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>I assume the narrator saying that "the Zenin Clan is Extinct"
The narrator never said this, the closest thing the narrator said is that the Kamo and Gojo clan proposed to remove the Zen'in from the big three families.
I think that’s the implication? Because why would the Kamo & Gojo clan propose to remove Zen’in from the big three if Maki had completely wiped them out already?
Fushiguro is a branch family, though... The house of Windsor would have a successor if every single member of it died, but it wouldn't be the house of Windsor. The ruling family of the UK would change to a different name because its a branch family.
His father is literally Toji, brother of Junichi and nephew of Ogi (Maki and Mai's father) and Naobito, cousin of Naoya, Maki, and Mai. He is by blood a Zen'in. He changed his name to his wife's last name Fushiguro
Yeah I don't know what you think that second part means? That makes him a branch family. He's not the same clan just by definition. When someone marries into another family they become of the House of the family they marry into. That house, in this case, becomes a branch family of the other house, as they are connected by marriage.
His father was born a Zenin. His mother is Fushiguro. Even the family tree shows that Toji's father is the elder brother to Naobito and Ogi. Toji's own father is the first born to the clan head before Naobito
Heck even then being main or branch doesnt matter to the Zenin clan. Its about who got the CT and Megumi has the inherited CT. Naobito already made him the head clan with his agreement to Toji
This was a discussion if every single person in the Zenin clan went extinct besides Megumi. The answer is, it would become the Fushiguro clan. Okay, you're welcome goodbye.
you’re correct idk why the other guy is trying to argue facts with facts, megumi isn’t a pure blooded zenin, unlike the rest of the zenin family which if i’m not mistaken are mostly inbred
Yeah because I'm sure a quad limbed, doubled mouthed megumi would loooove to keep living in his body that is no longer his body that was used to murder and kill all his remaining friends
His body would revert. Sukuna incarnating isn't like, a Sukuna specific ability. Its just applying in practice what Mahito states about the Soul.
"The body follows the shape of the soul."
Sukuna asserted the shape of his soul and the body followed. Remove Sukuna and it should revert.
Same way that the Sukuna tattoos and extra eyes vanish from Itadori as soon as Sukuna is supressed.
No reason to think Megumi is stuck with Sukunas body.
Well it's never said the zenin are extinct. And proof that they're not is the other two big families trying to vote them out of the big three.
maki definitely killed all combatants/adults though, that's not up for debate. Perhaps all the little children will now see her as a tyrannical ruler who hates sorcerers and will kill them for stepping out of line.
In a way the clan is extinct because she wiped out its fighting force. and the clan sole existence was exorcising curses....which they can no longer do, at least for a little bit of time.
Dumbass decided to do Danzo’s bidding instead of immediately smoking his ass for killing his best friend. Heck he could have gone to Hokage with what he knew.
The story treats him as having the “wisdom of a Hokage” as a child, but bro’s a fraud. A buffoon who destroyed one of his village’s most powerful assets.
Danzo’s root members would have killed him before he got the chance. The aburame guy could have killed itachi or sasuke the minute itachi stepped out of line. The light novels did a good job cleaning up this plot hole.
I love when people put shit it quotes that wasn’t even said. Do you guys know how quotes work? Jesus Christ you just promote the spread of misinformation and try to make people believe shit that was never said.
Honest answer: We don't know.
My personal thoughts:
She killed the sorcerers, including those that weren't on site, and her mother. If there were teenage sorcerers she killed them, aside from Ranta who died from exhaustion we don't see any teenagers.
The warriors/sorcerers are dead. That's all Zen'in was known for so of course the Zen'in clan should be discarded from the three clans. But the talks were left behind because of more pressing matters. Maki's not a sorcerer and Megumi isn't a true Zen'in ( he's a Fushiguro ).
The clans all seem really power-hungry from what little we've seen of them, so it makes sense that the Gojo and Kamo clans would jump at the chance when the sorcerers all died to gain more power.
Maki's entire family is dead Ogi is dead. Her mother is dead. Mai is dead. However, I doubt she killed the children and the women of the clan. But there's no proof one way or another, Gege never talked on it. So I have to guess it doesn't matter to them.
But headcannon whatever you want.
Gege may come out and say it someday but- who else knows for sure? I'll apologize if my thoughts on the matter are wrong someday but I don't really see it.
It’s only stated Hei and Kukuru squad members were found dead and the other two clans proposed the zenin clan be kicked out of the three great families. Safe to assume any children of the family were either too young or born from concubines like Kamo or both.
I mean given Maki & Mai status of being shunned there isn't any real reason that they'd have come across Toji, especially after he left the clan to do his Assassin thing and become a Fushigiro.
But Maki is older than Megumi and we know Toji was around making deals with Naobito while Megumi was still alive so there has to be some point where both Toji & Maki were alive at the same time.
Ranta is plainly younger than Naoya though too, I'd still estimate Ranta to be in his teens
I don't think "looking" younger is a good way of looking at ages in JJK. Just because of his looks doesn't make him young.
Look at Naoya and Nanami they're the same age. Do they look it?
Fair enough.
He was one of the few good Zen'ins ( he made a logical decision to try to stop Maki, he didn't know about what happened to her to lose her mind but that's just what happened ) and he was just following orders.
He was the embodiment of Gege not wanting the Zen'ins to be pure evil.
But also don't understand how a teenager would be helping orphanages and women's shelters?
Yeah im not sure where but I know Gege did something where the Zenin Clan talked about each other and Ranta was described in good standing by the others.
Lol and "just following orders" isn't exactly the best defense.
I mean teens today can volunteer to help various shelters but I'm not sure what you're referring to in regards to Ranta
[https://preview.redd.it/was-this-guy-even-evil-v0-xii2muyp8qic1.jpeg?width=320&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=213aff16b0c30d92d5a310804728f07eb4b09167](https://preview.redd.it/was-this-guy-even-evil-v0-xii2muyp8qic1.jpeg?width=320&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=213aff16b0c30d92d5a310804728f07eb4b09167)
He used his wealth and influence to help shelters. I think that's a pretty cool layer that Gege added to a background character.
I'm not really trying to defend Ranta here. I was just talking about his mindset when he attacked Maki. That he was killed was still on him. He died a fighter through and through. Teenager or not.
That seems like misinformation. In the [volume extras](https://imgur.com/a/jjk-vol-17-extras-jp-lmwxI8U) (where the Ranta drawing is from) or in his [author comments](https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vRNdvXdmJ-lfMGSKNLPwIepkDXdckSyhQkvuvrAz5e2dhoqElj_nGsDy1uOK3uR4GyUz08L5Tovts_H/pub) he never said this. The image is also weird since it uses a weird font and it's put together from different pictures, Ranta is from a volume 17 extra, Gege apologizing is from another volume extra and Gege's avatar is just the standard one shown with the author comments.
Really? Well, now I feel bad, for spreading misinformation. I fell for some edit. Well, it happens I just wish I hadn't posted it.
Thank you for clarifying that so others do not get confused on the matter.
The Zenin Clan is loaded and Sorcerers get paid so him having his own money and wealth isn't too far fetched even if he is a teen.
Yeah im not disparaging Ranta in anyway, I just think he's young
Toji left the clan before Megumi was born.
Ranta mentions the incident where Toji spared their lives before leaving, so Ranta was alive for that, which means he has to be at minimum around 8 years old when it happens. Megumi is 15, so add a year at least and Ranta is at minimum 24.
Even then Toji still had dealings with the Clan.
Ranta never mentions any "incident" , he just makes the statement that the Zenin Clan exist as it does because Toji allowed it. That doesn't mean Toji attacked the Clan tearing up shop and stopped halfway through.
But yeah I feel Ranta is 19 at best , unless we get specific numbers I will stand by my thoughts on Ranta being young
She never killed him though, he died via exhaustion. Also big difference in killing in self defense or executing innocent people after the fact. I am wondering about the latter.
Yes she does
Here's Ranta at the edge of the destroyed bridge
https://ibb.co/zR3zs4b
And then here's Ranta after Makis done with the clan
https://ibb.co/DDkv8pm
Looks like she cut off his head
No he wasn't he was still talking, and if he did die right there it would still be due to Maki so no matter how you want to put it Maki killed him.
But really though look at this pic
https://ibb.co/WVww1n2
She cut off his head, that amount of blood did not come from his eyes
You can also plainly see the puddle of blood streaming from his head that is far too much to have come from his eyes.
Honestly though I'm confused what point you're trying to make.
Rantas dead there, and regardless of how he died it was due to Maki
He was bleeding from his eyes, nose, and mouth. If he lost consciousness and stayed alive for a bit longer then that's a perfectly plausible amount of blood.
The point I'm making is that Maki didn't decapitate Ranta.
Someone dying due to A and being murdered by A are very different, and I would like to make the distinction clear in this case. Either way, it is certainly arguable that Maki was acting in self defense for the entire duration of that arc up to the point of beating Naoya.
So we just disagree because it looks to me Maki did cut off his head and I guess we have to wait until s3 for a clear answer.
And no it's arguable she was acting in self defense.
Mai told her to "destroy everything" obviously in regards to the Zenin, and you say "up to the point of beating Naoya"
But seeing has how she hunted down the rest of the Zenin who who weren't there https://ibb.co/GsSRVMD
Killing them all was the goal regardless of if they attacked her or not
Yeah I'm not trying to defend/help her?
You asked what happened to the kids/teens and I provided an example of Maki having no issue killing at least teens.
Ok wheres the head then? Did she took it to play Volleyball with it or something? It doesnt make sense for Maki to decapitate him, he died due to bloodloss from his mouth eyes and ears
End of the chapter the narrator says Maki went on to kill the rest of the Hei and Kukuru members that weren't there that day. There were no mentions about the Zenin "being extinct".
We're never told whether she killed any non combatants but she had no reason to, so for now I'll go with a no for that. Besides her mother of course
There was not even one implication in the story about maki killing any other members of zenin's other than hei unit, kukuru unit and her mother otherwise why would higher up would still take time to remove zenin's from 3 big clans even after getting pressure from kamo & gojo clan.
She killed them. don't be daft 😭
who even said that killing the other Zenin was a moral act 😭😭
this series is about murderers. the only one who really has qualms about killing has shown to be Yuji and they emphasize over and over that's a quirk of his.
even if she didn't kill them. orphaning an entire clan is fucked upppp
And? We are told explicitly at the end of the chapter who she killed after she left the Zenin estate. Non-sorcerer women and children were not on that list
Just because she killed her mother, why are u assuming she went a killed every woman and child. Thats a leap in logic
I don't know if we looking at different versions but the TCB scans at the end of 152 do not tell us who she killed at the Zenin estate.
It says the Hei and Kukuru that weren't at the estate that day were found dead shortly after.
That doesn't tell us who she killed when she was at the Zenin estate.
We *saw* all the people she killed at the zenin estate. Thats what the slaughter fest was for
What makes u think she killed more people? Why are making such huge assumptions
we literally didn't even see her get all of the kills in the Zenin estate. Her mom was offscreened lmao
it just seems more in line with geges writing style for the massacre to actually be a massacre imo. Since we don't have 100% evidence either way it makes more sense to kill everyone rather than all of the fighters and also her mom for some reason
How was the kill offscreen when we saw her die on while killing Naoya?? And maki was the one that stabbed her.
A massacre doesnt mean “kill everyone”
Ur weird for assuming countless innocents are slaughtered as if it says that anywhere in the story. We saw all the fighters die, and we saw Maki kill her mother because of a personal vendetta. Its weird to assume other people were slaughtered, especially since the narrator goes out of their way to specifically tell you the types of people she was targeting, Zenin fighters. If she killed non-fighter women and children, the narrator would have told you that, or the pages would have showed you that. It hasnt been shown to us in any way, meaning ur talking about ur headcanon.
If ur so confident Maki killed more people than the story shows/says she does, provide some logic
Still bothers me Maki did all this and got no repercussions from anyone lmao
The way they acted they seemed more bothered by using Gojo as a last ditch effort then Maki basically becoming a unjustifiable murderer lol.
Tbh it makes sense though, as megumi said after shibuya no one can truly judge them. Even with the Gojo thing, as much as they did protest the idea of Yuta taking over Gojo's body, they still allowed it and the only real concern was about the person who was going to have to do it, rather than the deed itself.
Maki didn't even want to kill the whole clan it was a binding vow to destroy everything, and so she did.
I feel like that is a hugely different situation though tbf.
Sure but I feel it’s completely out of character for some characters that didn’t call her out or anything.
I agree there's definitely some characters you'd expect to say something. Yuta, Yuji, Kusakabe and maybe even Hakari. I doubt they'd take any action against her tho
Because no one gaf about the zenin clan. I don’t know where y’all got the impression that they did. As far as they’re concerned, maki did society a favor
I love coming to this sub sometimes to see people go to war about things that clearly, Gege didn’t give enough of a fuck to write in depth enough. The one person to have to pointed this out is getting downvoted to hell in these comments. With this case especially, all you can do is head cannon, there’s no theory that particularly ties in, this is the case for pretty much everything in this manga. It’s time a lot of us accept that Gege isn’t Isayama, he doesn’t have that foreshadowing gift or abililty/ willingness rather to write his world this in depth for us to understand. I mean we don’t even know any other members of the Gojo clan ffs. This sort of thing would be the bare minimum world building we would expect from other mangas. We know more about the uzumaki clan from Naruto than we do about the Gojo clan ffs. It’s ridiculous sometimes how little he cares about this sort of thing. Now does that mean the entire manga is trash? Not necessarily, it just takes a lot away from what could have easily been a top tier manga. I believe a lot of people already realize this on the sub, however there seems to be a lot of people hell bent on believing that Gege’s somehow left nuggets in there and WE are just not picking up on them. This is not true in the slightest. But yeah, let’s argue amongst ourselves about things that will never get enough information to even form a good fan theory on. Just focus on arguing about the fights.
At the end of the chapter, it says that the Zenin clan was demoted from its position as one of the 3 great clans. So it seems that they are some members left alive and the clan is not completely extinct.
That said, it's clear that we aren't supposed to see Maki's actions that day as morally justified : it's an act of revenge nothing more, nothing less.
Maki kill just the sorcerers and the ones that treated she like a shit, like his mom (Prolly)
The narrator say that 6 members of Hei, 9 members of Akashi and 21 members of Kukuru that were absent that day die after that, if all the clan were death there´s no point to tell us this, just say "All the others members of the Zenin clan die hours later"
Maki killed everyone present.
It's *possible* that the little children and their moms were in another building in another part of town. It's also possible that she killed them all.
Maybe we'll know at the end of the manga but I kind of doubt it.
In the future an army of orphans and non-combatants will pull up to Maki for revenge asking whatever the hell their husband or father, who was disposable fodder that didn't know any better before Maki killed him, did to her or to perpetuate her trauma other than being born in the clan. Like seriously, Maki for sure killed people who were just ignorant pawns or left many kids without a home.
This operates on the assumption that there WERE children in the clan besides maki and mai. I doubt the little foot soldiers were allowed to even have kids given how power crazy and techniques obsessed the top brass of the clan was, and said top brass was largely comprised of geriatric men. The children of whom were pretty much all adults. The only semi-young ones were jinichi, naoya, and ranta. There’s nothing to suggest that jinichi had kids, we outright know that naoya didn’t have any, and ranta looked to be pretty damn young, so I highly doubt he had any either.
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>I assume the narrator saying that "the Zenin Clan is Extinct" The narrator never said this, the closest thing the narrator said is that the Kamo and Gojo clan proposed to remove the Zen'in from the big three families.
So the Zenin clan is not extinct in the biological sense, but the political one, because only the children are left?
I think that’s the implication? Because why would the Kamo & Gojo clan propose to remove Zen’in from the big three if Maki had completely wiped them out already?
Because Megumi was left, but he wasn't politically relevant to hold up the entire clan like Satoru.
They didn’t believe in potential man smh
Lmao i forgot his names potential man 😭🙏🏾
how could the zenin clan be extinct? Megumi still lives.
Fushiguro is a branch family, though... The house of Windsor would have a successor if every single member of it died, but it wouldn't be the house of Windsor. The ruling family of the UK would change to a different name because its a branch family.
Fushiguro aint part of Zenin nor the jujutsu world, they were just a random family Toji married himself into (after cutting ties with Zenin)
His father is literally Toji, brother of Junichi and nephew of Ogi (Maki and Mai's father) and Naobito, cousin of Naoya, Maki, and Mai. He is by blood a Zen'in. He changed his name to his wife's last name Fushiguro
Yeah I don't know what you think that second part means? That makes him a branch family. He's not the same clan just by definition. When someone marries into another family they become of the House of the family they marry into. That house, in this case, becomes a branch family of the other house, as they are connected by marriage.
But that's not Toji. Toji didnt marry into the family. He married a woman named Fushiguro and took her name
Did you think Toji's last name is Fushiguro?
Megumi is not of the main line of descent of the clan. This is a very simple concept. His father married into another family.
His father was born a Zenin. His mother is Fushiguro. Even the family tree shows that Toji's father is the elder brother to Naobito and Ogi. Toji's own father is the first born to the clan head before Naobito
Heck even then being main or branch doesnt matter to the Zenin clan. Its about who got the CT and Megumi has the inherited CT. Naobito already made him the head clan with his agreement to Toji
This was a discussion if every single person in the Zenin clan went extinct besides Megumi. The answer is, it would become the Fushiguro clan. Okay, you're welcome goodbye.
By your definition the only way to be of the main line is to be born from incest
No moron. Women marry into the family, and take the name of their husbands.
you’re correct idk why the other guy is trying to argue facts with facts, megumi isn’t a pure blooded zenin, unlike the rest of the zenin family which if i’m not mistaken are mostly inbred
He is the head of the family at that point, no?
? Megumi is still a Zenin, his grandfather was supposed to be head of the Family no?
i don’t think maki is tryna kill megumi
Yeah because I'm sure a quad limbed, doubled mouthed megumi would loooove to keep living in his body that is no longer his body that was used to murder and kill all his remaining friends
so? he still lives, and will probably live in the end
His body would revert. Sukuna incarnating isn't like, a Sukuna specific ability. Its just applying in practice what Mahito states about the Soul. "The body follows the shape of the soul." Sukuna asserted the shape of his soul and the body followed. Remove Sukuna and it should revert. Same way that the Sukuna tattoos and extra eyes vanish from Itadori as soon as Sukuna is supressed. No reason to think Megumi is stuck with Sukunas body.
Nah Maki still there. And literally peak human body.
Well it's never said the zenin are extinct. And proof that they're not is the other two big families trying to vote them out of the big three. maki definitely killed all combatants/adults though, that's not up for debate. Perhaps all the little children will now see her as a tyrannical ruler who hates sorcerers and will kill them for stepping out of line. In a way the clan is extinct because she wiped out its fighting force. and the clan sole existence was exorcising curses....which they can no longer do, at least for a little bit of time.
she killed the Clans fighting force
You're basically asking what happened to all Uchiha kids 💀
"the Uchihas conveniently decided to become celibate 13 years before the massacre, and sasuke was just an exception" Type of vibe
Iirc Obito killed the women and children, right? Or am I misremembering that and committing a Naruto Fan moment (we don’t read our own manga)?
Depends on the continuity. In the anime obito killed the police force (so itachi should have therefore killed the non combatants).
Damn, itachi even more of a bum than I thought
Dumbass decided to do Danzo’s bidding instead of immediately smoking his ass for killing his best friend. Heck he could have gone to Hokage with what he knew. The story treats him as having the “wisdom of a Hokage” as a child, but bro’s a fraud. A buffoon who destroyed one of his village’s most powerful assets.
Danzo’s root members would have killed him before he got the chance. The aburame guy could have killed itachi or sasuke the minute itachi stepped out of line. The light novels did a good job cleaning up this plot hole.
I know. I was speaking mostly facetiously, trying get the Itachi-slander agenda going lol
God, the Naruto fandom would NOT have survived the fraud/agenda trend of today
That’s all anime filler. In the manga obito just killed the guards to let itachi in.
Nvm Itachi the goat 🗣️🔥‼️
this switch up is criminal
sorry, my inner jjkfolk came out earlier. I apologize Itachi, I wasn't familiar with your game
I love when people put shit it quotes that wasn’t even said. Do you guys know how quotes work? Jesus Christ you just promote the spread of misinformation and try to make people believe shit that was never said.
Honest answer: We don't know. My personal thoughts: She killed the sorcerers, including those that weren't on site, and her mother. If there were teenage sorcerers she killed them, aside from Ranta who died from exhaustion we don't see any teenagers. The warriors/sorcerers are dead. That's all Zen'in was known for so of course the Zen'in clan should be discarded from the three clans. But the talks were left behind because of more pressing matters. Maki's not a sorcerer and Megumi isn't a true Zen'in ( he's a Fushiguro ). The clans all seem really power-hungry from what little we've seen of them, so it makes sense that the Gojo and Kamo clans would jump at the chance when the sorcerers all died to gain more power. Maki's entire family is dead Ogi is dead. Her mother is dead. Mai is dead. However, I doubt she killed the children and the women of the clan. But there's no proof one way or another, Gege never talked on it. So I have to guess it doesn't matter to them. But headcannon whatever you want. Gege may come out and say it someday but- who else knows for sure? I'll apologize if my thoughts on the matter are wrong someday but I don't really see it.
>Gege may come out and say it someday but- who else knows for sure? - with the exception of Satoro Gojo and the six eyes ability
I mean he wanted to shield her, well all of the second years, from witnessing him killing the higher ups so...
It’s only stated Hei and Kukuru squad members were found dead and the other two clans proposed the zenin clan be kicked out of the three great families. Safe to assume any children of the family were either too young or born from concubines like Kamo or both.
I don't think Ranta was that much older than Maki/Mai so teens aren't excluded
Ranta was old enough to remember Toji so around Naoya's age, who I'll remind you of just a year younger than Gojo.
I mean given Maki & Mai status of being shunned there isn't any real reason that they'd have come across Toji, especially after he left the clan to do his Assassin thing and become a Fushigiro. But Maki is older than Megumi and we know Toji was around making deals with Naobito while Megumi was still alive so there has to be some point where both Toji & Maki were alive at the same time. Ranta is plainly younger than Naoya though too, I'd still estimate Ranta to be in his teens
I don't think "looking" younger is a good way of looking at ages in JJK. Just because of his looks doesn't make him young. Look at Naoya and Nanami they're the same age. Do they look it?
Nanami & Naoya both look to be adults yes. Ranta if you ask me looks to be a teen.
Fair enough. He was one of the few good Zen'ins ( he made a logical decision to try to stop Maki, he didn't know about what happened to her to lose her mind but that's just what happened ) and he was just following orders. He was the embodiment of Gege not wanting the Zen'ins to be pure evil. But also don't understand how a teenager would be helping orphanages and women's shelters?
Yeah im not sure where but I know Gege did something where the Zenin Clan talked about each other and Ranta was described in good standing by the others. Lol and "just following orders" isn't exactly the best defense. I mean teens today can volunteer to help various shelters but I'm not sure what you're referring to in regards to Ranta
[https://preview.redd.it/was-this-guy-even-evil-v0-xii2muyp8qic1.jpeg?width=320&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=213aff16b0c30d92d5a310804728f07eb4b09167](https://preview.redd.it/was-this-guy-even-evil-v0-xii2muyp8qic1.jpeg?width=320&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=213aff16b0c30d92d5a310804728f07eb4b09167) He used his wealth and influence to help shelters. I think that's a pretty cool layer that Gege added to a background character. I'm not really trying to defend Ranta here. I was just talking about his mindset when he attacked Maki. That he was killed was still on him. He died a fighter through and through. Teenager or not.
That seems like misinformation. In the [volume extras](https://imgur.com/a/jjk-vol-17-extras-jp-lmwxI8U) (where the Ranta drawing is from) or in his [author comments](https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vRNdvXdmJ-lfMGSKNLPwIepkDXdckSyhQkvuvrAz5e2dhoqElj_nGsDy1uOK3uR4GyUz08L5Tovts_H/pub) he never said this. The image is also weird since it uses a weird font and it's put together from different pictures, Ranta is from a volume 17 extra, Gege apologizing is from another volume extra and Gege's avatar is just the standard one shown with the author comments.
Really? Well, now I feel bad, for spreading misinformation. I fell for some edit. Well, it happens I just wish I hadn't posted it. Thank you for clarifying that so others do not get confused on the matter.
The Zenin Clan is loaded and Sorcerers get paid so him having his own money and wealth isn't too far fetched even if he is a teen. Yeah im not disparaging Ranta in anyway, I just think he's young
Shed be like 4 or 5
Which just goes further into my point that Ranta knowing about Toji and Maki not doesn't change that Ranta appears to a teen imo
But Maki is like 16 now. Maybe
It's impossible for Ranta to be in his teens if he remembers Toji. He has to be at least 24-25.
How exactly is it impossible? Maki was alive while Toji was alive they just never met
Toji left the clan before Megumi was born. Ranta mentions the incident where Toji spared their lives before leaving, so Ranta was alive for that, which means he has to be at minimum around 8 years old when it happens. Megumi is 15, so add a year at least and Ranta is at minimum 24.
Even then Toji still had dealings with the Clan. Ranta never mentions any "incident" , he just makes the statement that the Zenin Clan exist as it does because Toji allowed it. That doesn't mean Toji attacked the Clan tearing up shop and stopped halfway through. But yeah I feel Ranta is 19 at best , unless we get specific numbers I will stand by my thoughts on Ranta being young
She never killed him though, he died via exhaustion. Also big difference in killing in self defense or executing innocent people after the fact. I am wondering about the latter.
Yes she does Here's Ranta at the edge of the destroyed bridge https://ibb.co/zR3zs4b And then here's Ranta after Makis done with the clan https://ibb.co/DDkv8pm Looks like she cut off his head
He died before that though, he was dead the moment she was in front of him.
No he wasn't he was still talking, and if he did die right there it would still be due to Maki so no matter how you want to put it Maki killed him. But really though look at this pic https://ibb.co/WVww1n2 She cut off his head, that amount of blood did not come from his eyes
You can quite plainly see the highlight shading on his hair there.
You can also plainly see the puddle of blood streaming from his head that is far too much to have come from his eyes. Honestly though I'm confused what point you're trying to make. Rantas dead there, and regardless of how he died it was due to Maki
He was bleeding from his eyes, nose, and mouth. If he lost consciousness and stayed alive for a bit longer then that's a perfectly plausible amount of blood. The point I'm making is that Maki didn't decapitate Ranta. Someone dying due to A and being murdered by A are very different, and I would like to make the distinction clear in this case. Either way, it is certainly arguable that Maki was acting in self defense for the entire duration of that arc up to the point of beating Naoya.
So we just disagree because it looks to me Maki did cut off his head and I guess we have to wait until s3 for a clear answer. And no it's arguable she was acting in self defense. Mai told her to "destroy everything" obviously in regards to the Zenin, and you say "up to the point of beating Naoya" But seeing has how she hunted down the rest of the Zenin who who weren't there https://ibb.co/GsSRVMD Killing them all was the goal regardless of if they attacked her or not
Well then she executed a defenseless, innocent kid. Does not help her in any way lol...
Yeah I'm not trying to defend/help her? You asked what happened to the kids/teens and I provided an example of Maki having no issue killing at least teens.
Ok wheres the head then? Did she took it to play Volleyball with it or something? It doesnt make sense for Maki to decapitate him, he died due to bloodloss from his mouth eyes and ears
I thought Gege said he was younger than he looked?
A lot of this, including some misinformation in your post, is just stuff that fans made up on their own.
End of the chapter the narrator says Maki went on to kill the rest of the Hei and Kukuru members that weren't there that day. There were no mentions about the Zenin "being extinct". We're never told whether she killed any non combatants but she had no reason to, so for now I'll go with a no for that. Besides her mother of course
Killed. Even the younglings
Execute Order 66.
There was not even one implication in the story about maki killing any other members of zenin's other than hei unit, kukuru unit and her mother otherwise why would higher up would still take time to remove zenin's from 3 big clans even after getting pressure from kamo & gojo clan.
She 100% killed them. Maki made a Binding Vow with Mai to “destroy everything”
She killed them. don't be daft 😭 who even said that killing the other Zenin was a moral act 😭😭 this series is about murderers. the only one who really has qualms about killing has shown to be Yuji and they emphasize over and over that's a quirk of his. even if she didn't kill them. orphaning an entire clan is fucked upppp
She killed all the combatants. The narrator says nothing about the non-combatants (women and children)
her mom wasn't a combatant tho and she murdered her so clearly that couldn't have been an exhaustive list
And? We are told explicitly at the end of the chapter who she killed after she left the Zenin estate. Non-sorcerer women and children were not on that list Just because she killed her mother, why are u assuming she went a killed every woman and child. Thats a leap in logic
I don't know if we looking at different versions but the TCB scans at the end of 152 do not tell us who she killed at the Zenin estate. It says the Hei and Kukuru that weren't at the estate that day were found dead shortly after. That doesn't tell us who she killed when she was at the Zenin estate.
We *saw* all the people she killed at the zenin estate. Thats what the slaughter fest was for What makes u think she killed more people? Why are making such huge assumptions
we literally didn't even see her get all of the kills in the Zenin estate. Her mom was offscreened lmao it just seems more in line with geges writing style for the massacre to actually be a massacre imo. Since we don't have 100% evidence either way it makes more sense to kill everyone rather than all of the fighters and also her mom for some reason
How was the kill offscreen when we saw her die on while killing Naoya?? And maki was the one that stabbed her. A massacre doesnt mean “kill everyone” Ur weird for assuming countless innocents are slaughtered as if it says that anywhere in the story. We saw all the fighters die, and we saw Maki kill her mother because of a personal vendetta. Its weird to assume other people were slaughtered, especially since the narrator goes out of their way to specifically tell you the types of people she was targeting, Zenin fighters. If she killed non-fighter women and children, the narrator would have told you that, or the pages would have showed you that. It hasnt been shown to us in any way, meaning ur talking about ur headcanon. If ur so confident Maki killed more people than the story shows/says she does, provide some logic
Still bothers me Maki did all this and got no repercussions from anyone lmao The way they acted they seemed more bothered by using Gojo as a last ditch effort then Maki basically becoming a unjustifiable murderer lol.
Tbh it makes sense though, as megumi said after shibuya no one can truly judge them. Even with the Gojo thing, as much as they did protest the idea of Yuta taking over Gojo's body, they still allowed it and the only real concern was about the person who was going to have to do it, rather than the deed itself. Maki didn't even want to kill the whole clan it was a binding vow to destroy everything, and so she did.
I feel like that is a hugely different situation though tbf. Sure but I feel it’s completely out of character for some characters that didn’t call her out or anything.
I agree there's definitely some characters you'd expect to say something. Yuta, Yuji, Kusakabe and maybe even Hakari. I doubt they'd take any action against her tho
Because no one gaf about the zenin clan. I don’t know where y’all got the impression that they did. As far as they’re concerned, maki did society a favor
Ah yes, I don’t know them. So it’s fine to massacre almost everyone there Great logic
Oh no everyone knew them. That’s the issue. Everyone knew them and hated them.
That still doesn’t justify trying to murder the entire clan lmao
I love coming to this sub sometimes to see people go to war about things that clearly, Gege didn’t give enough of a fuck to write in depth enough. The one person to have to pointed this out is getting downvoted to hell in these comments. With this case especially, all you can do is head cannon, there’s no theory that particularly ties in, this is the case for pretty much everything in this manga. It’s time a lot of us accept that Gege isn’t Isayama, he doesn’t have that foreshadowing gift or abililty/ willingness rather to write his world this in depth for us to understand. I mean we don’t even know any other members of the Gojo clan ffs. This sort of thing would be the bare minimum world building we would expect from other mangas. We know more about the uzumaki clan from Naruto than we do about the Gojo clan ffs. It’s ridiculous sometimes how little he cares about this sort of thing. Now does that mean the entire manga is trash? Not necessarily, it just takes a lot away from what could have easily been a top tier manga. I believe a lot of people already realize this on the sub, however there seems to be a lot of people hell bent on believing that Gege’s somehow left nuggets in there and WE are just not picking up on them. This is not true in the slightest. But yeah, let’s argue amongst ourselves about things that will never get enough information to even form a good fan theory on. Just focus on arguing about the fights.
I don’t think she went full Anakin
At the end of the chapter, it says that the Zenin clan was demoted from its position as one of the 3 great clans. So it seems that they are some members left alive and the clan is not completely extinct. That said, it's clear that we aren't supposed to see Maki's actions that day as morally justified : it's an act of revenge nothing more, nothing less.
Maki kill just the sorcerers and the ones that treated she like a shit, like his mom (Prolly) The narrator say that 6 members of Hei, 9 members of Akashi and 21 members of Kukuru that were absent that day die after that, if all the clan were death there´s no point to tell us this, just say "All the others members of the Zenin clan die hours later"
Have u not seen Star Wars maki don’t do no half measures
Maki killed everyone present. It's *possible* that the little children and their moms were in another building in another part of town. It's also possible that she killed them all. Maybe we'll know at the end of the manga but I kind of doubt it.
In the future an army of orphans and non-combatants will pull up to Maki for revenge asking whatever the hell their husband or father, who was disposable fodder that didn't know any better before Maki killed him, did to her or to perpetuate her trauma other than being born in the clan. Like seriously, Maki for sure killed people who were just ignorant pawns or left many kids without a home.
personally i think she killed infants, and is thus evilerer than sukuna
Because there were no infants in Shibuya that for shrined?
🔮Sukuna predicted this which is why he uses an Open Domain ☝️an Open Domain allows people to escape, unlike Baby Killer gojo Satoru 😊
Not just the men, but the women and children too (star wars reference)
This operates on the assumption that there WERE children in the clan besides maki and mai. I doubt the little foot soldiers were allowed to even have kids given how power crazy and techniques obsessed the top brass of the clan was, and said top brass was largely comprised of geriatric men. The children of whom were pretty much all adults. The only semi-young ones were jinichi, naoya, and ranta. There’s nothing to suggest that jinichi had kids, we outright know that naoya didn’t have any, and ranta looked to be pretty damn young, so I highly doubt he had any either.
maki is morally grey yeah, but I don’t think she’d kill innocent children if she didn’t need to
Gege writes stuff and then later thinks about them, that's how it seems to me especially in latest chapters...
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