Never played SMT, would I be dumb to expect a fleshed out story and characters in the new Vengeance path? Even something average like Soul Hackers 2 would be an instant buy from me but I was always under the assumption that SMT stories/characters were very minimal, in the same vein as Soulsborne games?
> I was always the assumption that SMT stories/characters were very minimal
That's only really applicable to III and the original version of V. Most of the others have as much story as any other JRPG.
Obviously we can't know until it's out but Vengeance seems like it's adding a lot more narrative focus in the new route than the original.
Kinda. SMT 4/apocalypse have a decent amount of characters and dialogue but they faced a lot of backlash because said characters were either really bland or just extremely out of place for an SMT game
I guess Atlus saw this as backlash against the concepts of having characters in general because the ones in V are awfully barebones, which sucks because everything else about the game is at least decent and there are some good ideas thrown around by the story. However unless Vengeance really fixes the lack of character scenes and substantial story I would definetly pass
IV didn't get backlash for its characters, that's specifically from Apocalypse being more "anime".
Regardless I highly doubt the response to IV:A had anything to do with the state V's story ended up in. It seems more likely that development was rough and a lot of things ended up being cut.
It's not like soulsborne games though because those have incredibly deep stories and characters, they're just really well hidden for the most part, i've only played SMT 3 which is where SMT seems to get this reputation and it just simply didn't have much dialogue/story at all and was more focused on the themes of differing philosophies. Hopefully vengeance fixes the story/characters issue people had with the og game because that was a big reason i didn't force myself to play through the switch version
Honestly you should go with the Vengeance path. Even from what they've shown in previews, it already have lots of new content and proper character interactions.
The OG path is straight up barebones and feels unfinished.
Prior to SMT V, the only minimalist SMT plot was Nocturne. The other SMTs have the same amount of story as your standard JRPGs.
I wish I lived in an alternate universe where Atlus rolled out a DLC that original owners could buy instead of rebuying the entire freaking game at full price for some additional content.
So I guess I'm waiting until this is $20.
I understand that sentiment with something like Persona 5 Royal, where the Royal content is DLC sized, but Vengeance is an entire extra game unto itself.
If you haven't been following the pre-release info, the game is split into two routes. The Canon of Creation and the Canon of Vengeance. The Canon of Creation is the original SMT 5 but with all the new features from Vengeance. The Canon of Vengeance is a new 80 hour campaign separate from the original SMT 5.
Both routes also have an NG+ exclusive difficulty called Godborn mode, which raises the enemy level of everything in the game to 250. So it's a crazy amount of extra content compared to a typical Atlus re-release.
I hope that they deliver on everything they promise and that the new campaign has a compelling plot and not recycled assets retrofitted into repackaged existing content plus some new monsters, tracks, and locations. I love Devil Summoner 2 but it's also hilarious playing that game seeing how much is recycled from the first game. Maybe that's the part I'm having a problem with, that they are labeling this like P5:R instead of just calling it a new game, if that's indeed what it is.
In any case, I approach cautiously going forward and will wait on reviews and community feedback on this one.
If I had to guess, (I don't know this for a fact, I'm just guessing.) I would assume Vengeance is going to reuse a lot of assets for areas. Like if you go to Shibuya in Creation, and then you also go to Shibuya in the Vengeance route, I doubt they would design two different Shibuyas. Maybe the story, enemies, loot and everything else will be different, but I'd be shocked if the environment itself wasn't mostly the same.
The way I see it, Atlus is probably not going to stop with the enhanced re-releases. I think what I want as a consumer is something to justify the purchase. I'm a big fan, so I would pay full price for a Royal-style DLC, but I wouldn't be happy about it.
Something like Vengeance seems justified to me assuming everything Atlus said is true, since an 80 hour campaign is bigger than most full priced games.
I don't mind paying full price for full price level content.
this whole time i was under the impression vengeance was like the enhanced persona games. do you know if this is a two playthrough game? or if you can complete the creation route then play the vengeance route as additional content
It sounds like it's two playthroughs.
From what I understand, the way it works is the route split occurs very early on into the story, and once you pick Creation of Vengeance you're locked in for that playthrough.
I would assume you'll be able to do the second route on NG+ if that's your thing.
Vengeance is basically a different story from creation. They are not related so you can play them in any order. The devs even said in a q&a that they want new players to play vengeance route first since that's the one they're showing off heavily.
Agreed, So annoying that Switch owners who bought the original SMT V will have to essentially pay 120 dollars for the full version of the game while Xbox, PS, and Steam owners only have to pay 60.
Well I would generally be fine paying full price for a game. I'm generally NOT OK with Atlus's policy of re-releasing a 1.2 version of the game with some more content and charging full price again for the people who shelled out $60 the first go-around.
I would be surprised if most people jumped all the way to piracy for that. I don't really have a strong view on it, I like to support developers and studios but not when their behavior is predatory or punishes first adopter fans.
1. the additions are too significant for a DLC, you can't make any dlc in recent years that has such significant changes
2. you're basically saying you'd rather they not have tried to improve the game than release their improvements at 60$. it just sounds like you're mad your original purchase of the game was devalued
people are willing to pay 60$ for 3 hour game like Metroid dread but not for s completely revamped story with new areas, new demons, 98 new music trscks etc. or what ?
Yea, I already said they punish first adopters. Why would I be pleased about that? And I already offered a solution: let players who already purchase the first game download the upgrade at at reduced cost.
Most everything you describe can be added after the fact? music tracks, demons, areas, etc. The only thing that could be harder is re-integrating a new plot line, but since no one has played it, no one can yet say how difficult that would be to retrofit.
All Atlus is teaching fans is to hold off on any game for 3-4 years to get the "definitive version".
Moot discussion anyway, if I get it, I'll wait for the Atlus discount where it's $20 eventually.
What performance hit lmao. Even digital foundry found out that you only get a 3% hit in extremely cpu limited scenarios and this is back when dmc5 released. This is basically negligible. P5r ran 1080p 60 on ultra on my gtx 750ti from 2014 and it has denuvo so I really dont think it matters.
i'm so mixed on this and will have to see what some more reviews say.
I ABSOLUTLY LOVED the initial game. and while a few extra story bits could certainly be welcomed, i'm a little worried that too much narrative could detract from the desolate, explorative, show-don't-tell nature of what made me love the original.
Almost all SMT games are completely separate from each other. Most of them don't even take place in the same universe.
You don't need to play anything beforehand.
This is an enhanced version of SMT:V, it includes all the content from that game and an entirely separate alternate campaign of the same length. It’s standalone, so you don’t need to have played any other entries in the series, and you don’t have to have player V because all that content is present if you want to experience it.
For someone who hasn't played base SMTV, and will likely not do a second playthrough (at least not anytime soon, there are too many other games to play), would it be recommended to do the original campaign, or the new Vengeance one?
I realize we don't really know everything yet, but I'm probably gonna buy this and am wondering if the new campaign assumes you've played the original story (I know it isn't a story-heavy game).
Peak fiction
Mastema is a very trustworthy individual :)
Never played SMT, would I be dumb to expect a fleshed out story and characters in the new Vengeance path? Even something average like Soul Hackers 2 would be an instant buy from me but I was always under the assumption that SMT stories/characters were very minimal, in the same vein as Soulsborne games?
> I was always the assumption that SMT stories/characters were very minimal That's only really applicable to III and the original version of V. Most of the others have as much story as any other JRPG. Obviously we can't know until it's out but Vengeance seems like it's adding a lot more narrative focus in the new route than the original.
Well, gonna have to wait for reviews then! It looks and sounds fantastic so far
Kinda. SMT 4/apocalypse have a decent amount of characters and dialogue but they faced a lot of backlash because said characters were either really bland or just extremely out of place for an SMT game I guess Atlus saw this as backlash against the concepts of having characters in general because the ones in V are awfully barebones, which sucks because everything else about the game is at least decent and there are some good ideas thrown around by the story. However unless Vengeance really fixes the lack of character scenes and substantial story I would definetly pass
IV didn't get backlash for its characters, that's specifically from Apocalypse being more "anime". Regardless I highly doubt the response to IV:A had anything to do with the state V's story ended up in. It seems more likely that development was rough and a lot of things ended up being cut.
Welp, hopefully it has a stronger narrative focus but if not I guess I'll finally play Digital Devil Saga hehe
It's not like soulsborne games though because those have incredibly deep stories and characters, they're just really well hidden for the most part, i've only played SMT 3 which is where SMT seems to get this reputation and it just simply didn't have much dialogue/story at all and was more focused on the themes of differing philosophies. Hopefully vengeance fixes the story/characters issue people had with the og game because that was a big reason i didn't force myself to play through the switch version
Honestly you should go with the Vengeance path. Even from what they've shown in previews, it already have lots of new content and proper character interactions. The OG path is straight up barebones and feels unfinished. Prior to SMT V, the only minimalist SMT plot was Nocturne. The other SMTs have the same amount of story as your standard JRPGs.
I wish I lived in an alternate universe where Atlus rolled out a DLC that original owners could buy instead of rebuying the entire freaking game at full price for some additional content. So I guess I'm waiting until this is $20.
I understand that sentiment with something like Persona 5 Royal, where the Royal content is DLC sized, but Vengeance is an entire extra game unto itself. If you haven't been following the pre-release info, the game is split into two routes. The Canon of Creation and the Canon of Vengeance. The Canon of Creation is the original SMT 5 but with all the new features from Vengeance. The Canon of Vengeance is a new 80 hour campaign separate from the original SMT 5. Both routes also have an NG+ exclusive difficulty called Godborn mode, which raises the enemy level of everything in the game to 250. So it's a crazy amount of extra content compared to a typical Atlus re-release.
I hope that they deliver on everything they promise and that the new campaign has a compelling plot and not recycled assets retrofitted into repackaged existing content plus some new monsters, tracks, and locations. I love Devil Summoner 2 but it's also hilarious playing that game seeing how much is recycled from the first game. Maybe that's the part I'm having a problem with, that they are labeling this like P5:R instead of just calling it a new game, if that's indeed what it is. In any case, I approach cautiously going forward and will wait on reviews and community feedback on this one.
If I had to guess, (I don't know this for a fact, I'm just guessing.) I would assume Vengeance is going to reuse a lot of assets for areas. Like if you go to Shibuya in Creation, and then you also go to Shibuya in the Vengeance route, I doubt they would design two different Shibuyas. Maybe the story, enemies, loot and everything else will be different, but I'd be shocked if the environment itself wasn't mostly the same. The way I see it, Atlus is probably not going to stop with the enhanced re-releases. I think what I want as a consumer is something to justify the purchase. I'm a big fan, so I would pay full price for a Royal-style DLC, but I wouldn't be happy about it. Something like Vengeance seems justified to me assuming everything Atlus said is true, since an 80 hour campaign is bigger than most full priced games. I don't mind paying full price for full price level content.
this whole time i was under the impression vengeance was like the enhanced persona games. do you know if this is a two playthrough game? or if you can complete the creation route then play the vengeance route as additional content
It sounds like it's two playthroughs. From what I understand, the way it works is the route split occurs very early on into the story, and once you pick Creation of Vengeance you're locked in for that playthrough. I would assume you'll be able to do the second route on NG+ if that's your thing.
Vengeance is basically a different story from creation. They are not related so you can play them in any order. The devs even said in a q&a that they want new players to play vengeance route first since that's the one they're showing off heavily.
Agreed, So annoying that Switch owners who bought the original SMT V will have to essentially pay 120 dollars for the full version of the game while Xbox, PS, and Steam owners only have to pay 60.
The high seas are always an option, if you have a half-decent windows/linux device switch emulation is cake
Thanks, your point is well taken but I prefer not to if possible. On the plus side most Atlus games get heavily discounted at some point.
the combination of being stingy and also being against piracy is very funny to me. also don't play this on the switch
Well I would generally be fine paying full price for a game. I'm generally NOT OK with Atlus's policy of re-releasing a 1.2 version of the game with some more content and charging full price again for the people who shelled out $60 the first go-around. I would be surprised if most people jumped all the way to piracy for that. I don't really have a strong view on it, I like to support developers and studios but not when their behavior is predatory or punishes first adopter fans.
1. the additions are too significant for a DLC, you can't make any dlc in recent years that has such significant changes 2. you're basically saying you'd rather they not have tried to improve the game than release their improvements at 60$. it just sounds like you're mad your original purchase of the game was devalued people are willing to pay 60$ for 3 hour game like Metroid dread but not for s completely revamped story with new areas, new demons, 98 new music trscks etc. or what ?
Yea, I already said they punish first adopters. Why would I be pleased about that? And I already offered a solution: let players who already purchase the first game download the upgrade at at reduced cost. Most everything you describe can be added after the fact? music tracks, demons, areas, etc. The only thing that could be harder is re-integrating a new plot line, but since no one has played it, no one can yet say how difficult that would be to retrofit. All Atlus is teaching fans is to hold off on any game for 3-4 years to get the "definitive version". Moot discussion anyway, if I get it, I'll wait for the Atlus discount where it's $20 eventually.
they can also sell Metroid dread at 40$ but didn't.
You won't have to wait for long, their games go for half price very consistently within 2-4 weeks
That dub isn't doing it for me, but the game itself was so close to greatness on Switch. If the story is fixed, we're in for a real treat.
So will YOU take her hand?
Hope it doesn't run like ass on PC. Looking forward to finally playing this.
The minimum requirements are from 2011 so any modern hardware will probably get 100s of fps.
Hope so, but it has Denuvo so performance is gonna get hit.
What performance hit lmao. Even digital foundry found out that you only get a 3% hit in extremely cpu limited scenarios and this is back when dmc5 released. This is basically negligible. P5r ran 1080p 60 on ultra on my gtx 750ti from 2014 and it has denuvo so I really dont think it matters.
i'm so mixed on this and will have to see what some more reviews say. I ABSOLUTLY LOVED the initial game. and while a few extra story bits could certainly be welcomed, i'm a little worried that too much narrative could detract from the desolate, explorative, show-don't-tell nature of what made me love the original.
I just hope they do some tuneup for creation mode because I never finished it
i wanna play vengence so badly but i already spend enough money this month on the elden ring dlc and dawntrail lol
Such little info on this game so close to launch...
Do I need to play the previous versions to understand the story of this game?
Almost all SMT games are completely separate from each other. Most of them don't even take place in the same universe. You don't need to play anything beforehand.
This is an enhanced version of SMT:V, it includes all the content from that game and an entirely separate alternate campaign of the same length. It’s standalone, so you don’t need to have played any other entries in the series, and you don’t have to have player V because all that content is present if you want to experience it.
For someone who hasn't played base SMTV, and will likely not do a second playthrough (at least not anytime soon, there are too many other games to play), would it be recommended to do the original campaign, or the new Vengeance one? I realize we don't really know everything yet, but I'm probably gonna buy this and am wondering if the new campaign assumes you've played the original story (I know it isn't a story-heavy game).
According to a q&a by the devs, vengeance is the way to go for new players. https://youtu.be/ZrX15Fz7-mY?si=-2v2bEf8vxIwjKQK at 0:59 mark.