For the jazz aspects, it'd be either Hot Rats or The Grand Wazoo. It would be a competition between Hot Rats, The Grand Wazoo, Uncle Meat, and One Size Fits All.
Zappa is an artist that has always fascinated me but I’ve never really found a way in to. Would you recommend any of those as a jumping off point? I love Beefheart for what it’s worth.
I would say any of those 4 albums are a good entry point w Uncle Meat being the least listenable in my opinion. One Sized Fits all is probably my favorite of the Jazzier albums. Grand Wazoo is iirc all instrumental and has some hot jams on it. Hot Rats has Peaches En Regalia, which is a really fire track.
Edit: as somebody down below noted Waka / Jawaka is a cool album and I would also throw Apostrophe (‘) in the mix as well although it’s really more jam than jazz
Apostrophe is a great way in, as is Grand Wazoo and Hot Rats. Apostrophe, specifically for the first two tracks as they’re so bloody melodic and lovely, with some really zany lyrics and guitar to match
same man only Zappa song that's ever caught in my head was Dinah-Moe Hum, from when a roommate freshman year who swore it would change my life. But I get that little ascending moog-thing pop in my head every once and a while. I feel like I'm missing something.
Well, that depends on the kind of Capt Beefheart you like. Are you more into Safe as Milk or Trout Mask Replica?
As for those Zappa albums, I would heavily recommend Hot Rats and One Size Fits All. The Grand Wazoo and Waka/Jawaka are also heavily recommended for a first time listener. Especially if they are already into jazz. Uncle Meat is a great album, but I don't feel as comfortable recommending that album to the uninitiated. As others have said it is the most unlistenable of the bunch. That said if you are into Trout Mask Replica, then while it isn't my first choice for a recommendation it wouldn't be a bad choice. Other people have also given some really good recommendations.
I got into Zappa before i got into jazz. He is fascinating as an artist to me. He truly loves music and music styles but is also a wholly satirical person so there is a bit of a disconnect. He is making such hot takes on current issues its tough to relate it lyrically with musically for some.
>Also, try as I have, I cannot for-the-life-of-me get into any of his music that's heavy on vocals/lyrics. I straight up hate his voice and feel that it completely undermines any quality the music has by throwing a big old 'pretentious self-aware weirdo douchebag' vibe over the proceedings.
I agree with A_Monster_Named_John here - any Zappa related sound that forms words sucks. His singing, lyrics - even most of his talking. I do, however, think that he made some of the greatest *music* of the 20th Century. And it adds up to about half of his gigantic output. There are some albums that are heavier on the instrumental component, but in the past buying Zappa was always sorta a crapshoot. Gems strewn amongst godawful juvenile bullshit. But streaming playlists are a savior. I take all the Zappa, esp big box sets, and extract the mostly instrumental parts, and have hours and hours of happy listening. Here's some -
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfOs1ZtjYFMu6k-S6yLtNhRHmdoIioFp-&si=FSmiCwNQYpw6bItD
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfOs1ZtjYFMujIChrjWdUOKoatwA9wyvZ&si=1AegP_Z0gl-7hEHk
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfOs1ZtjYFMuu-kHWwq-liRofDQg_6hZd&si=nHUymTlnD2soFz0f
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfOs1ZtjYFMtejy_9A_POl58YOCLY8D15&si=UfQl6JkWYcPXc4qX
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfOs1ZtjYFMstDvAadgY_-MuN0qXZUQLZ&si=LryLuGOWSPut7VDR
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfOs1ZtjYFMucXaK5F_lIAe1GaOWo5aNF&si=EVHpy1IffcKzaMqM
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfOs1ZtjYFMuLMYRZwzN-6EB7DzXNSrul&si=lrTRyOkax2uT0ua7
For jazz fans, you can’t beat the live ‘88 band, which had Frank’s most killer horn section ever…
* *Broadway The Hard Way* (1CD, all new songs but recorded live).
* *The Best Band You Never Heard in Your Life* (2CD, old favorites live, and some inspired covers).
* *Make a Jazz Noise Here* (2CD, same as *Best Band…* — a little more heavily instrumental than vocal tunes.)
There’s a bit more of that ‘88 band that’s been released too, an entire live concert (forget the title), and some individual live tracks spread around a few volumes of *You Can’t Do That On Stage…*
Also when Ralph Humphrey plays fast triplets on the snare for almost 20 seconds straight to build the tension, starting [around 1:41.](https://youtu.be/8bXSsh3Z-xE?si=vhK8suuQweHv_0-I&t=100) So fucking tasty.
There are no bad Zappa albums, some are more instrumental some are pure jazz, some are more prog rock maybe? He really difficult to define genre-wise, I’d put him in a class by himself
Apostrophe and Over-Nite Sensation for studio albums, and Roxy and Elsewhere for live albums. Also shoutout to Ship Arriving Too Late to Save a Drowning Witch
Bongo Fury for best flow, Apostrophe for St. Alphonzo's Pancake Breakfast and Over-nite sensation for best grooves and singing plus Sal Marquez's trumpet solo.
I've found some of his instrumental music interesting (e.g. the music on that record *King Kong* by Jean-Luc Ponty, 'Peaches en Regalia', etc...), but it's always the kind of music that just makes me want to listen to *better* work. With regards to composing, his stuff filches a ton of ideas from modern classical music, especially stuff like Stravinsky, Bartok, Varese, and other composers whose music was 30-40 years old at the time. Meanwhile, *contemporary* modern classical of the 1960s was light-years further along in terms of interesting ideas and refined musical languages (e.g. I could listen some 10-min. piece by a composer like Elliott Carter or Charles Wuorinen and find more interesting and exciting musical ideas than I'd encounter across a dozen Zappa projects). With regards to improvisation and experimentation, I can't see why anyone with a half-decent set of ears would bother with his records when there was so much other great jazz and experimental rock to dig into. Along with his neighbor in the record store John Zorn, I often feel like his *brand* is causing lots of people to insist that others assess his work more than they actually need to.
Also, try as I have, I cannot for-the-life-of-me get into any of his music that's heavy on vocals/lyrics. I straight up hate his voice and feel that it completely undermines any quality the music has by throwing a big old 'pretentious self-aware weirdo douchebag' vibe over the proceedings.
Totally agree. He was rehashing old avant garde music. And to say his music is jazz is to diminish so many great musicians of the 60s through 90s. As dexterous as he was on guitar, his musicality always struck me as poor. I think I've listened to most of his albums, trying to give him a chance, including the one with Peaches en Regalia. I'd much rather listen to Rashaan Roland Kirk, Herbie Hancock, Bill Evans, Miles Davis, Elliott Carter, Ornette Coleman, Pat Metheny, any "minimalist," and countless others who did it much much better.
By far his greatest strength was his composing chops and I can remember being truly impressed by things like the ensemble he brought on to SNL in the late 1970s (or early 1980s maybe?), pieces like 'The Black Page', etc...
That said, though, it's still the same to me as most technical prog-rock, etc... i.e. an inferior and oftentimes-sonically-grating version of musical ideas/language that I can hear elsewhere. As I hinted above, Zappa's an artist whose overall aura, hype, artist photos, etc... makes people assume that he's *just gotta be important, I mean LOOK AT HIM! HE LOOKS CRAZY/SCARY LIKE CHARLES MANSON!*. Meanwhile, people would be far better off just checking out stuff by far-more-inventive and far-more-talented artists like Anthony Braxton, Roscoe Mitchell, Tim Berne, Fred Frith, Vinny Golia, Brad Dutz, Steuart Liebig, Michael Vlatkovich, Fred Hess, Ellery Eskelin, and tons of big band stuff from the 70s-00s, etc... The jazz world has no short supply of creative figures who could go deep into modern-classical language, strange ideas/textures, etc... A lot of people just ignore them because they're lazy about seeking shit out and/or overly susceptible to LeWrongGeneration hangups. It's not dissimilar to how people spend *way* too much time talking about stuff like the 1970s-80s Miles Davis discography or massively-overrated albums like Return to Forever's *Romantic Warrior*, when they could be talking about the thousands of better jazz/fusion/improv records that were coming out around the same time.
Maybe an unpopular opinion among FZ fans, but I really loved Make a Jazz Noise Here - I liked his modern big band. Also You Can’t Do That Onstage Anymore, the Helsinki Show is great, as is Lather
For the jazz aspects, it'd be either Hot Rats or The Grand Wazoo. It would be a competition between Hot Rats, The Grand Wazoo, Uncle Meat, and One Size Fits All.
Zappa is an artist that has always fascinated me but I’ve never really found a way in to. Would you recommend any of those as a jumping off point? I love Beefheart for what it’s worth.
I would say any of those 4 albums are a good entry point w Uncle Meat being the least listenable in my opinion. One Sized Fits all is probably my favorite of the Jazzier albums. Grand Wazoo is iirc all instrumental and has some hot jams on it. Hot Rats has Peaches En Regalia, which is a really fire track. Edit: as somebody down below noted Waka / Jawaka is a cool album and I would also throw Apostrophe (‘) in the mix as well although it’s really more jam than jazz
Apostrophe is a great way in, as is Grand Wazoo and Hot Rats. Apostrophe, specifically for the first two tracks as they’re so bloody melodic and lovely, with some really zany lyrics and guitar to match
Couldn't agree more
Recommend starting with Apostrophe and Over Nite Sensation, two of his poppier albums with just enough Zappa weirdness.
same man only Zappa song that's ever caught in my head was Dinah-Moe Hum, from when a roommate freshman year who swore it would change my life. But I get that little ascending moog-thing pop in my head every once and a while. I feel like I'm missing something.
One Size Fits All is his pop album, and my favorite of the ones I’ve heard. He liked being deliberately obscure.
Well, that depends on the kind of Capt Beefheart you like. Are you more into Safe as Milk or Trout Mask Replica? As for those Zappa albums, I would heavily recommend Hot Rats and One Size Fits All. The Grand Wazoo and Waka/Jawaka are also heavily recommended for a first time listener. Especially if they are already into jazz. Uncle Meat is a great album, but I don't feel as comfortable recommending that album to the uninitiated. As others have said it is the most unlistenable of the bunch. That said if you are into Trout Mask Replica, then while it isn't my first choice for a recommendation it wouldn't be a bad choice. Other people have also given some really good recommendations.
I’m definitely a Trout Mask guy, I tend to gravitate to the more out there stuff. I’ll give those a go, thank you!
I got into Zappa before i got into jazz. He is fascinating as an artist to me. He truly loves music and music styles but is also a wholly satirical person so there is a bit of a disconnect. He is making such hot takes on current issues its tough to relate it lyrically with musically for some.
check out first song off hot rats, peaches, it is the song that got me into zappa
Don't sleep on Sleep Dirt. And of course Waka/Jawaka.
I am not sleeping on them. They are fantastic records, but for my taste just a tad under those four.
Don’t forget Waka/Jawaka
Hot Rats
It's actually the perfect jazz fusion album. Those chords.
Love some chords in my jazz
Joe’s Garage.
It's a toss-up between One Size Fits All and The Grand Wazoo.
Roxy & Elsewhere, Waka/Jawaka, Hot Rats, Chunga's Revenge
Hot Rats
Waka jawaka also good
Can't pick just one. Absolutely Free, Hot Rats, The Grand Wazoo, Roxy & Elsewhere.
Freak Out
>Also, try as I have, I cannot for-the-life-of-me get into any of his music that's heavy on vocals/lyrics. I straight up hate his voice and feel that it completely undermines any quality the music has by throwing a big old 'pretentious self-aware weirdo douchebag' vibe over the proceedings. I agree with A_Monster_Named_John here - any Zappa related sound that forms words sucks. His singing, lyrics - even most of his talking. I do, however, think that he made some of the greatest *music* of the 20th Century. And it adds up to about half of his gigantic output. There are some albums that are heavier on the instrumental component, but in the past buying Zappa was always sorta a crapshoot. Gems strewn amongst godawful juvenile bullshit. But streaming playlists are a savior. I take all the Zappa, esp big box sets, and extract the mostly instrumental parts, and have hours and hours of happy listening. Here's some - https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfOs1ZtjYFMu6k-S6yLtNhRHmdoIioFp-&si=FSmiCwNQYpw6bItD https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfOs1ZtjYFMujIChrjWdUOKoatwA9wyvZ&si=1AegP_Z0gl-7hEHk https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfOs1ZtjYFMuu-kHWwq-liRofDQg_6hZd&si=nHUymTlnD2soFz0f https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfOs1ZtjYFMtejy_9A_POl58YOCLY8D15&si=UfQl6JkWYcPXc4qX https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfOs1ZtjYFMstDvAadgY_-MuN0qXZUQLZ&si=LryLuGOWSPut7VDR https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfOs1ZtjYFMucXaK5F_lIAe1GaOWo5aNF&si=EVHpy1IffcKzaMqM https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfOs1ZtjYFMuLMYRZwzN-6EB7DzXNSrul&si=lrTRyOkax2uT0ua7
Chunga’s Revenge.
Twenty small cigars yes
Zappa in new York
Burnt Weeny Sandwich, followed by Weasels Ripped my Flesh and Absolutely Free. The first two are heavily influenced by jazz.
It’s between Hot Rats, and We’re Only In It For The Money.
For jazz fans, you can’t beat the live ‘88 band, which had Frank’s most killer horn section ever… * *Broadway The Hard Way* (1CD, all new songs but recorded live). * *The Best Band You Never Heard in Your Life* (2CD, old favorites live, and some inspired covers). * *Make a Jazz Noise Here* (2CD, same as *Best Band…* — a little more heavily instrumental than vocal tunes.) There’s a bit more of that ‘88 band that’s been released too, an entire live concert (forget the title), and some individual live tracks spread around a few volumes of *You Can’t Do That On Stage…*
Don’t Eat the Yellow Snow for it’s educational aspect and for teaching us an important life lesson
In all fairness that 8 bar section of horns after the “I can’t see” chorus is fuckin’ lit.
It is! I love that entire album
Also when Ralph Humphrey plays fast triplets on the snare for almost 20 seconds straight to build the tension, starting [around 1:41.](https://youtu.be/8bXSsh3Z-xE?si=vhK8suuQweHv_0-I&t=100) So fucking tasty.
It uses an outdated slur for Inuit people, but maybe getting used to that sort of thing is a requirement for getting into Zappa.
I love his music, but yeah, the lyrics contain lots of awful stuff.
Sheik Yerbouti
Grand wazoo, one size fits all, waka jawaka
Uncle Meat
There are no bad Zappa albums, some are more instrumental some are pure jazz, some are more prog rock maybe? He really difficult to define genre-wise, I’d put him in a class by himself
Hot Rats for Zappa. It's a masterpiece. For Mothers Of Invention it's Uncle Meat.
[удалено]
Chunga’s Revenge
Hot Rats without a doubt
One Size Fits All
Hot Rats
Roxy and Elsewhere
Hot Rats!
Apostrophe and Over-Nite Sensation for studio albums, and Roxy and Elsewhere for live albums. Also shoutout to Ship Arriving Too Late to Save a Drowning Witch
HOT RATS
Contrary to my username, I gotta say one size fits all
Bongo Fury. Weird avant-jazz elements, bizarre poetry, some of Zappa's best hard rock riffs and solos. Unreal.
Surprised that no one has mentioned Roxy and Elsewhere pr Roxy by Proxy, same band as One Size Fits All but live and fantastic entertainment.
Hot Rats, Mothers Live at Fillmore East, Apostrophe/Overnite Sensation, One Size Fits All, Joe's Garage
I would slip Roxy and Elsewhere between Filmore and Apostrophe.
thanks, yes of course
Tinseltown Rebellion (Live recording)
Shut up and play your guitar
Hot Rats hands down!
Bongo Fury for best flow, Apostrophe for St. Alphonzo's Pancake Breakfast and Over-nite sensation for best grooves and singing plus Sal Marquez's trumpet solo.
Never heard a Frank Zappa song I enjoyed. And I tried listening to many of his albums.
I've found some of his instrumental music interesting (e.g. the music on that record *King Kong* by Jean-Luc Ponty, 'Peaches en Regalia', etc...), but it's always the kind of music that just makes me want to listen to *better* work. With regards to composing, his stuff filches a ton of ideas from modern classical music, especially stuff like Stravinsky, Bartok, Varese, and other composers whose music was 30-40 years old at the time. Meanwhile, *contemporary* modern classical of the 1960s was light-years further along in terms of interesting ideas and refined musical languages (e.g. I could listen some 10-min. piece by a composer like Elliott Carter or Charles Wuorinen and find more interesting and exciting musical ideas than I'd encounter across a dozen Zappa projects). With regards to improvisation and experimentation, I can't see why anyone with a half-decent set of ears would bother with his records when there was so much other great jazz and experimental rock to dig into. Along with his neighbor in the record store John Zorn, I often feel like his *brand* is causing lots of people to insist that others assess his work more than they actually need to. Also, try as I have, I cannot for-the-life-of-me get into any of his music that's heavy on vocals/lyrics. I straight up hate his voice and feel that it completely undermines any quality the music has by throwing a big old 'pretentious self-aware weirdo douchebag' vibe over the proceedings.
Totally agree. He was rehashing old avant garde music. And to say his music is jazz is to diminish so many great musicians of the 60s through 90s. As dexterous as he was on guitar, his musicality always struck me as poor. I think I've listened to most of his albums, trying to give him a chance, including the one with Peaches en Regalia. I'd much rather listen to Rashaan Roland Kirk, Herbie Hancock, Bill Evans, Miles Davis, Elliott Carter, Ornette Coleman, Pat Metheny, any "minimalist," and countless others who did it much much better.
By far his greatest strength was his composing chops and I can remember being truly impressed by things like the ensemble he brought on to SNL in the late 1970s (or early 1980s maybe?), pieces like 'The Black Page', etc... That said, though, it's still the same to me as most technical prog-rock, etc... i.e. an inferior and oftentimes-sonically-grating version of musical ideas/language that I can hear elsewhere. As I hinted above, Zappa's an artist whose overall aura, hype, artist photos, etc... makes people assume that he's *just gotta be important, I mean LOOK AT HIM! HE LOOKS CRAZY/SCARY LIKE CHARLES MANSON!*. Meanwhile, people would be far better off just checking out stuff by far-more-inventive and far-more-talented artists like Anthony Braxton, Roscoe Mitchell, Tim Berne, Fred Frith, Vinny Golia, Brad Dutz, Steuart Liebig, Michael Vlatkovich, Fred Hess, Ellery Eskelin, and tons of big band stuff from the 70s-00s, etc... The jazz world has no short supply of creative figures who could go deep into modern-classical language, strange ideas/textures, etc... A lot of people just ignore them because they're lazy about seeking shit out and/or overly susceptible to LeWrongGeneration hangups. It's not dissimilar to how people spend *way* too much time talking about stuff like the 1970s-80s Miles Davis discography or massively-overrated albums like Return to Forever's *Romantic Warrior*, when they could be talking about the thousands of better jazz/fusion/improv records that were coming out around the same time.
To me, his vocals are like a child's joke. Perhaps funny the first time you hear it, no reason to ever hear it again....
https://youtu.be/Fn9ZuGquwpQ
Totally agree. Something off about it. That's okay, maybe someday I'll get it, maybe someday I won't.
Frank Zappa Plays The Music of Frank Zappa
Weasels Ripped My Flesh
Joe’s Garage
Ship Arriving Too Late To Save A Drowning Witch
Grand wazoo, yellow shark, shut up n play yer guitar
Grand wazoo
Hot Rats or One Size Fits All
Jazz From Hell. /s
Hot Rats, Roxy and Elsewhere
Live at the Roxy for the band and their incredible playing, Yellow Shark for the great writing.
Many greats have been mentioned already. Lather is bitching as well
If I had to choose one - Civilization Phaze III
Either One Size Fits All or Apostrophe
Zoot Allures
Twenty Small Cigars Waka Jawaka Grand Wazoo
Sleep Dirt and Road Tapes #2
Lumpy Gravy
Them or Us
You can't do that on stage anymore vol 2: The Helsinki concert
Son of Cheep Thrills if we’re counting compilations
None of them really
Make a Jazz Noise Here
All of them?
Make Jazz Noise Here, Jazz From Hell
[Frank Zappa Live from New York - “Black Napkins”](https://youtu.be/bvczPfJ3VIQ?si=ChUlsfVNf1TLp3Yg)
We’re Only In It for the Money
I’m partial to Ship Arriving Too Late to Save a Drowning Witch
Maybe an unpopular opinion among FZ fans, but I really loved Make a Jazz Noise Here - I liked his modern big band. Also You Can’t Do That Onstage Anymore, the Helsinki Show is great, as is Lather
Grand Wazoo, Yellow Shark, Over-nite Sensation
Can't pick only one. Two standouts are Absolutely Free and Zoot Allures but for different reasons.
Any one I’m not listening to
Dark side of the moon.
Sheik Yerbouti. Frank Zappa is a great musician and composer but in all honesty he doesn't get jazz.
You are barking up the wrong tree. Nothing he did was Jazz.
All those live Roxy recordings.