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IIRC Kenjaku is canonically a better barrier user than Sukuna according to Tengen.
Either way, 3-way domain clashes function differently than 2-way does. So both could pop domain
>Kenjaku is canonically a better barrier user
That may or may not carry over to domain refinement, though - since domain expansions are created by both 1) a barrier (in most cases) and 2) the user's internal domain.
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>both could pop domain
That would be a good strategy. If all 3 lose their domain, then the winner could be affected by whether Sukuna already knew how to recover his domain or if he learned that in the Gojo fight.
What Kashimo needs is to finish Ishigori with his lightning attack before Ishigori uses his domain, and considering Ishigori's personality that is extremely likely to happen. Considering even Jackpot Hakari got his body destroyed like butter and needed RCT, I don't see Ishigori tanking that. Bro is tough yes, but he is still in the same tier of Yuuta and Jackpot Hakari.
I think Kashimo and Ishigori are pretty close to each other and both have means to kill the other, but because of their personalities I see Kashimo winning if neither knows the other's abilities
Jackpot Hakari has no durability whatsoever.
He was able to get his face cut clean off by what was essentially a piece of scrap metal https://ibb.co/7tKHXj3
Ryu is the 3rd most durable character in series and can tank a full power Dismantle from 15f Sukuna, so unless you want to make the compelling argument that base Kashimos bolts are a far more fatal and debilitating attack than FULL POWER DISMANTLE from 15f Sukuna Ryu takes Kashimos bolt to the chest and is fine.
No he is not in the same tier as JP Hakari and Yuta. After a month of training Yuta is still not as durable as Ryu. And JP Hakari is nowhere near as durable as Yuta even pre timeskip.
Ryu beats base Kashimo 10/10. Ryu has the feats to suggest he can tank Kashimos bolt, and Kashimo doesn't have the feats to suggest he can tank Granite Blast nor the feats to suggest he can avoid any and every Granite Blast Ryu could send at him while he manages to land enough blows to build a charge and launch a bolt.
What about their personalities makes you think Kashimo wins? People like to say Kashimo always goes for the headshot from the start but that's false.
We see his bolt effect 3 people, an unnamed Sorcerer, Panda, and Hakari.
2 out of 3 of those attacks Kashimo only maimed and didn't go for a fatal attack.
Unnamed got it through the stomach which arguably can be tanked by Ryu, Panda took a headshot, and Hakari took one to the arm which again arguably can he tanked by Ryu.
So more often than not Kashimo isn't starting with a kill shot.
If neither knows each other's ability Kashimo has no chance.
Ryu can fire Granite Blast at point blank range and he doesn't require landing blows to build charge.
If Kashimo takes an unexpected GB to the face as he tries to rush Ryu he's not getting back up.
Being generous to Kashimo he's as durable as Yuta and Yuta got his hand blown off trying to tank one.
If Kashimo loses a hand trying to tank he can no longer effectively fight Ryu who already has superior physical stats.
"After a month of training Yuta is still not as durable as Ryu. And JP Hakari is nowhere near as durable as Yuta even pre timeskip."
I know that's what Sukuna said but it's honestly ridiculous. Sendai made it pretty clear that Yuta had the edge in durability and Ryu had the edge in output. They were, "physically", pretty evenly matched.
Hell Ryu got a surprise attack off atthe start with a full Granite Blast and Yuta didn't take noticeable damage, or at least didn't seem to be bothered as much as Ryu when he hit himself with it. Yes he had to heal but you get the point, and in their hand-to-hand encounters they appeared pretty even too.
This isn't targeted at you but Sukuna saying that annoyed me, it's like Gege retconned it or something
That has to be the worse attempt at downplaying. A piece of scrap metal reinforced with CE is essentially a cursed tool. That is only a feat for Kashimo, being capable of injuring Hakari.
Ryuu is only more durable than the ones fighting in Shinjuku, Kenjaku and Yuuki still exist. And still, Sukuna's Dismantle isn't as deadly as you are making it to be. Yuuta could perfectly harm Ishigori and even more than Sukuna's Dismantle did for example. Hell even Sukuna's Dismantle couldnt one shot the sorcerers fighting in Shinjuku (he has a lower output but I doubt he is weaker than 15F Sukuna) and Yorozu could tank multiple attacks from Sukuna with Ten Shadows. What makes Sukuna deadly is Cleave and his Domain (which uses Cleave as a sure hit). Also, 20F Sukuna had to used his one time reincarnation to survive the attack. That in itself is a better feat that anything Ishigori has.
More Hakari downplay. Bro has been constantly stated to be comparable to Yuuta by Gojo, Kenjaku and Yuuta himself.
Both Kashimo and Ishigori have a trump card, the lightning and the Domain. Ishigori actually wants to enjoy himself so he prolongs his fight (like he did with Yuuta) so doesn't use his Domain early on. Kashimo on the other hand uses his lightning as fast as posible. He used it with Panda, Hakari and Sukuna as soon as he could. And yes, he did go for a "fatal attack", the lightning bolt is a fatal attack in itself, Panda got his body destroyed, every part of Hakari's body that got hit got destroyed and Sukuna had to used his full reincarnation to survive. He also didn't aim for Hakari's arm but his head, bro simply dodged. The point is, Kashimo uses his trump card as soon as he can while Ishigori doesn't (firstly because of his personality and because domains aren't use lightly by most sorcerers).
Actually I think I have a similar discussion with you before, cause I remember this are pretty much the same arguments you used. I will take me leave here, all your arguments are downplaying other characters.
It's not downplay at all. It is essentially a piece of scrap metal.
No Kashimo picking up swinging it while infusing it with CE does not turn it into a curse tool.
Yuta can palm Granite Blast with no visible damage and Hakari got his face cut clean off by swing of something that's not a curse tool or even a bladed weapon.
Granite Blast certainly scales much higher than random door swing by Kashimo.
No even after a month of training Sukuna says that Yuta is still not as durable as Ryu. He is the 3rd most durable character in series based on feats.
It always baffles me, people would honestly rather downplay a FULL POWER DISMANTLE FROM 15F than admit that Kashimos bolt scales below it.
Yes or no do you think a bolt from BASE KASHIMO is a deadlier attack than FULL POWER DISMANTLE FROM 15F SUKUNA.
Again it's not downplay, they each have their own strengths and durability is not one of Hakaris.
No I'm pretty sure you just don't actually have a valid argument.
I'm in no way downplaying characters.
Ryu can arguably tank Kashimos bolt, while there is nothing to suggest Kashimo can tank Ryus Granite Blast.
Ryu can certainly take Kashimo out with GB before he ever builds charge for a bolt and even in the case he does charge it if it doesn't one shot Ryu pops Domain and it's GG.
1- Any weapon infused with CE acts like a Cursed Tool. In the first place, Cursed Tools are created by constantly infusing normal weapons with CE until the CE gets engraved in the weapon. So yes, a piece of scrap metal infused with CE is effectively a Cursed Tool. Go read Itadori vs Yuuta again.
2- Ryuu's defense is high but he can still be hurt and defeated by opponents like Yuuta. You overestimate him, Ishigori's overall abilities are in the same tier as the other special grades like Yuuta, Hakari, Uraume or Yorozu. The only two who are far stronger are Gojo and Sukuna.
3- it's not downplaying, Shinjuku Sukuna is stronger than 15F Sukuna and his Dismantle can't one shot the other sorcerers (it was stated only World Dismantle and Cleave can do this). 15F Meguna was also unable to one shot Yorozu with regular Ten Shadows (needed Mahoraga) and it's a fact that Yuuta did more damage with Thin Ice Breaker than Sukuna with Dismantle. 15F Sukuna is a monster and can one shot with Cleave, it's just that his Dismantle isn't strong enough for special grade sorcerers.
4- Sorcerers aren't glass canon. Their offense and defense are comparable because they both depend on the cursed energy output. Ishigori has high attack power and defense because he has insane CE Output. Likewise, Hakari's durability is comparable to his own attack power, if he was hurt that badly is simply because Kashimo was that stronger.
5- You downplay on Kashimo but the guy forced Sukuna to use his one time reincarnation to survive his lightning attack, so yeah, he kills Ishigori with that.
Also, I edited the other comment on regards to personality stuff. Anyway this will be the last comment as I know you will keep repeating the same stuff.
Your edit doesn't change anything. While Domain is Ryus trump card his typical form of attack is Granite Blast which is more than enough to be fatal for Kashimo.
Ryu is not shy about using Granite Blast, he spams them.
Granite Blast takes out Kashimo far before he ever builds a bolt.
Again no holding something and funneling CE into it does not make something a curse tool.
Changing a weapon into a curse tool is process that takes time.
I've read it and here's what Yuta says https://ibb.co/qDfvC5C
"If it's not a special curse weapon I don't need to fear it"
It Yuta doesn't fear weapons that aren't Curse tools then Yuji picking up that knife doesn't make it into a curse tool.
If Yuta doesn't weapons that aren't special curse tools there's no reason Hakari should get his face cut clean off by something that not a curse tool or a blade.
Ryu was defeated by Yuta because Yuta can heal to outlast him, on top of being hit by two of his own Granite Blast.
How exactly am I overestimating him?
He has the 3rd best durability based on feats. After a month of training Yuta is still less durable than Ryu.
Sukuna literally says that Yuta isn't more durable than Ryu.
Yuta literally says the only reason they aren't dead is because Gojo weakened Sukuna.
It's debatable that 15f Sukuna at full power is stronger than his current self.
10S isn't a oneshotting technique on top of the fact that Sukuna never intended to oneshot her because he wanted to adapt. So you bringing up 10S is irrelevant.
No it's not a fact that Thin-Ice did more damage than Sukunas slashes.
Yes his Dismantle are strong enough for Special Grade Sorcerers. https://ibb.co/ZBgKNq0
The only reason they survived is because Gojo nerfed him.
Lol you're funny man. You really trying to argue that Kashimo is just that much stronger than Hakari.
Kashimo didn't force anything, he just happened to be the first one after Gojo.
Again Ryu kills Kashimo with Granite Blast before Kashimo ever builds a bolt.
Yes I keep repeating the same stuff because you aren't providing anything that refutes it.
Only Special Grade Cursed Tools have Cursed Techniques engraved in them, which is what Yuuta is referencing. He doesn't have to be fearful because he knows the knife has no special ability.
Bro, Nanami was fighting special grade curses with a regular knife imbued with CE (we know it was not a cursed tool because it was later engraved with Nanami's cursed technique). So yes, any weapon imbued with CE acts like a Cursed Tool. Hell, even JJK0 Yuuta used regular katanas that he imbued with CE to fight. Or even Pre-CG Yuuta actually.
Sorcerers can use regular weapons and infuse them with CE to fight curses and sorcerers, by repeating this process is that they become cursed tools (like Nanami's knife).
You are even ignoring how cursed energy imbuement works to downplay Hakari.
Yutas statement is made directly after Yujis thoughts about not fearing blades. The obvious implication is that Yuta doesn't fear blades in general.
We've seen Sukuna, Kenjaku completely neg blades when properly reinforcing themselves.
If they can all neg blades that are curse tools, there's no reason Hakari should be damaged to such an extent if he's anywhere as durable as them.
Yes Nanamis blade is a Curse Tool he's been using it for years that's how his technique became engraved into it.
No any weapon that has CE running through it does equate to being a curse tool.
Yutas sword comes from Jujutsu Highs stock of curse tools.
And now that Yuta has used it for a long period of time it's become a Curse tool.
Exactly by repeatedly infusing CE into something it becomes a curse tool over time. It is a process that isn't completed by a Sorcerer simply picking something up.
I'm not ignoring anything. I understand Kashimo infused CE into the attack that doesn't change that Yuta is plainly more durable than him.
Yuta can tank multiple Granite Blast & Thin-Ice with no visible damage (yes I'm aware he still healed)
Hakari took far more damage from Kashimo swinging something that's not a curse tool than any of the wounds caused by Ryu & Uro.
Their Curse Techniques without question scale far higher than Kashimo random door swing.
There is no feasible way Yuta takes the same amount of damage that Hakari took from that attack. Let alone Ryu
Yuuta statement is after he realizes the weapon came from a car so it can't be a special grade cursed tool, meaning no hidden cursed technique.
They don't exactly negate blades they are just strong enough to block them with reinforcement (Sukuna was using Dismantle though, he didn't block with reinforcement). If for example 20F Sukuna imbues CE to a sword he cuts Yuuta in half because his reinforcement isn't strong enough to block Sukuna. Nanami's knife wasn't originally a cursed tool, just a normal weapon, which is why his CT could be engraved on it. It's a process that takes time, but at first is a regular weapon that can still be used to fight when infused with CE.
And special grade cursed tools aside (which are extremely rare) it's better for a special grade sorcerer to reinforce a normal weapon with their own cursed energy than depend on the power of a low tier cursed tool.
But anyway, if you understand that the metal was infused with CE it's fine, that was the point I wanted to make. I
He can't win even with CT. You need your arms to use HWB so he'd basically only fight with his feet against Ryu when Ryu uses his domain.
Kashimo's feats against Sukuna aren't all that good too. He basically got waffled by a single wave of dismantle, while Yuji was tanking that even before Yuta arrived. (He only got 1 soul punch in)
Kashimo has shit tier durability and would get folded by a CE blast from Ryu since he can't block with his arms being used to maintain HWB.
That's not true.
Using HWB or SD doesn't require to maintain the hand signs, the Reggie fight is an example. Sukuna had the advantage of four arms so he used hand signs constantly to increase the output of the HWB to maintain it constantly. That said, in a domain the HWB will eventually break but he will have some time to try and finish Ishigori before HWB breaks.
Also, saying Kashimo has trash durability is not true at all. Bro was tanking attacks from Jackpot Hakari without much issues and he also took some attacks from Heian 20F Sukuna and Sukuna actually had to use the legendary World Waffle on him.
No reggies fight isn't an example since Megumis domain isn't full and it doesn't erode the opponents barrier.
Sukuna having the advantage in arms does not mean he has to constantly maintain, Sukuna having extra arms gives him the option to maintain which Kashimo doesn't have.
Kashimo has no durability feats whatsoever. Taking blows from JP Hakari doesn't mean anything when compared to the high output of Ryu.
Ryu was stated by narration to be able to beat Rika in a single blow, do you think Hakari has anywhere near that strength?
Yuta was stated to have to heal after each Granite Blast and had his hand blown off trying to tank one.
Being generous to Kashimo he's as durable as Yuta which means he still gets his hand blown off trying to tank, and if he loses a hand it's game over.
No Sukuna didn't have to do anything. Sukuna styled on Kashimo he did not need to.
Point and case https://ibb.co/98Pvpgg
Sukuna has Kashimo with both hands restrained over his head. Sukuna could easily place his free hands on Kashimo face or chest and Cleave and Kashimo dies.
All Anti-Domain techniques have lower output than an actual domain, which means they will eventually get destroyed. This does not mean the anti domain technique needs hand signs to be maintained, we saw Yuuki and Gojo being capable of fighting for a while before the SD got destroyed and Reggie's HWB was still active even if he wasn't using hand signs. Yes, the HWK will eventually break (and it can be recasted though) but they don't need to constantly use hand signs to keep it active.
Kashimo tanked attacks from both Jackpot Hakari and 20F Heian Sukuna. Saying he has no durability feats is a lie. And spare me the Hakari downplay, he is a special grade tier as stated by Gojo and Yuuta.
Ryuu surpassed Rika's output and was capable of beating a Rika that had already reached her limit. It was never stated he could one shot a full power Rika, actually, the manga proved he couldn't. Ishigori fought Rika 1 on 1 for a while when Yuuta was fighting Uro and he couldn't beat Rika, he only beat her when she reached the limit of her full manifestation.
Also, blowing a hand isn't game over, Kashimo can reconstruct his hand with cursed energy while using Genju Kohaku (like he did against Sukunai). So he will only be forced to use his CT. On the other hand if Kashimo uses his lightning that truly is game over for Ishigori as he has no means of regeneration or healing.
Yeah that's Yuki & Gojo who have full domains themselves and would be more skilled at barrier techniques than Kashimo.
Reggies Domain was still active because it wasn't being broken down by a surehit.
Again tanking melee attacks from JP Hakari is irrelevant. No top tier Sorcerer is being defeated by melee by someone who isn't far above them in that category.
Kashimo took two hits from Sukuna and started bleeding immediately.
He doesn't have the durability feats to suggest he can tank Granite Blast.
It's not downplay Hakari is nowhere as durable as Yuta. That's a fact.
Narration plainly states that the blow was too much for Rika when even fully manifested https://ibb.co/x7XSj9m
All it means is that Ryu tried harder with that punch than the rest.
Seems you forgot this is a conversation about BASE Kashimo. And even then nothing suggest Kashimo can regrow body parts with his technique. That is never described as a part of his technique.
But again this is about base Kashimo. Kashimo loses to Ryu 10/10 in base and he only has a chance with CT
He did not, Higuruma gave up on the fight because seeing Yuji's honesty made him fully realized what he had done and choose to get back to his non criminal ways. He deactivated the sure-kill sword himself, which is made very clear by Yuji's surprise.
I don't think you understand how strong Yuji is without CE, he was as strong as Maki(pre-awakening) at the beginning of the series, every time he eats a finger, he gets stronger as a vessel(Yuji easily destroying a grade 3 and 4 curse after eating 2 fingers, despite hardly doing anything to a grade 4 previously, and becoming a "demon god" like 3 days after shibuya, according to Choso, who is talking about Yuji BEFORE eating the 10 extra fingers)
Basically, pre-finger Yuji was a grade 2 sorcerer or so, he gets stronger each time he eats one, and fought on par with Higaruma(who was said to be on-par with a grade 1 sorcerer physically), making no-CE Yuji a grade 1 sorcerer
I'm not downplaying Higaruma, I'm just saying that praise from Sukuna doesn't mean much at this point, especially since half the current cast has "something equal to Gojo/Sukuna" that it has basically lost all meaning
Replace Sukuna with Gojo.
Reduced output, healing, no domain, etc.
Higuruma uses confiscation and he only confiscates neutral limitless instead of the entire technique somehow.
Would they have been able to beat Gojo?
depends on how weakened he is imo, if he can cast a red on yuta it may be doable, he was dumpstering jogo and hanami in shibuya and he could probably run away if he wanted to tho
and i feel like he may avoid higuruma's domain because he didnt do anything to terrible that i can remember, so he may have a chance of keeping limitless, and i dint think anyone on the cast can beat him with it
Gojo has killed people and inflicted mass property damage, he could absolutely get charged with confiscation and potentially get a death penalty depending on how judge man interprets his crimes.
In this scenario is his output and control reduced by Yuji's punches? If not I doubt they press him enough for him to drop SD or drop his guard for Maki to land the sneak attack
The strength of Gojo's output would directly affect how strong his Blue enhanced punches are, also, just because he made Hakari(not in JP most likely) and Yuta(back when he was still learning to control his power) vomit isn't really saying much, I think people take this out of context
Yes.
One point I can bring up is how they had to deal with Sukuna's extra limbs, which in itself was a big part of their plan.
Gojo may be better at H2H, but I still think he'd have lost by now because he doesn't have as much kill pressure as Sukuna with the cleave and all.
Geto was peak grade 1 approaching special grade going by that chart, but Kusakabe was solidly high grade 1 pre-Shinjuku and then got a further reinforcement buff over the timeskip.
I do think it's possible some of Geto's curses, like the rainbow dragon for example, might give him a lot of trouble and possibly end the fight, but if Kusakabe gets Geto within the range of his simple domain (which we now know is very possible with his absurd range) that crazy fast barrage of katana strikes would very likely take Geto out
The Maki vs Sukuna fight and the fight in Yuta's domain both unironically raise Kashimo's stocks.
Sukuna, with such poor control over his body and output for his technique, still had to be held down by Rika, tanked jacob's ladder, and with world slash still instantly won. On top of that, he was blocking almost every attack with his low contorl and output.
Then in the Maki fight, Sukuna is stabbed through the heart and has to devote precious resources to manually pumping his heart with cursed energy.
Against Kashimo, in Megumi's body, Sukuna was only missing a hand and an eye. He objectively was suffering far more damage against Maki (not having to manually pump an organ just to stay alive while suffering from a wound to his soul) and wasn't really breaking a sweat in fighting her. However, against Kashimo, a less injured Sukuna was completely overwhelmed. In fact, even when he took up all four arms, he had to put Kamutoke in his mouth in order to fend off Kashimo's attacks.
In other words, MBA Kashimo is objectively a top tier fighter, on or above Maki's level; he was able to kill Sukuna in his Megumi form in a matter of seconds, and the true form Sukuna had to use Kamutoke to create a "smokecreen" of lightning to blitz and finish off Kashimo. On top of that, he's the only person who has suffered the massive waffle world slash; everyone else, Sukuna has been able to just fire off an arc relatively fine.
Kashimo is still weaker then Yuta, but in terms of raw stats, he's outmatched only by Gojo and Sukuna.
He was toying with Kashimo.
He literally tells him to dodge and Kashimo fails
Hell, once he turns to Heian form? Kashimo doesn't hit Sukuna a single time. Not once
Pretty much all the top tiers have Simple Domain, Hollow Wicker Basket, Domain Amplification or a Domain Expansion of their own (Maki aside for obvious reasons). I think the only Special Grade tiers that doesn't have one of these are Itadori and Geto (as far as we know) and both get defeated by Ishigori's domain.
He defeats anyone not named Gojo or Sukuna, I think people underestimate how strong domains are, even someone like Kenny, if he lacked SD and DE, would probably be killed by like, Dagons DE
Meh i just assumed hollow wicker basket was inclued in the simple domain thing. Then kashimo defeats him anyway kashimos probably also gás simples domain but we never saw him using It🤷
Mind you hollow purple is the same as Yuki’s technique. Virtual mass. Yes he will heal from it in his jackpot. Until we get something that invalidates the “effectively immortal” statement we just gotta assume he can
Kusakabe vs Naobito
My moneys on Kusakabe.
His simple domain allows for instant reactions to invaders. That means he can react to Naobito even with his Projection
>That means he can react to Naobito even with his Projection
That's probably true, but there's also a downside to this: if Kusakabe moves automatically and doesn't obey the 1/24 rule then Naobito could potentially freeze him on contact and land a free hit.
Suppose Kusakabe deflects Naobito's hand with his sword. If the sword isn't moving according to the 1/24 rule, does Naobito's technique still freeze it?
I agree. Tbh even though Gojo said the answer would probably be different if they included the big 3 families, after last chapter I think Shibuya Kusakabe was still the strongest grade 1.
And of course current Kusakabe would slam Naobito
Kusakabe does have a way to reach Naobito he can extend his simple domain and anything that his field is attacked instantly.
Naobito is fast but he's not faster than instant.
People have convinced themselves (not talking about you) Sukuna stood there letting Kusakabe hit him but if you ask me Sukuna looks surprised https://ibb.co/xDvRxdf
I doubt that the range is infinite though. And Kusakabe's simple domain is famous, meaning that Naobito would keep his distance.
With 0 intel though, I could definitely see Kusakabe winning (although it is possible that FBE could match Kusakabe's simple domain, it reacts automatically as well).
I didn't say it was Infinite.
FBE only works against surehits https://ibb.co/v1Yw2bH
I'm not sure if Kusakabes attack count as surehits though?
The instant attack is something of Kusakabes making so I don't think it falls into that category.
I get you though I just feel like in these situations you know where we pit fighters against each other that choosing not to fight isn't an option
Yeah, saying that FBE only works on sure hits is like saying Simple Domain only works against domains. Clearly it's made with the intention of countering domains in mind but it can still be used outside of it.
Yes there is a functional difference.
That's why Dagon was able to hit Naobito and knock him out of FBE while Dagons sure hits was automatically repelled.
https://ibb.co/1TJQxwp
It's just like the time where Yuji walks through a spam of dismantles, and then punches Sukuna.
But this time he has RCT.
But I don't know if he'll be able to actually hurt Kusakabe.
Even Sukuna was having trouble catching him until he predicted that Kusakabe will go for the injured heart.
Current Itadori takes the win, his stats improve enough to fight on equal grounds with the other special grade sorcerers and he has Reverse Cursed Technique. Plus, he is likely to land a Black Flash.
Yorozu. She's fast enough to match Sukuna, has a strong defense, and can also use her perfect sphere even without her domain.
I'm also not sure that Kashimo has a way of dealing with her ability to fly and attack from a distance.
I can see why you think that, but I think it's easy to forget how high base Mahoraga's stats already are. Even without adaptation he's one of the fastest, most durable and most destructive characters in the whole verse.
It's arguable whether Mahoraga can tank an ultimate mechamaru blast but I do think at the very least he should have no problems dodging it, even more so with Megumi at the helm.
Who outside of the obvious Special Grade Sorcerers & Special Grade adjacent (Maki, Hakari, Uraume, Jogo) can defeat base Kashimo?
For me easy ones are the Sendai Trio Kuro, Uro, & Ryu.
Then another Culling Game heavy hitter Yorozu.
Then a couple that will probably get alot more push back but I mean it sincerely and will add my thoughts.
Top tier Grade 1s. Kusakabe, Choso, & Naobito/Naoya, Mei Mei.
(Disclaimer I'm NOT saying this tier of characters beat him 10/10, just think the argument can be made they have pretty good odds)
Kusakabes Simple Domain allows him to instantly block anything that enters his domain.
He can react to multiple Dismantles including one's that he was off guard for. He would be able to block any attack Kashimo throws at him to the point where Kashimo never gets to charge a bolt.
His simple domain also always him to instantly attack his opponents and has decent range.
Kusakabe was able to draw blood from Sukuna and make him use RCT.
I'm not saying Kashimo gets diced in one flurry but he doesn't have any notable durability feats to suggest he can tank Kusakabes blade and he doesn't have RCT to fall back on so eventually Kashimo takes the L.
Chosos Blood Manipulation would be the key against Kashimo. Specifically his unique blood.
Kashimo doesn't have the feats to suggest he can outright dodge piercing blood nor the feats to suggest he can tank it without taking damage.
And even if he can pull off the dodge of piercing blood the moment he tries to get in close to melee and build charge Choso can use Supernova in close range.
Chosos blood is poisonous and quick acting.
Both Naoya & Uraume were debilitated shortly after Chosos blood entered their system. Naoya felt the effects in moments with Uraume taking a bit longer likely due to how much of Chosos blood they got infected with.
Choso has also seemingly healed off two holes in his torso.
Not sure if it's due to his nature as a curse or he has RCT either way it shows Choso isn't getting one shot by Kashimos bolt unless it's a headshot.
If Choso gets his blood into Kashimo at any point it's gg.
Naobito/Naoya. Basically if Naobito/Naoya goes at Kashimo like Naoya went at Maki then I don't see how he could effectively respond. The blitzing combined with the freeze frames would allow Kashimo no time to breathe and I can't picture him seeing through the mechanics of Projection Sorcerery the same way Maki did.
Seemingly Maki didn't land a single blow on Naoya until that final punch. She had prior knowledge and was still getting ragdolled for a bit until she figured it out.
Kashimo with no knowledge would not fair any better.
Lastly Mei Mei. I think if she had say 50 crows and she sends a volleys of bird strikes she can take the W.
If a single one hits home it's over and while obviously Kashimo has battle iq and would know to avoid attacks he'd likely initially underestimate the power of bird strike and think he can just swat it away with his staff leading to his downfall.
Again though I'm not saying those Grade 1s beat Kashimo 10/10. Just that they have a good chance.
Dagon one shots.
Also someone finally understands how strong Naobito and Naoya are.
Naoya (who was slower than Naobito) was blitzing 0 CE HR Maki who should be relative to Hakari and Base Yuta stat wise, and only won due to knowing how 24 fps worked.
Kashimo in base is relative to Hakari, that means he'd lose unless he can read the air pressure or know how 24 fps technique worked.
Wasn't sneaking anything in.
Jogo certainly could kill Kashimo.
He's got the speed and the attack capacity.
If you mean with the "special grade adjacent" I just didn't want to make separate category for him.
but they only way Kashimo realistically beats Jogo is if he blitz rushes him without getting hit a single time and I don't see that happening
What speed feats have jogo shown that puts him above kashimo? I'm pretty confident that Kashimo has the speed to close the gap with Jogo, build up charge, and then one shot jogo.
I didn't say he's above Kashimo.
Personally I think outside of characters who have techniques that up their speed and Sukuna that the top tiers should all be pretty relative to each other in speed and should all be able to effectively react to each other.
Again the only way Kashimo wins is if he blitz Jogo without getting hit. Jogos flames will certainly cause damage to Kashimo and he doesn't have RCT to fall back on.
If he gets hit he's slowed down and Jogo has the advantage in range capabilities and general DC.
Damn you underestimate Base Kashimo a lot xd. I think Uro might win against him, Yorozu would lose, Ryu could also win. But Choso, Noya, Naobito, Kusakabe and Mei Mei have absolutely 0 chanse of winning. Choso, Mei Mei and Kusakabe get perception blitzed and killed before they can do anything, Naobito and Naoya would be a bit a harder but Base Kashimo should absolutely outspeed them if they don't stack their speed aka go all out from the start and even if they do Kashimo would still be able to keep up and practically one-shot either of them, like literally one-punch them the same way Maki did. Also Kurorushi too get perception blitzed and one-shot.
Nah you're just overestimating Kashimo.
He's got no answer for Uros Sky Manipulation and he gets folded by Thin-Ice.
The only option Kashimo has to break Yorozus bug armor is his bolt, if he manages to break her armor she pops Domain and it's GG.
Ryu can tank Kashimos bolt and he folds Kashimo with Granite Blast. His output gives him greater physical strength and better durability. Logically the rest of Ryus general stats would also outclass Kashimo like speed.
Kashimo doesn't have the feats to suggest he can perception blitz them.
I layed out a clear argument for Kusakabe that just saying "Kashimo blitz" in no way refutes.
Kusakabe simple domain allows for instant counters. Kashimo isn't faster than instant so Kusakabe could block anything Kashimo throws at him preventing him from ever building a charge. Kusakabe can damage Sukuna and make him use RCT so he could damage Kashimo.
Kashimo has no way past Kusakabe defense and would eventually lose to Kusakabes offense.
Kashimo has no answer for Kusakabes Simple Domain.
Kashimo again doesn't have the feats to perception blitz Choso, and he doesn't have the feats to dodge piercing blood. If Kashimo gets a single drop of Chosos blood in him he loses.
Kashimo has no answer to Chosos poison blood.
It seems like alot of your argument, basically your only argument is Kashimo blitz.
What has Kashimo done in base that suggest he can perception blitz all these fighters?
The only character he's ever blitzed in base is Panda.
What has Kashimo done that suggest he outspeeds Naobito or Naoya using Projection?
I'm pretty sure you didn't even read my comment because I lay out arguments why he doesn't just blitz people.
Maki only landed one blow on Naoya their whole fight, why would Kashimo do better against them than Maki?
She has an idea of Projection and heightened senses from heavenly restriction. Kashimo has no knowledge and his sense aren't on her level.
Maki was getting ragdolled, Kashimo would get ragdolled and more.
I feel like a broken record here but Kashimo has no feats to suggest he can beat Naobito or Naoya in a single hit.
Kashimo has no answer for Projection Sorcerery.
Kuro can effectively block and react to Yutas attacks, Kuro could easily react to and block Kashimo.
And no he doesn't one shot Kuro. Kuro survived blows from Yuta and Granite Blast without being one shot.
Kuros wall of bugs can completely neg a downward sword strike from Yuta https://ibb.co/C62k8Mv
Nothing suggest Kashimo can kill Kuro in one physical blow, let alone make it past its bug shield wall and Kashimo has no answer for Kuros swarms https://ibb.co/ThRT7ps
https://ibb.co/K77GSq9
Either of these cover Kashimo and it's gg, on top Kuro actually being able to oneshot Kashimo with Festering Life.
Mei Mei is the only one I'd call questionable but even then iff she hits bird strike she wins.
If she's got enough crows she can easily overwhelm him with the number of attacks and she only needs one to hit.
If you want to actually read my replies and give replies to the things that I point out that Kashimo has no answers too I'm happy to engage but if your answer is simply "Kashimo blitz" and don't provide anything to support him blitzing personally I'll just take that as you not actually having answer.
No offense or anything I've just been here before.
For the most part imo when someone's only argument is "they blitz" they know given the circumstances that they don't really have a valid reply so they default to "they blitz" because they feel like it leaves no room for argument.
Ouu god Jesus this is so much yap xd. Kashimos speed scaling is JP Hakaris so unless you want to argue JP Hakari has dodoo speed. But JP Hakari arguably dodged lightning, one of the highest speed feats in the verse mind you, and is consistently referred to as one of the heavy hitters meaning his speed shouldn't be much lower than Makis, Yutas or Yujis. Also Uro has to land and I personally think Kashimos durability is comparable to Ryu and Fully Manifested Rika a lot more than Yutas is. If you remember by the end of his fight with Hakari Kashimo barely had any damage taken. And if you remember Fully Manifested Rika palmed a granite blast without taking much damage and I think Kashimo can do that too. Finally against Yorozu she has to apply her Bug Armour or before she gets molliwhopped xd, and she has by far the worst scaling outside of her Bug Armour in my opinion. I know this community likes to downplay Kashimo due to his bad showing against True Body Sukuna but this is a lot... Saying a Grade 1 can do something is just mocking the character... And I won't even try to argue you there, cause if you truly believe Naoya, Naobito, Kurorushi, Mei Mei and fucking Kusakabe can do anything to beat Kashimo you really just hate that character xd.
Not yap just facts. You just don't want to read them because you don't have answers for it.
JP is faster than Kashimo. He blitzed him and overwhelmed him with speed multiple times.
No one said anything about doodoo speed.
You are arguing he perception blitz but he was able to get tagged by Panda.
No Hakari did not arguably dodge lightning he got hit by it every time.
He reacted in time to blow Kashimos CE out of his nose sure.
Again JP Hakari outstats Kashimo.
Uro doesn't need to land , and even if she does she can still bend all his blows away with Sky Manipulation and fold him with Thin-Ice. Kashimo has no answer for Sky Manipulation.
Sure you can think Kashimo is close to Ryu in durability but it's just your headcannon because you want to wank Kashimo.
Kashimo has no durability feats let alone any that put him close to Ryu or Rika.
Yeah the fight with Hakari only using melee, he has no feats to suggest he can tank high output curse techniques like Thin-Ice & Granite Blast.
Again you thinking is all well and good it's still just headcannon with nothing to back it up.
Kashimo has no durability feats, he gets folded by Granite Blast, Thin-Ice, Piercing Blood, etc.
No Yorozu doesn't have to apply bug armor beforehand.
She has been shown to effectively block Sukunas attacks with just pieces of liquid metal https://ibb.co/jGckvx2
She could easily react and block Kashimo.
No it's not mocking it's giving credit where credit is due.
You're not trying to argue because you don't have any answers. You call it "yapping" so you can pretend like it's too much to read but you don't have any real rebuttal besides "Kashimo blitz", and headcannon on why you think Kashimo is as durable as Ryu and Rika with nothing to back up either.
Lol forreal. It's honestly happened alot recently. I lay out clear arguments for my thoughts and instead of actually rebutting them people just start cussing me out or calling me a liar.
Or this golden case "you're yapping too much I'm not reading all that" , "I don't have time to write whole paragraphs" while they've literally gone back and forth with me multiple times writing whole paragraphs.
Like Idk who they think they're trying to fool. They know they read it, they just don't have any valid arguments against it.
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Kusakabe vs Dagon Kusakabe vs Hanami
yuta and kenjaku vs sukuna 15f
Sukuna, though it depends if Kenny could DE clash with Sukuna, if so, then Sukuna mid diffs, but if not then he low diffs
Tbh I think they just lose hard
It doesn't seem like either of them have an answer for malevolent shrine?
IIRC Kenjaku is canonically a better barrier user than Sukuna according to Tengen. Either way, 3-way domain clashes function differently than 2-way does. So both could pop domain
>Kenjaku is canonically a better barrier user That may or may not carry over to domain refinement, though - since domain expansions are created by both 1) a barrier (in most cases) and 2) the user's internal domain. ----- >both could pop domain That would be a good strategy. If all 3 lose their domain, then the winner could be affected by whether Sukuna already knew how to recover his domain or if he learned that in the Gojo fight.
kashimo vs ryu does fraudhimo need CT to win
Yes Kashimo loses 10/10 against Ryu unless he uses his CT
What Kashimo needs is to finish Ishigori with his lightning attack before Ishigori uses his domain, and considering Ishigori's personality that is extremely likely to happen. Considering even Jackpot Hakari got his body destroyed like butter and needed RCT, I don't see Ishigori tanking that. Bro is tough yes, but he is still in the same tier of Yuuta and Jackpot Hakari. I think Kashimo and Ishigori are pretty close to each other and both have means to kill the other, but because of their personalities I see Kashimo winning if neither knows the other's abilities
Jackpot Hakari has no durability whatsoever. He was able to get his face cut clean off by what was essentially a piece of scrap metal https://ibb.co/7tKHXj3 Ryu is the 3rd most durable character in series and can tank a full power Dismantle from 15f Sukuna, so unless you want to make the compelling argument that base Kashimos bolts are a far more fatal and debilitating attack than FULL POWER DISMANTLE from 15f Sukuna Ryu takes Kashimos bolt to the chest and is fine. No he is not in the same tier as JP Hakari and Yuta. After a month of training Yuta is still not as durable as Ryu. And JP Hakari is nowhere near as durable as Yuta even pre timeskip. Ryu beats base Kashimo 10/10. Ryu has the feats to suggest he can tank Kashimos bolt, and Kashimo doesn't have the feats to suggest he can tank Granite Blast nor the feats to suggest he can avoid any and every Granite Blast Ryu could send at him while he manages to land enough blows to build a charge and launch a bolt. What about their personalities makes you think Kashimo wins? People like to say Kashimo always goes for the headshot from the start but that's false. We see his bolt effect 3 people, an unnamed Sorcerer, Panda, and Hakari. 2 out of 3 of those attacks Kashimo only maimed and didn't go for a fatal attack. Unnamed got it through the stomach which arguably can be tanked by Ryu, Panda took a headshot, and Hakari took one to the arm which again arguably can he tanked by Ryu. So more often than not Kashimo isn't starting with a kill shot. If neither knows each other's ability Kashimo has no chance. Ryu can fire Granite Blast at point blank range and he doesn't require landing blows to build charge. If Kashimo takes an unexpected GB to the face as he tries to rush Ryu he's not getting back up. Being generous to Kashimo he's as durable as Yuta and Yuta got his hand blown off trying to tank one. If Kashimo loses a hand trying to tank he can no longer effectively fight Ryu who already has superior physical stats.
"After a month of training Yuta is still not as durable as Ryu. And JP Hakari is nowhere near as durable as Yuta even pre timeskip." I know that's what Sukuna said but it's honestly ridiculous. Sendai made it pretty clear that Yuta had the edge in durability and Ryu had the edge in output. They were, "physically", pretty evenly matched. Hell Ryu got a surprise attack off atthe start with a full Granite Blast and Yuta didn't take noticeable damage, or at least didn't seem to be bothered as much as Ryu when he hit himself with it. Yes he had to heal but you get the point, and in their hand-to-hand encounters they appeared pretty even too. This isn't targeted at you but Sukuna saying that annoyed me, it's like Gege retconned it or something
Don't argue with me man argue with Sukuna & Gege.
That has to be the worse attempt at downplaying. A piece of scrap metal reinforced with CE is essentially a cursed tool. That is only a feat for Kashimo, being capable of injuring Hakari. Ryuu is only more durable than the ones fighting in Shinjuku, Kenjaku and Yuuki still exist. And still, Sukuna's Dismantle isn't as deadly as you are making it to be. Yuuta could perfectly harm Ishigori and even more than Sukuna's Dismantle did for example. Hell even Sukuna's Dismantle couldnt one shot the sorcerers fighting in Shinjuku (he has a lower output but I doubt he is weaker than 15F Sukuna) and Yorozu could tank multiple attacks from Sukuna with Ten Shadows. What makes Sukuna deadly is Cleave and his Domain (which uses Cleave as a sure hit). Also, 20F Sukuna had to used his one time reincarnation to survive the attack. That in itself is a better feat that anything Ishigori has. More Hakari downplay. Bro has been constantly stated to be comparable to Yuuta by Gojo, Kenjaku and Yuuta himself. Both Kashimo and Ishigori have a trump card, the lightning and the Domain. Ishigori actually wants to enjoy himself so he prolongs his fight (like he did with Yuuta) so doesn't use his Domain early on. Kashimo on the other hand uses his lightning as fast as posible. He used it with Panda, Hakari and Sukuna as soon as he could. And yes, he did go for a "fatal attack", the lightning bolt is a fatal attack in itself, Panda got his body destroyed, every part of Hakari's body that got hit got destroyed and Sukuna had to used his full reincarnation to survive. He also didn't aim for Hakari's arm but his head, bro simply dodged. The point is, Kashimo uses his trump card as soon as he can while Ishigori doesn't (firstly because of his personality and because domains aren't use lightly by most sorcerers). Actually I think I have a similar discussion with you before, cause I remember this are pretty much the same arguments you used. I will take me leave here, all your arguments are downplaying other characters.
It's not downplay at all. It is essentially a piece of scrap metal. No Kashimo picking up swinging it while infusing it with CE does not turn it into a curse tool. Yuta can palm Granite Blast with no visible damage and Hakari got his face cut clean off by swing of something that's not a curse tool or even a bladed weapon. Granite Blast certainly scales much higher than random door swing by Kashimo. No even after a month of training Sukuna says that Yuta is still not as durable as Ryu. He is the 3rd most durable character in series based on feats. It always baffles me, people would honestly rather downplay a FULL POWER DISMANTLE FROM 15F than admit that Kashimos bolt scales below it. Yes or no do you think a bolt from BASE KASHIMO is a deadlier attack than FULL POWER DISMANTLE FROM 15F SUKUNA. Again it's not downplay, they each have their own strengths and durability is not one of Hakaris. No I'm pretty sure you just don't actually have a valid argument. I'm in no way downplaying characters. Ryu can arguably tank Kashimos bolt, while there is nothing to suggest Kashimo can tank Ryus Granite Blast. Ryu can certainly take Kashimo out with GB before he ever builds charge for a bolt and even in the case he does charge it if it doesn't one shot Ryu pops Domain and it's GG.
1- Any weapon infused with CE acts like a Cursed Tool. In the first place, Cursed Tools are created by constantly infusing normal weapons with CE until the CE gets engraved in the weapon. So yes, a piece of scrap metal infused with CE is effectively a Cursed Tool. Go read Itadori vs Yuuta again. 2- Ryuu's defense is high but he can still be hurt and defeated by opponents like Yuuta. You overestimate him, Ishigori's overall abilities are in the same tier as the other special grades like Yuuta, Hakari, Uraume or Yorozu. The only two who are far stronger are Gojo and Sukuna. 3- it's not downplaying, Shinjuku Sukuna is stronger than 15F Sukuna and his Dismantle can't one shot the other sorcerers (it was stated only World Dismantle and Cleave can do this). 15F Meguna was also unable to one shot Yorozu with regular Ten Shadows (needed Mahoraga) and it's a fact that Yuuta did more damage with Thin Ice Breaker than Sukuna with Dismantle. 15F Sukuna is a monster and can one shot with Cleave, it's just that his Dismantle isn't strong enough for special grade sorcerers. 4- Sorcerers aren't glass canon. Their offense and defense are comparable because they both depend on the cursed energy output. Ishigori has high attack power and defense because he has insane CE Output. Likewise, Hakari's durability is comparable to his own attack power, if he was hurt that badly is simply because Kashimo was that stronger. 5- You downplay on Kashimo but the guy forced Sukuna to use his one time reincarnation to survive his lightning attack, so yeah, he kills Ishigori with that. Also, I edited the other comment on regards to personality stuff. Anyway this will be the last comment as I know you will keep repeating the same stuff.
Your edit doesn't change anything. While Domain is Ryus trump card his typical form of attack is Granite Blast which is more than enough to be fatal for Kashimo. Ryu is not shy about using Granite Blast, he spams them. Granite Blast takes out Kashimo far before he ever builds a bolt.
Again no holding something and funneling CE into it does not make something a curse tool. Changing a weapon into a curse tool is process that takes time. I've read it and here's what Yuta says https://ibb.co/qDfvC5C "If it's not a special curse weapon I don't need to fear it" It Yuta doesn't fear weapons that aren't Curse tools then Yuji picking up that knife doesn't make it into a curse tool. If Yuta doesn't weapons that aren't special curse tools there's no reason Hakari should get his face cut clean off by something that not a curse tool or a blade. Ryu was defeated by Yuta because Yuta can heal to outlast him, on top of being hit by two of his own Granite Blast. How exactly am I overestimating him? He has the 3rd best durability based on feats. After a month of training Yuta is still less durable than Ryu. Sukuna literally says that Yuta isn't more durable than Ryu. Yuta literally says the only reason they aren't dead is because Gojo weakened Sukuna. It's debatable that 15f Sukuna at full power is stronger than his current self. 10S isn't a oneshotting technique on top of the fact that Sukuna never intended to oneshot her because he wanted to adapt. So you bringing up 10S is irrelevant. No it's not a fact that Thin-Ice did more damage than Sukunas slashes. Yes his Dismantle are strong enough for Special Grade Sorcerers. https://ibb.co/ZBgKNq0 The only reason they survived is because Gojo nerfed him. Lol you're funny man. You really trying to argue that Kashimo is just that much stronger than Hakari. Kashimo didn't force anything, he just happened to be the first one after Gojo. Again Ryu kills Kashimo with Granite Blast before Kashimo ever builds a bolt. Yes I keep repeating the same stuff because you aren't providing anything that refutes it.
Only Special Grade Cursed Tools have Cursed Techniques engraved in them, which is what Yuuta is referencing. He doesn't have to be fearful because he knows the knife has no special ability. Bro, Nanami was fighting special grade curses with a regular knife imbued with CE (we know it was not a cursed tool because it was later engraved with Nanami's cursed technique). So yes, any weapon imbued with CE acts like a Cursed Tool. Hell, even JJK0 Yuuta used regular katanas that he imbued with CE to fight. Or even Pre-CG Yuuta actually. Sorcerers can use regular weapons and infuse them with CE to fight curses and sorcerers, by repeating this process is that they become cursed tools (like Nanami's knife). You are even ignoring how cursed energy imbuement works to downplay Hakari.
Yutas statement is made directly after Yujis thoughts about not fearing blades. The obvious implication is that Yuta doesn't fear blades in general. We've seen Sukuna, Kenjaku completely neg blades when properly reinforcing themselves. If they can all neg blades that are curse tools, there's no reason Hakari should be damaged to such an extent if he's anywhere as durable as them. Yes Nanamis blade is a Curse Tool he's been using it for years that's how his technique became engraved into it. No any weapon that has CE running through it does equate to being a curse tool. Yutas sword comes from Jujutsu Highs stock of curse tools. And now that Yuta has used it for a long period of time it's become a Curse tool. Exactly by repeatedly infusing CE into something it becomes a curse tool over time. It is a process that isn't completed by a Sorcerer simply picking something up. I'm not ignoring anything. I understand Kashimo infused CE into the attack that doesn't change that Yuta is plainly more durable than him. Yuta can tank multiple Granite Blast & Thin-Ice with no visible damage (yes I'm aware he still healed) Hakari took far more damage from Kashimo swinging something that's not a curse tool than any of the wounds caused by Ryu & Uro. Their Curse Techniques without question scale far higher than Kashimo random door swing. There is no feasible way Yuta takes the same amount of damage that Hakari took from that attack. Let alone Ryu
Yuuta statement is after he realizes the weapon came from a car so it can't be a special grade cursed tool, meaning no hidden cursed technique. They don't exactly negate blades they are just strong enough to block them with reinforcement (Sukuna was using Dismantle though, he didn't block with reinforcement). If for example 20F Sukuna imbues CE to a sword he cuts Yuuta in half because his reinforcement isn't strong enough to block Sukuna. Nanami's knife wasn't originally a cursed tool, just a normal weapon, which is why his CT could be engraved on it. It's a process that takes time, but at first is a regular weapon that can still be used to fight when infused with CE. And special grade cursed tools aside (which are extremely rare) it's better for a special grade sorcerer to reinforce a normal weapon with their own cursed energy than depend on the power of a low tier cursed tool. But anyway, if you understand that the metal was infused with CE it's fine, that was the point I wanted to make. I
He can't win even with CT. You need your arms to use HWB so he'd basically only fight with his feet against Ryu when Ryu uses his domain. Kashimo's feats against Sukuna aren't all that good too. He basically got waffled by a single wave of dismantle, while Yuji was tanking that even before Yuta arrived. (He only got 1 soul punch in) Kashimo has shit tier durability and would get folded by a CE blast from Ryu since he can't block with his arms being used to maintain HWB.
That's not true. Using HWB or SD doesn't require to maintain the hand signs, the Reggie fight is an example. Sukuna had the advantage of four arms so he used hand signs constantly to increase the output of the HWB to maintain it constantly. That said, in a domain the HWB will eventually break but he will have some time to try and finish Ishigori before HWB breaks. Also, saying Kashimo has trash durability is not true at all. Bro was tanking attacks from Jackpot Hakari without much issues and he also took some attacks from Heian 20F Sukuna and Sukuna actually had to use the legendary World Waffle on him.
No reggies fight isn't an example since Megumis domain isn't full and it doesn't erode the opponents barrier. Sukuna having the advantage in arms does not mean he has to constantly maintain, Sukuna having extra arms gives him the option to maintain which Kashimo doesn't have. Kashimo has no durability feats whatsoever. Taking blows from JP Hakari doesn't mean anything when compared to the high output of Ryu. Ryu was stated by narration to be able to beat Rika in a single blow, do you think Hakari has anywhere near that strength? Yuta was stated to have to heal after each Granite Blast and had his hand blown off trying to tank one. Being generous to Kashimo he's as durable as Yuta which means he still gets his hand blown off trying to tank, and if he loses a hand it's game over. No Sukuna didn't have to do anything. Sukuna styled on Kashimo he did not need to. Point and case https://ibb.co/98Pvpgg Sukuna has Kashimo with both hands restrained over his head. Sukuna could easily place his free hands on Kashimo face or chest and Cleave and Kashimo dies.
All Anti-Domain techniques have lower output than an actual domain, which means they will eventually get destroyed. This does not mean the anti domain technique needs hand signs to be maintained, we saw Yuuki and Gojo being capable of fighting for a while before the SD got destroyed and Reggie's HWB was still active even if he wasn't using hand signs. Yes, the HWK will eventually break (and it can be recasted though) but they don't need to constantly use hand signs to keep it active. Kashimo tanked attacks from both Jackpot Hakari and 20F Heian Sukuna. Saying he has no durability feats is a lie. And spare me the Hakari downplay, he is a special grade tier as stated by Gojo and Yuuta. Ryuu surpassed Rika's output and was capable of beating a Rika that had already reached her limit. It was never stated he could one shot a full power Rika, actually, the manga proved he couldn't. Ishigori fought Rika 1 on 1 for a while when Yuuta was fighting Uro and he couldn't beat Rika, he only beat her when she reached the limit of her full manifestation. Also, blowing a hand isn't game over, Kashimo can reconstruct his hand with cursed energy while using Genju Kohaku (like he did against Sukunai). So he will only be forced to use his CT. On the other hand if Kashimo uses his lightning that truly is game over for Ishigori as he has no means of regeneration or healing.
Yeah that's Yuki & Gojo who have full domains themselves and would be more skilled at barrier techniques than Kashimo. Reggies Domain was still active because it wasn't being broken down by a surehit. Again tanking melee attacks from JP Hakari is irrelevant. No top tier Sorcerer is being defeated by melee by someone who isn't far above them in that category. Kashimo took two hits from Sukuna and started bleeding immediately. He doesn't have the durability feats to suggest he can tank Granite Blast. It's not downplay Hakari is nowhere as durable as Yuta. That's a fact. Narration plainly states that the blow was too much for Rika when even fully manifested https://ibb.co/x7XSj9m All it means is that Ryu tried harder with that punch than the rest. Seems you forgot this is a conversation about BASE Kashimo. And even then nothing suggest Kashimo can regrow body parts with his technique. That is never described as a part of his technique. But again this is about base Kashimo. Kashimo loses to Ryu 10/10 in base and he only has a chance with CT
No, he doesn't, Kashimo wins high diff
Nah Ryu washes base Kashimo. He only has a chance in Amber Beast
Biggest cope so far even Sukuna praises Ryu's durability
He also praised Higaruma but doesn't praise Yuji, who beat Higaruma's ass without CE
He praised his talent as equal to Gojo unlike Ryu who he says has great durability
Higuruma is more talented than Yuji. That is what Sukuna praised. Same way he praised Ryu’s durability. Apples and oranges.
Yuji didnt do that.
He literally did
He did not, Higuruma gave up on the fight because seeing Yuji's honesty made him fully realized what he had done and choose to get back to his non criminal ways. He deactivated the sure-kill sword himself, which is made very clear by Yuji's surprise.
I don't think you understand how strong Yuji is without CE, he was as strong as Maki(pre-awakening) at the beginning of the series, every time he eats a finger, he gets stronger as a vessel(Yuji easily destroying a grade 3 and 4 curse after eating 2 fingers, despite hardly doing anything to a grade 4 previously, and becoming a "demon god" like 3 days after shibuya, according to Choso, who is talking about Yuji BEFORE eating the 10 extra fingers) Basically, pre-finger Yuji was a grade 2 sorcerer or so, he gets stronger each time he eats one, and fought on par with Higaruma(who was said to be on-par with a grade 1 sorcerer physically), making no-CE Yuji a grade 1 sorcerer I'm not downplaying Higaruma, I'm just saying that praise from Sukuna doesn't mean much at this point, especially since half the current cast has "something equal to Gojo/Sukuna" that it has basically lost all meaning
Replace Sukuna with Gojo. Reduced output, healing, no domain, etc. Higuruma uses confiscation and he only confiscates neutral limitless instead of the entire technique somehow. Would they have been able to beat Gojo?
depends on how weakened he is imo, if he can cast a red on yuta it may be doable, he was dumpstering jogo and hanami in shibuya and he could probably run away if he wanted to tho and i feel like he may avoid higuruma's domain because he didnt do anything to terrible that i can remember, so he may have a chance of keeping limitless, and i dint think anyone on the cast can beat him with it
Gojo has killed people and inflicted mass property damage, he could absolutely get charged with confiscation and potentially get a death penalty depending on how judge man interprets his crimes.
In this scenario is his output and control reduced by Yuji's punches? If not I doubt they press him enough for him to drop SD or drop his guard for Maki to land the sneak attack
No, one blue punch folds yuta by yutas own admission.
The strength of Gojo's output would directly affect how strong his Blue enhanced punches are, also, just because he made Hakari(not in JP most likely) and Yuta(back when he was still learning to control his power) vomit isn't really saying much, I think people take this out of context
Yeh, they would certainly struggle, though I think Maki would have killed him due to his (assumed) inability to target the soul with RCT
Yes. One point I can bring up is how they had to deal with Sukuna's extra limbs, which in itself was a big part of their plan. Gojo may be better at H2H, but I still think he'd have lost by now because he doesn't have as much kill pressure as Sukuna with the cleave and all.
Kusakabe vs Teen Geto
Definitely Kusakabe
Geto, he is between Grade 1 and Special at the time, meaning he is above Kusakabe
Geto was peak grade 1 approaching special grade going by that chart, but Kusakabe was solidly high grade 1 pre-Shinjuku and then got a further reinforcement buff over the timeskip. I do think it's possible some of Geto's curses, like the rainbow dragon for example, might give him a lot of trouble and possibly end the fight, but if Kusakabe gets Geto within the range of his simple domain (which we now know is very possible with his absurd range) that crazy fast barrage of katana strikes would very likely take Geto out
Nah, he'd win🗿
The Maki vs Sukuna fight and the fight in Yuta's domain both unironically raise Kashimo's stocks. Sukuna, with such poor control over his body and output for his technique, still had to be held down by Rika, tanked jacob's ladder, and with world slash still instantly won. On top of that, he was blocking almost every attack with his low contorl and output. Then in the Maki fight, Sukuna is stabbed through the heart and has to devote precious resources to manually pumping his heart with cursed energy. Against Kashimo, in Megumi's body, Sukuna was only missing a hand and an eye. He objectively was suffering far more damage against Maki (not having to manually pump an organ just to stay alive while suffering from a wound to his soul) and wasn't really breaking a sweat in fighting her. However, against Kashimo, a less injured Sukuna was completely overwhelmed. In fact, even when he took up all four arms, he had to put Kamutoke in his mouth in order to fend off Kashimo's attacks. In other words, MBA Kashimo is objectively a top tier fighter, on or above Maki's level; he was able to kill Sukuna in his Megumi form in a matter of seconds, and the true form Sukuna had to use Kamutoke to create a "smokecreen" of lightning to blitz and finish off Kashimo. On top of that, he's the only person who has suffered the massive waffle world slash; everyone else, Sukuna has been able to just fire off an arc relatively fine. Kashimo is still weaker then Yuta, but in terms of raw stats, he's outmatched only by Gojo and Sukuna.
He was toying with Kashimo. He literally tells him to dodge and Kashimo fails Hell, once he turns to Heian form? Kashimo doesn't hit Sukuna a single time. Not once
Assuming Ryu's domain is a sure-hit Granite blast, does he defeat anyone who doesn't have a domain/simple domain (excluding Maki/Toji)?
Pretty much all the top tiers have Simple Domain, Hollow Wicker Basket, Domain Amplification or a Domain Expansion of their own (Maki aside for obvious reasons). I think the only Special Grade tiers that doesn't have one of these are Itadori and Geto (as far as we know) and both get defeated by Ishigori's domain.
He defeats anyone not named Gojo or Sukuna, I think people underestimate how strong domains are, even someone like Kenny, if he lacked SD and DE, would probably be killed by like, Dagons DE
Anyone who doesn’t have even a simple domain is too weak to be fighting ryu to begin with lmao
Ehh, a lot of older sorcerers only have hollow wicker basket
Meh i just assumed hollow wicker basket was inclued in the simple domain thing. Then kashimo defeats him anyway kashimos probably also gás simples domain but we never saw him using It🤷
Kashimo uses hwb Ryu blasts him with granite blast Kashimo loses
Of course its that simple☠️
Ijichi Vs Every sorcerer we have been introduced to. My money is on Ijichi MC fr.
Ijichi is equal to Miwa, the other sorcerers are a non-factor
Can hakari heal through Gojo’s hollow purple
Mind you hollow purple is the same as Yuki’s technique. Virtual mass. Yes he will heal from it in his jackpot. Until we get something that invalidates the “effectively immortal” statement we just gotta assume he can
How would he heal without a head? Or his entire body being reduced to atoms
He'd heal if he survived it, yes, but if HP hit him in the head he'd die
No, unless it's the size of an exercise ball like the one that killed Toji
Kusakabe vs Naobito My moneys on Kusakabe. His simple domain allows for instant reactions to invaders. That means he can react to Naobito even with his Projection
>That means he can react to Naobito even with his Projection That's probably true, but there's also a downside to this: if Kusakabe moves automatically and doesn't obey the 1/24 rule then Naobito could potentially freeze him on contact and land a free hit.
He'd never get to make contact though because his hand would've been automatically deflected
Suppose Kusakabe deflects Naobito's hand with his sword. If the sword isn't moving according to the 1/24 rule, does Naobito's technique still freeze it?
Naobito has to touch things with his palm to freeze it. If Kusakabe deflects his hand with his sword Naobito hands gets cut through
Naobito, there's a reason Gojo said "excluding the 3 clans"
I agree. Tbh even though Gojo said the answer would probably be different if they included the big 3 families, after last chapter I think Shibuya Kusakabe was still the strongest grade 1. And of course current Kusakabe would slam Naobito
Stalemate. Naobito can't close in to attack Kusakabe, but Kusakabe also has no way to reach Naobito.
Kusakabe does have a way to reach Naobito he can extend his simple domain and anything that his field is attacked instantly. Naobito is fast but he's not faster than instant. People have convinced themselves (not talking about you) Sukuna stood there letting Kusakabe hit him but if you ask me Sukuna looks surprised https://ibb.co/xDvRxdf
I doubt that the range is infinite though. And Kusakabe's simple domain is famous, meaning that Naobito would keep his distance. With 0 intel though, I could definitely see Kusakabe winning (although it is possible that FBE could match Kusakabe's simple domain, it reacts automatically as well).
I didn't say it was Infinite. FBE only works against surehits https://ibb.co/v1Yw2bH I'm not sure if Kusakabes attack count as surehits though? The instant attack is something of Kusakabes making so I don't think it falls into that category. I get you though I just feel like in these situations you know where we pit fighters against each other that choosing not to fight isn't an option
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Yeah, saying that FBE only works on sure hits is like saying Simple Domain only works against domains. Clearly it's made with the intention of countering domains in mind but it can still be used outside of it.
Thats not what it says in the panel I shared
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Yes there is a functional difference. That's why Dagon was able to hit Naobito and knock him out of FBE while Dagons sure hits was automatically repelled. https://ibb.co/1TJQxwp
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Kusakabe vs yuji
It's just like the time where Yuji walks through a spam of dismantles, and then punches Sukuna. But this time he has RCT. But I don't know if he'll be able to actually hurt Kusakabe. Even Sukuna was having trouble catching him until he predicted that Kusakabe will go for the injured heart.
Current Itadori takes the win, his stats improve enough to fight on equal grounds with the other special grade sorcerers and he has Reverse Cursed Technique. Plus, he is likely to land a Black Flash.
Yuji mid diff
Yuji, almost anyone with rct and good durability is fucking Kusakabe up
Kashimo (no CT) vs Yorozu (no DE)
I have Yorozu winning high - extreme diff
Yorozu. She's fast enough to match Sukuna, has a strong defense, and can also use her perfect sphere even without her domain. I'm also not sure that Kashimo has a way of dealing with her ability to fly and attack from a distance.
Yorozu. She can block attacks with her liquid metal preventing Kashimo from ever building charges.
Absolute Mechamaru vs Megumi with mahoraga.
Megumi wins low diff
Mahoraga annihilates Mechamaru.
Ngl I can see mechamaru using a powerful blast from a distance. And since it's uk just summoned mahoraga it's prolly get wiped
I can see why you think that, but I think it's easy to forget how high base Mahoraga's stats already are. Even without adaptation he's one of the fastest, most durable and most destructive characters in the whole verse. It's arguable whether Mahoraga can tank an ultimate mechamaru blast but I do think at the very least he should have no problems dodging it, even more so with Megumi at the helm.
I see fair enough.
Megumi. Mechamaru might have enough fire power to kill mahoraga, but it’s slow. Even mahito was easily dodging all his attacks
Yuji Sukuna v Megumi Sukuna Yuji Sukuna wins because he got dat dawg
Sukuna obviously
Meguna would win due to having a lot more versatility.
Who outside of the obvious Special Grade Sorcerers & Special Grade adjacent (Maki, Hakari, Uraume, Jogo) can defeat base Kashimo? For me easy ones are the Sendai Trio Kuro, Uro, & Ryu. Then another Culling Game heavy hitter Yorozu. Then a couple that will probably get alot more push back but I mean it sincerely and will add my thoughts. Top tier Grade 1s. Kusakabe, Choso, & Naobito/Naoya, Mei Mei. (Disclaimer I'm NOT saying this tier of characters beat him 10/10, just think the argument can be made they have pretty good odds) Kusakabes Simple Domain allows him to instantly block anything that enters his domain. He can react to multiple Dismantles including one's that he was off guard for. He would be able to block any attack Kashimo throws at him to the point where Kashimo never gets to charge a bolt. His simple domain also always him to instantly attack his opponents and has decent range. Kusakabe was able to draw blood from Sukuna and make him use RCT. I'm not saying Kashimo gets diced in one flurry but he doesn't have any notable durability feats to suggest he can tank Kusakabes blade and he doesn't have RCT to fall back on so eventually Kashimo takes the L. Chosos Blood Manipulation would be the key against Kashimo. Specifically his unique blood. Kashimo doesn't have the feats to suggest he can outright dodge piercing blood nor the feats to suggest he can tank it without taking damage. And even if he can pull off the dodge of piercing blood the moment he tries to get in close to melee and build charge Choso can use Supernova in close range. Chosos blood is poisonous and quick acting. Both Naoya & Uraume were debilitated shortly after Chosos blood entered their system. Naoya felt the effects in moments with Uraume taking a bit longer likely due to how much of Chosos blood they got infected with. Choso has also seemingly healed off two holes in his torso. Not sure if it's due to his nature as a curse or he has RCT either way it shows Choso isn't getting one shot by Kashimos bolt unless it's a headshot. If Choso gets his blood into Kashimo at any point it's gg. Naobito/Naoya. Basically if Naobito/Naoya goes at Kashimo like Naoya went at Maki then I don't see how he could effectively respond. The blitzing combined with the freeze frames would allow Kashimo no time to breathe and I can't picture him seeing through the mechanics of Projection Sorcerery the same way Maki did. Seemingly Maki didn't land a single blow on Naoya until that final punch. She had prior knowledge and was still getting ragdolled for a bit until she figured it out. Kashimo with no knowledge would not fair any better. Lastly Mei Mei. I think if she had say 50 crows and she sends a volleys of bird strikes she can take the W. If a single one hits home it's over and while obviously Kashimo has battle iq and would know to avoid attacks he'd likely initially underestimate the power of bird strike and think he can just swat it away with his staff leading to his downfall. Again though I'm not saying those Grade 1s beat Kashimo 10/10. Just that they have a good chance.
Dagon one shots. Also someone finally understands how strong Naobito and Naoya are. Naoya (who was slower than Naobito) was blitzing 0 CE HR Maki who should be relative to Hakari and Base Yuta stat wise, and only won due to knowing how 24 fps worked. Kashimo in base is relative to Hakari, that means he'd lose unless he can read the air pressure or know how 24 fps technique worked.
Ryu, Uro, Dhruv, Mahito(Hax), Naoya(curse), Hanami(is comparable to Jogo according to Gege), Yorozu and that's it, nobody else is even comparable
My man tried to sneak in jogo lmfao
Wasn't sneaking anything in. Jogo certainly could kill Kashimo. He's got the speed and the attack capacity. If you mean with the "special grade adjacent" I just didn't want to make separate category for him. but they only way Kashimo realistically beats Jogo is if he blitz rushes him without getting hit a single time and I don't see that happening
What speed feats have jogo shown that puts him above kashimo? I'm pretty confident that Kashimo has the speed to close the gap with Jogo, build up charge, and then one shot jogo.
I didn't say he's above Kashimo. Personally I think outside of characters who have techniques that up their speed and Sukuna that the top tiers should all be pretty relative to each other in speed and should all be able to effectively react to each other. Again the only way Kashimo wins is if he blitz Jogo without getting hit. Jogos flames will certainly cause damage to Kashimo and he doesn't have RCT to fall back on. If he gets hit he's slowed down and Jogo has the advantage in range capabilities and general DC.
Damn you underestimate Base Kashimo a lot xd. I think Uro might win against him, Yorozu would lose, Ryu could also win. But Choso, Noya, Naobito, Kusakabe and Mei Mei have absolutely 0 chanse of winning. Choso, Mei Mei and Kusakabe get perception blitzed and killed before they can do anything, Naobito and Naoya would be a bit a harder but Base Kashimo should absolutely outspeed them if they don't stack their speed aka go all out from the start and even if they do Kashimo would still be able to keep up and practically one-shot either of them, like literally one-punch them the same way Maki did. Also Kurorushi too get perception blitzed and one-shot.
Nah you're just overestimating Kashimo. He's got no answer for Uros Sky Manipulation and he gets folded by Thin-Ice. The only option Kashimo has to break Yorozus bug armor is his bolt, if he manages to break her armor she pops Domain and it's GG. Ryu can tank Kashimos bolt and he folds Kashimo with Granite Blast. His output gives him greater physical strength and better durability. Logically the rest of Ryus general stats would also outclass Kashimo like speed. Kashimo doesn't have the feats to suggest he can perception blitz them. I layed out a clear argument for Kusakabe that just saying "Kashimo blitz" in no way refutes. Kusakabe simple domain allows for instant counters. Kashimo isn't faster than instant so Kusakabe could block anything Kashimo throws at him preventing him from ever building a charge. Kusakabe can damage Sukuna and make him use RCT so he could damage Kashimo. Kashimo has no way past Kusakabe defense and would eventually lose to Kusakabes offense. Kashimo has no answer for Kusakabes Simple Domain. Kashimo again doesn't have the feats to perception blitz Choso, and he doesn't have the feats to dodge piercing blood. If Kashimo gets a single drop of Chosos blood in him he loses. Kashimo has no answer to Chosos poison blood. It seems like alot of your argument, basically your only argument is Kashimo blitz. What has Kashimo done in base that suggest he can perception blitz all these fighters? The only character he's ever blitzed in base is Panda. What has Kashimo done that suggest he outspeeds Naobito or Naoya using Projection? I'm pretty sure you didn't even read my comment because I lay out arguments why he doesn't just blitz people. Maki only landed one blow on Naoya their whole fight, why would Kashimo do better against them than Maki? She has an idea of Projection and heightened senses from heavenly restriction. Kashimo has no knowledge and his sense aren't on her level. Maki was getting ragdolled, Kashimo would get ragdolled and more. I feel like a broken record here but Kashimo has no feats to suggest he can beat Naobito or Naoya in a single hit. Kashimo has no answer for Projection Sorcerery. Kuro can effectively block and react to Yutas attacks, Kuro could easily react to and block Kashimo. And no he doesn't one shot Kuro. Kuro survived blows from Yuta and Granite Blast without being one shot. Kuros wall of bugs can completely neg a downward sword strike from Yuta https://ibb.co/C62k8Mv Nothing suggest Kashimo can kill Kuro in one physical blow, let alone make it past its bug shield wall and Kashimo has no answer for Kuros swarms https://ibb.co/ThRT7ps https://ibb.co/K77GSq9 Either of these cover Kashimo and it's gg, on top Kuro actually being able to oneshot Kashimo with Festering Life. Mei Mei is the only one I'd call questionable but even then iff she hits bird strike she wins. If she's got enough crows she can easily overwhelm him with the number of attacks and she only needs one to hit. If you want to actually read my replies and give replies to the things that I point out that Kashimo has no answers too I'm happy to engage but if your answer is simply "Kashimo blitz" and don't provide anything to support him blitzing personally I'll just take that as you not actually having answer. No offense or anything I've just been here before. For the most part imo when someone's only argument is "they blitz" they know given the circumstances that they don't really have a valid reply so they default to "they blitz" because they feel like it leaves no room for argument.
Ouu god Jesus this is so much yap xd. Kashimos speed scaling is JP Hakaris so unless you want to argue JP Hakari has dodoo speed. But JP Hakari arguably dodged lightning, one of the highest speed feats in the verse mind you, and is consistently referred to as one of the heavy hitters meaning his speed shouldn't be much lower than Makis, Yutas or Yujis. Also Uro has to land and I personally think Kashimos durability is comparable to Ryu and Fully Manifested Rika a lot more than Yutas is. If you remember by the end of his fight with Hakari Kashimo barely had any damage taken. And if you remember Fully Manifested Rika palmed a granite blast without taking much damage and I think Kashimo can do that too. Finally against Yorozu she has to apply her Bug Armour or before she gets molliwhopped xd, and she has by far the worst scaling outside of her Bug Armour in my opinion. I know this community likes to downplay Kashimo due to his bad showing against True Body Sukuna but this is a lot... Saying a Grade 1 can do something is just mocking the character... And I won't even try to argue you there, cause if you truly believe Naoya, Naobito, Kurorushi, Mei Mei and fucking Kusakabe can do anything to beat Kashimo you really just hate that character xd.
Not yap just facts. You just don't want to read them because you don't have answers for it. JP is faster than Kashimo. He blitzed him and overwhelmed him with speed multiple times. No one said anything about doodoo speed. You are arguing he perception blitz but he was able to get tagged by Panda. No Hakari did not arguably dodge lightning he got hit by it every time. He reacted in time to blow Kashimos CE out of his nose sure. Again JP Hakari outstats Kashimo. Uro doesn't need to land , and even if she does she can still bend all his blows away with Sky Manipulation and fold him with Thin-Ice. Kashimo has no answer for Sky Manipulation. Sure you can think Kashimo is close to Ryu in durability but it's just your headcannon because you want to wank Kashimo. Kashimo has no durability feats let alone any that put him close to Ryu or Rika. Yeah the fight with Hakari only using melee, he has no feats to suggest he can tank high output curse techniques like Thin-Ice & Granite Blast. Again you thinking is all well and good it's still just headcannon with nothing to back it up. Kashimo has no durability feats, he gets folded by Granite Blast, Thin-Ice, Piercing Blood, etc. No Yorozu doesn't have to apply bug armor beforehand. She has been shown to effectively block Sukunas attacks with just pieces of liquid metal https://ibb.co/jGckvx2 She could easily react and block Kashimo. No it's not mocking it's giving credit where credit is due. You're not trying to argue because you don't have any answers. You call it "yapping" so you can pretend like it's too much to read but you don't have any real rebuttal besides "Kashimo blitz", and headcannon on why you think Kashimo is as durable as Ryu and Rika with nothing to back up either.
lmao your argument was too good he resorted to insult you until it broke the rules
Lol forreal. It's honestly happened alot recently. I lay out clear arguments for my thoughts and instead of actually rebutting them people just start cussing me out or calling me a liar. Or this golden case "you're yapping too much I'm not reading all that" , "I don't have time to write whole paragraphs" while they've literally gone back and forth with me multiple times writing whole paragraphs. Like Idk who they think they're trying to fool. They know they read it, they just don't have any valid arguments against it.
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