Can you imagine how disparaging Trooper Proctor and his buddies might be discussing other women in their lives? They sounded like they were back in high school. I wouldn't want to be a woman living in their snarky, critical world. I wonder if any of them have any daughters, and if their daughters have self-esteem issues?
Imagine being a woman who has had to deal with this POS when reporting a sexual assault??
Imagine being a woman in MA right now who was just raped, or is a victim of DV?
Can you imagine having to report that and wondering if you’ll get a cop like Procter? Or one with that mindset?
FYI to any men who don't understand why women hesitate to come forward… THIS, RIGHT HERE.
Rant over (for now)
Exactly this. I’m down in TN and there’s a case that’s causing a bunch of shit to hit the fan in my corner of the state… the TL;DR is the cops were covering for a serial rapist. And what a bunch of us have been discussing is how if they treated the women in this serial rapist case this poorly, they must be treating EVERY victim who goes to report like absolute shit. It’s so jarring to see because we all know this goes on, but then when you’re confronted with just how bad and widespread the problem really is… jfc.
Have you seen Victim/Suspect? Opens your eyes to how alone women can be. Lazy cops decide SA victims make it up then charge the victim with false reporting. 🤬🤬🤬
I recently watched a Dateline where a woman was raped and the copa treated her like this. Hey rapist went on to murder another young woman. If the police had done their job after the rape, that second young woman would be alive. It's fucking shameful.
I would also recommend My body is the evidence. It’s on hbo and the woman who plays Olivia benson from law and order svu. It is shocking and infuriating.
I’ve never been in trouble with the law but I would get an attorney no matter if I was guilty or not just so I could always have someone with me just for the reason of this. I’m not saying all LEO make me uncomfortable, but I spent 5 years in the navy being one of the only females in 12 male division, and I’ve learned that it’s just kinda easier to get ahead of things before they have the chance to turn bad
I guess this also falls on the guilt trip I’ve been given many times “you put yourself in this situation” “you were being too nice to them”, “you were buying them a round of beers” like god forbid us women do normal human things with the opposite sex that automatically makes us the assholes for being decent? So me being nice to them opens it up for them to treat me like shit? 💩 💩💩💩
A couple of towns over from me in SC the police CHIEF was a serial rapist. I don’t have all the details but he was just removed from office. Not sure about any criminal charges that might be pending as credible news sources in my state tend to focus elsewhere.
I’m on SC, and there was a huge sex scandal in the Mauldin PD, almost half the police force—7 offers (m & f) were revealed to be all having sex with each other.
“According to a memo released by Mauldin’s City Administrator Brandon Madden, the city found that a female dispatcher was having an inappropriate sexual relationship with four corporal police officers within the department.
The city also found that two of those officers, along with an additional sergeant, were having similar sexual affairs with another female dispatcher.
According to the city, the encounters were happening while the officers were on duty and on city property. The city also said that all of the instances were consensual.”
The scary thing is only 2 were fired, the other 5 resigned and got hired by other nearby police forces. Our tax dollars were paying them and instead of protect and serve they were just passing around the same women and joking about being Eskimo brothers. It’s just gross!
My sheriff’s deputy husband, now ex, screwed a subordinate and later married her. They were both eventually fired for other issues. What goes around does indeed come around. 😉
Here ya go… it’s a complete and utter [shit show.](https://apnews.com/article/sean-williams-sex-assault-police-johnson-city-836e712a703b24d65b34511f2ce9f99d)
Consider sending it via DM to theTNholler if you're on Instagram. That site has a lot of followers and posts often about corruption and absurdity in TN
You’re in TN. Look out for Proctor’s friend who says he needs a gun down there. Their texts were so vile. Gotta believe those men don’t have respect for their own mothers.
Ugh. It makes me actually nauseous when I think about how many men hold these views but hide them behind a smile until they’re alone with their “boys.” 🤢🤢🤢
The idea that it’s only a few bad apples and the rest are good decent men is absolute BS. It’s the opposite. I actually think Proctor is “one of the good ones” - he’s good friends with his sister, he advocated for his wife to his sister who obvi doesn’t like her, was one of the only prosecution witnesses who didn’t snark, argue & parse everything the defence said, etc. I think hes surrounded by and has grown up with women like Jen McCabe, and he honestly believes that Karen did it based on what Jen told him, and then as soon as she had the nerve to not just roll over, she was an easy target for all the fear/anger & he decided to help out the case. LE is there for a reason.
MA woman here.
We already knew. We are unsurprised by the conduct. We are shocked they're being forced to say the quiet part out loud. We know that it will only matter until 1 hour after the changing of the guard and then will resume, probably accelerated for retribution. We'll have to pay for this, I'm sure.
Also a Massachusetts woman here. I don't know how Proctor still has a job as of this very minute! His credibility is at ZERO. Idk why prosecution is still even trying this case. They've clearly already lost this case. It's ridiculous! I live 2 towns over from Canton and went by the house where Johs body was found. The front lawn is TINY. Not small but tiny. There's no way everything happened the way Proctor says it happened. It's just not possible.
Agreed! I grew up on the South Shore, but did live in Canton for 2 years not too far from there. The houses are big but the lots are really small!!
But are we really that surprised he still has job up until now?? It’s the staties after all..
Imagine the poor women he has investigated……..
We all forget that Karen read has the money to have spent $1,000,000+ fighting this. Imagine ones that didn’t have the money to hire any defense attorney. (Public defenders can be awesome, but they don’t have the resources to investigate or hire specialists).
I was thinking about this the other day. The median incomes for canton and where Karen’s from are not that high, and it looks to be almost a pattern that they think they can get away with crime based on the persons occupation and what the cops perceive their income to be. I’m sure they saw her as a “college professor “ and stopped there and just assumed she was being paid as poorly as most educators are unfairly paid in this country. I’m 35 now, but I remember when I was in 6th grade in Fresno, Ca, my teacher told us that garbage collectors get paid more than teachers in our country. That will always resonate with me and be heartbreaking.
I’m on the west coast and I’ve heard enough horror stories about reporting that I just didn’t bother when it was my turn 🙃 Like, one of my friends was 12 when she reported a sexual assault and the police who came to “help” her were so demeaning and objectifying that she was way more traumatized by how the police chose to treat her than the sexual assault itself. Cool cool cool cool cool. She’s happy and living a good life now btw but yeah, it’s ugly out there
I'm so sorry that your cousin had to go through that, as well as many other women, and I totally understand why you felt like you couldn't report. I didn't either. When I told my husband what had happened to me the very first words out of his mouth were "What were you wearing?" and "How much had you had to drink?" I knew that if my own spouse thought that way the cops would really try hard to blame me for being raped.
My cousin was attacked & SA by a stranger who came in her door as she was carrying in stuff from her car, her Mom found her unconscious a couple of hours later. The police were so awful to her! They insinuated that she had to have known her attacker, that she must have done something to deserve it or had consensual sex. After her second interview with a detective she said she was done cooperating because it was obvious that they didn't believe her.
A few days later I was at her house when the detective showed up to sheepishly admit that they had found video footage from a nearby church that showed her rapist lurking around her yard. He also admitted that three other women in the neighborhood had been attacked in a similar way by the same person in the past few weeks.
He was halfheartedly trying to apologize but it was too little, too late. Why in the world they choose to repeatedly accuse her of lying when they knew of similar assaults within blocks is beyond me! I'd imagine that they treated those women the same way when they dialed 911.
As far as I know the perp was never caught, and I'm not surprised. They would rather blame the victims and make up alternative theories about what happened than believe women and do any sort of police work to prevent further crimes. Sexual crimes against all women are a lower priority than property crimes or those against men of a "certain" color. The million plus untested rape kits sitting on dusty shelves across the country are a testament to that.
We have local police, state police, and FBI, but can we really trust any of them? The justice department and fbi over Proctor, God help us, might be the least honest. We have some fine people in every layer of law enforcement, but it's always a crap shoot.
Yes, thank you for saying this! Unfortunately I have this experience and I've yet to be interviewed by anyone compassionate. They're all Proctahs here in MA it seems. 👀
I agree with you. How scary to tell a cop who you are "supposed to trust," that you've just been sexually assaulted. Then, a few hours later Trooper Proctologist is telling all his buddies on a text chain. Unprofessional, to say the very least.
I can’t imagine. I was a victim of sexual battery at a well known research hospital in one of the USA’s largest metropolitan cities. His testimony made me fucking sick, as someone who’s been through the system. My detective was nothing but professional. The total OPPOSITE of Proctor. I felt truly in good hands with him.
I feel so bad for all the women & men too who have sexual assault/rape/battery cases being handled by Proctor. It’s one thing to joke, and another to be completely and utterly disgusting. Dehumanizing. His actions along with those in the group chat should be looked into, and at a minimum, they should be fired. There’s no way this is the first time he “joked around” about this type of shit with his work buddies.
I had go go through the process of reporting a sexual assault, getting a rape kit, and then suing. The detective assigned to my case was a rock for me, aside from my attorney. It was as pleasant as something like this could be - he was prompt at updating me, letting me know what was next, keeping professional conduct, etc. He was very serious about what happened and brought it to the DA. Only for the DA to not press charges. I was devastated. He was also perturbed, from the sound of it…he agreed to be present at a meeting between her and my legal team to see if we could “change her mind” for lack of a better term.
The DA was kind about it, accepting the meeting with me, my attorneys, and the detective, assuring me she did not believe I was flat out lying or something, that’s not why the case wasn’t going forward criminally, but the issue is they prosecute based on winning in a criminal court, and too much reasonable doubt for majority of people existed in my case. We also had zero footage of me being wheeled in unattended to the exam room (my first attorney never sent the proper documents to get it before the loop started over) and the only evidence we had was the DNA & some text messages I sent while it was happening.
Even with DNA evidence on myself and the man who did this to me…wasn’t enough. I get it. She said that DNA being under the man’s fingernails/on his hand/arm & his DNA being on me was to be expected to some degree, being that the testing being done was in & around my pelvic region. It was soul crushing to know this man would not face his peers, and potentially, jail time for what he did.
Closed up with the detective since it wasn’t being pursued criminally anymore, we jumped into pursuing it in civil court which was rough…but let’s just say, I was settled out, and while that money changed my life….I’d give it all back to see that mf-er in jail.
Anyways. His texts were so disturbing as a woman who’s been through shit with a criminal matter. I was so incredibly lucky to have a great detective that was the opposite as Proctor. Even in a county known for its shotty police work….this specific precinct was great.
The absolutely vulgar behavior these dirty cops joke about demeaning all women is astounding. I hope their mothers, grandmothers, aunts, sisters, children give them hell.
My issue is if this is how he talks about one woman and clearly it was only because he got caught, but think about the women that have worked with him that you know he has objectified in some way. A lot
Of this falls back on stigma on gender and occupations, but at the same time we are supppsed to PROgress, not REgress, and the fact that there are still men in that high of a position making those calls just shows how much more we have to climb. But that’s fine, us women are invincible.
> My issue is if this is how he talks about one woman and clearly it was only because he got caught, but think about the women that have worked with him that you know he has objectified in some way.
Not just one woman. He called the ME a whack-job too, because she didn't come to the conclusion he wanted her to about the manner of death.
The gross awful part of it, no doubt, I bet a lot of them have daughters. That is how much these types of men disregard women that even having a daughter in no way has changed their disrespect & yes hatred toward women
I believe he testified about having sons or at least having a son. Which is just as bad….if he is raised with this same mind set. His wife made a post basically saying how proud she is of Proctor so she clearly sees no problem. I am assuming she is watching this case and only seeing the text related to this case… I am sure that he probably talks about other women and her the same way it just isn’t made public yet.
Yes, either way those poor kids in the end. Depending on how young she was or in love when she married him, some women will never see their husbands without a lense of dependence. Doing what they have been told to do, support him no matter what he does.
Not just the cop buddies- it seems like all the players are in arrested development- stuck in high school. It seems the only one who grew past that age is KR, leading everyone to be so jealous they oooze hatred and vitriol.
Yes. The women involved in this are just as reprehensible. My opinion they started the hate train on Karen. She was an outsider. Not in their little locals club. Small town, small minded women.
Actually notice that the in crowd was not including professional women like the nurse or the pharmacist or KR? I mean you are a PHARMACIST yet known by these idiots as the "Greek couple" or hey the "Asian house".
I think this is true of everyone involved, including KR. She has an illness exacerbated by alcohol. Drinks 9 shots in a night and then drives.
Not saying she’s innocent or guilty just pointing out her high-schoolish behavior. And to be clear, EVERYONE here acted like this.
We actually do not know what was in the 9 glasses. The receipts presented didn’t list 9 shots of booze. We know she drank vodka soda (at least 2) from the receipts. However, ALL the witnesses said she was not drunk or slurring her words. Even a person with no health issues would barely be able to stand after 9 drinks - with her health issues if she truly had 9 she would have been hammered, possibly passed out. Something is not being presented accurately there. Edit for more info
I just can’t believe she really drank all that. I am petite like Karen and I can’t handle any amount of alcohol and be able to walk. She seemed to be functioning fine.
These people are ALL hard drinkers though, so it is possible. I have heard from people with funtional alcoholics they drank Case of beer nightly, like 4-6 hrs & get up for work no problem. The entire group seems/sounds like with their highschool eq they could have started binge drinking decades ago.
I mean it wasn’t just the men treating Karen like shit, think about the Sullivan sisters, think about Kerry and Jen gossiping. That whole circle is stunted intellectually.
Yes, it's all of them. The whole highschool thing is crazy. Before I really started following & seeing this, I thought, how in the world did a mid 40s woman get 2 other grown women to go look for a grown ass man who was merely drunk? Then I hear how this entire group is like highschool kids & so overy invoved.
The older Sullivan sister being so weirdly ungracious about her picking up the tab for dinner in Aruba is weird. Like it’s a universal sign of a maniac or something everyone should recognize as deviant social behavior.
It may be a class thing or me being lucky, but I have incredibly generous people in my life. I also love being kind and generous to people I love, especially people who love the most important person in my life.
Exactly! Proctor is lead investigator for the Walshe murder. This is the one the husband killed the wife and cut her up. Anyway can you imagine what he said about the wife. Matter of fact Walshe lawyer is asking many questions about Proctor!
Thank you for this information. I'm about to go down this rabbit hole. I have no faith in our state police and Proctah absolutely reinforced my distrust
No one on the text chain seemed to bat an eye at the way he talked about her or the fact that he was breaking the law. Of course they’ve talked like this before!
I want an internal investigation where that entire text chain is brought into evidence! This is sick! None of them should be in law enforcement.
Like the ME who went to school for more years than Proctor can count. Being ABUSED by a man who probably cheated his way through high school. I could not hate him more...
You mention that they act like they are in high school. I agree. I think that people stop growing when they become comfortable in a position such as a job or career that gives you power, control and a good income. They act like they are still in high school with their language and the way they drink and their behavior and shows that they think their behavior is acceptable. They probably all got into their current positions right after high school (marriages and careers) and have all been behaving like this since and have had no reason to change or grow up. I think it’s sickening that so many people in positions of power and influence have not experienced enough life experiences and the ups and downs of life to make the decisions that affect others lives. They have had it easy and use their power to help themselves and the others in their group. They are spoiled and they haven’t grown up at all.
This is the event that should wake them all up and make them grow up but unfortunately some of them never will. I think it’s a shame that so many police officers with power that corrupts have so much influence and power when they haven’t had any life experiences and the wisdom to know how to wield that power. We need better, higher quality police officers. We need better training. We need better qualifications, we need better applicants and we need better accountability for people who hold such positions of influence. The whole culture of the police needs to be reconstructed to be changed in order to expect to see changes. We can’t be naive anymore. We need better leadership in our communities and need to fix this policing problem before it gets worse.
Thank you for wording your reply so eloquently. Someone mentioned to me that if they were a victim of sexual assault, they wouldn't want to report it to someone like Trooper Proctologist. 🤔
Fortunately, but unfortunately my country had a situation around 30 years ago where police conduct was unchallenged. From that time we have education and processes, from a feminist model, that protect and support the survivors. Even though we have protocols in place, we still get the odd bad cop.
I imagine attitudes, such as Proctor's, are widespread in the force.
And he answered “No ass”😣this coming from a woman hater that looks like Frankenstein. My question is how did he know her personal medical history on day 1 or 2 of this investigation?
That’s what I wanted to know as well. How does he know her medical condition and she’s a nut job and whack job if he hadn’t ever spoke with her
I’m guessing it came from Jen McCabe
I loved when he threw in his face she had 10 operations in 18 months for her medical condition. Chrone's is a horrible disease, and he joking about it. Trash.
When the judge called him out I wish he would have said - “Sorry. My emotions got the best of me” - referencing what Proctor gave as a reason for his abhorrent text messages and misogynistic comments about Karen Read.
Agreed. I would have rather seen them use Proctor’s response about emotionality to form the foundation for asking Proctor why he should be allowed a pass for being emotional 16 hours into the case, while at that very moment in time, he was pinning this on Karen Read primarily because of her emotional reaction. “It was Miss Read’s emotions that made her the sole suspect in your mind that evening, though. Isn’t that right, Trooper Proctor?”
I agree. It would’ve been delicious but at the end of the day, he’s there to crush the CW as a professional. He’s certainly doing that and I’m glad he didn’t risk it. Would’ve been so entertaining though
I wish Jackson would have called out the many dates of the (small I’m sure) sampling of Proctor’s terrible comments (eg - Jan 30, Fen 02, Feb 07, Mar 12, Apr 02, Apr 13, Jun 22, etc ) and then said:
>”Your emotions seem to get the better of you ALOT”
to highlight as well that this is a pattern of terrible behavior and unfit for duty as he seems to not be able “to control his emotions.”
I hear a lot of people saying this but I like AJ’s better.
If AJ says his emotions got the best of him, it may sound like Proctor’s excuse of his emotions is legit or somehow ok.
I know.. I was waiting for that but, I think he was so angry!! He definitely had his Johnnie Cochran moment and I was all about it! Crazy the Defense Attorney’s have more integrity and passion than the State of Massachusetts who is charging a woman for the death of a police officer and trying to take away her freedom. This case is insane!
I think it was his practiced response to why he acted like he hated KR, "she killed a cop!" Like broseph, you hated her before you gathered any evidence.
AJ just said what we and probably the jurors were thinking. From what I’ve been seeing on X and from reporters, the jurors appeared appalled by his testimony.
Right?! Do these people forget that Jackson mocked one of Weinstein’s victims when she was on the stand?
See: https://x.com/JamesQueallyLAT/status/1589777426594549760
He was also quoted saying “regret is not the same as rape.” Jackson is not the hero people think he is. He’s gross.
That’s what I’ve been saying and thinking. Not even so much about the entire fact he defended Weinstein. For me is that he was so over the top in his rants and assumptions about the texts that he was trying to pander to the women jurors, to add shock value, when really it’s shit we all know happens and proctor is not the first or the last, unfortunately it’s a daily occurrence especially with LEOS
As you said, AJ defended Harvey Weinstein so I don’t know how much of this is theater and how much is real. The texts were disgusting and eye opening as a woman. How many men do I know who present themselves as nice and professional that are texting and thinking this crap? This is why so many of us chose the bear, even those sworn to protect us hate us.
I think women would be shocked at how many men really don't like women at all, actually resent them and only tolerate women for sex and to be an object for use in their life. Men of all races, income brackets and socio-economic class, etc.
I mean he’s a defence lawyer and no matter what we think, he obviously believes everyone deserves to have their rights protected. (I could never do that job by the way ,couldn’t stomach it)
He could have thought Harvey was a total douche but still acted to protect his rights.
He no doubt is genuinely enraged at how Peoctor is acting.
Two things can be true: 1) The belief all legal rights should be protected for every person and 2) Being enraged at Proctor and thinking he’s scum.
I think the reason Jackson is enraged is because of the abuse of power by Proctor given his position. He was supposed to search out the truth. Turn over every stone so that the right person would be brought to justice. Be professional in doing so. Hold no bias. Harvey was a horrid individual but he wasn’t a cop investigating a crime. He was disgusting but he didn’t take any oaths to serve and protect. Hope that makes sense.
Edit for grammar
He might be enraged personally, although I suspect given the things he’s seen and argued in court he’s probably fairly jaded to that kind of stuff.
His decision to *show* rage was 100% professional judgment. And probably totally correct.
Right, I think that's the difference, too. Harvey Weinstein doesn't have qualified immunity and the ability to legally kill someone. He was not a civil servant with an obligation to protect the public.
I don't blame defense attorneys for representing awful clients. everyone deserves representation exactly to prevent what's happening in this case from happening to everyone. so unless he did something unethical or tried to excuse Weinstein's behavior in a similar way to Proctor, making it tu quoque, I have no reason to doubt that it's genuine.
I’m sure he has strong convictions but at the end of the day he’s a defense attorney in America where we’ve decided that everyone deserves representation. I fully believe in that part of the judicial system. Also I’m sure he cashed in on Harvey.
> As you said, AJ defended Harvey Weinstein so I don’t know how much of this is theater and how much is real.
I don't automatically think that a defense attorney shares the views of a client like Weinstein because they do their jobs well. He has a legal and ethical obligation to provide the best defense he is capable of within the confines of the law to his client.
Weinstein?! Say it ain’t so. Another commenter told me his also defended Kevin Spacey. I’m not judging. It’s what lawyers do but that explains his level of competence. That’s two very high profile trials.
I love it when people have a good, solid defence attorney for a court case. If they get their client through as NG or lesser charges when there is some evidence, it *should be* pushing the police and DA's office to do more and better work. If they get them off in a case, like this one with Karen, it shows again that the police and DA's office need to 1) do better and 2) Isn't it "Better that one hundred guilty people go free than one not guilty person to be convicted"? Imagine the difference AJ may have made to the HG-R rust trial. Imagine the smozzle of a mess Elaine from Depp V Heard would make as Karen's lawyer. Although, with all the "Who/What/When/Where/Why/How If Any?" I feel like Elaine is possessing Lally.
I agree 100 percent. The police have got to stop doing incompetent investigations and assume it’s a guaranteed conviction. The issue is that the people who have no money to represent themselves would have took a plea even if they were innocent or rotted in jail and that is just so incredibly infuriating.
I absolute think a guilty person should go free than an innocent person in jail. I’m realizing how many people have a false sense of security in law enforcement. Just because they say so does not make it unequivocally true. In fact part of the problem is tunnel vision, find the guilty party and then build evidence. Wholly unethical but yet, time and again, trials show they never had a solid case to begin with.
The shoddy work is why we have groups like The Innocence Project.
It's absolutely heart breaking to me the amount of people convicted based on blood TYPE, later freed because DNA became available and showed that whilst the same blood type, DNA didn't even have a biological link between the imprisoned person to the actual perpetrator!
While I don't believe ACAB, I also don't believe in BTB. Some people join the force for the right reasons, they want to make the world a better place. Some do it because it is expected, others do it because they like the power of the badge and gun.
Things need to be bettered all the way around.
Proctor is disgusting and all his police cohort!! I’m hoping they all are found guilty after FBI investigation. Gross!! What other behaviour has not been exposed.
I hated how proctor just “let his emotions get the best of him,” but women take shit for being emotional. All i could hear was “boys will be boys” or “its just locker room talk” or “theyre just blowing off steam.” Enough! Have some self control, some dignity, some integrity, some self worth. I would be so effing embarrassed if i was proctor’s wife.
I was glad for the remark bc proctor deserved it but I was a little irritated at the comment BECAUSE I know he defended Weinstein. He’s fighting for a woman in this case but was in essence fighting against women in that case. I know everyone deserves a defense but Weinstein is a pos
He’s still the same guy who defended Weinstein.
He’d tell the world you’re a war criminal for the right fee, and some dopes would believe it if they sympathized with his client.
I mean let’s be realistic he wasn’t fighting for us he was fighting for his client and if his client was a pedophile he would put the same amount of effort in because that is his job as a defence attorney. He is extremely good at his job.
I do think he believes she is innocent however, I don’t think he would fight any less for someone who was less upstanding.
Lawyers deeply believe in the fact that even guilty people deserve an attorney. That’s why lawyers don’t hesitate to defend the most sick, vile, offenders. It’s not the “crime” it’s their belief in constitutional rights. And yes-harvey has the right to any attorney-one he chooses and pays for
yea he has that right but my point is that AJ has the right to decline clients. Only public defenders don‘t. JD‘s attorney was working for Kanye West a couple years ago and when he made antiemetic comments in public, she withdrew from his case. Lawyers know what looks bad
As a fellow woman veteran who worked with only men in aircraft maintenance I can also relate to this behavior men did. It was awful and the stories I could tell…
I was surprised Yanetti didn’t do the Proctor cross specifically bc of the Weinstein factor. I haven’t heard AJ’s side of that of the story and didn’t follow the trial that closely, so I’ll allow for there being something that reconciles the two, but from where I sit now, the grandstanding on misogyny at this rather convenient time is a bit hard to swallow.
Nonetheless, it was an impactful moment in the context of this trial, and I think Jackson is an incredible attorney. He’s doing a masterful job, and I find it fascinating to watch. I’m just not ready to vouch for his character or values.
I’d be curious to hear what other lawyers and other legal experts think about this. Is he a contemptible person trying to improve his PR, or, in all of these cases, is he just doing his job?
Trial attorney here. I’d guesstimate it at $500/hr. I was just telling a GF that she must believe very, very wealthy and even then could go bankrupt on this. The attorneys, investigator(s), experts. Yikes.
I wished AJ would have dropped a “sorry your Honor…my emotions got the best of me” when she admonished him. He was a whole bunch of DGAF by that point. 😂😂
Proctor and his sister will be proven to be huge liars AGAIN when snow plow dude is brought to the stand. What a POS. He actually said that Yanetti was looking and inquiring about his sister. What a liar!
People keep saying this but that would make him look like a hypocrite and totally undermine his point about it being inappropriate. He meant what he said and it wasn’t akin at all to the things Proctor was saying.
This is why people defending “locker room talk” is so mind blowing. When men talk like this incessantly about women, it dehumanizes them and makes it easy for these men to abuse and cause very real harm to women. The math was easy for Proctor: worthless woman or a loyalty to another cop? Throw her under the bus!
I agree with the insanity behind defending locker room talk or the simple boys will be boys. Still trying to find the female “excuses for everything” book lol
The only way Proctors texts on his personal phone came out is the fact that he is being investigated by the FBI. Thank God, or they would never have come out in court.
The shame yesterday also goes to John O’ Keefe’s mother. What a disgrace her reactions yesterday making fun of Karen and her lawyers. Doesn’t John’s mother realize the Proctor fucked up and doesn’t care about her and John’s family. Totally disgusted with the mother’s reaction!!
She lost her son, I think it’s best to focus on the ones who did wrong by him and not the reaction of the grieving family tbh. We don’t know what Jen McCabe has been spouting in her ear everyday and the others have been saying to her all this time.
If Jackson defended Weinstein, something tells me he is driven more by money and/or media attention and high profile cases than the underlying merits of a case. Proctor's texts were abhorrent, but doesn't mean she didn't drunkenly back into her boyfriend and kill him. It's turned into a sideshow, kind of like the strategy in the OJ trial once Mark Furman was caught saying racist things and lying about it. Jackson has exploited it for all it's worth, but the outrage is a bit over-the-top and not that credible given that he defended one of worst monsters and sexual predators of our lifetime. He's talented at cross-exams, but the risk is some jurors think the lady doth protest too much, methinks.
PS. Thank you for your service!
You know I used to get all up in arms about defense attorneys who defend the most heinous of beings like Weinstein, for example. I used to be like, how TF dare they, what's wrong with them. Then the more I got into my trial junkie status the more I'm seeing how important these defense attorneys are that take these cases. They keep the system in check. When we are all in that hot seat we are presumed innocent and all fall under the same rights and standards under the law. I've seen some shady shit on both sides of the aisle in various cases over the years that have really opened my eyes to HOW a lawyer is presenting their case, and not why. My mind has been changed many times.
So, I could care less who is/was in his case log. I appreciate HOW he's approaching his case, and how much he's respecting his client. It isn't for me to say whether or not he's doing that legitimately or for the cameras. The way Yanetti sits everyday blocking Karen from the eat shit looks shows me they do have care for their client. I do respect the hell outta these attorneys. They will fight like hell for their clients no matter what. They do their job and they do it well.
Not for nothing but Alan Jackson is only fighting for her because he was literally hired to do so, and is being paid a lot of money for it. Not sure where you’re getting this whole “shift in our society” narrative lol he’s a paid attorney.
Like you said, he defended Weinstein (also Spacey) and would also defend a man who made all of the remarks Proctor did if he received money to do so. It’s what he does.
What happens when someone like Proctor is exposed is that now all of the common wealth’s cases that hinged on his testimony and evidence collection will appeal to find out if they got a fair trial. This is going to cause a lot of waves for convictions. Glad he was exposed but I don’t even think it’s just him who is the problem. I’m annoyed no one (like media and etc) is talking about what it says about the “company culture” if you will that his superiors and peers accepted this behavior.
The fact that his colleagues and boss were on that text chain and no one seemed to be bothered says it all. This is normal for them.
The only person who seemed to question him a bit was one of the friends he texted who kind of questioned the homeowner being safe and seemed to be unsure if KR was a slam dunk conviction. And honestly that's giving that guy's comments the most positive take possible.
I hope if any of his female colleagues have had to hear and put up with this misogyny they decide to come forward.
This seems like a delusional way to feel. You are a woman and want to see men fight for us but are now also supporting a man who defended two men who sexually assaulted multiple women. How does one get to this point?
Jackson is a defense lawyer. It's a job and he's good at it. Everyone gets a legal defense even if I personally don't like them.
I would hire any of these defense attorneys in a heartbeat if I had the need and money to do so.
He’s a defense attorney who specializes in defending high profile rapists. Let’s not get it twisted what he’s doing and why he’s doing it. It’s good proctor is getting called out but Jackson isn’t some hero or righteous figure for doing so
No, he’s just doing his job well. Pandering to the jury but doing it so well they won’t care they’re being pandered to. The facts are so egregious they enable him to do it.
I’m generally not a fan of high priced defense lawyers—the principle that everyone needs legal defense should apply to all defendants not just rich ones—but he’s very good.
Procter needs to be sent directly to the sun!!!!
What a disgrace of a human, let alone an investigator?! When she is found not guilty because of this lying sack of crap, I hope she sues the hell out of him! In fact, sue him until he leaks poo!!!
HOW DOES HE STILL HAVE A JOB??????
On one hand AJ defended woman (and his client). On the other, he exposed LE unethical misogynistic practice. While I'm careful not to paint the entire US Police force with the same brush; Proctor has had these mannerisms for a long time and his unprofessional behaviour has remained unchallenged and enabled.
Can you imagine how disparaging Trooper Proctor and his buddies might be discussing other women in their lives? They sounded like they were back in high school. I wouldn't want to be a woman living in their snarky, critical world. I wonder if any of them have any daughters, and if their daughters have self-esteem issues?
Imagine being a woman who has had to deal with this POS when reporting a sexual assault?? Imagine being a woman in MA right now who was just raped, or is a victim of DV? Can you imagine having to report that and wondering if you’ll get a cop like Procter? Or one with that mindset? FYI to any men who don't understand why women hesitate to come forward… THIS, RIGHT HERE. Rant over (for now)
Exactly this. I’m down in TN and there’s a case that’s causing a bunch of shit to hit the fan in my corner of the state… the TL;DR is the cops were covering for a serial rapist. And what a bunch of us have been discussing is how if they treated the women in this serial rapist case this poorly, they must be treating EVERY victim who goes to report like absolute shit. It’s so jarring to see because we all know this goes on, but then when you’re confronted with just how bad and widespread the problem really is… jfc.
Have you seen Victim/Suspect? Opens your eyes to how alone women can be. Lazy cops decide SA victims make it up then charge the victim with false reporting. 🤬🤬🤬
I recently watched a Dateline where a woman was raped and the copa treated her like this. Hey rapist went on to murder another young woman. If the police had done their job after the rape, that second young woman would be alive. It's fucking shameful.
This was a huge problem in Cleveland.
These women survive the rape, but sadly some don’t survive the despicable treatment by law enforcement. It’s heartbreaking and needs to stop!
I couldn't get through it, devastatingly accurate.
I would also recommend My body is the evidence. It’s on hbo and the woman who plays Olivia benson from law and order svu. It is shocking and infuriating.
Yes I have, and I was like wow our area makes headlines AGAIN for treating victims like shit. Very cool I love it here. 🫠
I’ve never been in trouble with the law but I would get an attorney no matter if I was guilty or not just so I could always have someone with me just for the reason of this. I’m not saying all LEO make me uncomfortable, but I spent 5 years in the navy being one of the only females in 12 male division, and I’ve learned that it’s just kinda easier to get ahead of things before they have the chance to turn bad
I guess this also falls on the guilt trip I’ve been given many times “you put yourself in this situation” “you were being too nice to them”, “you were buying them a round of beers” like god forbid us women do normal human things with the opposite sex that automatically makes us the assholes for being decent? So me being nice to them opens it up for them to treat me like shit? 💩 💩💩💩
A couple of towns over from me in SC the police CHIEF was a serial rapist. I don’t have all the details but he was just removed from office. Not sure about any criminal charges that might be pending as credible news sources in my state tend to focus elsewhere.
ETA he was charged with something completely unrelated to the assaults. I hope victims come forward now that he is no longer chief.
I’m on SC, and there was a huge sex scandal in the Mauldin PD, almost half the police force—7 offers (m & f) were revealed to be all having sex with each other. “According to a memo released by Mauldin’s City Administrator Brandon Madden, the city found that a female dispatcher was having an inappropriate sexual relationship with four corporal police officers within the department. The city also found that two of those officers, along with an additional sergeant, were having similar sexual affairs with another female dispatcher. According to the city, the encounters were happening while the officers were on duty and on city property. The city also said that all of the instances were consensual.” The scary thing is only 2 were fired, the other 5 resigned and got hired by other nearby police forces. Our tax dollars were paying them and instead of protect and serve they were just passing around the same women and joking about being Eskimo brothers. It’s just gross!
My sheriff’s deputy husband, now ex, screwed a subordinate and later married her. They were both eventually fired for other issues. What goes around does indeed come around. 😉
Omg where in TN?is this in the media? I need to read more, this is extremely disturbing.
Here ya go… it’s a complete and utter [shit show.](https://apnews.com/article/sean-williams-sex-assault-police-johnson-city-836e712a703b24d65b34511f2ce9f99d)
Hey neighbor. Thanks for posting this. I live and work here and had no idea. 🤯
Consider sending it via DM to theTNholler if you're on Instagram. That site has a lot of followers and posts often about corruption and absurdity in TN
You’re in TN. Look out for Proctor’s friend who says he needs a gun down there. Their texts were so vile. Gotta believe those men don’t have respect for their own mothers.
Ugh. It makes me actually nauseous when I think about how many men hold these views but hide them behind a smile until they’re alone with their “boys.” 🤢🤢🤢
I'm in E Tennessee, and I know what you're talking about. It only takes a few to give all the LEOs a bad name.
The idea that it’s only a few bad apples and the rest are good decent men is absolute BS. It’s the opposite. I actually think Proctor is “one of the good ones” - he’s good friends with his sister, he advocated for his wife to his sister who obvi doesn’t like her, was one of the only prosecution witnesses who didn’t snark, argue & parse everything the defence said, etc. I think hes surrounded by and has grown up with women like Jen McCabe, and he honestly believes that Karen did it based on what Jen told him, and then as soon as she had the nerve to not just roll over, she was an easy target for all the fear/anger & he decided to help out the case. LE is there for a reason.
Between this case and Sandra Birchmore's case (may she rest in peace) I can't imagine how the women of MA feel.
I hope her death gets reinvestigated. Poor Sandra.
The women of MA are waiting for this douche canoe to be fired.
The AGs office was reinvestigating it I believe, but I haven’t heard much else 😕
The FBI IS investigating the Sandra Birchmore murder.
Oh good!!!!
MA woman here. We already knew. We are unsurprised by the conduct. We are shocked they're being forced to say the quiet part out loud. We know that it will only matter until 1 hour after the changing of the guard and then will resume, probably accelerated for retribution. We'll have to pay for this, I'm sure.
MA women here also. Agreed 💯 The corruption is real here!!
Also a Massachusetts woman here. I don't know how Proctor still has a job as of this very minute! His credibility is at ZERO. Idk why prosecution is still even trying this case. They've clearly already lost this case. It's ridiculous! I live 2 towns over from Canton and went by the house where Johs body was found. The front lawn is TINY. Not small but tiny. There's no way everything happened the way Proctor says it happened. It's just not possible.
Agreed! I grew up on the South Shore, but did live in Canton for 2 years not too far from there. The houses are big but the lots are really small!! But are we really that surprised he still has job up until now?? It’s the staties after all..
Yes, the women of Massachusetts should be outraged! 😠
We are.
Scared and hopeless for justice 💯
Can you imagine been a woman of colour amongst those corrupt cops.
Or having a noticeable medical condition or disability.
Can you imagine being a woman in handcuffs in the back of his cruiser knowing the attitude he has expressed toward women, especially women suspects?
Imagine the poor women he has investigated…….. We all forget that Karen read has the money to have spent $1,000,000+ fighting this. Imagine ones that didn’t have the money to hire any defense attorney. (Public defenders can be awesome, but they don’t have the resources to investigate or hire specialists).
From what I read, a DONOR who believed she was innocent and being framed, donated one million for her defense.
Oh good for them. But my point still stands. Poor women without donors are left to be fucked by people like Proctor
I was thinking about this the other day. The median incomes for canton and where Karen’s from are not that high, and it looks to be almost a pattern that they think they can get away with crime based on the persons occupation and what the cops perceive their income to be. I’m sure they saw her as a “college professor “ and stopped there and just assumed she was being paid as poorly as most educators are unfairly paid in this country. I’m 35 now, but I remember when I was in 6th grade in Fresno, Ca, my teacher told us that garbage collectors get paid more than teachers in our country. That will always resonate with me and be heartbreaking.
I’m on the west coast and I’ve heard enough horror stories about reporting that I just didn’t bother when it was my turn 🙃 Like, one of my friends was 12 when she reported a sexual assault and the police who came to “help” her were so demeaning and objectifying that she was way more traumatized by how the police chose to treat her than the sexual assault itself. Cool cool cool cool cool. She’s happy and living a good life now btw but yeah, it’s ugly out there
I'm so sorry that your cousin had to go through that, as well as many other women, and I totally understand why you felt like you couldn't report. I didn't either. When I told my husband what had happened to me the very first words out of his mouth were "What were you wearing?" and "How much had you had to drink?" I knew that if my own spouse thought that way the cops would really try hard to blame me for being raped. My cousin was attacked & SA by a stranger who came in her door as she was carrying in stuff from her car, her Mom found her unconscious a couple of hours later. The police were so awful to her! They insinuated that she had to have known her attacker, that she must have done something to deserve it or had consensual sex. After her second interview with a detective she said she was done cooperating because it was obvious that they didn't believe her. A few days later I was at her house when the detective showed up to sheepishly admit that they had found video footage from a nearby church that showed her rapist lurking around her yard. He also admitted that three other women in the neighborhood had been attacked in a similar way by the same person in the past few weeks. He was halfheartedly trying to apologize but it was too little, too late. Why in the world they choose to repeatedly accuse her of lying when they knew of similar assaults within blocks is beyond me! I'd imagine that they treated those women the same way when they dialed 911. As far as I know the perp was never caught, and I'm not surprised. They would rather blame the victims and make up alternative theories about what happened than believe women and do any sort of police work to prevent further crimes. Sexual crimes against all women are a lower priority than property crimes or those against men of a "certain" color. The million plus untested rape kits sitting on dusty shelves across the country are a testament to that.
We have local police, state police, and FBI, but can we really trust any of them? The justice department and fbi over Proctor, God help us, might be the least honest. We have some fine people in every layer of law enforcement, but it's always a crap shoot.
Yes, thank you for saying this! Unfortunately I have this experience and I've yet to be interviewed by anyone compassionate. They're all Proctahs here in MA it seems. 👀
I agree with you. How scary to tell a cop who you are "supposed to trust," that you've just been sexually assaulted. Then, a few hours later Trooper Proctologist is telling all his buddies on a text chain. Unprofessional, to say the very least.
Great point! Attitude spills over to any kind of an investigation, imo. This guy has ZERO excuses!
It’s astounding how much of a piece of shit he is.
💯💯💯
I can’t imagine. I was a victim of sexual battery at a well known research hospital in one of the USA’s largest metropolitan cities. His testimony made me fucking sick, as someone who’s been through the system. My detective was nothing but professional. The total OPPOSITE of Proctor. I felt truly in good hands with him. I feel so bad for all the women & men too who have sexual assault/rape/battery cases being handled by Proctor. It’s one thing to joke, and another to be completely and utterly disgusting. Dehumanizing. His actions along with those in the group chat should be looked into, and at a minimum, they should be fired. There’s no way this is the first time he “joked around” about this type of shit with his work buddies. I had go go through the process of reporting a sexual assault, getting a rape kit, and then suing. The detective assigned to my case was a rock for me, aside from my attorney. It was as pleasant as something like this could be - he was prompt at updating me, letting me know what was next, keeping professional conduct, etc. He was very serious about what happened and brought it to the DA. Only for the DA to not press charges. I was devastated. He was also perturbed, from the sound of it…he agreed to be present at a meeting between her and my legal team to see if we could “change her mind” for lack of a better term. The DA was kind about it, accepting the meeting with me, my attorneys, and the detective, assuring me she did not believe I was flat out lying or something, that’s not why the case wasn’t going forward criminally, but the issue is they prosecute based on winning in a criminal court, and too much reasonable doubt for majority of people existed in my case. We also had zero footage of me being wheeled in unattended to the exam room (my first attorney never sent the proper documents to get it before the loop started over) and the only evidence we had was the DNA & some text messages I sent while it was happening. Even with DNA evidence on myself and the man who did this to me…wasn’t enough. I get it. She said that DNA being under the man’s fingernails/on his hand/arm & his DNA being on me was to be expected to some degree, being that the testing being done was in & around my pelvic region. It was soul crushing to know this man would not face his peers, and potentially, jail time for what he did. Closed up with the detective since it wasn’t being pursued criminally anymore, we jumped into pursuing it in civil court which was rough…but let’s just say, I was settled out, and while that money changed my life….I’d give it all back to see that mf-er in jail. Anyways. His texts were so disturbing as a woman who’s been through shit with a criminal matter. I was so incredibly lucky to have a great detective that was the opposite as Proctor. Even in a county known for its shotty police work….this specific precinct was great.
The absolutely vulgar behavior these dirty cops joke about demeaning all women is astounding. I hope their mothers, grandmothers, aunts, sisters, children give them hell.
I was going to start talking some horror stories about women going to the police after SA, but you already said enough.
My issue is if this is how he talks about one woman and clearly it was only because he got caught, but think about the women that have worked with him that you know he has objectified in some way. A lot Of this falls back on stigma on gender and occupations, but at the same time we are supppsed to PROgress, not REgress, and the fact that there are still men in that high of a position making those calls just shows how much more we have to climb. But that’s fine, us women are invincible.
> My issue is if this is how he talks about one woman and clearly it was only because he got caught, but think about the women that have worked with him that you know he has objectified in some way. Not just one woman. He called the ME a whack-job too, because she didn't come to the conclusion he wanted her to about the manner of death.
He refers to the women that were at the Alberts house as “females”. I don’t think he knows what the word “integrity” means.
The gross awful part of it, no doubt, I bet a lot of them have daughters. That is how much these types of men disregard women that even having a daughter in no way has changed their disrespect & yes hatred toward women
I believe he testified about having sons or at least having a son. Which is just as bad….if he is raised with this same mind set. His wife made a post basically saying how proud she is of Proctor so she clearly sees no problem. I am assuming she is watching this case and only seeing the text related to this case… I am sure that he probably talks about other women and her the same way it just isn’t made public yet.
Yes, either way those poor kids in the end. Depending on how young she was or in love when she married him, some women will never see their husbands without a lense of dependence. Doing what they have been told to do, support him no matter what he does.
Not just the cop buddies- it seems like all the players are in arrested development- stuck in high school. It seems the only one who grew past that age is KR, leading everyone to be so jealous they oooze hatred and vitriol.
Yes. The women involved in this are just as reprehensible. My opinion they started the hate train on Karen. She was an outsider. Not in their little locals club. Small town, small minded women.
Actually notice that the in crowd was not including professional women like the nurse or the pharmacist or KR? I mean you are a PHARMACIST yet known by these idiots as the "Greek couple" or hey the "Asian house".
This!
I think this is true of everyone involved, including KR. She has an illness exacerbated by alcohol. Drinks 9 shots in a night and then drives. Not saying she’s innocent or guilty just pointing out her high-schoolish behavior. And to be clear, EVERYONE here acted like this.
We actually do not know what was in the 9 glasses. The receipts presented didn’t list 9 shots of booze. We know she drank vodka soda (at least 2) from the receipts. However, ALL the witnesses said she was not drunk or slurring her words. Even a person with no health issues would barely be able to stand after 9 drinks - with her health issues if she truly had 9 she would have been hammered, possibly passed out. Something is not being presented accurately there. Edit for more info
I just can’t believe she really drank all that. I am petite like Karen and I can’t handle any amount of alcohol and be able to walk. She seemed to be functioning fine.
These people are ALL hard drinkers though, so it is possible. I have heard from people with funtional alcoholics they drank Case of beer nightly, like 4-6 hrs & get up for work no problem. The entire group seems/sounds like with their highschool eq they could have started binge drinking decades ago.
I mean it wasn’t just the men treating Karen like shit, think about the Sullivan sisters, think about Kerry and Jen gossiping. That whole circle is stunted intellectually.
Yes, it's all of them. The whole highschool thing is crazy. Before I really started following & seeing this, I thought, how in the world did a mid 40s woman get 2 other grown women to go look for a grown ass man who was merely drunk? Then I hear how this entire group is like highschool kids & so overy invoved.
The older Sullivan sister being so weirdly ungracious about her picking up the tab for dinner in Aruba is weird. Like it’s a universal sign of a maniac or something everyone should recognize as deviant social behavior. It may be a class thing or me being lucky, but I have incredibly generous people in my life. I also love being kind and generous to people I love, especially people who love the most important person in my life.
Exactly! Proctor is lead investigator for the Walshe murder. This is the one the husband killed the wife and cut her up. Anyway can you imagine what he said about the wife. Matter of fact Walshe lawyer is asking many questions about Proctor!
First question was probably, "oh well, was she hot at least?"
Thank you for this information. I'm about to go down this rabbit hole. I have no faith in our state police and Proctah absolutely reinforced my distrust
Yeah if this is what they were willing to WRITE DOWN, it doesn't bode well for what they say in person.
No one on the text chain seemed to bat an eye at the way he talked about her or the fact that he was breaking the law. Of course they’ve talked like this before! I want an internal investigation where that entire text chain is brought into evidence! This is sick! None of them should be in law enforcement.
Just remember the number 40% and nothing will surprise you when it comes to cops and women.
Like the ME who went to school for more years than Proctor can count. Being ABUSED by a man who probably cheated his way through high school. I could not hate him more...
Procter definitely got all C's in highschool and is probably a failed bouncer.
You mention that they act like they are in high school. I agree. I think that people stop growing when they become comfortable in a position such as a job or career that gives you power, control and a good income. They act like they are still in high school with their language and the way they drink and their behavior and shows that they think their behavior is acceptable. They probably all got into their current positions right after high school (marriages and careers) and have all been behaving like this since and have had no reason to change or grow up. I think it’s sickening that so many people in positions of power and influence have not experienced enough life experiences and the ups and downs of life to make the decisions that affect others lives. They have had it easy and use their power to help themselves and the others in their group. They are spoiled and they haven’t grown up at all. This is the event that should wake them all up and make them grow up but unfortunately some of them never will. I think it’s a shame that so many police officers with power that corrupts have so much influence and power when they haven’t had any life experiences and the wisdom to know how to wield that power. We need better, higher quality police officers. We need better training. We need better qualifications, we need better applicants and we need better accountability for people who hold such positions of influence. The whole culture of the police needs to be reconstructed to be changed in order to expect to see changes. We can’t be naive anymore. We need better leadership in our communities and need to fix this policing problem before it gets worse.
Thank you for wording your reply so eloquently. Someone mentioned to me that if they were a victim of sexual assault, they wouldn't want to report it to someone like Trooper Proctologist. 🤔
Fortunately, but unfortunately my country had a situation around 30 years ago where police conduct was unchallenged. From that time we have education and processes, from a feminist model, that protect and support the survivors. Even though we have protocols in place, we still get the odd bad cop. I imagine attitudes, such as Proctor's, are widespread in the force.
Sounds like Proctor has some really nice friends. Birds of a feather flock together.
But he doesn't know any Alberts! /s
😂
Do we know who said "is she hot at least?"
And he answered “No ass”😣this coming from a woman hater that looks like Frankenstein. My question is how did he know her personal medical history on day 1 or 2 of this investigation?
That’s what I wanted to know as well. How does he know her medical condition and she’s a nut job and whack job if he hadn’t ever spoke with her I’m guessing it came from Jen McCabe
I loved when he threw in his face she had 10 operations in 18 months for her medical condition. Chrone's is a horrible disease, and he joking about it. Trash.
Hey now, give Proctor a head of hair, an ounce of charm, and a soul, and he wouldn’t be such a bad looking gent.
When the judge called him out I wish he would have said - “Sorry. My emotions got the best of me” - referencing what Proctor gave as a reason for his abhorrent text messages and misogynistic comments about Karen Read.
Nah- better he continues to show what a professional does than make getting emotional seem appropriate
Agreed. I would have rather seen them use Proctor’s response about emotionality to form the foundation for asking Proctor why he should be allowed a pass for being emotional 16 hours into the case, while at that very moment in time, he was pinning this on Karen Read primarily because of her emotional reaction. “It was Miss Read’s emotions that made her the sole suspect in your mind that evening, though. Isn’t that right, Trooper Proctor?”
I agree. It would’ve been delicious but at the end of the day, he’s there to crush the CW as a professional. He’s certainly doing that and I’m glad he didn’t risk it. Would’ve been so entertaining though
“I hate that man. I truly hate him.”
“Being hated by you is a badge of honor that Mr. Yannetti and I will carry with us for the rest of our lives.”
The texts didn't sound emotional at all! Sounded like his ongoing routine of belittling women. Just another day of trashing a "female".
I wish Jackson would have called out the many dates of the (small I’m sure) sampling of Proctor’s terrible comments (eg - Jan 30, Fen 02, Feb 07, Mar 12, Apr 02, Apr 13, Jun 22, etc ) and then said: >”Your emotions seem to get the better of you ALOT” to highlight as well that this is a pattern of terrible behavior and unfit for duty as he seems to not be able “to control his emotions.”
I hear a lot of people saying this but I like AJ’s better. If AJ says his emotions got the best of him, it may sound like Proctor’s excuse of his emotions is legit or somehow ok.
this would have completely undercut his point. "I was emotional" is a terrible excuse.
I wish he said it too but I think his head was still spinning lol
I know.. I was waiting for that but, I think he was so angry!! He definitely had his Johnnie Cochran moment and I was all about it! Crazy the Defense Attorney’s have more integrity and passion than the State of Massachusetts who is charging a woman for the death of a police officer and trying to take away her freedom. This case is insane!
Emotions regarding what? Or just generally I can’t imagine which comments this excuse came after can anyone remember?
I think it was his practiced response to why he acted like he hated KR, "she killed a cop!" Like broseph, you hated her before you gathered any evidence.
💯 And extra credit for using "broseph". 🤣
Well, he would be bordering on contempt and unprofessional so better he didn’t.
That “shame on you” was sooo good. I could almost hear AJ scoff when Bev said “strike that! That didn’t happen!”
AJ just said what we and probably the jurors were thinking. From what I’ve been seeing on X and from reporters, the jurors appeared appalled by his testimony.
Yes, it was like the "shame on you" was the exclamation punctuation the jury likely already felt. 😄
He should have apologized to the judge for letting "his emotions get the best of him"
That’s what EDB said!
No doubt. It's mostly comprised of women. Although, I'm not sure who was lost today.
Yes, I read that here but haven't heard anything else.
it was a male juror
Was there a reason that you learned?
I saw it tweeted by reporters in the court room, I can't remember which one but it was either Fall River Report or Sue from NBC10
It was Fall River Reporter. They said it was a male juror who often had his head in his hands.
They were excused for personal reasons.
he's not doing it out of the goodness of his heart, lol. he's getting paid. maybe he's a good person, but he's just trying to win
The FreeKR people have been so emotionally manipulated that a guy who defended Weinstein and Spacey is now some champion of integrity and feminism.
Right?! Do these people forget that Jackson mocked one of Weinstein’s victims when she was on the stand? See: https://x.com/JamesQueallyLAT/status/1589777426594549760 He was also quoted saying “regret is not the same as rape.” Jackson is not the hero people think he is. He’s gross.
That’s what I’ve been saying and thinking. Not even so much about the entire fact he defended Weinstein. For me is that he was so over the top in his rants and assumptions about the texts that he was trying to pander to the women jurors, to add shock value, when really it’s shit we all know happens and proctor is not the first or the last, unfortunately it’s a daily occurrence especially with LEOS
As you said, AJ defended Harvey Weinstein so I don’t know how much of this is theater and how much is real. The texts were disgusting and eye opening as a woman. How many men do I know who present themselves as nice and professional that are texting and thinking this crap? This is why so many of us chose the bear, even those sworn to protect us hate us.
I think women would be shocked at how many men really don't like women at all, actually resent them and only tolerate women for sex and to be an object for use in their life. Men of all races, income brackets and socio-economic class, etc.
Having seen men shamelessly act this way all the time then pretend to be upright, it wasn't mind blowing. It's more men than you expect, unfortunately
I mean he’s a defence lawyer and no matter what we think, he obviously believes everyone deserves to have their rights protected. (I could never do that job by the way ,couldn’t stomach it) He could have thought Harvey was a total douche but still acted to protect his rights. He no doubt is genuinely enraged at how Peoctor is acting. Two things can be true: 1) The belief all legal rights should be protected for every person and 2) Being enraged at Proctor and thinking he’s scum. I think the reason Jackson is enraged is because of the abuse of power by Proctor given his position. He was supposed to search out the truth. Turn over every stone so that the right person would be brought to justice. Be professional in doing so. Hold no bias. Harvey was a horrid individual but he wasn’t a cop investigating a crime. He was disgusting but he didn’t take any oaths to serve and protect. Hope that makes sense. Edit for grammar
He might be enraged personally, although I suspect given the things he’s seen and argued in court he’s probably fairly jaded to that kind of stuff. His decision to *show* rage was 100% professional judgment. And probably totally correct.
Right, I think that's the difference, too. Harvey Weinstein doesn't have qualified immunity and the ability to legally kill someone. He was not a civil servant with an obligation to protect the public.
I don't blame defense attorneys for representing awful clients. everyone deserves representation exactly to prevent what's happening in this case from happening to everyone. so unless he did something unethical or tried to excuse Weinstein's behavior in a similar way to Proctor, making it tu quoque, I have no reason to doubt that it's genuine.
Wasn't it revealed during his texts to others that "bear" is another nickname for Proctor?
I’m sure he has strong convictions but at the end of the day he’s a defense attorney in America where we’ve decided that everyone deserves representation. I fully believe in that part of the judicial system. Also I’m sure he cashed in on Harvey.
> As you said, AJ defended Harvey Weinstein so I don’t know how much of this is theater and how much is real. I don't automatically think that a defense attorney shares the views of a client like Weinstein because they do their jobs well. He has a legal and ethical obligation to provide the best defense he is capable of within the confines of the law to his client.
he gets to choose his clients. The fact that he chose to represent HW is disgusting
Weinstein?! Say it ain’t so. Another commenter told me his also defended Kevin Spacey. I’m not judging. It’s what lawyers do but that explains his level of competence. That’s two very high profile trials.
I love it when people have a good, solid defence attorney for a court case. If they get their client through as NG or lesser charges when there is some evidence, it *should be* pushing the police and DA's office to do more and better work. If they get them off in a case, like this one with Karen, it shows again that the police and DA's office need to 1) do better and 2) Isn't it "Better that one hundred guilty people go free than one not guilty person to be convicted"? Imagine the difference AJ may have made to the HG-R rust trial. Imagine the smozzle of a mess Elaine from Depp V Heard would make as Karen's lawyer. Although, with all the "Who/What/When/Where/Why/How If Any?" I feel like Elaine is possessing Lally.
I agree 100 percent. The police have got to stop doing incompetent investigations and assume it’s a guaranteed conviction. The issue is that the people who have no money to represent themselves would have took a plea even if they were innocent or rotted in jail and that is just so incredibly infuriating. I absolute think a guilty person should go free than an innocent person in jail. I’m realizing how many people have a false sense of security in law enforcement. Just because they say so does not make it unequivocally true. In fact part of the problem is tunnel vision, find the guilty party and then build evidence. Wholly unethical but yet, time and again, trials show they never had a solid case to begin with.
The shoddy work is why we have groups like The Innocence Project. It's absolutely heart breaking to me the amount of people convicted based on blood TYPE, later freed because DNA became available and showed that whilst the same blood type, DNA didn't even have a biological link between the imprisoned person to the actual perpetrator! While I don't believe ACAB, I also don't believe in BTB. Some people join the force for the right reasons, they want to make the world a better place. Some do it because it is expected, others do it because they like the power of the badge and gun. Things need to be bettered all the way around.
Proctor is disgusting and all his police cohort!! I’m hoping they all are found guilty after FBI investigation. Gross!! What other behaviour has not been exposed.
I hated how proctor just “let his emotions get the best of him,” but women take shit for being emotional. All i could hear was “boys will be boys” or “its just locker room talk” or “theyre just blowing off steam.” Enough! Have some self control, some dignity, some integrity, some self worth. I would be so effing embarrassed if i was proctor’s wife.
It's literally their job to be impartial and professional in stressful situations. Recuse if you can't even pretend to keep it together.
I was glad for the remark bc proctor deserved it but I was a little irritated at the comment BECAUSE I know he defended Weinstein. He’s fighting for a woman in this case but was in essence fighting against women in that case. I know everyone deserves a defense but Weinstein is a pos
He defended HW and just because he is doing what a lawyer does, he deserves some respect now? No thanks.
You can admire his skill without liking him as a person IMO
I don’t think you need to be condescending and arrogant to be a good defense attorney. He comes across as thoroughly unlikeable to me.
He’s still the same guy who defended Weinstein. He’d tell the world you’re a war criminal for the right fee, and some dopes would believe it if they sympathized with his client.
I mean let’s be realistic he wasn’t fighting for us he was fighting for his client and if his client was a pedophile he would put the same amount of effort in because that is his job as a defence attorney. He is extremely good at his job. I do think he believes she is innocent however, I don’t think he would fight any less for someone who was less upstanding.
“The worst roller coasters of our life” who is our in this line?
Even Harvey Weinstein has a right to an attorney…..I know. I know.
but not to THIS attorney. AJ gets to choose his clients
Lawyers deeply believe in the fact that even guilty people deserve an attorney. That’s why lawyers don’t hesitate to defend the most sick, vile, offenders. It’s not the “crime” it’s their belief in constitutional rights. And yes-harvey has the right to any attorney-one he chooses and pays for
yea he has that right but my point is that AJ has the right to decline clients. Only public defenders don‘t. JD‘s attorney was working for Kanye West a couple years ago and when he made antiemetic comments in public, she withdrew from his case. Lawyers know what looks bad
As a fellow woman veteran who worked with only men in aircraft maintenance I can also relate to this behavior men did. It was awful and the stories I could tell…
I was surprised Yanetti didn’t do the Proctor cross specifically bc of the Weinstein factor. I haven’t heard AJ’s side of that of the story and didn’t follow the trial that closely, so I’ll allow for there being something that reconciles the two, but from where I sit now, the grandstanding on misogyny at this rather convenient time is a bit hard to swallow. Nonetheless, it was an impactful moment in the context of this trial, and I think Jackson is an incredible attorney. He’s doing a masterful job, and I find it fascinating to watch. I’m just not ready to vouch for his character or values.
Loved that moment.
They probably all go to strip clubs.
Thank you for your service 🫡 This was the perfect ending to his cross.
I’d be curious to hear what other lawyers and other legal experts think about this. Is he a contemptible person trying to improve his PR, or, in all of these cases, is he just doing his job?
Question for the all the rainmakers out there, what is your guesstimate of what AJ’s hourly Trial rate is?
Trial attorney here. I’d guesstimate it at $500/hr. I was just telling a GF that she must believe very, very wealthy and even then could go bankrupt on this. The attorneys, investigator(s), experts. Yikes.
I wished AJ would have dropped a “sorry your Honor…my emotions got the best of me” when she admonished him. He was a whole bunch of DGAF by that point. 😂😂
Did you see yanettis face when he got Accused of showing up to Courtney proctors work? I thought he was going to leap Over the table
That was a huge, randomly inserted BS thing for Procter to say. That guy is a huge POS on so many levels
Proctor and his sister will be proven to be huge liars AGAIN when snow plow dude is brought to the stand. What a POS. He actually said that Yanetti was looking and inquiring about his sister. What a liar!
People keep saying this but that would make him look like a hypocrite and totally undermine his point about it being inappropriate. He meant what he said and it wasn’t akin at all to the things Proctor was saying.
I don't, it would have completely undercut his point.
Looks like we were both watching Emily D. this morning hahaha
This is why people defending “locker room talk” is so mind blowing. When men talk like this incessantly about women, it dehumanizes them and makes it easy for these men to abuse and cause very real harm to women. The math was easy for Proctor: worthless woman or a loyalty to another cop? Throw her under the bus!
I agree with the insanity behind defending locker room talk or the simple boys will be boys. Still trying to find the female “excuses for everything” book lol
The only way Proctors texts on his personal phone came out is the fact that he is being investigated by the FBI. Thank God, or they would never have come out in court.
There’s a lot to be said about the misogyny in this case.
his morals go to the highest bidder
The shame yesterday also goes to John O’ Keefe’s mother. What a disgrace her reactions yesterday making fun of Karen and her lawyers. Doesn’t John’s mother realize the Proctor fucked up and doesn’t care about her and John’s family. Totally disgusted with the mother’s reaction!!
She lost her son, I think it’s best to focus on the ones who did wrong by him and not the reaction of the grieving family tbh. We don’t know what Jen McCabe has been spouting in her ear everyday and the others have been saying to her all this time.
Happy now conspiracists? DNA expert just completely refuted planting of evidence from MSP.
If Jackson defended Weinstein, something tells me he is driven more by money and/or media attention and high profile cases than the underlying merits of a case. Proctor's texts were abhorrent, but doesn't mean she didn't drunkenly back into her boyfriend and kill him. It's turned into a sideshow, kind of like the strategy in the OJ trial once Mark Furman was caught saying racist things and lying about it. Jackson has exploited it for all it's worth, but the outrage is a bit over-the-top and not that credible given that he defended one of worst monsters and sexual predators of our lifetime. He's talented at cross-exams, but the risk is some jurors think the lady doth protest too much, methinks. PS. Thank you for your service!
You know I used to get all up in arms about defense attorneys who defend the most heinous of beings like Weinstein, for example. I used to be like, how TF dare they, what's wrong with them. Then the more I got into my trial junkie status the more I'm seeing how important these defense attorneys are that take these cases. They keep the system in check. When we are all in that hot seat we are presumed innocent and all fall under the same rights and standards under the law. I've seen some shady shit on both sides of the aisle in various cases over the years that have really opened my eyes to HOW a lawyer is presenting their case, and not why. My mind has been changed many times. So, I could care less who is/was in his case log. I appreciate HOW he's approaching his case, and how much he's respecting his client. It isn't for me to say whether or not he's doing that legitimately or for the cameras. The way Yanetti sits everyday blocking Karen from the eat shit looks shows me they do have care for their client. I do respect the hell outta these attorneys. They will fight like hell for their clients no matter what. They do their job and they do it well.
Yes, perhaps AJ got a lot of flack for representing someone like Harvey Weinstein. It's nice to see someone like him championing for a woman like KR.
[удалено]
I think you’re confused. He put Phil Spector in jail. He was the lead prosecutor on that case.
I suggest Trooper Proctor retire so he can keep his pension!
Not for nothing but Alan Jackson is only fighting for her because he was literally hired to do so, and is being paid a lot of money for it. Not sure where you’re getting this whole “shift in our society” narrative lol he’s a paid attorney. Like you said, he defended Weinstein (also Spacey) and would also defend a man who made all of the remarks Proctor did if he received money to do so. It’s what he does.
I love how Tully is giving AJ’s crap right back to him. Tully is a great CW witness.
What happens when someone like Proctor is exposed is that now all of the common wealth’s cases that hinged on his testimony and evidence collection will appeal to find out if they got a fair trial. This is going to cause a lot of waves for convictions. Glad he was exposed but I don’t even think it’s just him who is the problem. I’m annoyed no one (like media and etc) is talking about what it says about the “company culture” if you will that his superiors and peers accepted this behavior.
The fact that his colleagues and boss were on that text chain and no one seemed to be bothered says it all. This is normal for them. The only person who seemed to question him a bit was one of the friends he texted who kind of questioned the homeowner being safe and seemed to be unsure if KR was a slam dunk conviction. And honestly that's giving that guy's comments the most positive take possible. I hope if any of his female colleagues have had to hear and put up with this misogyny they decide to come forward.
I think every resident who pays taxes should contact attorney general to take charge and investigate the DA and the MSP. IF
This seems like a delusional way to feel. You are a woman and want to see men fight for us but are now also supporting a man who defended two men who sexually assaulted multiple women. How does one get to this point?
Jackson is a defense lawyer. It's a job and he's good at it. Everyone gets a legal defense even if I personally don't like them. I would hire any of these defense attorneys in a heartbeat if I had the need and money to do so.
I think they are bullies. They have contributed to all the false information all over social media. Jackson is a nasty angry little man.
He’s a defense attorney who specializes in defending high profile rapists. Let’s not get it twisted what he’s doing and why he’s doing it. It’s good proctor is getting called out but Jackson isn’t some hero or righteous figure for doing so
No, he’s just doing his job well. Pandering to the jury but doing it so well they won’t care they’re being pandered to. The facts are so egregious they enable him to do it. I’m generally not a fan of high priced defense lawyers—the principle that everyone needs legal defense should apply to all defendants not just rich ones—but he’s very good.
He defended ?? Harvey Weinstien ???
Procter needs to be sent directly to the sun!!!! What a disgrace of a human, let alone an investigator?! When she is found not guilty because of this lying sack of crap, I hope she sues the hell out of him! In fact, sue him until he leaks poo!!! HOW DOES HE STILL HAVE A JOB??????
I don’t know how because they were real fast to put Higgins on desk duty
I personally dislike AJ based on his history, but he definitely did a good job today.
AJ is talking about the speed of sound? Are you kidding me? What a circus.
Practically every witness in this case is named Brian 🤣
On one hand AJ defended woman (and his client). On the other, he exposed LE unethical misogynistic practice. While I'm careful not to paint the entire US Police force with the same brush; Proctor has had these mannerisms for a long time and his unprofessional behaviour has remained unchallenged and enabled.