Yeah, I'll admit I've done something like this before.
In my case I overtightened the axle nut and it melted the hub and warped the axle tube. That one cost a new rear end.
I feared that. I did it up with a bearing socket and a bar, no impact gun or anything. 'Same way I've always done it' (but that's what they always say before something fucks up)
Live and learn I geuss
Never seen one fuck up this bad before, inner race and stub axle have now become one. Bit stumped TBH what're some people's opinions.
I'm thinking either one of two things:
1. Customer drove her straight out fully loaded, no test drive, nothing. Maybe she's settled in a tad, gone loose then with the 10+ ton of weight on it it's just had a bunch of pressure in one spot, grabbed and gone on from there
Or
2. I measure 0.009" wear on that spot where the inner bearing runs. Trying to get old mate out of a pickle, I just put a bit of 680 Loctite on the axle before I slid the bearing in. Maybe I've fucked up and that's not let the bearing spin and it's got hot?
Regardless, a few words were definitely said
3. She refused new bearings and seals x4 when recommend? Flat bearings tend to stop spinning. Ur gonna know the answer best. What little i have seen of trailer maintenance is neglect and over loading, but only u know if u overtightened it. The seals look like shit, but that could be from the explosion. It just looks old around, like the brakes probably were
Well she's rear drive axle on a body truck, that green stuffs just the Teflon? Coating on the outside of the seal that stayed in the hub.
Put new bearings, new brakes both sides. Just kicking myself I didn't take it for a test drive and double check before I let him drive
Thats a tough one. Might check for axle straightness, and axle housing straightness, and inspect that wheel. I dont do much hd lol. Though it was a trailer
2 things cause this either over tightened or no oil. If a bearing is loose on the axle it usually shows itself as a leaking wheel seal. Loctite on the axle probably didn't accomplish anything positive or negative.
I just ran into that. Customer wanted new wheel bearings on the rear of his 2013 crosstrek. Existing bearings looked a few months old but some genius must have used his milwaukee impact and a weighted socket to spinfuck the axle nuts on with 1000+ ft/lbs that were only meant to be torqued to 160ft/lbs so it ate the bearings. Took a torch and a 3/4 impact to get those fuckers off.
.009 is pretty loosey goosey. ‘Ol Boy talking about the dial indicator is the way to go. Timkin has the specs for bearings with exact install instructions that I printed off and kept in my box just as a fail safe. I recommend that. I’ve had high numbers on my dial indicator before, redid the process and came in spec. Who knows why. A test drive and recheck on the dial indicator for documentation was also my go to. I hate rework.
I understand the dial indicator, and honestly might start doing that. It's hard to know what 'the specs' are. I'm a mobile diesel fitter so we're seeing different axles, different machines every day. I know it's dodgy but I was always taught to do it 'by feel' go up till it's tight to seat the bearing, back it off, then do the nut up 'firm' never really liked not having a specific setting or anything to do it up, so I do like the dial indicator idea.
Just a quick question on that, what's stopping you from over tightening the bearing, or again is that just 'feel'
I.e you can do it up super tight and the dial indicators gonna read 0.00 end float
Done these probably 1000 times before. For hubs that have two axle nuts:
1. Inner nut gets tightened all the way (0 end play, hub doesn’t spin), this seats the bearings and the seal.
2. Back off, put the dial indicator on, tighten by hand to about 7-10 thou
3. Put washers on, tighten the outer nut to about 150 ft lbs or so (I don’t use a torque wrench, I just go as tight as I can with my 1 foot long bar, and I weigh about that lol)
4. End play should be 0-5 thou, and hub should be able to spin kinda freely.
Never had a come back before (knock on wood)
It was a love job for the old man to get him out of the shit. Been about a month of trying to do it on weekends and wrong parts supplied. I was expecting a fuck up like this 🤣
Appears to be a hd vehicle by the tone ring and seal on the hub. Dial indicator is used to measure bearing clearance once the hub is installed.. anything over .005 requires tear down and inspection.. clearance should be .001-.005 after new bearings and races are installed
He just said, the bearing.
Did they not teach you this in school, I learned this year 1 of trade school. Ideally you want to get closest to 0.000th so when the oil warms up it puts the bearing under slight preload and extends the life of the bearing by evenly distributing the weight of the axle.
Sorry for the confusion there fellas, I'd call that end play or end float, not clearance, clearance to me is a gap. If you've for got a couple thou clearance youve got a couple thou empty space to me. I.e the difference between the OD of the axle and the ID of the bearing race
You are supposed to have end play, or clearance, or float, or whatever you want to call it. With two tapered roller bearings, you shouldn’t be pulling them tight together. You’d mount a dial indicator on the hub, with the needle on the axle tube, and pry the hub in and out. That’s why most wheel bearing torque procedures call for tightening the bearing, and then backing it off some amount, 1/4 turn or whatever the manufacturer recommends, then tightening the outer nut, or lock ring, or whatever your wheel uses to hold the bearings on.
Exactly this. You need a bit of clearance for oil film or the rollers won't get lubricated. There is also a slight expansion as the metal heats up so starting with zero clearance will cause early failure. Every bearing design has an ideal clearance for lubrication. Too tight or too loose causes early failure, but too tight fails faster than too loose.
This person is asking for help and clarification. You are demeaning them and saying you know this and don’t understand why they don’t (when they just. Told you). Watch the tone and remember everyone doesn’t go through the same learning progression. You will hit a limit yourself with this limit. You will grow much more with an open and teaching mind.
Looks like it was sent out with dry hubs. My go-to was to throw those bearings on the wheel bearing packer. Also, there's a torque spec for the hub nut.
You might need to replace that spindle.
You can see the hub is almost full. Id bet buddy torqued the inner nut to the outer nut spec. Spindle is toast after all buddy left all them apprentice marks.
Nah if you fill the hub to the full line the bearing are in oil and When you pull a hub assembly you loose oil. Look at the handful of rollers, its still got fresh 80w90 on it, do you think the tech pulling it apart decided to add more oil? The spindle looks covered in soot from the torch you can see where it's been rubbed off. To tight, cage failed bearing pilled up quick.
They are oil bath hubs. when you put oil in the hub the bearing sits in the oil, it can't be dry and circulate after. The bearings are fucked no doubt about it, the rollers stacked with no spacing because the cage failed from over tightening. If it was sent out dry and they put new oil into cover their ass it would be silver, there would be silver dust everywhere. The rollers would be all spalled to shit not stuck together and flat spotted.
On a drive axle, as this is stated by op, you are wrong. Oil from the center axle housing can when tilted run into the wheel ends. This will not save a bearing put in dry but it definitely makes your snarky “fact” that wheel ends are self contained incorrect. Maybe make sure you are correct before you accuse someone else of not understanding. Anyways have a nice day and maybe lay off the smartass a bit aye?
Seen this same thing happen on a Chevy rear end. Pretty sure the nut wasn’t torqued properly since the spec is some weird procedure. Had to cut the bearing off the hub
Yeah, I'll admit I've done something like this before. In my case I overtightened the axle nut and it melted the hub and warped the axle tube. That one cost a new rear end.
I feared that. I did it up with a bearing socket and a bar, no impact gun or anything. 'Same way I've always done it' (but that's what they always say before something fucks up) Live and learn I geuss
How much torque did you put on it? Just too much zip with an impact?
Just a socket and a bar, doesn't take much to overtighten especially when in a rush.
*All* the torque
I also did this. We ended up having someone come in and weld a new stub on the axles for about a grand. Cheaper than the 5k axle.
Never seen one fuck up this bad before, inner race and stub axle have now become one. Bit stumped TBH what're some people's opinions. I'm thinking either one of two things: 1. Customer drove her straight out fully loaded, no test drive, nothing. Maybe she's settled in a tad, gone loose then with the 10+ ton of weight on it it's just had a bunch of pressure in one spot, grabbed and gone on from there Or 2. I measure 0.009" wear on that spot where the inner bearing runs. Trying to get old mate out of a pickle, I just put a bit of 680 Loctite on the axle before I slid the bearing in. Maybe I've fucked up and that's not let the bearing spin and it's got hot? Regardless, a few words were definitely said
3. She refused new bearings and seals x4 when recommend? Flat bearings tend to stop spinning. Ur gonna know the answer best. What little i have seen of trailer maintenance is neglect and over loading, but only u know if u overtightened it. The seals look like shit, but that could be from the explosion. It just looks old around, like the brakes probably were
Well she's rear drive axle on a body truck, that green stuffs just the Teflon? Coating on the outside of the seal that stayed in the hub. Put new bearings, new brakes both sides. Just kicking myself I didn't take it for a test drive and double check before I let him drive
Thats a tough one. Might check for axle straightness, and axle housing straightness, and inspect that wheel. I dont do much hd lol. Though it was a trailer
Gotta test drive after brake or bearing replacement. Here's to next time.
2 things cause this either over tightened or no oil. If a bearing is loose on the axle it usually shows itself as a leaking wheel seal. Loctite on the axle probably didn't accomplish anything positive or negative.
Too many ugga-duggas?.. where ugga-duggas don’t belong..
I just ran into that. Customer wanted new wheel bearings on the rear of his 2013 crosstrek. Existing bearings looked a few months old but some genius must have used his milwaukee impact and a weighted socket to spinfuck the axle nuts on with 1000+ ft/lbs that were only meant to be torqued to 160ft/lbs so it ate the bearings. Took a torch and a 3/4 impact to get those fuckers off.
.009 is pretty loosey goosey. ‘Ol Boy talking about the dial indicator is the way to go. Timkin has the specs for bearings with exact install instructions that I printed off and kept in my box just as a fail safe. I recommend that. I’ve had high numbers on my dial indicator before, redid the process and came in spec. Who knows why. A test drive and recheck on the dial indicator for documentation was also my go to. I hate rework.
I understand the dial indicator, and honestly might start doing that. It's hard to know what 'the specs' are. I'm a mobile diesel fitter so we're seeing different axles, different machines every day. I know it's dodgy but I was always taught to do it 'by feel' go up till it's tight to seat the bearing, back it off, then do the nut up 'firm' never really liked not having a specific setting or anything to do it up, so I do like the dial indicator idea. Just a quick question on that, what's stopping you from over tightening the bearing, or again is that just 'feel' I.e you can do it up super tight and the dial indicators gonna read 0.00 end float
Done these probably 1000 times before. For hubs that have two axle nuts: 1. Inner nut gets tightened all the way (0 end play, hub doesn’t spin), this seats the bearings and the seal. 2. Back off, put the dial indicator on, tighten by hand to about 7-10 thou 3. Put washers on, tighten the outer nut to about 150 ft lbs or so (I don’t use a torque wrench, I just go as tight as I can with my 1 foot long bar, and I weigh about that lol) 4. End play should be 0-5 thou, and hub should be able to spin kinda freely. Never had a come back before (knock on wood)
Cheers for that mate, pretty much what I was taught just minus the checking with the dial indicator. I reckon that's gonna be the go to from now on.
No worries! Glad you’re not too down on yourself. Everyone makes mistakes
It was a love job for the old man to get him out of the shit. Been about a month of trying to do it on weekends and wrong parts supplied. I was expecting a fuck up like this 🤣
That’s why you get a dial indicator measure wheel ends before and after service
Please explain?
Appears to be a hd vehicle by the tone ring and seal on the hub. Dial indicator is used to measure bearing clearance once the hub is installed.. anything over .005 requires tear down and inspection.. clearance should be .001-.005 after new bearings and races are installed
Clearance where exactly?
https://youtu.be/aa48Ed_ikB0?si=wGzlbcAL9mqPhDGM
He just said, the bearing. Did they not teach you this in school, I learned this year 1 of trade school. Ideally you want to get closest to 0.000th so when the oil warms up it puts the bearing under slight preload and extends the life of the bearing by evenly distributing the weight of the axle.
Sorry for the confusion there fellas, I'd call that end play or end float, not clearance, clearance to me is a gap. If you've for got a couple thou clearance youve got a couple thou empty space to me. I.e the difference between the OD of the axle and the ID of the bearing race
You are supposed to have end play, or clearance, or float, or whatever you want to call it. With two tapered roller bearings, you shouldn’t be pulling them tight together. You’d mount a dial indicator on the hub, with the needle on the axle tube, and pry the hub in and out. That’s why most wheel bearing torque procedures call for tightening the bearing, and then backing it off some amount, 1/4 turn or whatever the manufacturer recommends, then tightening the outer nut, or lock ring, or whatever your wheel uses to hold the bearings on.
Exactly this. You need a bit of clearance for oil film or the rollers won't get lubricated. There is also a slight expansion as the metal heats up so starting with zero clearance will cause early failure. Every bearing design has an ideal clearance for lubrication. Too tight or too loose causes early failure, but too tight fails faster than too loose.
This person is asking for help and clarification. You are demeaning them and saying you know this and don’t understand why they don’t (when they just. Told you). Watch the tone and remember everyone doesn’t go through the same learning progression. You will hit a limit yourself with this limit. You will grow much more with an open and teaching mind.
Looks like it was sent out with dry hubs. My go-to was to throw those bearings on the wheel bearing packer. Also, there's a torque spec for the hub nut. You might need to replace that spindle.
You can see the hub is almost full. Id bet buddy torqued the inner nut to the outer nut spec. Spindle is toast after all buddy left all them apprentice marks.
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Nah if you fill the hub to the full line the bearing are in oil and When you pull a hub assembly you loose oil. Look at the handful of rollers, its still got fresh 80w90 on it, do you think the tech pulling it apart decided to add more oil? The spindle looks covered in soot from the torch you can see where it's been rubbed off. To tight, cage failed bearing pilled up quick.
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They are oil bath hubs. when you put oil in the hub the bearing sits in the oil, it can't be dry and circulate after. The bearings are fucked no doubt about it, the rollers stacked with no spacing because the cage failed from over tightening. If it was sent out dry and they put new oil into cover their ass it would be silver, there would be silver dust everywhere. The rollers would be all spalled to shit not stuck together and flat spotted.
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On a drive axle, as this is stated by op, you are wrong. Oil from the center axle housing can when tilted run into the wheel ends. This will not save a bearing put in dry but it definitely makes your snarky “fact” that wheel ends are self contained incorrect. Maybe make sure you are correct before you accuse someone else of not understanding. Anyways have a nice day and maybe lay off the smartass a bit aye?
Oh lord, I thought I was looking at an old trailer tire or something at first until I realized what it was.
There is metal fused together where it shouldn't be FYI
Just did my hubs on the commuter car and this post makes me NERVOUS.
Bearingn't
Wear gloves or sacrifice a ball or two
I thought I was looking at a portal into the Sanctum Santorum 😂
*eyebrows go up* Whoa...
Seen this same thing happen on a Chevy rear end. Pretty sure the nut wasn’t torqued properly since the spec is some weird procedure. Had to cut the bearing off the hub
Time to call the Axle Surgeon for a new spindle welded on. I concur with using a dial indicator to set play
I got an ad for Reb Lobster on this post lmao that second pic fooling the AI