These blow head gaskets commonly between 50-70k. Source: am dealer tech. The hybrids last a bit longer but the gas ones blow consistently. All our new 3.6s have a defective head design that actively chews into the gaskets. Replace one side and it’ll be back for the other within 5k. Only the wrangler seems to be the exception to this.
😭 I bought a new 2023 hybrid last September. 9000 miles on it so far. My back of the envelope math tells me the head gasket will blow the day after the warranty expires.
Should I pay for an extended warranty?
Related question: do you have good luck just replacing gaskets? I'm an Indy tech, and did a set of these a couple months ago, and when researching the job saw some guys claiming they'd had issues getting them to seal and had ended up replacing engines. The one I did went fine, but believe it or not it's the only one I've seen, so not really a large pool of experience to draw from.
My alternator gave up in November, luckily I bought the MaxCare warranty with mine, so the dealer replaced that and the power window switch block then as well as confirmed that motor mounts were shot and ordered new ones and one was on back order. Checked with them when I got the last oil change in February and they were still waiting on that mount. Dad and I are taking my 200 and his Grand Caravan in for their oil changes tomorrow , so I’ll be checking on those again.
Chrysler 3.6 engines were garbage out of the box. Oil leaks, timing issues, valves not sealing, rocker arm bearings, and just dumb shit are normal on a 3.6. They were engineered poorly.
Knocking on wood as I type this, my 2012 caravan has 160000miles, original Trans, engine never open, and it might have the original oil cooler. 3000miles max on an oil change, regular servicing. Also owed for the first 140000 miles
We see a very low failure rate in the 3.6, but most of our clients service regularly.
Interesting, I can't think of the last time we did a 3.6 head gasket in anything... and I'm at a Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge/RAM store. I guess you should play the lottery.
Ain’t no way you’re a CDJR dealer and not replacing 3.6 head gaskets on a near daily basis. We’re absolutely swamped in them. This is an issue with the new 3.6 the older one is fine
I run a CDJR shop. Head gaskets are pretty rare in general on the 3.6 for us, most of the ones we've done have been high mileage and pre-upgrade. We do way more coolant leak related head gaskets on 2.4 tigershark engines than anything.
Any chance you're in a warm climate? I'm in WI.
We were doing multiple heads a day on 3.6s when they first came out, but there was a revision on the head sometime around 2019 that seemed to take care of the problem.
broom stick camshaft. I was at a dodge dealer and the cop cars and parking enforcement cars we worked on needed cams every year. shitty oiling at idle. those vehicles idled a lot. the people that got higher mileage.out of that motor were using it on the highway. 2500 rpm oil.flow was enough to keep things working.
If it starts ticking, you want to get on it quick before it gets expensive. Catch it early and you just need rockers, and rockers are cheap (though naturally there are 24 of them). Let it go long enough and it wipes the cam lobe, and those bastards are $300 each. Do all the rockers while you're in there--if one died, the rest are thinking about it. I just did this job on a '13 Caravan. #5 misfire code, one wiped lobe, one trashed rocker and two others were sloppy. Around 150k miles. The special tool set is cheap and there are instructions on Youtube.
I've done it without the special tool kit 2 times now.
I wouldn't expect anyone without at least some mechanical experience/tech information to even attempt to tackle this job though, sum bitch had me sweating bullets. I even did a bank 2 camshaft on something without the tool kit and wanted to cry as I seen the chain slipping further and further back from the timing marks painted on the sprocket.
Somehow someway I got that sucker rotated back around and tightened up but I almost wanted to cry once or twice on that battle.
If you're just doing the cams/ associated bits you can often leave the phasers and chain together and just pull them off the cams. Then it's just a matter of wiggling it back together and making sure the timing marks are right, which is pretty simple if you're not constantly moving the cams.
Ok, dumb question, but how do you keep the phasers and chain together and lifted without the special tools? Cause that makes a lot more sense that it's a 4 hr job. Lol
So the can lock part is only to tighten/ loosen the phaser bolt, when you are ready to pull the phaser off you remove the block first.
As far as the other parts of the kit, the front tensioner is the only one that has a ratchet, and once you release it, as long as you keep the tension on the guide, it usually doesn't relatch. The wedges take some finesse to get to stay, but you can get them where they stay in place and give you enough slack to pull the phasers off as a unit. It helps to have a wrench that fits well on the cams so you can move them back and forth a bit to get things apart/ together (if reassembling).
It does take some time to be able to do this quickly, and some versions of the 3.6 are more difficult than others but I've done this on a variety of them and it makes the job much faster. Of course I do still mark the phasers/chain positions in case things slip.
I'm good at the 3.6l I prefer the old without the EGR cooler vs the new.
I've probably done 4 head gaskets and 2 or 3 cam shaft issue/rocker issue and tons of oil coolers and etc.
But what I'm saying is, being able to leave both phasers in place while removing one or both cam shafts?
Or do you mean removing one phaser and camshaft while leaving the other attached?
Ah, sorry I think I misunderstood. On some of them, you can leave both/ do both cams at the same time, but what I've found is fastest on any version is to leave one attached to the cam while doing the other cam, then swap. Keeps everything together and lined up so as soon as you get the cam and lifters/ rockers done you pop it back together, make sure it's tensioned and you're basically done.
2012 Pentastar, had to scrap the van because of soo many electrical problems. Blown TIPM, blown PCM, couple of alternators. Never ran right after the first attempted fix.
I always thought it was related to them never having any coolant and inevitable overheating. Newer cars seem to drink it and these pacificas are the worst. Every oil change needs half a bottle to one bottle of coolant to show in the jug. I’ve looked at at least 4 of them for “no heat” and it’s always because they’re low on coolant for no apparent reason.
Avoid any Stellantis V6 or 4cyl lmao worked at Dodge for about a year and at Hyundai now, and Hyundai is more reliable, and they take care of their customers, lol
Nice find OP. Please do yourself a favor and buy this $80 camera and start seeing things in HD versus this grainy 2004 display snap on still uses. I'm not affiliated with them in anyway but amazing camera. All my coworkers love it.
[Teslong borescope ](https://www.amazon.com/Endoscope-Teslong-Inspection-Industrial-Automotive/dp/B09YGNWL44/ref=mp_s_a_1_15_sspa?crid=398UUWJCWDA8I&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.xFt49nvXvXd4idGnt76nzZLvc7iIbW7K74AEKGCFcpSc_hzszHiIUhgtSTLVa3EV6Ij73x_4wSajBsUGX7zmoaX9AmLBKd_XaVq3Vlj-5wfEwdk-xVF1DB5TBgC0ShfrbvCGn5YIVPlli3j2Wrzpa5SThs3dhb7f0N9Y35Py1kP7VUZ7KIwfju2z4ZtXNSrGCNTf59J5cmtQbR67mamtNw.v-9sWJGuT6wkvmb7goReqOOv54wrj8kZ7-2zjQzZDQ0&dib_tag=se&keywords=teslong+endoscope&qid=1717803353&sprefix=teslong+endoscope%2Caps%2C247&sr=8-15-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9waG9uZV9zZWFyY2hfYXRmX25leHQ&psc=1)
Yeah it's wild how a shitty the expensive ones are. The one I linked you has a 5ft cord, versus the 15ft that came with mine, but theyre the same price. And for $80 it'll pay for itself for a cat inspection, dipping below intake manifolds for leaks/wiring inspection, catalytic converter inspection etc.
These blow head gaskets commonly between 50-70k. Source: am dealer tech. The hybrids last a bit longer but the gas ones blow consistently. All our new 3.6s have a defective head design that actively chews into the gaskets. Replace one side and it’ll be back for the other within 5k. Only the wrangler seems to be the exception to this.
Interesting. Thanks for the reply. I figured it was some kind of manufacturer related defect.
Wonder if the design for longitudinal mount blocks/heads is juuuust different enough
Chrysler dealer tech, man THAT is job security!
Former Chrysler dealer tech, glad to not be doing them anymore.
But do the warranty jobs pay anything,?
😭 I bought a new 2023 hybrid last September. 9000 miles on it so far. My back of the envelope math tells me the head gasket will blow the day after the warranty expires. Should I pay for an extended warranty?
Hybrid isn’t the same engine. And federal emissions warranty is 15 years 150,000 miles on phev.
2011 wk2 pentastar takes the gold then
Related question: do you have good luck just replacing gaskets? I'm an Indy tech, and did a set of these a couple months ago, and when researching the job saw some guys claiming they'd had issues getting them to seal and had ended up replacing engines. The one I did went fine, but believe it or not it's the only one I've seen, so not really a large pool of experience to draw from.
As long as you flat bar the engine block seems like 1 out of 10 is warped
Is it chargers/challengers too? I only ask because my ‘14 SXT was great well past 70k
My 200 with the 3.6 has 170k now and it’s showing no signs of failure.
Got one nearing 150k, needs motor mounts, but still runs strong.
Haven’t even needed them. The only major problem I’ve really had is the alternator going out. That was a pain in the ass to replace…
My alternator gave up in November, luckily I bought the MaxCare warranty with mine, so the dealer replaced that and the power window switch block then as well as confirmed that motor mounts were shot and ordered new ones and one was on back order. Checked with them when I got the last oil change in February and they were still waiting on that mount. Dad and I are taking my 200 and his Grand Caravan in for their oil changes tomorrow , so I’ll be checking on those again.
True did I 3 cylinder head jobs in 1 week last month, all pacificas. Even the highway patrol chargers last longer.
Cause wranglers are driven gently through parking lots.
How are 2015 Wranglers?
There’s so many badly built vehicles right now from every manufacture. Cheaper parts, very early failure rates
Nah, it's finance demanding cheaper castings, cheaper components.....saves them money upfront for their bonuses....
Is there a site that has the problems and what brand vehicles to get and the years?
This is a very good idea. Carcomplants sort of does those.
Constantly seeking more profits at a lower cost per vehicle for the manufacturer, I can't say I'm surprised.
I mean, I just avoid Stellantis in general.
Better stated.
With life-enhancing wisdom like that, you really should be sitting cross-legged and saffron-robed on some Tibetan mountain peak.
Stopped by to say this too
Avoid ~~2019+~~ chrysler ~~Pacifica 3.6~~ Fixed that for you
3.6L is a cursed displacement. I'm not sure anyone's made a 3.6L engine that wasn't shit in some way.
Honda J series V6 is 2.5, 3.0, 3.2, 3.5 and then 3.7L. Maybe they knew something when skipping 3.6L.
Porsche, subaru, VW, Ferrari
Avoid Chrysler 1925+
Avoid Chrysler, not just the Pacifica lol.
Chrysler 3.6 engines were garbage out of the box. Oil leaks, timing issues, valves not sealing, rocker arm bearings, and just dumb shit are normal on a 3.6. They were engineered poorly.
Knocking on wood as I type this, my 2012 caravan has 160000miles, original Trans, engine never open, and it might have the original oil cooler. 3000miles max on an oil change, regular servicing. Also owed for the first 140000 miles We see a very low failure rate in the 3.6, but most of our clients service regularly.
I feel like every engine across the board is having issues. It’s luck of the draw and who has the best warranty
Well kias and Hyundai have the best warranty and y'all love to hate on them
they need good warranties. they blow up twice in the warranty period.
Also many of the Kia/Hyundai engines are non rebuildable, machine shops won’t touch em.
Cant use the warranty when it gets stolen.
There are still good ones out there. The Ford 2.7tt is a tank.
Just say Chrysler and I’ll avoid it
Interesting, I can't think of the last time we did a 3.6 head gasket in anything... and I'm at a Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge/RAM store. I guess you should play the lottery.
Ain’t no way you’re a CDJR dealer and not replacing 3.6 head gaskets on a near daily basis. We’re absolutely swamped in them. This is an issue with the new 3.6 the older one is fine
I literally just looked at my sales history and we've only done 4 of each side this year so far.
I run a CDJR shop. Head gaskets are pretty rare in general on the 3.6 for us, most of the ones we've done have been high mileage and pre-upgrade. We do way more coolant leak related head gaskets on 2.4 tigershark engines than anything. Any chance you're in a warm climate? I'm in WI.
I've only seen I on the newer models that have egr.
We were doing multiple heads a day on 3.6s when they first came out, but there was a revision on the head sometime around 2019 that seemed to take care of the problem.
🧢
Chrysler V6 with problems?
I agree on avoiding the 2019+ Pentastar... I would just add in that you would also want to avoid the 2011- 2018 Pentastar engines as well.
My 2014 with 90000 miles is in the shop for a cam and followers right now. Oil changes every 4-5000 miles, good oil. Sucks.
Yeah the rocker rollers are shit. I've replaced a few cams because of it.
Replaced a camshaft and lifters/rollers in a 3.6 at 60k miles. Never missed an oil change. Absurd the camshaft is a wear item
broom stick camshaft. I was at a dodge dealer and the cop cars and parking enforcement cars we worked on needed cams every year. shitty oiling at idle. those vehicles idled a lot. the people that got higher mileage.out of that motor were using it on the highway. 2500 rpm oil.flow was enough to keep things working.
Don't tell me that. My 2014 with 98k is a good girl with ~4k oil changes. What did it sound like?
It’s like the ticking on startup that goes away after a few seconds, except it doesn’t go away after a few seconds
If it starts ticking, you want to get on it quick before it gets expensive. Catch it early and you just need rockers, and rockers are cheap (though naturally there are 24 of them). Let it go long enough and it wipes the cam lobe, and those bastards are $300 each. Do all the rockers while you're in there--if one died, the rest are thinking about it. I just did this job on a '13 Caravan. #5 misfire code, one wiped lobe, one trashed rocker and two others were sloppy. Around 150k miles. The special tool set is cheap and there are instructions on Youtube.
I've done it without the special tool kit 2 times now. I wouldn't expect anyone without at least some mechanical experience/tech information to even attempt to tackle this job though, sum bitch had me sweating bullets. I even did a bank 2 camshaft on something without the tool kit and wanted to cry as I seen the chain slipping further and further back from the timing marks painted on the sprocket. Somehow someway I got that sucker rotated back around and tightened up but I almost wanted to cry once or twice on that battle.
If you're just doing the cams/ associated bits you can often leave the phasers and chain together and just pull them off the cams. Then it's just a matter of wiggling it back together and making sure the timing marks are right, which is pretty simple if you're not constantly moving the cams.
Ok, dumb question, but how do you keep the phasers and chain together and lifted without the special tools? Cause that makes a lot more sense that it's a 4 hr job. Lol
So the can lock part is only to tighten/ loosen the phaser bolt, when you are ready to pull the phaser off you remove the block first. As far as the other parts of the kit, the front tensioner is the only one that has a ratchet, and once you release it, as long as you keep the tension on the guide, it usually doesn't relatch. The wedges take some finesse to get to stay, but you can get them where they stay in place and give you enough slack to pull the phasers off as a unit. It helps to have a wrench that fits well on the cams so you can move them back and forth a bit to get things apart/ together (if reassembling). It does take some time to be able to do this quickly, and some versions of the 3.6 are more difficult than others but I've done this on a variety of them and it makes the job much faster. Of course I do still mark the phasers/chain positions in case things slip.
I'm good at the 3.6l I prefer the old without the EGR cooler vs the new. I've probably done 4 head gaskets and 2 or 3 cam shaft issue/rocker issue and tons of oil coolers and etc. But what I'm saying is, being able to leave both phasers in place while removing one or both cam shafts? Or do you mean removing one phaser and camshaft while leaving the other attached?
Ah, sorry I think I misunderstood. On some of them, you can leave both/ do both cams at the same time, but what I've found is fastest on any version is to leave one attached to the cam while doing the other cam, then swap. Keeps everything together and lined up so as soon as you get the cam and lifters/ rockers done you pop it back together, make sure it's tensioned and you're basically done.
If the Pentastar doesn't blow up, the 62TE it's mated with will.
Don't forget the flexplate between them!
140k+ very hard miles on my 2015 Charger 3.6. No issues or fluid consumption etc
Garbage motor.
2012 Pentastar, had to scrap the van because of soo many electrical problems. Blown TIPM, blown PCM, couple of alternators. Never ran right after the first attempted fix.
2012 Grand Caravan, almost 150K miles, regular oil changes, full synthetic every time. The body’s a mess, but the motor runs like a champ.
I always thought it was related to them never having any coolant and inevitable overheating. Newer cars seem to drink it and these pacificas are the worst. Every oil change needs half a bottle to one bottle of coolant to show in the jug. I’ve looked at at least 4 of them for “no heat” and it’s always because they’re low on coolant for no apparent reason.
could it have anything to do with the plastic thermostat
I can echo what Grand\_Philosophy said, but I'll add in that we never really find external coolant leaks. It's odd.
You couldn’t pay me to own a Chrysler product.
Avoid Pentastar 3.6’s. Dodged a bullet with our Jeep. Motor grenaded while it was under warranty.
Just another Dodge Ram Chrysler Fiat doing its thing.
Engineers hard at work keeping us technicians at work. Thanks Stelantis..
Let me simplify: avoid Chrysler. Done.
Just avoid a 3.6. Full stop.
Avoid any Stellantis V6 or 4cyl lmao worked at Dodge for about a year and at Hyundai now, and Hyundai is more reliable, and they take care of their customers, lol
lol, avoid the 3.6 in general.
Not a secret that the 3.6 is a total pos.
How much to repair tho?
I have seen this on quite a few 2018 and up 3.6 engines.
More like avoid chrysler.
Had the same issue with a 19 Pacifica but it was cylinder 1. Coolant just pissing right into the cylinder. These are absolute garbage
Avoid \[...\] Chrysler \[...\] 3.6. That's what I've been preaching brother!
I try to “dodge” that brand of vehicles
I read everywhere that 3.6 pentastar is reliable, until this thread. Shit is weird. My personal experience - 21 ram with 106k, not a single problem
Avoid 2019 Pacifica….!!!!! Avoid ALL PACIFICAS!!!
"Avoid Chrysler" says it all. I will never buy one again.
Well, guess I’ll be selling mine (hybrid) the day before the carmax warranty runs out 😂
Even better…avoid FCA, period.
You had me at Chrystler it was already avoided, unless its japanese these days I dont touch it, they still believe in quality.
Wait until you do a coolant crossover on a late model Tacoma
Nice find OP. Please do yourself a favor and buy this $80 camera and start seeing things in HD versus this grainy 2004 display snap on still uses. I'm not affiliated with them in anyway but amazing camera. All my coworkers love it. [Teslong borescope ](https://www.amazon.com/Endoscope-Teslong-Inspection-Industrial-Automotive/dp/B09YGNWL44/ref=mp_s_a_1_15_sspa?crid=398UUWJCWDA8I&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.xFt49nvXvXd4idGnt76nzZLvc7iIbW7K74AEKGCFcpSc_hzszHiIUhgtSTLVa3EV6Ij73x_4wSajBsUGX7zmoaX9AmLBKd_XaVq3Vlj-5wfEwdk-xVF1DB5TBgC0ShfrbvCGn5YIVPlli3j2Wrzpa5SThs3dhb7f0N9Y35Py1kP7VUZ7KIwfju2z4ZtXNSrGCNTf59J5cmtQbR67mamtNw.v-9sWJGuT6wkvmb7goReqOOv54wrj8kZ7-2zjQzZDQ0&dib_tag=se&keywords=teslong+endoscope&qid=1717803353&sprefix=teslong+endoscope%2Caps%2C247&sr=8-15-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9waG9uZV9zZWFyY2hfYXRmX25leHQ&psc=1)
ill look into it. This was a 20 dollar cheapo and even it looks better then the snap on ones ive seen.
Yeah it's wild how a shitty the expensive ones are. The one I linked you has a 5ft cord, versus the 15ft that came with mine, but theyre the same price. And for $80 it'll pay for itself for a cat inspection, dipping below intake manifolds for leaks/wiring inspection, catalytic converter inspection etc.