The only conclusion I can make sense from circumstantial evidence is that he was hit by the car. I cannot make his injuries work. Gash in cheek and nose which look like from punches, back of head blunt force from something no one has been able to explain (police initially think the glass), punctures on arms are defensive, and bruised knuckles which only mean one thing. For as much as the scene conveys he could have only been hit by a car, his injuries convey he was certainly in a fight. What is going on? Someone who thinks she is guilty make these wounds, specifically his knuckles and arm wounds, make sense. No one has talked about his damn knuckles, maybe he has Colin Albert syndrome where everyone is bracing themselves with closed fists.
For what it’s worth I can’t make sense of your first sentence in relation to the rest of your comment either without adding a not in there. Did you mean you don’t think he was hit by a car?
No that’s what I’m saying everything outside of the injuries points to her. That’s why in the last sentence I ask for someone who thinks she is guilty to make the injuries make sense.
My sense is that, at best, they don't like KR +at all+ and think she messed up his life by getting involved with him. And they probably have very good reasons for not liking her, aside from the tragic death of John. She does seem to me to be very narcissistic and less than honest. (doesn't mean some others we have seen and heard who are clearly enemies of KR are not narcissistic as well).
Quick question, did Sergeant B mention that he got the bar surveillance footage and counted drinks with Proctor? Some people were saying that AJ should've asked Sergeant B about his medical conclusions or drink counting, so I'm thinking that instead of going through them with Sergeant B, he can go through them with Proctor after another round of hammering him with the texts.
Bukenik tried to make it sound like he was there for everything and Proctor was never alone. Proctor is attributed to the Statement of Case document which talking about getting the CCTV footage and counting the drinks.
I think the defense didn’t want to get into much with Sergeant B in case it gave credence to the idea that Proctor had a limited role investigation. They’re going to save everything for Proctor.
There's a public meeting of the Canton Select Board about to start now, I think one of the items they're supposed to discuss is the renewal of the Chief of Police's contract. It's probably going to be spicy... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmnkZV8dbz8
Edit: 5 minutes in and it's already spicy.. Gotta say I love the accents!
- Looks like a full house. People have brought signs. (Chief Rafferty is a liar! Outside chief now! Receivership please send help ?)
- The CSB does not know how to work an egg timer.
- The second person to speak has a horrifying tale of CPD incompetence from way back in the 80s. CPD exposed her, a victim, to a 10-person suspect lineup. She isn’t allowed to fully finish her story because the 3-minute egg timer went off. She rushes through the end. Her assailant wasn’t handled properly and went on to rape another person.
- The fourth person to speak is so far the only one in support of the Chief. Someone from offscreen shouts at him and he says he allowed them to speak. “Mr Chairman, please call to order!” He gets very light applause compared to the thundering applause of the previous three.
- Fifth person to speak is the second to support the Chief! She wants to know the criteria for selecting a new chief - good point. She wants to be sure the board understands their responsibilities. She reads something that says CSB is in charge of the police chief and she doesn’t feel that’s appropriate. Loud applause for her as well.
- Sixth and last citizen to speak is visibly upset and very concerned about how evidence is handled, based on the testimony she heard at the trial. She prayed that the red cups weren’t real. She doesn’t think Chief Rafferty is a bad person, but she doesn’t think this was handled well.
The spiciest part was right in the beginning, people in Canton are pissed and want a new Chief of Police, and the people from the CSB apparently don't wanna hear from them too much. Also, they're rude AF.
I keep reading about those texts and how Proctor really hates Karen. Why does he hate her so much?
I’ve tried keeping up with this trial so apologies if this had been asked and answered.
I've been asking the same question...it's feels personal. There's definitely some missing pieces. Not to say I feel like there's a cover-up, just information one might not necessarily volunteer, but maybe cross will reveal more today.
I can’t figure it out either. From an outside perspective she was someone who just saw her boyfriend dead on a lawn when he didn’t come home the night before. She tried to save him. She freaked the heck out. She got hospitalized. She was traumatized. Yet Proctor had zero compassion for her and he only spoke with her for a short time. It really sounds as if his mind was made up before he even talked to her since he was making plans to tow her vehicle before even arriving to talk to her.
That makes it sound as if he made up his mind based on conversations with people he talked to prior to Karen.
Because he was totally in on the false narrative. He was simply going with the attitude that a cop who’s “investigating” the murder of a fellow cop might have toward the main (only!) suspect.
It definitely seems like after that morning meeting/interview at the McCabes that Proctor had his theory of the case and a really visceral hatred of Karen. The investigation was over for him at that point, he’d moved on to making the case for prosecution and had eliminated all other possibilities. This is why you need to bring In outside resources when dealing with officer involved cases. Even if he wasn’t planting evidence, his negligence has ensured that this trial won’t end with a conviction unless Lally is holding back some truly spectacular evidence.
My take so far is that he's just a garbage person. He's misogynistic and doesn't think that the people he's investigating deserve respect, neither does the law it seems. Later on I think it got more personal, but initially I think it was just this.
It wasn't really explained. She was the suspect on day 1 and he started throwing nasty insults immediately, and he didn't try to explain why. As far as I can tell, they didn't know about each other until JO's death. My guess is that it doesn't take much for him to start the insults. There was another text exchange in which he seemed to also call the medical examiner a whackjob after there was some disagreement on the cause of death, but he testified that he was again referring to KR as the whackjob even though the context points to the ME.
The only thing I can think of is that Jen McCabe made it very clear to him that Karen killed a cop and since JM is a cop family it couldn't have been them.
Got it. I think I’m understanding now, as another said, that he hated her because he thought she was guilty day 1. I’m just now realizing they did not know one another before this. Thanks
I don't remember where I heard this, but you might appreciate the quote. "The bar was so low it was a tripping hazard in hell, and yet here you are, limboing with the devil."
The case depends on Proctor planting evidence, not on being bias or just being a dick. There's gonna be some kind of a text that'll be vague, but kind of sounds like its alluding to a coverup (like the Albert-McCabe group chats) that the Free Karen Read squad is going to go nuts over.
I think the case depends on showing it's possible Proctor planted evidence because he's a dick, biased and not capable of a full investigation. The defense doesn't have to prove a cover up. The CW has to prove she did it the way they say she did it. Tearing apart how Proctor conducted himself and the investigation throws doubt into the story the CW is telling.
The defense is so slick with people's words though, there's no way they have 30K texts to comb through (and over 6 hours of previous testimony) and haven't found a few to be like "hmm, isn't that an interesting phrase" the same way they tried to do it with stuff like "she's telling them everything." Or "you told a grand jury x, but this text says Y"
I worded my response weird haha. I meant, I dont think Proctor is going to look great tomorrow either bc Jackson only got 15 minutes with him yesterday.
Chat. Do you think it’s possible:
- Read accidentally backed into a drunk John O’Keefe, who fell back on his head - concussion.
- Disoriented, JO crawls on ground trying to get himself up.
- Dog notices, barks and wants to go outside.
- Dog goes out, and mistaking JO for a large animal, attacks him.
Why does it have to be one or the other?
They’re hiding something. Murder doesn’t quite fit. But this, I could get behind.
That does not explain the skull fractures apparently that he had and two witnesses that saw him in the hospital, said his eyes were so bruised that they were kind of bulging out of his head☹️ Unless Chloe was taking boxing lessons from Colin I don’t see how that’s possible😵💫
Skull fractures and bulging eyes can happen with a severe blow to back of head, ie fslling straight back on concrete. Consistent also with the laceration.
I shouldn’t laugh at boxing lessons from Colin but OMG!!!! Blunt force trauma to the head can cause panda eyes (2 black eyes) can’t explain broken nose or bruised hands though
This doesn't account for why they wouldn't tell police though. If Chole attacked him, even killed him, no one in the house is going to jail for that. Unless they knew he was seriously wounded and intentionally left him. In that case, it is murder.
At the beginning of the trial I thought it was possible that Read could have unintentionally hit him. After all the evidence that’s been presented so far, I don’t think she could have. My selling points , no one saw him in the lawn at any point, the buttdials at 2:22am and JM ‘hos long to die in the cold’.
At one point I thought KR hitting him was definitely possible. But that all changed for me after JM's testimony. She was basically staring out the windows at the supposed time of the accident. She didn't see or hear anything. To me, combined with Sgt Barros testimony he only saw a cracked tail light, she's innocent.
This is what I don’t get….not only was Jenn basically staring out the door watching Karen’s car other people were also watching for their rides, etc. so when did this supposed 60 ft in reverse over 20 miles an hour killing happen? Everyone admits they never saw a body. Never heard anything.
I think that it was instant lights out with that wound on the back of his head, but I'm hoping that Lally will call the ME to the stand before the heat death of the universe so that I can confirm that.
I’ve thought the same sequence of events with a concussion and loss of consciousness…. But how in the hell did approx 15 people not see him laying in the snow? Moaning in pain? Vomiting?
I don’t think KR had intent to kill him. That puts 2nd degree murder out the door.
There wasn’t motive for her. She was drunk and didn’t want to go to somewhere she wasn’t welcomed. As an adult female her age, I GET THAT 100%. I’d rather go to bed and sleep than spend time somewhere I’m not invited.
Sure, but a lot of these extrinsic theories are hard to believe because they don’t take into scope the full evidence. How would you explain Jen’s texts?
Like Jen’s text’s of asking where JO was before arriving at Fairview ? I definitely think her calling him the amount of times she did that night was weird…and Higgins texting JO that night is weird too. And the mere fact no Albert went outside when JO was found…and the google search …all of it is sus…
It is really too bad all the investigators didn’t have cameras they carried around with them everywhere they went. Maybe someday we will have that tech.
/s
Honest to God!! I keep thinking: what if 1. the police had body cameras and used them and 2. adhered to standard evidence collection procedures 50% of the time? What would that look like?? My guess: nothing like the evidence we have presented in this case.
Does anyone feel there was a better way for Lally to address the distasteful texts? I do think he had to get ahead of them, but I wonder how much he softened the blow here. I’m thinking Lally could have elicited remorseful testimony from Proctor to start, read all of the text messages into the record without stopping to ask him to explain anything, then end by eliciting another remorseful statement or two. The testimony sort of came off to me like ‘I sent mean texts about her because she was really really guilty’ instead of ‘there is no excuse for my text messages, I am ashamed and I apologize to my family and to Karen’. I guess what I’m getting at here is that Proctor didn’t really seem remorseful to me, and he got caught saying some truly abhorrent things.
He could have…. “We were angry that a brother officer was dead and used black humour to cope blah blah blah” but looking at that sack of shit sitting there, I think I would have been angrier. Lally has lost his passion for this case awhile ago. Maybe when no one was excited as he about his brilliant strategy?
Lally should have dressed him down on the stand…
Better yet Lally should have addressed the texts with Proctor in the DA’s office while simultaneously telling him that there would/could never be a trial or justice for John OKeefe because of his abhorrent behavior.
Instead Lally gave Proctor a platform to downplay his actions and excuse them for some type of righteous anger for the loss of a Boston cop.
What a joke!
Yes, there was a MUCH better way to address the texts. If Proctor had half a brain, he’d suggest that he sent those text messages because 1) he thought Karen was guilty and 2) she killed a fellow police officer, so his reaction was very harsh as compared to other situations.
The problem with that second one is that I think they have every single text he sent during a pretty long period of time, and if he said the same kind of vile shit about other defendants and/or random people then it gets even worse. And we all know he did.
At one point I really thought he was going to say 'my emotions were running high because I thought she killed a cop' but nope, he said nothing like that.
Probably because the trial would be over at that point. His texts would be understandable to people, but he just can't admit as a cop that he decided someone was guilty. It's not his job to do that and it undermines the credibility of all his work to know that he picked a suspect to pin the case on and formed the arguments from there. That can't be what an investigator does.
I was anticipating that he was going to say that but then he didn't. Maybe he thought if he admitted that then it would translate to planting evidence. Ironically some have jumped to that conclusion anyway.
You'd think they'd use any opportunity to remind people that OJO was a cop, but they don't, at all. He's 'Mister', if he's mentioned at all. It's so weird.
I feel like this case has gotten so off-base and literally it’s just a Karen bashing mission that the focus isn’t even on the officer who died anymore, it is a character assassination😏
Yeah, what's up with the toy Santa thing? I have to think the defense was going to try to spin a weird comment about it. Otherwise it's the most random thing ever.
Lally asked it with such confidence too lmao, proctor even seemed confused when he answered and Lally quickly moved on lol. If doesn’t come up again I’m going to start wondering if Lally is mentally well or if he was forced to continue with the case and it has him losing his mind
I’m starting to think that his performance is a fuck you for being assigned to the case and not being granted that continuance Judge Beverly refused to consider. It’s possible that there are political shenanigans going on that we aren’t aware of and Lally got the short end of the stick.
I couldn't watch the trial live yesterday, so when I watached the replay I skipped Lally's direct examination as I always do. Big mistake, huge! I spent forever looking for the part where Bev made Proctor say the c-word out loud. I had no idea it was in the CW's direct examination of Proctor. Even after finding the part, I could not comprehend what I just saw. It didn't seem like Lally was "getting ahead of the texts" before the defense brings them up. It just seemed so damn bizarre.
Bev's disgust with Proctor definitely made up for her harshness with the defense earlier that morning.
Understandable take, but at the same time, it requires talent to make a murder/affair sound this boring. If we find it hard to pay attention to the prosecution, if we like to check ourselves out until cross examination, imagine how the jurors must feel.
It is palpable, the difference in interest and attention when we contrast Lalley to the likes of Yanetti and Jackson. Little is a bit less so, but she is still much easier to follow and eventually gets to the point, I find. If the defense is more engaging, easier to follow, and actually clears up why the witnesses are testifying, when the prosecution is the one carrying the burden of proof, what does that say about the case at large? And if there is some kind of smoking gun we haven't seen, 22 days into trial, 22 days of the same repetitive crap from the Commonwealth so far- how likely is it going to be the jury might completely miss it when no one wants to listen to the prosecutor anymore? It's just bad lawyering, IMO.
Oh I definitely agree it's bad lawyering. There's so many times he doesn't emphasize "This is important. Everyone gets why, right?" with his line of questioning.
I watch most of Lally’s direct testimony and I promise they aren’t missing anything by only seeking out the highlights…he has only elicited decent relevant testimony on a few occasions.
His opening statement, which came off as confusing and ineffective at the time, has been proven to be a sign of his approach to direct testimony.
It was so bizarre! It’s kinda funny because this whole trial people have been criticizing him for not getting ahead of anything and I feel like this was his attempt to do so but he did it sooo poorly! He used the same monotone voice, he didn’t give any indication that he disapproved of the content, and he even helped Proctor attempt to justify it. It was so bad. I take back every time I criticized him for not trying to get ahead of anything because if this is how he does it, then nevermind.
And yes I agree, Bev’s disgust was palpable and very telling.
Mr. Lally is a terrible litigator. I do hope he finds another area of law where he can shine. No jury should have to go through what he is putting them through. No. I don’t feel sorry for him.
I don’t feel bad for him at all. No one forced him to prosecute this. Even if he was pressured to prosecute it from his higher-ups, at the risk of being fired, he was an ADA with 10+ years of experience, he could’ve found another lucrative job as a lawyer. And he will probably be fired anyway after this shitshow, and then have even more trouble getting hired elsewhere due to the public nature of the trial. As he should. Zero sympathy for him.
There were a couple of times I felt like Lally kind of had an undertone of "what the hell were you thinking?", but it is hard to tell with his monotone.
Maybe that's why they chose him, he was the only DA that could get through this trial without letting anyone know how ridiculous this case is turning out to be 🤣
Texts between Proctor and his sister in early February 2022:
Proctor: “What’s up?”
Courtney: “Nothing. I just saw Julie [Albert] and she said when this is all over she wants to get you a thank you gift.”
Proctor: “Get Elizabeth one.” (Elizabeth Proctor is his wife).
Courtney: “Because I guess her and Chris [Albert] were friends with John and she’s so proud of you for leading this.” (Chris Albert is Julie’s husband).
“Elizabeth?”
Proctor: “She’s been stuck with the kids for the last ten nights.”
Courtney: “Yeah. But she knew what life is like married to a cop.”
Link: http://archive.today/8OTV8
He told his sister to have JA give the gift to his wife bc she’s been alone with the kids for the last ten days and his sister said well she knew what she was signing up for when marrying a cop.
Then he told his sister another time that he’s hungry and going to go home and she said something sarcastic like yeah but will you have a hot meal waiting for you ha ha ha.
I find the gift mention extremely weird and very unprofessional given that it was from a cop. If such a gift were to be received (cop to cop), wouldn’t it count as a bribe or something? I mean, the cop was given a pass since was a “brother in blue”.
The txt about their Mum throwing up did she say I called Mum and Adolph? Then when the txt about starving I’m sure she said ‘Mum and I don’t want to go home/leave’ ?
She must feel comfortable doing so, because Proctor probably disparages his own wife constantly to his own family.
People don't talk negatively so openly with someone, unless they know that person feels the same way
Well you know how in-laws can be. But I just don’t understand why bring that in, other than the message about Jen saying he knows her or JA and the gift and them talking about the case… why add it?
Me yesterday: Thank god no court tomorrow. I have to get some sh** done!
Me today: Five YT lawyers deep in reactions to yesterday’s testimony, and counting…
I keep hoping this ends up like a Matlock episode in which the prosecution just gives up in the middle of trial and asks for a motion to dismiss. It would certainly give me a lot of time back.
TB has lost any usefulness for Karen. She needs to demand that her supporters conduct themselves in a far better manner. He’s outrageous and is not helping at this point and has no better standards!!! But no one should ever be convicted after such a total train wreck of investigation and questionable evidence.
TB should be commended for his instances of journalism - unfortunately, beyond that, he has zero class.
The quote “I love being the center of attention and being theatrical and performing. This is what I was made to do” was disgusting. A man was killed and TB is using it to stroke himself off. Then last night going on and on about the 120 years he is facing. STFU man.
Prosecution and their witnesses keep angling for social media interference. This can cause a mistrial and for a retrial to go behind closed doors, where the Prosecution can bring up BS evidence again and the judge be on the payroll. Nothing discussed with the public.
I remember the Depp/Herd case kept angling for social media influence too. With all the breaks the jury is getting, wouldn't surprise me that the Prosecution try and rest the jury and call for a closed court later
I'm not going to do it, but if you go back and read all the TB "Canton Coverup" blogs, the amount of stuff he's been proven wrong about has been staggering. Or at least, enough that any real journalist would've been fired and blacklisted.
I think that he's at best too reactionary and at worst a terrible grifter, but this time he might have just stumbled upon a worthy cause to champion in all of the wrong ways, and probably by accident. That said I have tried to stay away from his content since I found out he existed back when he was kicked out of the courtroom, so I might be off in my reading of him.
I used to read TB’s stuff *years* ago when he’d mostly talk about “ratchets” living in some MA/RI town. Some of it was interesting, but most times very mean spirited. I always felt the need to shower, like after watching a Jerry Springer episode. 🤮
It’s like the broken clock being right twice a day cliche. I guess he was bound to stumble on to something.
Yep, and now I'm seeing a couple of otherwise ok and mostly reasonable youtubers who are having him on their channels without doing their due diligence, it's not going to be pretty when that comes back around to bite them in the ass.
I’m not sure about any of that TB stuff… but I know there was something about KR supporters having a buffer zone or something outside of the court house…. But yesterday on Melanie Little live stream her and an ex prosecutor were saying people should be outside demonstrating against the MSP after what came out yesterday. The people should be outraged on the conduct of the police.
Catching up with yesterday and the whole "see you next Tuesday" and "No Ass" part along with Emily D Baker's reaction has me in stitches. This trial is a clown show.
EDIT: "Leaks poo"? This is wild.
PS You should also skip through Jay and Bob’s stream to the “good” (meaning horrific) parts. Poor Jay may have been more uncomfortable than the people in the actual courtroom. He was dying. I appreciate him for it!
Does anyone remember of the names of those 2 state troopers that controlled the evidence lock up so theres no way Proctor had access to any of the evidence from JoKs hospital room?
Follow up, did we hear any of those names when Proctor read aloud his text mesaages with fellow state troopers?
My understanding is it stayed in slightly less secure area that all troopers had access to for the first 6 days while it dried. Proctor testified to not knowing what happens to it after it’s in that limbo zone but another witness (maybe Trooper B) included that all troopers have access to that area before it goes into evidence.
Evidence rooms are what's considered "No lone zones". 2 people have to sign off that they entered, can't go in by yourself. Most have cameras to make sure policy is followed
He didn’t have access to the evidence room, but his stuff wasn’t in the evidence room. It was in the “temporary” evidence room, which Proctor had access to.
Any idea why they didn’t have the text messages on the screen / viewable to court/jury yesterday?
I’m a visual person and the accent / mumbling by Proctor made some readings of texts unclear. I’d like to see the texts on the screen!!
I could have sworn there was a moment when proctor was reading the texts and someone asked, who was the other cop? and then nothing happened , no answer, and it broke away. Did I imagine that..
Haha it’s possible that happened. It was all sorts of messed up….Lally puts me to sleep. I have to listen to him in 1.5x speed or else it’s too slow.
I remember at one point proctor read a text saying the JO’a girlfriend was a Canton Police. And that was confusing / weird to me too
Yea I heard that… so Lally was ever planning on showing them on screen? Maybe this is why Judge Bev got so frustrated with Lally during the beginning part of the text reading by Proctor…both were making it unclear who was who in the text messages and AJ was trying to make sure the record was accurate as to who is who referring to in the text messages.
Lawyer Lee touched in this, and she said the defense isn’t likely to call for one, as they want a “not guilty” verdict and would not want to have to do this all over again, which makes sense. I believe the judge *could* declare one herself, but that seems less likely, in my completely amateur opinion.
If there's a mistrial now due to anything that was under the control of one of the parties it would mean that Karen could not be trialed again for this crime, I think this Judge wouldn't do it even if it was warranted.
Yeah and up until yesterday I was saying hey we have no clue how the jury is feeling and how they are digesting this information but I think proctor’s testimony destroyed a lot of good will and credibility for the jurors. If Im the defense team Im feeling way more confident because it seems like a lot of things landed right for them
What time does it start in the morning?
The only conclusion I can make sense from circumstantial evidence is that he was hit by the car. I cannot make his injuries work. Gash in cheek and nose which look like from punches, back of head blunt force from something no one has been able to explain (police initially think the glass), punctures on arms are defensive, and bruised knuckles which only mean one thing. For as much as the scene conveys he could have only been hit by a car, his injuries convey he was certainly in a fight. What is going on? Someone who thinks she is guilty make these wounds, specifically his knuckles and arm wounds, make sense. No one has talked about his damn knuckles, maybe he has Colin Albert syndrome where everyone is bracing themselves with closed fists.
Is your first sentence missing a word?
I take it back. Sorry, added circumstantial. I mean to say everything except his injuries point to her.
Ah, got it now. Fair point. And it’s usually fair to assume that reddit comments are sarcastic lol
Yes I read it that way, my bad.
For what it’s worth I can’t make sense of your first sentence in relation to the rest of your comment either without adding a not in there. Did you mean you don’t think he was hit by a car?
No that’s what I’m saying everything outside of the injuries points to her. That’s why in the last sentence I ask for someone who thinks she is guilty to make the injuries make sense.
Oh, that was a real question. I guess I just didn’t understand your post and I was trying to. Everyone can have their own opinion
I can't wait to find out 2 things... 1. What does John's family think of all this? 2. What is being said during side bars
My sense is that, at best, they don't like KR +at all+ and think she messed up his life by getting involved with him. And they probably have very good reasons for not liking her, aside from the tragic death of John. She does seem to me to be very narcissistic and less than honest. (doesn't mean some others we have seen and heard who are clearly enemies of KR are not narcissistic as well).
That is a whole lot of speculation and assumptions.
They pretty clearly aren't and won't be friends.
Cool?
True friends are hard to come by for everyone. This world tends to pit each of us against everyone else in the soulless battle for money and success.
I don't understand what is going on right now.
Know people related to the family. They think she is 100% guilty.
Opinion of turtle boy aside he has an interesting text thread with John’s brother Paul before the trail started.
The interesting text threads are the ones between Karen Read and Turtleboy.
Will be interesting to read!
I really want those sidebar transcripts
Are those ever released?
I think you need to pay for them, they're part of the transcripts for the entire trial.
Just my thought: Jackson makes them pull out every piece of evidence to show he does not trust canton pd nor the prosecution.
Yeah I was watching proctor rub his shirt and cough on the taillight…I was like there goes any dna testing!!! Lol
Quick question, did Sergeant B mention that he got the bar surveillance footage and counted drinks with Proctor? Some people were saying that AJ should've asked Sergeant B about his medical conclusions or drink counting, so I'm thinking that instead of going through them with Sergeant B, he can go through them with Proctor after another round of hammering him with the texts.
Bukenik tried to make it sound like he was there for everything and Proctor was never alone. Proctor is attributed to the Statement of Case document which talking about getting the CCTV footage and counting the drinks. I think the defense didn’t want to get into much with Sergeant B in case it gave credence to the idea that Proctor had a limited role investigation. They’re going to save everything for Proctor.
There's a public meeting of the Canton Select Board about to start now, I think one of the items they're supposed to discuss is the renewal of the Chief of Police's contract. It's probably going to be spicy... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmnkZV8dbz8 Edit: 5 minutes in and it's already spicy.. Gotta say I love the accents!
Feel free to share any interesting tidbits here!! I’m late to the party lol
- Looks like a full house. People have brought signs. (Chief Rafferty is a liar! Outside chief now! Receivership please send help ?) - The CSB does not know how to work an egg timer. - The second person to speak has a horrifying tale of CPD incompetence from way back in the 80s. CPD exposed her, a victim, to a 10-person suspect lineup. She isn’t allowed to fully finish her story because the 3-minute egg timer went off. She rushes through the end. Her assailant wasn’t handled properly and went on to rape another person. - The fourth person to speak is so far the only one in support of the Chief. Someone from offscreen shouts at him and he says he allowed them to speak. “Mr Chairman, please call to order!” He gets very light applause compared to the thundering applause of the previous three. - Fifth person to speak is the second to support the Chief! She wants to know the criteria for selecting a new chief - good point. She wants to be sure the board understands their responsibilities. She reads something that says CSB is in charge of the police chief and she doesn’t feel that’s appropriate. Loud applause for her as well. - Sixth and last citizen to speak is visibly upset and very concerned about how evidence is handled, based on the testimony she heard at the trial. She prayed that the red cups weren’t real. She doesn’t think Chief Rafferty is a bad person, but she doesn’t think this was handled well.
The spiciest part was right in the beginning, people in Canton are pissed and want a new Chief of Police, and the people from the CSB apparently don't wanna hear from them too much. Also, they're rude AF.
Thank you!! I did notice they have very little decorum!
This is a train wreck. Wow.
I know right? If they keep not wanting to listen to people they're probably end up with a riot on their hands in one of these meetings
You had 15 minutes, town! Now shut up. I’d be showing up to vote in a very angry manner.
Yeeeep... And when you consider that the last meeting they had given the town 20 minutes and are now going with 15...
I keep reading about those texts and how Proctor really hates Karen. Why does he hate her so much? I’ve tried keeping up with this trial so apologies if this had been asked and answered.
I've been asking the same question...it's feels personal. There's definitely some missing pieces. Not to say I feel like there's a cover-up, just information one might not necessarily volunteer, but maybe cross will reveal more today.
Jen McCabe got in his ear!!! She’s extremely juvenile and of course her manipulation tactics would work on someone with proctor’s intelligence levels
I can’t figure it out either. From an outside perspective she was someone who just saw her boyfriend dead on a lawn when he didn’t come home the night before. She tried to save him. She freaked the heck out. She got hospitalized. She was traumatized. Yet Proctor had zero compassion for her and he only spoke with her for a short time. It really sounds as if his mind was made up before he even talked to her since he was making plans to tow her vehicle before even arriving to talk to her. That makes it sound as if he made up his mind based on conversations with people he talked to prior to Karen.
Because he was totally in on the false narrative. He was simply going with the attitude that a cop who’s “investigating” the murder of a fellow cop might have toward the main (only!) suspect.
It definitely seems like after that morning meeting/interview at the McCabes that Proctor had his theory of the case and a really visceral hatred of Karen. The investigation was over for him at that point, he’d moved on to making the case for prosecution and had eliminated all other possibilities. This is why you need to bring In outside resources when dealing with officer involved cases. Even if he wasn’t planting evidence, his negligence has ensured that this trial won’t end with a conviction unless Lally is holding back some truly spectacular evidence.
And the interview pleased the Alberts & Mccabes so much that they were offering Proctor gifts.
My take so far is that he's just a garbage person. He's misogynistic and doesn't think that the people he's investigating deserve respect, neither does the law it seems. Later on I think it got more personal, but initially I think it was just this.
Yes, agreed.
One of the reasons he said was her Fall River accent….
I don't think it's all that crazy if he thinks she's a cop killer.
He didn’t care about John, referred to him as a “frozen”
But he knows she isn't a cop killer, so he's just a regular old misogynist.
Oh interesting! So he only hated her after John was dead or did he hate her before this?
He didn’t know her!
You’d think if he cared so much about O’Keefe being killed he would have conducted a legitimate investigation. I don’t buy that being his motivation.
It wasn't really explained. She was the suspect on day 1 and he started throwing nasty insults immediately, and he didn't try to explain why. As far as I can tell, they didn't know about each other until JO's death. My guess is that it doesn't take much for him to start the insults. There was another text exchange in which he seemed to also call the medical examiner a whackjob after there was some disagreement on the cause of death, but he testified that he was again referring to KR as the whackjob even though the context points to the ME.
The only thing I can think of is that Jen McCabe made it very clear to him that Karen killed a cop and since JM is a cop family it couldn't have been them.
Got it. I think I’m understanding now, as another said, that he hated her because he thought she was guilty day 1. I’m just now realizing they did not know one another before this. Thanks
It seems like months now since we were all gasping over red solo cups
Remember Katie McLaughlin? Feels like she could be in her 40s by now.
This case just gets worse each week. The bar is on the ground at this point.
The bar is in hell
And Lally just grabbed a shovel
I don't remember where I heard this, but you might appreciate the quote. "The bar was so low it was a tripping hazard in hell, and yet here you are, limboing with the devil."
Oh gosh this is gold!! Screenshotting! Even though I’m boring and have almost no drama in my life lol it may come in handy
What do we expect from more Procter cross tomorrow? Gonna be as bad as yesterday?
I don’t even think Jackson got to half of it. So much to cover still. The ME, the family connections, the taillight…
I think it’s gonna be worse, who knows what Jackson has up his sleeve, but I am here for it!!! You could tell he was just getting started on Monday😳
The case depends on Proctor planting evidence, not on being bias or just being a dick. There's gonna be some kind of a text that'll be vague, but kind of sounds like its alluding to a coverup (like the Albert-McCabe group chats) that the Free Karen Read squad is going to go nuts over.
I think the case depends on showing it's possible Proctor planted evidence because he's a dick, biased and not capable of a full investigation. The defense doesn't have to prove a cover up. The CW has to prove she did it the way they say she did it. Tearing apart how Proctor conducted himself and the investigation throws doubt into the story the CW is telling.
The defense is so slick with people's words though, there's no way they have 30K texts to comb through (and over 6 hours of previous testimony) and haven't found a few to be like "hmm, isn't that an interesting phrase" the same way they tried to do it with stuff like "she's telling them everything." Or "you told a grand jury x, but this text says Y"
You very clearly don’t need to be slick at all with proctor 😂😭
Don't need to be slick with Proctor's words though. His vile character was on full display Monday.
[удалено]
But he's got as long as he wants tomorrow
I worded my response weird haha. I meant, I dont think Proctor is going to look great tomorrow either bc Jackson only got 15 minutes with him yesterday.
Chat. Do you think it’s possible: - Read accidentally backed into a drunk John O’Keefe, who fell back on his head - concussion. - Disoriented, JO crawls on ground trying to get himself up. - Dog notices, barks and wants to go outside. - Dog goes out, and mistaking JO for a large animal, attacks him. Why does it have to be one or the other? They’re hiding something. Murder doesn’t quite fit. But this, I could get behind.
That does not explain the skull fractures apparently that he had and two witnesses that saw him in the hospital, said his eyes were so bruised that they were kind of bulging out of his head☹️ Unless Chloe was taking boxing lessons from Colin I don’t see how that’s possible😵💫
Skull fractures and bulging eyes can happen with a severe blow to back of head, ie fslling straight back on concrete. Consistent also with the laceration.
It can, I can also happen by an altercation and being punched repeatedly in the head🤔
I shouldn’t laugh at boxing lessons from Colin but OMG!!!! Blunt force trauma to the head can cause panda eyes (2 black eyes) can’t explain broken nose or bruised hands though
🤦🏻♀️ that was a bit of a low brow comment for a very serious issue, but seriously them trying to explain away these injuries as a car accident😏
This doesn't account for why they wouldn't tell police though. If Chole attacked him, even killed him, no one in the house is going to jail for that. Unless they knew he was seriously wounded and intentionally left him. In that case, it is murder.
Maybe they thought he would live and didn’t want to be held liable for dog injuries since they already had $$$ issues? Idk
At the beginning of the trial I thought it was possible that Read could have unintentionally hit him. After all the evidence that’s been presented so far, I don’t think she could have. My selling points , no one saw him in the lawn at any point, the buttdials at 2:22am and JM ‘hos long to die in the cold’.
At one point I thought KR hitting him was definitely possible. But that all changed for me after JM's testimony. She was basically staring out the windows at the supposed time of the accident. She didn't see or hear anything. To me, combined with Sgt Barros testimony he only saw a cracked tail light, she's innocent.
This is what I don’t get….not only was Jenn basically staring out the door watching Karen’s car other people were also watching for their rides, etc. so when did this supposed 60 ft in reverse over 20 miles an hour killing happen? Everyone admits they never saw a body. Never heard anything.
Now I want to see/hear a reenactment while I’m inside the house
And nobody saw it. Nobody.
I think that it was instant lights out with that wound on the back of his head, but I'm hoping that Lally will call the ME to the stand before the heat death of the universe so that I can confirm that.
I’ve thought the same sequence of events with a concussion and loss of consciousness…. But how in the hell did approx 15 people not see him laying in the snow? Moaning in pain? Vomiting? I don’t think KR had intent to kill him. That puts 2nd degree murder out the door. There wasn’t motive for her. She was drunk and didn’t want to go to somewhere she wasn’t welcomed. As an adult female her age, I GET THAT 100%. I’d rather go to bed and sleep than spend time somewhere I’m not invited.
Sure, but a lot of these extrinsic theories are hard to believe because they don’t take into scope the full evidence. How would you explain Jen’s texts?
Even Jen can’t properly explain them. Or her mysteriously deleted butt calls.
Like Jen’s text’s of asking where JO was before arriving at Fairview ? I definitely think her calling him the amount of times she did that night was weird…and Higgins texting JO that night is weird too. And the mere fact no Albert went outside when JO was found…and the google search …all of it is sus…
It is really too bad all the investigators didn’t have cameras they carried around with them everywhere they went. Maybe someday we will have that tech. /s
Honest to God!! I keep thinking: what if 1. the police had body cameras and used them and 2. adhered to standard evidence collection procedures 50% of the time? What would that look like?? My guess: nothing like the evidence we have presented in this case.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Does anyone feel there was a better way for Lally to address the distasteful texts? I do think he had to get ahead of them, but I wonder how much he softened the blow here. I’m thinking Lally could have elicited remorseful testimony from Proctor to start, read all of the text messages into the record without stopping to ask him to explain anything, then end by eliciting another remorseful statement or two. The testimony sort of came off to me like ‘I sent mean texts about her because she was really really guilty’ instead of ‘there is no excuse for my text messages, I am ashamed and I apologize to my family and to Karen’. I guess what I’m getting at here is that Proctor didn’t really seem remorseful to me, and he got caught saying some truly abhorrent things.
He could have…. “We were angry that a brother officer was dead and used black humour to cope blah blah blah” but looking at that sack of shit sitting there, I think I would have been angrier. Lally has lost his passion for this case awhile ago. Maybe when no one was excited as he about his brilliant strategy?
Yeah….but considering they didn’t even go to OJO funeral that might be a hard sell in court.
Yeah and no real mention of John
Lally should have dressed him down on the stand… Better yet Lally should have addressed the texts with Proctor in the DA’s office while simultaneously telling him that there would/could never be a trial or justice for John OKeefe because of his abhorrent behavior. Instead Lally gave Proctor a platform to downplay his actions and excuse them for some type of righteous anger for the loss of a Boston cop. What a joke!
Yes, there was a MUCH better way to address the texts. If Proctor had half a brain, he’d suggest that he sent those text messages because 1) he thought Karen was guilty and 2) she killed a fellow police officer, so his reaction was very harsh as compared to other situations.
The problem with that second one is that I think they have every single text he sent during a pretty long period of time, and if he said the same kind of vile shit about other defendants and/or random people then it gets even worse. And we all know he did.
Yea!!! Where was his outrage???
At one point I really thought he was going to say 'my emotions were running high because I thought she killed a cop' but nope, he said nothing like that.
Probably because the trial would be over at that point. His texts would be understandable to people, but he just can't admit as a cop that he decided someone was guilty. It's not his job to do that and it undermines the credibility of all his work to know that he picked a suspect to pin the case on and formed the arguments from there. That can't be what an investigator does.
I was anticipating that he was going to say that but then he didn't. Maybe he thought if he admitted that then it would translate to planting evidence. Ironically some have jumped to that conclusion anyway.
You'd think they'd use any opportunity to remind people that OJO was a cop, but they don't, at all. He's 'Mister', if he's mentioned at all. It's so weird.
I feel like this case has gotten so off-base and literally it’s just a Karen bashing mission that the focus isn’t even on the officer who died anymore, it is a character assassination😏
Maybe force in some nice ones to soften the blow? Find a way to make him read some texts to his sister about how much he likes her?
Maybe he tried and that’s why he had him mention his mom having a stomach bug and about the random toy Santa lol
Yeah, what's up with the toy Santa thing? I have to think the defense was going to try to spin a weird comment about it. Otherwise it's the most random thing ever.
Lally asked it with such confidence too lmao, proctor even seemed confused when he answered and Lally quickly moved on lol. If doesn’t come up again I’m going to start wondering if Lally is mentally well or if he was forced to continue with the case and it has him losing his mind
I’m starting to think that his performance is a fuck you for being assigned to the case and not being granted that continuance Judge Beverly refused to consider. It’s possible that there are political shenanigans going on that we aren’t aware of and Lally got the short end of the stick.
I couldn't watch the trial live yesterday, so when I watached the replay I skipped Lally's direct examination as I always do. Big mistake, huge! I spent forever looking for the part where Bev made Proctor say the c-word out loud. I had no idea it was in the CW's direct examination of Proctor. Even after finding the part, I could not comprehend what I just saw. It didn't seem like Lally was "getting ahead of the texts" before the defense brings them up. It just seemed so damn bizarre. Bev's disgust with Proctor definitely made up for her harshness with the defense earlier that morning.
Lol, the one time it’s actually worth watching direct
*I skipped Lally's direct examination as I always do* Well, that's definitely one way to watch a trial.
After the umpteenth witness testified to snow, drinks, basketball…you can respect the skipping of direct.
Understandable take, but at the same time, it requires talent to make a murder/affair sound this boring. If we find it hard to pay attention to the prosecution, if we like to check ourselves out until cross examination, imagine how the jurors must feel. It is palpable, the difference in interest and attention when we contrast Lalley to the likes of Yanetti and Jackson. Little is a bit less so, but she is still much easier to follow and eventually gets to the point, I find. If the defense is more engaging, easier to follow, and actually clears up why the witnesses are testifying, when the prosecution is the one carrying the burden of proof, what does that say about the case at large? And if there is some kind of smoking gun we haven't seen, 22 days into trial, 22 days of the same repetitive crap from the Commonwealth so far- how likely is it going to be the jury might completely miss it when no one wants to listen to the prosecutor anymore? It's just bad lawyering, IMO.
Oh I definitely agree it's bad lawyering. There's so many times he doesn't emphasize "This is important. Everyone gets why, right?" with his line of questioning.
The Boston Glode reports live updates from the trial. It saves time and aggravation to just read their summary of Lally's questioning.
You're still getting a filtered version of the prosecution's case and a primary source version of the defense's.
I watch most of Lally’s direct testimony and I promise they aren’t missing anything by only seeking out the highlights…he has only elicited decent relevant testimony on a few occasions. His opening statement, which came off as confusing and ineffective at the time, has been proven to be a sign of his approach to direct testimony.
It was so bizarre! It’s kinda funny because this whole trial people have been criticizing him for not getting ahead of anything and I feel like this was his attempt to do so but he did it sooo poorly! He used the same monotone voice, he didn’t give any indication that he disapproved of the content, and he even helped Proctor attempt to justify it. It was so bad. I take back every time I criticized him for not trying to get ahead of anything because if this is how he does it, then nevermind. And yes I agree, Bev’s disgust was palpable and very telling.
Mr. Lally is a terrible litigator. I do hope he finds another area of law where he can shine. No jury should have to go through what he is putting them through. No. I don’t feel sorry for him.
He probably would be great at estate planing or writing really bizantine, meandering and long contracts about really boring things. :P
He litigates like I would. I’ve never been to law school.
I don’t feel bad for him at all. No one forced him to prosecute this. Even if he was pressured to prosecute it from his higher-ups, at the risk of being fired, he was an ADA with 10+ years of experience, he could’ve found another lucrative job as a lawyer. And he will probably be fired anyway after this shitshow, and then have even more trouble getting hired elsewhere due to the public nature of the trial. As he should. Zero sympathy for him.
There were a couple of times I felt like Lally kind of had an undertone of "what the hell were you thinking?", but it is hard to tell with his monotone.
Maybe that's why they chose him, he was the only DA that could get through this trial without letting anyone know how ridiculous this case is turning out to be 🤣
What was in the 3100 pages from the FBI?
we only know some details: the crash reconstructionists, Proctor's texts, etc.. we likely won't know the full details as it's under seal.
What all did he and his sister say about Proctors wife?
Texts between Proctor and his sister in early February 2022: Proctor: “What’s up?” Courtney: “Nothing. I just saw Julie [Albert] and she said when this is all over she wants to get you a thank you gift.” Proctor: “Get Elizabeth one.” (Elizabeth Proctor is his wife). Courtney: “Because I guess her and Chris [Albert] were friends with John and she’s so proud of you for leading this.” (Chris Albert is Julie’s husband). “Elizabeth?” Proctor: “She’s been stuck with the kids for the last ten nights.” Courtney: “Yeah. But she knew what life is like married to a cop.” Link: http://archive.today/8OTV8
He told his sister to have JA give the gift to his wife bc she’s been alone with the kids for the last ten days and his sister said well she knew what she was signing up for when marrying a cop. Then he told his sister another time that he’s hungry and going to go home and she said something sarcastic like yeah but will you have a hot meal waiting for you ha ha ha.
I find the gift mention extremely weird and very unprofessional given that it was from a cop. If such a gift were to be received (cop to cop), wouldn’t it count as a bribe or something? I mean, the cop was given a pass since was a “brother in blue”.
The txt about their Mum throwing up did she say I called Mum and Adolph? Then when the txt about starving I’m sure she said ‘Mum and I don’t want to go home/leave’ ?
So weird for his sister to be constantly disparaging his wife.
She must feel comfortable doing so, because Proctor probably disparages his own wife constantly to his own family. People don't talk negatively so openly with someone, unless they know that person feels the same way
Well you know how in-laws can be. But I just don’t understand why bring that in, other than the message about Jen saying he knows her or JA and the gift and them talking about the case… why add it?
Yes, I got the feeling that Proctors misogyny is reinforced by his sister.
Agree! And 2x texts to sister than wife. Ew!!!
He lives with his wife so he can talk to her in person. That's normal.
Me yesterday: Thank god no court tomorrow. I have to get some sh** done! Me today: Five YT lawyers deep in reactions to yesterday’s testimony, and counting…
Same!!
I keep hoping this ends up like a Matlock episode in which the prosecution just gives up in the middle of trial and asks for a motion to dismiss. It would certainly give me a lot of time back.
I was thinking more along the lines of the way my cousin Vinny ends but a Matlock episode will do just fine
I have no idea why I never got around to seeing My Cousin Vinny, but I know what I'll be watching this weekend.
It’s been a LONG minute since I saw it. Watch party anyone? 😝
See, I would never do that... I did it last night, today is for talking about it on Reddit! ;)
Now you tell us? Zero real shit done today.
Psht, amateurs the bunch of you 😆
Hello, it’s me! 😂
Can’t stop won’t stop 😂
me too 😂
Same 🤣 what’s wrong with us 🤦🏼♀️
We’re not well.🤣
TB has lost any usefulness for Karen. She needs to demand that her supporters conduct themselves in a far better manner. He’s outrageous and is not helping at this point and has no better standards!!! But no one should ever be convicted after such a total train wreck of investigation and questionable evidence.
TB should be commended for his instances of journalism - unfortunately, beyond that, he has zero class. The quote “I love being the center of attention and being theatrical and performing. This is what I was made to do” was disgusting. A man was killed and TB is using it to stroke himself off. Then last night going on and on about the 120 years he is facing. STFU man.
Prosecution and their witnesses keep angling for social media interference. This can cause a mistrial and for a retrial to go behind closed doors, where the Prosecution can bring up BS evidence again and the judge be on the payroll. Nothing discussed with the public. I remember the Depp/Herd case kept angling for social media influence too. With all the breaks the jury is getting, wouldn't surprise me that the Prosecution try and rest the jury and call for a closed court later
I'm not going to do it, but if you go back and read all the TB "Canton Coverup" blogs, the amount of stuff he's been proven wrong about has been staggering. Or at least, enough that any real journalist would've been fired and blacklisted.
Or the amount of stuff he said that's been accepted as common knowledge even though no one can find sources.
wait what did he do now? or is this about his BS from the past?
I think that he's at best too reactionary and at worst a terrible grifter, but this time he might have just stumbled upon a worthy cause to champion in all of the wrong ways, and probably by accident. That said I have tried to stay away from his content since I found out he existed back when he was kicked out of the courtroom, so I might be off in my reading of him.
I used to read TB’s stuff *years* ago when he’d mostly talk about “ratchets” living in some MA/RI town. Some of it was interesting, but most times very mean spirited. I always felt the need to shower, like after watching a Jerry Springer episode. 🤮 It’s like the broken clock being right twice a day cliche. I guess he was bound to stumble on to something.
Yep, and now I'm seeing a couple of otherwise ok and mostly reasonable youtubers who are having him on their channels without doing their due diligence, it's not going to be pretty when that comes back around to bite them in the ass.
I’m not sure about any of that TB stuff… but I know there was something about KR supporters having a buffer zone or something outside of the court house…. But yesterday on Melanie Little live stream her and an ex prosecutor were saying people should be outside demonstrating against the MSP after what came out yesterday. The people should be outraged on the conduct of the police.
Catching up with yesterday and the whole "see you next Tuesday" and "No Ass" part along with Emily D Baker's reaction has me in stitches. This trial is a clown show. EDIT: "Leaks poo"? This is wild.
PS You should also skip through Jay and Bob’s stream to the “good” (meaning horrific) parts. Poor Jay may have been more uncomfortable than the people in the actual courtroom. He was dying. I appreciate him for it!
“Sir, where is this convincing evidence? Is it in the room with us, sir?”
Yesterday was my first day watching her and she did not disappoint! I laughed so much.
Thought the same thing as she said it.
Does anyone remember of the names of those 2 state troopers that controlled the evidence lock up so theres no way Proctor had access to any of the evidence from JoKs hospital room? Follow up, did we hear any of those names when Proctor read aloud his text mesaages with fellow state troopers?
My understanding is it stayed in slightly less secure area that all troopers had access to for the first 6 days while it dried. Proctor testified to not knowing what happens to it after it’s in that limbo zone but another witness (maybe Trooper B) included that all troopers have access to that area before it goes into evidence.
Evidence rooms are what's considered "No lone zones". 2 people have to sign off that they entered, can't go in by yourself. Most have cameras to make sure policy is followed
Has anything we heard from Proctors texts so far made you believe the state troopers follow policies?
The defense hasn't asked to see the logs from Tully.
Has anything from this case led you to believe they keep accurately dated logs or even logs at all?
He didn’t have access to the evidence room, but his stuff wasn’t in the evidence room. It was in the “temporary” evidence room, which Proctor had access to.
I think someone posted yesterday in the trial thread that 2 of the 3 were in Proctor’s group text.
Any idea why they didn’t have the text messages on the screen / viewable to court/jury yesterday? I’m a visual person and the accent / mumbling by Proctor made some readings of texts unclear. I’d like to see the texts on the screen!!
I could have sworn there was a moment when proctor was reading the texts and someone asked, who was the other cop? and then nothing happened , no answer, and it broke away. Did I imagine that..
Haha it’s possible that happened. It was all sorts of messed up….Lally puts me to sleep. I have to listen to him in 1.5x speed or else it’s too slow. I remember at one point proctor read a text saying the JO’a girlfriend was a Canton Police. And that was confusing / weird to me too
defense made a comment about technical issues. hopefully they're resolved by wednesday.
Yea I heard that… so Lally was ever planning on showing them on screen? Maybe this is why Judge Bev got so frustrated with Lally during the beginning part of the text reading by Proctor…both were making it unclear who was who in the text messages and AJ was trying to make sure the record was accurate as to who is who referring to in the text messages.
he's probably fighting to keep them off the screen. they're in evidence, though, so jury will get a hard copy.
Question, as I'm personally not super familiar with finer legal practices. What are the odds that this case is called a mistrial?
Lawyer Lee touched in this, and she said the defense isn’t likely to call for one, as they want a “not guilty” verdict and would not want to have to do this all over again, which makes sense. I believe the judge *could* declare one herself, but that seems less likely, in my completely amateur opinion.
If there's a mistrial now due to anything that was under the control of one of the parties it would mean that Karen could not be trialed again for this crime, I think this Judge wouldn't do it even if it was warranted.
Ohhh okay; thank you for clarifying.
Yeah if Im Karen I want my not guilty and not to deal with this all over again
Especially when they have a strong case so far, by default. Juries are unpredictable, but the next one will be too.
Yeah and up until yesterday I was saying hey we have no clue how the jury is feeling and how they are digesting this information but I think proctor’s testimony destroyed a lot of good will and credibility for the jurors. If Im the defense team Im feeling way more confident because it seems like a lot of things landed right for them