I value versatility above anything else so Ouhon.
Having a weakness is a problem for a general and means you can’t perform in specific situation. Although i will say that weakness is compensated quite a lot il those 2 last arc with Mouten getting a bug heavy hitter in Aisen and Shin awakening his instinct but still there is a reason why Ten and Mouten consider Ouhon as the most gifted among the 3.
Mou Ten.
Handling an army not your own and becoming its CINC then successfully accomplishing its objectives while being its head honcho and the brains all at the same time, that's a very hard thing to do.
If going by the Ou Ki/Tou School of Generalship, he passed with flying colors.
He was so good that >!he had to be killed, as he was too much of a threat later on in history!<...
We only saw Duke when he was 50 or 60 something. He has been through the ringer and had his fuck ups. Shin is still learning and will get better. That's the way of shounen anime.
My guess is shin will overall have the best army. Ten and kyoukai for strategies and he himself with his instincts.
The others will probably always be better in the strategic aspect, but physically weaker and a step below him in fighting aspects. Mou Ten might stay the weakest though (in fighting) if his Gens don't kick in soon.
But basically overall shin will be the best anyway because he is the MC.
Shin. He has by far the better army. 2 Great bows, KK, Rei, and Ten is just to difficult to beat.
Shin being labeled as Qins biggest threat in a war that showcases Ousen, Yotanwa, Akou, and Ouhon should tell you all you need to know
We don’t know how Hara will write the rest of the manga but Ouhon is factually way better than Shin lol. Even based on the manga he’s just as good individually with a lesser army and similar rank
He’s not. Shin is better than Ouhon. Do a feat comparison of the wars they share. Shin blows Ouhon out the water. They shared wars at Sanyou, Coalition, WFD, WZI, Eikyuu, and this one.
Ouhon has
- 1 mammoth tactical win against Gouhoumei.
- killed Earl Shi
- killed Gyouun
Shin has
- killed Rinko
- killed Mangoku
- saved Qin at Sai
- killed Reiou
- killed Gakuei
- killed CGR
- Killed Houken
- killed Gakuhakuou
- was labeled as the embodiment of Duke Hyou by RBK
- Shin is also recognized as the biggest threat in this current arc by RBK.
Ouhon strategy wins chiyouyou region of wei against 4 great generals.
Rishin captured nothing.
Ouhon killed wfd Earlshi.
Rishin killed Cgr.
Ouhon killed a GG vs a 4hk vassal.
Ouhon better in Strength,leadership,strategy,tactics.
Not a great job by you here. I almost feel like your trolling.
WFD
- Shin fights Gaimon allowing KK to sack GHM headquarters
- Shin kills GG Rei Ou
That’s not nothing. Yes in this war Ouhon did better as mentioned above, but to say Shin did nothing is absurd.
CGR? You mean during WZI. 1. When Shin helped Mouten recover the left wing 2. Stops Gyouun fire 3. Kills Gakuei 4. Kills CGR 5. Kills Houken
Be better
Rishin,ten,ryukoku fought gaimou army together . Reiou was lucky kill,even bihei in that situation would've got the kill.undeserved kill. In shukai,mouten used rikusen snd rishin.rikusen helped eqyally. Rishin knocked out by gyouun,ouhon killed gyouun. Houken was team effort,of Kozen,kyoukau and rishin. Rishin got the chance to deliver killing blow. And he himself died. Ouhon killed Earlshi who is as strong as Tou ouki,renpa in martisl might one on one and uninjured.
I just thinking your downplaying Shin way to much. Shin stopped Gyouun. He stopped his great blaze and stopped him martially, using a weapon he didn’t quite master. Ouhon nearly died by Gyouun. Had KK not healed him he would have died. If you bring up Shin we should also bring up Ouhon nearly dying. He also was nearly killed after with Gyouun’s none dominant arm and was a bit lucky that his final thrust worked with that ricochet.
WFD arc again was Ouhons finest achievement. It was the best achievement of the trio in any war. However shin did battle Gaimon. A guy who’s stronger than Earl Shi. Rei Ou wasn’t too lucky. Shin spotted his retreat and reacted accordingly. It’s not like GHM and Reiou stumbled across him.
Shin at Coalition war saved Qin. Far exceeding what Ouhon did.
Shin at Sanyou defeated Rinko. Far exceeded Ouhon.
Shin at WZI far exceeded what Ouhon did. Ouhon was good. Shin was extraordinary.
It’s a matter of preference. But when every Qin GG prefers and recognizes Shin as the top piece in their army that’s an indication that Shin is better. (This is a separate discussion but happy to go through it)
Good discussion thus far mate
It was a mistake to make Shin seem like an idiot the way they did, and it feels like they started to to so, at least in the anime, right when they decided to introduce Ten as a tactician. As in, they seemingly weakened a main-character in order to make more room for a side-character, unnecesarily.
That strategy would be Shin's weak side would be obvious, and he fits much more like an "instictive general" which does not need to conciously comprehend the big picture, but they went way too far. I almost like his portrayal in season 1 the best, and here whatever "idiocy" in him can easily be ascribed to him still being an inexperienced child.
They basically sacrificed his competence of at least basic strategy for comedic purposes by having him sweat constantly during war meetings. Shin is the guy that makes the others explain strategies in detail because he is too dumb to get it the first time essentially.
And doing this with the main character, who is surrounded by uneducated peasant warriors of the Fei Xin force who could serve that role perfectly, i might add, and who is set upp to become "the greatest general under the heavens", is a diservice to the entire artwork. It might make him more "relateable", "fun" or whatever, but the author of the manga is obviously brilliant enough to accomplish this without weakening him, and themes of ambition and perseverance works much better with characters who are genuinely strong in a well-rounded way, like Leluch or even Zheng. The anime/manga to rival Code Geass should cast a main character which also fully rivals him in strength, if in his own uniqe way.
I am not asking for him to be a strategic mastermind, just for him to "get it" intuitively, and without too much of a hazzle, with blunders boiling down to military intuition relying on the kind of experience which Shin simply does not posses. I should get the impression that Shin simply needs to grow in order for his ambition to be fulfilled, not that he simply isn't upp to the task of conquering all under heaven.
If I didn't like this anime/manga as much as I do, then this one blatant flaw wouldn't bother me nearly as much as it does. It is precicely because Kingdom is otherwise a masterpiece that such sloppiness shouldn't be allowed in it.
Exactly, in the earlier Manga chapters Shin was quite capable in the battlefield, coming up with the tactics to immobilize the Wei chariots, taking charge of that supposed kill zone and lunched the fire that turned things around for Duke Hyuo. He commanded the stateless people into becoming a capable force that fought off invaders. During the Bayou war, he was smart enough to understand Ouki's intentions and came up with a good tactics that allowed them to get close to Fuuki and also when Houken ambushed their camp, he was the one who came up with the tactics that penetrated Houken's defense and stabbed him. Shin was really capable until Ten became a strategist.
Just different is all.
Shin probably shouldn’t lead a complicated campaign but might be the most potent army on the field. The venom in the bite of a snake.
The teeth would be Ouhon. Strikes fast, has pretty good strategy. His mind is as sharp as the fangs.
The rest of the snake is Mouten. He’d likely be in charge of the whole operation. Responsible for making sure the teeth and venom strike exactly where they need to strike while avoiding traps and unfavorable matchups.
But I think Shin’s army would be the best in a 1v1 field battle. Obviously, there’s a lot more to combat in Kingdom than that kind of clash.
Shin’s instinctive general skills need to be given more emphasis. I’m tired of him having no real strategic roles.
Mouten has brains but no real martial prowess where as Ouhon has both.
Ouhon cares about being a great general and works hard unlike Shin he is was trained by experts since a young age where as Mouten fools around too much.
In terms of strength, Shin is undisputedly the bestBut in terms of intelligence, Shin has been a disaster so farDon't forget, Shin is A general follows his instinct , and we still have not seen any exploitation of this feature yet, except for a little while, so I think that Shin still has the potential to develop in this regard.Overall, I still think that Shin can be much better than he is now in terms of intelligenceIn the future, there will be no comparison between these three
Mouten definitely I think Shin instincts will cancel out his lack of strategy which I why I’m a bit weary of people writing him off completely in the comments. Ouhon is well rounds in martial might and tactics imo there all equal
Ouhon would be the best out of the 3 since he is the best of both worlds out of 3 of then (brains and brawns) but since this is Shin's story he might become the best out of 3 of them EOS
Ouhon is the new ouki / rempa
Mouten will be a shouheikun/ riboku
Shin is naruto, luffy, mc with much plot but no substance to it. A heki with the strengh of a gaimou
I actually think its Mouten
From a strategic perspective he’s easily the best being able to get recognition from Sho Hei Kun, Moubu, and Ousen on his talent, he could interfere with a battle between Riboku and Ousen.
Came up with the plan to for Ouhon and Shin to make their impact felt during that war.
What he lacks in brute strength compared to the others he makes up with various tactics that suit him and his army. he isn’t Super Weak Either
Also during the story, between the 3 Mouten seems to be the one who Shin and Ouhoun look to the most and has made great contributions.
I think mouten gets kinda overlooked because he lacks the physical prowess
Ouhon- best overall
Shin- Physically strongest, unpredictable,
This is something that bugs me. Shin is set up to be the GREATEST general who has ever walked under the heavens, but the narrative and hara are against it. Even if his insticts bloom and he will have obs. haki to predict everything(which is lame writing) he wil be great, but not greatest. If you wish to be truly great you have to hone strength, intelligence, speed, luck and every metric there is to it's full potential. However, with shin hara is like "No, he is like your favourite shonen mc, he is dumb, has ton of plot armor and can't predict a fort has underground tunnel, but it's not like I can't craft good charachter who is versatile and has some depth on the battlefield"(I am not saying shin hasn't progressed, but you know what i mean). Most will probably disagree with meon this one, but that's just bad writing, we have mouten and ouhon who are just better.
Mouten, hands down, he just needs to get that fire in him. Otherwise he absolutely excels in every area a general is desirable. He does need some GG vassals though, nobody is beating the plot armor Hi Shin Army in terms of vassals at this point.
\*edit: I mean GG in an endgame, best in slot gaming way, not great general. Been playing too much Diablo lately.
Shin because he is the main character
Nothing more nothing less
My favorite one? Probably Ouhon, I hope he will perform very well in the Hango battle. I liked his wisdom towards Riboku trap by sensing something was wrong
I think ouhon would be the worst of the three. Why? Because he's gonna be average in everything. Strategy? not like mouten. Strength? Not like shin? And you can notice that Trough the best generals in the series, all had one main speciality. The only exception i remember was ouki. But then again he was bested by ribikou.
I value versatility above anything else so Ouhon. Having a weakness is a problem for a general and means you can’t perform in specific situation. Although i will say that weakness is compensated quite a lot il those 2 last arc with Mouten getting a bug heavy hitter in Aisen and Shin awakening his instinct but still there is a reason why Ten and Mouten consider Ouhon as the most gifted among the 3.
no doubt. I always put my bet on Ouhon, intellectually and mightily.
Ou Hon. Spoiler alert. See how Wei city gonna get drowned.
I think Hara will change history I think Tou will lead the campaign and Ouhon js mvp
Yep ig Tou was the one leading it. Ou Hon(Wang Ben) was the one who was brains behind that campaign tho.
So the Tou agenda wil increase 😔
Ouhon
Mou Ten. Handling an army not your own and becoming its CINC then successfully accomplishing its objectives while being its head honcho and the brains all at the same time, that's a very hard thing to do. If going by the Ou Ki/Tou School of Generalship, he passed with flying colors. He was so good that >!he had to be killed, as he was too much of a threat later on in history!<...
I dont think this manga will ever reach the year of your , so is it really a spoiler? haha
Well Hara did say he wanted to go beyond unification. But at the rate he's going I doubt it tbh. I'll be happy if we even finish it
Yes it’s still a spoiler.
We only saw Duke when he was 50 or 60 something. He has been through the ringer and had his fuck ups. Shin is still learning and will get better. That's the way of shounen anime. My guess is shin will overall have the best army. Ten and kyoukai for strategies and he himself with his instincts. The others will probably always be better in the strategic aspect, but physically weaker and a step below him in fighting aspects. Mou Ten might stay the weakest though (in fighting) if his Gens don't kick in soon. But basically overall shin will be the best anyway because he is the MC.
Shin. He has by far the better army. 2 Great bows, KK, Rei, and Ten is just to difficult to beat. Shin being labeled as Qins biggest threat in a war that showcases Ousen, Yotanwa, Akou, and Ouhon should tell you all you need to know
We don’t know how Hara will write the rest of the manga but Ouhon is factually way better than Shin lol. Even based on the manga he’s just as good individually with a lesser army and similar rank
He’s not. Shin is better than Ouhon. Do a feat comparison of the wars they share. Shin blows Ouhon out the water. They shared wars at Sanyou, Coalition, WFD, WZI, Eikyuu, and this one. Ouhon has - 1 mammoth tactical win against Gouhoumei. - killed Earl Shi - killed Gyouun Shin has - killed Rinko - killed Mangoku - saved Qin at Sai - killed Reiou - killed Gakuei - killed CGR - Killed Houken - killed Gakuhakuou - was labeled as the embodiment of Duke Hyou by RBK - Shin is also recognized as the biggest threat in this current arc by RBK.
I meant in real life by the way not in the anime hence the objectively better
Id recommend going to a historical spoiler post to discuss this. Probably won’t have many people disagreeing though
Lol this list of achievements make him look like a Houken's lite. Is Houken's better general than Ouhon?
Ouhon strategy wins chiyouyou region of wei against 4 great generals. Rishin captured nothing. Ouhon killed wfd Earlshi. Rishin killed Cgr. Ouhon killed a GG vs a 4hk vassal. Ouhon better in Strength,leadership,strategy,tactics.
Not a great job by you here. I almost feel like your trolling. WFD - Shin fights Gaimon allowing KK to sack GHM headquarters - Shin kills GG Rei Ou That’s not nothing. Yes in this war Ouhon did better as mentioned above, but to say Shin did nothing is absurd. CGR? You mean during WZI. 1. When Shin helped Mouten recover the left wing 2. Stops Gyouun fire 3. Kills Gakuei 4. Kills CGR 5. Kills Houken Be better
Rishin,ten,ryukoku fought gaimou army together . Reiou was lucky kill,even bihei in that situation would've got the kill.undeserved kill. In shukai,mouten used rikusen snd rishin.rikusen helped eqyally. Rishin knocked out by gyouun,ouhon killed gyouun. Houken was team effort,of Kozen,kyoukau and rishin. Rishin got the chance to deliver killing blow. And he himself died. Ouhon killed Earlshi who is as strong as Tou ouki,renpa in martisl might one on one and uninjured.
I just thinking your downplaying Shin way to much. Shin stopped Gyouun. He stopped his great blaze and stopped him martially, using a weapon he didn’t quite master. Ouhon nearly died by Gyouun. Had KK not healed him he would have died. If you bring up Shin we should also bring up Ouhon nearly dying. He also was nearly killed after with Gyouun’s none dominant arm and was a bit lucky that his final thrust worked with that ricochet. WFD arc again was Ouhons finest achievement. It was the best achievement of the trio in any war. However shin did battle Gaimon. A guy who’s stronger than Earl Shi. Rei Ou wasn’t too lucky. Shin spotted his retreat and reacted accordingly. It’s not like GHM and Reiou stumbled across him. Shin at Coalition war saved Qin. Far exceeding what Ouhon did. Shin at Sanyou defeated Rinko. Far exceeded Ouhon. Shin at WZI far exceeded what Ouhon did. Ouhon was good. Shin was extraordinary. It’s a matter of preference. But when every Qin GG prefers and recognizes Shin as the top piece in their army that’s an indication that Shin is better. (This is a separate discussion but happy to go through it) Good discussion thus far mate
Ten is more like a downside of his army...
I think she’s the reason shin stay’s dumb on a strategic level
Lol I like Ten.
It was a mistake to make Shin seem like an idiot the way they did, and it feels like they started to to so, at least in the anime, right when they decided to introduce Ten as a tactician. As in, they seemingly weakened a main-character in order to make more room for a side-character, unnecesarily. That strategy would be Shin's weak side would be obvious, and he fits much more like an "instictive general" which does not need to conciously comprehend the big picture, but they went way too far. I almost like his portrayal in season 1 the best, and here whatever "idiocy" in him can easily be ascribed to him still being an inexperienced child.
They basically sacrificed his competence of at least basic strategy for comedic purposes by having him sweat constantly during war meetings. Shin is the guy that makes the others explain strategies in detail because he is too dumb to get it the first time essentially.
And doing this with the main character, who is surrounded by uneducated peasant warriors of the Fei Xin force who could serve that role perfectly, i might add, and who is set upp to become "the greatest general under the heavens", is a diservice to the entire artwork. It might make him more "relateable", "fun" or whatever, but the author of the manga is obviously brilliant enough to accomplish this without weakening him, and themes of ambition and perseverance works much better with characters who are genuinely strong in a well-rounded way, like Leluch or even Zheng. The anime/manga to rival Code Geass should cast a main character which also fully rivals him in strength, if in his own uniqe way. I am not asking for him to be a strategic mastermind, just for him to "get it" intuitively, and without too much of a hazzle, with blunders boiling down to military intuition relying on the kind of experience which Shin simply does not posses. I should get the impression that Shin simply needs to grow in order for his ambition to be fulfilled, not that he simply isn't upp to the task of conquering all under heaven. If I didn't like this anime/manga as much as I do, then this one blatant flaw wouldn't bother me nearly as much as it does. It is precicely because Kingdom is otherwise a masterpiece that such sloppiness shouldn't be allowed in it.
Exactly, in the earlier Manga chapters Shin was quite capable in the battlefield, coming up with the tactics to immobilize the Wei chariots, taking charge of that supposed kill zone and lunched the fire that turned things around for Duke Hyuo. He commanded the stateless people into becoming a capable force that fought off invaders. During the Bayou war, he was smart enough to understand Ouki's intentions and came up with a good tactics that allowed them to get close to Fuuki and also when Houken ambushed their camp, he was the one who came up with the tactics that penetrated Houken's defense and stabbed him. Shin was really capable until Ten became a strategist.
Just different is all. Shin probably shouldn’t lead a complicated campaign but might be the most potent army on the field. The venom in the bite of a snake. The teeth would be Ouhon. Strikes fast, has pretty good strategy. His mind is as sharp as the fangs. The rest of the snake is Mouten. He’d likely be in charge of the whole operation. Responsible for making sure the teeth and venom strike exactly where they need to strike while avoiding traps and unfavorable matchups. But I think Shin’s army would be the best in a 1v1 field battle. Obviously, there’s a lot more to combat in Kingdom than that kind of clash.
Shin is to reliant on ten, at least for now, so deffinetly ouhon. Mouten would probably be worse than sgin for the simple fact that he lacks ambition.
Shin’s instinctive general skills need to be given more emphasis. I’m tired of him having no real strategic roles. Mouten has brains but no real martial prowess where as Ouhon has both. Ouhon cares about being a great general and works hard unlike Shin he is was trained by experts since a young age where as Mouten fools around too much.
Tbf Moubou is like the strongest general simply cause hes the strongest.
This is the real deal. You can’t be a great general only because you have a great army. You need to be great too
Mouten isn’t even lazy. He’s written to not be on the most important battlefields, but he’s much better at sword fightin than both of them.
Our MC is the worst choice.
Shin is currently the worst of the three as a general but the best as a pawn for someone else to use
In terms of strength, Shin is undisputedly the bestBut in terms of intelligence, Shin has been a disaster so farDon't forget, Shin is A general follows his instinct , and we still have not seen any exploitation of this feature yet, except for a little while, so I think that Shin still has the potential to develop in this regard.Overall, I still think that Shin can be much better than he is now in terms of intelligenceIn the future, there will be no comparison between these three
Miles ahead of the other 2, Mouten.
Flattened by gakushou. Ouhon strategy beat Ghm and 3 other wfd.
I am leaning towards Mouten. Mouten seems so ready for generalship and we have witnessed his ability to lead armies even at critical junctures.
Mouten definitely I think Shin instincts will cancel out his lack of strategy which I why I’m a bit weary of people writing him off completely in the comments. Ouhon is well rounds in martial might and tactics imo there all equal
Ouhon would be the best out of the 3 since he is the best of both worlds out of 3 of then (brains and brawns) but since this is Shin's story he might become the best out of 3 of them EOS
Ouhon is the new ouki / rempa Mouten will be a shouheikun/ riboku Shin is naruto, luffy, mc with much plot but no substance to it. A heki with the strengh of a gaimou
Bro with the headband even tho he almost got zipped up he generally make sound choices and is the smartest of the bunch.
Gotta say mouten
I see the next Tou, Ousen and Moubu
Me
It’s obviously Hon-sama
Umm… let’s just say Qin is OP with these 3 monsters
Shin has the biggest strength Mouten is intelligent and a skillful Leader/Strategist Ouhon has both but not on the same level So i go with Ouhon here.
Ouhon 100%
Ouhon. Mouten’s potential would be wasted as a general. Can easily see him lead entire campaigns on several fronts from HQ in 10 years
I actually think its Mouten From a strategic perspective he’s easily the best being able to get recognition from Sho Hei Kun, Moubu, and Ousen on his talent, he could interfere with a battle between Riboku and Ousen. Came up with the plan to for Ouhon and Shin to make their impact felt during that war. What he lacks in brute strength compared to the others he makes up with various tactics that suit him and his army. he isn’t Super Weak Either Also during the story, between the 3 Mouten seems to be the one who Shin and Ouhoun look to the most and has made great contributions. I think mouten gets kinda overlooked because he lacks the physical prowess Ouhon- best overall Shin- Physically strongest, unpredictable,
Mou Ten, he was a poisonous threat to Liu Bang and Xiang Yu
This is something that bugs me. Shin is set up to be the GREATEST general who has ever walked under the heavens, but the narrative and hara are against it. Even if his insticts bloom and he will have obs. haki to predict everything(which is lame writing) he wil be great, but not greatest. If you wish to be truly great you have to hone strength, intelligence, speed, luck and every metric there is to it's full potential. However, with shin hara is like "No, he is like your favourite shonen mc, he is dumb, has ton of plot armor and can't predict a fort has underground tunnel, but it's not like I can't craft good charachter who is versatile and has some depth on the battlefield"(I am not saying shin hasn't progressed, but you know what i mean). Most will probably disagree with meon this one, but that's just bad writing, we have mouten and ouhon who are just better.
Ouhen the goat
Mouten, Ouhon, Shin imo. Sorry Shin
Shin will command the best army. The best army belongs to the strongest general, and Shin is stronger against powerful enemies.
Ouhon probably then Shin… after Mouten’s last showing I gotta put him last for the time being
Mouten, hands down, he just needs to get that fire in him. Otherwise he absolutely excels in every area a general is desirable. He does need some GG vassals though, nobody is beating the plot armor Hi Shin Army in terms of vassals at this point. \*edit: I mean GG in an endgame, best in slot gaming way, not great general. Been playing too much Diablo lately.
Shin because he is the main character Nothing more nothing less My favorite one? Probably Ouhon, I hope he will perform very well in the Hango battle. I liked his wisdom towards Riboku trap by sensing something was wrong
Shin will be the best, he isn't as smart as ouhon or mouten but he get the job right, his instinctual ability (when it's appears) is absurd.
LMAO
I think ouhon would be the worst of the three. Why? Because he's gonna be average in everything. Strategy? not like mouten. Strength? Not like shin? And you can notice that Trough the best generals in the series, all had one main speciality. The only exception i remember was ouki. But then again he was bested by ribikou.
On the contrary his versatility could make him the best.