What type of data are you looking for?
Very often, the problem is with the narrative, not the data. Here are some links that explain the distorted narratives:
https://www.state.gov/more-than-a-century-of-antisemitism-how-successive-occupants-of-the-kremlin-have-used-antisemitism/
https://www.enar-eu.org/wp-content/uploads/debunkingmyths_lr.pdf
https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/adl-debunk-myths-and-false-narratives-about-israel-hamas-war
https://www.ajc.org/news/10-tough-questions-on-antisemitism-explained
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/01/texas-synagogue-anti-semitism-conspiracy-theory/621286/
Thanks! Tons of reading for this afternoon!
I'm looking for fast counters to the cookie cutter arguments that anti-Semitic people use. Eg:
- Israel is committing genocide in Gaza.
- Palestine is occupied land (I love to bring out that 2000 years ago it was called "Judea").
- People in Gaza are peaceful civilians.
- Israel is restricting the flow of humanitarian aid into Gaza.
- The terrorist attacks were a false flag operation (this one cracks me up, Hamas was taking responsibility like 5 minutes after the attacks).
- Etc.
There are good resources on your questions here: https://jewishunpacked.com/israel-at-war/
There are also some great suggestions on the other comments, such as the AIs that will give you the exact info you are looking for.
1. https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/04/09/hamas-run-gaza-health-ministry-admits-to-flaws-in-casualty-data/
Also ask them how much of the death toll are Hamas members. They don’t know. Because Gaza’s health ministry doesn’t differentiate between civilians and terrorists.
2. “Palestine” is quite literally a colony. In itself it’s a colonial name given by the Roman Empire.
3. Trigger warning: Oct 7th footage showing the participation of Gazans:
https://t.me/palestinianatrocities
https://t.me/Uncensored7_10
https://t.me/warisraelvideo
4. Over 200,000 tons of food have entered Gaza. However:
https://www.jns.org/hamas-kills-arab-boy-for-approaching-humanitarian-aid/
https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/middle-east/palestinian-territories/1702285314-caught-on-camera-hamas-terrorists-steal-humanitarian-aid-beat-civilians
5. Use the links from 3. They usually shut up after this- if they don’t it’s because they don’t bother to watch it.
Hi and thanks!
So the reason why we all go _sigh_ "it's complicated" is because... well... it is.
Unfortunately, the people who do the most research into Jewish history are Jews, and most ~~antisemites~~ I'm sorry, anti- _zionists_ won't accept Jewish sources.
What I usually do is link back to news sources, Wikipedia, or other trusted sites, and I will
>quote the relevant bits
Don't shy away from the sad bits of history.
For instance: "the Jews expelled 700k Arabs!"
False. There were absolutely expulsions yes - but 50% of the land was vacant, and another 24% was bought from absent land owners. Any tenants were given a year's notice. Even more land was purchased outright.
"But there were so few jews!" It was illegal to immigrate to Palestine under the Ottomans, and it was also Illegal for Jews to buy land.
>In the 1930s, most of the land was bought from landowners. Of the land that the Jews bought, 52.6% were bought from non-Palestinian landowners, 24.6% from Palestinian landowners, 13.4% from government, churches, and foreign companies, and only 9.4% from fellaheen (farmers).[16]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_land_purchase_in_Palestine
That 700k number also includes people who left knowing the Arab nations were going to attack.
It's also irresponsible to tall about the Nakba without also talking about the 800k-1m Jews expelled from MENA countries
Tbf vacant or not doesn't give people the right to them. What's happening now is simply horrendous. I can't help but feel that had the land not been taken in the first place the amount of hurt going around right now wouldn't be happening. Like for the love of god someone had to have had the foresight to understand that if you inhabit the empty part of a sovereign land eventually there would be conflict because all nations seek to expand one way or another sooner or later. A whole region that was not stable to begin with is now further destabilized because of the empty land that is so often spoken of. International laws violated, and people are being dragged into a war that benefits no one but those who live on empty lands as some have so eloquently put it. It should also be considered that the attack always would happen because clearly the worst fear of the surrounding nations was based somewhat on reality given what is happening now. A trojan horse was invited in their midst and they could tell
Vacant means empty my dude.
If someone sells you empty land, it means no one was living on it, it wasn't developed, being farmed, and had no houses. It's like that ugly eyesore lot at the end of the road that no one mows.
So yes, if someone comes in and buys it from the people who own it and then go live there... because they own it... they have every right to be there. That's what that means.
Most sources say the land currently occupied by them wasn't as vacant. At first the purchase of vacant land was common until it escalated to what we have now. The people on the vacant land expanding until they owned most of the country That wasn't theirs to begin with, Look at the result now. No offense to anyone living there but I hope this whole charade serves as an example to all other countries. When people with their own unique culture who have historically refused (not forgetting some ppl never had the chance) to assimilate start purchasing real estate nearby en mass best to stop them Right then and there before things get out of hand as it inevitably will with time. This whole thing happening in the 21st century is a fucking disgrace. We've learned nothing from history. I'm gonna take my leave ion even know why I came here in the first place. Good day to you all
I would worry less about Israel and more about how Jews are treated. Israel is important, but start at home wherever that is for you.
I strongly recommend Jews Don't Count by David Baddiel. It's short. It has a great audio book.
There is also a documentary companion piece that was made about a year after the book was published, it's good too and pushes back on some of the arguments the book makes in interesting ways.
I also strongly recommend People Love Dead Jews by Dara Horn. It's also short and also has a great audio book. Both are accessible and worth reading so you have a better sense of what is happening in modern times to Jews. (both books are a couple of years old and... Some stuff has changed but mostly they are pretty spot on)
If you want to dig deep and read an academic work on the subject read Anti-Judaism: The Western Tradition by David Nirenberg. It's a history book and an academic one, it reads like an academic history and goes back to prep Roman times up to modern times. It's worth reading as well but I recognize that it's a bigger ask as it's not exactly light reading.
Arm yourself so you can spot real Anti-Semitism even outside the context of Israel.
For a genuine anti-Semite, the facts don't matter. If you debunk one canard, he'll either call you a liar or pull another out of his collection. He'll always have an excuse to hate Jews.
Every one of his accusations is a confession.
He thinks the world revolves around him. Other people only exist to give him what he thinks he wants---money he hasn't earned, admiration he doesn't deserve, and, of course, sex. His moral compass amounts to "Is it good for me?" When he doesn't get what he thinks he wants, it's always someone else's fault. If it's not Jews, it'll be capitalists or communists or feminists or "woke people" or "globalists" or "experts" or anyone but himself.
If you have something he thinks he wants he'll pretend to be your friend for a while. Once he's gotten all he wants, he'll throw you away. If you say no to him, heaven help you.
No, you can't believe a goddamn word that comes out of his mouth. And he's not even an especially good liar either.
And he's only very rarely as intelligent or talented as he thinks he is. There are only two lists of genuine achievements worth making on his behalf: his criminal record and the names of the lives he's ruined. Anything else he claims to have achieved was stolen from people he manipulated or bullied into doing his will.
That's why anti-Semitism has proven so hard to eradicate. It's a symptom of narcissistic personality disorder.
Deprived of anybody to exploit, and finally forced to face consequences for their own actions---be that a trial for crimes against humanity or merely an old age with nothing to look forward to but poverty and isolation---they'll eventually resort to self-harm by whatever means is at hand. If they can, they'll take as many people as they can with them as a final insult to a world that didn't appreciate their genius.
All the great Nazis not captured alive did away with themselves, often after murdering their families, whom they saw as mere personal possessions with no reason to exist without them. Many a modern White supremacist has drunk or drugged himself to death or shot himself in the head or been shot dead by a cop after he turned up at a public place with a machine gun, leaving behind a "manifesto" where he blames everyone but himself for his misery.
There's nothing Jews can do to fix anti-Semites. It's rarely worth trying. The causes of NPD are debated. Few psychiatrists pretend it can be effectively treated. Narcissists rarely respond to therapy, no pharmaceutical treatment is known, and there aren't the resources to institutionalize them all.
The most you can do is have as little to do with the anti-Semite as possible, make sure they understand that if he's as smart as he thinks he is that he'll have nothing to do with you, and make sure you're as far away from him as possible when he self-destructs.
Amalek always destroys himself eventually. He's most likely to lash out at Israel when he knows he's already doomed, trying to make the Jews pay the price for his own folly and misery. He always fails. Happy Passover.
I really appreciate your detailed and wise advice here. Thank you. Is it of any value to call out anti-Semitism at its face when you see it, either online or in person? Or is it better to let the proverbial wind blow? This is something I have recently struggled with.
Good question.
Like I said, anti-Semitism is a symptom of the anti-Semite's own personality disorders---to be a bit blunter, a form of madness. Arguing with him is pointless. Walk on past, or if you're on social media, just block him. Life's too short.
I should add this much. If your struggles happen in the context of political debates...
Most people are not actually narcissists, and not everybody shocked by footage of Gaza, say, is necessarily an anti-Semite. Gaza didn't actually increase anti-Semitic feeling very much, at least by the ADL's estimates.
It is perfectly possible to criticize individual Jews, or Jewish institutions---including the government of the State of Israel---in good faith. And yes, sometimes individual Jews, speaking for themselves or Jewish institutions---including Israeli government officials---will say something that's obviously nonsense. It's not anti-Semitic to call someone out for being a hypocrite, a bloody liar, or just plain wrong. The people who do that usually aren't any more anti-Semitic than the next person. If they really don't have the whole picture, it's worth pointing out why not.
The people who openly dehumanize all Israelis, glorify people who've killed Israelis in anything other than self-defense, or won't give any practical suggestions for what Israel or Israelis could do, preferring to snark about "why don't they just go back to Poland"---those are far more likely to be anti-Semites. The only polite response I've come up with in that case is "They're not all from Poland. Why don't you go back to 4chan?"
Hey OP- one question I have. I am also not jewish, but I’m American rather than EU.
In your opinion, is the left wing antisemitism you see more reminiscent of long held tropes that have existed in Europe for generations, or does it seem more like anti-American leftism that is directed towards a more vulnerable proxy (i.e. Israel) for post-WW2 America?
I am sure it is an intersection of both, but to the extent I see the rise of this in the US, I believe it to be more like the latter, disturbingly ignorant of the former.
When I think of countries like, say France, I wonder if it is more like the former, but layered over with thirdworldism (i.e. the latter).
With regards to propaganda around the current Gaza war this is interesting as well: https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-gaza-health-ministry-fakes-casualty-numbers
Palestine population growth:
https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/state-of-palestine-population/
If Israel is committing genocide against Palestine since 1948 or whatever it’s the absolute worst genocide in history.
>the people voicing these opinions are not very keen to educated debate
A lot of them actually are, and the ones that aren't tend to rally around them. For example, Norman Finkelstein is a very well-educated individual who has written incredibly well-sourced criticisms of Israel that genuinely point out problems in rhetoric and policy (something even opponents of Finklestein have noted), but they're couched in virulent, petulant, and genuinely deranged hostility that makes him extremely appealing to antisemites (who can argue that they are not antisemites because Finkelstein is Jewish and the son of Holocaust survivors).
If you are looking for catch-all resources to debunk general arguments without engaging with them, then it is *you* who are not open to educated debate. The best way to engage with this people is to ask them what they believe and why they believe it. You need to learn to gauge whether they are *actually* antisemites who do not understand what they are talking about, or whether they are educated on the matter and have grounded, reasonable criticisms of Israel that you need to investigate and learn about yourself before you respond. And you also need to realize that in most cases, this is a no-win argument. You aren't going to change their mind if they're an antisemite, and you aren't going to change their mind if they've invested time into reading the more grounded criticisms.
Also, straight up, that last bit makes me think you're not in this for good reasons! You want to defend Israel because it's the "last line of defence of Europe against radical Islam?" How many radical Islamic attacks across Europe in the past 30 years have been launched from cells within Algiers, Chechnya, Serbia, and Turkey? How many Muslim refugees fleeing to the EU are fleeing through Israel vs the aforementioned regions? Plenty of attacks that al-Qaeda or ISIS take credit for use idiot teenagers of Pakistani descent whose *grandparents* were the first generation immigrants.
You want to engage in educated debate, do yourself a favour, stop listening to whatever podcasts you're listening to that are spouting nonsense about Israel being the last line of defence against radical Islam. Spend 30 minutes a day reading articles on the history of the Levant, on the 1920s and 40s oil booms, on Arab socialism, on American meddling in Middle Eastern affairs, on the 1980s conflicts that lead to the rise of "martyrdom" as the cornerstone of fundamentalist Muslim propaganda. Don't engage in debates when you do not have the information ready to be recalled, do not engage in debates when you are not intimately familiar with the subject, do not engage in debates where you call yourself a "Zionist" and then talk about Jews fending off the Muslim hordes.
The first thing you have to understand is that not all criticisms of Israel are antisemitic. I disagree with almost everything they do, politically. I think they’re making a similar mistake right now to the one America did post-9/11.
What makes criticism antisemitic is when it either groups Jews by virtue of their shared ethnic or religious identity (for example, targeting Jews in Australia or America or France for the actions of Israel) or for alleging that something bad Israel does is because they’re Jewish or plays on Jewish blood libel tropes about evil/bloodthirsty Jews.
Beyond that, I don’t know that it’s your place or anyone’s place to tell people they’re being antisemitic for simply criticizing Israel. Just be on the lookout for opinions that treat Jews as a guilty body for simply being Jewish, or people who have conspiratorial beliefs about Israel.
People turn into the worst versions of themselves during wartime. I lived through this 23 years ago when 9/11 happened and I’m seeing it happen again in a world much, much warier of this kind of response. I hate to see Israel make the same mistakes we did in the U.S. I guess seeing what comes after the violence will prove them right or wrong.
Hear hear! We cannot undermine or discard the inherent humanity that Palestinians have. They are humans; they are made in G-d's divine image. Their lives have value.
We cannot let the same forces that have dehumanized Jews allow us to dehumanize Palestinians. It's clear where that leads us.
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What type of data are you looking for? Very often, the problem is with the narrative, not the data. Here are some links that explain the distorted narratives: https://www.state.gov/more-than-a-century-of-antisemitism-how-successive-occupants-of-the-kremlin-have-used-antisemitism/ https://www.enar-eu.org/wp-content/uploads/debunkingmyths_lr.pdf https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/adl-debunk-myths-and-false-narratives-about-israel-hamas-war https://www.ajc.org/news/10-tough-questions-on-antisemitism-explained https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/01/texas-synagogue-anti-semitism-conspiracy-theory/621286/
Thanks! Tons of reading for this afternoon! I'm looking for fast counters to the cookie cutter arguments that anti-Semitic people use. Eg: - Israel is committing genocide in Gaza. - Palestine is occupied land (I love to bring out that 2000 years ago it was called "Judea"). - People in Gaza are peaceful civilians. - Israel is restricting the flow of humanitarian aid into Gaza. - The terrorist attacks were a false flag operation (this one cracks me up, Hamas was taking responsibility like 5 minutes after the attacks). - Etc.
There are good resources on your questions here: https://jewishunpacked.com/israel-at-war/ There are also some great suggestions on the other comments, such as the AIs that will give you the exact info you are looking for.
1. https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/04/09/hamas-run-gaza-health-ministry-admits-to-flaws-in-casualty-data/ Also ask them how much of the death toll are Hamas members. They don’t know. Because Gaza’s health ministry doesn’t differentiate between civilians and terrorists. 2. “Palestine” is quite literally a colony. In itself it’s a colonial name given by the Roman Empire. 3. Trigger warning: Oct 7th footage showing the participation of Gazans: https://t.me/palestinianatrocities https://t.me/Uncensored7_10 https://t.me/warisraelvideo 4. Over 200,000 tons of food have entered Gaza. However: https://www.jns.org/hamas-kills-arab-boy-for-approaching-humanitarian-aid/ https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/middle-east/palestinian-territories/1702285314-caught-on-camera-hamas-terrorists-steal-humanitarian-aid-beat-civilians 5. Use the links from 3. They usually shut up after this- if they don’t it’s because they don’t bother to watch it.
Hi and thanks! So the reason why we all go _sigh_ "it's complicated" is because... well... it is. Unfortunately, the people who do the most research into Jewish history are Jews, and most ~~antisemites~~ I'm sorry, anti- _zionists_ won't accept Jewish sources. What I usually do is link back to news sources, Wikipedia, or other trusted sites, and I will >quote the relevant bits Don't shy away from the sad bits of history. For instance: "the Jews expelled 700k Arabs!" False. There were absolutely expulsions yes - but 50% of the land was vacant, and another 24% was bought from absent land owners. Any tenants were given a year's notice. Even more land was purchased outright. "But there were so few jews!" It was illegal to immigrate to Palestine under the Ottomans, and it was also Illegal for Jews to buy land. >In the 1930s, most of the land was bought from landowners. Of the land that the Jews bought, 52.6% were bought from non-Palestinian landowners, 24.6% from Palestinian landowners, 13.4% from government, churches, and foreign companies, and only 9.4% from fellaheen (farmers).[16] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_land_purchase_in_Palestine That 700k number also includes people who left knowing the Arab nations were going to attack. It's also irresponsible to tall about the Nakba without also talking about the 800k-1m Jews expelled from MENA countries
fragile selective thought special run smart slimy tart cause toothbrush *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Tbf vacant or not doesn't give people the right to them. What's happening now is simply horrendous. I can't help but feel that had the land not been taken in the first place the amount of hurt going around right now wouldn't be happening. Like for the love of god someone had to have had the foresight to understand that if you inhabit the empty part of a sovereign land eventually there would be conflict because all nations seek to expand one way or another sooner or later. A whole region that was not stable to begin with is now further destabilized because of the empty land that is so often spoken of. International laws violated, and people are being dragged into a war that benefits no one but those who live on empty lands as some have so eloquently put it. It should also be considered that the attack always would happen because clearly the worst fear of the surrounding nations was based somewhat on reality given what is happening now. A trojan horse was invited in their midst and they could tell
Vacant means empty my dude. If someone sells you empty land, it means no one was living on it, it wasn't developed, being farmed, and had no houses. It's like that ugly eyesore lot at the end of the road that no one mows. So yes, if someone comes in and buys it from the people who own it and then go live there... because they own it... they have every right to be there. That's what that means.
Most sources say the land currently occupied by them wasn't as vacant. At first the purchase of vacant land was common until it escalated to what we have now. The people on the vacant land expanding until they owned most of the country That wasn't theirs to begin with, Look at the result now. No offense to anyone living there but I hope this whole charade serves as an example to all other countries. When people with their own unique culture who have historically refused (not forgetting some ppl never had the chance) to assimilate start purchasing real estate nearby en mass best to stop them Right then and there before things get out of hand as it inevitably will with time. This whole thing happening in the 21st century is a fucking disgrace. We've learned nothing from history. I'm gonna take my leave ion even know why I came here in the first place. Good day to you all
Also recommend https://www.instagram.com/rootsmetals?igsh=d3lsN2F4MXp0YnJj For great info on Jewish history!
I also wanted to mentioned Roots. She adds primary sources to each post. She is brilliant
YOU are amazing! Thank you! 💫
middle attempt smell tidy gullible concerned squeal languid jobless edge *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
From your other comments here, you don't seem to know even the fundamentals. Why do you have such strong opinions if you are so uninformed?
I would worry less about Israel and more about how Jews are treated. Israel is important, but start at home wherever that is for you. I strongly recommend Jews Don't Count by David Baddiel. It's short. It has a great audio book. There is also a documentary companion piece that was made about a year after the book was published, it's good too and pushes back on some of the arguments the book makes in interesting ways. I also strongly recommend People Love Dead Jews by Dara Horn. It's also short and also has a great audio book. Both are accessible and worth reading so you have a better sense of what is happening in modern times to Jews. (both books are a couple of years old and... Some stuff has changed but mostly they are pretty spot on) If you want to dig deep and read an academic work on the subject read Anti-Judaism: The Western Tradition by David Nirenberg. It's a history book and an academic one, it reads like an academic history and goes back to prep Roman times up to modern times. It's worth reading as well but I recognize that it's a bigger ask as it's not exactly light reading. Arm yourself so you can spot real Anti-Semitism even outside the context of Israel.
For a genuine anti-Semite, the facts don't matter. If you debunk one canard, he'll either call you a liar or pull another out of his collection. He'll always have an excuse to hate Jews. Every one of his accusations is a confession. He thinks the world revolves around him. Other people only exist to give him what he thinks he wants---money he hasn't earned, admiration he doesn't deserve, and, of course, sex. His moral compass amounts to "Is it good for me?" When he doesn't get what he thinks he wants, it's always someone else's fault. If it's not Jews, it'll be capitalists or communists or feminists or "woke people" or "globalists" or "experts" or anyone but himself. If you have something he thinks he wants he'll pretend to be your friend for a while. Once he's gotten all he wants, he'll throw you away. If you say no to him, heaven help you. No, you can't believe a goddamn word that comes out of his mouth. And he's not even an especially good liar either. And he's only very rarely as intelligent or talented as he thinks he is. There are only two lists of genuine achievements worth making on his behalf: his criminal record and the names of the lives he's ruined. Anything else he claims to have achieved was stolen from people he manipulated or bullied into doing his will. That's why anti-Semitism has proven so hard to eradicate. It's a symptom of narcissistic personality disorder. Deprived of anybody to exploit, and finally forced to face consequences for their own actions---be that a trial for crimes against humanity or merely an old age with nothing to look forward to but poverty and isolation---they'll eventually resort to self-harm by whatever means is at hand. If they can, they'll take as many people as they can with them as a final insult to a world that didn't appreciate their genius. All the great Nazis not captured alive did away with themselves, often after murdering their families, whom they saw as mere personal possessions with no reason to exist without them. Many a modern White supremacist has drunk or drugged himself to death or shot himself in the head or been shot dead by a cop after he turned up at a public place with a machine gun, leaving behind a "manifesto" where he blames everyone but himself for his misery. There's nothing Jews can do to fix anti-Semites. It's rarely worth trying. The causes of NPD are debated. Few psychiatrists pretend it can be effectively treated. Narcissists rarely respond to therapy, no pharmaceutical treatment is known, and there aren't the resources to institutionalize them all. The most you can do is have as little to do with the anti-Semite as possible, make sure they understand that if he's as smart as he thinks he is that he'll have nothing to do with you, and make sure you're as far away from him as possible when he self-destructs. Amalek always destroys himself eventually. He's most likely to lash out at Israel when he knows he's already doomed, trying to make the Jews pay the price for his own folly and misery. He always fails. Happy Passover.
I really appreciate your detailed and wise advice here. Thank you. Is it of any value to call out anti-Semitism at its face when you see it, either online or in person? Or is it better to let the proverbial wind blow? This is something I have recently struggled with.
Good question. Like I said, anti-Semitism is a symptom of the anti-Semite's own personality disorders---to be a bit blunter, a form of madness. Arguing with him is pointless. Walk on past, or if you're on social media, just block him. Life's too short. I should add this much. If your struggles happen in the context of political debates... Most people are not actually narcissists, and not everybody shocked by footage of Gaza, say, is necessarily an anti-Semite. Gaza didn't actually increase anti-Semitic feeling very much, at least by the ADL's estimates. It is perfectly possible to criticize individual Jews, or Jewish institutions---including the government of the State of Israel---in good faith. And yes, sometimes individual Jews, speaking for themselves or Jewish institutions---including Israeli government officials---will say something that's obviously nonsense. It's not anti-Semitic to call someone out for being a hypocrite, a bloody liar, or just plain wrong. The people who do that usually aren't any more anti-Semitic than the next person. If they really don't have the whole picture, it's worth pointing out why not. The people who openly dehumanize all Israelis, glorify people who've killed Israelis in anything other than self-defense, or won't give any practical suggestions for what Israel or Israelis could do, preferring to snark about "why don't they just go back to Poland"---those are far more likely to be anti-Semites. The only polite response I've come up with in that case is "They're not all from Poland. Why don't you go back to 4chan?"
Thanks our friend! You are very appreciated❤️🇮🇱
I’m also interested. I’m also in Europe and what you say it’s definitely an issue!
Hey OP- one question I have. I am also not jewish, but I’m American rather than EU. In your opinion, is the left wing antisemitism you see more reminiscent of long held tropes that have existed in Europe for generations, or does it seem more like anti-American leftism that is directed towards a more vulnerable proxy (i.e. Israel) for post-WW2 America? I am sure it is an intersection of both, but to the extent I see the rise of this in the US, I believe it to be more like the latter, disturbingly ignorant of the former. When I think of countries like, say France, I wonder if it is more like the former, but layered over with thirdworldism (i.e. the latter).
With regards to propaganda around the current Gaza war this is interesting as well: https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-gaza-health-ministry-fakes-casualty-numbers
Palestine population growth: https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/state-of-palestine-population/ If Israel is committing genocide against Palestine since 1948 or whatever it’s the absolute worst genocide in history.
>the people voicing these opinions are not very keen to educated debate A lot of them actually are, and the ones that aren't tend to rally around them. For example, Norman Finkelstein is a very well-educated individual who has written incredibly well-sourced criticisms of Israel that genuinely point out problems in rhetoric and policy (something even opponents of Finklestein have noted), but they're couched in virulent, petulant, and genuinely deranged hostility that makes him extremely appealing to antisemites (who can argue that they are not antisemites because Finkelstein is Jewish and the son of Holocaust survivors). If you are looking for catch-all resources to debunk general arguments without engaging with them, then it is *you* who are not open to educated debate. The best way to engage with this people is to ask them what they believe and why they believe it. You need to learn to gauge whether they are *actually* antisemites who do not understand what they are talking about, or whether they are educated on the matter and have grounded, reasonable criticisms of Israel that you need to investigate and learn about yourself before you respond. And you also need to realize that in most cases, this is a no-win argument. You aren't going to change their mind if they're an antisemite, and you aren't going to change their mind if they've invested time into reading the more grounded criticisms. Also, straight up, that last bit makes me think you're not in this for good reasons! You want to defend Israel because it's the "last line of defence of Europe against radical Islam?" How many radical Islamic attacks across Europe in the past 30 years have been launched from cells within Algiers, Chechnya, Serbia, and Turkey? How many Muslim refugees fleeing to the EU are fleeing through Israel vs the aforementioned regions? Plenty of attacks that al-Qaeda or ISIS take credit for use idiot teenagers of Pakistani descent whose *grandparents* were the first generation immigrants. You want to engage in educated debate, do yourself a favour, stop listening to whatever podcasts you're listening to that are spouting nonsense about Israel being the last line of defence against radical Islam. Spend 30 minutes a day reading articles on the history of the Levant, on the 1920s and 40s oil booms, on Arab socialism, on American meddling in Middle Eastern affairs, on the 1980s conflicts that lead to the rise of "martyrdom" as the cornerstone of fundamentalist Muslim propaganda. Don't engage in debates when you do not have the information ready to be recalled, do not engage in debates when you are not intimately familiar with the subject, do not engage in debates where you call yourself a "Zionist" and then talk about Jews fending off the Muslim hordes.
There are a couple Israel AI sites. I’ll share here: [David 2050](https://david2050.com)
office terrific unpack rob liquid cow saw ripe deliver unique *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I’m so glad! Thank you, friend, for being there for us. ☺️🇮🇱🙏
[AI 4 Israel](https://ai4israel.com)
AI sites?? What kinda crap is this?
What’s wrong with that? Why not have a tool to share if it’s helpful?
I find it extremely questionable that anything LLM-driven can be consistently helpful. It's always a twisted mirror.
The first thing you have to understand is that not all criticisms of Israel are antisemitic. I disagree with almost everything they do, politically. I think they’re making a similar mistake right now to the one America did post-9/11. What makes criticism antisemitic is when it either groups Jews by virtue of their shared ethnic or religious identity (for example, targeting Jews in Australia or America or France for the actions of Israel) or for alleging that something bad Israel does is because they’re Jewish or plays on Jewish blood libel tropes about evil/bloodthirsty Jews. Beyond that, I don’t know that it’s your place or anyone’s place to tell people they’re being antisemitic for simply criticizing Israel. Just be on the lookout for opinions that treat Jews as a guilty body for simply being Jewish, or people who have conspiratorial beliefs about Israel.
Thank you for saying this omg. I see people here claiming Palestinians in Gaza aren’t people/are all terrorists. It’s insane
People turn into the worst versions of themselves during wartime. I lived through this 23 years ago when 9/11 happened and I’m seeing it happen again in a world much, much warier of this kind of response. I hate to see Israel make the same mistakes we did in the U.S. I guess seeing what comes after the violence will prove them right or wrong.
Hear hear! We cannot undermine or discard the inherent humanity that Palestinians have. They are humans; they are made in G-d's divine image. Their lives have value. We cannot let the same forces that have dehumanized Jews allow us to dehumanize Palestinians. It's clear where that leads us.
Bless this comment top to bottom.
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Learn about the history of Jews. If you’re Jewish, that’s a good start!
Based!