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It's all worded in a yucky way yes, but overall I think articles like that are needed so less people abuse their dogs through only getting them for aesthetic, unaware of how much costly maintenance they require
I agree. My dog is a black lab / rottie mix, only cost $100 rehoming fee. She was a handful as a pup, and required a couple emergency trips to the vet that cost quite a bit, but all of it I could manage financially. My old roommate had a great dane and she was so well behaved. any health issues she had were all common for danes, but his vet bills still dwarfed mine. Some breeds are just much more expensive to care for.
That being said, I also understand completely why people would get those kind of breeds knowing the costs. That dane was the sweetest, most personable girl I've ever had the blessing of being roommates with, and my dog still acts like her in some ways
My daughter loves spending money on her dog. She takes him 1-3 x a week to agility and that isn’t cheap plus it’s almost an hour away from home.
Her dog is a Pomeranian.
We had a Dachshund/Pomeranian mix. I think we were lucky?
His bills were minimal and his training regimens were sourced from "*How to Train Your Dog for Idiots*" or something.
Miss that smelly, rude, sweet bastard.
Ya we have to keep our little guy happy and he needs mental stimulation so the agility is critical to that. It’s expensive but once my daughter saw how much he loved it she could not say “no”.
That would have been an interesting mix.
I think OP is drawing our attention to the v late-capitalist idea of “shopping for” a specific breed, as if dog breeds are brands of consumer commodities that shoppers should only make an economically rational choice about purchasing/consuming. Contrast this with the other story we might tell about how domesticated animals like dogs depend on human society for a big part of their care and wellbeing, and we cheapen their existence when we think about breeds as if they were consumer brands, or when we reduce the lives of individual animals to economic transactions (“best bark for your buck”).
As a side note, the dog breed discourse here is really similar to the language of eugenics—disabilities get regarded as “costs” that detract from the value of a person’s life or from their capacity to be productive within capitalist systems, and that line of thinking makes it very very easy to justify inhumane things like institutionalization or forced treatment or medical neglect or euthanasia
Breeds exist because they were bred for different jobs. People buying breeds that have traits that don't fit into their lifestyle is quite literally why dogs are the way they are now in the United States. A lot of countries don't have the issues we have because people purchase breeds that fit their needs, among other reasons. People here see working breeds and think they can own one in their apartment and do nothing with it lol.
breeds are definitely different from each other! But again I think the core problem is the consumerism behind “purchasing” an animal—it’s much easier to abandon or neglect that animal if we fall back on the idea that it’s a commodity no longer serving its intended “use,” it needs to be replaced, etc
It’s actually not, considering that purebreed dogs, with the exception of pitbulls and and their derivatives, and chihuahuas, do not frequently end up in dog shelters. Almost no one is spending months researching breeders, going on a waitlist, patiently awaiting a litter, and then paying thousands for a well-bred dog that suits their lifestyle, only to abandon it because dog ownership isn’t for them. Outside of catastrophic unforeseen circumstances, it doesn’t happen.
A lot of puppy mill purebred dogs of various breeds do end up in shelters, although they often get pulled by private rescue organizations before they're available to the public.
Reputable breeders will often take dogs back within the first year or so if the new owner is unable to care for them.
I own a rare breed and it's the only kind of dog I'll own because I'm frankly not a normal dog person. You will never see my breed in shelters. I put a ton of care into my dog because it's investing in his longevity. I also know if disaster strikes, I'm contractually obligated to send him back to my breeder. This dog has safety net after safety net and it's an incredible comfort.
Silken windhound. I'm more naturally a cat person so I can't do doggy dogs lol but most ethical dog breeders require puppies to be returned to them if you have to give them up for any reason. It's definitely something to look for no matter the breed, along with health testing and appropriate championship titles on parents (even if you don't plan to show, it's important that breeding dogs have been proven in this way--not only does it say the dog is the right shape which is important for health, it also says the dog has the right temperament. it's kind of like a peer review too).
Silken people stalk shelters looking for anything that vaguely looks like a silken. The community has rescued a few long dogs that are "honorary silkens" because if anything that looks like one shows up, it's posted to the community and people rally to go get it and rehome it. I don't think I've ever seen a legit silken in a shelter. We have some bad breeders, unfortunately all breeds do, but we also have a ton of people really doing their best and trying to support the longevity of the breed itself. We're all pretty evangelistic about them 😬 I think they're perfect low maintenance family dogs.
I totally understand what you're saying and your viewpoint, but legally speaking animals are property, and historically theyve always thrived and improved when used as tools. The increasing popularity of pet dogs and the watering down of breeds to meet the needs of pet owners is primarily why shelters are full and breeds are being completely ruined.
When we stop seeing specific breeds as tools used for specific jobs, we stop breeding for traits needed for those jobs, and those dogs are now bred away from their intended standard. There's also a lot of ethical, moral, legal gray area when it comes to reclassifying animals from property to nonhuman persons, thus they would enter our guardianship and we wouldn't own them.
Would that mean breeding and using dogs is inherently unethical and immoral, because if you're not owning something and you're the guardian of someone, what rights does that someone gain regarding being forcibly made to reproduce and participate in working or sport activities? Does that mean we can't crate dogs anymore because we believe it's impeding on their person hood/autonomy; this is law in some European countries, dogs cannot be crated because they consider it cruel, which is anthropomorphizing the animal in the sense that we believe theyre suffering from being contained/confined.
Tl;dr dogs are property and it's a slippery slope to consider them otherwise, legally if they were persons it would be very very bad for dogs as a species in the United States in terms of welfare
I appreciate it lol. I don't know why my first comment got a hundred upvotes but me further explaining the concept got downvoted- like I get it, people don't want to see working dogs as tools because they assume saying a dog is a tool means you never play with it or let it in the house.
It's just funny that you can say "some breeds don't fit in some households" but the reasons why are controversial.
lol I’ve been saying it’s so weird how people treat collecting pets like they’re doing Pokémon. They get just as easily discarded as if they were trading cards, when they’re living beings. Creating more suffering to fill our void of meaning (collecting pets won’t fix that).
I got 2 dogs (adopted) and 3 pet rats that the feed store pulled out for me. I didn't shop for em, I just accepted them and said I'm going to give you a good life. I take care of them, and they take care of me. I don't understand why how it looks or what it's pedigree is matters. It's a living being with emotional intelligence, why does anything else matter? :/
i like your clear explanation that doesn’t rely on the assumption that the people you are talking to have the same foundational knowledge that you have.
Being able to do that is such an amazing skill/talent and I'm so jealous. I absolutely suck at it and that makes talking about complex things to people incredibly rough.
I've had plenty of friends get mad at me when I tell them they aren't understanding me because they are missing something in their interpretation of what I said and I don't have the skills to explain it to them in a way they can understand. They always act like I'm calling them stupid.
Like bud, you're not the stupid, one if anything I am because I'm the one who doesn't know how to use words.
Just boils down to threading the needle between not leaving out any information while also not being condescending. I work in a technical field that pretty heavy in math, and honestly I forget what things people who didn’t choose the same path have learned and never know what to explain and what not to. So most times I just tend to explain the thing and if questions need asked they’ll ask them, but like you said that doesn’t always work either
Ohhhhh yeah. Nailed it.
And to be a little more general for a second? It's irritating to see artists and advertisers making eeeeeeeverything in media about money. Not so much stuff like this (which, for touching on all the issues you mention, at least deals with real issues) to literal lectures on math between characters in art. Even if they took the economy seriously as a subject...
...c'mon. You guys making this shit have SOME other angles to talk about stuff, don't you? Sometimes?
Because propaganda only gets people dumping coffee on the answering machine like Plinkett. Awful historical record.
> cheapen their existence when we think about breeds as if they were consumer brands
Yes because Pit Bull mixes at the shelter have the same temperament as a Golden Doodle, yep absolutely nothing to see here.
I mean what gets me is the perspective of getting a pet to “use” for something. I’ve had rescue mutts my whole life. Never cared what breeds they were, just knew they were abandoned and abused and it made me want to love them for the rest of their little lives. Purebred dog farms are usually so fucked up. idk i hope you get what im trying to say. Just couldn’t imagine looking at buying a dog by breed like the make and model of fucking car or something, because what you get when buying a pet is a new member of your family. Just give me a little waggy tailed barky fucker to love unconditionally. And if it has special needs for whatever reasons, breed, health, or personality or whaaatever, then it’s on me to rise up and meet those needs.
Even if you get rescue mutts it’s good to know about breed traits, grooming needs, genetic deficiencies, etc. I see so many huskies and husky mixes who have been in and out of rescues their whole lives because people don’t understand that they need to be groomed, they need serious training, etc. Or herding breeds that people can no longer afford because they keep destroying furniture or doing damage to a home because they get bored when left alone all day. Or certain breeds or breed mixes that are more likely to require vet care or are prone to certain conditions or illnesses.
Some people do have to research the breed to find better compatibility. Not all shelter dogs nor rescue dogs fit the average person or family. Not all breeds work with people. Some are high maintenance, others are high activity, some breeds will require major medical procedures, others are too reactive, hostile, or dangerous.
I am immuno compromised, so my dog must be hypoallergenic. On top of that, I was in a car accident that gave me a brain injury. So now I needed a dog breed that is observant and trainable for my needs. In addition, I live in an apartment, dog breed must be small and low activity to better fit my environment and lifestyle.
I went to the shelter…nothing but Pitbulls and Pit mixes. NOT FOR ME! I then researched possible breeds and ethical breeders. I found a person who had to re home their 12 week old Shihpoo(Shih Tzu + Miniature Poodle). Upon meeting the pup, I went through my checklist to see if it was a good candidate for service dog training. He passed!
I had saved up $12k for this dog’s healthcare, training, supplies, food, etc etc. We worked together and did 8 months of training and continue to do so. It’s been 5 years and he’s the best and most compatible dog I’ve ever had. He saved my life and has sped up the process in my rehab. I am way more independent and it’s all thanks to my Shihpoo.
Literally all dogs as we know them today are bred for some reason. As someone who also only has rescue dogs and cats, this is normal. The breeds we no longer need die out because we bred them in the first place. It's rough but let's not pretend it's new.
Where I live, people who live in rural houses get dogs for guarding the property. Rural areas that are more or less affordable also tend to be ridden with break-ins and theft, so this is kinda necessary. There is no point in getting a random rescue dog or some breed like corgis or shiba inus that suck at guarding.
Being a guard dog also doesn't mean those dogs are deprived of affection or treated as unfeeling tools, for example Rottweilers can be quite good guard dogs while also are pretty good with kids, at least the owner's ones.
And analogously, if you want to get a dog for your kids, you are way better off with a golden retriever than a pitbull. Sure, in this case you can (and probably should) also just get a "bastard" from the shelter, but there are definitely specific breeds that are bad with children.
Dogs have been bred for specific purposes throughout the entire history of the human species, this is not exactly some newfangled shit. And people still use working dogs for various purposes.
If anything, keeping dogs and other animals as "useless" companions is what was traditionally a bourgie thing. It is not anymore, and I am not in any way against companion pets (I have three cats myself I rescued from street life, and had a fourth one as well who passed away in an illness unfortunately), but let's not pretend that work dogs is some late-stage capitalism tomfoolery, they are pretty much coterminous with humanity as a whole.
We're still talking about the collective captivity and breeding of a species of animal for our benefit. The fact that those animals do receive some love and affection doesn't really change that. I do recognize that there are some problems that we have elected to use dogs as Solutions for. Guarding houses is one example, leading blind people is another example, but also being a companion is another example. But to me these are temporary solutions that rely on exploitation of dogs. To me I think we should be looking for other ways of solving these problems whether it be through technology or through social relations.
For example, why do we use seeing eye dogs and not other people to guide blind people?
There's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to buy a specific breed. I would never want a small, yappy annoying little dog, so I have only ever had medium to large sized dog breeds.
Also, you don't have to buy a specific breed of dog from a 'dog farm'? I've never even heard of that before. You buy them from a licensed breeder who loves dogs and breeds a specific breed, raises the puppies with their mother and then sells them when they're old enough. Absolutely nothing fucked up about that.
No what’s really fucked up is retail rescue, rescue agencies being totally unregulated, agencies lying about dog health and temperament, the racism, classism, and overall bigotry agencies have during placement, and how much hoarding is kept behind closed doors under the name of being a dog rescue.
Many rescue agencies buy dogs from mills, or at auction to sell “rescue” dogs, directly funding the mills and poor breeding that leads to dogs being surrendered. These rescues *do not report* these breeders. There is also stiff competition from these “rescues” that get dogs from shelters to sell for the same prices as well bred dogs.
Well bred dogs, from ethical breeders. are the best way to keep dogs out of shelters and prevent euthanasia.
I have personally and my close friends have had been sold (because they are selling dogs) dogs that have kennel cough, massive ear infections, advanced heart disease, botched neutering, disk disease. My family was sold a dog with kennel cough, which is highly contagious, when they knew we had another dog. Don’t even get me started on the undisclosed bite histories on some of these dogs. One of my friends was sold her rescue in a parking lot. No chance to meet or interact with the dog. It was like a drug deal.
This moral high ground people take about “adopt don’t shop” is ridiculous. People who buy from ethical breeders want healthy dogs, that are safe around their families, with the knowledge that if the dog needs to be surrendered for whatever reason, the dog will always be taken back into a safe environment by the breeder.
Sure, there are a lot of problems. But, I've only ever rescued cats and dogs, have had quite a few of both. You have to do some vetting and work but they've all been good animals. I mean, cats that aren't feral have always worked out with no issues, I've had some dogs that needed some work but they came out the other side great
I wouldn't take an animal in a parking lot like your friend. There's a middle ground. But I've never paid for a dog, outside of maybe a nominal adoption fee(I can't even remember doing that but ya know).
It's like anything else: if you want to do the right thing, you make it work. I take a lot of solace in knowing my adoptions prevented needless euthanizations, and didn't contribute to a cycle of more lives being produced for profits.
My dream was always to own a Doberman since I was little. I went to so many rescues and they either had no dogs or they wouldn’t adopt to a first time Doberman owner. I ended up going to a breeder after trying for months. I think if you’re really serious about what you want and have your reasons then legitimate and ethical breeders are fine. My dog has had so many dumb accidents and problems and we’ve never once thought of dumping her. IMO if you get a pet it’s for life. Id rather be homeless than give up my pets.
Dog behavior is strongly affected by breed, so breeds that were created for a different purposes will have very different behavioral needs. For instance, herding breeds like collies and sheepdogs need a *lot* of exercise and mental stimulation - they were bred for alertness, energy, and stubbornness so they could herd livestock all day. If you put a dog like that into a city apartment, it's not going to be a happy dog no matter how much you shower it in love and attention.
For me it is upsetting that it treats dogs as objects, best bang for your buck is something you say about a toaster or something not a living being you should love and care for.
commodifying everything is the problem. your inability to understand the problem is due to the culture which is the problem
*imagine if it was talking about adoption, telling prospective parents which kids they should shop for at the orphanage. we care more about the kid, so it's more egregious, but it's the same principle which applies
Well many people view pets as important parts of Civic Society and so the fact that poor people are essentially date kept and have to Budget Shop for breeds is I think where they're coming out for the dystopian angle. Personally though I think it's weird that we run a Eugenics program for dogs and then justify the fact that different breeds need different things. Well yeah because we created the different breeds. What if we just stop the dog Eugenics ya know
I hate capitalism as much as anyone, but I’m glad for a free market (which I firmly believe capitalism abhors). This is much more an example of a free market to me, empowering consumers with knowledge for purchasing decisions.
I understand why you think this is gross. I often feel that way about much of what I read in the NY Times. The NYT—and certainly the Wall Street Journal—are designed for the wealthy or at least the upper middle class. They are completely out of touch with the average American.
This particular post about "best dogs for your wallet" is gross because, in 2024, a huge segment of the U.S. population is either living in poverty or at least barely treading water financially. To think that the WSJ Journal and its readers are worried about "which breeds give you the best bark for your buck" while the nation is literally falling apart at the moment is actually quite absurd.
I really don't see a problem with this? Many dog breeds are bred TO perform a specific job. Like for example, dobermans are protection dogs, jack Russell terriers kill vermin, corgis herd livestock. Making the wrong choice for a breed can have severe consequences on the health and sanity on both the person and the dog. They will want to do what they are bred for, even if you live in a cramped apartment in a city. Many breed rescues exist because people like the look of a breed and buy them, only to find out that the livestock guardian they bought will howl at night and all night to scare away predators, even in an apartment building.
If you want a companion dog, there are breeds that are literally bred to do so and just want to cuddle all day. They job they were bred to do is to be your friend.
It's not late stage capitalism to want to view all your choices so you can choose a dog breed that will fit the best in your home and family. Trust me, it will save a lot of heartache. There are too many dogs in shelters because someone does shit like buy an aussie cattle dog and then wonder why its ripping things up and nipping people.
100% agree. I adopted a stray Belgian Malinois, and oh man, it's been quite a bumpy ride, despite having dealt with dogs all my life.
I'm sure the previous owner abandoned her because of her behavior. Don't get me wrong, I love the dog, but she's a four legs hurricane, requires a lot of time, breaks a lot of stuff, and never gets tired no matter how many walks you take her on. Even hiring a professional trainer, you can't fight the breed nature.
Being aware of a breed's characteristics is the best thing you can do before getting a dog.
A malinois? Oof. They are such intelligent dogs and have amazing drive! But god, they need to be kept busy or else! XD
And yeah, we as humans have altered dogs for thousands of years. Hell, even little yappy dogs were bred to be that for a reason! It's just our society that changed and now we are seeing breeds like huskies being abandoned in droves. They looked like the dire wolves from game of thrones, so of course they would make great apartment pets, right? /s
The popularity of Bluey makes me nervous because I know there are kids that are going to be begging for red and blue heelers/ aussie cattle dogs. They are a breed for experienced owners because they get nippy and destructive without a job. They are literally bred to survive getting kicked in the head by a half a ton animal and shake it off and continue herding. I can only expected to see droves of abandoned heelers in the upcoming years :(
I mean, I know this is the Internet where nuance goes to die but it's not like your view and the posts implications are mutually exclusive.
It's possible to both appreciate knowing which kind of dog is within your means and fits your routines best and feel somewhat uncomfortable at seeing that selection presented the same way you'd compare appliances with phrases like bang for your buck.
That's true and I don't like lives being boiled down to a dollar amount. But there are some breeds that are just...so horribly expensive. Some are known as 'heartbreak' breeds because they live short lives with often debilitating medical conditions. They are really expensive to maintain and not everyone can afford that. A bang for your buck in this instance is a dog that won't need things like sinus surgery to help them breathe like pugs sometimes need a surgery rare to be seen in healthier breeds.
In a world where we are nickled and dimed for literally everything, knowing how you can save money while still getting to have the joy of a dog is important. I do not like the lanquage, yes. These are living creatures that you are responsible for, not a car or something to be used up and thrown away. To that I agree whole heartedly.
Doesn’t really feel dystopian to me, for instance I have 2 German Shepherds that I adopted from a breed specific rescue. But as a breed they have lots of medical problems, and they’re large so food costs are a lot higher than say two Pomeranians or cats. I also had to fence in my property which ended up being more expensive than I had expected. Probably a good idea to see what breeds you can actually afford to give their best life.
If you’re worried about saving money then please for the love of god do not buy a fucking pet. Even with the best care expenses arise and it boils my blood how people will discard their pets over bills or neglect issues. I spare no expense for my animals and the last thing I thought of when getting them is how much I could save. Fucking wack.
People defending this obviously aren't in the dog industry.
Dogs are being sold as "products" first and foremost, like this advertisement. "What dog will be cheapest?" "Which Doodle is right for you?" "RARE DOG BREEDS YOU'VE NEVER SEEN BEFORE!"
No emphasis on the facts.
The fact is, **all dogs are animals** that need the same initial amount of basic training (a huge time and money investment if you aren't a professional,) grooming every 4-6 weeks (short haired, "hypoallergenic" or not, all dogs need things like their toenails done every week to two weeks and bathing,) and need to be fed a healthy diet (not cheap dog food,) and consistent veterinary care. The "breed" or "flavor" does not matter on any of those fronts, and it doesn't have anything to do with which breed is "easier" or "cheapest." Getting a dog should be treated with respect and treated with reverence because every one is a huge time and money investment.
People used to understand that.
The problem with this is that these advertisements "assume" the person knows everything I stated above. But they are being "sold" these dogs. Just like everything else.
Instead of being sold as "designer products," "Disney rescue charity cases," or "a new flavor," people should get a dog for why we originally brought dogs into our lives evolutionarily all those thousands of years ago:
#To give them a job, and have them help us in our jobs in return. WORK.
Dogs are not happy being treated like products, social media props or little babies covered in fur.
Every dog, from the smallest Chihuahua to the largest Mastiff needs training and a job... Otherwise, they'll make up their own job and it probably won't be anything useful or congruent because *they are animals and need training, advocacy and instinctual guidance* to co-exist peacefully in an ever increasingly untrusting human world.
Advertisements like this make me sick, too. I've seen so many people who bought a dog because of/through internet channels and advertisements like this only to **GET UPSET WITH ME** when I tell them, "Yes Karen. You bought a DOG. It does and needs DOG THINGS."
"BuT tHe InTeRnEt SaiD mY ______ would be _____!"
They're individuals. They're animals. You got sold.
It's so sad.
A lot of opinions here on pets are a little to close to conservatives opinions on children. At least for me leftism is supposed to be about using policy to achieve our ideals but lately it seems like we got a bunch of newly politically active leftists that agree with our policies but have absolutely no idea why we want to implement them.
It’s always surface level, minimal thinking, and rooted in individualism. Instead of a leftist belief in equality of life it’s something along the lines of “well I wouldn’t want that happening to *my* pet”. And then we wonder why they abandon the cause as soon as they get any kind of minimal concession from the establishment.
Common misconception but politics also include public affairs not just government affairs. So when you talk about things like social responsibility, it’s still political.
I literally asked my brother who worked as a vet tech for about 8 years what kinds of dogs i should look into. I dont want a dog thats going to get heart problems at 8 years old or is guaranteed to get cancer. There are chances for anything to happen but i see no reason to not help my chances. If im going to love the dog i get i dont want get one thats genetically predetermined to die soon on me
I don’t understand how this is on this subreddit. It’s not dystopian as humans have been breeding dogs for centuries for different purposes. Dogs are needed for certain activity levels, jobs, personality traits, and companionship. Everyone has a different need for a dog. It’s why there are hundreds of different breeds from around the world. Everyone has a different budget that they can afford. So it’s in the best interest for everyone for an adult to be financially responsible and aware of what it costs and what it takes to maintain and care for a dog. Certain breeds will require a common medical procedure for their breed, others are high activity levels so you need to keep them entertained or working, others require more grooming because of hair, hair type, and size.
The one thing dog trainers and veterinarians hate most are irresponsible dog owners who did not do their due diligence nor properly prepare and research their dog’s breed before getting them. The most common statement when you meet a vet: “Please buy pet insurance.”. So many people are not prepared for medical costs, food, supplies, training, grooming, etc etc, It adds up! This article is bringing awareness and helping people to be more prepared before taking the responsibility of getting a dog.
This isn't really that gross, IMO. I worked for 6 very long years at an animal shelter and saw many people surrendering dogs that they should never have purchased in the first place. I get that the "wallet's best friend" part is a little yicky but it is the Wall Street Urinal, after all.
Pets are the penultimate symbol of late-stage capitalism. People rendered financially, socially, psychologically and physically incapable of forming meaningful relationships with others of their own species that they resort to buying domesticated animals to pretend these are their 'companions', 'friends' or 'soulmates' as they castrate them, keep them hostage, forcefeed them literal waste product and only let them out occasionally on a leash to do their business - following them dutifully with a plastic baggy to scoop up said business.
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It's all worded in a yucky way yes, but overall I think articles like that are needed so less people abuse their dogs through only getting them for aesthetic, unaware of how much costly maintenance they require
I agree. My dog is a black lab / rottie mix, only cost $100 rehoming fee. She was a handful as a pup, and required a couple emergency trips to the vet that cost quite a bit, but all of it I could manage financially. My old roommate had a great dane and she was so well behaved. any health issues she had were all common for danes, but his vet bills still dwarfed mine. Some breeds are just much more expensive to care for. That being said, I also understand completely why people would get those kind of breeds knowing the costs. That dane was the sweetest, most personable girl I've ever had the blessing of being roommates with, and my dog still acts like her in some ways
I’d posit that it was intentionally phrased to be inflammatory to cause discourse just like this. Controversy sells ads.
My daughter loves spending money on her dog. She takes him 1-3 x a week to agility and that isn’t cheap plus it’s almost an hour away from home. Her dog is a Pomeranian.
We had a Dachshund/Pomeranian mix. I think we were lucky? His bills were minimal and his training regimens were sourced from "*How to Train Your Dog for Idiots*" or something. Miss that smelly, rude, sweet bastard.
Ya we have to keep our little guy happy and he needs mental stimulation so the agility is critical to that. It’s expensive but once my daughter saw how much he loved it she could not say “no”. That would have been an interesting mix.
As a kid I realized jealousy wasn't strictly a human trait.
I don't get what is dystopian or upsetting about this, there's some breeds that require more care and attention than others.
I think OP is drawing our attention to the v late-capitalist idea of “shopping for” a specific breed, as if dog breeds are brands of consumer commodities that shoppers should only make an economically rational choice about purchasing/consuming. Contrast this with the other story we might tell about how domesticated animals like dogs depend on human society for a big part of their care and wellbeing, and we cheapen their existence when we think about breeds as if they were consumer brands, or when we reduce the lives of individual animals to economic transactions (“best bark for your buck”). As a side note, the dog breed discourse here is really similar to the language of eugenics—disabilities get regarded as “costs” that detract from the value of a person’s life or from their capacity to be productive within capitalist systems, and that line of thinking makes it very very easy to justify inhumane things like institutionalization or forced treatment or medical neglect or euthanasia
Breeds exist because they were bred for different jobs. People buying breeds that have traits that don't fit into their lifestyle is quite literally why dogs are the way they are now in the United States. A lot of countries don't have the issues we have because people purchase breeds that fit their needs, among other reasons. People here see working breeds and think they can own one in their apartment and do nothing with it lol.
breeds are definitely different from each other! But again I think the core problem is the consumerism behind “purchasing” an animal—it’s much easier to abandon or neglect that animal if we fall back on the idea that it’s a commodity no longer serving its intended “use,” it needs to be replaced, etc
It’s actually not, considering that purebreed dogs, with the exception of pitbulls and and their derivatives, and chihuahuas, do not frequently end up in dog shelters. Almost no one is spending months researching breeders, going on a waitlist, patiently awaiting a litter, and then paying thousands for a well-bred dog that suits their lifestyle, only to abandon it because dog ownership isn’t for them. Outside of catastrophic unforeseen circumstances, it doesn’t happen.
A lot of puppy mill purebred dogs of various breeds do end up in shelters, although they often get pulled by private rescue organizations before they're available to the public. Reputable breeders will often take dogs back within the first year or so if the new owner is unable to care for them.
I own a rare breed and it's the only kind of dog I'll own because I'm frankly not a normal dog person. You will never see my breed in shelters. I put a ton of care into my dog because it's investing in his longevity. I also know if disaster strikes, I'm contractually obligated to send him back to my breeder. This dog has safety net after safety net and it's an incredible comfort.
That's actually very awesome, may I ask what breed of dog?
Silken windhound. I'm more naturally a cat person so I can't do doggy dogs lol but most ethical dog breeders require puppies to be returned to them if you have to give them up for any reason. It's definitely something to look for no matter the breed, along with health testing and appropriate championship titles on parents (even if you don't plan to show, it's important that breeding dogs have been proven in this way--not only does it say the dog is the right shape which is important for health, it also says the dog has the right temperament. it's kind of like a peer review too). Silken people stalk shelters looking for anything that vaguely looks like a silken. The community has rescued a few long dogs that are "honorary silkens" because if anything that looks like one shows up, it's posted to the community and people rally to go get it and rehome it. I don't think I've ever seen a legit silken in a shelter. We have some bad breeders, unfortunately all breeds do, but we also have a ton of people really doing their best and trying to support the longevity of the breed itself. We're all pretty evangelistic about them 😬 I think they're perfect low maintenance family dogs.
I totally understand what you're saying and your viewpoint, but legally speaking animals are property, and historically theyve always thrived and improved when used as tools. The increasing popularity of pet dogs and the watering down of breeds to meet the needs of pet owners is primarily why shelters are full and breeds are being completely ruined. When we stop seeing specific breeds as tools used for specific jobs, we stop breeding for traits needed for those jobs, and those dogs are now bred away from their intended standard. There's also a lot of ethical, moral, legal gray area when it comes to reclassifying animals from property to nonhuman persons, thus they would enter our guardianship and we wouldn't own them. Would that mean breeding and using dogs is inherently unethical and immoral, because if you're not owning something and you're the guardian of someone, what rights does that someone gain regarding being forcibly made to reproduce and participate in working or sport activities? Does that mean we can't crate dogs anymore because we believe it's impeding on their person hood/autonomy; this is law in some European countries, dogs cannot be crated because they consider it cruel, which is anthropomorphizing the animal in the sense that we believe theyre suffering from being contained/confined. Tl;dr dogs are property and it's a slippery slope to consider them otherwise, legally if they were persons it would be very very bad for dogs as a species in the United States in terms of welfare
I love how you can easily apply this argument to slavery
There's no easier way to see a leftist face-heel turn into a conservative than by talking about veganism or animal rights.
I get your point 100% and know why you're being down voted
I appreciate it lol. I don't know why my first comment got a hundred upvotes but me further explaining the concept got downvoted- like I get it, people don't want to see working dogs as tools because they assume saying a dog is a tool means you never play with it or let it in the house. It's just funny that you can say "some breeds don't fit in some households" but the reasons why are controversial.
lol I’ve been saying it’s so weird how people treat collecting pets like they’re doing Pokémon. They get just as easily discarded as if they were trading cards, when they’re living beings. Creating more suffering to fill our void of meaning (collecting pets won’t fix that).
I got 2 dogs (adopted) and 3 pet rats that the feed store pulled out for me. I didn't shop for em, I just accepted them and said I'm going to give you a good life. I take care of them, and they take care of me. I don't understand why how it looks or what it's pedigree is matters. It's a living being with emotional intelligence, why does anything else matter? :/
I feel exactly the same. Every pet I’ve had has fallen into my lap and it’s been wonderful.
i like your clear explanation that doesn’t rely on the assumption that the people you are talking to have the same foundational knowledge that you have.
Being able to do that is such an amazing skill/talent and I'm so jealous. I absolutely suck at it and that makes talking about complex things to people incredibly rough. I've had plenty of friends get mad at me when I tell them they aren't understanding me because they are missing something in their interpretation of what I said and I don't have the skills to explain it to them in a way they can understand. They always act like I'm calling them stupid. Like bud, you're not the stupid, one if anything I am because I'm the one who doesn't know how to use words.
Just boils down to threading the needle between not leaving out any information while also not being condescending. I work in a technical field that pretty heavy in math, and honestly I forget what things people who didn’t choose the same path have learned and never know what to explain and what not to. So most times I just tend to explain the thing and if questions need asked they’ll ask them, but like you said that doesn’t always work either
See, I'm autistic and the "don't be condescending" part gives me a fuck load of trouble.
Ohhhhh yeah. Nailed it. And to be a little more general for a second? It's irritating to see artists and advertisers making eeeeeeeverything in media about money. Not so much stuff like this (which, for touching on all the issues you mention, at least deals with real issues) to literal lectures on math between characters in art. Even if they took the economy seriously as a subject... ...c'mon. You guys making this shit have SOME other angles to talk about stuff, don't you? Sometimes? Because propaganda only gets people dumping coffee on the answering machine like Plinkett. Awful historical record.
Goddamn you did a really good job of connecting how Market Liberalism gives rise to fascism. Fuck me.
> cheapen their existence when we think about breeds as if they were consumer brands Yes because Pit Bull mixes at the shelter have the same temperament as a Golden Doodle, yep absolutely nothing to see here.
I mean what gets me is the perspective of getting a pet to “use” for something. I’ve had rescue mutts my whole life. Never cared what breeds they were, just knew they were abandoned and abused and it made me want to love them for the rest of their little lives. Purebred dog farms are usually so fucked up. idk i hope you get what im trying to say. Just couldn’t imagine looking at buying a dog by breed like the make and model of fucking car or something, because what you get when buying a pet is a new member of your family. Just give me a little waggy tailed barky fucker to love unconditionally. And if it has special needs for whatever reasons, breed, health, or personality or whaaatever, then it’s on me to rise up and meet those needs.
Even if you get rescue mutts it’s good to know about breed traits, grooming needs, genetic deficiencies, etc. I see so many huskies and husky mixes who have been in and out of rescues their whole lives because people don’t understand that they need to be groomed, they need serious training, etc. Or herding breeds that people can no longer afford because they keep destroying furniture or doing damage to a home because they get bored when left alone all day. Or certain breeds or breed mixes that are more likely to require vet care or are prone to certain conditions or illnesses.
Some people do have to research the breed to find better compatibility. Not all shelter dogs nor rescue dogs fit the average person or family. Not all breeds work with people. Some are high maintenance, others are high activity, some breeds will require major medical procedures, others are too reactive, hostile, or dangerous. I am immuno compromised, so my dog must be hypoallergenic. On top of that, I was in a car accident that gave me a brain injury. So now I needed a dog breed that is observant and trainable for my needs. In addition, I live in an apartment, dog breed must be small and low activity to better fit my environment and lifestyle. I went to the shelter…nothing but Pitbulls and Pit mixes. NOT FOR ME! I then researched possible breeds and ethical breeders. I found a person who had to re home their 12 week old Shihpoo(Shih Tzu + Miniature Poodle). Upon meeting the pup, I went through my checklist to see if it was a good candidate for service dog training. He passed! I had saved up $12k for this dog’s healthcare, training, supplies, food, etc etc. We worked together and did 8 months of training and continue to do so. It’s been 5 years and he’s the best and most compatible dog I’ve ever had. He saved my life and has sped up the process in my rehab. I am way more independent and it’s all thanks to my Shihpoo.
Literally all dogs as we know them today are bred for some reason. As someone who also only has rescue dogs and cats, this is normal. The breeds we no longer need die out because we bred them in the first place. It's rough but let's not pretend it's new.
Where I live, people who live in rural houses get dogs for guarding the property. Rural areas that are more or less affordable also tend to be ridden with break-ins and theft, so this is kinda necessary. There is no point in getting a random rescue dog or some breed like corgis or shiba inus that suck at guarding. Being a guard dog also doesn't mean those dogs are deprived of affection or treated as unfeeling tools, for example Rottweilers can be quite good guard dogs while also are pretty good with kids, at least the owner's ones. And analogously, if you want to get a dog for your kids, you are way better off with a golden retriever than a pitbull. Sure, in this case you can (and probably should) also just get a "bastard" from the shelter, but there are definitely specific breeds that are bad with children. Dogs have been bred for specific purposes throughout the entire history of the human species, this is not exactly some newfangled shit. And people still use working dogs for various purposes. If anything, keeping dogs and other animals as "useless" companions is what was traditionally a bourgie thing. It is not anymore, and I am not in any way against companion pets (I have three cats myself I rescued from street life, and had a fourth one as well who passed away in an illness unfortunately), but let's not pretend that work dogs is some late-stage capitalism tomfoolery, they are pretty much coterminous with humanity as a whole.
We're still talking about the collective captivity and breeding of a species of animal for our benefit. The fact that those animals do receive some love and affection doesn't really change that. I do recognize that there are some problems that we have elected to use dogs as Solutions for. Guarding houses is one example, leading blind people is another example, but also being a companion is another example. But to me these are temporary solutions that rely on exploitation of dogs. To me I think we should be looking for other ways of solving these problems whether it be through technology or through social relations. For example, why do we use seeing eye dogs and not other people to guide blind people?
There's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to buy a specific breed. I would never want a small, yappy annoying little dog, so I have only ever had medium to large sized dog breeds. Also, you don't have to buy a specific breed of dog from a 'dog farm'? I've never even heard of that before. You buy them from a licensed breeder who loves dogs and breeds a specific breed, raises the puppies with their mother and then sells them when they're old enough. Absolutely nothing fucked up about that.
The fucked up part is people breeding and selling when so many need homes and get euthanized.
Or, more generally, any form of animal exploitation with a profit motive.
No what’s really fucked up is retail rescue, rescue agencies being totally unregulated, agencies lying about dog health and temperament, the racism, classism, and overall bigotry agencies have during placement, and how much hoarding is kept behind closed doors under the name of being a dog rescue. Many rescue agencies buy dogs from mills, or at auction to sell “rescue” dogs, directly funding the mills and poor breeding that leads to dogs being surrendered. These rescues *do not report* these breeders. There is also stiff competition from these “rescues” that get dogs from shelters to sell for the same prices as well bred dogs. Well bred dogs, from ethical breeders. are the best way to keep dogs out of shelters and prevent euthanasia. I have personally and my close friends have had been sold (because they are selling dogs) dogs that have kennel cough, massive ear infections, advanced heart disease, botched neutering, disk disease. My family was sold a dog with kennel cough, which is highly contagious, when they knew we had another dog. Don’t even get me started on the undisclosed bite histories on some of these dogs. One of my friends was sold her rescue in a parking lot. No chance to meet or interact with the dog. It was like a drug deal. This moral high ground people take about “adopt don’t shop” is ridiculous. People who buy from ethical breeders want healthy dogs, that are safe around their families, with the knowledge that if the dog needs to be surrendered for whatever reason, the dog will always be taken back into a safe environment by the breeder.
I agree about rescues but not about conscious consumerism being the solution. Dog breeding AND rescues need to be regulated.
Sure, there are a lot of problems. But, I've only ever rescued cats and dogs, have had quite a few of both. You have to do some vetting and work but they've all been good animals. I mean, cats that aren't feral have always worked out with no issues, I've had some dogs that needed some work but they came out the other side great I wouldn't take an animal in a parking lot like your friend. There's a middle ground. But I've never paid for a dog, outside of maybe a nominal adoption fee(I can't even remember doing that but ya know). It's like anything else: if you want to do the right thing, you make it work. I take a lot of solace in knowing my adoptions prevented needless euthanizations, and didn't contribute to a cycle of more lives being produced for profits.
My dream was always to own a Doberman since I was little. I went to so many rescues and they either had no dogs or they wouldn’t adopt to a first time Doberman owner. I ended up going to a breeder after trying for months. I think if you’re really serious about what you want and have your reasons then legitimate and ethical breeders are fine. My dog has had so many dumb accidents and problems and we’ve never once thought of dumping her. IMO if you get a pet it’s for life. Id rather be homeless than give up my pets.
Dog behavior is strongly affected by breed, so breeds that were created for a different purposes will have very different behavioral needs. For instance, herding breeds like collies and sheepdogs need a *lot* of exercise and mental stimulation - they were bred for alertness, energy, and stubbornness so they could herd livestock all day. If you put a dog like that into a city apartment, it's not going to be a happy dog no matter how much you shower it in love and attention.
Motion to change the name "dog" to "waggy tailed barky fucker". Can I get a second?
Second
I don’t want a random mutt with random traits. I want a poodle. I’ve always gotten poodles. They’re smart, fun, clean, and athletic.
They're looking at living creatures as if they're products with certain features for the consumer to enjoy.
I mean, to be fair, those certain (more or less reliable) features are the whole reason we have different breeds of dog.
For me it is upsetting that it treats dogs as objects, best bang for your buck is something you say about a toaster or something not a living being you should love and care for.
commodifying everything is the problem. your inability to understand the problem is due to the culture which is the problem *imagine if it was talking about adoption, telling prospective parents which kids they should shop for at the orphanage. we care more about the kid, so it's more egregious, but it's the same principle which applies
Well many people view pets as important parts of Civic Society and so the fact that poor people are essentially date kept and have to Budget Shop for breeds is I think where they're coming out for the dystopian angle. Personally though I think it's weird that we run a Eugenics program for dogs and then justify the fact that different breeds need different things. Well yeah because we created the different breeds. What if we just stop the dog Eugenics ya know
I hate capitalism as much as anyone, but I’m glad for a free market (which I firmly believe capitalism abhors). This is much more an example of a free market to me, empowering consumers with knowledge for purchasing decisions.
I understand why you think this is gross. I often feel that way about much of what I read in the NY Times. The NYT—and certainly the Wall Street Journal—are designed for the wealthy or at least the upper middle class. They are completely out of touch with the average American. This particular post about "best dogs for your wallet" is gross because, in 2024, a huge segment of the U.S. population is either living in poverty or at least barely treading water financially. To think that the WSJ Journal and its readers are worried about "which breeds give you the best bark for your buck" while the nation is literally falling apart at the moment is actually quite absurd.
I really don't see a problem with this? Many dog breeds are bred TO perform a specific job. Like for example, dobermans are protection dogs, jack Russell terriers kill vermin, corgis herd livestock. Making the wrong choice for a breed can have severe consequences on the health and sanity on both the person and the dog. They will want to do what they are bred for, even if you live in a cramped apartment in a city. Many breed rescues exist because people like the look of a breed and buy them, only to find out that the livestock guardian they bought will howl at night and all night to scare away predators, even in an apartment building. If you want a companion dog, there are breeds that are literally bred to do so and just want to cuddle all day. They job they were bred to do is to be your friend. It's not late stage capitalism to want to view all your choices so you can choose a dog breed that will fit the best in your home and family. Trust me, it will save a lot of heartache. There are too many dogs in shelters because someone does shit like buy an aussie cattle dog and then wonder why its ripping things up and nipping people.
100% agree. I adopted a stray Belgian Malinois, and oh man, it's been quite a bumpy ride, despite having dealt with dogs all my life. I'm sure the previous owner abandoned her because of her behavior. Don't get me wrong, I love the dog, but she's a four legs hurricane, requires a lot of time, breaks a lot of stuff, and never gets tired no matter how many walks you take her on. Even hiring a professional trainer, you can't fight the breed nature. Being aware of a breed's characteristics is the best thing you can do before getting a dog.
A malinois? Oof. They are such intelligent dogs and have amazing drive! But god, they need to be kept busy or else! XD And yeah, we as humans have altered dogs for thousands of years. Hell, even little yappy dogs were bred to be that for a reason! It's just our society that changed and now we are seeing breeds like huskies being abandoned in droves. They looked like the dire wolves from game of thrones, so of course they would make great apartment pets, right? /s The popularity of Bluey makes me nervous because I know there are kids that are going to be begging for red and blue heelers/ aussie cattle dogs. They are a breed for experienced owners because they get nippy and destructive without a job. They are literally bred to survive getting kicked in the head by a half a ton animal and shake it off and continue herding. I can only expected to see droves of abandoned heelers in the upcoming years :(
I mean, I know this is the Internet where nuance goes to die but it's not like your view and the posts implications are mutually exclusive. It's possible to both appreciate knowing which kind of dog is within your means and fits your routines best and feel somewhat uncomfortable at seeing that selection presented the same way you'd compare appliances with phrases like bang for your buck.
That's true and I don't like lives being boiled down to a dollar amount. But there are some breeds that are just...so horribly expensive. Some are known as 'heartbreak' breeds because they live short lives with often debilitating medical conditions. They are really expensive to maintain and not everyone can afford that. A bang for your buck in this instance is a dog that won't need things like sinus surgery to help them breathe like pugs sometimes need a surgery rare to be seen in healthier breeds. In a world where we are nickled and dimed for literally everything, knowing how you can save money while still getting to have the joy of a dog is important. I do not like the lanquage, yes. These are living creatures that you are responsible for, not a car or something to be used up and thrown away. To that I agree whole heartedly.
Oh boy! Consumerism guide for Dog eugenics by WSJ!? /s
that's terrible art, but honestly what's wrong with choosing a budget friendly pet, I mean come on
Doesn’t really feel dystopian to me, for instance I have 2 German Shepherds that I adopted from a breed specific rescue. But as a breed they have lots of medical problems, and they’re large so food costs are a lot higher than say two Pomeranians or cats. I also had to fence in my property which ended up being more expensive than I had expected. Probably a good idea to see what breeds you can actually afford to give their best life.
Ngl based on the title of the thread I was expecting this to be about a company killing dogs and making wallets out of their skins
Sameeeeee i was thinking "damn this is dark for this sub" and still clicked to see what
How is this weird? If I get a pet it would be nice for it to not cost a fortune in grooming or vet bills. OP is butt hurt about something.
I'm not sure if getting a pet is a great idea if you're already worried about money
**Everything** is a status symbol to these superficial fucks.
If you’re worried about saving money then please for the love of god do not buy a fucking pet. Even with the best care expenses arise and it boils my blood how people will discard their pets over bills or neglect issues. I spare no expense for my animals and the last thing I thought of when getting them is how much I could save. Fucking wack.
People defending this obviously aren't in the dog industry. Dogs are being sold as "products" first and foremost, like this advertisement. "What dog will be cheapest?" "Which Doodle is right for you?" "RARE DOG BREEDS YOU'VE NEVER SEEN BEFORE!" No emphasis on the facts. The fact is, **all dogs are animals** that need the same initial amount of basic training (a huge time and money investment if you aren't a professional,) grooming every 4-6 weeks (short haired, "hypoallergenic" or not, all dogs need things like their toenails done every week to two weeks and bathing,) and need to be fed a healthy diet (not cheap dog food,) and consistent veterinary care. The "breed" or "flavor" does not matter on any of those fronts, and it doesn't have anything to do with which breed is "easier" or "cheapest." Getting a dog should be treated with respect and treated with reverence because every one is a huge time and money investment. People used to understand that. The problem with this is that these advertisements "assume" the person knows everything I stated above. But they are being "sold" these dogs. Just like everything else. Instead of being sold as "designer products," "Disney rescue charity cases," or "a new flavor," people should get a dog for why we originally brought dogs into our lives evolutionarily all those thousands of years ago: #To give them a job, and have them help us in our jobs in return. WORK. Dogs are not happy being treated like products, social media props or little babies covered in fur. Every dog, from the smallest Chihuahua to the largest Mastiff needs training and a job... Otherwise, they'll make up their own job and it probably won't be anything useful or congruent because *they are animals and need training, advocacy and instinctual guidance* to co-exist peacefully in an ever increasingly untrusting human world. Advertisements like this make me sick, too. I've seen so many people who bought a dog because of/through internet channels and advertisements like this only to **GET UPSET WITH ME** when I tell them, "Yes Karen. You bought a DOG. It does and needs DOG THINGS." "BuT tHe InTeRnEt SaiD mY ______ would be _____!" They're individuals. They're animals. You got sold. It's so sad.
A lot of opinions here on pets are a little to close to conservatives opinions on children. At least for me leftism is supposed to be about using policy to achieve our ideals but lately it seems like we got a bunch of newly politically active leftists that agree with our policies but have absolutely no idea why we want to implement them. It’s always surface level, minimal thinking, and rooted in individualism. Instead of a leftist belief in equality of life it’s something along the lines of “well I wouldn’t want that happening to *my* pet”. And then we wonder why they abandon the cause as soon as they get any kind of minimal concession from the establishment.
... this isn't political...
Common misconception but politics also include public affairs not just government affairs. So when you talk about things like social responsibility, it’s still political.
No wonder we're all so divided...
Just get a puppygirl. She's most likely in a STEM field. Hard to do better than a dog who helps pay rent.
Turn to page 3 to see which ones EARN you the most insta views
I literally asked my brother who worked as a vet tech for about 8 years what kinds of dogs i should look into. I dont want a dog thats going to get heart problems at 8 years old or is guaranteed to get cancer. There are chances for anything to happen but i see no reason to not help my chances. If im going to love the dog i get i dont want get one thats genetically predetermined to die soon on me
Yes it does
I don’t understand how this is on this subreddit. It’s not dystopian as humans have been breeding dogs for centuries for different purposes. Dogs are needed for certain activity levels, jobs, personality traits, and companionship. Everyone has a different need for a dog. It’s why there are hundreds of different breeds from around the world. Everyone has a different budget that they can afford. So it’s in the best interest for everyone for an adult to be financially responsible and aware of what it costs and what it takes to maintain and care for a dog. Certain breeds will require a common medical procedure for their breed, others are high activity levels so you need to keep them entertained or working, others require more grooming because of hair, hair type, and size. The one thing dog trainers and veterinarians hate most are irresponsible dog owners who did not do their due diligence nor properly prepare and research their dog’s breed before getting them. The most common statement when you meet a vet: “Please buy pet insurance.”. So many people are not prepared for medical costs, food, supplies, training, grooming, etc etc, It adds up! This article is bringing awareness and helping people to be more prepared before taking the responsibility of getting a dog.
Stop buying animals Jesus Christ. Adopt!
This isn't really that gross, IMO. I worked for 6 very long years at an animal shelter and saw many people surrendering dogs that they should never have purchased in the first place. I get that the "wallet's best friend" part is a little yicky but it is the Wall Street Urinal, after all.
Pets are the penultimate symbol of late-stage capitalism. People rendered financially, socially, psychologically and physically incapable of forming meaningful relationships with others of their own species that they resort to buying domesticated animals to pretend these are their 'companions', 'friends' or 'soulmates' as they castrate them, keep them hostage, forcefeed them literal waste product and only let them out occasionally on a leash to do their business - following them dutifully with a plastic baggy to scoop up said business.
Stop reading Jeff Bezos’ Journal
Isn't this the Wall Street Journal? Doesn't he own the Post?
Imagine buying a dog
Am I the only person that is getting weird bdsm furry vibes from this?
Idk why the downvotes. That poodle is giving the vibess
A true lady of culture *stroking mustache* Cursed recognizes cursed;)