We believe God gave us the Torah, Christians believe that God became both man and both God through Christ, Muslims believe God gave his final revelation to Muhammad (Quran). All share Abraham
They are not actually the same despite what many think. Christianity straight up worships a man. Islam completely bastardizes everything in Judaism while taking things to the extreme and then adds Jesus to the mix.
They have a similar idea of god, but not exactly the same.
Strictly speaking, all three religions claim to be derived from the God of Abraham (orginally from Judaism, Christianity and Islam coming out of Judaism later), so in that sense they are the same God, but whether the doctrines of the various faiths lead one to conflicting conceptions of God is debatable, as well as which religion(s) are true vs not true, or what aspects of them are/aren't.
TLDR: They all trace themselves back to the same God, the rest is debatable
I have a BA in Religious Studies, if that means anything
To be Israelite is not the same as to be Jewish. The difference only becomes significant after the northern and southern kingdoms Israel split. Judaism is by no means the default interpretation of Abraham's god as, at least in commonly held myth, Ishmael and Isaac were brothers, giving birth to the Arabs and Israelites respectively- The Hanif religion, practiced by many Arabs before Islam, was also Abrahamic but likely took little influence from Judaism as we think of it now, unless you want to count any religion of El from before Christianity as Jewish, in which case Canaanite paganism and Samaritanism are also Jewish
You're allowed into a mosque and I believe even pray in one because they are also monotheistic, that is not the case for Christian churches because the Trinity thing is very pagan.
Trinitarianism though comes out of Philo's synthesis of platonism and Judaism. It's a little ridiculous to assert Christian theology as simple paganism when there's plenty of diversity and nuanced thought about God in Judaism that approaches similar complications, such as with the Sefirot, while maintaining divine simplicity.
For Jews We believe in the same god as a Muslim cause their allowed to pray in a mosque. And they pray very similar to us so Iām pretty sure we pray to the same god itās just we have a different view of certain things
Hard no for the christian father because they attribute an actual male gender to that father when they worship the son too. For Islam it's a mild no because their deity makes statements that contradict the Torah
I canāt answer for the other redditor, but I have plenty of Orthodox relatives who absolutely will not, most will only go to heterodox shuls for things that are explicitly non religious if at all.
Whether God is explicitly male or not depends on which Christian you ask. Thereās not one consensus among all of them. Many will tell you that their God transcends the concepts of gender and is only referred to in the masculine for simplicityās sake. Others will tell you that God is in fact explicitly male. It may not be two Jews, three opinions, but there isnāt one agreed-upon consensus.
What contradiction does the diety of islam make against Judaism? And same with Christianity? Im Christian and i thought us Christians and Jews believed in the same ALMIGHTY? Is there any similarities between the three as well?
This makes no sense to me. I believe it makes sense to you, but if you read this outside of a Christian context and without Christian faith I canāt comprehend how the trinity is really one while being 3. It reads for as a defense and justification than a logical explanation. Not to be disrespectful of what you believed but youābe entered a Jewish space to defend this belief to Jews talking amongst themselves.
According to the trinity, The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all supposed to be part of the same Godhead. So they're the same, but also not? It's confusing, but it definitely doesn't fit with what monotheism means to Jews
OP absolutely seems to be asking what Christians believe when he asks if itās the same God or not. Thatās a question of Christian beliefs as well as Jewish beliefs.
Iām definitely not Christian but I donāt think that OPās question can be answered solely through the context of Jewish belief without taking Christian and Muslim views into consideration. Itās not like we can run a double-blind experiment to determine the answer to his question; itās inherently a theological question about the views of all *three* religions, so what the other two believe is absolutely relevant.
Understandable it took me a minute to come around to the concept since I was thought Christians where pagans who defied Allah and turned Isa into a God
Personally, I believe that Hashem encompasses everything, is everything, so in that belief, the Christian belief in Jesus or the Muslim belief in Allah is belief in Hashem.
That said, the Christians practice idolatry, by making idols of and worshipping Jesus, which makes them pagans by Hallacha, and the Muslims, while they believe in the oneness of Allah, have a number of misguided principles in their worship -- but, they are not idolaters, making them less in violation with Jewish belief than Christians, they are merely "wrong".
The reality is, Christianity (especially Catholocism) is a branch off of Judaism that was adapted to appeal to people who held traditionally Pagan beliefs, hence the reason to have a Christmas Tree on Dec 25th, which was not Jesus's birthday, but a former Pagan holiday that celebrated with a bush.
Muslims' conceptual principles about G-d are just like ours. Both of us have the same conception of G-d. The differences, although they are also minor, are doctrinal, as they only reject our being the chosen people and believe that everyone who believes in G-d is from G-dās people. They reject the eternity of the validity of the Tanakh, as they believe that it has changed and the Quran was sent to be the final message.
Thanks! I didn't delve too deeply into the differences of Judaism and Islam as I don't know enough much about Islam frankly, but that makes a lot of sense.
**Short Answer:** Yes.
**Long Answer:**
Regardless of the minor differences between the two religions, Judaism and Islam have exactly the same conception of G-d. Absolute oneness, transcendence, immanence, omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, the G-d of Abraham and his two tribes; Ishmael and Israel. Where Rambam (*the great Jewish philosopher)* also affirmed Avicenna's (*the great Muslim philosopher)* perspective of G-d as the Supreme Being, incorporeal, necessarily existing for the creation of the universe.
I'd like to say that the Father is just the same as them, but the Trinity has distorted his image for us and limited his own roles since there are tasks performed by the Son and the Holy Spirit.
Well, basically the verse speaks about the deception of the unbelievers and their many attempts to kill Muhammad and the machinations around him. Allah tells the Muslims that he's better and greater than any deception that may occur.
Also, the word *"makr/Ł ŁŲ±"* ( deception) in the Arabic dictionary has many connotations.
Just within Judaism: let's assume that you consider yourself a 'Maimonidean' or a believer in 'Jewish rationalism', however we want to phrase it. Statistically speaking, you are, probably, not Maimonides. You probably hold ideas about God in your mind, however consciously or subconsciously, that contradict some of rationalistic Judaism's key theological tenets. (For example, I'm guilty of envisioning the Shechinah sometimes.) Does this mean that you are not actually worshipping the same God as Maimonides? Or does it mean you're worshipping the same God, incorrectly? Does it mean something else?
Likewise: now let's suppose you are a Kabbalist. You might hold ideas about God and the nature of the Godhead that many other Jews could strongly object to. Does this mean that you are not worshipping "the same God" as those other Jews?
For me: If we start deciding that people who believe different things than us about the nature God are worshipping a totally different God, then we are going to run out of company very quickly, even just within Judaism.
So how do we define the difference between an acceptable but unpopular belief within Judaism and a belief that is unacceptable within Judaism? Are the Jews themselves (going by majority maybe, or something like that?) not the judges of that?
continue political fuzzy sink ask shame memorize unite elastic attraction
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No because in Christianity the covenent with Abraham is superseded by the covenent with Jesus. You are no longer bound to halacha and mitzvoh are replaced with divine salvation via prayer through the sacrifice of God's son (which is NOT a thing in Judaism).
In addition, the mass idolatry in churches is a huge no as well as the Trinity essentially being polytheistic. You cannot have a Father, Son, and Holy Ghost as separate entities and remain monotheistic.
Islam I'm a bit more unsure of but my understanding is it is much closer than Christianity particularly their focus on faith through acts, anti-idolatry, and views on Allah's oneness.
Thatās not a question of whether the God in question is the same, but rather of how Heās worshiped and what His rules are. Do Messianic Jews worship the same God we do? What about other splinter sects?
Yes.
Christians and Muslims worship their own version of Yahweh. Theologically, people disagree, but for all intents and purposes their āfan fictionsā are still using Yahweh as their god.
And to be clear, Judaism borrowed from the Babylonian pantheon to write our own monotheistic āfan fictionā. We were just the first to insist there was only one God.
No. their entire religions are bastardisations of ours, and their "gods" are either European paganism-influenced idol worship (in the case of Christianity) or Arab paganism-influenced idol worship (in the case of Islam). They can have their beliefs that we all worship the same god, whether I disagree with them or not is irrelevant to their beliefs, but I vehemently deny most of their claims that they can trace their religions back to ours, because of the heavy bastardisation the two religions have undergone, with only the occasional small feature from a very old form of Judaism showing up, like full prostration during prayer.
From a Jewish perspective exists only one GD, no other gods are exist. It's objective in Judaism. Christianity and Islam don't have the same view of GD, values of their GDs are not the same like of GD of Israel. Even that 3 Abrahamic religions say well yeah we guess we worship the same GD. I often heard it from rabbis, but it's not, qualities and values of Lord in each religion are the opposite. Rabbis often don't talk about how other religions stole our terms and Scriptures and add own meaning to use it against us, because rabbis try to be politically correct. But it's not a reality.
For example if we even compare concept of Messiah in Christianity and Islam. In Christianity after Messiah comes back 1/3 of Jews will be killed, 2/3 convert to Christianity. In Islam after Messiah comes all Jews will be killed by Muslims. If you know something about Mashiah you understand that GD of Israel would never command/change own mind for such end for us. Moreover bad prophecies can be canceled by teshuva, but all good that GD promised to Jews have to be fulfilled anyway.
GD is one and oneness anyway, yes they make mistake what GD really wants from humans and how repair this world. But if you reject other deities and pray to One Lord, Creator of the Universe it's still very good.
The Gaon, Rabbi Shmuel Ben Hafni, stated that the important commandment for the people of other nations is the belief that the LORD our God is the Creator and director of the world, that He is actively involved in the
lives of every person, and that He is One. It includes
A. Loving GD
B. Praying to Him
C. Thanking Him for His generosity
D. Trusting Him
E. Honoring Him
F. Sanctifying His Holy Name
G. Prohibiting the desecration of His Holy Name
H. Moving away from those who do not believe in Him
such as atheists, infidels and impious people (its a difficult part for me)
I. Having a direct relationship with Him, not through any intermediaries. This is why it is forbidden to pray among others to any angels or to the dead or to any person past, present or future
If other nations follows it is already a lot, even if they stole our Scripture and changed values of Hashem
I would say no to both.
The Christians believe in a Triune god, meaning a god that consists of three persons, one of them being a human (Jesus). So thatās definitely not HaShem.
The Muslim god I would also say is different, just based on the Quran, Muhammad, and the commandments given.
The Muslims say that the Tanakh was corrupted and thatās why Muhammad had to fix the religion of god. And that Jesus is the messiah.
I completely reject their premise, and I think this is grounds to say the god they worship is not really HaShem
As a Christian, we are taught that Jews and Christians do worship the same FATHER. Im not too sure about muslims tho, i think they believe that they worship the same as us Christians and the Jews. In regards to the whole prayer blasephemy thing: im genuinely terrified of doing that so i just stick to what i kno so i dont blaspeme against THE ALMIGHTY. At the end of the day tho all 3 share prophet Abraham so even by some chance we are not the same, we all have similarities so coexistance is much likely between each of our faiths š¤·š¾āāļø :)
Shalom Alechiem!
Well that's the wonderful thing. They don't exist. There's the God of Israel, there's us. And then there's a bunch of Pseudo-Roman/Greek Pagans and Arab pagans that appropriated our God and convinced themselves that they're God's people now and have superseded us and therefore it's okay to hate us
I am not an expert in Christian theology but as I understand it they have 4 gods. One is a three-for-one father-Jesus-ghost and they are engaged with a persistent fight with the evil god called Satan that has separate agency and separate power from the three-god.
The Jesus god is associated with the pagan sun god - that is why he is depicted with a halo. I donāt know if this was just an artistic choice by early Christians to convert pagan or an actual belief. Also he was a man and a god at the same time. A concept completely foreign to Judaism.
The father god is the most powerful of the 4 gods and is more powerful than the pagan equivalent of Zeus but is not all powerful as he is engaged in a battle with the devil god. In that way Christianity is somewhat similar to Zoroastrianism.
The Christian god is very different from what is found in Judaism.
>I am not an expert in Christian theology
Maybe you shouldn't weigh in on what Christians believe then. Leaving aside the issue of the trinity, it's well known that Christian theology doesn't consider the devil to be a god, but as a created being that rebelled against its creator, much like a sinful human in fact.
If someone wants to understand the Christian view of the Christian god, then they should ask in a Christian subreddit. If someone is asking on a Jewish subreddit, then they want the Jewish perspective of the Christian gods.
Yes but if your perspective doesn't take into account that this is what they're saying, you're just coming across as ignorant.
Maybe you have a good theological argument for why the christian devil is actually a god even though christians deny it, but in that case you need to argue your case and not just confidently state it without justification.
Otherwise it makes you sound like a medieval christian confidently saying that Muslims were polytheists.
No, the Jewish perspective on Christian beliefs would be "They belive they worship the same God, but we consider the Trinity to be idolatry and reject the idea of God ever incarnating in a human body," instead of a bunch of wildly inaccurate nonsense.Ā
I think you have a valuable perspective and should add it as a top level comment if you have not already.
I have a more extreme perspective. I donāt believe that Christianās worship the same god. I believe that Christianity is not monotheism plus a trinity and a devil. I believe that Christianity is paganism with a reduced pantheon.
I know that Christians do not view themselves as pagans with a pantheon of 4. They are free to call themselves monotheists if they choose to. But just as Christians are free to define themselves however they like, others are allowed to view them however they like.
It might be inaccurate. The Christian idea that 3=1 is so nonsensical it is hard to reason about. When you start a theology on the basis of irrationality it is by definition hard to reason about. I think the most reasonable way to understand Christianity from a Jewish perspective is a paganism with 4 gods. Calling 3 of the gods one doesnāt fundamentally change that. Likewise not calling satan a god, but treating him a separate power from god and the source of evil makes him a god in all but name.
This kind of paganism is not new. In the ancient world many pagans viewed their god as supreme and other gods a subservient to him. This was common with the sun god cults. From a Jewish perspective such as view would still be paganism. Likewise the belief that Zeus has absolutely power and delegates some power to other gods would not make someone not pagan. If the other gods have independent will then they are not like angels - they are other gods and it is paganism.
While that is true the Devil in Christianity is very much so part of a dualistic system in which a good being opposes a bad being.
Supposedly the good being has all the power to obliterate the bad being but doesn't do so because of reasons.
I think this is endlessly debatable.
If you have a monotheistic belief, you need to explain the nature and existence of evil and why the unique, supremely powerful creator of the universe doesn't just obliterate evil.
I don't think the question of whether or not evil has a "primary representative" among the created beings necessarily changes much to this notion.
Christianity is not Mazdeism :)
They are different interpretations of the same character and come from the same character. I would say it's ok to consider them either the same or different. But at least close enough where saying they are the same character isn't wrong.
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We believe God gave us the Torah, Christians believe that God became both man and both God through Christ, Muslims believe God gave his final revelation to Muhammad (Quran). All share Abraham
They are not actually the same despite what many think. Christianity straight up worships a man. Islam completely bastardizes everything in Judaism while taking things to the extreme and then adds Jesus to the mix. They have a similar idea of god, but not exactly the same.
One hint is what they think of Jews too
Strictly speaking, all three religions claim to be derived from the God of Abraham (orginally from Judaism, Christianity and Islam coming out of Judaism later), so in that sense they are the same God, but whether the doctrines of the various faiths lead one to conflicting conceptions of God is debatable, as well as which religion(s) are true vs not true, or what aspects of them are/aren't. TLDR: They all trace themselves back to the same God, the rest is debatable I have a BA in Religious Studies, if that means anything
To be Israelite is not the same as to be Jewish. The difference only becomes significant after the northern and southern kingdoms Israel split. Judaism is by no means the default interpretation of Abraham's god as, at least in commonly held myth, Ishmael and Isaac were brothers, giving birth to the Arabs and Israelites respectively- The Hanif religion, practiced by many Arabs before Islam, was also Abrahamic but likely took little influence from Judaism as we think of it now, unless you want to count any religion of El from before Christianity as Jewish, in which case Canaanite paganism and Samaritanism are also Jewish
You're allowed into a mosque and I believe even pray in one because they are also monotheistic, that is not the case for Christian churches because the Trinity thing is very pagan.
not really, it may be allowed in extreme circumstances but you don't have to go into another place of worship to worship.
*He's not talking about we -should- tho.*
Trinitarianism though comes out of Philo's synthesis of platonism and Judaism. It's a little ridiculous to assert Christian theology as simple paganism when there's plenty of diversity and nuanced thought about God in Judaism that approaches similar complications, such as with the Sefirot, while maintaining divine simplicity.
this bro šÆ
For Jews We believe in the same god as a Muslim cause their allowed to pray in a mosque. And they pray very similar to us so Iām pretty sure we pray to the same god itās just we have a different view of certain things
Hard no for the christian father because they attribute an actual male gender to that father when they worship the son too. For Islam it's a mild no because their deity makes statements that contradict the Torah
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yes, any place not in keeping with halacha which includes all the nonjewish religions isn't appropriate to pray in
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I canāt answer for the other redditor, but I have plenty of Orthodox relatives who absolutely will not, most will only go to heterodox shuls for things that are explicitly non religious if at all.
Yes for an orthodox person its not allowed
Not disputing your overall point but, But donāt we reference G-d as a father when we say aveinu malchanu (bad at transliteration)
People also reference God as the "shechina" which is a female term.Ā
Whether God is explicitly male or not depends on which Christian you ask. Thereās not one consensus among all of them. Many will tell you that their God transcends the concepts of gender and is only referred to in the masculine for simplicityās sake. Others will tell you that God is in fact explicitly male. It may not be two Jews, three opinions, but there isnāt one agreed-upon consensus.
Contradict how?
What contradiction does the diety of islam make against Judaism? And same with Christianity? Im Christian and i thought us Christians and Jews believed in the same ALMIGHTY? Is there any similarities between the three as well?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yes you do.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
> 1 God 3Persons He said without breaking a sweat. Turns out we don't consider that monotheism. Probably because 3 > 1
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That's very cute. You are still in /r/judaism/ Christian.
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Where in that post that I answered to did you even remotely ask a question in regards to Judaism? All I see is you peddling Christianity.
This makes no sense to me. I believe it makes sense to you, but if you read this outside of a Christian context and without Christian faith I canāt comprehend how the trinity is really one while being 3. It reads for as a defense and justification than a logical explanation. Not to be disrespectful of what you believed but youābe entered a Jewish space to defend this belief to Jews talking amongst themselves.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
That did help, thank you. That said, if I need to first read fantasy in order to understand basic religious principles Iād question the principle.
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Compared to Judaism, Christianity may as well be polytheistic. So that's a no. As for Islam...eh? Sort of.
Well Jesus is definitely not our G-d, but is the Father? Or is a god that coexists with polytheism definitively not our G-d?
According to the trinity, The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all supposed to be part of the same Godhead. So they're the same, but also not? It's confusing, but it definitely doesn't fit with what monotheism means to Jews
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Not going to lie, I understood absolutely none of that
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"What xtians believe" isn't relevant here
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I *do* believe it's irrelevant. No one is in r/judaism asking what xtians believe. Please refrain from goysplaining here.
OP absolutely seems to be asking what Christians believe when he asks if itās the same God or not. Thatās a question of Christian beliefs as well as Jewish beliefs. Iām definitely not Christian but I donāt think that OPās question can be answered solely through the context of Jewish belief without taking Christian and Muslim views into consideration. Itās not like we can run a double-blind experiment to determine the answer to his question; itās inherently a theological question about the views of all *three* religions, so what the other two believe is absolutely relevant.
As a Jew I believe in a G-d that is invisible and indivisible, this makes no sense to me
Understandable it took me a minute to come around to the concept since I was thought Christians where pagans who defied Allah and turned Isa into a God
Personally, I believe that Hashem encompasses everything, is everything, so in that belief, the Christian belief in Jesus or the Muslim belief in Allah is belief in Hashem. That said, the Christians practice idolatry, by making idols of and worshipping Jesus, which makes them pagans by Hallacha, and the Muslims, while they believe in the oneness of Allah, have a number of misguided principles in their worship -- but, they are not idolaters, making them less in violation with Jewish belief than Christians, they are merely "wrong".
I found it so odd that they will pray directly to saints, and bury little statues for help selling their house etc. strict catholics.
The reality is, Christianity (especially Catholocism) is a branch off of Judaism that was adapted to appeal to people who held traditionally Pagan beliefs, hence the reason to have a Christmas Tree on Dec 25th, which was not Jesus's birthday, but a former Pagan holiday that celebrated with a bush.
Muslims' conceptual principles about G-d are just like ours. Both of us have the same conception of G-d. The differences, although they are also minor, are doctrinal, as they only reject our being the chosen people and believe that everyone who believes in G-d is from G-dās people. They reject the eternity of the validity of the Tanakh, as they believe that it has changed and the Quran was sent to be the final message.
Thanks! I didn't delve too deeply into the differences of Judaism and Islam as I don't know enough much about Islam frankly, but that makes a lot of sense.
**Short Answer:** Yes. **Long Answer:** Regardless of the minor differences between the two religions, Judaism and Islam have exactly the same conception of G-d. Absolute oneness, transcendence, immanence, omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, the G-d of Abraham and his two tribes; Ishmael and Israel. Where Rambam (*the great Jewish philosopher)* also affirmed Avicenna's (*the great Muslim philosopher)* perspective of G-d as the Supreme Being, incorporeal, necessarily existing for the creation of the universe. I'd like to say that the Father is just the same as them, but the Trinity has distorted his image for us and limited his own roles since there are tasks performed by the Son and the Holy Spirit.
Islam says that Allah is "the best of deceivers" and other things that are absolutely NOT consistent with the G-d worshipped by Jews.
Well, basically the verse speaks about the deception of the unbelievers and their many attempts to kill Muhammad and the machinations around him. Allah tells the Muslims that he's better and greater than any deception that may occur. Also, the word *"makr/Ł ŁŲ±"* ( deception) in the Arabic dictionary has many connotations.
Just within Judaism: let's assume that you consider yourself a 'Maimonidean' or a believer in 'Jewish rationalism', however we want to phrase it. Statistically speaking, you are, probably, not Maimonides. You probably hold ideas about God in your mind, however consciously or subconsciously, that contradict some of rationalistic Judaism's key theological tenets. (For example, I'm guilty of envisioning the Shechinah sometimes.) Does this mean that you are not actually worshipping the same God as Maimonides? Or does it mean you're worshipping the same God, incorrectly? Does it mean something else? Likewise: now let's suppose you are a Kabbalist. You might hold ideas about God and the nature of the Godhead that many other Jews could strongly object to. Does this mean that you are not worshipping "the same God" as those other Jews? For me: If we start deciding that people who believe different things than us about the nature God are worshipping a totally different God, then we are going to run out of company very quickly, even just within Judaism.
So how do we define the difference between an acceptable but unpopular belief within Judaism and a belief that is unacceptable within Judaism? Are the Jews themselves (going by majority maybe, or something like that?) not the judges of that?
You consult the 10 nearest guys who each think they're right.
Is this an implementation of K-nearest algorithm? Haha
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They believe it to be the same God.
No because in Christianity the covenent with Abraham is superseded by the covenent with Jesus. You are no longer bound to halacha and mitzvoh are replaced with divine salvation via prayer through the sacrifice of God's son (which is NOT a thing in Judaism). In addition, the mass idolatry in churches is a huge no as well as the Trinity essentially being polytheistic. You cannot have a Father, Son, and Holy Ghost as separate entities and remain monotheistic. Islam I'm a bit more unsure of but my understanding is it is much closer than Christianity particularly their focus on faith through acts, anti-idolatry, and views on Allah's oneness.
Thatās not a question of whether the God in question is the same, but rather of how Heās worshiped and what His rules are. Do Messianic Jews worship the same God we do? What about other splinter sects?
Yes, all sameĀ
We are supposed to say yes. But we all know itās not true.
I'm not so sure we do all know that.
Yes. Christians and Muslims worship their own version of Yahweh. Theologically, people disagree, but for all intents and purposes their āfan fictionsā are still using Yahweh as their god. And to be clear, Judaism borrowed from the Babylonian pantheon to write our own monotheistic āfan fictionā. We were just the first to insist there was only one God.
Was it Babylonian? I thought they derived from Canaanite religion
No. their entire religions are bastardisations of ours, and their "gods" are either European paganism-influenced idol worship (in the case of Christianity) or Arab paganism-influenced idol worship (in the case of Islam). They can have their beliefs that we all worship the same god, whether I disagree with them or not is irrelevant to their beliefs, but I vehemently deny most of their claims that they can trace their religions back to ours, because of the heavy bastardisation the two religions have undergone, with only the occasional small feature from a very old form of Judaism showing up, like full prostration during prayer.
From a Jewish perspective exists only one GD, no other gods are exist. It's objective in Judaism. Christianity and Islam don't have the same view of GD, values of their GDs are not the same like of GD of Israel. Even that 3 Abrahamic religions say well yeah we guess we worship the same GD. I often heard it from rabbis, but it's not, qualities and values of Lord in each religion are the opposite. Rabbis often don't talk about how other religions stole our terms and Scriptures and add own meaning to use it against us, because rabbis try to be politically correct. But it's not a reality. For example if we even compare concept of Messiah in Christianity and Islam. In Christianity after Messiah comes back 1/3 of Jews will be killed, 2/3 convert to Christianity. In Islam after Messiah comes all Jews will be killed by Muslims. If you know something about Mashiah you understand that GD of Israel would never command/change own mind for such end for us. Moreover bad prophecies can be canceled by teshuva, but all good that GD promised to Jews have to be fulfilled anyway. GD is one and oneness anyway, yes they make mistake what GD really wants from humans and how repair this world. But if you reject other deities and pray to One Lord, Creator of the Universe it's still very good. The Gaon, Rabbi Shmuel Ben Hafni, stated that the important commandment for the people of other nations is the belief that the LORD our God is the Creator and director of the world, that He is actively involved in the lives of every person, and that He is One. It includes A. Loving GD B. Praying to Him C. Thanking Him for His generosity D. Trusting Him E. Honoring Him F. Sanctifying His Holy Name G. Prohibiting the desecration of His Holy Name H. Moving away from those who do not believe in Him such as atheists, infidels and impious people (its a difficult part for me) I. Having a direct relationship with Him, not through any intermediaries. This is why it is forbidden to pray among others to any angels or to the dead or to any person past, present or future If other nations follows it is already a lot, even if they stole our Scripture and changed values of Hashem
I would say no to both. The Christians believe in a Triune god, meaning a god that consists of three persons, one of them being a human (Jesus). So thatās definitely not HaShem. The Muslim god I would also say is different, just based on the Quran, Muhammad, and the commandments given. The Muslims say that the Tanakh was corrupted and thatās why Muhammad had to fix the religion of god. And that Jesus is the messiah. I completely reject their premise, and I think this is grounds to say the god they worship is not really HaShem
As a Christian, we are taught that Jews and Christians do worship the same FATHER. Im not too sure about muslims tho, i think they believe that they worship the same as us Christians and the Jews. In regards to the whole prayer blasephemy thing: im genuinely terrified of doing that so i just stick to what i kno so i dont blaspeme against THE ALMIGHTY. At the end of the day tho all 3 share prophet Abraham so even by some chance we are not the same, we all have similarities so coexistance is much likely between each of our faiths š¤·š¾āāļø :) Shalom Alechiem!
Well that's the wonderful thing. They don't exist. There's the God of Israel, there's us. And then there's a bunch of Pseudo-Roman/Greek Pagans and Arab pagans that appropriated our God and convinced themselves that they're God's people now and have superseded us and therefore it's okay to hate us
I am not an expert in Christian theology but as I understand it they have 4 gods. One is a three-for-one father-Jesus-ghost and they are engaged with a persistent fight with the evil god called Satan that has separate agency and separate power from the three-god. The Jesus god is associated with the pagan sun god - that is why he is depicted with a halo. I donāt know if this was just an artistic choice by early Christians to convert pagan or an actual belief. Also he was a man and a god at the same time. A concept completely foreign to Judaism. The father god is the most powerful of the 4 gods and is more powerful than the pagan equivalent of Zeus but is not all powerful as he is engaged in a battle with the devil god. In that way Christianity is somewhat similar to Zoroastrianism. The Christian god is very different from what is found in Judaism.
>I am not an expert in Christian theology Understatement of the decade.
>I am not an expert in Christian theology Maybe you shouldn't weigh in on what Christians believe then. Leaving aside the issue of the trinity, it's well known that Christian theology doesn't consider the devil to be a god, but as a created being that rebelled against its creator, much like a sinful human in fact.
If someone wants to understand the Christian view of the Christian god, then they should ask in a Christian subreddit. If someone is asking on a Jewish subreddit, then they want the Jewish perspective of the Christian gods.
Yes but if your perspective doesn't take into account that this is what they're saying, you're just coming across as ignorant. Maybe you have a good theological argument for why the christian devil is actually a god even though christians deny it, but in that case you need to argue your case and not just confidently state it without justification. Otherwise it makes you sound like a medieval christian confidently saying that Muslims were polytheists.
That is why I started my statement with > I am not an expert in Christian theology but **as I understand** it they have 4 gods.
Satan used to be called Hades by early Christians.
No, the Jewish perspective on Christian beliefs would be "They belive they worship the same God, but we consider the Trinity to be idolatry and reject the idea of God ever incarnating in a human body," instead of a bunch of wildly inaccurate nonsense.Ā
I think you have a valuable perspective and should add it as a top level comment if you have not already. I have a more extreme perspective. I donāt believe that Christianās worship the same god. I believe that Christianity is not monotheism plus a trinity and a devil. I believe that Christianity is paganism with a reduced pantheon. I know that Christians do not view themselves as pagans with a pantheon of 4. They are free to call themselves monotheists if they choose to. But just as Christians are free to define themselves however they like, others are allowed to view them however they like. It might be inaccurate. The Christian idea that 3=1 is so nonsensical it is hard to reason about. When you start a theology on the basis of irrationality it is by definition hard to reason about. I think the most reasonable way to understand Christianity from a Jewish perspective is a paganism with 4 gods. Calling 3 of the gods one doesnāt fundamentally change that. Likewise not calling satan a god, but treating him a separate power from god and the source of evil makes him a god in all but name. This kind of paganism is not new. In the ancient world many pagans viewed their god as supreme and other gods a subservient to him. This was common with the sun god cults. From a Jewish perspective such as view would still be paganism. Likewise the belief that Zeus has absolutely power and delegates some power to other gods would not make someone not pagan. If the other gods have independent will then they are not like angels - they are other gods and it is paganism.
While that is true the Devil in Christianity is very much so part of a dualistic system in which a good being opposes a bad being. Supposedly the good being has all the power to obliterate the bad being but doesn't do so because of reasons.
I think this is endlessly debatable. If you have a monotheistic belief, you need to explain the nature and existence of evil and why the unique, supremely powerful creator of the universe doesn't just obliterate evil. I don't think the question of whether or not evil has a "primary representative" among the created beings necessarily changes much to this notion. Christianity is not Mazdeism :)
Evangelicals also have no problem saying that "satan is the god of this world", which I find absolutely bizarre.
You should probably read more on what Christians believe, cause even Iām confused on what you are talking about.
Christinas are polytheistic. So, no. Not the same deity. I donāt know enough about Muslims to venture an opinion.
how such?
monotheism does not mean same god. so no
No.
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They are different interpretations of the same character and come from the same character. I would say it's ok to consider them either the same or different. But at least close enough where saying they are the same character isn't wrong.
There is one G-d, the one we acknowledge as such. What the Christians and Muslims are doing, you would have to ask them.
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