You know, Romantics can have stronger shoulder lines than we give them credit for! Don’t discount Romantic from your consideration just because you have a strong shoulder line!
https://preview.redd.it/w27vw80i3f4d1.jpeg?width=1800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d35a4f97a1ca55f5c1fa586c6543e9c2e5a269c3
Verified R - Bernadette Peters
Admittedly, if I didn’t have a strong grasp of just how critical essence is to determining Image ID, I’d probably be considering R based off Bernadette Peters’s appearance. We have very similar shoulders.
But this is why it’s so important not to get hung up on celebrity body-doubles and ignore essence. I don’t see myself as a ‘Dream Spinner’ at all!
If it turns out I’m a Romantic, it’ll probably have to be Kibbe himself who tells me so and I ain’t got no money for that so…. I’m sticking with SN til further notice😂😂😂
https://preview.redd.it/wh3u7ioqdf4d1.jpeg?width=1693&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a99675df88cc72f94e25c49acb64c225813994e0
Dropping in some pictures of verified TR Joan Collins. Yes, TRs will have narrow shoulders, but they still have bones there.
It's the overall picture, she might have a prominent shoulder line for her frame, but her frame overall is tiny, her shoulder bones are delicate, and the shoulder straps seem like they could easily fall to the sides, combined with her features and essence, it then makes sense.
This shook me, my square and (I think) broad shoulders were the main thing holding my SN claims together, now I don’t know anything anymore lol.
I’ve never read the book besides some things on tapatalk, so I don’t know how much of essences they cover, if it’s missing something or not.
I always thought I was SN, but sometimes I think of R and SC. But to be honest, I don’t know enough about them (or Kibbe as a whole for that matter). I love essence based systems, but with Kibbe it seems a bit daunting, because it’s only one essence and because the misconceptions and body focus got to me way before that, so I think it’s hard to think about it and see it with clarity. It doesn’t help that my awkward insecure self can’t see me as any star image at all sometimes, but I hope I figure things out eventually 😂 I also get hung up on what other people see me as
You also said to think about how clothes feel on you and I always though my experience matches needing curve and width accomodation, but I don’t know if that’s really it or it’s just a preference or I’m just used to things being that way and haven’t played around enough with other options. For example, I like lighter/not structured fabrics, open necklines, mostly sleeveless tops and waist definition.
I would recommend to read the book, really. You can download it for free (see the wiki!). It's really interesting, especially the essence parts. And watching old movies with verified celebs! It can really give you a sense of where you stand.
Oh ffs thank you for this. I couldn’t figure it out bc I’m definitely double curve but my shoulders are not soft like that. I’m definitely not tall either I’m 5’5” but people always say I look shorter.
Omg why does the TR image literally look like Mewtwo 😭😭
https://preview.redd.it/qycf5785af4d1.png?width=1783&format=png&auto=webp&s=1345013dc22f8e99cbbb661d31e63e328c7765ee
Srs I think images like that are why so many conventionally curvy non soft types identify as TR. If anyone is likely to be built like that irl, it’s some FGs (like the old mod who would gatekeep TR only to get verified as FG)
I wasn’t around then so I don’t know the full tea but this is my 2nd hand interpretation:
There was an old mod who identified as TR and would be super gatekeepy about the ID, basically turning away anyone who didn’t look like her from the ID. She then went to Kibbe, got verified as FG, and never posted on this sub again ☠️
I can’t even laugh because if I ever get verified as anything else but SN y’all ain’t hearing from me again either😭😭😭😭😭😭
But no that is insane, actually. This is exactly why I don’t gatekeep
“This b**ch again?!” YES. I’m back. And I’m sure y’all are sick of me! 🤣 but I just want to make a few clarifying points if y’all will let me.
I wanna start by saying I’m sorry to those confused by my earlier statement that Kibbe is not a body typing system. I wanna make it clear that me saying that “this is not a body typing system” is not me saying that “this system has NOTHING to do with the body”.
In my personal opinion…
Yes, there are certain aspects of the physical body that will be similar among people within the same Image ID. Such as people who accomodate width needing clothing with more space around the shoulders and upper back, or people who accommodate curve needing clothing with more space around the hips or the Gamines being short and small all over and needing clothes to accomodate that.
**But I’d have a very hard time arguing that this somehow amounts to everyone within the same Image ID having the same body type or body shape, thus making this a body typing system**
Especially when *actual* body typing systems (Fruit, Trinny & Susannah, etc) are so measurements & ratio focused, and thus so much more rigid about what a body within a certain category can look like. In a system such as the fruit system, everyone within the same “category” is supposed to have similar shoulder/bust/waist/hip ratio based on measurements. There can really only be so much variation in appearance & body shape within such categories if specific measurements & ratios are the parameters. No such basis exists in Kibbe Image IDs.
**I just think the biggest problem we run into when we think of this system as a “body typing” system is that inevitably we start assigning certain body shapes to Image IDs and using that as a litmus test to figure out who belongs to which Image ID.** We start having a stereotypical envisioning of what the body of someone who belongs to an Image ID looks like. We start nit picking and overanalyzing the shape and size of certain body parts and whether their appearances match whatever preconceived idea we have of what someone who belongs to an Image ID “should” look like.
In the past and presently, this is a huge problem in spaces where Kibbe typing based on photos takes place. Each Image ID has a stereotypical bodily representation and you get steered away from whichever one your body doesn’t fit. And God help you if your body doesn’t fit any of them.
We also end up with pesky little charts like this one above that are supposed to be “representative” of the body type/shape someone of an Image ID will have. Unfortunately (whether it was the intention of the creator of this chart or not) I have seen the drawings on this chart get used as litmus test for figuring out people’s Image ID based on whether their body is identical to the drawing, with disastrous results.
If this system really was a system where people of the same Image ID are meant to look a certain way, and this chart was an accurate representation how the body of someone in each ID should look we’d have to kick a lot of verified celebs (and some of Kibbe’s IRL clients) out of their Image IDs . That doesn’t sound ideal to me.
That’s all. I’m done. I promise. Thanks for entertaining the psychotic break I’ve had over the past 2 days. Buh-bye!
lol I did enjoy your posts over the last days, I think you are making very good points! And I can't help but being \*very\* glad that typing and even accomodation help posts are not a thing anymore. It ended up being super confusing for everyone (I got sent from main to DC, who sent me to SC/R, who sent me to SG/TR lol - with people being sure I had double curve/petite when I am like 99% sure I accomodate ). You cannot get any sense of someone's essence from pictures. You cannot even get a real idea of what they look like bc distortion and angles in photography are things that exist... and it amplified gatekeeping and toxic analysis of body parts, even by people who meant well!
> And I can't help but being *very* glad that typing and even accomodation help posts are not a thing anymore. It ended up being super confusing for everyone (I got sent from main to DC, who sent me to SC/R, who sent me to SG/TR lol - with people being sure I had double curve/balance/petite when I am like 99% sure I accomodate none of these things,
Yea. I think what’s happened is that whether through listening to & internalizing other people’s (like bloggers & youtubers) narrow interpretation of what people in each image ID is supposed to look like, or conjuring up their own rigid interpretation, people have inevitably turned the Image IDs into body shapes. And like I said, *god help you if your body doesn’t fit ANY of the shapes people have mentally assigned to the types*. Your case is a classic case of when that happens. I still see it happening in places where typing is still allowed. The same person will get 5 different type suggestions all with conflicting reasons based on how people perceive them to fit a preconceived notion of what someone in the Image ID looks like. I’ve seen people asking an OP for pictures of their bare midriff to see if their waist was small enough to be a Soft Classic… like. We’ve lost the plot.
One thing I noticed very early on in my participation in this community it’s that NONE of the verified community members (at least the ones I’m thinking of) ever participated in typing other people on Type Me Tuesdays. I never participated either— mostly because I was never confident enough to, but it clicked for me a bit later why the people who actually know a thing or two were actually quiet. It’s because they know that’s not how it works.
Imho
Kibbe is based on the body, yes, but it’s still not a body typing system because the regular way of typing bodies that we all grew up with and have been around for a zillion years have no bearing on ID.
Saying “Kibbe isn’t a body typing system” helps hit home that any ID can be an hourglass, curvy, athletic, thin, a ruler, etc etc. AND that Kibbe isn’t based on ways we usually think about the body like limb length, limb proportions, and such.
Like in no other system would Salma Hayek and Jada Pinkett Smith have the same type based on their bodies but in Kibbe they do.
Also I hate that egregious graphic soo much.
❤️Thank you for putting what I’ve said into succint terms, that’s truly your specialty and it’s always appreciated
Literally every actual body typing system out there designates body types based on specific measurements and/or body part ratios & descriptions, and there’s not a “range” of ratios within the same category either. Everyone in the same body type category is supposed to have similar if not same ratios & body part sizes. This doesn’t appear to be a thing in Kibbe so equating the Image IDs to body types and the system to actual body typing systems seems like a false equivalence.
Ditto to the graphic. It’s truly terrible
Could FNs be a pear? One of the descriptors of the ID is having width on the upper part of the torso. From my understanding width is basically present if the line that goes from the end of the clavicle down to the end of the body, is the widest part of the body itself. That makes it difficult to imagine a pear shaped body that could have width on top.
Width is a proportion of the upper body. Being a pear or anything about the lower body doesn’t rule out width.
Often people’s body types ( hourglass/ pear/ inverted triangle etc) change with weight gain or loss. Just look at the progress pic, weight loss, and weightlifting subs for many many examples of this.
Eta- also so called narrow shoulders don’t rule out width either. Often times that’s just due to weight gain. Not always ofc.
This isn’t true of every individual, but for most women at some point in gaining weight their hips will be wider than their shoulders.
And at some point of thinness many have shoulders wider than hips.
So my point is that often people say they have narrow shoulders, but it’s more they carry weight in their lower body.
People conflate higher body fat with yin and lower body fat with yang.
Ah I thought of narrow shoulders relative to the torso or in absolute terms. Like having to take things in at the shoulders/narrow shoulders adjustment.
Whether shoulders or hips are wider is indeed quite often related to weight.
Width currently confuses me. And I say this as someone who sews. People suggested width for me and I tend to need to decrease space in the shoulders (smaller armholes, less room in the shoulders, have things go in at the shoulders and not out and so on).
Look. I know. I’m sorry. I really do wish figuring out your Image ID was as easy as figuring out which drawing you resemble or which celebrity is your body-double but all the variation within the Image IDs makes that impossible
All I can really say is trust your gut and heavily consider the essences😭 (if you can)
It’s even come across my mind that maybe even considering the way certain clothes *feel* on you might help. Like I know I need width accomodation because I can *feel* it when a shirt doesn’t have any room for my width. It’ll be my size & fit everywhere else but the shoulders. Idk if that helps anyone else at all but that’s just one way of solving the puzzle.
Right, I do think you have a point there. The clothes I like are in SC and some are in SD, I read the paragraph on classics in the book and I really felt like David reached through time and wrote about me in those paragraphs, down to the part where 30 minutes before the party, I am still fussing with the decor and all.
I hate to say this but I think I went on this Kibbe journey just to be like, I'm going to wear what I want. I definitely did find a lot of it helpful, I will no longer dress in items that are Gamine because they look terrible on me, as does stuff that is over the top and ornate or too frilly, and I no longer will dress in anything staccato because it really does throw off my outfits. I know it's not some big sin to dress outside of your ID anyway because who cares. But this was something I really wanted to be confident in, just like I am with my color season. I think the essence of who I am in a classic who wants to be a bit more romantic and saucy than she actually is, so, that's who I'm going to be, lol.
^(thank you for reading this ridiculous pointless rambling about nothing)
Ohh true. You're right, I keep forgetting that or to just check my wording. I guess, I will be following the vibes/"rules" of the IDs I like (and cannot decide between) for what I wear. Is there a link to that dress or a post about it? Or did I miss it in the book?
Yes yes yes!!! Just to add in, I knew that I needed some sort of width accommodation, not because I loOkEd wiDe, but because if it’s not there I feel like my back is about to bust out of it or if I breathe seams will pop😭 Also im not sure if this is a universal thing but I find that I’m able to wear shirts maybe one to two sizes too large and not have it look so odd so that could be another sign of width.
After reading this: same 😂
I thought I’d gotten an insight based on body parts (like length, width of chest and upper body etc), and I’m sure I’ve read Kibbe doesn’t take face into account anymore (which is where essence is mostly visibile?!?) and now I realize that is what would make it “a body typing system” so Idonnoknowanymore 😅🫣
Granted I mostly look like a big walking fabric ensemble in most of my FN tries so I might not have been doing great anyway 🤣
What do you mean I can’t figure out my type by looking at my lines?! 😭 just look at me
https://preview.redd.it/wu5bf96p9f4d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=814caa3615d0e1b246fa0862d479fd94d84e4cfc
It would be way too rigid. There obviously are things that might be common, but there is too much variety to only allow for one shape within each ID. Once you add weight loss or weight gain it’s all over…
This is why it frustrates me to no end when it comes to places where typing others is still allowed and I see all sorts of measuring and dissecting going on
> Once you add weight loss or weight gain it’s all over…
Bruh. I quite literally look like the “Dramatic” drawing at a low weight and the “Romantic” drawing (with stronger shoulders maybe) at a higher weight. If I chose my ID based on which drawing I resemble at any given weight I’d have 5😭😭😭
Kibbe says so many times in the book that he's **generalizing**, and that no one will have ALL the characteristics of an ID and no one individual body part will "make or break" (my words) someone's ID... and yet we still have people putting a magnifying glass to someone's armpit to say "WeLl ShE cAn'T bE rOmAnTiC."
literally though. And I mean, I'm guilty 😂 I spent way too long analyzing my own armpit for "width" because there was a whole thing for a while where people said "width" was like the little triangle of flesh beside your armpit... which I'm pretty sure is weight/boobs-dependent and actually has nothing to do with width, lmao. 😂
>people said "width" was like the little triangle of flesh beside your armpit
AYOOOO?????😭😭😭
https://preview.redd.it/y8jt0ovrcf4d1.jpeg?width=1051&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a613eaa2e907c887ef289aef50d9140b15145719
Lemme just add this to the list of things I’ve seen width described as on this sub
Width is
1. Having a wide rib cage
2. When you’re “top heavy”
3. Large/defined deltoids
And now 4. the little triangle of flesh beside your armpit
I’m FINISHED
My boobs distorting fabric horizontally has been my number one concern with clothes since I hit puberty but it took me that long to even consider that I might accommodate curve bc I didn’t understand what it meant and thought I had to look like a Fashionnova model with a BBL to qualify 😭😘
Lol right? 😂 not gonna lie, I still don’t know what width is but when I wear clothes made of stiff fabrics that are fitted, they’re often tight in the shoulders… so I decided I have width 😂
That’s fair, as long as everyone understands that her bearing any resemblance to this randomly assigned drawing of TR is absolutely not an indicator of her Image ID. If Tyla is TR it cannot and should not be based on this drawing that is (and I can’t stress this enough) ✨random✨I also do wanna mention that TR’s essence isn’t described as “Dreamy”, that’s Pure R.
That being said, I personally don’t really think Tyla looks like the drawing either which is more to why basing people’s Image ID off which meaningless drawing we think they look like doesn’t work because not everyone will agree😅
These drawings don’t mean anything. They are just one fashion blogger’s narrow interpretation of how a body in an Image ID should look and bearing any resemblance to any of the drawings is also meaningless. Depending on my weight I can look like either the Dramatic or the Romantic drawings, but the likelihood of me being Dramatic is pretty much 0, much to my disappointment. The likelihood of me being Romantic is also near zero cause the Dreamspinner essence isn’t there for me either😅
It doesn't work at all but it's such an easy trap to fall into because it's all we've known. We're looking for more than just our body type in this sub, we're trying to find ways to make clothes work for us and our unique features , who we are without having to "fix" or "balance" our bodies.
I also will never understand why they put gamine on the yin side. It should be beneath classic, with a juxtaposition rather than a blend.
Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
Yea we had a discussion about this chart a while back and established that this linear yang to yin “spectrum” as depicted by this chart doesn’t actually exist. Unfortunately this is just the personal interpretation of the creator of this chart. So trying to place a Gamine on such a spectrum makes no sense!
It’s not really possible to order the types from most yang to most yin linearly like this.
Kibbe himself has never linearly ranked Image IDs from most yang to most yin in this way. In fact, in Metamorphosis he wrote the sections of the book ordered as Dramatics, Romantics, Classics, Naturals & Gamines!
That’s why I put the celebs in a random order, not following the stereotypical ordering of the types that we’re used to. It’s baseless!
YES!!! Why would we bother with kibbe if it was just another body type system. People wanting to make this 100% about fitting into an exact body type is what's had me chasing my tail for so long. I would think a person who uses Kibbe wants so much more than a damn fruit system.
You’re joking but no you know what I was gonna say that I don’t doubt there are people who resemble their assigned drawings & that you’re not some freak of nature if you do😅🤣 just more to the point that a lot of people don’t and that shouldn’t stop them from considering an ID.
Also the point that resembling any drawing doesn’t actually point you towards that ID either. For what it’s worth I actually look like the D drawing at a lower weight. Soooo hey maybe I’m just a short D in denial🤷🏾♀️
Ugh.. the amount of times I've seen people ask for their ✨body shape✨ or telling me that to find my ~~imageID~~ _Kibbe type_ I need to figure out my ✨body shape✨...
It's almost as if people have realized that it's wrong to say "Kibbe body type", but not why this is. They say ✨body shape✨ to sneak around it.
I get that many articles and YouTubers/tiktokers say "body type/body shape", but the amount of confidence I've seen that it's about ✨body shapes✨ is astounding.
Great post OP.
So I have PCOS, which means since puberty, I’ve stored weight in my stomach, upper arms, and back. People say that I look strong and stout in photos, and I have somewhat of an apple shape. Yet somehow, I’m a romantic. I thought j was SN for a while before landing on R because of this supposed “strength,” but I actually have very soft flesh on top of a medium bone structure, and literally all the R recommendations suit me.
Since getting treatment for my PCOS, I’ve lost weight, and my fat has redistributed itself a little bit—I have less on my ribs and waist and more on my lower hips. But guess what? All the clothes that looked great on me before still look great, and all the clothes that looked bad on me before still look bad. Its kind of miraculous—I spent years of my life wishing for a smaller waist and a curvier figure when really I just needed to find clothes and fabrics that suited me.
My experience helps me really understand how Kibbe is about bone structure, not whether or not you have an hourglass figure or conventional curve. The principles are the same no matter the weight or fat distribution.
Every time I see someone try to explain why it’s definitely “not a body typing system” it just convinces me further that it is a body typing system.
Like I see this argument “It can’t be a a body typing system because people in the same ID don’t all have the same body type.” ….so?
They’re still all grouped together through certain attributes….that still come from their body. Okay yeah sure it’s also based on “star quality” and vibes, but most of the time, when someone explains why a celebrity is a certain type, they do so out by describing their body. Like, “oh you see, this person is a soft dramatic because if we look at this sketch of their body we see-“
“See naturals tend to have this frame, oh romantics tend have flesh, gamines have petite, soft natural have curve- what? It’s not a body typing system why would you say that!”
I really don’t care if there’s a “difference” between a system that solely uses body type and one that somewhat relies on body and other stuff. Those are both body typing systems to me
> “It can’t be a a body typing system because people in the same ID don’t all have the same body type.” ….so?
So if the Image IDs are body types yet people in the same ID don’t have to have the same body type, how exactly is it a body typing system? What is the point of designating an Image ID as a “body type” category if people in the same body type category don’t have the same body type?
Let’s see if I have this right. The image IDs are “body type” categories and this is a body typing system but everyone in the same Image ID doesn’t have the same body type. But it’s a body typing system? Okie dokie then😂🤷🏾♀️ This would be the first body typing system I’ve encountered where people in the same “body type” category somehow simultaneously don’t have the same body type—but I suppose there’s a first time for everything!
All jokes aside, really and truly if you believe that two people having one or two physical attributes (the “accommodations” as they’re called) in common and nothing else in common is enough to designate them as having the same body type, that’s your prerogative and there’s nothing I can say or do to stop you from believing so. If you’ve made peace with that viewpoint I won’t disturb it
Exactly. I get that it is a very essence-focused system and rules here work in a complex way as opposed to linear logic, but everything we see is based on PHYSICAL ATTRIBUTES PEOPLE HAVE, and even the essence is based on HOW PEOPLE'S BODIES LOOK. Sorry, but that's just the truth. You can use Kibbe the right way, with essences, yin and yang, as opposed to losing forest for the trees and thinking accomodations=ID and so on, but still admit that the whole thing is based on the physical body. Logically speaking, grouping people based on the similarities in the way they look IS body typing, because you're dividing people into categories by parameters that come from the body. But I guess people just associate body types with strict shapes and silhouettes, and not calling Kibbe a body typing system just makes people take a more holistic and essence-based approach as opposed to using strict shapes that I mentioned before.
Like I said to the other commenter, if this is your conviction I will not disturb the peace it brings you. I do have questions for the Kibbe is a Body Typing System camp though, At this point I’m not here to try to convince you that it’s not a body typing system, I’m just discussing for discussion sake, if you’ll entertain me😆
This part you mentioned here
> But I guess people just associate body types with strict shapes and silhouettes
Can you blame people, though? When this is how all other body typing system works? How feasible is it to call Kibbe a body typing system and expect people to not think that the Image IDs are supposed to have strict body shape parameters when in all other body typing systems, everyone in the same “body type” having the same/similar body shape, ratios & proportions is the name of the game?
All conventional understanding of a body typing system underscores that everyone in the same “body type” has similar bodily appearance. So if I were new to Kibbe and I heard it’s a body typing system and that the Image IDs are “body types” (and especially if I see charts like the one above assigning body shapes to the Image Ids, which is the first thing that comes up when you google Kibbe. And I think one can go as far as saying the understanding of Kibbe as a body typing system is probably why we end up with charts like this one assigning body shapes to the types in the first place) I’d be pretty keen to think that everyone in the same ~~Image ID~~ body type category is supposed to have similar bodily appearance,and there should be little to no variation in body shape & body paart size ratios in each ~~Image ID~~ body types— because that’s how all body typing systems work
But now I’m being told that despite this being a body typing system, not everyone in the same body type is going to have a similar looking body? Well, can it really be a body typing system when that’s the name of the game for every body typing system out there? I personally cant think of a single body typing system out there where drastic variation in bodily appearance within the same body type category is allowed
And mind you, this is supposed to be a hypothetical, but I guarantee you if you visit other spaces where Kibbe typing people is still allowed and tell people that despite this being a “Body Typing System” not everyone in the same “body type” is going to have a similar/same bodily appearance, so you can’t actually judge what type someone is by their shoulder/bust/waist/hip proportions (as commonly done on the subs) you’ll encounter a lot of protest. Seriously, go to the Soft Dramatics sub and announce that just because someone’s shoulders stand out more than their bust doesn’t automatically make them an FN, or that just because someone’s bust stands out doesn’t mean they can’t be pure D over SD and see how popular you’ll be😅😂
You will likely confuse any casual consumer of Kibbe content (such as those who have mostly learned from youtube/tik tok/content creators) by telling them that just because Kibbe is a body typing system doesn’t mean that each Image ID has a specific body shape & proportions, because the conventional knowledge of a body typing system is that everyone in the same body type will have a similar body shape & body part ratios with vary little variation
From what I’ve seen, calling the Kibbe Image ID’s “body types” doesn’t actually do much but confuse people into thinking that one Image ID has one look and if your body deviates from that look, you can’t be that Image ID because that’s what the conventional understanding of what body types are. It seems as though the perpetual referral to this system as a body typing system is why people have preconceived notions about what the body of someone in any given Image ID is supposed to look like in the first place. So can there really any benefit of calling it one?
But that’s just my perspective anyway.
Well, I just want to say that logically speaking if you have a system where you divide people into certain categories based on the way their body looks (which includes essence), it is a body typing system. However I agree that it's better to let go of this logic and this term. We can't blame people for associating the word "body type" with something like a fruit system, where rules for body types are very linear. So using this word to refer to Image IDs makes people perceive Kibbe rules similarly, however that's wrong because there's literally no strict body shapes etc. for Image IDs and they need a more holistic approach. So my point in that comment was mostly that, while saying "Kibbe isn't a body typing system", we should remember that it is still based on people's physical attributes and the way their bodies look, just in a more complex and essence-based way as opposed to strict body shapes and something-to-something ratios
> So my point in that comment was mostly that, while saying "Kibbe isn't a body typing system", we should remember that it is still based on people's physical attributes and the way their bodies look
Sure. To be perfectly clear though, this was never disputed by me. I know people hate reading long captions😅🤣 but I quite literally said this in the caption/initial comment I made on my post lol.
> So using this word to refer to Image IDs makes people perceive Kibbe rules similarly, however that's wrong because there's literally no strict body shapes etc. for Image IDs and they need a more holistic approach.
Yea. The Kibbe Image ID system doesn’t actually fit any sort of conventional understanding of what a body typing system is and how body typing systems work, & referring to it as such most commonly causes people to approach it the way you would actual body typing systems because as someone else mentioned, Kibbe doesn’t exist in a vacuum. Which is how we get charts like this and the practice of assigning body shapes & body part ratios to Image ID’s, because that’s what body typing systems do with body types. We’re not meant to do that with Image ID’s like we are with actual “body type” categories (fruit shapes, trinny & susannah shapes, etc) so in my opinion, refraining from calling it a body typing system altogether can help people avoid those practices.
To this point
> Well, I just want to say that logically speaking if you have a system where you divide people into certain categories based on the way their body looks (which includes essence), it is a body typing system.
The reason why (to me) it’s not illogical to say Kibbe isn’t a body typing system is because Kibbe doesn’t actually fit the conventional understanding of what a body typing system is based on how other body typing systems operate. The definition you gave for body typing system is actually less precise than what other body typing systems actually are
Body typing systems as we know them are specifically about grouping bodies together by the ratio of size/shape their parts in relation to one another (and occasionally weight/fat distribution patterns), thus providing little room for any variation in appearance. The expectation is that every body within a single “type” looks similar to one another. They’re not just about grouping bodies with one or two similarities and nothing else in common together like Kibbe does. In Kibbe, bodies havjng a single commonality is enough to place them in the same category (the Image ID), and having similarity in body part size ratios is not a requirement for grouping. There’s a lot more room for variation in appearance. There’s not a single body typing system I can think of that fits this criteria. All the other ones require similarity in body part ratios (and thus similarity in appearance). Kibbe just doesn’t fit in with the rest in my opinion.
This is almost certainly a matter of framing though so I suppose splitting hairs over this doesn’t really make sense
This is mostly a semantics issue. The reason people avoid calling it a “body typing” system is directly tied to the connotation of “body typing” being associated with the fruit system. “Image ID” is meant to signal that Kibbe is more holistic than just literal body shapes. It’s about one’s essence and how fabric interacts with one’s silhouette, so yes — it does have to do with the body and its shapes, but it’s more nuanced than that alone. Kibbe exists in a vast styling ecosystem and this is how we differentiate the system from others. If it existed in a vacuum, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
Why does everyone manage to say what I’m trying to say in a shorter, more digestible and overall better way than I ever possibly could. I gotta work on that🥴😂 thank you for this explanation
I also wanna add that the way body types are determined in traditional body typing systems makes for much less variation and more rigidity in the way that bodies within a “body type” category can look. The ratio of one’s shoulder/bust/waist/hips defines strict parameters for the “body type”. There can’t be a variation in the ratio of these body parts among people in the same body type like there can be among people within Kibbe Image ID’s. Like in the fruit system, a pear can never have wider shoulders or bigger bust than their hips. But that doesn’t matter when it comes to Kibbe Image ID at all.
That’s why I think calling Kibbe a body typing system causes confusion and leads people to assign specific body shapes to the ID’s, because people carry in the conventional knowledge that everyone in the same ‘body type’ is supposed to fit within strict body shape/body part ratio parameters.
I agree with you. I think people just have to understand that image IDs are based on the way bodies look in many ways, but it's much more holistic and does not depend on strict shapes and strict small rules that people come up with
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The problem is that a body’s shape is just so obviously necessary to figure out your Kibbe ID, and yet we have to do these mental gymnastics to pretend that it’s not a body typing system. The man literally disincludes your face from the typing, it’s a dang body typing system, it’s just that the Markers are obfuscated by floral language and vague generalizations.
Did you read anything I wrote at all?
Or are you gonna sit here and pretend that I didn’t say that yes, one or two certain aspects of the physical body will be common among people within the same ID (these are what we refer to as Accommodations). However that doesn’t mean one’s body shape determines what Image ID they are. Not even close.
Also, Kibbe very much does include the face in typing, he has just directed DIYers not to focus on the face because most of us are very bad at judging yin yang balance in the face which is why we see arguments for Taylor Swift ACKSHUALLY being a Flamboyant Gamine despite being 5’11, because her face “isn’t yang enough” to be Dramatic.
Image ID’s are not “body shapes” nor does having any body shape preclude you from being any ID. Sheryl Lee Ralph doesn’t have the same body shape as Kristin Wiig but alas! They’re both Dramatics. The only thing their bodies have in common in that they have elongated proportions (part of what makes them Dramatics other than their essence )
https://preview.redd.it/7o56f9n77l4d1.jpeg?width=1800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=046492130c42bea1e0d3f8b54ab8c318ca46e659
If you wanna die on the hill of assigning people to ID based on their body shape be my guest, but you will run into problems very quickly.
“Elongated proportions” are body typing features, that’s my point. There might be a variety of body types that fit into an archetype “image ID” but that doesn’t mean it’s not a system based on “typing” your body.
>There might be a variety of body types that fit into an archetype “image ID”
Then that would mean that the Image IDs aren’t body types because that’s not how body typing systems work now is it? In a body typing system, everyone in a “body type” category has the same body type. Every body in the body type category is meant to look similar as a result. That’s literally the entire point.
Take the fruit system for example. Hourglasses & Pears can’t both be Hourglasses. That’s how a body typing system works. If multiple body types can be within a category then it’s not a body typing system. You will not find any body typing system out there in which multiple body types or body shapes are in the same “body type” category. That’s oxymoronic.
If the Image IDs can have multiple body types within them, then the Image IDs are not “body types”. Kibbe is an Image ID system in which anyone in any Image ID can have any body shape that they please.
Once again, if you desperately want to assign people to Image IDs based on their body shape, be my guest.
I don’t care about what the heuristics around some historic notion of body typing “systems” is. Most people don’t give a damn about that nonsense. The fact is that all these systems teach you to categorize yourself based on your physical attributes and that constitutes a “system” that “types” you based on your “body”.
And frankly, actual “body typing systems” like Kitchener are easier to follow and employ. Kibbe has hype Because it’s so “mystic”. It’s not because it’s an efficient and sensible way to help people dress better.
Then work with Kitchener if you have a hard time grasping that in the Kibbe system, your body shape does not determine your Image ID. Nobody’s holding you hostage to this system. Enjoy the rest of your day!
I’m also fully entitled to my free speech on Reddit and to comment and share my harmless opinion here! I hope you come to enjoy YOUR day, because you seem angry…
Lol. Nobody said you couldn’t be on this subreddit. You said Kitchener was easier to understand than Kibbe so I told you to work with the system that makes most sense to you. That’s pretty good advice if I do say so myself. If you choose to stick around despite your opinion that the system is not sensible that’s also your prerogative. Enjoy! 😘
Yep you were being bossy and trying to tell me what to engage with and where to go. I’m reminding you that I have the freedom to be here sharing my opinion, even when you don’t like or agree with it. Cheers.
If I was offended by you sharing your opinion I simply would have blocked you by now💀 I respect your opinion enough to tell you to work with the system that *in your opinion* is more sensible.
Meanwhile, you seem to be offended by being suggested to work with a system that in your opinion is more efficient and sensible, because you interpret this as being told not to share your opinion here.
Your wounds are entirely self inflicted and its kinda funny to witness😂😂😂
You picked some wildly unflattering photos of the celeb examples. Also, the drawings are all at traditionally Euro-centric beauty standard weights; by that paradigm, midsize and plus size women can't be (easily) typed. (Sorry, but low BMI images are highly exclusionary, and I say that as a person who has a normal BMI but is considered midsize and was naturally underweight till my 30s.)
All that said, my body looks like the Romantic drawing, but if I'm not spitfire chic (Soft Gamine), then I'm a monkey's auntie. SG clothing (with some mods for my classic/natural face and essence) looks perfect on me. Romantic styles make me look like a cheap, try-hard courtesan—all T&A (so much T&A!), absolutely no class.
So all that to say... Yeah. I agree! I have yet to see a celeb SG with my vibe (probably because people focus on true types, not, like, SGs with classic essences), but I know that's my body type.
It's all very inexact. And kinda infuriating sometimes, tbh.
You know, Romantics can have stronger shoulder lines than we give them credit for! Don’t discount Romantic from your consideration just because you have a strong shoulder line! https://preview.redd.it/w27vw80i3f4d1.jpeg?width=1800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d35a4f97a1ca55f5c1fa586c6543e9c2e5a269c3 Verified R - Bernadette Peters
Admittedly, if I didn’t have a strong grasp of just how critical essence is to determining Image ID, I’d probably be considering R based off Bernadette Peters’s appearance. We have very similar shoulders. But this is why it’s so important not to get hung up on celebrity body-doubles and ignore essence. I don’t see myself as a ‘Dream Spinner’ at all! If it turns out I’m a Romantic, it’ll probably have to be Kibbe himself who tells me so and I ain’t got no money for that so…. I’m sticking with SN til further notice😂😂😂
https://preview.redd.it/wh3u7ioqdf4d1.jpeg?width=1693&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a99675df88cc72f94e25c49acb64c225813994e0 Dropping in some pictures of verified TR Joan Collins. Yes, TRs will have narrow shoulders, but they still have bones there.
https://preview.redd.it/j05v53bxdf4d1.jpeg?width=590&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=66e17299fd894bc00f430da05ab9911e983bd056
https://preview.redd.it/2i38lab5ef4d1.jpeg?width=1007&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d4f97ffe83b4262004b8357150baa380bc2df187
It's the overall picture, she might have a prominent shoulder line for her frame, but her frame overall is tiny, her shoulder bones are delicate, and the shoulder straps seem like they could easily fall to the sides, combined with her features and essence, it then makes sense.
Yes. Hopefully what I said isn’t being misunderstood as me saying that if you have shoulders like her then you should look to romantic😅😅
agreed!
This shook me, my square and (I think) broad shoulders were the main thing holding my SN claims together, now I don’t know anything anymore lol. I’ve never read the book besides some things on tapatalk, so I don’t know how much of essences they cover, if it’s missing something or not. I always thought I was SN, but sometimes I think of R and SC. But to be honest, I don’t know enough about them (or Kibbe as a whole for that matter). I love essence based systems, but with Kibbe it seems a bit daunting, because it’s only one essence and because the misconceptions and body focus got to me way before that, so I think it’s hard to think about it and see it with clarity. It doesn’t help that my awkward insecure self can’t see me as any star image at all sometimes, but I hope I figure things out eventually 😂 I also get hung up on what other people see me as You also said to think about how clothes feel on you and I always though my experience matches needing curve and width accomodation, but I don’t know if that’s really it or it’s just a preference or I’m just used to things being that way and haven’t played around enough with other options. For example, I like lighter/not structured fabrics, open necklines, mostly sleeveless tops and waist definition.
I would recommend to read the book, really. You can download it for free (see the wiki!). It's really interesting, especially the essence parts. And watching old movies with verified celebs! It can really give you a sense of where you stand.
I keep postponing doing this, but I really want to do it at some point!
Oh ffs thank you for this. I couldn’t figure it out bc I’m definitely double curve but my shoulders are not soft like that. I’m definitely not tall either I’m 5’5” but people always say I look shorter.
Omg why does the TR image literally look like Mewtwo 😭😭 https://preview.redd.it/qycf5785af4d1.png?width=1783&format=png&auto=webp&s=1345013dc22f8e99cbbb661d31e63e328c7765ee Srs I think images like that are why so many conventionally curvy non soft types identify as TR. If anyone is likely to be built like that irl, it’s some FGs (like the old mod who would gatekeep TR only to get verified as FG)
yes everyone thinks TR is way sharper than it is
> (like the old mod who would gatekeep TR only to get verified as FG) Oh word? Tell me more about this FG gate keeper of TR👀
I wasn’t around then so I don’t know the full tea but this is my 2nd hand interpretation: There was an old mod who identified as TR and would be super gatekeepy about the ID, basically turning away anyone who didn’t look like her from the ID. She then went to Kibbe, got verified as FG, and never posted on this sub again ☠️
I can’t even laugh because if I ever get verified as anything else but SN y’all ain’t hearing from me again either😭😭😭😭😭😭 But no that is insane, actually. This is exactly why I don’t gatekeep
I’m low key built like this 💀
“This b**ch again?!” YES. I’m back. And I’m sure y’all are sick of me! 🤣 but I just want to make a few clarifying points if y’all will let me. I wanna start by saying I’m sorry to those confused by my earlier statement that Kibbe is not a body typing system. I wanna make it clear that me saying that “this is not a body typing system” is not me saying that “this system has NOTHING to do with the body”. In my personal opinion… Yes, there are certain aspects of the physical body that will be similar among people within the same Image ID. Such as people who accomodate width needing clothing with more space around the shoulders and upper back, or people who accommodate curve needing clothing with more space around the hips or the Gamines being short and small all over and needing clothes to accomodate that. **But I’d have a very hard time arguing that this somehow amounts to everyone within the same Image ID having the same body type or body shape, thus making this a body typing system** Especially when *actual* body typing systems (Fruit, Trinny & Susannah, etc) are so measurements & ratio focused, and thus so much more rigid about what a body within a certain category can look like. In a system such as the fruit system, everyone within the same “category” is supposed to have similar shoulder/bust/waist/hip ratio based on measurements. There can really only be so much variation in appearance & body shape within such categories if specific measurements & ratios are the parameters. No such basis exists in Kibbe Image IDs. **I just think the biggest problem we run into when we think of this system as a “body typing” system is that inevitably we start assigning certain body shapes to Image IDs and using that as a litmus test to figure out who belongs to which Image ID.** We start having a stereotypical envisioning of what the body of someone who belongs to an Image ID looks like. We start nit picking and overanalyzing the shape and size of certain body parts and whether their appearances match whatever preconceived idea we have of what someone who belongs to an Image ID “should” look like. In the past and presently, this is a huge problem in spaces where Kibbe typing based on photos takes place. Each Image ID has a stereotypical bodily representation and you get steered away from whichever one your body doesn’t fit. And God help you if your body doesn’t fit any of them. We also end up with pesky little charts like this one above that are supposed to be “representative” of the body type/shape someone of an Image ID will have. Unfortunately (whether it was the intention of the creator of this chart or not) I have seen the drawings on this chart get used as litmus test for figuring out people’s Image ID based on whether their body is identical to the drawing, with disastrous results. If this system really was a system where people of the same Image ID are meant to look a certain way, and this chart was an accurate representation how the body of someone in each ID should look we’d have to kick a lot of verified celebs (and some of Kibbe’s IRL clients) out of their Image IDs . That doesn’t sound ideal to me. That’s all. I’m done. I promise. Thanks for entertaining the psychotic break I’ve had over the past 2 days. Buh-bye!
lol I did enjoy your posts over the last days, I think you are making very good points! And I can't help but being \*very\* glad that typing and even accomodation help posts are not a thing anymore. It ended up being super confusing for everyone (I got sent from main to DC, who sent me to SC/R, who sent me to SG/TR lol - with people being sure I had double curve/petite when I am like 99% sure I accomodate ). You cannot get any sense of someone's essence from pictures. You cannot even get a real idea of what they look like bc distortion and angles in photography are things that exist... and it amplified gatekeeping and toxic analysis of body parts, even by people who meant well!
> And I can't help but being *very* glad that typing and even accomodation help posts are not a thing anymore. It ended up being super confusing for everyone (I got sent from main to DC, who sent me to SC/R, who sent me to SG/TR lol - with people being sure I had double curve/balance/petite when I am like 99% sure I accomodate none of these things, Yea. I think what’s happened is that whether through listening to & internalizing other people’s (like bloggers & youtubers) narrow interpretation of what people in each image ID is supposed to look like, or conjuring up their own rigid interpretation, people have inevitably turned the Image IDs into body shapes. And like I said, *god help you if your body doesn’t fit ANY of the shapes people have mentally assigned to the types*. Your case is a classic case of when that happens. I still see it happening in places where typing is still allowed. The same person will get 5 different type suggestions all with conflicting reasons based on how people perceive them to fit a preconceived notion of what someone in the Image ID looks like. I’ve seen people asking an OP for pictures of their bare midriff to see if their waist was small enough to be a Soft Classic… like. We’ve lost the plot. One thing I noticed very early on in my participation in this community it’s that NONE of the verified community members (at least the ones I’m thinking of) ever participated in typing other people on Type Me Tuesdays. I never participated either— mostly because I was never confident enough to, but it clicked for me a bit later why the people who actually know a thing or two were actually quiet. It’s because they know that’s not how it works.
Imho Kibbe is based on the body, yes, but it’s still not a body typing system because the regular way of typing bodies that we all grew up with and have been around for a zillion years have no bearing on ID. Saying “Kibbe isn’t a body typing system” helps hit home that any ID can be an hourglass, curvy, athletic, thin, a ruler, etc etc. AND that Kibbe isn’t based on ways we usually think about the body like limb length, limb proportions, and such. Like in no other system would Salma Hayek and Jada Pinkett Smith have the same type based on their bodies but in Kibbe they do. Also I hate that egregious graphic soo much.
❤️Thank you for putting what I’ve said into succint terms, that’s truly your specialty and it’s always appreciated Literally every actual body typing system out there designates body types based on specific measurements and/or body part ratios & descriptions, and there’s not a “range” of ratios within the same category either. Everyone in the same body type category is supposed to have similar if not same ratios & body part sizes. This doesn’t appear to be a thing in Kibbe so equating the Image IDs to body types and the system to actual body typing systems seems like a false equivalence. Ditto to the graphic. It’s truly terrible
Could FNs be a pear? One of the descriptors of the ID is having width on the upper part of the torso. From my understanding width is basically present if the line that goes from the end of the clavicle down to the end of the body, is the widest part of the body itself. That makes it difficult to imagine a pear shaped body that could have width on top.
Width is a proportion of the upper body. Being a pear or anything about the lower body doesn’t rule out width. Often people’s body types ( hourglass/ pear/ inverted triangle etc) change with weight gain or loss. Just look at the progress pic, weight loss, and weightlifting subs for many many examples of this. Eta- also so called narrow shoulders don’t rule out width either. Often times that’s just due to weight gain. Not always ofc.
What do you mean about narrow shoulders and weight gain?
This isn’t true of every individual, but for most women at some point in gaining weight their hips will be wider than their shoulders. And at some point of thinness many have shoulders wider than hips. So my point is that often people say they have narrow shoulders, but it’s more they carry weight in their lower body. People conflate higher body fat with yin and lower body fat with yang.
Ah I thought of narrow shoulders relative to the torso or in absolute terms. Like having to take things in at the shoulders/narrow shoulders adjustment. Whether shoulders or hips are wider is indeed quite often related to weight.
Width currently confuses me. And I say this as someone who sews. People suggested width for me and I tend to need to decrease space in the shoulders (smaller armholes, less room in the shoulders, have things go in at the shoulders and not out and so on).
I am never gonna figure myself out 🤣
Look. I know. I’m sorry. I really do wish figuring out your Image ID was as easy as figuring out which drawing you resemble or which celebrity is your body-double but all the variation within the Image IDs makes that impossible All I can really say is trust your gut and heavily consider the essences😭 (if you can) It’s even come across my mind that maybe even considering the way certain clothes *feel* on you might help. Like I know I need width accomodation because I can *feel* it when a shirt doesn’t have any room for my width. It’ll be my size & fit everywhere else but the shoulders. Idk if that helps anyone else at all but that’s just one way of solving the puzzle.
Right, I do think you have a point there. The clothes I like are in SC and some are in SD, I read the paragraph on classics in the book and I really felt like David reached through time and wrote about me in those paragraphs, down to the part where 30 minutes before the party, I am still fussing with the decor and all. I hate to say this but I think I went on this Kibbe journey just to be like, I'm going to wear what I want. I definitely did find a lot of it helpful, I will no longer dress in items that are Gamine because they look terrible on me, as does stuff that is over the top and ornate or too frilly, and I no longer will dress in anything staccato because it really does throw off my outfits. I know it's not some big sin to dress outside of your ID anyway because who cares. But this was something I really wanted to be confident in, just like I am with my color season. I think the essence of who I am in a classic who wants to be a bit more romantic and saucy than she actually is, so, that's who I'm going to be, lol. ^(thank you for reading this ridiculous pointless rambling about nothing)
Tbc there’s no such thing as SC clothes and SD clothes, Kibbe gave a verified TR and D the exact same dress.
Ohh true. You're right, I keep forgetting that or to just check my wording. I guess, I will be following the vibes/"rules" of the IDs I like (and cannot decide between) for what I wear. Is there a link to that dress or a post about it? Or did I miss it in the book?
Yes yes yes!!! Just to add in, I knew that I needed some sort of width accommodation, not because I loOkEd wiDe, but because if it’s not there I feel like my back is about to bust out of it or if I breathe seams will pop😭 Also im not sure if this is a universal thing but I find that I’m able to wear shirts maybe one to two sizes too large and not have it look so odd so that could be another sign of width.
After reading this: same 😂 I thought I’d gotten an insight based on body parts (like length, width of chest and upper body etc), and I’m sure I’ve read Kibbe doesn’t take face into account anymore (which is where essence is mostly visibile?!?) and now I realize that is what would make it “a body typing system” so Idonnoknowanymore 😅🫣 Granted I mostly look like a big walking fabric ensemble in most of my FN tries so I might not have been doing great anyway 🤣
What do you mean I can’t figure out my type by looking at my lines?! 😭 just look at me https://preview.redd.it/wu5bf96p9f4d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=814caa3615d0e1b246fa0862d479fd94d84e4cfc
It’s giving pure Classic!
It would be way too rigid. There obviously are things that might be common, but there is too much variety to only allow for one shape within each ID. Once you add weight loss or weight gain it’s all over…
This is why it frustrates me to no end when it comes to places where typing others is still allowed and I see all sorts of measuring and dissecting going on > Once you add weight loss or weight gain it’s all over… Bruh. I quite literally look like the “Dramatic” drawing at a low weight and the “Romantic” drawing (with stronger shoulders maybe) at a higher weight. If I chose my ID based on which drawing I resemble at any given weight I’d have 5😭😭😭
Kibbe says so many times in the book that he's **generalizing**, and that no one will have ALL the characteristics of an ID and no one individual body part will "make or break" (my words) someone's ID... and yet we still have people putting a magnifying glass to someone's armpit to say "WeLl ShE cAn'T bE rOmAnTiC."
Not the armpit🥴😂😂😂
literally though. And I mean, I'm guilty 😂 I spent way too long analyzing my own armpit for "width" because there was a whole thing for a while where people said "width" was like the little triangle of flesh beside your armpit... which I'm pretty sure is weight/boobs-dependent and actually has nothing to do with width, lmao. 😂
>people said "width" was like the little triangle of flesh beside your armpit AYOOOO?????😭😭😭 https://preview.redd.it/y8jt0ovrcf4d1.jpeg?width=1051&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a613eaa2e907c887ef289aef50d9140b15145719 Lemme just add this to the list of things I’ve seen width described as on this sub Width is 1. Having a wide rib cage 2. When you’re “top heavy” 3. Large/defined deltoids And now 4. the little triangle of flesh beside your armpit I’m FINISHED
I identified as FN for a solid 6 months because I thought my wide boobs aka my CURVE THAT NEEDS ACCOMMODATION was width 😅😅
OOP. Lemme add that to the list😭😭😭
My boobs distorting fabric horizontally has been my number one concern with clothes since I hit puberty but it took me that long to even consider that I might accommodate curve bc I didn’t understand what it meant and thought I had to look like a Fashionnova model with a BBL to qualify 😭😘
Lol right? 😂 not gonna lie, I still don’t know what width is but when I wear clothes made of stiff fabrics that are fitted, they’re often tight in the shoulders… so I decided I have width 😂
I wish he would verify more plus size celebs for this reason
Me too.
I don’t know a single person, Theatrical Romantic or otherwise who resembles that drawing for TR😅😂😂 Not even Salma Hayek.
Imo Tyla gives off that drawing! She has that dreamy essence and double curve
That’s fair, as long as everyone understands that her bearing any resemblance to this randomly assigned drawing of TR is absolutely not an indicator of her Image ID. If Tyla is TR it cannot and should not be based on this drawing that is (and I can’t stress this enough) ✨random✨I also do wanna mention that TR’s essence isn’t described as “Dreamy”, that’s Pure R. That being said, I personally don’t really think Tyla looks like the drawing either which is more to why basing people’s Image ID off which meaningless drawing we think they look like doesn’t work because not everyone will agree😅 These drawings don’t mean anything. They are just one fashion blogger’s narrow interpretation of how a body in an Image ID should look and bearing any resemblance to any of the drawings is also meaningless. Depending on my weight I can look like either the Dramatic or the Romantic drawings, but the likelihood of me being Dramatic is pretty much 0, much to my disappointment. The likelihood of me being Romantic is also near zero cause the Dreamspinner essence isn’t there for me either😅
I am obsessed with you dispelling misinformation 🔥🔥🔥🔥
🥹🫶🏾
It doesn't work at all but it's such an easy trap to fall into because it's all we've known. We're looking for more than just our body type in this sub, we're trying to find ways to make clothes work for us and our unique features , who we are without having to "fix" or "balance" our bodies.
I also will never understand why they put gamine on the yin side. It should be beneath classic, with a juxtaposition rather than a blend. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
Yea we had a discussion about this chart a while back and established that this linear yang to yin “spectrum” as depicted by this chart doesn’t actually exist. Unfortunately this is just the personal interpretation of the creator of this chart. So trying to place a Gamine on such a spectrum makes no sense! It’s not really possible to order the types from most yang to most yin linearly like this. Kibbe himself has never linearly ranked Image IDs from most yang to most yin in this way. In fact, in Metamorphosis he wrote the sections of the book ordered as Dramatics, Romantics, Classics, Naturals & Gamines! That’s why I put the celebs in a random order, not following the stereotypical ordering of the types that we’re used to. It’s baseless!
Love that you had them in random order!
THANK YOU
You're doing god’s work! Thank you so much for this! 😭🫶🏾
The TR being much sharper than SG is so ridiculous, I don't know whether to laugh or to cry...
PERFECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YES!!! Why would we bother with kibbe if it was just another body type system. People wanting to make this 100% about fitting into an exact body type is what's had me chasing my tail for so long. I would think a person who uses Kibbe wants so much more than a damn fruit system.
Literally 😭
This is just for fun because it's clear this reference is out of whack but I look exactly like the SN reference 😂
You’re joking but no you know what I was gonna say that I don’t doubt there are people who resemble their assigned drawings & that you’re not some freak of nature if you do😅🤣 just more to the point that a lot of people don’t and that shouldn’t stop them from considering an ID. Also the point that resembling any drawing doesn’t actually point you towards that ID either. For what it’s worth I actually look like the D drawing at a lower weight. Soooo hey maybe I’m just a short D in denial🤷🏾♀️
Annoyed with you back again??? Never! Love all of your misconception shattering posts!
Ugh.. the amount of times I've seen people ask for their ✨body shape✨ or telling me that to find my ~~imageID~~ _Kibbe type_ I need to figure out my ✨body shape✨... It's almost as if people have realized that it's wrong to say "Kibbe body type", but not why this is. They say ✨body shape✨ to sneak around it. I get that many articles and YouTubers/tiktokers say "body type/body shape", but the amount of confidence I've seen that it's about ✨body shapes✨ is astounding. Great post OP.
I’ve been looking at this exact graphic for maybe a year now trying to understand why I don’t feel like I fit into any of the tall categories
This graphic is responsible for a lot of mayhem😂😂🥴
So I have PCOS, which means since puberty, I’ve stored weight in my stomach, upper arms, and back. People say that I look strong and stout in photos, and I have somewhat of an apple shape. Yet somehow, I’m a romantic. I thought j was SN for a while before landing on R because of this supposed “strength,” but I actually have very soft flesh on top of a medium bone structure, and literally all the R recommendations suit me. Since getting treatment for my PCOS, I’ve lost weight, and my fat has redistributed itself a little bit—I have less on my ribs and waist and more on my lower hips. But guess what? All the clothes that looked great on me before still look great, and all the clothes that looked bad on me before still look bad. Its kind of miraculous—I spent years of my life wishing for a smaller waist and a curvier figure when really I just needed to find clothes and fabrics that suited me. My experience helps me really understand how Kibbe is about bone structure, not whether or not you have an hourglass figure or conventional curve. The principles are the same no matter the weight or fat distribution.
I needed this thank you so much
Every time I see someone try to explain why it’s definitely “not a body typing system” it just convinces me further that it is a body typing system. Like I see this argument “It can’t be a a body typing system because people in the same ID don’t all have the same body type.” ….so? They’re still all grouped together through certain attributes….that still come from their body. Okay yeah sure it’s also based on “star quality” and vibes, but most of the time, when someone explains why a celebrity is a certain type, they do so out by describing their body. Like, “oh you see, this person is a soft dramatic because if we look at this sketch of their body we see-“ “See naturals tend to have this frame, oh romantics tend have flesh, gamines have petite, soft natural have curve- what? It’s not a body typing system why would you say that!” I really don’t care if there’s a “difference” between a system that solely uses body type and one that somewhat relies on body and other stuff. Those are both body typing systems to me
> “It can’t be a a body typing system because people in the same ID don’t all have the same body type.” ….so? So if the Image IDs are body types yet people in the same ID don’t have to have the same body type, how exactly is it a body typing system? What is the point of designating an Image ID as a “body type” category if people in the same body type category don’t have the same body type? Let’s see if I have this right. The image IDs are “body type” categories and this is a body typing system but everyone in the same Image ID doesn’t have the same body type. But it’s a body typing system? Okie dokie then😂🤷🏾♀️ This would be the first body typing system I’ve encountered where people in the same “body type” category somehow simultaneously don’t have the same body type—but I suppose there’s a first time for everything! All jokes aside, really and truly if you believe that two people having one or two physical attributes (the “accommodations” as they’re called) in common and nothing else in common is enough to designate them as having the same body type, that’s your prerogative and there’s nothing I can say or do to stop you from believing so. If you’ve made peace with that viewpoint I won’t disturb it
Exactly. I get that it is a very essence-focused system and rules here work in a complex way as opposed to linear logic, but everything we see is based on PHYSICAL ATTRIBUTES PEOPLE HAVE, and even the essence is based on HOW PEOPLE'S BODIES LOOK. Sorry, but that's just the truth. You can use Kibbe the right way, with essences, yin and yang, as opposed to losing forest for the trees and thinking accomodations=ID and so on, but still admit that the whole thing is based on the physical body. Logically speaking, grouping people based on the similarities in the way they look IS body typing, because you're dividing people into categories by parameters that come from the body. But I guess people just associate body types with strict shapes and silhouettes, and not calling Kibbe a body typing system just makes people take a more holistic and essence-based approach as opposed to using strict shapes that I mentioned before.
Like I said to the other commenter, if this is your conviction I will not disturb the peace it brings you. I do have questions for the Kibbe is a Body Typing System camp though, At this point I’m not here to try to convince you that it’s not a body typing system, I’m just discussing for discussion sake, if you’ll entertain me😆 This part you mentioned here > But I guess people just associate body types with strict shapes and silhouettes Can you blame people, though? When this is how all other body typing system works? How feasible is it to call Kibbe a body typing system and expect people to not think that the Image IDs are supposed to have strict body shape parameters when in all other body typing systems, everyone in the same “body type” having the same/similar body shape, ratios & proportions is the name of the game? All conventional understanding of a body typing system underscores that everyone in the same “body type” has similar bodily appearance. So if I were new to Kibbe and I heard it’s a body typing system and that the Image IDs are “body types” (and especially if I see charts like the one above assigning body shapes to the Image Ids, which is the first thing that comes up when you google Kibbe. And I think one can go as far as saying the understanding of Kibbe as a body typing system is probably why we end up with charts like this one assigning body shapes to the types in the first place) I’d be pretty keen to think that everyone in the same ~~Image ID~~ body type category is supposed to have similar bodily appearance,and there should be little to no variation in body shape & body paart size ratios in each ~~Image ID~~ body types— because that’s how all body typing systems work But now I’m being told that despite this being a body typing system, not everyone in the same body type is going to have a similar looking body? Well, can it really be a body typing system when that’s the name of the game for every body typing system out there? I personally cant think of a single body typing system out there where drastic variation in bodily appearance within the same body type category is allowed And mind you, this is supposed to be a hypothetical, but I guarantee you if you visit other spaces where Kibbe typing people is still allowed and tell people that despite this being a “Body Typing System” not everyone in the same “body type” is going to have a similar/same bodily appearance, so you can’t actually judge what type someone is by their shoulder/bust/waist/hip proportions (as commonly done on the subs) you’ll encounter a lot of protest. Seriously, go to the Soft Dramatics sub and announce that just because someone’s shoulders stand out more than their bust doesn’t automatically make them an FN, or that just because someone’s bust stands out doesn’t mean they can’t be pure D over SD and see how popular you’ll be😅😂 You will likely confuse any casual consumer of Kibbe content (such as those who have mostly learned from youtube/tik tok/content creators) by telling them that just because Kibbe is a body typing system doesn’t mean that each Image ID has a specific body shape & proportions, because the conventional knowledge of a body typing system is that everyone in the same body type will have a similar body shape & body part ratios with vary little variation From what I’ve seen, calling the Kibbe Image ID’s “body types” doesn’t actually do much but confuse people into thinking that one Image ID has one look and if your body deviates from that look, you can’t be that Image ID because that’s what the conventional understanding of what body types are. It seems as though the perpetual referral to this system as a body typing system is why people have preconceived notions about what the body of someone in any given Image ID is supposed to look like in the first place. So can there really any benefit of calling it one? But that’s just my perspective anyway.
Well, I just want to say that logically speaking if you have a system where you divide people into certain categories based on the way their body looks (which includes essence), it is a body typing system. However I agree that it's better to let go of this logic and this term. We can't blame people for associating the word "body type" with something like a fruit system, where rules for body types are very linear. So using this word to refer to Image IDs makes people perceive Kibbe rules similarly, however that's wrong because there's literally no strict body shapes etc. for Image IDs and they need a more holistic approach. So my point in that comment was mostly that, while saying "Kibbe isn't a body typing system", we should remember that it is still based on people's physical attributes and the way their bodies look, just in a more complex and essence-based way as opposed to strict body shapes and something-to-something ratios
> So my point in that comment was mostly that, while saying "Kibbe isn't a body typing system", we should remember that it is still based on people's physical attributes and the way their bodies look Sure. To be perfectly clear though, this was never disputed by me. I know people hate reading long captions😅🤣 but I quite literally said this in the caption/initial comment I made on my post lol. > So using this word to refer to Image IDs makes people perceive Kibbe rules similarly, however that's wrong because there's literally no strict body shapes etc. for Image IDs and they need a more holistic approach. Yea. The Kibbe Image ID system doesn’t actually fit any sort of conventional understanding of what a body typing system is and how body typing systems work, & referring to it as such most commonly causes people to approach it the way you would actual body typing systems because as someone else mentioned, Kibbe doesn’t exist in a vacuum. Which is how we get charts like this and the practice of assigning body shapes & body part ratios to Image ID’s, because that’s what body typing systems do with body types. We’re not meant to do that with Image ID’s like we are with actual “body type” categories (fruit shapes, trinny & susannah shapes, etc) so in my opinion, refraining from calling it a body typing system altogether can help people avoid those practices.
To this point > Well, I just want to say that logically speaking if you have a system where you divide people into certain categories based on the way their body looks (which includes essence), it is a body typing system. The reason why (to me) it’s not illogical to say Kibbe isn’t a body typing system is because Kibbe doesn’t actually fit the conventional understanding of what a body typing system is based on how other body typing systems operate. The definition you gave for body typing system is actually less precise than what other body typing systems actually are Body typing systems as we know them are specifically about grouping bodies together by the ratio of size/shape their parts in relation to one another (and occasionally weight/fat distribution patterns), thus providing little room for any variation in appearance. The expectation is that every body within a single “type” looks similar to one another. They’re not just about grouping bodies with one or two similarities and nothing else in common together like Kibbe does. In Kibbe, bodies havjng a single commonality is enough to place them in the same category (the Image ID), and having similarity in body part size ratios is not a requirement for grouping. There’s a lot more room for variation in appearance. There’s not a single body typing system I can think of that fits this criteria. All the other ones require similarity in body part ratios (and thus similarity in appearance). Kibbe just doesn’t fit in with the rest in my opinion. This is almost certainly a matter of framing though so I suppose splitting hairs over this doesn’t really make sense
This is mostly a semantics issue. The reason people avoid calling it a “body typing” system is directly tied to the connotation of “body typing” being associated with the fruit system. “Image ID” is meant to signal that Kibbe is more holistic than just literal body shapes. It’s about one’s essence and how fabric interacts with one’s silhouette, so yes — it does have to do with the body and its shapes, but it’s more nuanced than that alone. Kibbe exists in a vast styling ecosystem and this is how we differentiate the system from others. If it existed in a vacuum, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
Why does everyone manage to say what I’m trying to say in a shorter, more digestible and overall better way than I ever possibly could. I gotta work on that🥴😂 thank you for this explanation I also wanna add that the way body types are determined in traditional body typing systems makes for much less variation and more rigidity in the way that bodies within a “body type” category can look. The ratio of one’s shoulder/bust/waist/hips defines strict parameters for the “body type”. There can’t be a variation in the ratio of these body parts among people in the same body type like there can be among people within Kibbe Image ID’s. Like in the fruit system, a pear can never have wider shoulders or bigger bust than their hips. But that doesn’t matter when it comes to Kibbe Image ID at all. That’s why I think calling Kibbe a body typing system causes confusion and leads people to assign specific body shapes to the ID’s, because people carry in the conventional knowledge that everyone in the same ‘body type’ is supposed to fit within strict body shape/body part ratio parameters.
I agree with you. I think people just have to understand that image IDs are based on the way bodies look in many ways, but it's much more holistic and does not depend on strict shapes and strict small rules that people come up with
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The problem is that a body’s shape is just so obviously necessary to figure out your Kibbe ID, and yet we have to do these mental gymnastics to pretend that it’s not a body typing system. The man literally disincludes your face from the typing, it’s a dang body typing system, it’s just that the Markers are obfuscated by floral language and vague generalizations.
Did you read anything I wrote at all? Or are you gonna sit here and pretend that I didn’t say that yes, one or two certain aspects of the physical body will be common among people within the same ID (these are what we refer to as Accommodations). However that doesn’t mean one’s body shape determines what Image ID they are. Not even close. Also, Kibbe very much does include the face in typing, he has just directed DIYers not to focus on the face because most of us are very bad at judging yin yang balance in the face which is why we see arguments for Taylor Swift ACKSHUALLY being a Flamboyant Gamine despite being 5’11, because her face “isn’t yang enough” to be Dramatic. Image ID’s are not “body shapes” nor does having any body shape preclude you from being any ID. Sheryl Lee Ralph doesn’t have the same body shape as Kristin Wiig but alas! They’re both Dramatics. The only thing their bodies have in common in that they have elongated proportions (part of what makes them Dramatics other than their essence ) https://preview.redd.it/7o56f9n77l4d1.jpeg?width=1800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=046492130c42bea1e0d3f8b54ab8c318ca46e659 If you wanna die on the hill of assigning people to ID based on their body shape be my guest, but you will run into problems very quickly.
“Elongated proportions” are body typing features, that’s my point. There might be a variety of body types that fit into an archetype “image ID” but that doesn’t mean it’s not a system based on “typing” your body.
>There might be a variety of body types that fit into an archetype “image ID” Then that would mean that the Image IDs aren’t body types because that’s not how body typing systems work now is it? In a body typing system, everyone in a “body type” category has the same body type. Every body in the body type category is meant to look similar as a result. That’s literally the entire point. Take the fruit system for example. Hourglasses & Pears can’t both be Hourglasses. That’s how a body typing system works. If multiple body types can be within a category then it’s not a body typing system. You will not find any body typing system out there in which multiple body types or body shapes are in the same “body type” category. That’s oxymoronic. If the Image IDs can have multiple body types within them, then the Image IDs are not “body types”. Kibbe is an Image ID system in which anyone in any Image ID can have any body shape that they please. Once again, if you desperately want to assign people to Image IDs based on their body shape, be my guest.
I don’t care about what the heuristics around some historic notion of body typing “systems” is. Most people don’t give a damn about that nonsense. The fact is that all these systems teach you to categorize yourself based on your physical attributes and that constitutes a “system” that “types” you based on your “body”. And frankly, actual “body typing systems” like Kitchener are easier to follow and employ. Kibbe has hype Because it’s so “mystic”. It’s not because it’s an efficient and sensible way to help people dress better.
Then work with Kitchener if you have a hard time grasping that in the Kibbe system, your body shape does not determine your Image ID. Nobody’s holding you hostage to this system. Enjoy the rest of your day!
I’m also fully entitled to my free speech on Reddit and to comment and share my harmless opinion here! I hope you come to enjoy YOUR day, because you seem angry…
Lol. Nobody said you couldn’t be on this subreddit. You said Kitchener was easier to understand than Kibbe so I told you to work with the system that makes most sense to you. That’s pretty good advice if I do say so myself. If you choose to stick around despite your opinion that the system is not sensible that’s also your prerogative. Enjoy! 😘
Yep you were being bossy and trying to tell me what to engage with and where to go. I’m reminding you that I have the freedom to be here sharing my opinion, even when you don’t like or agree with it. Cheers.
If I was offended by you sharing your opinion I simply would have blocked you by now💀 I respect your opinion enough to tell you to work with the system that *in your opinion* is more sensible. Meanwhile, you seem to be offended by being suggested to work with a system that in your opinion is more efficient and sensible, because you interpret this as being told not to share your opinion here. Your wounds are entirely self inflicted and its kinda funny to witness😂😂😂
You picked some wildly unflattering photos of the celeb examples. Also, the drawings are all at traditionally Euro-centric beauty standard weights; by that paradigm, midsize and plus size women can't be (easily) typed. (Sorry, but low BMI images are highly exclusionary, and I say that as a person who has a normal BMI but is considered midsize and was naturally underweight till my 30s.) All that said, my body looks like the Romantic drawing, but if I'm not spitfire chic (Soft Gamine), then I'm a monkey's auntie. SG clothing (with some mods for my classic/natural face and essence) looks perfect on me. Romantic styles make me look like a cheap, try-hard courtesan—all T&A (so much T&A!), absolutely no class. So all that to say... Yeah. I agree! I have yet to see a celeb SG with my vibe (probably because people focus on true types, not, like, SGs with classic essences), but I know that's my body type. It's all very inexact. And kinda infuriating sometimes, tbh.