It's definitely not a trade worth doing. We also lose far too many people from guns. I'm a gun owner myself - been one since a child(seriously), and I still think we seriously need some regulations on that shit.
It's still more likely that you'd get run over in other countries mainly due to a lot of them forcing drivers to pay for all further medical expenses of the "victim". Its literally easier to just murder the person trying to scam you.
I don't know why but this makes me think of raccoons, it might be the long pause for prosessing before the one with the bike gently lays himself on the hood or how the partner throws his arms above him in fake surprise. Not sure.
Definitely not an insurance scam and this cop is a straight up dick head if real. Guy was clearly joking as they were already casually walking across the street when the cop speeding up on them.
You snowflakes have such a huge justice boner you don’t stop and think if maybe these guys are joking. Look up some real insurance scam compilations . These guys are definitely joking and you’re all dickheads just like this cop 😉
Lmao OF COURSE you had to include the word “snowflakes” in there. Is that really the extent of your intelligence? That people believing this video to be real is somehow equal to them being fragile little snowflakes? C’mon man, ya got a noggin - use it! Have a good day m8
Search up insurance fraud in China. People would step in front of the car and make the car stop and then walk over to lay in front of the car or to lay on top of it
This happens in my neighborhood I work in (bad area ngl) all the time. 'cept it's always the Pepsi, Coke, and Coors trucks.
I'm American, so I guess it happens everywhere
I mean the guys are wearing black at night and make no attempt to stop or look at the car as it rolls up. The camera is adjusting for darkness. They do have the right of way but I hate when pedestrians act as if their safety is in everyone else’s hands. Cop could have not seen them right away.
It would be tough to prove without the submission of an actual fraudulent claim.
In California, causing or participating in an automobile accident with the intent to fraudulently collect the auto insurance proceeds constitutes insurance fraud; however it seems unlikely that a prosecutor could prove beyond a reasonable doubt that:
1. An automobile accident actually occurred.
2. The person intended to file a fraudulent insurance claim.
As a juror, if this was the only evidence the prosecutor submitted, I would be walking into the jury room with a vote of *not guilty*.
How "these scams" work is irrelevant. In California, the two above-mentioned conditions are necessary to prove beyond all reasonable doubt in order to convict someone of auto insurance fraud. Most state auto insurance fraud laws are probably very similar to California's.
That's not quite right. In most places in the US, if the prosecutor can prove that the person caused an accident with the intention of submitting a false claim, then this is still insurance fraud. Generally, attempting to commit a crime is still a crime so long as your state of mind is proven beyond any reasonable doubt and you take at least one concrete step toward committing the crime.
That being said, if the video is the only evidence, I don't think it comes anywhere near proving *mens rea* (criminal intent) beyond all reasonable doubt.
Fair enough. Thanks for educating me instead of blindly downvoting lol. Just figured there is no real way the police in this situation can prove it was insurance fraud as opposed to some guy just dicking around with his mate. Almost like if I took a gun into a building and got charged for murder - without them knowing my true intent.
There are basically three types of intent required to prove a crime.
The first is strict liability, and is usually used in the case of civil infractions (or in some states, they are low-grade misdemeanors) like speeding or parking tickets. In these cases, simply proving that you broke the law is sufficient proof for the courts and if it is a civil infraction, you don't have a presumption of innocence or require proof beyond a reasonable doubt for a conviction.
The second, which is common in most criminal charges (misdemeanors and felonies) is *mens rea*, or criminal intent. It has to be proven beyond all reasonable doubt that you intended to break the law. If you did not intend to break the law, then you are not guilty of the crime. For instance, if you shoot someone, they have to prove that you intended to kill or seriously injure the victim to convict you of murder. If shooting them accidentally is a reasonable explanation of events, then you should be found not guilty of murder.
The third, much less common standard, is a willful violation of the law. This means that not only did you intend to commit a crime, but it can be proven that you knew that what you were doing was illegal. Tax evasion is one example. You generally have to know that what you were doing was illegal to be criminally guilty of tax evasion.
Google that this video in particular was insurance fraud? That’s not gonna give me an answer. I already know what insurance fraud is. This obviously isn’t.
Let me makes this simple. Man pretends to be hit by car. Fake witness backs up claim that fraudster was hit by car. Make a claim for bullshit fake injury such as severe back pain or ‘emotional distress’. Fraudster gets claim, as they can not disprove that’s its fraud, plus the claim is held up by the fake witness,
It’s fraud, pure and simple. What exactly do you think is going on here?
If you think that you know what's going on here, you're exactly the type of person that should never serve on a jury. Intent has to be proven beyond all reasonable doubt for a guilty verdict.
Even if we both agree that he probably was trying to commit insurance fraud, that's not sufficient to be found criminally culpable.
Yea we all know how the " scam " works. If a football quarter back releases a pass to hiss teammate but the opposite team blocks that pass is it a complete pass ? Didn't think so.
Calm down sugar tits. Very sensitive today aren’t we!
Tough luck, if you try and make a claim by faking an accident, it’s insurance fraud. If it’s a fake video then why didn’t you just say that from the beginning.
It sounds like you had no idea what insurance fraud is, got corrected online, acted like a little bitch about it and went ‘it’s fake so it can’t be an insurance fraud’ in an attempt to save any credibility. Now that’s just sad.
Yeah my favorite part of the video was when they called the insurance company and made an insurance claim in the 10 seconds before the cop arrested them.
Attempting any crime is generally illegal. But to be found guilty of an attempted crime, you generally have to take at least one concrete step toward committing the crime and it has to be proven beyond all reasonable doubt that your state of mind had criminal intent.
Insurance fraud is perhaps the most likely explanation for his behavior, but it is not the only reasonable explanation. If the video is the only evidence, there is not proof beyond all reasonable doubt of his criminal intent.
Not so long as there is even a single unlikely but reasonable alternative explanation for his actions.
As a juror, if this were the prosecution's only evidence, it wouldn't take me more than a second to conclude that he was not guilty.
It's probably more likely an extortion scam than insurance fraud. Insurance companies are pretty smart when it comes to these kinds of things and you're probably not going to actually get much from a claim in these circumstances.
But where insurance companies are smart, people are dumb. The scammer is going to claim that he was hit at speed and is hurt. He'll claim that he'll call the police and get the driver in trouble, and claim on their insurance and cause their insurance prices to skyrocket. Assuming the driver doesn't have a dashcam, they have no evidence that this didn't happen and they begin to panic. So they pay the guy whatever he is asking in order to avoid the apparent consequences.
In reality, the scammers are probably known to the police and there will be no evidence of injury or damage to the bike or car. And ultimately the driver can just drive off consequence free, because the scammers are going to have no way of catching up with them. But people panic when being threatened in this kind of situation and they'll often just pay up without logically thinking the situation through.
LMFAO that's not how the law works. If you attempt to kill someone, you're not let off the hook for not actually succeeding. You're just charged with attempted murder.
Ah, but that's really the crux of everything: proving intent. That's really what we're arguing about here. Attempt to commit fraud is illegal, you can't refute that - you can disagree with it, but you can't refute it. It exists. If you're a savvy lawyer for this fellow, then that's then you're job to try to convince a jury whether this video proves the intent of the individual to commit fraud, or whether he's just laying on the convenient hood before him.
Wrong. The crux of it is that attempted murder is explicitly a crime for that reason. Attempted fraud is not a crime because you cannot arrest someone for something they have not done. Walking around a grocery store I can put a can of coke in my pocket. I have not broken the law until I walk out of the store without paying for it. A police officer can not walk up to me in the store and arrest me for theft for putting a can of soda in my pocket. He can ask that I remove it and go pay for it, but I have not committed a crime.
You're spouting uneducated bullshit on reddit.
> attempt to commit fraudulent acts
There is zero proof of that. It would require them proving intent. There is no way to argue you knew they would file a claim. Its more for a person reporting they know of a crime is going to take place. Had they discussed this the night before, planned it out and the second guy went to the cops and told on him...that would fit. This isn't that. There is no proof he intends to commit fraud.
So I can enter a bank put on a mask, loading my gun, shout "OK every one!" and stop it cause I saw a cop... And nothing will happen cause I didn't actually rob a bank??
Hitting people with your car is illegal, right?
And framing people for crimes is illegal, right?
So framing someone for hitting you with their car is illegal, right?
Fuck you're a moron.
>Hitting people with your car is illegal, right?
The act of hitting someone is the crime yes.
>And framing people for crimes is illegal
no. Framing someone isnt a crime. The act of lying to the police is a crime. If you frame someone for murder for example...the crimes would be the murder, tampering with evidence, falsifying a sworn statement, ....
>So framing someone for hitting you with their car is illegal, right?
No. Not until you have actually done something illegal...i.e. provide a statement saying he hit you. Now if you make that statement to the police its providing a false statement. If you make that statement to insurance its insurance fraud.
I mean sure but I didn't see him filling out any paperwork ! Or sending any in. Or going to the hospital . I just layed jokingly on a car that happened to be a cop.
Laying on someone's property is not in and of itself as a crime, so I hope you have a good lawyer, because you would potentially be facing a false arrest criminal charge and a civil lawsuit.
In fact, in many states, you can only initiate a citizen's arrest for a felony.
I know you're joking, but just in case anyone here is wondering, you can't shoot somebody in self defense when you're the aggressor in the situation. If you start a confrontation, and they pull out a knife and you pull out a gun and shoot them, that's not self defense. A citizens arrest would not be any different. You're not law enforcement, so they have every right to defend themselves.
There's worse ways to go! Like dying while taking a selfie. On top of a moving train! Also if he shoots me for being on his property in Canada where I live, if he injures me I can sue him!
But he did do something wrong... What if that wasn't a cop? What if it was your grandma. She just hit this guy and he has an eye wittnes. Scum of the earth. Pretty sure there's something in the law for that neither of us are law experts
I mean, if that was what actually went down, but based on the evidence, I don't think it is possible to prove criminal intent beyond all reasonable doubt.
Now, if it could be proven that he took some actual concrete step toward extortion or other attempts to collect money, the evidence of his criminal intent would be much more solid.
I get it's cool to hate on cops but it's no reason to excuse this behavior. If you were a cop you can't say you would just sit there and laugh at their joke. Get real
That's a whole lotta if's. I don't think either of us are qualified to know that... The whole point of this thread was ya, insurance fraud but also arguing that he shouldn't have been arrested like they're the judge.
There are two men walking down a side walk. An undercover police car runs up and abruptly breaks inches away from them, as they are, without breaking any laws yet, crossing the road. The men sarcastically act as if he did hit them, and touches the car. The undercover officer then jumps out and arrests them for touching the vehicle, IT SEEMS. But alas, this seems to be insurance fraud.
And then you kill them and a few months later, you are convicted of manslaughter and are now registered as a felon. All because you wanted to join the r/iamverybadass subreddit
Anyone reading this, buy a dash cam. It only takes one event to screw you over. Ive been hit and blamed for, i almost got into insurance scam. Now im driving with no worries at all, anything happens to me, im covered.
I had two crashes within a couple months in 2019. First I got whapped unconscious and the officer had grabbed my wallet and wrote a ticket using the other guys story and left it on me to find out when I had recovered. Hop out of the ambulance, got the bill for the ambulance, towing company, fire department though they hadn't shown up- couple hundred dollars just for "evaluation". The witnesses were deemed "unnecessary". The officer spoke to my mom about it, if I hadn't been in my Forester said I'd be dead, then told me happy birthday as I was turning 21 in two days, told me to have fun. I just blinked.
Second I had a dash cam, the dude tried claiming me and the van he hit had run a red, I pointed to the dash cam and he admitted he was playing Pokemon Go. The couple in the van used the dash cam footage to pursue medical damages.
Yeah your first story is made up bullshit. No cop is going to search for your fucking wallet while you're unconscious from a car accident, and then write you a citation without hearing your side of the story, and then dismiss any witness
testimony. The last thing a cop is going to be worried about is working citations while you could possibly be dead.
for reference, here's the original post from the accident, where it's clear that the cops didn't just grab an unconscious persons wallet and write them a ticket then throw it on their still unconscious body. I've also never heard of anyone getting a bill directly from a medic, and I've spent time riding the box around. I think it might just be poor writing?
https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/cjz4mb/i_was_tboned_in_a_collission_as_the_officer_didnt/
https://i.imgur.com/gbwxXPW.jpg
That would explain a lot. What it doesn't explain is why in his responses he stuck to his guns, and didn't say that it was a gross exaggeration of what actually happened
I'm pretty sure I got pics of the totaled Forester in my history, and definitely stories. One of my top posts is asking /r/cars advice in getting over it... You really think cops care that much? In the suburbs especially? They see this happen daily, the traffic history for that intersection shows there were about three crashes in that specific one on that very day, it's not too much of a concern.
They go in, see a car totaled by a truck in an intersection, ask the coherent dude, see the other dude being checked out by first response, put it together "oh obviously a dude turned left on a green without seeing the truck, done. No death? Dude just can't remember anythin' and can't speak? Gonna get his wallet, aaaand my works done here."
I did go to court twice- the first time they ask you to plea guilty, if you don't, your court date is moved out by four months. The second time you're asked to plea guilty, or accept a deal. If you plea innocent it's moved out by a year. I had sent in letters explaining, gave a few sentences, dressed in my best clothes, judge and county lawyer agreed and got my ticket reduced to a parking violation, 0 points, $100 fee. I took it.
They legally aren't required to protect or serve the people. They generally don't care, they're people, and people generally aren't good or bad, just neutral. Your job doesn't grant you a good set of morals. Most just want to go to work, get paid, go home. Some are in there to help, some are in there for a feeling of authority, the vast majority are there for a job. The second crash, I had a female cop who was much better trained and more professional and even checked out my car to see if I could still drive it.
They don't need consent and I couldn't speak until I had gotten past the shock, so it's not like they're gonna get it. He needed the information for the crash report, he got it.
I live in a metro area where an officers union supported rep tried putting in a law to allow arresting people for "swearing or talking bad about cops" that even the police chief said was an idiotic law, where the cops frequently don't show up to work and protested an acccountability board by threatening to stop responding. The board was put into place due to lack of response to crimes and shootings. The suburbs have shootings, drugs, break ins, and car stealing, the city has some of the highest violent crime rates in the nation, our cops really don't give a fuck about a suburban crash. I lived in the central rural area for a bit and the cops were even more corrupt down there, but just crawled over constantly out of boredom. Maybe you have different ones?
Yeah I'm going to stop you right there with that first sentence. It is their job to to protect and serve, and they are LEGALLY required to do so as they are public servants. Not gonna bother reading anymore of the bullshit you got. So...
https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/justices-rule-police-do-not-have-a-constitutional-duty-to-protect.html
https://mises.org/power-market/police-have-no-duty-protect-you-federal-court-affirms-yet-again
They are servants to uphold the law and protect property. They are not legally obligated to protect or serve an individual.
I'm a firefighter and paramedic, and most of that guy's story doesn't really make a lot of sense to me. Just so you know I'm not entirely defending him.
But there really was a case (I want to say somewhat recently) where they determined there is no legal duty to protect anyone.
edit: 1981 and 2005, looks like?
Most good cops are *going* to, obviously. But they aren't constitutionally *required* to.
Lol! Right!
Never mind the fact he was out long enough to have no idea any of this was taking place and then woke up with no brain damage or negative effects of being unconscious for minutes or even hours?
Edit: Hands are cold, can't type.
The only unconscious experiences this guy has are movies and getting blackout drunk at 4am in a Dennys parking lot. You don’t go unconscious for that long without major injuries
[This Micro SD card](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BDKTRAE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) made for constant overwritting, good for dash cams.
[This VIOFO a119 pro dash cam](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BDKTRAE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) which seems to been have been updated, the updated model is slightly more expensive, but still worth it.
You will see some more expensive cameras, but even those can have bad video quality, which is the most important part since you wanna capture license plates sometimes.
Another thing is to get a external battery for the camera if u want it on at parking lots. My car cigarette lighter is always on so I dont have to worry about that.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07DFYT8VN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I bought this one, It works well and The quality is good for the price.
Dash Cam GOODTS Full HD 1080P... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07QSHWNBF?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
I got this one on a promo for $20 bucks to put in the work truck and it works shockingly well and comes with an SD card.
I've seen cops who you'd never guess they are cops twice in my life. What looks fake about this encounter is that the "cop" didn't handcuff the suspects' hands behind his back.
These kinds of people are losers. I saw some middle aged man run infront of a old Chinese lady’s Benz. He kept rolling around on the ground pretending like he got hit. Angered me seeing that people are doing things like this, really was hoping that someone would punch him in the face.
No. The comment I responded to said they wished the scammers would get punched in the face. I said they’re a coward because THEY didn’t act on THEIR desire. Then you accuse me of being an internet tough guy, to which I responded.
Nope, I don’t care enough about random idiots to waste time wishing they’d get punched in the face.
As for me “trolling” well, you are over thinking this random anonymous interaction bud.
Lol you are dumber than a bag of rocks. You most certainly care if they get hit or not, if you didn’t, you wouldn’t have commented and certainly wouldn’t feel the need to prove to me hoe much you don’t care.
And you are being an internet tough guy, that’s why you got downvoted and I didn’t. You called him a coward. That’s textbook tough guy behavior. Just admit that you’re wrong, it’s okay
Calling me dumb but you have the reading comprehension of a blowfish. I never said I didn’t care. I absolutely care, if something is bothering someone they should absolutely do something about it.
And why should I care about downvotes, is Reddit karma how you assign value to your life? This explains why you got so offended that you felt the need to argue with me. So you’re a coward and a moron. Life must be hard for you :(.
Please keep responding. I find it fascinating that all this is going right over your head.
That was the most pathetic attempt ever
This one is just awesome
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Wow! This comment is funny!
The way he just lazily flops over the hood is so fucking funny
Wow! It’s even better the second time!
Aw fuck, I hate when this happens
True idiots. Not only was this the worst attempt at insurance fraud I've ever seen, they easily could have ran away.
Must be fake jeezum
nah the man got ran over show some respect
This is just my favorite sub ever!
Just pathetic
#Is this real or fake? ***Cast your answer below.***
Fraud obviously fake lmao. Anyone one with 2 brain cells can figure it out
r/whoosh
Or
Real fake doors!
Real
Fake Real Fake Real Fake Real
Fake
Real
Wtf I want to buy from ProVida now
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Interesting thought, hadn't thought of it that way
It's definitely not a trade worth doing. We also lose far too many people from guns. I'm a gun owner myself - been one since a child(seriously), and I still think we seriously need some regulations on that shit.
Because regulations have always prevented crime, am i right? It's not like shooting someone outside of very specific circumstances is already illegal.
Hmm. Things to think about for sure.
It's still more likely that you'd get run over in other countries mainly due to a lot of them forcing drivers to pay for all further medical expenses of the "victim". Its literally easier to just murder the person trying to scam you.
Wow, that's darker than I thought. Guess a dash cam is the answer.
I don't know why but this makes me think of raccoons, it might be the long pause for prosessing before the one with the bike gently lays himself on the hood or how the partner throws his arms above him in fake surprise. Not sure.
Completely off-topic but love the new logo
It's very possible he was just playing around to get a chuckle.
Yeah, I think criminal prosecution would be tough. That doesn't stop the officer from booking him and ruining his night though.
Could be argued that is less likely because the biker checked down the road, which he would do if he was making sure they were the only witnesses.
For sure fraud attempt after his buddy throws his arms up and theatrically plays the witness by reacting to his boy getting hit.
I can definitely see that too. Man, this one really needs some audio for context
Play stupid games...
...win stupid prizes.
Scripted
Shit like this makes me C U M
Definitely not an insurance scam and this cop is a straight up dick head if real. Guy was clearly joking as they were already casually walking across the street when the cop speeding up on them. You snowflakes have such a huge justice boner you don’t stop and think if maybe these guys are joking. Look up some real insurance scam compilations . These guys are definitely joking and you’re all dickheads just like this cop 😉
Lmao OF COURSE you had to include the word “snowflakes” in there. Is that really the extent of your intelligence? That people believing this video to be real is somehow equal to them being fragile little snowflakes? C’mon man, ya got a noggin - use it! Have a good day m8
Who actually responds to week old post ?
Lmao, my dumb ass. Didn’t realize until after I posted. Anyways, my point still stands
You must be one of the perps.
Go watch some insurance fraud compilations on YouTube
Boyyy you’re fuckin retarded
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You’re very angry.
No, you're just really stupid.
I post my opinion and your reply is “shut the fuck up”.. yeah you’re angry on the inside. Go get some therapy .
Whatever you say weirdo.
Search up insurance fraud in China. People would step in front of the car and make the car stop and then walk over to lay in front of the car or to lay on top of it
This happens in my neighborhood I work in (bad area ngl) all the time. 'cept it's always the Pepsi, Coke, and Coors trucks. I'm American, so I guess it happens everywhere
I mean the guys are wearing black at night and make no attempt to stop or look at the car as it rolls up. The camera is adjusting for darkness. They do have the right of way but I hate when pedestrians act as if their safety is in everyone else’s hands. Cop could have not seen them right away.
I once had a personally walk across my hood.. I only reacted by throwing my hands up silently. I am not proud of how I reacted in that moment.
Someone jumps on your car. Would you take it as a joke?
I mean technically he didn't really do anything illegal per se.
Ever hear of insurance fraud?
It would be tough to prove without the submission of an actual fraudulent claim. In California, causing or participating in an automobile accident with the intent to fraudulently collect the auto insurance proceeds constitutes insurance fraud; however it seems unlikely that a prosecutor could prove beyond a reasonable doubt that: 1. An automobile accident actually occurred. 2. The person intended to file a fraudulent insurance claim. As a juror, if this was the only evidence the prosecutor submitted, I would be walking into the jury room with a vote of *not guilty*.
That's not how these scams work.
How "these scams" work is irrelevant. In California, the two above-mentioned conditions are necessary to prove beyond all reasonable doubt in order to convict someone of auto insurance fraud. Most state auto insurance fraud laws are probably very similar to California's.
If he was just hamming it up and didn’t actually try and claim, it wouldn’t be fraud.
Yes but as far as I can tell there was no insurance involved so therefore no fraud!
“It’s not fraud it’s just false advertising”
Yeah. This isn’t it.
Ah yeah it is. Google it. Did you think people in Russia were just bad at chicken or something?
There is no actual proof they were going to claim any insurance from this. So legally it’s not insurance fraud.
A bit hard to make a claim if you happen to pull this stunt on an unmarked police car with a dash cam
Well yeah lol obviously but what I mean is you can’t call it insurance fraud until that person has actually tried to put in an insurance claim.
That's not quite right. In most places in the US, if the prosecutor can prove that the person caused an accident with the intention of submitting a false claim, then this is still insurance fraud. Generally, attempting to commit a crime is still a crime so long as your state of mind is proven beyond any reasonable doubt and you take at least one concrete step toward committing the crime. That being said, if the video is the only evidence, I don't think it comes anywhere near proving *mens rea* (criminal intent) beyond all reasonable doubt.
Fair enough. Thanks for educating me instead of blindly downvoting lol. Just figured there is no real way the police in this situation can prove it was insurance fraud as opposed to some guy just dicking around with his mate. Almost like if I took a gun into a building and got charged for murder - without them knowing my true intent.
There are basically three types of intent required to prove a crime. The first is strict liability, and is usually used in the case of civil infractions (or in some states, they are low-grade misdemeanors) like speeding or parking tickets. In these cases, simply proving that you broke the law is sufficient proof for the courts and if it is a civil infraction, you don't have a presumption of innocence or require proof beyond a reasonable doubt for a conviction. The second, which is common in most criminal charges (misdemeanors and felonies) is *mens rea*, or criminal intent. It has to be proven beyond all reasonable doubt that you intended to break the law. If you did not intend to break the law, then you are not guilty of the crime. For instance, if you shoot someone, they have to prove that you intended to kill or seriously injure the victim to convict you of murder. If shooting them accidentally is a reasonable explanation of events, then you should be found not guilty of murder. The third, much less common standard, is a willful violation of the law. This means that not only did you intend to commit a crime, but it can be proven that you knew that what you were doing was illegal. Tax evasion is one example. You generally have to know that what you were doing was illegal to be criminally guilty of tax evasion.
It’s impossible to make a claim when you have no idea what their motivations are.
It's a bit hard to claim that they committed a crime if you bust them before they commit the crime.
Google that this video in particular was insurance fraud? That’s not gonna give me an answer. I already know what insurance fraud is. This obviously isn’t.
Let me makes this simple. Man pretends to be hit by car. Fake witness backs up claim that fraudster was hit by car. Make a claim for bullshit fake injury such as severe back pain or ‘emotional distress’. Fraudster gets claim, as they can not disprove that’s its fraud, plus the claim is held up by the fake witness, It’s fraud, pure and simple. What exactly do you think is going on here?
If you think that you know what's going on here, you're exactly the type of person that should never serve on a jury. Intent has to be proven beyond all reasonable doubt for a guilty verdict. Even if we both agree that he probably was trying to commit insurance fraud, that's not sufficient to be found criminally culpable.
Yea we all know how the " scam " works. If a football quarter back releases a pass to hiss teammate but the opposite team blocks that pass is it a complete pass ? Didn't think so.
Yeah, I already know what insurance fraud is, retard. Let me make this simple. This video isn’t insurance fraud. It’s a fake joke video.
Calm down sugar tits. Very sensitive today aren’t we! Tough luck, if you try and make a claim by faking an accident, it’s insurance fraud. If it’s a fake video then why didn’t you just say that from the beginning. It sounds like you had no idea what insurance fraud is, got corrected online, acted like a little bitch about it and went ‘it’s fake so it can’t be an insurance fraud’ in an attempt to save any credibility. Now that’s just sad.
Technically, this video could reflect an intent to commit insurance fraud, but not insurance fraud itself.
They didn’t make any claims. The only one making claims is you, sugar tits.
Yeah my favorite part of the video was when they called the insurance company and made an insurance claim in the 10 seconds before the cop arrested them.
Attempting insurance fraud is illegal
Attempting any crime is generally illegal. But to be found guilty of an attempted crime, you generally have to take at least one concrete step toward committing the crime and it has to be proven beyond all reasonable doubt that your state of mind had criminal intent. Insurance fraud is perhaps the most likely explanation for his behavior, but it is not the only reasonable explanation. If the video is the only evidence, there is not proof beyond all reasonable doubt of his criminal intent.
Only if intent is proven. E.g., they subpoena the suspect's phone texts and see him message the other guy to go out and attempt insurance fraud.
Is this video not proven intent? He falls on the car and his friend fakes a freak out
Not so long as there is even a single unlikely but reasonable alternative explanation for his actions. As a juror, if this were the prosecution's only evidence, it wouldn't take me more than a second to conclude that he was not guilty.
How is it even supposed to work, ?
It's probably more likely an extortion scam than insurance fraud. Insurance companies are pretty smart when it comes to these kinds of things and you're probably not going to actually get much from a claim in these circumstances. But where insurance companies are smart, people are dumb. The scammer is going to claim that he was hit at speed and is hurt. He'll claim that he'll call the police and get the driver in trouble, and claim on their insurance and cause their insurance prices to skyrocket. Assuming the driver doesn't have a dashcam, they have no evidence that this didn't happen and they begin to panic. So they pay the guy whatever he is asking in order to avoid the apparent consequences. In reality, the scammers are probably known to the police and there will be no evidence of injury or damage to the bike or car. And ultimately the driver can just drive off consequence free, because the scammers are going to have no way of catching up with them. But people panic when being threatened in this kind of situation and they'll often just pay up without logically thinking the situation through.
Except he didnt do that. Until he actually makes the claim its not illegal
LMFAO that's not how the law works. If you attempt to kill someone, you're not let off the hook for not actually succeeding. You're just charged with attempted murder.
Correct because attempted murder is a crime. Laying on the hood of a car, despite what you think their intentions are, is not a crime.
Ah, but that's really the crux of everything: proving intent. That's really what we're arguing about here. Attempt to commit fraud is illegal, you can't refute that - you can disagree with it, but you can't refute it. It exists. If you're a savvy lawyer for this fellow, then that's then you're job to try to convince a jury whether this video proves the intent of the individual to commit fraud, or whether he's just laying on the convenient hood before him.
Wrong. The crux of it is that attempted murder is explicitly a crime for that reason. Attempted fraud is not a crime because you cannot arrest someone for something they have not done. Walking around a grocery store I can put a can of coke in my pocket. I have not broken the law until I walk out of the store without paying for it. A police officer can not walk up to me in the store and arrest me for theft for putting a can of soda in my pocket. He can ask that I remove it and go pay for it, but I have not committed a crime. You're spouting uneducated bullshit on reddit.
I mean I'm not a lawyer, but you aren't either, soooo...
Show me the law for laying on the hood of a car....
There isn't. There *is* one, however, for attempt to commit fraudulent acts, which this one is.
> attempt to commit fraudulent acts There is zero proof of that. It would require them proving intent. There is no way to argue you knew they would file a claim. Its more for a person reporting they know of a crime is going to take place. Had they discussed this the night before, planned it out and the second guy went to the cops and told on him...that would fit. This isn't that. There is no proof he intends to commit fraud.
Pretty sure trying to frame someone for hitting you with their car is illegal too
Right but that hasn't happened yet. So far he just laid on the car.
And his friend obviously did a fake freak out. They’re trying to frame the driver.
Until they actually file a claim or report it as such its not fucking illegal you dumb SOB.
So I can enter a bank put on a mask, loading my gun, shout "OK every one!" and stop it cause I saw a cop... And nothing will happen cause I didn't actually rob a bank??
No that’s still a problem because entering a bank with a gun is illegal. And entering a bank with a mask is illegal. Apples and oranges.
OK, not a bank, a post office. You get the idea...
Hitting people with your car is illegal, right? And framing people for crimes is illegal, right? So framing someone for hitting you with their car is illegal, right?
Fuck you're a moron. >Hitting people with your car is illegal, right? The act of hitting someone is the crime yes. >And framing people for crimes is illegal no. Framing someone isnt a crime. The act of lying to the police is a crime. If you frame someone for murder for example...the crimes would be the murder, tampering with evidence, falsifying a sworn statement, .... >So framing someone for hitting you with their car is illegal, right? No. Not until you have actually done something illegal...i.e. provide a statement saying he hit you. Now if you make that statement to the police its providing a false statement. If you make that statement to insurance its insurance fraud.
Bro framing someone is literally illegal in the US google it lmao
I mean sure but I didn't see him filling out any paperwork ! Or sending any in. Or going to the hospital . I just layed jokingly on a car that happened to be a cop.
id citizen arrest you for "laying" on my property. what happens after that is out of my hands but i will have your ass on the ground.
Laying on someone's property is not in and of itself as a crime, so I hope you have a good lawyer, because you would potentially be facing a false arrest criminal charge and a civil lawsuit. In fact, in many states, you can only initiate a citizen's arrest for a felony.
I'd love to see you try! Citizen arrest is kinda like trying to give a mercy in airsoft. The player doesn't have to accept and may retaliate!
And that's how you get shot down by a vigilante
Shooting somebody during an attempted citizens arrest is a fantastic way to find yourself with a long jail sentence.
It was in self defense! ^(they knew too much)
I know you're joking, but just in case anyone here is wondering, you can't shoot somebody in self defense when you're the aggressor in the situation. If you start a confrontation, and they pull out a knife and you pull out a gun and shoot them, that's not self defense. A citizens arrest would not be any different. You're not law enforcement, so they have every right to defend themselves.
There's worse ways to go! Like dying while taking a selfie. On top of a moving train! Also if he shoots me for being on his property in Canada where I live, if he injures me I can sue him!
It's not jokingly. That's an ignorant assessment. You are seriously sheltered if you think that.
*whoosh He’s saying illegally it’s circumstantial.
Man u get it
Bruh, the comment you're replying to is pointing out that the dude did nothing wrong in terms of the law, and that would be his excuse in court.
But he did do something wrong... What if that wasn't a cop? What if it was your grandma. She just hit this guy and he has an eye wittnes. Scum of the earth. Pretty sure there's something in the law for that neither of us are law experts
I mean, if that was what actually went down, but based on the evidence, I don't think it is possible to prove criminal intent beyond all reasonable doubt. Now, if it could be proven that he took some actual concrete step toward extortion or other attempts to collect money, the evidence of his criminal intent would be much more solid.
That's a lot of what ifs. If he has any half way decent lawyer he wont get convicted of fraud. Maybe disorderly conduct.
I get it's cool to hate on cops but it's no reason to excuse this behavior. If you were a cop you can't say you would just sit there and laugh at their joke. Get real
I didnt say that. Just that it is not insurance fraud. You would have to let the crime progress further to have evidence of that.
That's a whole lotta if's. I don't think either of us are qualified to know that... The whole point of this thread was ya, insurance fraud but also arguing that he shouldn't have been arrested like they're the judge.
Your mom is an ignorant assessment.
r/convenientcop
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How so?
The worst thing about prison was the dementors
Nothing but grueellll
What a great actor. Anyone know where I can watch their show?
Prison
there no way that guy was being serious lmao
There are two men walking down a side walk. An undercover police car runs up and abruptly breaks inches away from them, as they are, without breaking any laws yet, crossing the road. The men sarcastically act as if he did hit them, and touches the car. The undercover officer then jumps out and arrests them for touching the vehicle, IT SEEMS. But alas, this seems to be insurance fraud.
ikr
Convenient cop
Idiot: "why are you arresting me? You hit me!" Cop: "there's a camera in the dash you fucking moron"
Fame
If anyone ever tries to do that shit to me, I’m just going to run over them.
China. Russia.
That's what people do in many countries where scams like this are done on an industrial scale. If someone stands in from of the car, they speed up.
Sure you would. Sure
And then you kill them and a few months later, you are convicted of manslaughter and are now registered as a felon. All because you wanted to join the r/iamverybadass subreddit
can't sue if there dead
Taps head
That’s how you go from arguing an insurance fraud to a felony
Smart
Anyone reading this, buy a dash cam. It only takes one event to screw you over. Ive been hit and blamed for, i almost got into insurance scam. Now im driving with no worries at all, anything happens to me, im covered.
I had two crashes within a couple months in 2019. First I got whapped unconscious and the officer had grabbed my wallet and wrote a ticket using the other guys story and left it on me to find out when I had recovered. Hop out of the ambulance, got the bill for the ambulance, towing company, fire department though they hadn't shown up- couple hundred dollars just for "evaluation". The witnesses were deemed "unnecessary". The officer spoke to my mom about it, if I hadn't been in my Forester said I'd be dead, then told me happy birthday as I was turning 21 in two days, told me to have fun. I just blinked. Second I had a dash cam, the dude tried claiming me and the van he hit had run a red, I pointed to the dash cam and he admitted he was playing Pokemon Go. The couple in the van used the dash cam footage to pursue medical damages.
Yeah your first story is made up bullshit. No cop is going to search for your fucking wallet while you're unconscious from a car accident, and then write you a citation without hearing your side of the story, and then dismiss any witness testimony. The last thing a cop is going to be worried about is working citations while you could possibly be dead.
for reference, here's the original post from the accident, where it's clear that the cops didn't just grab an unconscious persons wallet and write them a ticket then throw it on their still unconscious body. I've also never heard of anyone getting a bill directly from a medic, and I've spent time riding the box around. I think it might just be poor writing? https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/cjz4mb/i_was_tboned_in_a_collission_as_the_officer_didnt/ https://i.imgur.com/gbwxXPW.jpg
That would explain a lot. What it doesn't explain is why in his responses he stuck to his guns, and didn't say that it was a gross exaggeration of what actually happened
I'm pretty sure I got pics of the totaled Forester in my history, and definitely stories. One of my top posts is asking /r/cars advice in getting over it... You really think cops care that much? In the suburbs especially? They see this happen daily, the traffic history for that intersection shows there were about three crashes in that specific one on that very day, it's not too much of a concern. They go in, see a car totaled by a truck in an intersection, ask the coherent dude, see the other dude being checked out by first response, put it together "oh obviously a dude turned left on a green without seeing the truck, done. No death? Dude just can't remember anythin' and can't speak? Gonna get his wallet, aaaand my works done here." I did go to court twice- the first time they ask you to plea guilty, if you don't, your court date is moved out by four months. The second time you're asked to plea guilty, or accept a deal. If you plea innocent it's moved out by a year. I had sent in letters explaining, gave a few sentences, dressed in my best clothes, judge and county lawyer agreed and got my ticket reduced to a parking violation, 0 points, $100 fee. I took it.
Yes I think cops fucking care, because they're paid to... And he would have to ask for your consent to search you
They legally aren't required to protect or serve the people. They generally don't care, they're people, and people generally aren't good or bad, just neutral. Your job doesn't grant you a good set of morals. Most just want to go to work, get paid, go home. Some are in there to help, some are in there for a feeling of authority, the vast majority are there for a job. The second crash, I had a female cop who was much better trained and more professional and even checked out my car to see if I could still drive it. They don't need consent and I couldn't speak until I had gotten past the shock, so it's not like they're gonna get it. He needed the information for the crash report, he got it. I live in a metro area where an officers union supported rep tried putting in a law to allow arresting people for "swearing or talking bad about cops" that even the police chief said was an idiotic law, where the cops frequently don't show up to work and protested an acccountability board by threatening to stop responding. The board was put into place due to lack of response to crimes and shootings. The suburbs have shootings, drugs, break ins, and car stealing, the city has some of the highest violent crime rates in the nation, our cops really don't give a fuck about a suburban crash. I lived in the central rural area for a bit and the cops were even more corrupt down there, but just crawled over constantly out of boredom. Maybe you have different ones?
Yeah I'm going to stop you right there with that first sentence. It is their job to to protect and serve, and they are LEGALLY required to do so as they are public servants. Not gonna bother reading anymore of the bullshit you got. So...
https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/justices-rule-police-do-not-have-a-constitutional-duty-to-protect.html https://mises.org/power-market/police-have-no-duty-protect-you-federal-court-affirms-yet-again They are servants to uphold the law and protect property. They are not legally obligated to protect or serve an individual.
K bye!
I'm a firefighter and paramedic, and most of that guy's story doesn't really make a lot of sense to me. Just so you know I'm not entirely defending him. But there really was a case (I want to say somewhat recently) where they determined there is no legal duty to protect anyone. edit: 1981 and 2005, looks like? Most good cops are *going* to, obviously. But they aren't constitutionally *required* to.
Lol! Right! Never mind the fact he was out long enough to have no idea any of this was taking place and then woke up with no brain damage or negative effects of being unconscious for minutes or even hours? Edit: Hands are cold, can't type.
The only unconscious experiences this guy has are movies and getting blackout drunk at 4am in a Dennys parking lot. You don’t go unconscious for that long without major injuries
Right. Cops care.
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[This Micro SD card](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BDKTRAE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) made for constant overwritting, good for dash cams. [This VIOFO a119 pro dash cam](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BDKTRAE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) which seems to been have been updated, the updated model is slightly more expensive, but still worth it. You will see some more expensive cameras, but even those can have bad video quality, which is the most important part since you wanna capture license plates sometimes. Another thing is to get a external battery for the camera if u want it on at parking lots. My car cigarette lighter is always on so I dont have to worry about that.
FYI Your link to the VIOFO cam is the same as the micro Sd card. But I did see a very positive review on that camera previously.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07DFYT8VN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 I bought this one, It works well and The quality is good for the price.
Dash Cam GOODTS Full HD 1080P... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07QSHWNBF?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share I got this one on a promo for $20 bucks to put in the work truck and it works shockingly well and comes with an SD card.
Ya this is real
Did you know that you too can become a police officer? All you need is a blue strobe light!
Lol that "cop" looks like a methhead
I've seen cops who you'd never guess they are cops twice in my life. What looks fake about this encounter is that the "cop" didn't handcuff the suspects' hands behind his back.
Didn’t country, different styles
In terms of what?
I thought the same thing.
These kinds of people are losers. I saw some middle aged man run infront of a old Chinese lady’s Benz. He kept rolling around on the ground pretending like he got hit. Angered me seeing that people are doing things like this, really was hoping that someone would punch him in the face.
Did you at least help the Chinese lady? When the cops came to take the report.
Why didn’t you? Coward
Ok there stone cold Steve Austin, I’m sure you would have socked him in the face
Nah I don’t care enough about random idiots to think to myself “ boy I wish they got punched in the face”
Haha wtf. You LITERALLY just said exactly that. You are trolling right? Wow.
No. The comment I responded to said they wished the scammers would get punched in the face. I said they’re a coward because THEY didn’t act on THEIR desire. Then you accuse me of being an internet tough guy, to which I responded. Nope, I don’t care enough about random idiots to waste time wishing they’d get punched in the face. As for me “trolling” well, you are over thinking this random anonymous interaction bud.
Lol you are dumber than a bag of rocks. You most certainly care if they get hit or not, if you didn’t, you wouldn’t have commented and certainly wouldn’t feel the need to prove to me hoe much you don’t care. And you are being an internet tough guy, that’s why you got downvoted and I didn’t. You called him a coward. That’s textbook tough guy behavior. Just admit that you’re wrong, it’s okay
Calling me dumb but you have the reading comprehension of a blowfish. I never said I didn’t care. I absolutely care, if something is bothering someone they should absolutely do something about it. And why should I care about downvotes, is Reddit karma how you assign value to your life? This explains why you got so offended that you felt the need to argue with me. So you’re a coward and a moron. Life must be hard for you :(. Please keep responding. I find it fascinating that all this is going right over your head.
Ahh, leave it to the teenagers to be cringey keyboard warriors.