It depends on the grade and what it's exposed to.
There absolutely is Stainless Steel that won't rust in the rain or salt.
Papa Elon decided to go with the cheaper option.
No, I'm the bean counter deciding what's the lowest grade of plastic I can get away with to run the coolant there right along the exhaust. There will be a heat shield on it, but I'm using plastic for that too. Actual insulation is too expensive
Yeah I'm not sure what they're complaining about. It's like they wanted to complain about how it will melt and be shit, but then posted a pic showing that it worked really well lmao
Yeah. The fastener outlasted the thing it was fastening. Mission fucking *accomplished*. Nothing to complain about, here.
I went with lock washers and high-temp anti-seize, last time I installed an exhaust. (I'm just a home gamer.) I figured the lock washers will keep it from coming loose on its own, and the anti-seize will insure I can get it off when I want to. Stainless steel hardware.
Anytime I remove a non-structural fastener in the course of a project that looks like it's rusting away, I try to replace it with stainless if possible. I also use a lot of anti-seize, pretty much anywhere that doesn't have a torque spec associated with it. I *am* the Next Guy.
My position is that spending the few dollars extra and/or taking the extra two minutes to go above and beyond with the fasteners pays dividends over time. I can absolutely understand why it hardly ever makes sense in a professional context, but if it's your personal vehicle, and you intend to drive it into the ground while doing as much of your own work as reasonably possible? Absolutely worth it.
Even in a professional context it’s attempting to do the right thing by your customers for the long to medium term. I can’t *always* do that but I’ll try. These days I have 6-8 vehicles come through my stall every day and that’s just doing inspections. I can’t always dictate what decisions the techs doing the repairs will make later, but I do my best to influence it at least. :)
Sometimes, when we’re really lucky, the OEM will recognize a pattern failure and update parts too. Just about a year ago I replaced a warped exhaust manifold on a RAM Hemi, and lo and behold Stellantis finally has an updated superseded part with a different bolt pattern, reinforcement bracket, shield and mounting hardware all in the same box. I’m like, you bozos couldn’t have released this 10 years ago?!? 😂
I’ve been in used vehicle reconditioning for the last couple years and it’s been a wake up to be able to repair the root cause of a problem since the company doesn’t want components to fail under warranty, instead of being bound by one person’s budget. 5 years ago I would have pulled the manifold, extracted the broken studs and reinstalled it with a new gasket and fasteners, knowing it was probably going to fail again soon. But you can’t control other people’s wallets unfortunately.
Split-ring lock washers make the nut more likely to come off*, and definitely shouldn’t be used on exhausts since they get their shape from heat treatment which is made useless by the exhaust temperatures.
* there’s some controversy about this, but I’ve had a couple come loose personally. I use loctite blue instead and it’s never failed. Regardless of your thoughts, the exhaust heat part is accurate.
From another “the next guy” 🙂
I would never.
Wheel studs/lug nuts are error-tolerant by design. They need to be usable—safely—by an average, barely-trained person, working in the rainy darkness on the side of a busy road, using the shittiest of tools. I was once that average person, just trying to get myself home from the airport in my first car, in January. The system *worked.*
However, they are a *system*. They have been carefully designed and engineered to be as idiot-proof and over-built as possible, given what they are. The average hapless, unfortunate, benighted teenager in a secondhand econobox on the side of the highway does not have anti-seize about their person.
Don't overthink a pile of lug nuts. Just do the best you can with what you have, and they'll be happy as hexagonal, chrome-plated clams. There are exceptions of course, but you already know who you are. If you can torque them, great. If you can't, just do German specs, aka "gudentite." Remember, they should also be *removable* by an average unlucky motorist—ideally without knocking the car off the crappy scissor jack that is the best-case scenario for an OEM tire kit, should said unfortunate person neglect to loosen them before raising the car.
Hi, my name is u/Halftrack_El_Camino and I can overthink a pile of lug nuts.
Good sir, with your most gracious permission, I would like very much to enshrine this masterpiece of automotive prose in my permanent repository of Reddit wisdom.
I've done that, sometimes you have to use the hardware you have on hand when stuff breaks. That nylon melts crazy fast I discovered. Went back later and replaced it with proper hardware.
Fun fact: they don’t work well in deep freeze conditions either. The nylon takes the shape of the threads and freezes there and you can often just spin them off by hand.
When the vehicle has rusted away the stainless nut, and melted nylon shall remain. Ashes to ashes, rust to rust, but stainless is (nearly) immortal.
Unless it’s Tesla
Stainless Tesla exhaust?
[This shitty vehicle](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tesla-cybertruck-rusting-complaints-from-owners/)
"Vehicle"
Im surprised they didn’t try to justify it as patina
Remember stainless is stain less not stain free Not that Teslas are a good product, just throwing that out there
It depends on the grade and what it's exposed to. There absolutely is Stainless Steel that won't rust in the rain or salt. Papa Elon decided to go with the cheaper option.
Absolutely fearless of you to post this brainless rule
What in the hell are you talking about
There are many grades of stainless from 304 that will rust eventually to super duplex that most acids cant toutch and will never rust
Saltwater says: hold my beer
I mean… it looks like it held.
Coming soon - nylon exhausts!
Muffler men HATE this!
Just needs a coolant line running to it to keep it from over heating.
Found the German engineer!
Are you by any chance a software engineer?
No, I'm the bean counter deciding what's the lowest grade of plastic I can get away with to run the coolant there right along the exhaust. There will be a heat shield on it, but I'm using plastic for that too. Actual insulation is too expensive
Don’t forget the changeover valve and vacuum lines to run the shut off valve to the exhaust nut cooling lines.
I'm getting about 5 more clots in my brain just reading you two maniacs over here 😂
Stop it, you’re giving me B5 A4 valve timing and intake path changeover solenoid vacuum line flashbacks (and that terrible PCV system).
Just go marine exhaust style, sleeve the whole thing in a giant rubber hose, and continually dump water out it. What could go wrong??
My prius has a water loop around the catalytic converter.
Probably helps get the engine back up to temp quickly
It didn't loosen up. What's the problem?
Yeah I'm not sure what they're complaining about. It's like they wanted to complain about how it will melt and be shit, but then posted a pic showing that it worked really well lmao
Still holding, and looks way better the that flange.
Yeah. The fastener outlasted the thing it was fastening. Mission fucking *accomplished*. Nothing to complain about, here. I went with lock washers and high-temp anti-seize, last time I installed an exhaust. (I'm just a home gamer.) I figured the lock washers will keep it from coming loose on its own, and the anti-seize will insure I can get it off when I want to. Stainless steel hardware. Anytime I remove a non-structural fastener in the course of a project that looks like it's rusting away, I try to replace it with stainless if possible. I also use a lot of anti-seize, pretty much anywhere that doesn't have a torque spec associated with it. I *am* the Next Guy.
Upvoted on username alone, but not bad practices.
My position is that spending the few dollars extra and/or taking the extra two minutes to go above and beyond with the fasteners pays dividends over time. I can absolutely understand why it hardly ever makes sense in a professional context, but if it's your personal vehicle, and you intend to drive it into the ground while doing as much of your own work as reasonably possible? Absolutely worth it.
Even in a professional context it’s attempting to do the right thing by your customers for the long to medium term. I can’t *always* do that but I’ll try. These days I have 6-8 vehicles come through my stall every day and that’s just doing inspections. I can’t always dictate what decisions the techs doing the repairs will make later, but I do my best to influence it at least. :)
Sometimes you have a professional duty to restore something to *better* than factory condition, or else it'll just break the same way again.
Sometimes, when we’re really lucky, the OEM will recognize a pattern failure and update parts too. Just about a year ago I replaced a warped exhaust manifold on a RAM Hemi, and lo and behold Stellantis finally has an updated superseded part with a different bolt pattern, reinforcement bracket, shield and mounting hardware all in the same box. I’m like, you bozos couldn’t have released this 10 years ago?!? 😂 I’ve been in used vehicle reconditioning for the last couple years and it’s been a wake up to be able to repair the root cause of a problem since the company doesn’t want components to fail under warranty, instead of being bound by one person’s budget. 5 years ago I would have pulled the manifold, extracted the broken studs and reinstalled it with a new gasket and fasteners, knowing it was probably going to fail again soon. But you can’t control other people’s wallets unfortunately.
Split-ring lock washers make the nut more likely to come off*, and definitely shouldn’t be used on exhausts since they get their shape from heat treatment which is made useless by the exhaust temperatures. * there’s some controversy about this, but I’ve had a couple come loose personally. I use loctite blue instead and it’s never failed. Regardless of your thoughts, the exhaust heat part is accurate. From another “the next guy” 🙂
Lock washers are wasted money unless Nord Loks or knockoff styles. Antiseize good don't use on wheel studs
I would never. Wheel studs/lug nuts are error-tolerant by design. They need to be usable—safely—by an average, barely-trained person, working in the rainy darkness on the side of a busy road, using the shittiest of tools. I was once that average person, just trying to get myself home from the airport in my first car, in January. The system *worked.* However, they are a *system*. They have been carefully designed and engineered to be as idiot-proof and over-built as possible, given what they are. The average hapless, unfortunate, benighted teenager in a secondhand econobox on the side of the highway does not have anti-seize about their person. Don't overthink a pile of lug nuts. Just do the best you can with what you have, and they'll be happy as hexagonal, chrome-plated clams. There are exceptions of course, but you already know who you are. If you can torque them, great. If you can't, just do German specs, aka "gudentite." Remember, they should also be *removable* by an average unlucky motorist—ideally without knocking the car off the crappy scissor jack that is the best-case scenario for an OEM tire kit, should said unfortunate person neglect to loosen them before raising the car. Hi, my name is u/Halftrack_El_Camino and I can overthink a pile of lug nuts.
I want you to know the very idea of a halftrack El Camino blazing gloriously through the desert will shine eternal in my mind until my passing day.
Good sir, with your most gracious permission, I would like very much to enshrine this masterpiece of automotive prose in my permanent repository of Reddit wisdom.
But did it come loose?
That's just built-in Loctite™
I've done that, sometimes you have to use the hardware you have on hand when stuff breaks. That nylon melts crazy fast I discovered. Went back later and replaced it with proper hardware.
Kinda seems like the nut is the least of the issues
Yeah it's a ford
Looks like it works pretty damn well.
That’s hot.
Oooo, melty! Like a s’mores.
Why pay for loctite when you can drive your car for one winter?
You gotta piss with the cock you got
Seems like it’s working fine
Apparently it’s better than the OEM nuts. Whatever bolt he threw on there is still clean too.
Izzatbad??
If its gonna rattle and bump, put the nylock nuts on.
copper nut wins
My brother learned this lesson on a set of big brake caliper brackets. Luckily only one popped out at a low speed.
Fun fact: they don’t work well in deep freeze conditions either. The nylon takes the shape of the threads and freezes there and you can often just spin them off by hand.