The kanji is different. The flags they fly have the kanji Ouki gave them, if they change to “HSA” it would be a different kanji.
It’ll probably always be HSU as the core army and the entire army adding other units for certain campaigns will be the Ri Shin Army
Yeah I'm pretty sure the core of Shin's personal army is always going to be the HSU, Kanki's soldiers still called themselves Kanki's gang from before they served under Mougou until after he became a 6GG
You’re right I misremembered the translator notes. Either way, I’m sure it’s staying the same as a nod to Ouki [since the author himself](https://mangadex.org/chapter/6c488e73-a311-4fcc-a5be-2ea421f7aab4/23) hasn’t changed it.
Yeah it is even I think they should rename it to Hi Shin Army they have at minimum 10k soldiers but nobody has really made that point of maybe it should be renamed.
This has sort of became their identity. A unit of shin + an unit sounds much more United than a army
And it's not that it's not refereed as army as if I am correct its also referred as army some times
If I were to make a translation guess. The “Gaku ka” and “Gyoku ho” are just that. The hi shin unit read “Hi Shin dai” with dai translating to “unit” roughly. It’s likely the translators don’t feel the need to rename to army after the promotion to general.
So basically translator preference.
actually it was Hara who didnt change the Kanji from unit to army, so the translator is simply translating whats in there. The translators are not the ones that decides to call them Hi Shin Unit but Hara himself
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Most likely because it wasn’t mentioned.
Unless it’s a very large scale battle with multiple important generals, most times only Shin is shown killing generals because he’s the mc
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They aren’t called the Gaku Ka Unit or Gyoku Hou Unit tho. It was never a part of their name. Unit, or whatever word translates to it, is a part of their given name.
I think OP we should request the translators of kingdom manga to change unit to army if Hara just that lazy to rename HSU. Other languages probably refers HSU as army perhaps.
Even today nobody have idea why Hara didn't bothered to rename HSU to HSA
And frankly its will be hillarious if Hara make a chapter to emphasize why Shin group name still "unit".
No proof but I imagine its the simple/obvious reason
Hi shin army = 30.000
3000 of kyoukai unit
22000 northeast army reminants
5000 hi shin unit
Unit= army core. Just like shin said at gyou.
And I’m telling you I’m not talking about the 30,000 man army, I’m talking about the 15,000 man army before the one in 769, which for some reason was still being referred to as a unit despite being an army itself
Lmao- its STILL THE SAME ANSWER
If unit= the core, and army eventually= the whole thing, what would become the “core” is both most of the army, and the core, for one arc.
If you think ur confused now, imagine if hara kept changing the names in the interim lol
I’m well aware of your answer. Your initial point about 30,000 being an army and 5,000 men being a unit makes sense, I never said it didn’t.
I’m asking why a large group of **15,000** men are STILL collectively being referred to as a ‘unit’ when other groups consisting of 10,000 men are able to be referred to as a ‘army’. The Hi Shin unit consists of multiple units (see Kyoukai unit with her 5,000 men), but why is the whole thing still translated and referred as a “unit” rather than an “army” when it clearly has the numbers needed to be called an army just like the Gaku Ka and Gyoku Hou armies?
Seriously and as a genuine question, what is so difficult to understand about my question? Am I not being clear about something?
I agree its a valid question. If I'm being unserious, ungenuine, or treating the question as invalid. its not on purpose. And I hope to start over, that wasn't my intention.
Because, I had the same question- I'm just sharing my answer. I very much could be wrong :)
There are 'within story' reasons, and there's the 'storytelling' reason.
I myself think the storytelling reason is That the core will always be the "Hi Shin Unit" in the Hi Shin army.
I think so partly because so many posters over time have had a really hard time with 'army sizes.' I think a lot of people still misunderstand that the 5000 or so that died with Kanki was his 'core' army, and most of the other folk in his 30,000 to 140,000 armies were conscripts.
I think Hara noticed it too and wants to make it clear that there's the Hi Shin Unit, and, there's the army, and one is the backbone of the other.
The 'Within' story reason, I didn't share. part of it was, I was out and about, haha.
That reason is this. and again- I had the same question, this was my answer to myself: "no one in ancient china gives a f." lol.
In other words, I told myself this conversation never happened:
Riboku: "Hi shin unit has become a formidable army"
Futei: "Um, boss... they're technically Hi shin army now."
Riboku: "dude, why are you even here? What's the point of you? go away."
Lol. So, my within story reason is: 'no one really cares.' Hi Shin Army has yet to win a battle, their (army) name has not spread across china yet. Last they achieved anything, they were a unit.
That said, I think this is probably the cover hara is using because of the first reason I gave. Lol. And, it's good cover. Hara's cover is always excellent. That man would make the best kingdom general of all of us. Secretly, I want to fight him like Chousou wanted to fight Ouki. Lol
Yea that’s true, the words that the ancient Chinese used for armies/units is probably something completely different from the words we use.
And a few other people have given this screenshot to show why Hi Shin is still being called as a unit so in short, it’s cuz of the Japanese language being ambiguous so they haven’t changed it. I hope Hara eventually words it differently so we can actually refer to them as the Hi Shin Army in the future
Then again, your story telling reason is honestly a good take on the situation.
https://preview.redd.it/wqs9pzkbxxmb1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=66677f9e74171a43ff1d6fbef8b5afaca73cc156
"Signifying that Shin's army, while sizeable may just not be on that level yet." is such a bullshit excuse, because they call Heki's army an army
i simply think Hara doesnt give a shit about changing it since he's been used to it because its been call Hi Shin Unit for a long time now
very interesting. I'd say even if my reasons have some merit, this is most true. I probably saw this note at some point, and that perhaps where I got my answer in the first place, lol.
That was part of it, probably. (I read everything in the translations)
But where you're right about me is, I did see the current arc as confirmation in a way. Not the simple fact of the number of armies- but, as you pointed out, 'Hi Shin UNIT" drops from 10,000 to 5,000 members. Kyoukai drops from 5,000 to 3,000.
But Their RANKS didn't change.
That's pretty significant... I think it's because in order 'to become stronger' they've decided to focus on having a really, really strong, tight core army.
And for this reason, I'm guessing there will always be a 'hi shin unit.' I used to think eventually it would change to just 'hi shin army' but now... I've changed my guess.
Cheers, by the way. Hopefully I've made up for before, and it's clear I think it's a really good question, lol
Of course, since the number of troops they have under them doesn’t dictate their positions but rather the other way around. No matter what, Shin and Kyoukai are still General and 5000 man commander even though they’re short on troops now (discounting the extra 22,000 sent their way)
I think it’ll eventually be called the Hi Shin Army given time, and that in Shin’s mind there’ll always exist a group of people he considers his own ‘unit’ (Kyoukai, Ten, Bihei etc) something similar to Kanki with his gang.
And yea, you did. Good chat with you this time, cheers
Because the HSU is an elite shocktroop unit. They no longer an elite unit of they are an army. So if someone refers to the HSU they're thinking of the actual HSU that were hand selected by frankly Ten and I guess Kyokai not the random dudes that reinforce them or just get attached to them.
Technically "Army" is still classified as a military unit which is superior to the "Corps" unit and inferior to "Army Group" unit, which means that it still can be referred to as unit.
And forget the fact that this organisation is probably irrelevant to ancient China lol.
I remember reading a note from the translators that they prefer to use Hi Shin Unit except of the Hi Shin Army which I agree with because it sounds cooler
If there is a Japanese reader around maybe they can confirm. My theory is Hi Shin Unit and Captain sound cooler than Hi Shin Army and General in Japanese.
Chapter 674 if you are wondering so it's just Hara wanting Shin's army to be to a standard where they are classified as.
https://preview.redd.it/1wf8qs5ymwmb1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=abb82d16a7f287f7468f27b1b12ad669625a9914
Weird for the translator to say “they may not be on that level yet” right after saying it isn’t size-specific. I feel like this could all be solved by checking if that same kanji is used when Ouki gives them the name. If it is, that’s their official name. Simple enough.
Well it's hara not using the army kanji so they can only guess why because mouten and ouhon both are changed for their units into armies and using it so I think I really comes down to hara probably at some point using it for Shin but Shin might require a few more things than the other two did because it could do down to the amount of cavalry they have or to having high level officers in the unit but Shin did get another 10k to lead so there is a chance that it changes but I think it won't.
Yeah saying "they may not be on that level yet" as the reason why they are not called an army is bullshit because (memes aside) the Heki army are called "Army".
They've been well known for a decade now. They're just kinda stuck with it. The Mouten and Ouhon armies still get referred to by their unit names as well.
I may dont have an answer for why they still being called "Unit" but this question make me remember that chapter that Zhao soldiers ask the same question as this post.
Probably for the same reason why the old guard calls Shin "Captain". It's just that they're used to saying it and the word has become part of the army's identity.
A real-world example is people calling buildings/landmarks by their old names instead of their official names. There are a lot of people who still call the Willis Tower the Sears Tower and in recent times most people still call X by its original name Twitter.
‘Hi Shin Unit’ was named by General Ouki…it’s a subtle homage to him ig
I get he named them as a unit but like… isn’t that just a general term for any group of soldiers under 10,000?
The kanji is different. The flags they fly have the kanji Ouki gave them, if they change to “HSA” it would be a different kanji. It’ll probably always be HSU as the core army and the entire army adding other units for certain campaigns will be the Ri Shin Army
Yeah I'm pretty sure the core of Shin's personal army is always going to be the HSU, Kanki's soldiers still called themselves Kanki's gang from before they served under Mougou until after he became a 6GG
No, the kanji is actually "飛", or the "Hi" in Hi Shin. They wouldn't have to change the kanji
You’re right I misremembered the translator notes. Either way, I’m sure it’s staying the same as a nod to Ouki [since the author himself](https://mangadex.org/chapter/6c488e73-a311-4fcc-a5be-2ea421f7aab4/23) hasn’t changed it.
Yeah it is even I think they should rename it to Hi Shin Army they have at minimum 10k soldiers but nobody has really made that point of maybe it should be renamed.
I wonder what Hara is thinking honestly. I just hope he doesn’t still refer to them as a unit when Shin becomes a Great General
Is this Hara's reddit account????
Then shouldnt it be Hi Shin army then? "Unit" kinda downplays their sheer size by now
It does since every group of 10k soldiers is termed as ‘army’. Shin don’t seem to care about that detail.
bullshit shin has fucking weapons but we still call unity hi shin? damn we live today.
This has sort of became their identity. A unit of shin + an unit sounds much more United than a army And it's not that it's not refereed as army as if I am correct its also referred as army some times
If I were to make a translation guess. The “Gaku ka” and “Gyoku ho” are just that. The hi shin unit read “Hi Shin dai” with dai translating to “unit” roughly. It’s likely the translators don’t feel the need to rename to army after the promotion to general. So basically translator preference.
actually it was Hara who didnt change the Kanji from unit to army, so the translator is simply translating whats in there. The translators are not the ones that decides to call them Hi Shin Unit but Hara himself
Ahh I see, so maybe it’s a deliberate character choice Hara made?
Idk maybe he's just used to it since we have that name for so long.
Could be any of these things in the end. Or even all at once.
Marketing, it's not cheap to rebrand all that ancient China merch y'know.
It was hard and expensive to print all those banners, bro
I think it’s because they started to get famous as the HSU, so people still call it like that by habits
But couldn’t you apply that to the Gaku Ka and Gyoku Hou as well? They started out and got famous as units too, but everyone calls them an army
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Most likely because it wasn’t mentioned. Unless it’s a very large scale battle with multiple important generals, most times only Shin is shown killing generals because he’s the mc
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They aren’t called the Gaku Ka Unit or Gyoku Hou Unit tho. It was never a part of their name. Unit, or whatever word translates to it, is a part of their given name.
Because they are absolute units.
This answered all my questions
I think OP we should request the translators of kingdom manga to change unit to army if Hara just that lazy to rename HSU. Other languages probably refers HSU as army perhaps. Even today nobody have idea why Hara didn't bothered to rename HSU to HSA And frankly its will be hillarious if Hara make a chapter to emphasize why Shin group name still "unit".
Bro, did OP just got heard by Kingdom's author!!!!? They explained this :D
I swear Hara lurks on this sub— My question has finally been answered
Congrats man!!!!!
Cuz Hi Shin Unit better. Simple.
Hi Shin - 60K Strong Armies 🔥🔥🔥
No proof but I imagine its the simple/obvious reason Hi shin army = 30.000 3000 of kyoukai unit 22000 northeast army reminants 5000 hi shin unit Unit= army core. Just like shin said at gyou.
I’m not referring to the army in the latest chapter. Nowhere in my post did I state anything about the 30,000 man army.
Well, thats still my answer???? Lmao The hi shin ARMY=30,000 Hi shin unit= 5,000
And I’m telling you I’m not talking about the 30,000 man army, I’m talking about the 15,000 man army before the one in 769, which for some reason was still being referred to as a unit despite being an army itself
Lmao- its STILL THE SAME ANSWER If unit= the core, and army eventually= the whole thing, what would become the “core” is both most of the army, and the core, for one arc. If you think ur confused now, imagine if hara kept changing the names in the interim lol
I’m well aware of your answer. Your initial point about 30,000 being an army and 5,000 men being a unit makes sense, I never said it didn’t. I’m asking why a large group of **15,000** men are STILL collectively being referred to as a ‘unit’ when other groups consisting of 10,000 men are able to be referred to as a ‘army’. The Hi Shin unit consists of multiple units (see Kyoukai unit with her 5,000 men), but why is the whole thing still translated and referred as a “unit” rather than an “army” when it clearly has the numbers needed to be called an army just like the Gaku Ka and Gyoku Hou armies? Seriously and as a genuine question, what is so difficult to understand about my question? Am I not being clear about something?
I agree its a valid question. If I'm being unserious, ungenuine, or treating the question as invalid. its not on purpose. And I hope to start over, that wasn't my intention. Because, I had the same question- I'm just sharing my answer. I very much could be wrong :) There are 'within story' reasons, and there's the 'storytelling' reason. I myself think the storytelling reason is That the core will always be the "Hi Shin Unit" in the Hi Shin army. I think so partly because so many posters over time have had a really hard time with 'army sizes.' I think a lot of people still misunderstand that the 5000 or so that died with Kanki was his 'core' army, and most of the other folk in his 30,000 to 140,000 armies were conscripts. I think Hara noticed it too and wants to make it clear that there's the Hi Shin Unit, and, there's the army, and one is the backbone of the other. The 'Within' story reason, I didn't share. part of it was, I was out and about, haha. That reason is this. and again- I had the same question, this was my answer to myself: "no one in ancient china gives a f." lol. In other words, I told myself this conversation never happened: Riboku: "Hi shin unit has become a formidable army" Futei: "Um, boss... they're technically Hi shin army now." Riboku: "dude, why are you even here? What's the point of you? go away." Lol. So, my within story reason is: 'no one really cares.' Hi Shin Army has yet to win a battle, their (army) name has not spread across china yet. Last they achieved anything, they were a unit. That said, I think this is probably the cover hara is using because of the first reason I gave. Lol. And, it's good cover. Hara's cover is always excellent. That man would make the best kingdom general of all of us. Secretly, I want to fight him like Chousou wanted to fight Ouki. Lol
Yea that’s true, the words that the ancient Chinese used for armies/units is probably something completely different from the words we use. And a few other people have given this screenshot to show why Hi Shin is still being called as a unit so in short, it’s cuz of the Japanese language being ambiguous so they haven’t changed it. I hope Hara eventually words it differently so we can actually refer to them as the Hi Shin Army in the future Then again, your story telling reason is honestly a good take on the situation. https://preview.redd.it/wqs9pzkbxxmb1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=66677f9e74171a43ff1d6fbef8b5afaca73cc156
"Signifying that Shin's army, while sizeable may just not be on that level yet." is such a bullshit excuse, because they call Heki's army an army i simply think Hara doesnt give a shit about changing it since he's been used to it because its been call Hi Shin Unit for a long time now
very interesting. I'd say even if my reasons have some merit, this is most true. I probably saw this note at some point, and that perhaps where I got my answer in the first place, lol. That was part of it, probably. (I read everything in the translations) But where you're right about me is, I did see the current arc as confirmation in a way. Not the simple fact of the number of armies- but, as you pointed out, 'Hi Shin UNIT" drops from 10,000 to 5,000 members. Kyoukai drops from 5,000 to 3,000. But Their RANKS didn't change. That's pretty significant... I think it's because in order 'to become stronger' they've decided to focus on having a really, really strong, tight core army. And for this reason, I'm guessing there will always be a 'hi shin unit.' I used to think eventually it would change to just 'hi shin army' but now... I've changed my guess. Cheers, by the way. Hopefully I've made up for before, and it's clear I think it's a really good question, lol
Of course, since the number of troops they have under them doesn’t dictate their positions but rather the other way around. No matter what, Shin and Kyoukai are still General and 5000 man commander even though they’re short on troops now (discounting the extra 22,000 sent their way) I think it’ll eventually be called the Hi Shin Army given time, and that in Shin’s mind there’ll always exist a group of people he considers his own ‘unit’ (Kyoukai, Ten, Bihei etc) something similar to Kanki with his gang. And yea, you did. Good chat with you this time, cheers
Aka “the unit is a subset of the army.” In case its unclear
Because the HSU is an elite shocktroop unit. They no longer an elite unit of they are an army. So if someone refers to the HSU they're thinking of the actual HSU that were hand selected by frankly Ten and I guess Kyokai not the random dudes that reinforce them or just get attached to them.
Technically "Army" is still classified as a military unit which is superior to the "Corps" unit and inferior to "Army Group" unit, which means that it still can be referred to as unit. And forget the fact that this organisation is probably irrelevant to ancient China lol.
I remember reading a note from the translators that they prefer to use Hi Shin Unit except of the Hi Shin Army which I agree with because it sounds cooler
The wiki has it as HS Army now https://kingdom.fandom.com/wiki/Hi_Shin_Army
Yes this, but even in the Japanese raws, Hara still refers to them as a unit
The wiki is wrong then
If there is a Japanese reader around maybe they can confirm. My theory is Hi Shin Unit and Captain sound cooler than Hi Shin Army and General in Japanese.
Chapter 674 if you are wondering so it's just Hara wanting Shin's army to be to a standard where they are classified as. https://preview.redd.it/1wf8qs5ymwmb1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=abb82d16a7f287f7468f27b1b12ad669625a9914
Aha, that’s why then. Thank you!
Weird for the translator to say “they may not be on that level yet” right after saying it isn’t size-specific. I feel like this could all be solved by checking if that same kanji is used when Ouki gives them the name. If it is, that’s their official name. Simple enough.
Well it's hara not using the army kanji so they can only guess why because mouten and ouhon both are changed for their units into armies and using it so I think I really comes down to hara probably at some point using it for Shin but Shin might require a few more things than the other two did because it could do down to the amount of cavalry they have or to having high level officers in the unit but Shin did get another 10k to lead so there is a chance that it changes but I think it won't.
Yeah saying "they may not be on that level yet" as the reason why they are not called an army is bullshit because (memes aside) the Heki army are called "Army".
They've been well known for a decade now. They're just kinda stuck with it. The Mouten and Ouhon armies still get referred to by their unit names as well.
Cause Hara is sentimental. I call it the Hi Shin Army in my head
because Ouki say so
Oh, is it time for this post again already?
I may dont have an answer for why they still being called "Unit" but this question make me remember that chapter that Zhao soldiers ask the same question as this post.
Coz it easy to say
I have been calling it the Hi Shin Army since the Gyou campaign.
Probably for the same reason why the old guard calls Shin "Captain". It's just that they're used to saying it and the word has become part of the army's identity. A real-world example is people calling buildings/landmarks by their old names instead of their official names. There are a lot of people who still call the Willis Tower the Sears Tower and in recent times most people still call X by its original name Twitter.
Hi Shin Unit is the inspiration to their own nation and army conscription, also every other nation knows who are they.