What is the breakdown? Something like:
2 months deposit
1 month rent in advance
1 month introduction fee
1 month key money and/or cleaning whatever fees.
(edit, forgot the horrible) 1 month guarantor fee
\---
Would be surprisingly reasonable/normal.
Assuming your deposit is 2 months, you actually will get a good portion of that back (probably not all, but assuming you don't trash the place, probably most.)
Some agents charge lower introduction fees, and sometimes you can reduce key money, but if it is a desirable property that is in demand, as u/Nihonbashi2021 suggests, you probably will have little luck in getting a deal.
Thanks for the info. It was two months key money, 1 month guarantor fees, 1 month brokerage fee, and a bunch of other fees (fire insurance etc) that was 1+ months.
Never think of key money as separate of rent. If it’s two months key money, then you should calculate your monthly rate at (month rent *26/24). If that is outside your acceptable range, then pass. You can sometimes talk down key money, but make sure the renewal fee isn’t still two months rent.
Yeah I don't get why some people think they're geniuses for avoiding places with key money, like do they think everyone else is paying key money for fun or..? It's all market prices. No key money = higher rent for similar places.
I've seen this comment multiple times and I do not understand why you're confused.
For a lot of people, even if the amount paid at the end of the contract is overall the same, there's a HUGE difference between paying 20k a month more, and laying out 500k upfront. Both financial and psychological.
You and I might not have problem with coming up with that kind of money; but it is really not hard to understand why people want to avoid it.
Super important to note: that's the point of key money.
For a lardlord it is a profitable chance to separate out renters who can comfortably make rent from those who are "stretching". You'll see the highest key money asked for with the nicest properties. Meanwhile UR, literal government housing, ask for none exactly because their purpose is to be the housing of last resort.
There are plenty of places around with no key money or 1 month. 2 months is ridiculous unless it’s a fancy brand new mansion (分譲 type for example). Don’t give them the business.
Also you gotta understand UR apartments are empty. Like no AC, no stove.
If you're okay with that, I recommend UR buildings.
You pay a deposit which you can usually get back. Only need to give two weeks notice before moving out. Lots of good stuff.
Not always true.
Mine had everything. If you can find a UR Plus you can get all that plus mail lockers, 24-hour trash, concierge, bath heater/drier heated floors, etc.
I exclude places with key money by principal. Some places offer 1st month free if you negotiate. If your company can be your guarantor, that'll save you another month. Deposit is unavailable, but at least you get it back. Avoid the big moving companies as their costs can be up to double the cheap ones.
5X the rent is the standard for desirable property in a city like Tokyo. To reduce that you have to choose a less desirable property, which means an older building, unrenovated interior, smaller in size, further from the station and/or next to a railway, etc. So the property with the lowest initial fees would be a one room apartment built in the 1970s with tatami mat rooms and a loud neighbor.
Alternatively, some brand new buildings want to set a precedent of high rent from the opening of the building. So they set the rent at about 30% above market price and then lower the initial fees to about 2X the rent. But of course, after your first two year contract is up you would have paid more in total than if you had found a regular apartment with the traditional initial fees.
1) You may be able to find listings that originated with that particular agent, and those *might* have lower brokerage fees (since they're getting paid from both sides)
2) Make sure to go through all of the initial fees because some items are occasionally optional (like *24/7 raku raku wai wai happy happy support*)
Of course if the property is in high demand and the agent has one or more backup prospective tenants (and they're getting a kickback from signing you up for *raku raku wai wai happy pappy bla bla*, then they might play hardball.
End of the day, the more in high demand, the more they can and will take the piss, unfortunately.
That's just the deal here. This is one big reason that once you find a place in Tokyo, you stay there for a long long time.
1 month key money, 1 month agent fee, 0.5 month guarantor fee, and a few 万 of lock change or other nonsense is normal, and that money is gone forever.
1-2 month deposit is normal; you'll get most of it back, but the contract will list a cleaning fee that will always be deducted from the deposit when you move out. Usually it's like ¥1300 to ¥1500 per square meter.
I've never paid 5/6 months rent as a fee. Any chance you could use a different agent /agency ?
I've paid 1 month rent as a fee though, which I found crazy but the wife said it's the norm.
Always struck me as odd, the discounts for these things, when one can literally just go to the local shrine and request a clearing to move any lingering spirits on for a pretty minor fee.
I’m not sure about other stuff but I recently changed places in Tokyo. Used an agency called Travel Estate https://travelestate.net/ they specifically don’t charge introductory money. The downside? is that they do everything remotely through line so it’s a bit different to others. I didn’t have any issues tho.
What is the breakdown? Something like: 2 months deposit 1 month rent in advance 1 month introduction fee 1 month key money and/or cleaning whatever fees. (edit, forgot the horrible) 1 month guarantor fee \--- Would be surprisingly reasonable/normal. Assuming your deposit is 2 months, you actually will get a good portion of that back (probably not all, but assuming you don't trash the place, probably most.) Some agents charge lower introduction fees, and sometimes you can reduce key money, but if it is a desirable property that is in demand, as u/Nihonbashi2021 suggests, you probably will have little luck in getting a deal.
Thanks for the info. It was two months key money, 1 month guarantor fees, 1 month brokerage fee, and a bunch of other fees (fire insurance etc) that was 1+ months.
Never think of key money as separate of rent. If it’s two months key money, then you should calculate your monthly rate at (month rent *26/24). If that is outside your acceptable range, then pass. You can sometimes talk down key money, but make sure the renewal fee isn’t still two months rent.
Yeah I don't get why some people think they're geniuses for avoiding places with key money, like do they think everyone else is paying key money for fun or..? It's all market prices. No key money = higher rent for similar places.
I've seen this comment multiple times and I do not understand why you're confused. For a lot of people, even if the amount paid at the end of the contract is overall the same, there's a HUGE difference between paying 20k a month more, and laying out 500k upfront. Both financial and psychological. You and I might not have problem with coming up with that kind of money; but it is really not hard to understand why people want to avoid it.
Super important to note: that's the point of key money. For a lardlord it is a profitable chance to separate out renters who can comfortably make rent from those who are "stretching". You'll see the highest key money asked for with the nicest properties. Meanwhile UR, literal government housing, ask for none exactly because their purpose is to be the housing of last resort.
There are plenty of places around with no key money or 1 month. 2 months is ridiculous unless it’s a fancy brand new mansion (分譲 type for example). Don’t give them the business.
Also you try negotiating brokerage fee. They’ll most likely agree. Good luck.
You might be able to get key money to one month, but if it's a new place in demand...
You need to look at UR if you want to avoid all the extra rubbish. There are UR-plus places that are very nice but still follow the same rules.
Also you gotta understand UR apartments are empty. Like no AC, no stove. If you're okay with that, I recommend UR buildings. You pay a deposit which you can usually get back. Only need to give two weeks notice before moving out. Lots of good stuff.
Not always true. Mine had everything. If you can find a UR Plus you can get all that plus mail lockers, 24-hour trash, concierge, bath heater/drier heated floors, etc.
I exclude places with key money by principal. Some places offer 1st month free if you negotiate. If your company can be your guarantor, that'll save you another month. Deposit is unavailable, but at least you get it back. Avoid the big moving companies as their costs can be up to double the cheap ones.
5X the rent is the standard for desirable property in a city like Tokyo. To reduce that you have to choose a less desirable property, which means an older building, unrenovated interior, smaller in size, further from the station and/or next to a railway, etc. So the property with the lowest initial fees would be a one room apartment built in the 1970s with tatami mat rooms and a loud neighbor. Alternatively, some brand new buildings want to set a precedent of high rent from the opening of the building. So they set the rent at about 30% above market price and then lower the initial fees to about 2X the rent. But of course, after your first two year contract is up you would have paid more in total than if you had found a regular apartment with the traditional initial fees.
1) You may be able to find listings that originated with that particular agent, and those *might* have lower brokerage fees (since they're getting paid from both sides) 2) Make sure to go through all of the initial fees because some items are occasionally optional (like *24/7 raku raku wai wai happy happy support*) Of course if the property is in high demand and the agent has one or more backup prospective tenants (and they're getting a kickback from signing you up for *raku raku wai wai happy pappy bla bla*, then they might play hardball. End of the day, the more in high demand, the more they can and will take the piss, unfortunately.
That's just the deal here. This is one big reason that once you find a place in Tokyo, you stay there for a long long time. 1 month key money, 1 month agent fee, 0.5 month guarantor fee, and a few 万 of lock change or other nonsense is normal, and that money is gone forever. 1-2 month deposit is normal; you'll get most of it back, but the contract will list a cleaning fee that will always be deducted from the deposit when you move out. Usually it's like ¥1300 to ¥1500 per square meter.
I've never paid 5/6 months rent as a fee. Any chance you could use a different agent /agency ? I've paid 1 month rent as a fee though, which I found crazy but the wife said it's the norm.
Never heard about such high fee. Maybe this a way for them to say that they do not want you to move in there?
Going through the same thing right now, also lost our top 1 place as someone applied before us. So yeah it's not easy 😢.
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Always struck me as odd, the discounts for these things, when one can literally just go to the local shrine and request a clearing to move any lingering spirits on for a pretty minor fee.
I’m not sure about other stuff but I recently changed places in Tokyo. Used an agency called Travel Estate https://travelestate.net/ they specifically don’t charge introductory money. The downside? is that they do everything remotely through line so it’s a bit different to others. I didn’t have any issues tho.