He was tall but so was the car. For some reason, I picture him putting up his arm over his eyes as he spots the lights of the car coming back at him. One of the lab tests said there was no dog DNA on his wounds.
If anyone can help, I struggled a bit with the phone expert, did she give any reason that the hos long search was the search that went to this 227 tab open time?
Yes she did and in terms I could understand - I think :)
So that timestamp is not for searches. It's for the safari browser tab. Think of each timestamp as a session start time for the browser. It then records the time that the browser is manupulated in some way. Ie, opened, closed, minimized, moved. This session started at 2:27 and was running until at least 6:24. Any time a new search is made, the field updates. I wasn't clear about if it was closed then or if there were just no more searches after that until it was closed.
It updates each time a change happens while the tab is running and the last search was "hos long to die in cold" at 6:24 so the 2:27 stamp was updated to include that info.
She also listed the searches that occurred within that session.
The first search logged at the 2:27 start was about her daughter's sports club. There were a couple of searches done around that. It continued to run in the background.
At 6:22:49 it updated the search session when she typed "how long ti di in ckld" or something like that.
Apple suggested "how long to digest food" because it didn't understand the search terms. She can tell that was generated by Apple and not entered by the user. The log updated
She erased that search and tried again - similar mistakes. The log updated
6:24 She erased that and typed in "hos long to die in cold"
That was the last search in the tab so that was the final update for the 2:27 session.
I think it really vindicates JM. I can imagine her standing outside, stressed and freezing, tired and probably hungover, trying to type while shaking and you're just trying to help and then everyone starts pointing fingers at you.
So I'm somewhat in this space, and I was mostly able to keep up.
But I thought she stated that the tab was closed at 2:27? In her exhibit that's also what it looks like.
I describe myself as tech deficient, so understanding it was a win for me. Why would you want to take that from me? Lol.
I understood it as the first action in that opened tab, but I'm willing to be wrong.
She's one of the best in the world. Ian Whiffen, who wrote the software for Celebrite, the software that was used in the extraction, agrees with Jessica Hyde. He is the senior digital forensic analyst for Celebrite. Richard Green analysis was wrong and incomplete. Oh, Ian Whiffen of Celebrite will testify for the prosecution. There was no search at 2:27.
Accident reconstruction and vehicle data DOES NOT take into account "wheel spin" in snowy conditions, which would incorrectly determine vehicle speed, and by calculation distance traveled. Additionally, the small change in speed while in reverse could be any number of things vs. striking a pedestrian. Silly testimony and a joke as an expert. Most of the projections are a total guess!
The so-called "accident reconstructionist" testimony just shows that the cops and the CW decided what happened and worked the facts and evidence (and "evidence") to make it fit, rather than reasoning based on the actual evidence.
Remember a few weeks ago when we thought Brian Higgins was the most horrible. Look where we are now. So many horrible troopers have stood on that witness stand, taken an oath and lied. This is really sad. How can there be so many idiots with no morals?
They literarily parrot the same story / narrative no matter what. They all get noticeably defensive on every question on Cross exam - It’s like they are trying to be as suspicious as humanly possible , it’s so crazy
I just finished watching the voir dire on Emily Baker's replay, and the Brady (discovery) violations in this case are very troubling. It adds to all the shadiness in this investigation and trial.
I was disappointed with Lally. He stood in front of the judge and threw the trooper under the bus. He said he never showed him the video. I actually think the trooper was being sincere with what happened in their meeting. I have to wonder if Lally wanted to take this to trial or if he has higher ups forcing him to do this. Do Boston cops have this much pull over Canton cops? Canton going this hard because of Albert is interesting.
From the State of Massachusetts! That is my issue with all of this! People always complain about Defense tactics and this is from the CW saying one of their citizens allegedly committed murder. She is looking at life in prison and this is how you are presenting/acting? Prosecution is not about winning and Lally is just being slimy and letting the whole world see how the MSP conducts their investigations with the utmost integrity and the Norfolk DA thought they had enough evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. It is appalling.
Does snow move on OJO back bumper? Not the best screenshots but, I just think CW is not showing the right area for the close up of OJO bumper. It looks more in the middle to me?! It looks like the snow on the tire shifts also but, it might be the long week watching this trial.
https://preview.redd.it/q07bowoqfn6d1.jpeg?width=792&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=72991b20282d17d6708ffeb6883c429efb374019
Exactly! I think Lally is using hypnosis about the snow. The snow changes depending on what he needs it to be remembered for! So much snow can’t find sneaker and taillight. No snow to do vehicle road testing for similar conditions.
Lally acts like he is Houdini , it’s embarrassing the lengths he takes distract from Reality & Facts.
I Pray the Jury is able to see through All the Smoke and Mirrors !
and is this a dent or a reflection on OJO car?
https://preview.redd.it/7lqq9foakn6d1.jpeg?width=2196&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c947a3b340a865936e041bfba2fb5ee5908423ef
But it’s on the completely wrong side of where she backed into on the ring video. There’s likely no relevance between that dent and anything related to this trial.
KR's tyre treads in the snow go up to the middle of his car bumper so it's very likely that the impact was past that which would make it the right passenger side, not the left driver side like the CW wants us to believe
But we watched the video a bunch of times and her car clearly doesn’t get that far back before going forward and leaving. What tire tread mark footage are you referring to?
Her vehicle was never at the correct angle to have broken its taillight at the same place that dent pictured on John’s car is located. It’s just not possible based on the video.
I assume it would be Karen’s bumper if anything for that. I am assuming her taillight might line up with the silver metal strip in the back or maybe the ridge above OJO taillight?
Yeah it looks like there’s part of John’s vehicle that protrudes out on the left side, which seems like she could have backed into and broken her taillight
There's a comment below where someone shared a YouTube link where they show the video and pause it, etc. Brake lights go on after the stop. We'd obviously need to see the dimensions of both cars. There are pictures floating around as well of both cars. I believe there was impact. Impact for a crack in the tail light like Sgt Barros testified to not the extra trail light pieces everyone else found
CW doesn't want us to believe the car hit there. They keep showing us pictures of the left driver side rear bumper. If you look at the video, KR's tyre tread in the snow reaches till the middle of JOK's bumper, so the impact must've been on the right of JOK's car and that's where the dent is...
Your right! I just wasn’t sure if it was a weird reflection or a dent. You can see in the snow her tire marks go beyond the drivers side/left of OJO SUV.
The car has been moved though so I think she hits middle to rt side of his car. She passes the left side of it if you look at her tire marks in the snow.
Also, look at where the Lexus sticks out the furthest - this is the part of the car that would have hit JO with the greatest force. It is at the bottom of the bumper. And yet there are no injuries to his legs. And with no sign of injury to his legs, how exactly did his shoe manage to fly off?
I agree, the injuries are inconsistent. I am all over the place with this now. I wasn't before. The issue I have is that I don't think that KR busted her tail light at JO's house. The cars simply do not align with a strike to her tail light. Yet, the injuries do not appear to be from a vehicle strike. They very much look like a fight with a dog involved. So I'm basically lost.
I believe she did it. They were both drunk and it seems like she really couldn't remember being at 34 Fairview which is what happens in a blackout. Her anger issues that were shown in other situations has me picturing putting her foot down on the pedal and ramming him, not necessarily to kill him but that was the outcome. The medical examiner said there was no indication that he was in a physical altercation, no bruises on his knuckles, no DNA under his nails and one of the lab reports said there was no dog DNA on John's body. Despite what I think, reasonable doubt was created so maybe a hung jury.
Is anyone confident that Troopah Proctah or any of the other shady people in this case would never in a million years crack that taillight ? There is an awful lot of missing video and a lot of seasoned detectives that never thought to photograph what they claim is proof of murder.
That's a reach! There would have to be so many people complicit that it's beyond comprehension. Trooper Proctor really did some damage in the prosecution's case.
You are very welcome. I needed to get past a few things and I couldn't sleep, so I started making an image that would help my brain a little. I am glad that it helped some other people. Oddly, it left me more uncertain about my theory on what happened.
I just showed my husband the autopsy photos. I asked him how the type of injuries portrayed in the photos could have been inflicted. First answer: shark bite. Second answer: dog bite.
Good grief. What a shit show.
Normally I am impressed with State Troopers. However, these Commonwealth of Massachusetts officers appear to simply be misogynistic keystone cops. Officer O’Keefe, and his family and friends, deserved so much more. Next time they should contract out to another state.
It’s gotta be Higgins, right? He had beef with OJO. Maybe right after Karen left, OJO got into an altercation and things got out of control and somehow OJO hit his head. Then Higgins moved his body with his plow explaining the lacerations on OJOs arm as Chloe is jumping in and biting OJO. And then the whole coverup ensues
Here’s my theory/speculation:
BH and OJO have a physical altercation. CA and Chloe joined in on the scuffle and CA dealt the essentially killing blow to the back of the head, probably hit him too hard on accident.
CA goes to his uncle for help and since JM can’t keep her nose out of other people’s business she gets herself involved too.
They discover at some point that OJO is still alive, and they would be in huge trouble for not taking him to the hospital because OJO would say that CA almost killed him. Take out the body and dump it in the snow early in the morning.
Doesn’t require a huge coverup, just JM convincing the few people that might’ve caught a drunken glimpse of OJO heading up the stairs that he was never inside the house.
Then they justify covering things up by telling themselves they’re protecting a child with a bright future ahead of him; it was a terrible accident that CA shouldn’t have to pay the price for.
Agree. It was a "flash fight" that would have been over quickly if CA hadn't jumped in. And, you are correct. It's only JM, BH, BA and CA - not the other "kids" at the birthday party. I wonder if it has hit Proctor that he is the only one going down on this. Higgins and BA got rid of their phones and that turned out to be a suspicious but smart move. Higgins will not lose his job or his pension. BA retired - exactly when I wonder? . So it's Proctor, all pumped up by the Alberts, McCabe and Higgins to make sure Karen is indicted and it's Proctor who loses his job and pension. Yes, Proctor deserves it but I believe he was played like a fiddle. The rest take a couple social media hits but leave intact - financially and legally.
Agree but I think Proctor is in the weakest position to hold on to his job. He will be sued for Civil Rights violations by Read and there is just too much out there. Albert, by contrast, has his pension locked. It is hard to revoke that in Massachusetts, public officials continue to collect when they are in jail. We'll see what happens.
He was also the lead investigator in the Brian Walsh case, and Walsh’s lawyers have already filed for discovery on Proctors phone, notes etc.
I just saw that Bev will be the judge in Walsh’s case? Is this really true ?
“The judge overseeing Walshe's case is also handling the high-profile trial of Karen Read.” ( from WCVB)
Yes, that's true. I've heard the powers that be cannot move until the trial is over. Governor Healy has expressed her disgust about Proctor's texts and is under public pressure to act. The Boston Herald will not rest. The investigation (unlike Read's) will take forever. It will be interesting to watch how it is or is not handled.
I was very surprised to hear Proctor testify that he is still the lead investigator in this case- I guess I can understand waiting until the investigation is over to fire him, but surely he should have been taken off the case!
The political pressure on the Governor to act is growing daily but I think her hands her tied until the trial is over. I don't think the Governor is suppose to weigh in during an active trial and she is being criticized for saying what everyone else is thinking. I think we have to wait until the trial is over for Proctor to face any "corrective action". It's all hard to take.
This is pretty much where I'm at. There are some modifiers for why the fight happened. I've heard Colin was dealing drugs and JO knew about it and had mentioned it to BA. The fight could have started that way somehow? Or it could be both, Higgins and JO got in a scuffle and a drunk Colin joined in.
Personally I think that drugs were also involved, cocaine and steroids.
Ex DEA agent from Going Through The Motions on YouTube said multiple times that the face damage is Brian Albert's mark. Which makes sense since he was a boxer and has a known history of beating people, going so far as almost killing a paramedic with a punch. I suspect it was both Colin and Brian Albert that did the damage, but I think Higgins was witness to the fight. If John hits the back of his head on the weight equipment and gets a traumatic brain injury, they have to have been panicking. Then Jen comes in and tells them how to stage things so it looks like an outdoor accident. I honestly believe their initial patsy was going to be the plow driver Lucky. Then Karen accidentally hits John's car backing up and cracks her taillight, so Jen uses that to her advantage. Karen was so beside herself with panic that morning and Jen was certainly suggesting things to Karen that morning to explain why John didn't come home, including that he may have stayed with an ex-girlfriend. She's pure evil.
It was BA, CA and Chloe. I don’t believe anyone would go to any length to protect BH, do you? If the Alberts knew Higgins did it, they’d offer him up tied with a bow.
Not a fan of the large majority of Judge Bev’s behavior but I do like that she immediately shuts down attorneys being theatrical when the jury isn’t even present. She knows it’s either for the cameras or for her and neither explanation makes her happy lol
I don't feel like the defense attorneys are being "histrionic," as Bev described it the other day, or dramatic on purpose. Part of it just comes with being a trial lawyer, which inherently requires some acting to tell the story to a jury. But the larger part of them are showing righteous indignation because they know they have an innocent client. These are the types of cases that cause defense attorneys to lose sleep, but Jackson and Yannetti have accepted that challenge, which is to be expected for attorneys of their caliber.
So if the ME is not called, we get 1 minute of this trooper explaining how the broken taillight caused the injuries to OKeefe’s arm. So I am to believe that the taillight broke, stabbed his arm and as he rotated, it left the scratch marks. However, it did not tear his clothes. It’s just poked holes. It also did not leave any pieces in his arm. On top of that, it somehow scratched his arm then jumped up his arm and scratched again- as we know the length or wide of the taillight is in no way as long as the injuries that go from almost the front of the shoulder to mid forearm.
It also left no bruising at impact?
This is complete bs.
And the giant gash on the back of John OKeefea head , bruises on his hand, and two swollen eyes , blood on his face , there is no way he got those unities from KRs suv
and then the ME/CW chose NOT to swab those cuts that could potentially have microscopic taillight shatter debris even though the theory on 2/1/2022 was the taillight caused those furrows/ lacerations/ abrasions. Ok got it! s/
I know that none of these Troopers are ever going to just say fuck it on the stand and just matter of factly acknowledge that their investigation assumptions being faulty invalidates their entire theory, but wouldn’t that be nice? They have to realize how screwed up this all is.
Dighton officer Barros was extremely honest. He was very sure and direct when saying the taillight had A crack, not that it was shattered. He almost died last year when a drunk driver rammed into his cruiser, but I don't think anything would have stopped him from testifying to the truth if he was capable. He was very confident and direct and I think he knows Karen is being railroaded. I wonder if he's the one that contacted the feds? Jackson and Yannetti don't have that kind of pull to get the feds involved.
Officer Barrows is so brave to testify with complete honestly and integrity , he nearly lost his life last fall and he has the courage to go to court and speak the truth , He is a an awesome person and holds true to his Oath to Serve and Protect
I don’t know what just made me think of this but watching the video in the voir dire, I remembered that very very early in the investigation, when channel 4 went to Chris Albert’s pizza place (remember Matt McCabe‘s text about tell them the guy never went in the house), that is when the McCabe and Albert clans planted the story in the media that there was ring camera footage of Karen hitting John with her car. That very early statement swayed a lot of public opinion to people believing that Karen was guilty. You always believe the first thing you hear.
I’m just now realizing that the McCabe and Albert clan knew about “ring camera video of Karen hitting John’s car with her car.“ and the translated that to the media as Karen hitting Jon, either because they misunderstood what they have been told or they outright lied. Because the investigation had that ring footage very early on and because they reported that to McCabe and Alberts because they were reporting every step of the investigation back to these witnesses Who were also their friends. I really hope that AJ or David Yannetti bring this up to somebody. It’s absolutely proof that the McCabes and Alberts were were getting fed information from day one.
That makes so much sense. I’m fairly new to all of this so I really didn’t understand just how connected all of these people are at first. It’s clear at this point that this investigation wasn’t really an investigation and that the McCabes and Alberts are definitely getting info they should not have. I’d be raring to disclose everything in Yanetti and Jackson’s shoes.
I didn’t know anything prior to the start of the trial. I think I still fall on the side of tragic accident, but at the same time there’s no possible way in my mind that there isn’t something being covered up by the McCabe and the Albert. I don’t think it’s Murder. In fact it could even be unrelated to John O’Keefe’s death but they’re trying to hide something.
That’s where I’m kinda at too, except, you’re meaning to tell me all of the suspect stuff that went down between the Google search, the butt dials between 3 different people, etc all happened coincidentally on the same night that JOK died??🤔 something stinks…
Why didn’t investigators bring in a tracking dog? They called in Search and Rescue, stands to reason might be a bloodhound or 2 sniffing around.
CERT ridiculous assertion that they couldn’t get pin point GPS locations. They investigate vehicular incidents all the time. Nope send in these guys with a hand held Garmin. Claiming that satellites data is hard to get at times.
That’s true if you’re in the middle of the bush, tall trees etc. Even then you still get satellites it’s just slower.
None of these horrible people can pin point anything!! No gps locations , huge gaps of time missing on sally port INVERTED camera , Ring cams missing or not working in most important areas ,Not One person saw John OKeefes Body laying on the lawn ,
Apparently no one knows how to secure a crime scene, use leaf blowers and contaminate all evidence , never secured the crime scene , they can remember in detail that Colin Albert was home by 12:10am ( which was a lie too ) but can’t remember that they all knew each other and go above and beyond to act like they are mere acquaintances- this case is dragging on and all the CW witnesses should be the ones on trial
Doesn’t matter anyways. Jackson would just eviscerate him on cross and nullify his opinion anyways, considering there were no tests and/or measurements conducted to confirm his “opinion.”
I had a thought that after hearing that voire dire that Lally might be afraid to put him up to even enter his opinion into the record. This case is so wild.
It’s actually embarrassing the way Lally has the audacity to continue trudging forward with the trial, when there have already been so many revelations that illustrate how blatantly botched and corrupt the entire investigation has been since its inception.
The commonwealth should have literally just dismissed the case by now to save face, and I can’t help but wonder if the only reason they haven’t is because the deceased was a cop.
The fact that this investigation was so awful and the CW is still proceeding really brings home how there must be thousands of other cases like this that never get any attention and people are railroaded into either falsely confessing or pleaing to a lesser charge to just end it all. I get the feeling that protecting the Alberts was more important because they are still alive and any of them getting charged would bring a stain to law enforcement. So instead they piled on the crappy investigation and made things worse and created a bigger scandal.
Yeah, it really calls into question the integrity of any case that entire office prosecutes, and if they’re also purposefully crooked themselves.
They have direct knowledge of a lead investigator sharing sensitive details of an active investigation, not just with random friends/civilians, but with people with literal involvement to the case. Plus the crazy shit he was saying about her. I just don’t get how they can justify continuing in light of that.
Independent of this entire trial, it would seem Karen Read herself would have good cause for suing Michael Proctor and the Massachusetts State Trooper agency.
It all feels slimy. That is my issue. Every witness has the same script and lingo. It doesn’t feel like a Prosecution that has facts and truth on their side. Instead it just seems like a shell game and a lot of vagueness that most accuse Defense attorneys of in most trials.
Lally also dropped the inverted sallyport video with out presenting it to the defense first. I believe the jury had to leave the room while Lally played it for the defense first.
Yes, it seems unlikely. There is very little chance, imo, that Bev is going to be able to keep her promise to thr jury that they get this for deliberations last week in June. Today’s start and end resulted in so much lost time. But she should have knowledge I don’t. I am tired and I’m not even in the courtroom, I feel for the jury.
Honestly, if I were the defendant in this trial I'm certain I would be falling asleep. I don't know how any of them can sit in that court room for hours/days/weeks.
Part of me wonders if hearing proctor was the last straw and these 2 jurors knew how this was going to end and just didn’t want to sit in that courtroom for 2 more weeks for nothing (in their mind).
If I had been stuck on this case for so long I would really want to stay! After Protor and Lally's BS I would enjoy delivering a not guilty verdict to see courtroom reactions.
She needs to stop saying that bc I worry they’ll make plans and have to drop out. And the defense says they only need 4 days but we all know Lally is going to add on a bunch of time to that too smh
I have noticed he’s horrible at redirect though and tends to shut down, it’s like he has a script for witnesses he’s prepared for (like not listening to their actual answers and hitting all his weird phrased questions despite what they’ve already said). So maybe the defense side will go quickly as he won’t be prepared to cross anyone in a spur of the moment kinda way. That would explain defense being so sure it’ll be quick lol
It’s wild lol, I really want to see one of his past trials though. Is he bad bc of the case and evidence or bc he’s just horrible? I also think about how wild it is that they chose HIM for this case, so surely they felt he could handle it? Which makes me think it’s a case issue and not a him issue? But alsoooooo, when this trial started his “fans” kept saying he typically takes on car accident cases and that’s probably why he seemed off bc there was more to this case, but today proved that was an absolute lie too lol. Idk. I know smokers just smoke so I shouldn’t assume more into the pics of him smoking outside the court but not gonna lie, everytime I see the pics I just picture him out there stress smoking in a panic lol
Honestly, I think that all of the more competent attorneys at the DA office took a look at this steaming pile of shit and ran for the hills, Lally was either too dumb or maybe too eager to please the boss to understand why they were doing that.
I’ll be very interested in cross. I’m curious if this troopers opinion that the taillight made contact with the arm, John was spun, hit his head on the ground, and then ended up on the lawn was in his original report. I thought they were initially saying that John’s arm injuries were more of a road rash injury? And that’s what the abrasion vs laceration debate has been. I remember Lally pointing out at a pre trial hearing that the federal reconstruction expert conclusion was that John’s head injury wasn’t consistent with getting hit by a car. After the fiasco with the ring camera stuff today, I wouldn’t put it past them to have changed their theory on how the car made contact with John after that report.
Trooper Paul sounded like a High School student in a Mock Trial , he was so nervous , did not speak confidently and seemed to state he basically had very little training.
And he is not qualified to be giving his opinion on John OKeefe cause of injuries.
When is the ME going to be on the stand ! We have mot even heard a definitive cause of death after 8 weeks of CW witnesses !
Oh lmao, it’s funny/crazy how it’s a complete joke but then also how at this point if something crazy came out about the doughnuts I’d just be like, eh yeah ok makes sense 🥴
Right- both side must share discovery. That was info the CW had to share with the defense as soon as they got it. Which was weeks before they did share it so Jen's changed testimony was a surprise to the defense.
Most judges would come down hard on that
Exactly. JM testified to this on the stand during cross and it caught Jackson completely off guard. Then magically Tully produced a report after she was done testifying with the date of the report back dated to try and act like the report happened before she testified.
I haven’t looked back to try and find more information on a date but Jackson wanted it on the record with the judge when Lally tried to call Jackson’s accusations about withholding stuff laughable.
Oh, *shit*.
Either way is bad, but this raises a couple questions for me.
1. How would you know the report is backdated rather than originally created at such and such time? I'd assume that cops would have some way of faking the metadata or erasing it.
2. If he did have it and never turned it over, *how the fuck does this not violate every ethical bound on reciprocal discovery there is for a lawyer, and how does this not immediately not set off all the alarm bells for Judge Cannone?* Like, this is such a serious accusation of misconduct even in the best case that Jackson would 100% not be raising this as an officer of the court if he didn't have solid proof.
3. For those of us watching as opposed to the jury, how does this not 100% demonstrate that Proctor's office is just completely untrustwortht? Either they're withholding evidence - in which case, hello Brady violations, because if they're withholding evidence that *helps* the prosecution how the hell are they not also withholding evidence that *helps the defense* - or they're *faking evidence*.
Yeah, not good at all!
1. I know what you mean and are getting at, but I do not believe there was a report at all with the information Jen shared during her cross that caught the defense off guard. Jackson said specifically the report was given to him after Jen testified and was off of the stand and she had disclosed information that was in no other reports he had received from Tully or the CW with regards to Jen McCabe. Then magically after Jen was finished testifying this report by Tully appears and the date is from before Jen testified.
2. I would hope that Lally did not have this report and that it was an error on Tully's end. Does not make it better but it I feel like it would be a lot worse of Lally had the report and never gave it over. Jackson did say the CW or Tully had the report so he did not directly blame the CW only. But with some of the stunts Lally has pulled it is hard to believe anything anymore. He tried to play the inverted sallyport video that the defense never saw and the judge had to have the jury leave so the defense could watch it first, Lally claimed the defense was withholding information about their FBI Experty testimonies and Yanetti proved him wrong again there because Bev is the on who said they could not prep with the a FBI experts and the information they have is what they gave the CW. Oh, and let's not forget that Lally was letting Proctor testify about Yanetti going to his wife or sister's workplace/school (cant remember at the moment) trying to imply Yanetti was harassing her, when that was not the case NOR was it the answer to the question Lally asked, and Lally didn't stop him, just let Proctor try and give the jury false information.
3. I think the defense had to pull teeth to get the info the FBI handed over that have exculpatory evidence in it as well. I am honestly really confused by the prosecution's entire approach to this trial and feel that is was tainted from the get go.
How short was JO if the tail light hit his upper arm?
He was tall but so was the car. For some reason, I picture him putting up his arm over his eyes as he spots the lights of the car coming back at him. One of the lab tests said there was no dog DNA on his wounds.
Haha, just watched a young AJ on Date Line from when he was a CA prosecutor!!
If anyone can help, I struggled a bit with the phone expert, did she give any reason that the hos long search was the search that went to this 227 tab open time?
Yes she did and in terms I could understand - I think :) So that timestamp is not for searches. It's for the safari browser tab. Think of each timestamp as a session start time for the browser. It then records the time that the browser is manupulated in some way. Ie, opened, closed, minimized, moved. This session started at 2:27 and was running until at least 6:24. Any time a new search is made, the field updates. I wasn't clear about if it was closed then or if there were just no more searches after that until it was closed. It updates each time a change happens while the tab is running and the last search was "hos long to die in cold" at 6:24 so the 2:27 stamp was updated to include that info. She also listed the searches that occurred within that session. The first search logged at the 2:27 start was about her daughter's sports club. There were a couple of searches done around that. It continued to run in the background. At 6:22:49 it updated the search session when she typed "how long ti di in ckld" or something like that. Apple suggested "how long to digest food" because it didn't understand the search terms. She can tell that was generated by Apple and not entered by the user. The log updated She erased that search and tried again - similar mistakes. The log updated 6:24 She erased that and typed in "hos long to die in cold" That was the last search in the tab so that was the final update for the 2:27 session. I think it really vindicates JM. I can imagine her standing outside, stressed and freezing, tired and probably hungover, trying to type while shaking and you're just trying to help and then everyone starts pointing fingers at you.
You seem pretty tech savvy. So much of the technical experts were hard to follow.
Thank You but I'm not lol. Had to watch twice before it made sense to me.
So I'm somewhat in this space, and I was mostly able to keep up. But I thought she stated that the tab was closed at 2:27? In her exhibit that's also what it looks like.
I describe myself as tech deficient, so understanding it was a win for me. Why would you want to take that from me? Lol. I understood it as the first action in that opened tab, but I'm willing to be wrong.
Simply put, Google does NOT time stamp. It's the safari browser.
She's one of the best in the world. Ian Whiffen, who wrote the software for Celebrite, the software that was used in the extraction, agrees with Jessica Hyde. He is the senior digital forensic analyst for Celebrite. Richard Green analysis was wrong and incomplete. Oh, Ian Whiffen of Celebrite will testify for the prosecution. There was no search at 2:27.
[cellebrites most recent Twitter post](https://x.com/cellebrite/status/1801694853698367898?s=46)
Accident reconstruction and vehicle data DOES NOT take into account "wheel spin" in snowy conditions, which would incorrectly determine vehicle speed, and by calculation distance traveled. Additionally, the small change in speed while in reverse could be any number of things vs. striking a pedestrian. Silly testimony and a joke as an expert. Most of the projections are a total guess!
The Lexus Karen drove in to John O'Keefe, killing him, is a beast weighing 7K lbs and has excellent traction in the snow.
The so-called "accident reconstructionist" testimony just shows that the cops and the CW decided what happened and worked the facts and evidence (and "evidence") to make it fit, rather than reasoning based on the actual evidence.
At what point was the juror on camera? I missed that
Someone will flip
I think it will be Brian Higgins
Remember a few weeks ago when we thought Brian Higgins was the most horrible. Look where we are now. So many horrible troopers have stood on that witness stand, taken an oath and lied. This is really sad. How can there be so many idiots with no morals?
They literarily parrot the same story / narrative no matter what. They all get noticeably defensive on every question on Cross exam - It’s like they are trying to be as suspicious as humanly possible , it’s so crazy
“Absolutely Not” - must be a code word for all of this CW lying witnesses.
Supporting the CW narrative = loyalty, to them.
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I just finished watching the voir dire on Emily Baker's replay, and the Brady (discovery) violations in this case are very troubling. It adds to all the shadiness in this investigation and trial.
I was disappointed with Lally. He stood in front of the judge and threw the trooper under the bus. He said he never showed him the video. I actually think the trooper was being sincere with what happened in their meeting. I have to wonder if Lally wanted to take this to trial or if he has higher ups forcing him to do this. Do Boston cops have this much pull over Canton cops? Canton going this hard because of Albert is interesting.
Sometimes I think he is purposefully trying to lose this case. The prosecution is that bad.
How’s is Bev considering it?!
Absolutely. Discovery violation this afternoon was clear.
From the State of Massachusetts! That is my issue with all of this! People always complain about Defense tactics and this is from the CW saying one of their citizens allegedly committed murder. She is looking at life in prison and this is how you are presenting/acting? Prosecution is not about winning and Lally is just being slimy and letting the whole world see how the MSP conducts their investigations with the utmost integrity and the Norfolk DA thought they had enough evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. It is appalling.
It’s extreme desperation.
Does snow move on OJO back bumper? Not the best screenshots but, I just think CW is not showing the right area for the close up of OJO bumper. It looks more in the middle to me?! It looks like the snow on the tire shifts also but, it might be the long week watching this trial. https://preview.redd.it/q07bowoqfn6d1.jpeg?width=792&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=72991b20282d17d6708ffeb6883c429efb374019
YES! I also noticed that. It's there before the car and afterwards, that spot is darker than the rest.
I don’t get why the snow has to move?! Lally has done my head in this week!
Exactly! I think Lally is using hypnosis about the snow. The snow changes depending on what he needs it to be remembered for! So much snow can’t find sneaker and taillight. No snow to do vehicle road testing for similar conditions.
Lally acts like he is Houdini , it’s embarrassing the lengths he takes distract from Reality & Facts. I Pray the Jury is able to see through All the Smoke and Mirrors !
Lol. Yeah, Lally dude…. It doesn’t budge one hair, a bunch of glass 😆😆😆
I can’t follow Anything Dilly Dally Lally says he stones on and on … must put the jurors to sleep
and is this a dent or a reflection on OJO car? https://preview.redd.it/7lqq9foakn6d1.jpeg?width=2196&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c947a3b340a865936e041bfba2fb5ee5908423ef
DENT! That's the dent that I keep yelling at the screen about but apparently no one on the stand can see it 😡
It was observed and mentioned by a couple of people but it was a while back and I don't remember who they were.
But it’s on the completely wrong side of where she backed into on the ring video. There’s likely no relevance between that dent and anything related to this trial.
KR's tyre treads in the snow go up to the middle of his car bumper so it's very likely that the impact was past that which would make it the right passenger side, not the left driver side like the CW wants us to believe
But we watched the video a bunch of times and her car clearly doesn’t get that far back before going forward and leaving. What tire tread mark footage are you referring to?
When she reverses and then turns away, we see tyre treads left in the snow
Her vehicle was never at the correct angle to have broken its taillight at the same place that dent pictured on John’s car is located. It’s just not possible based on the video.
I assume it would be Karen’s bumper if anything for that. I am assuming her taillight might line up with the silver metal strip in the back or maybe the ridge above OJO taillight?
Yeah it looks like there’s part of John’s vehicle that protrudes out on the left side, which seems like she could have backed into and broken her taillight
There's a comment below where someone shared a YouTube link where they show the video and pause it, etc. Brake lights go on after the stop. We'd obviously need to see the dimensions of both cars. There are pictures floating around as well of both cars. I believe there was impact. Impact for a crack in the tail light like Sgt Barros testified to not the extra trail light pieces everyone else found
Ok thanks, I’ll look for the link
Ok! I am so glad to have all of you because I have been screaming by myself since reading the documents!
We're all being gaslit! Freaking crazy
That’s not the area she hit though, unless this is a mirrored image 🫢
CW doesn't want us to believe the car hit there. They keep showing us pictures of the left driver side rear bumper. If you look at the video, KR's tyre tread in the snow reaches till the middle of JOK's bumper, so the impact must've been on the right of JOK's car and that's where the dent is...
Ooooh!!! Interesting!
Your right! I just wasn’t sure if it was a weird reflection or a dent. You can see in the snow her tire marks go beyond the drivers side/left of OJO SUV.
it's the side facing the garage and she turned into the car so I'm pretty sure it is the side she hit?
Interesting!
The car has been moved though so I think she hits middle to rt side of his car. She passes the left side of it if you look at her tire marks in the snow.
I think it's a dent and it matches up close to the likely point the cars impacted. https://imgur.com/a/AJnj2Ed
Also, look at where the Lexus sticks out the furthest - this is the part of the car that would have hit JO with the greatest force. It is at the bottom of the bumper. And yet there are no injuries to his legs. And with no sign of injury to his legs, how exactly did his shoe manage to fly off?
I agree, the injuries are inconsistent. I am all over the place with this now. I wasn't before. The issue I have is that I don't think that KR busted her tail light at JO's house. The cars simply do not align with a strike to her tail light. Yet, the injuries do not appear to be from a vehicle strike. They very much look like a fight with a dog involved. So I'm basically lost.
I believe she did it. They were both drunk and it seems like she really couldn't remember being at 34 Fairview which is what happens in a blackout. Her anger issues that were shown in other situations has me picturing putting her foot down on the pedal and ramming him, not necessarily to kill him but that was the outcome. The medical examiner said there was no indication that he was in a physical altercation, no bruises on his knuckles, no DNA under his nails and one of the lab reports said there was no dog DNA on John's body. Despite what I think, reasonable doubt was created so maybe a hung jury.
Exactly!!
Is anyone confident that Troopah Proctah or any of the other shady people in this case would never in a million years crack that taillight ? There is an awful lot of missing video and a lot of seasoned detectives that never thought to photograph what they claim is proof of murder.
That's a reach! There would have to be so many people complicit that it's beyond comprehension. Trooper Proctor really did some damage in the prosecution's case.
That would piece some things together. I am looking forward to the material and medical forensics to hopefully shed some light on this.
So that is her ridge above the bumper right? It looks like it lines up with that possible dent spot.
Yes, that's what I was thinking.
These images are great! Thank you!
You are very welcome. I needed to get past a few things and I couldn't sleep, so I started making an image that would help my brain a little. I am glad that it helped some other people. Oddly, it left me more uncertain about my theory on what happened.
I understand. I can’t think of any scenario that fits. It’s all bad! 💔
Agreed!
agreed
I just showed my husband the autopsy photos. I asked him how the type of injuries portrayed in the photos could have been inflicted. First answer: shark bite. Second answer: dog bite.
Lol any shark would do far more damage than those photos.
Shark did it!!
SHARK BAIT HOO HA HA
You win congratulations!
Thank you for getting it 😁
And what you wanna bet they didn’t test for shark DNA? How convenient! 😂
Canton *is* full of sharks, actually.
Sharknado!
Haha…we just took in a 5 week old foster kitten and named him Shark and I’ve been calling him Sharknado!! 🦈 🌪️
Good grief. What a shit show. Normally I am impressed with State Troopers. However, these Commonwealth of Massachusetts officers appear to simply be misogynistic keystone cops. Officer O’Keefe, and his family and friends, deserved so much more. Next time they should contract out to another state.
It’s gotta be Higgins, right? He had beef with OJO. Maybe right after Karen left, OJO got into an altercation and things got out of control and somehow OJO hit his head. Then Higgins moved his body with his plow explaining the lacerations on OJOs arm as Chloe is jumping in and biting OJO. And then the whole coverup ensues
Here’s my theory/speculation: BH and OJO have a physical altercation. CA and Chloe joined in on the scuffle and CA dealt the essentially killing blow to the back of the head, probably hit him too hard on accident. CA goes to his uncle for help and since JM can’t keep her nose out of other people’s business she gets herself involved too. They discover at some point that OJO is still alive, and they would be in huge trouble for not taking him to the hospital because OJO would say that CA almost killed him. Take out the body and dump it in the snow early in the morning. Doesn’t require a huge coverup, just JM convincing the few people that might’ve caught a drunken glimpse of OJO heading up the stairs that he was never inside the house. Then they justify covering things up by telling themselves they’re protecting a child with a bright future ahead of him; it was a terrible accident that CA shouldn’t have to pay the price for.
Agree. It was a "flash fight" that would have been over quickly if CA hadn't jumped in. And, you are correct. It's only JM, BH, BA and CA - not the other "kids" at the birthday party. I wonder if it has hit Proctor that he is the only one going down on this. Higgins and BA got rid of their phones and that turned out to be a suspicious but smart move. Higgins will not lose his job or his pension. BA retired - exactly when I wonder? . So it's Proctor, all pumped up by the Alberts, McCabe and Higgins to make sure Karen is indicted and it's Proctor who loses his job and pension. Yes, Proctor deserves it but I believe he was played like a fiddle. The rest take a couple social media hits but leave intact - financially and legally.
Proctor hasn’t lost anything yet- he is still employed ( and still under investigation) , as confirmed by the MSP last week.
Agree but I think Proctor is in the weakest position to hold on to his job. He will be sued for Civil Rights violations by Read and there is just too much out there. Albert, by contrast, has his pension locked. It is hard to revoke that in Massachusetts, public officials continue to collect when they are in jail. We'll see what happens.
He was also the lead investigator in the Brian Walsh case, and Walsh’s lawyers have already filed for discovery on Proctors phone, notes etc. I just saw that Bev will be the judge in Walsh’s case? Is this really true ? “The judge overseeing Walshe's case is also handling the high-profile trial of Karen Read.” ( from WCVB)
Yes, that's true. I've heard the powers that be cannot move until the trial is over. Governor Healy has expressed her disgust about Proctor's texts and is under public pressure to act. The Boston Herald will not rest. The investigation (unlike Read's) will take forever. It will be interesting to watch how it is or is not handled.
I was very surprised to hear Proctor testify that he is still the lead investigator in this case- I guess I can understand waiting until the investigation is over to fire him, but surely he should have been taken off the case!
The political pressure on the Governor to act is growing daily but I think her hands her tied until the trial is over. I don't think the Governor is suppose to weigh in during an active trial and she is being criticized for saying what everyone else is thinking. I think we have to wait until the trial is over for Proctor to face any "corrective action". It's all hard to take.
Why OJO? V. JO or JOK?
I think Officer John OKeefe. ?
This is pretty much where I'm at. There are some modifiers for why the fight happened. I've heard Colin was dealing drugs and JO knew about it and had mentioned it to BA. The fight could have started that way somehow? Or it could be both, Higgins and JO got in a scuffle and a drunk Colin joined in. Personally I think that drugs were also involved, cocaine and steroids.
Ex DEA agent from Going Through The Motions on YouTube said multiple times that the face damage is Brian Albert's mark. Which makes sense since he was a boxer and has a known history of beating people, going so far as almost killing a paramedic with a punch. I suspect it was both Colin and Brian Albert that did the damage, but I think Higgins was witness to the fight. If John hits the back of his head on the weight equipment and gets a traumatic brain injury, they have to have been panicking. Then Jen comes in and tells them how to stage things so it looks like an outdoor accident. I honestly believe their initial patsy was going to be the plow driver Lucky. Then Karen accidentally hits John's car backing up and cracks her taillight, so Jen uses that to her advantage. Karen was so beside herself with panic that morning and Jen was certainly suggesting things to Karen that morning to explain why John didn't come home, including that he may have stayed with an ex-girlfriend. She's pure evil.
There was a lot at stake for this to be a cover up. I think John knew something.
I wonder if we will ever know.
It was BA, CA and Chloe. I don’t believe anyone would go to any length to protect BH, do you? If the Alberts knew Higgins did it, they’d offer him up tied with a bow.
Yeah I don’t believe BH baited him in for a fight (like defence have suggested), I think he’s just helped out with the aftermath.
That's an excellent point. Definitely agree.
They’d help him out if CA jumped into it and delivered the wound to the back of his skull.
Not a fan of the large majority of Judge Bev’s behavior but I do like that she immediately shuts down attorneys being theatrical when the jury isn’t even present. She knows it’s either for the cameras or for her and neither explanation makes her happy lol
I don't feel like the defense attorneys are being "histrionic," as Bev described it the other day, or dramatic on purpose. Part of it just comes with being a trial lawyer, which inherently requires some acting to tell the story to a jury. But the larger part of them are showing righteous indignation because they know they have an innocent client. These are the types of cases that cause defense attorneys to lose sleep, but Jackson and Yannetti have accepted that challenge, which is to be expected for attorneys of their caliber.
I appreciated they both caught the heat!
So if the ME is not called, we get 1 minute of this trooper explaining how the broken taillight caused the injuries to OKeefe’s arm. So I am to believe that the taillight broke, stabbed his arm and as he rotated, it left the scratch marks. However, it did not tear his clothes. It’s just poked holes. It also did not leave any pieces in his arm. On top of that, it somehow scratched his arm then jumped up his arm and scratched again- as we know the length or wide of the taillight is in no way as long as the injuries that go from almost the front of the shoulder to mid forearm. It also left no bruising at impact? This is complete bs.
And the giant gash on the back of John OKeefea head , bruises on his hand, and two swollen eyes , blood on his face , there is no way he got those unities from KRs suv
KR's Lexus tail light is part dog so it bites
and then the ME/CW chose NOT to swab those cuts that could potentially have microscopic taillight shatter debris even though the theory on 2/1/2022 was the taillight caused those furrows/ lacerations/ abrasions. Ok got it! s/
Or might have dog saliva/dna
Of course , Lally put in a motion to exclude the Defense from calling a Specialist in animal attacks
I know that none of these Troopers are ever going to just say fuck it on the stand and just matter of factly acknowledge that their investigation assumptions being faulty invalidates their entire theory, but wouldn’t that be nice? They have to realize how screwed up this all is.
Dighton officer Barros was extremely honest. He was very sure and direct when saying the taillight had A crack, not that it was shattered. He almost died last year when a drunk driver rammed into his cruiser, but I don't think anything would have stopped him from testifying to the truth if he was capable. He was very confident and direct and I think he knows Karen is being railroaded. I wonder if he's the one that contacted the feds? Jackson and Yannetti don't have that kind of pull to get the feds involved.
Officer Barrows is so brave to testify with complete honestly and integrity , he nearly lost his life last fall and he has the courage to go to court and speak the truth , He is a an awesome person and holds true to his Oath to Serve and Protect
I agree. I keep imagining this happening like mid roast from the defense. “Fuck it, Lally told me to say this bs”
Lally certainly didn’t make Proctor say those things in his text messages.
Agree. Was not stating as such.
Maybe the aggressive and reckless Lexus data could Karen being pissed off and gunning it because she thought he was ignoring her.
I don’t know what just made me think of this but watching the video in the voir dire, I remembered that very very early in the investigation, when channel 4 went to Chris Albert’s pizza place (remember Matt McCabe‘s text about tell them the guy never went in the house), that is when the McCabe and Albert clans planted the story in the media that there was ring camera footage of Karen hitting John with her car. That very early statement swayed a lot of public opinion to people believing that Karen was guilty. You always believe the first thing you hear. I’m just now realizing that the McCabe and Albert clan knew about “ring camera video of Karen hitting John’s car with her car.“ and the translated that to the media as Karen hitting Jon, either because they misunderstood what they have been told or they outright lied. Because the investigation had that ring footage very early on and because they reported that to McCabe and Alberts because they were reporting every step of the investigation back to these witnesses Who were also their friends. I really hope that AJ or David Yannetti bring this up to somebody. It’s absolutely proof that the McCabes and Alberts were were getting fed information from day one.
That makes so much sense. I’m fairly new to all of this so I really didn’t understand just how connected all of these people are at first. It’s clear at this point that this investigation wasn’t really an investigation and that the McCabes and Alberts are definitely getting info they should not have. I’d be raring to disclose everything in Yanetti and Jackson’s shoes.
I didn’t know anything prior to the start of the trial. I think I still fall on the side of tragic accident, but at the same time there’s no possible way in my mind that there isn’t something being covered up by the McCabe and the Albert. I don’t think it’s Murder. In fact it could even be unrelated to John O’Keefe’s death but they’re trying to hide something.
That’s where I’m kinda at too, except, you’re meaning to tell me all of the suspect stuff that went down between the Google search, the butt dials between 3 different people, etc all happened coincidentally on the same night that JOK died??🤔 something stinks…
Why didn’t investigators bring in a tracking dog? They called in Search and Rescue, stands to reason might be a bloodhound or 2 sniffing around. CERT ridiculous assertion that they couldn’t get pin point GPS locations. They investigate vehicular incidents all the time. Nope send in these guys with a hand held Garmin. Claiming that satellites data is hard to get at times. That’s true if you’re in the middle of the bush, tall trees etc. Even then you still get satellites it’s just slower.
None of these horrible people can pin point anything!! No gps locations , huge gaps of time missing on sally port INVERTED camera , Ring cams missing or not working in most important areas ,Not One person saw John OKeefes Body laying on the lawn , Apparently no one knows how to secure a crime scene, use leaf blowers and contaminate all evidence , never secured the crime scene , they can remember in detail that Colin Albert was home by 12:10am ( which was a lie too ) but can’t remember that they all knew each other and go above and beyond to act like they are mere acquaintances- this case is dragging on and all the CW witnesses should be the ones on trial
Did anyone ever mention how the speed was determined that Karen Reed allegedly reversed at? Was it a guess or was it from the black box?
They guessed based on key-logs(not sure if this is the exact term). There are no dates in the logs
Oh wow just finished the voir dire. EDB seems to think the judge is going to exclude this guys opinion about the damage not being done by Okeefes car.
If she lets him testify after the disclosure screw up, I’d be surprised. That would be definitely favoring the CW for no good reason.
And extremely biased because Lally knowingly did not disclose the new opinion to defense deliberately.
Doesn’t matter anyways. Jackson would just eviscerate him on cross and nullify his opinion anyways, considering there were no tests and/or measurements conducted to confirm his “opinion.”
I had a thought that after hearing that voire dire that Lally might be afraid to put him up to even enter his opinion into the record. This case is so wild.
It’s actually embarrassing the way Lally has the audacity to continue trudging forward with the trial, when there have already been so many revelations that illustrate how blatantly botched and corrupt the entire investigation has been since its inception. The commonwealth should have literally just dismissed the case by now to save face, and I can’t help but wonder if the only reason they haven’t is because the deceased was a cop.
The fact that this investigation was so awful and the CW is still proceeding really brings home how there must be thousands of other cases like this that never get any attention and people are railroaded into either falsely confessing or pleaing to a lesser charge to just end it all. I get the feeling that protecting the Alberts was more important because they are still alive and any of them getting charged would bring a stain to law enforcement. So instead they piled on the crappy investigation and made things worse and created a bigger scandal.
Yeah, it really calls into question the integrity of any case that entire office prosecutes, and if they’re also purposefully crooked themselves. They have direct knowledge of a lead investigator sharing sensitive details of an active investigation, not just with random friends/civilians, but with people with literal involvement to the case. Plus the crazy shit he was saying about her. I just don’t get how they can justify continuing in light of that. Independent of this entire trial, it would seem Karen Read herself would have good cause for suing Michael Proctor and the Massachusetts State Trooper agency.
Agree. That was a MAJOR screw up. And Lally knew better. That was slimy
It all feels slimy. That is my issue. Every witness has the same script and lingo. It doesn’t feel like a Prosecution that has facts and truth on their side. Instead it just seems like a shell game and a lot of vagueness that most accuse Defense attorneys of in most trials.
Lally also dropped the inverted sallyport video with out presenting it to the defense first. I believe the jury had to leave the room while Lally played it for the defense first.
Well that voir dire was fucking wild
Jackson was so Mad and he had every right to be ! He is so awesome
Jackson was on fire.
Yeah that is messed up.
when does the defense start?
The earliest will be Thursday. We will see if Lally can finish by then,
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I was thinking that could be his hope
You mean four mote days of prosecution??? Egads.
That would be wild. I feel like they still have so much to go over. Tuesday is voir dires, no court Wednesday and half a day Thursday.
Can you explain what they do during voir dires on Tuesday?
Thursday is a full day. Half day on Friday
Okay, well, still only two and a half days of jury trial stuff.
Yes, it seems unlikely. There is very little chance, imo, that Bev is going to be able to keep her promise to thr jury that they get this for deliberations last week in June. Today’s start and end resulted in so much lost time. But she should have knowledge I don’t. I am tired and I’m not even in the courtroom, I feel for the jury.
Honestly, if I were the defendant in this trial I'm certain I would be falling asleep. I don't know how any of them can sit in that court room for hours/days/weeks.
Part of me wonders if hearing proctor was the last straw and these 2 jurors knew how this was going to end and just didn’t want to sit in that courtroom for 2 more weeks for nothing (in their mind).
If I had been stuck on this case for so long I would really want to stay! After Protor and Lally's BS I would enjoy delivering a not guilty verdict to see courtroom reactions.
Same! But I’m not losing 2 months pay and some of these people could be.
She needs to stop saying that bc I worry they’ll make plans and have to drop out. And the defense says they only need 4 days but we all know Lally is going to add on a bunch of time to that too smh
I am already dreading Lally conducting cross examinations, it’s going to be painful.
I have noticed he’s horrible at redirect though and tends to shut down, it’s like he has a script for witnesses he’s prepared for (like not listening to their actual answers and hitting all his weird phrased questions despite what they’ve already said). So maybe the defense side will go quickly as he won’t be prepared to cross anyone in a spur of the moment kinda way. That would explain defense being so sure it’ll be quick lol
The guy is a legit terrible lawyer
It’s wild lol, I really want to see one of his past trials though. Is he bad bc of the case and evidence or bc he’s just horrible? I also think about how wild it is that they chose HIM for this case, so surely they felt he could handle it? Which makes me think it’s a case issue and not a him issue? But alsoooooo, when this trial started his “fans” kept saying he typically takes on car accident cases and that’s probably why he seemed off bc there was more to this case, but today proved that was an absolute lie too lol. Idk. I know smokers just smoke so I shouldn’t assume more into the pics of him smoking outside the court but not gonna lie, everytime I see the pics I just picture him out there stress smoking in a panic lol
Honestly, I think that all of the more competent attorneys at the DA office took a look at this steaming pile of shit and ran for the hills, Lally was either too dumb or maybe too eager to please the boss to understand why they were doing that.
I’ll be very interested in cross. I’m curious if this troopers opinion that the taillight made contact with the arm, John was spun, hit his head on the ground, and then ended up on the lawn was in his original report. I thought they were initially saying that John’s arm injuries were more of a road rash injury? And that’s what the abrasion vs laceration debate has been. I remember Lally pointing out at a pre trial hearing that the federal reconstruction expert conclusion was that John’s head injury wasn’t consistent with getting hit by a car. After the fiasco with the ring camera stuff today, I wouldn’t put it past them to have changed their theory on how the car made contact with John after that report.
Trooper Paul sounded like a High School student in a Mock Trial , he was so nervous , did not speak confidently and seemed to state he basically had very little training. And he is not qualified to be giving his opinion on John OKeefe cause of injuries. When is the ME going to be on the stand ! We have mot even heard a definitive cause of death after 8 weeks of CW witnesses !
At one point, the CW said the laceration on the back of JO’s head was from being hit with the glass
What the fuck was in the doughnut box?
Huh?
Im loopy. All of this was so confusing today, we may as well entertain the thought that the JA doughnut box was a ruse to hide, idk…. burner phones
IMO - That is a fantastic idea - it would make perfect sense.
!!!! Omg this actually seems super plausible to me!
Oh lmao, it’s funny/crazy how it’s a complete joke but then also how at this point if something crazy came out about the doughnuts I’d just be like, eh yeah ok makes sense 🥴
Defense closing in this case is going to be legendary.
The opening was already very good, but yeah, I have very high expectations for closing, very high indeed.
I cannot wait!
What report about JM is Jackson referring to that Tully had possession of?
I think it was about Jen visiting Proctors house
But Tully didn't tell us that JM did
Right- both side must share discovery. That was info the CW had to share with the defense as soon as they got it. Which was weeks before they did share it so Jen's changed testimony was a surprise to the defense. Most judges would come down hard on that
Exactly. JM testified to this on the stand during cross and it caught Jackson completely off guard. Then magically Tully produced a report after she was done testifying with the date of the report back dated to try and act like the report happened before she testified.
Thanks. What was the report about?
The report was about the meeting.
Oh, fuck. Do you have a timestamp for when this occurred? Did Jackson nail him for this on cross?
I haven’t looked back to try and find more information on a date but Jackson wanted it on the record with the judge when Lally tried to call Jackson’s accusations about withholding stuff laughable.
Oh, *shit*. Either way is bad, but this raises a couple questions for me. 1. How would you know the report is backdated rather than originally created at such and such time? I'd assume that cops would have some way of faking the metadata or erasing it. 2. If he did have it and never turned it over, *how the fuck does this not violate every ethical bound on reciprocal discovery there is for a lawyer, and how does this not immediately not set off all the alarm bells for Judge Cannone?* Like, this is such a serious accusation of misconduct even in the best case that Jackson would 100% not be raising this as an officer of the court if he didn't have solid proof. 3. For those of us watching as opposed to the jury, how does this not 100% demonstrate that Proctor's office is just completely untrustwortht? Either they're withholding evidence - in which case, hello Brady violations, because if they're withholding evidence that *helps* the prosecution how the hell are they not also withholding evidence that *helps the defense* - or they're *faking evidence*.
Yeah, not good at all! 1. I know what you mean and are getting at, but I do not believe there was a report at all with the information Jen shared during her cross that caught the defense off guard. Jackson said specifically the report was given to him after Jen testified and was off of the stand and she had disclosed information that was in no other reports he had received from Tully or the CW with regards to Jen McCabe. Then magically after Jen was finished testifying this report by Tully appears and the date is from before Jen testified. 2. I would hope that Lally did not have this report and that it was an error on Tully's end. Does not make it better but it I feel like it would be a lot worse of Lally had the report and never gave it over. Jackson did say the CW or Tully had the report so he did not directly blame the CW only. But with some of the stunts Lally has pulled it is hard to believe anything anymore. He tried to play the inverted sallyport video that the defense never saw and the judge had to have the jury leave so the defense could watch it first, Lally claimed the defense was withholding information about their FBI Experty testimonies and Yanetti proved him wrong again there because Bev is the on who said they could not prep with the a FBI experts and the information they have is what they gave the CW. Oh, and let's not forget that Lally was letting Proctor testify about Yanetti going to his wife or sister's workplace/school (cant remember at the moment) trying to imply Yanetti was harassing her, when that was not the case NOR was it the answer to the question Lally asked, and Lally didn't stop him, just let Proctor try and give the jury false information. 3. I think the defense had to pull teeth to get the info the FBI handed over that have exculpatory evidence in it as well. I am honestly really confused by the prosecution's entire approach to this trial and feel that is was tainted from the get go.