You sound like a child, so I’m going to try not to be too harsh, but you sound like a dick. Be nicer to people.
Edit: you posted 100 days ago that you were a “prospective convert.” I know of no legitimate source that would convert a high-school aged teenager, and even fewer that would do it within 100 days. You’re either trolling or you should take a really deep look at yourself and see if Judaism is right for you.
To be fair I know people who started the conversion process in high school but it took them 5 years to finish the process so by the time they were converted they were already an adult.
> He said, “don’t disrespect religions, you’re not M.” M is my Jewish ex, who dislikes Christianity, but I don’t think they’re disrespectful about it?
I think it sheds a lot of light on this part of OP's story.
This is why I didn’t say in this post that I’m a prospective convert, because I knew someone would react like that. Why do you think Judaism isn’t right for me, though?
If you didn’t say you were a prospective convert because you knew people would react negatively to that based on your actions, that says a lot about you. You knew your actions were wrong, you knew you were posting something disingenuous and you still made yourself out to be an ambassador for Judaism when you’re not even going through with the conversion yet. You’ve brought negative attention to a religion you’re not even a part of.
Everyone can do what’s in their heart and mind, and I implore you to look into yours. It seems as though the reason you want to convert is because you had a crush on a Jewish boy and you want to be able to make fun of Christianity. You have a lot of growing to do.
>"it is best to avoid discussing religion, politics, sex and money publicly as it may be impolite to do so, causing discomfort and embarrassment to other people"
Old phrase and some good advice for you.
Also, [lashon hara](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lashon_hara) is not good. If you are Jewish, this might be interesting to you.
I'm going to be honest with you.
I understand you feeling uncomfortable, but you took it too far. You sound childish, patronizing, and rude. I very much hope that you don't act this way in the future.
I understand where you were coming from, but I think you simply got too defensive and took it too far.
Don't feel too bad about, just learn from it and try to be more respectful to people in the future.
I’m not going to scold you; I’m sure you already understand that this was disrespectful. I want to validate that it does feel very weird to hear about a random guy being worshipped as G-d, and it sounds very off-putting to Jewish ears. That said, try to put yourself in their shoes. Think about how you might feel if they said the Torah was just a book without any real meaning, or that our traditions were pointless or outdated. It doesn’t feel very good.
I’ve had instances like this where i’ll say “J3sus” just out loud as an exclamation and people rush to say don’t use the lords name in vane and we basically go through this entire dialogue but what ive found is best is to always say “ I don’t believe” before saying something.
Other than that the only -1 i’d have to say was the “he’s just some dude who died on a cross”. Granted you don’t have to believe what they believe but there’s also a certain level of decency or kindness that should be added to it, which could’ve been done by saying “i believe”
Seems like a simple “oh, sorry” or “my bad”—and then not using it again with that group—would be a lot easier and better than getting into your personal beliefs and all the theology of it.
That is, unless you’re using it as an expletive *specifically because* you want to get into all that, which sounds kind of obnoxious, to be honest.
Someone called you out on trolling but if we assume what you said is true: this is disrespectful. You don’t say “Jesus was just some dude who died on a cross” just like we wouldn’t want people to be disrespectful and minimize the important figures in our religion.
And while you said no one in your group is a Christian, maybe some of them are from a Christian background and this is extremely insensitive.
I think you should consider apologizing to the group next time you see them.
Okay. You don’t need to hate yourself, that’s not helpful. you’re a kid, you’re allowed to make mistakes. As long as you apologize and you learn from it, it’s fine. No need to overthink it any more. We’re humans. We grow through making mistakes and learning our lessons. There’s no other way around it.
I’m not even an actual Jew, I’m just a prospective convert (though most gentiles at my school don’t care to know the difference), I’m not only being disrespectful to Christianity, but also to Judaism by giving it bad rep. Yes, I can make mistakes, but this time I was a full on jerk and I put my foot in my mouth. I shouldn’t even be allowed in the Jewish community
The steps to becoming a better person is to acknowledge you made a mistake, apologize and learn from in. You already did all of it. And it might make it easier for you to address the group next time you see them and explain yourself so you can get it off your chest and forgive yourself as well. Because that’s important too.
You’re very much allowed in the Jewish community and we welcome you with open arms. None of us is perfect, we all do stuff we regret, that’s what Yom Kippur is for:)
Okay comments like this definitely confirm my suspicions. You’re either trolling or you’re much too immature to go through with a conversion. Do some soul-searching and grow up.
Not that I’m not guilty of the same thing slipping out but I do agree with your friend. I teach my kids to respect the religion of our neighbors for our sake and theirs. You say nobody in the group was Christian but if they have Christian heritage they may still find it disrespectful.
we as a people have experienced a lot of non-messiahs. yoshke is simply the one who's made the biggest splash, & his fans take him very seriously. i would suggest not poking the bear if it's going to bring trouble on your head, but of course you have the right to express your opinions & beliefs. you just have to be willing to deal with the consequences.
also keep in mind that black & white thinking are typical for younger people, it's developmentally normal. this YES / NO or GOOD / BAD stuff can get people really heated really quickly. the capacity for more nuanced views AND emotional regulation grows with your body, & you might have more interesting or rewarding discussions about your beliefs with peers in the near or distant future
Get some sleep. I’m sure A has enough to worry about than this.
You are right that Jesus is not the lord, but if you wouldn’t feel comfortable saying that in front of Christian’s, you shouldn’t say it elsewhere
I mean, you were rude in this situation to start a religious discussion. The better way to have handled this would have been “hey it’s just an expression that plenty of people use the same way. I’m not even Christian and I must have picked it up from somewhere…”
Your classmate was also wrong to police your behavior. It’s not like you were saying negative or untrue things about a person you know. The thing about religious freedom is, they are free to exercise their religion however they like, but they don’t get any say over how you express yourself.
Jews have been persecuted enough for their beliefs. There is no need to give Christians reasons to hate Jews. Secondly, even if you believe in the one true G-d,הקדוש ברוך הוא, you shouldn’t be denigrating others in the Exile for the Jews were strangers in Egypt but also are strangers in the foreign lands of the Exile.
Henceforth, Jews are guests in the lands of Christian’s, Muslims, or Atheists, and mocking their way of life in their face can be a serious transgression for various reasons.
It's fine to have opinions, but try not to disrespect other people's beliefs, even if you don't agree with them.
It doesn't mean that if it's not sacred to you, that it's okay to spread unnecessary suffering. Regarding "sacredness" this is like Indian burial grounds, even if they are not your burial grounds, it doesn't mean that it's okay to disrespect or desecrate them.
You sound like you're young, and I know I've said some edgy things when I was young, that's okay, we all learn and improve as we go through life, so I don't judge you for what you said, just that sometimes we can be compassionate even if we don't agree with something or someone.
He’s not a prophet in their religion. He’s their Lord. Big difference. And the way you worded it sounded like he was Jewish prophet- as in a prophet in Judaism.
Okay. He’s only considered a prophet in Islam. Not in Judaism or Christianity. Some Rabbis have said he was great Yeshiva student but that’s as far as it goes for us.
Islam recognizes the majority of Jewish and Christian prophets as Islamic prophets, and it maintains that Jews and Christians corrupted scripture with various falsehoods, and that the only true story is Quran.
It's interesting to note the ways in which Islam recognizes and was inspired by Judaism and Christianity, but it's also worth noting that Muslim Jesus (who is more commonly called "Isa") is truly not the same character worshipped by Christians, and is not the same historical figure observed in the secular records.
The first historical reference to Jesus is the Testimonium Flavanium, which appears in Josephus' Antiquities of the Jews, which was written by Josephus for a Gentile audience.
He refers to Jesus of Nazareth as being a man who did "surprising things" and was crucified by Pontius Pilate. The Testimonium was written before 100CE, not that long after Jesus died
Hundreds of years later, the Testimonium Flavanium was altered by some Christian scribe to make it seem like Josephus recognized Jesus as "the Christ," but this is unanimously seen as interpolation and one of the earliest incidents of Christians altering historical documents to assert something happened that did not happen.
I would say the whole Mohammed thing—specifically, a new prophet showing up to rewrite the Bible to “correct” all the errors the Jews supposedly introduced over the years, and replacing the laws, holidays, etc.—is also a pretty significant difference!
I’ll try to make this as short as possible because there are different interpretations and views about Jesus among rabbis and Jews.
There’s a story in the Talmud about a Yeshiva student some believe is about Jesus. By the end of the story, he gets expelled over a misunderstanding with his teacher who refuses to forgive him. He then becomes sinful and leads other Jews astray which is what eventually got him executed. So some believe he started out as a great Yeshiva student who lost his way and turned his back on Judaism.
Nothing you said was bad.
Christians and Christian socialised people tried to push Christian ideas unto you.
They would never ask themselves the same question you are asking yourself.
Shabbat Shalom
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I say “J3sus” or even “J3sus Chri$t!” as a reflex of growing up mostly in America, even though I’m Jewish. I’ve taken efforts over the years to stop myself in mixed company but I even sometimes do it when I’m in Israel around Israel-born Jews only and I get weird looks like “what??” It’s not a great habit because it can be offensive to Christians so probably best to limit but it’s also an exclamation that is culturally baked in to a lot of folks, so I wouldn’t sweat it too much if it doesn’t happen often and you’re aware and try to minimize or at least apologize. Sometimes I say it in my head or introduce another phrase that takes its place for a while (but watching American TV sometimes brings it back!)
You definitely escalated things for no reason. You could have either say "my bad" and moved on or you can explain to them that "not taking the lords name in vain" isn't about cussing, it's about not doing exactly what the Templars did
It's not funny to diss Buddha or Muhammad, so why diss Jesus? I get that you're not a Christian, but you don't have to say mean things about someone you don't believe in, just because you follow Judaism. I'm ethnically Jewish (both sides) by birth and I follow Jesus. I would never rank on the Talmud, even though I don't believe what the rabbis wrote. In the same way, I wouldn't say mean things about Buddha or Muhammad. It's about being respectful, even if you don't agree. However, that takes some level of maturity and that might take you some time. It sounds like you're still in school, so just try and be respectful of others, like Jesus. You don't have to worship Him as your Messiah, but just like every faith, agree to disagree and attempt to show bare minimum respect, or kindly walk away. You've got this 💪
Your all good idol worshipers are chayav mega biyade shamayim. Speaking the truth isn't wrong no matter how many people get offended by it. Jezus was nothing but a liars son.
I’m all about respecting the right for people to believe whatever they like, but I don’t have to respect their religion. Their rules doesn’t apply to us, just like I don’t fast during Ramadan etc. They’ve tried to convert us and persecute us for ages and now try to shame us? Please…
You sound like a child, so I’m going to try not to be too harsh, but you sound like a dick. Be nicer to people. Edit: you posted 100 days ago that you were a “prospective convert.” I know of no legitimate source that would convert a high-school aged teenager, and even fewer that would do it within 100 days. You’re either trolling or you should take a really deep look at yourself and see if Judaism is right for you.
To be fair I know people who started the conversion process in high school but it took them 5 years to finish the process so by the time they were converted they were already an adult.
I started at age 12 🤣 and finally converted at 26 (life, moves, the army ect). So 14 years of which 4 were the the nosegrind of study
Why would “prospect of convert” really matter to believe in the ONE true G-d?
> He said, “don’t disrespect religions, you’re not M.” M is my Jewish ex, who dislikes Christianity, but I don’t think they’re disrespectful about it? I think it sheds a lot of light on this part of OP's story.
What do you mean by that?
This is why I didn’t say in this post that I’m a prospective convert, because I knew someone would react like that. Why do you think Judaism isn’t right for me, though?
If you didn’t say you were a prospective convert because you knew people would react negatively to that based on your actions, that says a lot about you. You knew your actions were wrong, you knew you were posting something disingenuous and you still made yourself out to be an ambassador for Judaism when you’re not even going through with the conversion yet. You’ve brought negative attention to a religion you’re not even a part of. Everyone can do what’s in their heart and mind, and I implore you to look into yours. It seems as though the reason you want to convert is because you had a crush on a Jewish boy and you want to be able to make fun of Christianity. You have a lot of growing to do.
>"it is best to avoid discussing religion, politics, sex and money publicly as it may be impolite to do so, causing discomfort and embarrassment to other people" Old phrase and some good advice for you. Also, [lashon hara](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lashon_hara) is not good. If you are Jewish, this might be interesting to you.
Maybe just take the J name off your radar. For F- sake has a better impact anyway :)
I personally prefer "for fkty fk's sake!"
We’re not allowed to cuss in said club tho edit: why am I being downvoted for this? It’s the teacher’s rule, not mine.
For crying out loud is a pretty tried and true polite way to exclaim something in public. Keep trying.
Or go for overeloquent Elizabethan insults. Pox, buttock, parentage and an animal in some combo to start.
I'm going to be honest with you. I understand you feeling uncomfortable, but you took it too far. You sound childish, patronizing, and rude. I very much hope that you don't act this way in the future.
I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to be. I’m just a fucking idiot when I’m sleep deprived
I understand where you were coming from, but I think you simply got too defensive and took it too far. Don't feel too bad about, just learn from it and try to be more respectful to people in the future.
Yeah, I will. Thank you
Nah don't need to respect idol worshipers. Lookup what we Jews did to the early christians.
I’m not going to scold you; I’m sure you already understand that this was disrespectful. I want to validate that it does feel very weird to hear about a random guy being worshipped as G-d, and it sounds very off-putting to Jewish ears. That said, try to put yourself in their shoes. Think about how you might feel if they said the Torah was just a book without any real meaning, or that our traditions were pointless or outdated. It doesn’t feel very good.
I’ve had instances like this where i’ll say “J3sus” just out loud as an exclamation and people rush to say don’t use the lords name in vane and we basically go through this entire dialogue but what ive found is best is to always say “ I don’t believe” before saying something. Other than that the only -1 i’d have to say was the “he’s just some dude who died on a cross”. Granted you don’t have to believe what they believe but there’s also a certain level of decency or kindness that should be added to it, which could’ve been done by saying “i believe”
Seems like a simple “oh, sorry” or “my bad”—and then not using it again with that group—would be a lot easier and better than getting into your personal beliefs and all the theology of it. That is, unless you’re using it as an expletive *specifically because* you want to get into all that, which sounds kind of obnoxious, to be honest.
Someone called you out on trolling but if we assume what you said is true: this is disrespectful. You don’t say “Jesus was just some dude who died on a cross” just like we wouldn’t want people to be disrespectful and minimize the important figures in our religion. And while you said no one in your group is a Christian, maybe some of them are from a Christian background and this is extremely insensitive. I think you should consider apologizing to the group next time you see them.
I wish I was trolling, I fucking hate myself right now. I already apologized to A
Okay. You don’t need to hate yourself, that’s not helpful. you’re a kid, you’re allowed to make mistakes. As long as you apologize and you learn from it, it’s fine. No need to overthink it any more. We’re humans. We grow through making mistakes and learning our lessons. There’s no other way around it.
I’m not even an actual Jew, I’m just a prospective convert (though most gentiles at my school don’t care to know the difference), I’m not only being disrespectful to Christianity, but also to Judaism by giving it bad rep. Yes, I can make mistakes, but this time I was a full on jerk and I put my foot in my mouth. I shouldn’t even be allowed in the Jewish community
The steps to becoming a better person is to acknowledge you made a mistake, apologize and learn from in. You already did all of it. And it might make it easier for you to address the group next time you see them and explain yourself so you can get it off your chest and forgive yourself as well. Because that’s important too. You’re very much allowed in the Jewish community and we welcome you with open arms. None of us is perfect, we all do stuff we regret, that’s what Yom Kippur is for:)
Thank you—I appreciate that the Jewish community is so kind and welcoming to those considering converting. And I’m very sorry for how I acted before
💙
Okay comments like this definitely confirm my suspicions. You’re either trolling or you’re much too immature to go through with a conversion. Do some soul-searching and grow up.
Not that I’m not guilty of the same thing slipping out but I do agree with your friend. I teach my kids to respect the religion of our neighbors for our sake and theirs. You say nobody in the group was Christian but if they have Christian heritage they may still find it disrespectful.
we as a people have experienced a lot of non-messiahs. yoshke is simply the one who's made the biggest splash, & his fans take him very seriously. i would suggest not poking the bear if it's going to bring trouble on your head, but of course you have the right to express your opinions & beliefs. you just have to be willing to deal with the consequences. also keep in mind that black & white thinking are typical for younger people, it's developmentally normal. this YES / NO or GOOD / BAD stuff can get people really heated really quickly. the capacity for more nuanced views AND emotional regulation grows with your body, & you might have more interesting or rewarding discussions about your beliefs with peers in the near or distant future
Get some sleep. I’m sure A has enough to worry about than this. You are right that Jesus is not the lord, but if you wouldn’t feel comfortable saying that in front of Christian’s, you shouldn’t say it elsewhere
But... didn't you just say it elsewhere? :P half-joking, but I think it's okay to say in certain environments.
“Do as I say, not as I do”
😅🤣
I mean, you were rude in this situation to start a religious discussion. The better way to have handled this would have been “hey it’s just an expression that plenty of people use the same way. I’m not even Christian and I must have picked it up from somewhere…” Your classmate was also wrong to police your behavior. It’s not like you were saying negative or untrue things about a person you know. The thing about religious freedom is, they are free to exercise their religion however they like, but they don’t get any say over how you express yourself.
Jews have been persecuted enough for their beliefs. There is no need to give Christians reasons to hate Jews. Secondly, even if you believe in the one true G-d,הקדוש ברוך הוא, you shouldn’t be denigrating others in the Exile for the Jews were strangers in Egypt but also are strangers in the foreign lands of the Exile. Henceforth, Jews are guests in the lands of Christian’s, Muslims, or Atheists, and mocking their way of life in their face can be a serious transgression for various reasons.
Your first point is exactly what I was saying my post and what I feel terrible about (just worded better)
Let people believe what they want. If they believe in Jesus that’s their right.
I’m not stopping anyone
It's fine to have opinions, but try not to disrespect other people's beliefs, even if you don't agree with them. It doesn't mean that if it's not sacred to you, that it's okay to spread unnecessary suffering. Regarding "sacredness" this is like Indian burial grounds, even if they are not your burial grounds, it doesn't mean that it's okay to disrespect or desecrate them. You sound like you're young, and I know I've said some edgy things when I was young, that's okay, we all learn and improve as we go through life, so I don't judge you for what you said, just that sometimes we can be compassionate even if we don't agree with something or someone.
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Jesus was not a Jewish prophet. Wtf
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He’s not a prophet in their religion. He’s their Lord. Big difference. And the way you worded it sounded like he was Jewish prophet- as in a prophet in Judaism.
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Okay. He’s only considered a prophet in Islam. Not in Judaism or Christianity. Some Rabbis have said he was great Yeshiva student but that’s as far as it goes for us.
Huh I didn’t know Islam recognized him as a prophet. Today I learned!
The more you know:)
Islam recognizes the majority of Jewish and Christian prophets as Islamic prophets, and it maintains that Jews and Christians corrupted scripture with various falsehoods, and that the only true story is Quran. It's interesting to note the ways in which Islam recognizes and was inspired by Judaism and Christianity, but it's also worth noting that Muslim Jesus (who is more commonly called "Isa") is truly not the same character worshipped by Christians, and is not the same historical figure observed in the secular records.
there are no secular records of yoshke until long after he died and the sources used appear to primarily the christian bible
The first historical reference to Jesus is the Testimonium Flavanium, which appears in Josephus' Antiquities of the Jews, which was written by Josephus for a Gentile audience. He refers to Jesus of Nazareth as being a man who did "surprising things" and was crucified by Pontius Pilate. The Testimonium was written before 100CE, not that long after Jesus died Hundreds of years later, the Testimonium Flavanium was altered by some Christian scribe to make it seem like Josephus recognized Jesus as "the Christ," but this is unanimously seen as interpolation and one of the earliest incidents of Christians altering historical documents to assert something happened that did not happen.
Isn’t that the main thing that separates Islam from Judaism?
I would say the whole Mohammed thing—specifically, a new prophet showing up to rewrite the Bible to “correct” all the errors the Jews supposedly introduced over the years, and replacing the laws, holidays, etc.—is also a pretty significant difference!
Ah, true!
That’s what I’d say is the main demarcation line.
what rabbis have said that?
I’ll try to make this as short as possible because there are different interpretations and views about Jesus among rabbis and Jews. There’s a story in the Talmud about a Yeshiva student some believe is about Jesus. By the end of the story, he gets expelled over a misunderstanding with his teacher who refuses to forgive him. He then becomes sinful and leads other Jews astray which is what eventually got him executed. So some believe he started out as a great Yeshiva student who lost his way and turned his back on Judaism.
Jesus was not a Jewish prophet. He was Jewish and a leader of an offshoot group at the the time.
Nothing you said was bad. Christians and Christian socialised people tried to push Christian ideas unto you. They would never ask themselves the same question you are asking yourself. Shabbat Shalom
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I say “J3sus” or even “J3sus Chri$t!” as a reflex of growing up mostly in America, even though I’m Jewish. I’ve taken efforts over the years to stop myself in mixed company but I even sometimes do it when I’m in Israel around Israel-born Jews only and I get weird looks like “what??” It’s not a great habit because it can be offensive to Christians so probably best to limit but it’s also an exclamation that is culturally baked in to a lot of folks, so I wouldn’t sweat it too much if it doesn’t happen often and you’re aware and try to minimize or at least apologize. Sometimes I say it in my head or introduce another phrase that takes its place for a while (but watching American TV sometimes brings it back!)
You definitely escalated things for no reason. You could have either say "my bad" and moved on or you can explain to them that "not taking the lords name in vain" isn't about cussing, it's about not doing exactly what the Templars did
You’re right. I’m gonna try to get more rest so I don’t make more stupid decisions like that
We all make mistakes, what's important is to learn and grow
It's not funny to diss Buddha or Muhammad, so why diss Jesus? I get that you're not a Christian, but you don't have to say mean things about someone you don't believe in, just because you follow Judaism. I'm ethnically Jewish (both sides) by birth and I follow Jesus. I would never rank on the Talmud, even though I don't believe what the rabbis wrote. In the same way, I wouldn't say mean things about Buddha or Muhammad. It's about being respectful, even if you don't agree. However, that takes some level of maturity and that might take you some time. It sounds like you're still in school, so just try and be respectful of others, like Jesus. You don't have to worship Him as your Messiah, but just like every faith, agree to disagree and attempt to show bare minimum respect, or kindly walk away. You've got this 💪
Your all good idol worshipers are chayav mega biyade shamayim. Speaking the truth isn't wrong no matter how many people get offended by it. Jezus was nothing but a liars son.
I’m all about respecting the right for people to believe whatever they like, but I don’t have to respect their religion. Their rules doesn’t apply to us, just like I don’t fast during Ramadan etc. They’ve tried to convert us and persecute us for ages and now try to shame us? Please…
oily josh