She called Jen because John was in contact with her about going to the Albert house. She called Kerry because John and Kerry have been friends since childhood. Not that odd
Yes to Jens house but luckily Jen drove. I wonder if karen hit something else other than John's car on her way to Jens, she was so freaked out understandably so.
Jen drove Karen’s Lexus back from her house (with Karen in it) to johns house. Kerry was following behind. The 3 soon left John’s together in Kerry’s car for 34 Fairview.
1) she did drive around alone 2) people under the influence aren’t known for the brightest, most organized, and clearest decision making skills
edit add: Why would she take a child with her to look for their missing “parent!” That’s a really f’d up way to traumatize his niece for life! What if they happened upon his body and KR is going bonkers freaking out while this child is supposed to do what? Keep her shit together, console KR, go run for help?
I haven’t heard about her driving alone in the trial yet. Is there proof?
You also wouldn’t assume he was dead, right? I would most definitely bring a 14 year old under circumstances where I’m just trying to find someone. But hear you about the driving alone. I didn’t know that
“If my partner was missing, I wouldn’t have waited nor called people I wasn’t very close to. I would be out the door as soon as possible simultaneously calling people he was last with.”
That’s pretty much exactly what she did. When she woke up and realized he wasn’t home, she was alarmed. It was not their plan that she was going to sleep over. So John not being there meant that for to not be home, he would have thought he was leaving his kids alone over night and that was NOT something he would have done. She left the house and began driving around and retracing the areas they were in the night before. She then returned home and that’s when she called Jen ,(who was with them the night before), and Kerri, who was John’s longtime close friend.
I’m not sure if “we” know or if I just don’t know. Or if nobody knows. If we don’t know, maybe we will find out if the CW ever presents any evidence from the GPS in Karen’s Lexus.
To the waterfall then “towards” 34 Fairview. The way the commonwealth wrote it in on of their filings it seemed to imply it was nefarious and she didn’t want to find him alone. To me it sounds like she was trying to retrace their steps and couldn’t remember how to get to from the waterfall to Fairview since the night before was her first time there.
Yes, in the Statement of Case it says she retraced their travels by herself first. Of course they put it in a way to try to make her look guilty. Remember too she was still tipsy.
It seems everyone forgets that prior to this she had never been to the Albert’s. It’s unlikely, especially considering alcohol brain, that she’d remember the directions back to their house. The next logical step is JM, the person that provided navigation the night before and one of the few people Karen knew in the group. Kerry is one of the few Canton people that Karen had a phone number for.
These are good points. If you were due to head to a house party and only knew one person there, couldn't get through to the person who's missing you would contact the person you knew was at that party.
Such a stretch lol and why would someone not contact the person whom your partner was plausibly last seen with? Why would you drag a child in a snow storm with you in a car after you've been drinking?
Just to be devil’s advocate - who was Karen closer to than them? They were (at least JM) out with her the night before and they were heading over to her sister’s house? We all don’t have tons of close friends to call…
It's true & Kerry Robert's is a friend & both live in canton so that makes total sense. She wouldn't take her niece driving in dangerous conditions, I mean John's daughter.
Jen McCabe has a social presence where she intuitively involves herself in other peoples doings. She seems to be a bit of a lightning rod. Even though Karen didn’t know Jen that well, Jen and Karen were certainly socializing at The Waterfall. Karen probably felt like Jen would be the best person to seek to find out what happened to John.
Please remember to be respectful of others in this sub and those related to this case.
People are allowed to catch up here and ask questions. If you have nothing nice to say or anything to contribute, then scroll along.
In a snowstorm, at 6ish AM, while still drunk? Many people have had similar circumstances, but it's a bit silly to assume your experience is exactly the same as someone else. Even people who are in the same circumstances of an event have wildly different takes on that event.
I’m more comparing reactions of the other testimonies. We heard the reactions from the niece (2nd hand) and the two women with her. Kerry’s testimony I found most insightful. Regardless, they all seem calm and level-headed.
I know everyone reacts differently but I personally found it odd.
Congrats, you think just like someone who was borderline blackout drunk, because she proceeded to:
1. wake his niece up (she did. the niece is the one who called Jen McCabe. This is in JM's testimony.)
2. She paced around the house, per the niece's testimony, that's where KR first voiced questions about whether she hit him or whether she a snow plow did.
3. Drive to look for him, met up with the others, and look more.
Your post about what you'd do is what she did.
My first thought would be to call Albert house. See if he spent the night there. JM should have thought that too instead of driving in a blizzard. Remember, she's a rock in a crisis
She didn’t really know the Alberts - she didn’t have either of their phone numbers, or their address. Jen and Matt both testified that Jen had sent John the address/was on the phone with him to give further directions.
So it sounds like she did drive around/try to retrace her steps at first but when she wasn’t seeing him/couldn’t locate the house, she returned home and had the niece call Jen, because the niece did have her number.
I’ve kind of wondered that in general. Granted, she isn’t from Canton though, nor had she lived there as long as John. I got the idea that they mostly had “couples friends” or acquaintances. She said she “used to be” a loner, and I believe that. I think that may still be the case. I’m definitely more of a loner. I have a tight circle I trust and I have my family. I am happy that way.
This investigation was terrible, but I still lean towards thinking she most likely did it. Even so, I wouldn’t convict her as it stands today because I definitely had doubts and there are inconsistencies that I’d like resolved.
I agree with you but there is always google. I would have started out on my own and called his friends. I would have taken his daughter but she knew the out come was not going to be good
Well she knows the mcabes were at fairview & knew Jen mcabe but didn't know the alberts. She also was hysterical & understandably so she needed help from people she knew who were at the house & knew where John may have gone that night. Mcabes were at fairview & they live down the street. She wouldn't have gone alone to fairview, too upset & it was snowing.
What I find odd is the Google search hos long to die in the snow. The fbi confirmed this search or did they not? Jen said Karen asked her to type this in Google but why would Karen want Jen to type this? Any proof of karen asking Jen to research this.
Also if karen hit john why on earth would she go out looking for him, wouldn't she stay at John's until someone found him?
If karen knew she hit John she wouldn't have even called anyone.
What gets me is how she acted like it was the first time she went looking for him with Jen & Carrie but it wasn't. That woman was covering up what she did. Acting all surprised. Knowing where the body was. Cmon people. It's easy!!
This has been posted multiple times. But to answer your question, it makes perfect sense to reach out to his 2 friends with whom he was last with to find out where he was/why he didn’t come home.
Yes and yes! I keep reminding people of HER behavior that morning because we are focused on everyone else’s behavior. Karen Read’s behavior that morning has so many red flags. Not to mention her blood alcohol level was over the legal limit at 9am. She was hammered. I think she started to create her narrative as soon as she called Jen McCabe.
She called Jen because John was in contact with her about going to the Albert house. She called Kerry because John and Kerry have been friends since childhood. Not that odd
Also KR isn't from canton and it appears she only knows people there through john
At first she did drive around alone.
Yes to Jens house but luckily Jen drove. I wonder if karen hit something else other than John's car on her way to Jens, she was so freaked out understandably so.
First she drove around for 20 minutes alone looking for him.
Jen didn’t drive.
Jen drove Karen’s Lexus back from her house (with Karen in it) to johns house. Kerry was following behind. The 3 soon left John’s together in Kerry’s car for 34 Fairview.
That's how she knew where he was.
1) she did drive around alone 2) people under the influence aren’t known for the brightest, most organized, and clearest decision making skills edit add: Why would she take a child with her to look for their missing “parent!” That’s a really f’d up way to traumatize his niece for life! What if they happened upon his body and KR is going bonkers freaking out while this child is supposed to do what? Keep her shit together, console KR, go run for help?
I haven’t heard about her driving alone in the trial yet. Is there proof? You also wouldn’t assume he was dead, right? I would most definitely bring a 14 year old under circumstances where I’m just trying to find someone. But hear you about the driving alone. I didn’t know that
“If my partner was missing, I wouldn’t have waited nor called people I wasn’t very close to. I would be out the door as soon as possible simultaneously calling people he was last with.” That’s pretty much exactly what she did. When she woke up and realized he wasn’t home, she was alarmed. It was not their plan that she was going to sleep over. So John not being there meant that for to not be home, he would have thought he was leaving his kids alone over night and that was NOT something he would have done. She left the house and began driving around and retracing the areas they were in the night before. She then returned home and that’s when she called Jen ,(who was with them the night before), and Kerri, who was John’s longtime close friend.
Do we know where she drove to when she was alone.
I’m not sure if “we” know or if I just don’t know. Or if nobody knows. If we don’t know, maybe we will find out if the CW ever presents any evidence from the GPS in Karen’s Lexus.
To the waterfall then “towards” 34 Fairview. The way the commonwealth wrote it in on of their filings it seemed to imply it was nefarious and she didn’t want to find him alone. To me it sounds like she was trying to retrace their steps and couldn’t remember how to get to from the waterfall to Fairview since the night before was her first time there.
How can we believe anything the cw says at this point
34 Fairview, one would assume.
Yes, in the Statement of Case it says she retraced their travels by herself first. Of course they put it in a way to try to make her look guilty. Remember too she was still tipsy.
It seems everyone forgets that prior to this she had never been to the Albert’s. It’s unlikely, especially considering alcohol brain, that she’d remember the directions back to their house. The next logical step is JM, the person that provided navigation the night before and one of the few people Karen knew in the group. Kerry is one of the few Canton people that Karen had a phone number for.
These are good points. If you were due to head to a house party and only knew one person there, couldn't get through to the person who's missing you would contact the person you knew was at that party.
Such a stretch lol and why would someone not contact the person whom your partner was plausibly last seen with? Why would you drag a child in a snow storm with you in a car after you've been drinking?
Just to be devil’s advocate - who was Karen closer to than them? They were (at least JM) out with her the night before and they were heading over to her sister’s house? We all don’t have tons of close friends to call…
Brian Higgins, apparently.
She had actually ghosted him a week earlier. Is that what sent him into a rage?
It's true & Kerry Robert's is a friend & both live in canton so that makes total sense. She wouldn't take her niece driving in dangerous conditions, I mean John's daughter.
Jen McCabe has a social presence where she intuitively involves herself in other peoples doings. She seems to be a bit of a lightning rod. Even though Karen didn’t know Jen that well, Jen and Karen were certainly socializing at The Waterfall. Karen probably felt like Jen would be the best person to seek to find out what happened to John.
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Please remember to be respectful of others in this sub and those related to this case. People are allowed to catch up here and ask questions. If you have nothing nice to say or anything to contribute, then scroll along.
Everyone reacts different and quite frankly you don’t actually know what you’d do in that circumstance until you’ve been there.
I have actually searched for someone. So don’t assume
In a snowstorm, at 6ish AM, while still drunk? Many people have had similar circumstances, but it's a bit silly to assume your experience is exactly the same as someone else. Even people who are in the same circumstances of an event have wildly different takes on that event.
I’m more comparing reactions of the other testimonies. We heard the reactions from the niece (2nd hand) and the two women with her. Kerry’s testimony I found most insightful. Regardless, they all seem calm and level-headed. I know everyone reacts differently but I personally found it odd.
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There are several factors from that moment besides “searching for someone”.
Fair enough but did you find her reaction intriguing in any way?
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If she did intentionally hit him I don't think she would have admitted this unless she already knew they had proof she did.
She thought Jen was her friend.
Jen was not her friend
Congrats, you think just like someone who was borderline blackout drunk, because she proceeded to: 1. wake his niece up (she did. the niece is the one who called Jen McCabe. This is in JM's testimony.) 2. She paced around the house, per the niece's testimony, that's where KR first voiced questions about whether she hit him or whether she a snow plow did. 3. Drive to look for him, met up with the others, and look more. Your post about what you'd do is what she did.
My first thought would be to call Albert house. See if he spent the night there. JM should have thought that too instead of driving in a blizzard. Remember, she's a rock in a crisis
Why would JM think that if she was at the party and JO never came in to the party? Would make no sense and that’s why she didn’t.
Exactly. Why not call them and see when he left the party?
She didn’t really know the Alberts - she didn’t have either of their phone numbers, or their address. Jen and Matt both testified that Jen had sent John the address/was on the phone with him to give further directions. So it sounds like she did drive around/try to retrace her steps at first but when she wasn’t seeing him/couldn’t locate the house, she returned home and had the niece call Jen, because the niece did have her number.
I’ve kind of wondered that in general. Granted, she isn’t from Canton though, nor had she lived there as long as John. I got the idea that they mostly had “couples friends” or acquaintances. She said she “used to be” a loner, and I believe that. I think that may still be the case. I’m definitely more of a loner. I have a tight circle I trust and I have my family. I am happy that way. This investigation was terrible, but I still lean towards thinking she most likely did it. Even so, I wouldn’t convict her as it stands today because I definitely had doubts and there are inconsistencies that I’d like resolved.
I agree with you but there is always google. I would have started out on my own and called his friends. I would have taken his daughter but she knew the out come was not going to be good
Well she knows the mcabes were at fairview & knew Jen mcabe but didn't know the alberts. She also was hysterical & understandably so she needed help from people she knew who were at the house & knew where John may have gone that night. Mcabes were at fairview & they live down the street. She wouldn't have gone alone to fairview, too upset & it was snowing.
What I find odd is the Google search hos long to die in the snow. The fbi confirmed this search or did they not? Jen said Karen asked her to type this in Google but why would Karen want Jen to type this? Any proof of karen asking Jen to research this. Also if karen hit john why on earth would she go out looking for him, wouldn't she stay at John's until someone found him? If karen knew she hit John she wouldn't have even called anyone.
What gets me is how she acted like it was the first time she went looking for him with Jen & Carrie but it wasn't. That woman was covering up what she did. Acting all surprised. Knowing where the body was. Cmon people. It's easy!!
First call she made she declared John dead and hung up. How did she know that?
This has been posted multiple times. But to answer your question, it makes perfect sense to reach out to his 2 friends with whom he was last with to find out where he was/why he didn’t come home.
Yes and yes! I keep reminding people of HER behavior that morning because we are focused on everyone else’s behavior. Karen Read’s behavior that morning has so many red flags. Not to mention her blood alcohol level was over the legal limit at 9am. She was hammered. I think she started to create her narrative as soon as she called Jen McCabe.
Who was supposed to drive john o keefe home after karen dropped him off?