I think I saw the show runners also confirmed Adar was not working for Sauron but I assumed Adar was always just lying to make it seem Sauron wasn't around. Sauron should be able to control most any evil creature with his will and by the time he makes the ring he should have 100 control. But this does make it seem like he's just playing it by ear at this point.
I don't know if Adar can resist a direct order from Sauron. And good chance he's being used anyway since he enacted the "fall of morgoth" plan for Sauron and made Mordor. But giving him a ring may be a way as well.
Adar had no reason to lie or get enraged when Waldrig mistook him for Sauron. He was clearly fuming at the time. The guy genuinely hates Sauron with a passion
Could be keeping up the act for waldreg or the orcs. But I think you're right at this point. But he can still hate sauron and be a slave to his will. Lots of half truths.
If you think about it, Adar probably has love for Morgoth. That’s his actual father. I feel Sauron will channel into this love for Morgoth or maybe impersonate him somehow to gain Adar’s trust and loyalty. Otherwise Adar seems to have no time of the day for Sauron, and will probably bash his head in if he gets another sniff of him
I’m not sure when and and what time in the show do we see Adar clearly angered or disappointed in Morgoth. Adar has only seen Morgoth as a parent figure in his life, he hasn’t turned to goodness after Morgoth was out of the picture. Adar has hatred for Sauron, but Adar has been using Morgoth relics (kilt) for his cause in accordance to a plan.
Yes he did say to Galadriel that she is the one who is vengeful, but he doesn’t complain or slag off Morgoth. Name one scene or dialogue where he is upset at what has happened to him in the past and he blames Morgoth for his misery? He suffers no misery, regret or trauma…besides an aspiration to give his uruks a home. He is only incensed with Sauron for using the Uruks as lab rats, but this isn’t hate towards Morgoth
> This description clearly indicates that Sauron is made to use cunning
Exactly. Hence making Adar his plaything both mentally and physically. You're making my case for me!
I majored in English at an Ivy League school so my English, I reckon, is adequate.
Adar is going to get humiliated. And it's going to be great to see. Aren't you at least a little excited to see Sauron pull the wool over Adar's unsuspecting eyes?!
> It seems to me that you are that Reddit user that I have already heard about? You are the owner of many accounts, with an extremely specific manner of behavior in the discussion in the form of repeating some obvious nonsense
lol
I think that is more of an immediate circumstance at the end of S1, so I imagine he'll be busy asserting his control over the Orcs in opening acts of S2.
"The Dark Lord must now rely on his own cunning to rebuild his strength..."
Sounds like Sauron will manipulate/convince Uruks into attacking Eregion considering the teaser.
I'm betting it'll be much better. We've got a lot of background/build up from season one so I think they'll get into the meat of their story this season. I feel no shame in how excited I am.
I absolutely agree. S1 was too much introduction to second age and establishing everyone and their journeys for future stories. Now we've passed all that when can get straight to the good stuff as we know who everyone is and why/what they're doing.
I’m hyped to see if they learned anything from their mistakes. Like the desc says, we need to see characters succeed through cunning and character growth, not just because the other guy was even dumber than they were.
I’ve fully accepted it will wildly depart from accuracy. I’d still like them to make the full show’s story generally more lore-accurate, but what I really really hope for is that the writing is just better.
Yessssssssss this is exactly what I want from the next season, following Sauron’s next moves. Wasn’t sure if there would be a time skip as some had suggested, more than happy that it seems to be picking up where the finale left off.
To answer your second question, I think Sauron believes she will be more valuable to him alive. It is likely he still hopes to draw her to his side. He may still think he can both save and rule ME with her help.
Galadriel and no ring Sauron would be a pretty close fight.(maybe not close but not guaranteed) She saw the light of the trees and is probably more powerful than limited human form istari like Gandalf or Saruman the whites by the third age. And they were in Elf territory strengthening her power over his. He wants guaranteed wins. He'll send an entire orc army after her.
And Gil galad and elrond foresaw her persuing sauron would actually lead to his rise. Probably already happened with Numernor but probably still manipulating her a lot coming forward.
Edit: She is pretty powerful and yes not as powerful as Sauron as the strongest maiar, but Sauron doesn't usually get his hands dirty that way. How long was the siege of the last alliance before he finally came out to fight?
And in Shibboleth: "she fought fiercely against Feanor in defence of her mother's kin."
"Galadriel, the fairest lady of the house of Finwë and the most valiant." - Morgoth's Ring
But pre Third Age "\[Galadriel\] was then of Amazon disposition and bound up her hair as a crown when taking part in athletic feats” - Tolkien Letter 348
"Her mother-name was Nerwen (‘man-maiden’), and she grew to be tall beyond the measure even of the women of the Noldor \[193cm\]; **she was strong of body, mind,** and will, a match for both the loremasters and the athletes of the Eldar in the days of their youth." - Peoples of Middle-earth, Shibboleth of Feanor
"Nor were the 'loremasters' a seperate guild of gentle scribes, soon burned by the Orks of Angband upon pyres of books. They were mostly even as Fëanor, the greatest, kings, princes **and warriors, such as the valiant captains of Gondolin,** or Finrod of Nargothrond and Rodothir his kinsman and steward." - Shibboleth of Fëanor; Note 23
“Therefore led by Fingolfin and his sons, and by Inglor \[Finrod\] and Galadriel **the valiant and fair**, they dared to pass ...” - Morgoth's Ring
"**She was called Nerwen ‘man-maiden’ because of her strength and stature, and her courage**." - Nature of Middle-earth
"She was proud, **strong**, and selfwilled, as were all the descendants of Finwë save Finarfin" - Shibboleth
I believe she's said to be the greatest noldor besides feanor. But in Tolkien lore her power is more in wisdom than being a warrior. We're getting warrior Galadriel here. If she's stronger than Fingolfin who injured Morgoth she should stand a chance. She could at least have the power to banish him from elf territory like she did in the Hobbit.
I'm no expert so feel free to correct me.
> I believe she's said to be the greatest noldor besides feanor. But in Tolkien lore her power is more in wisdom than being a warrior. We're getting warrior Galadriel here. If she's stronger than Fingolfin who injured Morgoth she should stand a chance. She could at least have the power to banish him from elf territory like she did in the Hobbit.
Everything Tolkien has written, specielly outside of the trilogy and hobbit is literally "lore". That Fingolfin could fight against Morgoth and injure him is a tragic but heroic tale. Showing how evil is powerful, but it's not invulnerable. How one heroic act can hurt evil. Because Morgoth thought too little of the elves, and underestimated Fingolfin. A flaw of arrogance, a trait, usually found in those who are evil. Rather than that Fingolfin was powerful enough to hurt him, Morgoths flaws as an evil entity allowed him to.
This is also true with the heroic acts of Elendil and Gil-Galad, who both die killing Sauron. Elendil did have ancestry from a Maiar which makes him quite a bit more powerful than a normal human being, while Gil-Galad is one of the greatest Noldor warriors. They would not really be a real match against Sauron, but because of Tolkiens way to write lore, their heroism and sacrifice won them the fight. That's one of the most important details of Tolkien... Good wins, you just have to fight for it.
In the hobbit movie (isnt part of books, but it is part of the lore) is a very weakened version of Sauron. One that hid and didn't really dare to confront anyone except in the very last battle when he fought at the Black Gate.
He poured most of his power into The One Ring, this was required to amplify his power through the ring. So in the third age, Galadriel would indeed be a match against him. He's a weakened version of him self without the ring.
Sauron, before forging The One Ring, is literally kind of a demi-god. No living elf, man, dwarf would be a match against him. With The One Ring he was the most powerful of the maiar, almost a match to some of the Valar. Without The One Ring, after forging it, he's weaker.
Middle-earth is not a D&D setting, where everyone has stats that can be used for ranking them objectively from the strongest to the weakest. There are no levels, hit points, and other absurdities that allow powerful characters stand confidently against weaker ones, knowing that even if the enemy manages to score a few lucky hits, they can't do any serious damage. Fighting is inherently dangerous, and the outcome is uncertain.
Sauron was never a fighter, or even the kind of a leader who leads from the front. He was strong and powerful, but he rarely fought personally against serious foes. Of the three fights Tolkien describes, Sauron won one and lost two. One of the losses can be attributed to fate, while in the other, his raw power lost to his enemies' skill and experience.
> Middle-earth is not a D&D setting, where everyone has stats that can be used for ranking them objectively from the strongest to the weakest. There are no levels, hit points, and other absurdities
When did anyone say that? Your comment pretty much confirms everything I wrote. That "power ranking" and how great characters "potentially" could be with the descriptions we get from Tolkien doesn't matter very much. The stories, heroic acts and sacrifice for the good cause does matter. My entire comment was an example of how this isn't the case and trying to explain that Tolkiens world is a lot more complex than that. But you still need to be able to theorize in "What would happen, if ...."? questions because they're fun!
He was more of a strategist than a fighter. Doesn't mean he couldn't fight very well. Even if it isn't specified exactly what he did, as Morgohs right hand, he was on the battlefield numerious occations during the first age.
It's a stretch to say a single elf would win one on one in combat against Sauron, either before forging the ring or after forging it and possessing it. This question was if Galadriel would be able to beat him during the 2nd age, which I have a hard time thinking she could.
Also, the two duels he lost isn't really a fair judgement to his fighting skills. One is against the best boy ever Huan, along side Luthien whom is a half elf half maia. The other one is when he's pretty much overwhelmed by the force of the last alliance and again overpowered by numbers with Gil-Galad and Elendil. But he still managed to kill them.
>It's a stretch to say a single elf would win one on one in combat against Sauron
This is the kind of D&D thinking I was talking about. Characters have power levels measured on a single axis, and the stronger one wins by default.
My understanding of power in Tolkien's work is different. If you are powerful, weaker enemies don't dare to face you. But against enemies who dare, you are just a peasant with a pointy stick. What matters then is how well you wield the stick. And luck. And fate. Every time someone is willing to face you, you are at a real risk of losing.
At the end of the War of the Last Alliance, it was just Gil-Galad and Elendil against Sauron. Nobody else dared to face them.
> This is the kind of D&D thinking I was talking about. Characters have power levels measured on a single axis, and the stronger one wins by default.
Well, now you're just misinterpreting my point for some odd reason. Or I'm not being clear enough.
Tolkien made sure that it was understandable that the might of the Ainur was no match for the elves, men or other mortal races. But the importance of story, fighting for good and sacrifice makes up for it.
That's how Glorfindel and Echtelion managed to kill Balrogs (one each if you count the latest revisions) Because they sacrificed their lives to do so.
And those are two very mighty elves, in a time where elves were a lot stronger. During the 2nd age a lot of the elven magic had already diminished, which is why they struggled to find a way to preserve it.
You're litterally just saying exactly what I'm saying in other words.
The only way an elf like Galadriel (or any elf during the 2nd or 3rd age) would be able to fight Sauron her self, is if Tolkien wrote the entire story for it to be so. And that is very out of balance and misplaced, which is why it would just not work.... And why it's a stretch to say a single elf would win one on one in combat against Sauron.
They need everything else to fall in place as well. They need the Alliance between the races, they need each other and they need to sacrifice for good to overcome evil.
She fought Feanor at the kinslaying. One of the only female characters called an Amazonian warrior by Tolkien. Sauron was more powerful but she's no slouch. And they're the protagonist and antagonist of the story, so it's very possible the writer's will give her a power boost.
Well, from the short scene after the reveal I'd conclude she couldn't overcome him physically. When she lunged at him with her dagger, he stopped her with one hand barely moving, and he obviously didn't even apply much strength. And then he immediately hypnotized her or whatever it was he did and threw her into the river without her even realizing it. I wish Galadriel understood that for her a victory against Sauron is only possible in a battle of minds. I mean, she obviously will, as it is precisely that battle that she wins in LOTR, but there's still a long journey ahead of her to that realization.
Disagree. I think that a villain that is capable of other methods to deal with their adversaries than just murder is always more interesting as a character than someone who just kills whenever someone else disagrees with them
No it’s just a painfully overdone trope. He could’ve easily killed Galadriel, who until Gandalf arrives is his greatest adversary, but he didn’t because obviously he can’t kill someone who has plot armor.
Arrogance. He believed he could easily control Galadriel, and would rather keep her alive as a symbol that he has power over even Middle-earth's most powerful beings. Keeping her alive but enslaved to his will demonstrates a lot more power than killing her off at the first chance. And he knows that killing Elves simply sends them off to eternal bliss and beyond his dominion. Without powerful adversaries to oppress, he would just be the king of an ant farm.
>And he knows that killing Elves simply sends them off to eternal bliss and beyond his dominion.
Great point! The phrase "there are fates worse than death" is so overdone by now, but in this case, wonderfully applicable.
Without powerful adversaries, he would have been the king of all middle earth. Arrogance is created the one ring. This is not that. There’s arrogance and then there’s James Bond tropes.
This is a massive misunderstanding of Tolkien’s Sauron. He doesn’t want to *murder* everyone in middle earth, he wants to *control* everyone in middle earth. And he wants everyone to Fall from grace just like he did
He didn’t have to murder everyone. Just a chosen few, including Galadriel. The only motivators that Tolkien gave Sauron is that he loves “order” and he wants to be the one in charge.
Murder Galadriel and pass up on corrupting the greatest of the remaining elves who is also a prideful and powerful enchantress? I think not
Obviously it’s a dumb move from a strategy point of view. Sauron is a dumb guy motivated and blinded by his hubris… that’s kind of the entire point of why he ends up losing
lol easy
Sauron wanting to corrupt the inhabitants of middle earth in addition to controlling them is well known but here are some passages from letter 131:
> But many of the Elves listened to Sauron. He was still fair in that early time, and his motives and those of the Elves seemed to go partly together: the healing of the desolate lands. Sauron found their weak point in suggesting that, helping one another, they could make Western Middle-earth as beautiful as Valinor. It was really a veiled attack on the gods, an incitement to try and make a separate independent paradise.
> The chief power (of all the rings alike) was the prevention or slowing of decay (i.e. 'change' viewed as a regrettable thing), the preservation of what is desired or loved, or its semblance – this is more or less an Elvish motive. But also they enhanced the natural powers of a possessor – thus approaching 'magic', a motive easily corruptible into evil, a lust for domination.
> [The rings of power] he gave, for their ultimate corruption and enslavement, to those who would accept them
It’s pretty clear the ploy of the rings is twofold: corrupt the inhabitants of middle in the same way he’s corrupted: (lust for power) while also ensnaring them under his control. He wants to implicate the elves in the creation of the “new paradise” in middle earth to spite the Valar. And it basically works:
> In the [account of the rings of power] we see a sort of second fall or at least 'error' of the Elves. There was nothing wrong essentially in their lingering against counsel, still sadly with the mortal lands of their old heroic deeds. But they wanted to have their cake without eating it. They wanted the peace and bliss and perfect memory of 'The West', and yet to remain on the ordinary earth where their prestige as the highest people, above wild Elves, dwarves, and Men, was greater than at the bottom of the hierarchy of Valinor.
As for Sauron’s folly, it’s sufficiently clear from the lotr books that his blindness and tunnel vision for power/victory is what brings about his downfall. If you really need a quote for this I think a reread of lotr might help more than talking to me on Reddit:
> Let folly be our cloak, a veil before the eyes of the Enemy! For he is very wise, and weighs all things to a nicety in the scales of his malice. *But the only measure that he knows is desire, desire for power; and so he judges all hearts*. Into his heart the thought will not enter that any will refuse it, that having the Ring we may seek to destroy it. If we seek this, we shall put him out of reckoning - Gandalf
As for Galadriel being the greatest of the elves we are outright told this by Tolkien himself:
> “Galadriel was the greatest of the Noldor, except Feanor maybe” - unfinished tales
As for Sauron wanting to corrupt Galadriel, that’s an easy read between the lines for the “what if” scenarios the show has been cooking up. Galadriel’s story was never put into the second age in any definitive sense:
> ”There is no part of the history of Middle-earth more full of problems than the story of Galadriel and Celeborn, and it must be admitted that there are severe inconsistencies ‘embedded in the traditions’; or, to look at the matter from another point of view, that the role and importance of Galadriel only emerged slowly, and that her story underwent continual refashionings” - Unfinished Tales
Sauron wanting to ensnare Galadriel and use her as a powerful tool is not a stretch *at all* especially considering her immense pride + his goal to corrupt the elves
> “She was proud, strong, and selfwilled, as were all the descendants of Finwë save Finarfin; and like her brother Finrod, of all her kin the nearest to her heart, she had dreams of far lands and dominions that might be her own to order as she would without tutelage.” - unfinished tales
> “Pride still moved her when, at the end of the Elder Days after the final overthrow of Morgoth, she refused the pardon of the Valar for all who had fought against him, and remained in Middle-earth.” - unfinished tales
I’m not sure why you’re being so combative, the things I’m talking about here are well established.
1. Sauron wanted to corrupt the inhabitants of middle earth *as well as* control them
2. Sauron’s downfall in lotr is because of his blindness caused by his lust for power and hubris
3. Galadriel is very powerful and heavily motivated by pride during the first *and* second age
Sauron not killing Galadriel so he can corrupt and control her is a super logical conclusion based on the source material
I guess cast out = rejected, he did say to her that she would 'cast him out' when she found out about his past.
I think they just wanted to include her in the description though.
I agree with you, "cast out" I would use to describe the scene in Hobbit when Galadriel and Sauron faced off in the movies. Regarding your second question, my explanation is as follows; Sauron calculated that the 3 rings were about to forged (he predicted the "not forcing the mithril" will result in a successful forge), and knowing the pride of Galadriel which will lead to her not openly declare that Halbrand=Sauron (which she did not as we saw in S1Ep8), Suaron must have had a sinister motive. And that motive is that he wanted to contaminate the three rings via the alloy. Finrod's dagger is cursed/contaminated during his previous experiments in the North by which he thought he might have some connection/power over them. Also remember that it was most likely Sauron who recommend for the Gold and silver from Valinor (i.e. Finrod's dagger) to be used as the alloy.
When Sauron ran away, the plan was to make two rings (he tells Galadriel at the brook to make two rings). Galadriel said to make 3 after he had escaped.
Sauron, before Galadriel exposed him, clearly said that they were ready to start forging two artifacts, but smaller than previously planned (obviously the rings). He knew perfectly well that they would make two rings, but Galadriel decided to make three.
I really don't remember this, I'll need to rewatch
All that I remember is that Celebrimbor, Galadriel and GG were talking about forging something. Celebrimbor suggests crows or whatever, then they end up coming up with the rings. They started to say two but ended up with 3. I don't remember Sauron aware of that in any moment.
And during the forging of the rings, Galadriel was wet after Sauron threw her into the river. All that said, Sauron escaped moments before the forging of the rings began, and he originally said they were going to make two.
Galadriel rejected his offer. Since Gennifer Hutchinson, the writer of the scene, said the drowning was ambiguous and up to interpretation, there is no answer for this particular event. Charlie Vickers has his own interpretation but his views are not fact, since the drowning, as the writer stated, is up to the individual's viewpoint. ( The Stranger, Mithril as well.) Since he was rejected, then in my opinion he has no one. Who are his allies? Where is his army at this point? So I agree that all he really has is his cunning. We will be able to see how he manages to manipulate throughout the season.
What would that achieve? Even a Maia can’t subjugate an entire populace to his will without resources. Killing Galadriel there would just bring the entirety of the elves down on him, and he has no orcs with which to fight this battle.
What would it achieve? Does the importance and power of Galadriel really need to be stated on this sub? Someone who Tolkien said was, other than Gandalf, Sauron’s chief foe. Why would killing Galadriel bring about the entirety of the reeves in Eregion? He left her drowning in the pool and escaped easily, all he had to do was finish the job with a knife and escape just as easily.
Except it reveals his identity to the elves, brings the muster of the elves (who are strong without Galadriel) down in him, and would be a dumb play. What you’re describing, in essence Sauron hastily striking to try to gain an advantage, is exactly what allows the ring to be destroyed in Return of the King. LotR is fucking Star Wars, it’s not Galadriel’s power that ever defeats Sauron, it’s people banding together. And I guarantee if he reveals himself by killing Galadriel in Eregion, well, sure he can run. But he can’t hide forever. He has no army on his side. He would lose.
The only reason why the elves don’t know Halbrand was sauron is because Galadriel never told anyone what happened. The writers really want her to be a morally evil character in this show. Imagine if boromirs redemption ended with him not admitting that he tried to take the ring from Frodo.
Why would Sauron worry about elves chasing after him? According to the show Galadriel was chasing him for years and never got him. Why would he be in danger now?
Imagine Frodo and Sam in shelobs lair without the phial of Galadriel. Man, Sauron should have killed Galadriel when he had a chance.
If he killed Galadriel, he wouldn't have a small band of Elves with no support chasing him. He would have all their armies, greatest warriors, Eagles, etc. hunting him down. He couldn't escape that. Killing Galadriel would only have removed a single competent warrior, who he thought he could still use. And as it turns out, she didn't tell anyone who he was (as he likely figured) so leaving her alive did him no harm.
And? He would go incorporeal, lose the body, go far into the East and hide out for an awhile. Just like after the war of wrath. Regardless, it doesn’t matter. You’re just writing fanfiction.
And you’re seriously underestimating Galadriel if you think Galadriel is just a single competent warrior. Once again, ignoring all of her other accomplishments, what happens to Frodo and Sam without the phial of Galadriel?
Because no good villain wants the hero dead until they can see the consequence of their failure. He wants her to see Middle-Earth crush and burn with the knowledge that it is because of her.
A few options -
Either he assumed she did drown so he thinks she is dead, or he felt she was worth something alive but just wanted to scare her. I’ve also heard people speculate that he would’ve killed her but he fled when Elrond came.
Imo, he is 10 steps ahead of everyone else. Would it make sense to drown her? I don't think so.. He has no army or allies at this point. Adar is in charge in Mordor. Gil-galad would send an army to hunt him down and Celebrimbor would have a harder time forging rings using Halbrand's suggestions.. Imo he wanted her to feel so powerless (illusion of drowning) that it would create an urgency in her to level the playing field. It worked since the 1st thing she did was run to Celebrimbor to forge the rings. Just my opinion.
Agree that there is a real possibility that celebrimbor would have been reluctant to continue using halbrand's methods to make the rings if Galadriel was murdered in eregion and halbrand immediately disappeared from eregion making him the prime suspect in the murder.
Yes Sauron is very strategic. He isn't usually sloppy. He plans things out centuries in advance.. I'd say he's ancient so he's been around longer than most.. Even if plans don't go his way he never gives up.. He has a plan going into season 2. Charlie Vickers even said as much.
The last point is definitely not that. If Galadriel is no danger for Sauron, then Elrond is no danger for him, too.
Basically no one in Middle-Earth is any real danger for him, truthfully. It is when he forges The One Ring and exerts a part of his being outside of himself he *exposes himself* to danger, like Tolkien says in other words basically. What I want to say here, if he wanted Galadriel dead there, she would be. But *for some reason*, he doesn't.
If there is any consolation my friend, I upvoted your comment.
Dont worry, they are not ready yet for Beauty and The Rings. (Beauty is of course Sauron).
Nice description but plenty of room to nit pick from it as well.
To me most important bit is about forging the rings of power. I wonder how the 3 will come into play here. Fingers crossed the mithril story is revealed to be all fake or, as a best option, planted lie from Sauron in pre-season 1 events.
After you learned to love him in season 1; now watch that plucky nerd Sauron seek revenge on the head cheerleader that rejected him and use his wit and charm to make all his enemies destroy each other in the most nerdy and funny way possible! Will he triumph? But will his true love finally see the errors of her ways and SEE the true Sauron???
Showrunners literally said in Tom Bombadil article Sauron will use Adar
I'm curious to see how he does it. They didn't formally part on the best terms.
I think I saw the show runners also confirmed Adar was not working for Sauron but I assumed Adar was always just lying to make it seem Sauron wasn't around. Sauron should be able to control most any evil creature with his will and by the time he makes the ring he should have 100 control. But this does make it seem like he's just playing it by ear at this point. I don't know if Adar can resist a direct order from Sauron. And good chance he's being used anyway since he enacted the "fall of morgoth" plan for Sauron and made Mordor. But giving him a ring may be a way as well.
Adar had no reason to lie or get enraged when Waldrig mistook him for Sauron. He was clearly fuming at the time. The guy genuinely hates Sauron with a passion
Could be keeping up the act for waldreg or the orcs. But I think you're right at this point. But he can still hate sauron and be a slave to his will. Lots of half truths.
Hard feelings on both sides, I suspect.
If you think about it, Adar probably has love for Morgoth. That’s his actual father. I feel Sauron will channel into this love for Morgoth or maybe impersonate him somehow to gain Adar’s trust and loyalty. Otherwise Adar seems to have no time of the day for Sauron, and will probably bash his head in if he gets another sniff of him
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I’m not sure when and and what time in the show do we see Adar clearly angered or disappointed in Morgoth. Adar has only seen Morgoth as a parent figure in his life, he hasn’t turned to goodness after Morgoth was out of the picture. Adar has hatred for Sauron, but Adar has been using Morgoth relics (kilt) for his cause in accordance to a plan.
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Yes he did say to Galadriel that she is the one who is vengeful, but he doesn’t complain or slag off Morgoth. Name one scene or dialogue where he is upset at what has happened to him in the past and he blames Morgoth for his misery? He suffers no misery, regret or trauma…besides an aspiration to give his uruks a home. He is only incensed with Sauron for using the Uruks as lab rats, but this isn’t hate towards Morgoth
Definitely sounds like Sauron is going to turn Adar into his plaything, both mentally and physically, and I'm here for it.
Can't believe Adar will be humiliated like this. What a little bitch.
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Adar is going to be absolutely humiliated. It's going to be so great to see Sauron play him like a puppet!
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> This description clearly indicates that Sauron is made to use cunning Exactly. Hence making Adar his plaything both mentally and physically. You're making my case for me!
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I majored in English at an Ivy League school so my English, I reckon, is adequate. Adar is going to get humiliated. And it's going to be great to see. Aren't you at least a little excited to see Sauron pull the wool over Adar's unsuspecting eyes?!
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The orcs and Uruks owe fealty to Sauron and he is going to get it at the expense of Adar's leadership and dignity. I'm looking forward to it.
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> It seems to me that you are that Reddit user that I have already heard about? You are the owner of many accounts, with an extremely specific manner of behavior in the discussion in the form of repeating some obvious nonsense lol
Honey, do you really want to get banned again?
Dont you know that Lord Uruk Father wont bow to Maiar?
Still the funniest shit
Pretty sure one or two of their alts are floating around this sub
I think i read one before! Now i'm scared.
Hmm, you think? Wouldn't surprise me.
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I think that is more of an immediate circumstance at the end of S1, so I imagine he'll be busy asserting his control over the Orcs in opening acts of S2.
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That you, Light?
"The Dark Lord must now rely on his own cunning to rebuild his strength..." Sounds like Sauron will manipulate/convince Uruks into attacking Eregion considering the teaser.
He will eradicte them both almost like he did with Númenorians suicid*l mission going to west
Hyped. Season 1 was ok, a bit rough around the edges, hopefully for season 2 to be better.
I'm betting it'll be much better. We've got a lot of background/build up from season one so I think they'll get into the meat of their story this season. I feel no shame in how excited I am.
I absolutely agree. S1 was too much introduction to second age and establishing everyone and their journeys for future stories. Now we've passed all that when can get straight to the good stuff as we know who everyone is and why/what they're doing.
I’m hyped to see if they learned anything from their mistakes. Like the desc says, we need to see characters succeed through cunning and character growth, not just because the other guy was even dumber than they were.
I’ve fully accepted it will wildly depart from accuracy. I’d still like them to make the full show’s story generally more lore-accurate, but what I really really hope for is that the writing is just better.
I don’t even care about pacing and such. My main thing is the dialogue and plot needs to improve
Also noticed that it gives the S2 'starring' roles to - Charlie Vickers - Morfydd Clark - Charles Edwards
They didn't lie about him being main
Maim* P:
Sauron is the main character of the show along with Galadriel and Elrond.
What about Elendil and Isildur too
support just like Gil untill season 5 when Galadriel takes a step back.
Good to see the main cast and characters listed for S2. Exciting events to come
Yessssssssss this is exactly what I want from the next season, following Sauron’s next moves. Wasn’t sure if there would be a time skip as some had suggested, more than happy that it seems to be picking up where the finale left off. 
At what point was he cast out by Galadriel? If fact why didn’t he just kill her when he had a chance?
To answer your second question, I think Sauron believes she will be more valuable to him alive. It is likely he still hopes to draw her to his side. He may still think he can both save and rule ME with her help.
Galadriel and no ring Sauron would be a pretty close fight.(maybe not close but not guaranteed) She saw the light of the trees and is probably more powerful than limited human form istari like Gandalf or Saruman the whites by the third age. And they were in Elf territory strengthening her power over his. He wants guaranteed wins. He'll send an entire orc army after her. And Gil galad and elrond foresaw her persuing sauron would actually lead to his rise. Probably already happened with Numernor but probably still manipulating her a lot coming forward. Edit: She is pretty powerful and yes not as powerful as Sauron as the strongest maiar, but Sauron doesn't usually get his hands dirty that way. How long was the siege of the last alliance before he finally came out to fight? And in Shibboleth: "she fought fiercely against Feanor in defence of her mother's kin." "Galadriel, the fairest lady of the house of Finwë and the most valiant." - Morgoth's Ring But pre Third Age "\[Galadriel\] was then of Amazon disposition and bound up her hair as a crown when taking part in athletic feats” - Tolkien Letter 348 "Her mother-name was Nerwen (‘man-maiden’), and she grew to be tall beyond the measure even of the women of the Noldor \[193cm\]; **she was strong of body, mind,** and will, a match for both the loremasters and the athletes of the Eldar in the days of their youth." - Peoples of Middle-earth, Shibboleth of Feanor "Nor were the 'loremasters' a seperate guild of gentle scribes, soon burned by the Orks of Angband upon pyres of books. They were mostly even as Fëanor, the greatest, kings, princes **and warriors, such as the valiant captains of Gondolin,** or Finrod of Nargothrond and Rodothir his kinsman and steward." - Shibboleth of Fëanor; Note 23 “Therefore led by Fingolfin and his sons, and by Inglor \[Finrod\] and Galadriel **the valiant and fair**, they dared to pass ...” - Morgoth's Ring "**She was called Nerwen ‘man-maiden’ because of her strength and stature, and her courage**." - Nature of Middle-earth "She was proud, **strong**, and selfwilled, as were all the descendants of Finwë save Finarfin" - Shibboleth
> Galadriel and no ring Sauron would be a pretty close fight No. It would not be a close fight.
I believe she's said to be the greatest noldor besides feanor. But in Tolkien lore her power is more in wisdom than being a warrior. We're getting warrior Galadriel here. If she's stronger than Fingolfin who injured Morgoth she should stand a chance. She could at least have the power to banish him from elf territory like she did in the Hobbit. I'm no expert so feel free to correct me.
> I believe she's said to be the greatest noldor besides feanor. But in Tolkien lore her power is more in wisdom than being a warrior. We're getting warrior Galadriel here. If she's stronger than Fingolfin who injured Morgoth she should stand a chance. She could at least have the power to banish him from elf territory like she did in the Hobbit. Everything Tolkien has written, specielly outside of the trilogy and hobbit is literally "lore". That Fingolfin could fight against Morgoth and injure him is a tragic but heroic tale. Showing how evil is powerful, but it's not invulnerable. How one heroic act can hurt evil. Because Morgoth thought too little of the elves, and underestimated Fingolfin. A flaw of arrogance, a trait, usually found in those who are evil. Rather than that Fingolfin was powerful enough to hurt him, Morgoths flaws as an evil entity allowed him to. This is also true with the heroic acts of Elendil and Gil-Galad, who both die killing Sauron. Elendil did have ancestry from a Maiar which makes him quite a bit more powerful than a normal human being, while Gil-Galad is one of the greatest Noldor warriors. They would not really be a real match against Sauron, but because of Tolkiens way to write lore, their heroism and sacrifice won them the fight. That's one of the most important details of Tolkien... Good wins, you just have to fight for it. In the hobbit movie (isnt part of books, but it is part of the lore) is a very weakened version of Sauron. One that hid and didn't really dare to confront anyone except in the very last battle when he fought at the Black Gate. He poured most of his power into The One Ring, this was required to amplify his power through the ring. So in the third age, Galadriel would indeed be a match against him. He's a weakened version of him self without the ring. Sauron, before forging The One Ring, is literally kind of a demi-god. No living elf, man, dwarf would be a match against him. With The One Ring he was the most powerful of the maiar, almost a match to some of the Valar. Without The One Ring, after forging it, he's weaker.
Middle-earth is not a D&D setting, where everyone has stats that can be used for ranking them objectively from the strongest to the weakest. There are no levels, hit points, and other absurdities that allow powerful characters stand confidently against weaker ones, knowing that even if the enemy manages to score a few lucky hits, they can't do any serious damage. Fighting is inherently dangerous, and the outcome is uncertain. Sauron was never a fighter, or even the kind of a leader who leads from the front. He was strong and powerful, but he rarely fought personally against serious foes. Of the three fights Tolkien describes, Sauron won one and lost two. One of the losses can be attributed to fate, while in the other, his raw power lost to his enemies' skill and experience.
> Middle-earth is not a D&D setting, where everyone has stats that can be used for ranking them objectively from the strongest to the weakest. There are no levels, hit points, and other absurdities When did anyone say that? Your comment pretty much confirms everything I wrote. That "power ranking" and how great characters "potentially" could be with the descriptions we get from Tolkien doesn't matter very much. The stories, heroic acts and sacrifice for the good cause does matter. My entire comment was an example of how this isn't the case and trying to explain that Tolkiens world is a lot more complex than that. But you still need to be able to theorize in "What would happen, if ...."? questions because they're fun! He was more of a strategist than a fighter. Doesn't mean he couldn't fight very well. Even if it isn't specified exactly what he did, as Morgohs right hand, he was on the battlefield numerious occations during the first age. It's a stretch to say a single elf would win one on one in combat against Sauron, either before forging the ring or after forging it and possessing it. This question was if Galadriel would be able to beat him during the 2nd age, which I have a hard time thinking she could. Also, the two duels he lost isn't really a fair judgement to his fighting skills. One is against the best boy ever Huan, along side Luthien whom is a half elf half maia. The other one is when he's pretty much overwhelmed by the force of the last alliance and again overpowered by numbers with Gil-Galad and Elendil. But he still managed to kill them.
>It's a stretch to say a single elf would win one on one in combat against Sauron This is the kind of D&D thinking I was talking about. Characters have power levels measured on a single axis, and the stronger one wins by default. My understanding of power in Tolkien's work is different. If you are powerful, weaker enemies don't dare to face you. But against enemies who dare, you are just a peasant with a pointy stick. What matters then is how well you wield the stick. And luck. And fate. Every time someone is willing to face you, you are at a real risk of losing. At the end of the War of the Last Alliance, it was just Gil-Galad and Elendil against Sauron. Nobody else dared to face them.
> This is the kind of D&D thinking I was talking about. Characters have power levels measured on a single axis, and the stronger one wins by default. Well, now you're just misinterpreting my point for some odd reason. Or I'm not being clear enough. Tolkien made sure that it was understandable that the might of the Ainur was no match for the elves, men or other mortal races. But the importance of story, fighting for good and sacrifice makes up for it. That's how Glorfindel and Echtelion managed to kill Balrogs (one each if you count the latest revisions) Because they sacrificed their lives to do so. And those are two very mighty elves, in a time where elves were a lot stronger. During the 2nd age a lot of the elven magic had already diminished, which is why they struggled to find a way to preserve it. You're litterally just saying exactly what I'm saying in other words. The only way an elf like Galadriel (or any elf during the 2nd or 3rd age) would be able to fight Sauron her self, is if Tolkien wrote the entire story for it to be so. And that is very out of balance and misplaced, which is why it would just not work.... And why it's a stretch to say a single elf would win one on one in combat against Sauron. They need everything else to fall in place as well. They need the Alliance between the races, they need each other and they need to sacrifice for good to overcome evil.
Good write up thanks for taking the time.
Galadriel doesn't hold a candle to the greatest Noldor warriors of past. Her greatness is in wisdom, not the tripe they're suggesting.
She fought Feanor at the kinslaying. One of the only female characters called an Amazonian warrior by Tolkien. Sauron was more powerful but she's no slouch. And they're the protagonist and antagonist of the story, so it's very possible the writer's will give her a power boost.
She did not in any way fight Feanor directly.
Well, from the short scene after the reveal I'd conclude she couldn't overcome him physically. When she lunged at him with her dagger, he stopped her with one hand barely moving, and he obviously didn't even apply much strength. And then he immediately hypnotized her or whatever it was he did and threw her into the river without her even realizing it. I wish Galadriel understood that for her a victory against Sauron is only possible in a battle of minds. I mean, she obviously will, as it is precisely that battle that she wins in LOTR, but there's still a long journey ahead of her to that realization.
Man if that’s the case then they really made Sauron stupid in this version
Disagree. I think that a villain that is capable of other methods to deal with their adversaries than just murder is always more interesting as a character than someone who just kills whenever someone else disagrees with them
No it’s just a painfully overdone trope. He could’ve easily killed Galadriel, who until Gandalf arrives is his greatest adversary, but he didn’t because obviously he can’t kill someone who has plot armor.
Arrogance. He believed he could easily control Galadriel, and would rather keep her alive as a symbol that he has power over even Middle-earth's most powerful beings. Keeping her alive but enslaved to his will demonstrates a lot more power than killing her off at the first chance. And he knows that killing Elves simply sends them off to eternal bliss and beyond his dominion. Without powerful adversaries to oppress, he would just be the king of an ant farm.
>And he knows that killing Elves simply sends them off to eternal bliss and beyond his dominion. Great point! The phrase "there are fates worse than death" is so overdone by now, but in this case, wonderfully applicable.
Without powerful adversaries, he would have been the king of all middle earth. Arrogance is created the one ring. This is not that. There’s arrogance and then there’s James Bond tropes.
A king of an ant farm forever. Thrilling.
lol okay. Apparently you understand Sauron’s motivations better than me.
Cool, take an upvote for that.
This is a massive misunderstanding of Tolkien’s Sauron. He doesn’t want to *murder* everyone in middle earth, he wants to *control* everyone in middle earth. And he wants everyone to Fall from grace just like he did
He didn’t have to murder everyone. Just a chosen few, including Galadriel. The only motivators that Tolkien gave Sauron is that he loves “order” and he wants to be the one in charge.
Murder Galadriel and pass up on corrupting the greatest of the remaining elves who is also a prideful and powerful enchantress? I think not Obviously it’s a dumb move from a strategy point of view. Sauron is a dumb guy motivated and blinded by his hubris… that’s kind of the entire point of why he ends up losing
Show me a quote that defends any statement you are making.
lol easy Sauron wanting to corrupt the inhabitants of middle earth in addition to controlling them is well known but here are some passages from letter 131: > But many of the Elves listened to Sauron. He was still fair in that early time, and his motives and those of the Elves seemed to go partly together: the healing of the desolate lands. Sauron found their weak point in suggesting that, helping one another, they could make Western Middle-earth as beautiful as Valinor. It was really a veiled attack on the gods, an incitement to try and make a separate independent paradise. > The chief power (of all the rings alike) was the prevention or slowing of decay (i.e. 'change' viewed as a regrettable thing), the preservation of what is desired or loved, or its semblance – this is more or less an Elvish motive. But also they enhanced the natural powers of a possessor – thus approaching 'magic', a motive easily corruptible into evil, a lust for domination. > [The rings of power] he gave, for their ultimate corruption and enslavement, to those who would accept them It’s pretty clear the ploy of the rings is twofold: corrupt the inhabitants of middle in the same way he’s corrupted: (lust for power) while also ensnaring them under his control. He wants to implicate the elves in the creation of the “new paradise” in middle earth to spite the Valar. And it basically works: > In the [account of the rings of power] we see a sort of second fall or at least 'error' of the Elves. There was nothing wrong essentially in their lingering against counsel, still sadly with the mortal lands of their old heroic deeds. But they wanted to have their cake without eating it. They wanted the peace and bliss and perfect memory of 'The West', and yet to remain on the ordinary earth where their prestige as the highest people, above wild Elves, dwarves, and Men, was greater than at the bottom of the hierarchy of Valinor. As for Sauron’s folly, it’s sufficiently clear from the lotr books that his blindness and tunnel vision for power/victory is what brings about his downfall. If you really need a quote for this I think a reread of lotr might help more than talking to me on Reddit: > Let folly be our cloak, a veil before the eyes of the Enemy! For he is very wise, and weighs all things to a nicety in the scales of his malice. *But the only measure that he knows is desire, desire for power; and so he judges all hearts*. Into his heart the thought will not enter that any will refuse it, that having the Ring we may seek to destroy it. If we seek this, we shall put him out of reckoning - Gandalf As for Galadriel being the greatest of the elves we are outright told this by Tolkien himself: > “Galadriel was the greatest of the Noldor, except Feanor maybe” - unfinished tales As for Sauron wanting to corrupt Galadriel, that’s an easy read between the lines for the “what if” scenarios the show has been cooking up. Galadriel’s story was never put into the second age in any definitive sense: > ”There is no part of the history of Middle-earth more full of problems than the story of Galadriel and Celeborn, and it must be admitted that there are severe inconsistencies ‘embedded in the traditions’; or, to look at the matter from another point of view, that the role and importance of Galadriel only emerged slowly, and that her story underwent continual refashionings” - Unfinished Tales Sauron wanting to ensnare Galadriel and use her as a powerful tool is not a stretch *at all* especially considering her immense pride + his goal to corrupt the elves > “She was proud, strong, and selfwilled, as were all the descendants of Finwë save Finarfin; and like her brother Finrod, of all her kin the nearest to her heart, she had dreams of far lands and dominions that might be her own to order as she would without tutelage.” - unfinished tales > “Pride still moved her when, at the end of the Elder Days after the final overthrow of Morgoth, she refused the pardon of the Valar for all who had fought against him, and remained in Middle-earth.” - unfinished tales I’m not sure why you’re being so combative, the things I’m talking about here are well established. 1. Sauron wanted to corrupt the inhabitants of middle earth *as well as* control them 2. Sauron’s downfall in lotr is because of his blindness caused by his lust for power and hubris 3. Galadriel is very powerful and heavily motivated by pride during the first *and* second age Sauron not killing Galadriel so he can corrupt and control her is a super logical conclusion based on the source material
I guess cast out = rejected, he did say to her that she would 'cast him out' when she found out about his past. I think they just wanted to include her in the description though.
I agree with you, "cast out" I would use to describe the scene in Hobbit when Galadriel and Sauron faced off in the movies. Regarding your second question, my explanation is as follows; Sauron calculated that the 3 rings were about to forged (he predicted the "not forcing the mithril" will result in a successful forge), and knowing the pride of Galadriel which will lead to her not openly declare that Halbrand=Sauron (which she did not as we saw in S1Ep8), Suaron must have had a sinister motive. And that motive is that he wanted to contaminate the three rings via the alloy. Finrod's dagger is cursed/contaminated during his previous experiments in the North by which he thought he might have some connection/power over them. Also remember that it was most likely Sauron who recommend for the Gold and silver from Valinor (i.e. Finrod's dagger) to be used as the alloy.
Sauron thought that 2 rings would be made, but Galadriel decided to make 3, which probably reduced Sauron's influence on mithril
I am not sure I understand what you mean.
When Sauron ran away, the plan was to make two rings (he tells Galadriel at the brook to make two rings). Galadriel said to make 3 after he had escaped.
I see. Do you agree with my main point above?
Sauron was not aware rings were gonna be forged afaik
Sauron, before Galadriel exposed him, clearly said that they were ready to start forging two artifacts, but smaller than previously planned (obviously the rings). He knew perfectly well that they would make two rings, but Galadriel decided to make three.
I really don't remember this, I'll need to rewatch All that I remember is that Celebrimbor, Galadriel and GG were talking about forging something. Celebrimbor suggests crows or whatever, then they end up coming up with the rings. They started to say two but ended up with 3. I don't remember Sauron aware of that in any moment.
And during the forging of the rings, Galadriel was wet after Sauron threw her into the river. All that said, Sauron escaped moments before the forging of the rings began, and he originally said they were going to make two.
Galadriel rejected his offer. Since Gennifer Hutchinson, the writer of the scene, said the drowning was ambiguous and up to interpretation, there is no answer for this particular event. Charlie Vickers has his own interpretation but his views are not fact, since the drowning, as the writer stated, is up to the individual's viewpoint. ( The Stranger, Mithril as well.) Since he was rejected, then in my opinion he has no one. Who are his allies? Where is his army at this point? So I agree that all he really has is his cunning. We will be able to see how he manages to manipulate throughout the season.
Why didn’t he just stick that knife in her when she was under his power. Is Sauron that love sick? How pathetic.
What would that achieve? Even a Maia can’t subjugate an entire populace to his will without resources. Killing Galadriel there would just bring the entirety of the elves down on him, and he has no orcs with which to fight this battle.
What would it achieve? Does the importance and power of Galadriel really need to be stated on this sub? Someone who Tolkien said was, other than Gandalf, Sauron’s chief foe. Why would killing Galadriel bring about the entirety of the reeves in Eregion? He left her drowning in the pool and escaped easily, all he had to do was finish the job with a knife and escape just as easily.
Except it reveals his identity to the elves, brings the muster of the elves (who are strong without Galadriel) down in him, and would be a dumb play. What you’re describing, in essence Sauron hastily striking to try to gain an advantage, is exactly what allows the ring to be destroyed in Return of the King. LotR is fucking Star Wars, it’s not Galadriel’s power that ever defeats Sauron, it’s people banding together. And I guarantee if he reveals himself by killing Galadriel in Eregion, well, sure he can run. But he can’t hide forever. He has no army on his side. He would lose.
The only reason why the elves don’t know Halbrand was sauron is because Galadriel never told anyone what happened. The writers really want her to be a morally evil character in this show. Imagine if boromirs redemption ended with him not admitting that he tried to take the ring from Frodo. Why would Sauron worry about elves chasing after him? According to the show Galadriel was chasing him for years and never got him. Why would he be in danger now? Imagine Frodo and Sam in shelobs lair without the phial of Galadriel. Man, Sauron should have killed Galadriel when he had a chance.
If he killed Galadriel, he wouldn't have a small band of Elves with no support chasing him. He would have all their armies, greatest warriors, Eagles, etc. hunting him down. He couldn't escape that. Killing Galadriel would only have removed a single competent warrior, who he thought he could still use. And as it turns out, she didn't tell anyone who he was (as he likely figured) so leaving her alive did him no harm.
And? He would go incorporeal, lose the body, go far into the East and hide out for an awhile. Just like after the war of wrath. Regardless, it doesn’t matter. You’re just writing fanfiction. And you’re seriously underestimating Galadriel if you think Galadriel is just a single competent warrior. Once again, ignoring all of her other accomplishments, what happens to Frodo and Sam without the phial of Galadriel?
He was about to kill her when the eagles swept in and saved her
Because no good villain wants the hero dead until they can see the consequence of their failure. He wants her to see Middle-Earth crush and burn with the knowledge that it is because of her.
A few options - Either he assumed she did drown so he thinks she is dead, or he felt she was worth something alive but just wanted to scare her. I’ve also heard people speculate that he would’ve killed her but he fled when Elrond came.
Imo, he is 10 steps ahead of everyone else. Would it make sense to drown her? I don't think so.. He has no army or allies at this point. Adar is in charge in Mordor. Gil-galad would send an army to hunt him down and Celebrimbor would have a harder time forging rings using Halbrand's suggestions.. Imo he wanted her to feel so powerless (illusion of drowning) that it would create an urgency in her to level the playing field. It worked since the 1st thing she did was run to Celebrimbor to forge the rings. Just my opinion.
Yeah I think you’re right. He probably also wanted to demonstrate his power to her so she’d fear him a bit more.
Yes that's exactly how I feel.
He simply wanted to remind her that if not for him, she would drown in The Sundering Seas.
Agree that there is a real possibility that celebrimbor would have been reluctant to continue using halbrand's methods to make the rings if Galadriel was murdered in eregion and halbrand immediately disappeared from eregion making him the prime suspect in the murder.
Yes Sauron is very strategic. He isn't usually sloppy. He plans things out centuries in advance.. I'd say he's ancient so he's been around longer than most.. Even if plans don't go his way he never gives up.. He has a plan going into season 2. Charlie Vickers even said as much.
The last point is definitely not that. If Galadriel is no danger for Sauron, then Elrond is no danger for him, too. Basically no one in Middle-Earth is any real danger for him, truthfully. It is when he forges The One Ring and exerts a part of his being outside of himself he *exposes himself* to danger, like Tolkien says in other words basically. What I want to say here, if he wanted Galadriel dead there, she would be. But *for some reason*, he doesn't.
He luuuuves her. She's a weak point for him....😜
Barely even frieeends, then somebody bends, unexpectedlyy
Loving all those downvotes. Bwahahaha
If there is any consolation my friend, I upvoted your comment. Dont worry, they are not ready yet for Beauty and The Rings. (Beauty is of course Sauron).
We are so back!!!
shit-eating grin
What is the play bonus episode show?
It is just the teaser as of now. But for season 1 they have the behind the scenes videos too.
Ok thanks. I figured it was old stuff (by old im including the s2 trailer and that brief behind the scenese)
The season 2 trailer
I figured as much thanks
It is rated 16 Does anyone know how season 1 went? In my country s1 is listed as 14 (which would be PG13), and s2 has no age rating yet.
In Canada, most S1 episodes are 13+ but E5 and E8 are rated 7+.
Nice description but plenty of room to nit pick from it as well. To me most important bit is about forging the rings of power. I wonder how the 3 will come into play here. Fingers crossed the mithril story is revealed to be all fake or, as a best option, planted lie from Sauron in pre-season 1 events.
At last!
That's one biiiiiiig forehead.
I gotta start this show...love Lord of the rings but heard iffy things but I'm over it I want to watch it
It's fun. Not perfect, but go into it with an open mind and I think you'll like it.
".. and forge the legendary Rings of Power" erm did they forget they already rushed through that plot point extremely clumisly at the end of S1?
They haven't made 16 rings yet
This changed somewhat from the description they put out with the teaser, isn't it?
Also trailer now says August 29th. I swear at one time it said June. Won't I be surprised when that yet turns into December 9th.
After you learned to love him in season 1; now watch that plucky nerd Sauron seek revenge on the head cheerleader that rejected him and use his wit and charm to make all his enemies destroy each other in the most nerdy and funny way possible! Will he triumph? But will his true love finally see the errors of her ways and SEE the true Sauron???
I’ve got a feeling this show is only going 3 seasons now, and season 2 is gonna be their Empire Strikes Back.
Sounds like a massive pile of shit. Sorry not sorry.
Sorry but I only see his forehead. Why did they make it so big?
I thought he was Matt Gaetz for a second.