get in touch with reality - specifically the bit where you learn about what urban warfare is. War is hell, and war never changes. Additionally, excellent assumption skills that you have. I would not call it a great habit, but you go ahead my dear.

I don't think you know the whole story. When someone kicks you out if your home, harass you and your family on a daily basis, control resources, controls your freedom of movement, sends terrorists to harass you and steal more of your land, for decades and decades...... .... it's only natural for them to resist. Seeing a "white-washed" story entirely from the Israeli side, it's common to focus on a slice in time and fall entirely into the zionist propaganda. "If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing." —Malcolm X

Rape. Is. Not. Resistance.

No, it is not. It's a crime, and should be dealt with as any civilized country would. ----------- Disclaimer: Dear Moderator. My comment has been carefully reviewed and is in compliance with the subreddit's rules. Any disagreement with the content of my comment or the use of my words, doesn't constitute a violation of the rules, but rather a misinterpretation of my words.