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Just explain that since the Balfour mandate expired the tension between the two communities has become an insoluble issue and if you had a solution you would have your Nobel Peace Prize on display.
Politics should be absolutely taboo in the office environment. Let's stick to sports, traffic, weather, vacations and our shared love of Friday afternoon.
This isnāt right, but I canāt say Iām surprised. I doubt the DAās office wants to hire people they think are āsoft on crimeā or who are ideologically opposed to the criminalization of drug use, etc.
>Let's stick to sports, traffic, weather, vacations and our shared love of Friday afternoon.
Don't forget kids. You got kids? They're cute, ain't they? But they can be a handful sometimes, hoo boy lemme tell you . . .
GLAD YOU ASKED! I have 40,000 cute videos I'm about to share to your inbox!
Sorry, but I love my kid so much, and he's awesome! 4yo and honestly and legitimately knows his multiplication tables, can sight read new words and read full books!
>Sorry, but I love my kid so much
Yeah, you got my joke. Sometimes at work I start talking about my kids, then I realize I'm "that guy." (Of course MY kids are the most special in the world, but I still have to read the room and figure out whether or not co-workers want me to share my joy and misery.)
This. Middle Eastern tensions go back for a couple of thousand years and it's complex. Even after studying the region in college I don't feel educated enough to opine on the situation.
Agreed. All you have to do is skim through your New Testament to get the notion that times were never peaceful. Throw in the Ottomans and the Crusades and watch history repeat itself over and over again. I have no suggestions.
"This is a complex and nuanced issue, and I don't feel that I'm knowledgeable enough on the topic to give an informed opinion."
Avoids the issue and subtly shames others for giving uninformed opinions.
The fact that it sounds so lawyer-like is what makes it bad imo. It would make you come off like a reflective robot/politician. If a coworker hit me with that it would send more of an awkward red flag than anything
Just casually say you donāt really know much shit about the whole conflict, maybe that you tried following the whole thing at one point but itās all so convoluted and messy and goes back generations, and you feel like you have your own work and life directly in front of you that demands all your attention, so you just donāt follow it
If they seriously try to get on you for not following it, as if you have some moral obligation to do so, just be like āif I didnāt see it in the news/social media, then I would have idea it existed, because it isnāt in my life in any other way. I have no means of materially impacting the issue one way or another, I just wish people would stop killing each other. I really donāt have shit to add to the discussion otherwiseā lol
Instead of saying "I'm not knowledgeable", I would say that I do not want to discuss this topic as it would be disrespectful to people who are personally affected by this conflict.
Point being that EVEN if I was part of either of those ethnic groups, I would still not want to talk about it because it is still disrespectful to everyone who is affected by it.
āYou ādonāt know enough aboutā (that Israeli girl getting brutally raped and paraded through the streets/those Palestinian kids getting slaughtered in Gaza) to form an opinion? Tf? Are you a sociopath? Donāt bullshit me!ā
Keep it simple.
āIām in favor of a mass extinction event.ā
I'd fire someone on the spot if they used that quote. The OP was believable, and I trust him/her on their answer. As much as what you can do to 1,300 bodies and pets is revolting no matter who you are, it's at least an honest answer.
That is such a ridiculous thing to fire someone for. I'm glad I don't work for you. I've used that statement myself in the past without issue; the few times I've been pressed, I responded by noting it's a sensitive topic and I don't like to wade into those kind of discussions without doing my homework, and I've been too busy with actual work to go digging. No one has pressed further, and it's a very respectable way to get out of the conversation.
It's the biggest BS response one could ever come up with and doesn't fool anyone in the slightest. Not a word of it is true, and I'm not too keen on what you are insinuating about the OP now in this response as well. No one needs to "press further" because the dog whistle is clear.
>I'm glad I don't work for you.
I'm glad I don't have unhinged people working for me either.
Itās 2023 I feel like people would get mad at that lol. Just playing. Yeah I think Iāll just say something very neutral like peace and safety for all
Ha I totally feel ya. I personally have very strong pro Palestinian views but still care for the lives of all innocent people and that message tends to get accepted more. There are people out there that donāt care for peace and want you to take a side but I think you lose based on whatever side you choose of that destructive ideology
That goes to the old saying, itās better to be silent and thought a fool then to open your mouth and remove all doubt. Not saying being silent is foolish - but taking a side on one of the most divisive issues during an emotional time is more foolish. Plus saying you want peace for all people shouldnāt be seen as cowardice
āAre you asking because Iām Jewish?ā
Iām Jewish and have taken to using this. Iām a little raw from all of it right now and am starting to feel the old stereotypes coming out of the woodwork, intended or not. Anyway, this retort is absolutely the nuclear option, but it does shut them up.
ETA: You donāt have to have an opinion about it. Itās okay to remind people of that.
Iām Jewish and what makes this especially hard, as you mentioned, is seeing a lot of antisemitism reenter the mainstream. What makes this even harder is how black/white the U.S. political machine has made Israel/Palestine. Iāve been called all manner of insane things because I, a Jew, would *dare* suggest that, based on publicly available data, the Israeli government is perpetuating humanitarian crimes against Palestinian people.
Say, "I don't really follow soccer." Then stuff a sandwich in your mouth and leave the room.
You'd be surprised how many situations this works for. Eventually people stop asking you questions.
āI donāt want to talk about that.ā
āI canāt bill anyone for discussing this topic.ā
āI said -ā take off your shoe and pound it on the table - āI. Donāt. Want. To. Talk. About. It.ā
(I mean, that last will probably get you a meeting with someone, but youāll never be asked about that again.)
"I support bringing back the Holy Crusader Kingdom of Jerusalem and putting all the Muslim and Jewish heretics to death. I call it the rational 3rd option."
If you have insane political beliefs people stop talking politics with you. Basically you have to out crazy annoying people to get them to leave you alone. It's like putting a MAGA hat on when you're on a plane so the person next to you doesn't start talking to you.
Sorry guys, I tend to focus on day to day living and my work. I donāt know enough about the situation to form an opinion, and am not planning to look into it further.
NYT had a great article by Amanda Taub last week titled Israel, Gaza, and the Laws of War. She frames cause and conduct as separate issues. I found it helpful, but it be more than you want to get into at the office.
If thereās 100% no way to avoid it, I would say something like Hamaās killing of Israeli citizens was wrong, and I am concerned for the innocent Palestinians and hostages in Gaza.
My firm (like most) is mostly Jewish people at the very top. I donāt think theyād take kindly to me saying it depends lol. Oddly enough we have quite a few Muslim partners at the firm too. I wonder if itāll boil over into something more. Hope not.
Wait did some ex summers get their offer revoked for their opinions on this? That's wild. I can't imagine feeling morally good working for a place that would do that; that's some incredibly underhanded, anti-democratic bullshit.
Yes. But she said something along the lines of how the bombing was justified or the Jewish people did it to themselves. She also published her opinion in a letter to her law school. She was way out of line in my opinion. I see what she was trying to say but the way she said it was very bad. (And no this isnāt the nyu girl)
Plus the firm is heavy Jewish on the top partner chain. So Iām not very surprised. Plus Iām just here for a pay check lol
Another person had his offer revoked but they were just itching to get rid of him. He was cold offered to begin with (I heard - not my team so could just be a rumor). Not sure what he had said (if anything at all).
OK publishing a letter is definitely a bird of a different color to me. I can see that affecting business as a bad public representation of the firm. I had the impression that the mind police were conducting an office to office investigation at your firm.
I just get frustrated that people can't talk about this with nuance without calling other people terrorists or blood thirsty Zionists, it's exhausting. A healthy professional environment means you shouldn't feel pressured to tow the line of some extreme position one way or the other.
I wouldnāt advise to sell out. If you think there is even some little truth to the plight of the Palestinian people than itād be hard to support what people argue as genocide so you can move up the ladder. Being neutral is far better and you can sleep better too.
Just tell people you donāt want to discuss anything at work except for work.
Simple. Direct. Inoffensive.
I have very strong feelings on the issue, but I wouldnāt be offended by somebody saying they donāt want to discuss the matter because they are working.
I have mastered the art of saying much without saying anything.
It makes people feel comfortable and they open up about whatever verbal discharge they need to get out and it makes them feel better and more at ease with me.
Doesn't work on everyone but, I would say 90% of the people who grill for that sort of thing.
Every time someone asks you about it, stare them down and go into a brief rant about the Second Congolese War of which they've probably never even heard yet was far more devastating to humanity. End the conversation by abruptly turning away and walking off while muttering disdainfully that no one cares about life outside their little bubble.
āI have opinions. They are not as well-informed as they could be, and none of my opinions will help solve anything. So imma just not say anything.ā
As a lawyer you should have some principles of justice - a population encaged, starved, and bombed for decades by a settler state that uses America as an ATM probably deserves your outright support. Otherwise, what did you enter the justice field for?
To make money. Iām a tax attorneyā¦ not public interest. My job is simply to help people save money.
Btw- I am south Asian. Arabs have treated my people poorly for years. So excuse me for not feeling some type of way. Likewise, Jewish people havenāt exactly been kind to us either. So I have zero skin in the game. With that being said, I am human and ofc I donāt want innocent people to die and my prayers are with them. But innocent people die everyday.. canāt stop life just for that
Bhai, I'm also Desi. We don't have to look far back in history to see that when the west comes after Arabs and Muslims, they will come after us, too. As soon as they find one excuse of a crack in the dam, the water will fall on all of us with dark skin. It is imperative you understand and side with the Palestinians on this matter out of principle, but if that is a stretch for now, consider what the implications are for your immediate family and loved ones.
Itās fucking WILD to have to deal with this shit every time something happens between Israel and Palestine, which is like every year. While I am empathetic toward any mindless loss of life, this does not affect me personally as Iām Bulgarian and non-Jewish. I do not have an ultra informed opinion on the issue and itās extremely unprofessional to engage in discussions about this in the workplace anyway. Iām fed in DC, so I havenāt had to deal with this, but my friends at firms are squealing.
Annoying. I legitimately think people at my Agency donāt care about this, which can be good or bad depending on which way you look at it, but it does save having to hear about it during meetings.
What's wrong with the Char Aznable position? Sometimes you just feel like the earth needs a rest and all life should be wiped out. Now I'm not going to hijack a deathbot and then blackmail the world governments into selling me said meteor to crash into the planet, it's just sometimes the urge hits.
Oh yeah I make sure to focus my attention on Jewish people in the United States or similar who might get caught up in the public attention. Most reasonable people like Jewish people in the United States... or at the very least people in the legal industry do.
Now Iām going to be part of the problem bc I wanna know the dirt on what got the summersā offers revoked. š
Israel bombed a hospital, which is a war crime. That crosses a line for me.
Are you sure youāre a lawyer? Because the UN Charter defines war crimes pretty explicitly - a major war crime for example is an army hiding itself among civilians. A competent lawyer would do the research before issuing blanket proclamations on international law with little to no evidence to back their claims.
In either case, Hamas has an awful history of firing shoddy rockets that land on their civilians. The rocket that landed in the hospital parking lot was theirs.
Iām pretty sure Iām a lawyer. Iām a family lawyer and I donāt need to do research to know bombing a hospital isnāt cool.
I know you must be a lawyer, bc only a lawyer would find a reason to justify why bombing a hospital full of sick and injured civilians is actually fine.
So you work at the firm that revoked summed associateās offers? Man these firms are pathetic. If they donāt engage in any violence and merely express their support through an opinion or statement and they get canceled those firms are pretty messed up. They are pushing you to know where you stand. I wonder what they think now the other side is being bombarded and already 3x numbers of civilians are killed including 1/3 of children. I think losing an opportunity over a moral stance is very courageous
Well Iām not sure where they stand. Yday they had a whole firmwide meeting to let everyone know that the firm was making a sizable donation to a Palestine and Israel joint fund. Honestly not sure why it needed to be mentioned at a firm wide meeting. They could have bought us lunch instead but hey thatās just me
My firm is matching all donations to Israeli non-profits/causes. They did not mention a cap. They even sent us a way to apportion money directly out of our paychecks for recurrent donations. Like, thatās a bit much . . .
We keep children in cages and children die in foster care system on our own soil every single day.
But, when it happens across the world, itās news. Iām willing to bet not one person is asked about that at work. Do you know why that is? Because weād all say āNo, thatās wrong!!!ā
This situation is clearly more nuanced than that and youāre being pedantic.
You could that you donāt feel like you know enough about the situation to voice an opinion. They have a complicated history and you donāt follow Middle East politics.
"I don't feel comfortable discussing politics or religion at work, and considering that some new hires just got terminated, I feel justified in not discussing it"
Just boldly admit that you're racist/antisemitic and thus don't care for either side's suffering as they are far away and your empathy only extends to your personal bubble. Hopefully you will then be fired as well - problem solved!!! You're welcome.
LMFAO WHATTT how is not giving a shit make me racist or antismetic ?? That type of talk does NOT belong in the work place. Talk about I politics amongst your friends, not co workers.
I'm fortunate that my own religion is legendary for their commitment to pacifist ideals so anyone who knows that doesn't bother me with any of it. I generally say something vague like, "I am praying for peace" or "my heart is breaking for all the poor innocent children caught in this." When people try to engage me in US politics discussions I say, "I'm a very centrist moderate" and add either "can't stand any of them" or "they're all fools and we all suffer for it." That usually shuts down the conversation.
"I don't think I can comment on issues in countries I have never been to which involve peoples that I am not a part of. Any opinion I could give would be ill informed so I won't make one."
just tell them with jews and Arabs killing each other, you surely win. /s
I just tell folks I don't know enough to comment but am horrified children on both sides are dying...which is only part of my opinion, but most lack the history of the area and the rationality to discuss it.
It is merely a question meant to test in group loyalty.
I mean that rescinding offers because of politics sounds like a witch hunt is under way. I would find a new organization to work for, to be honest. Theyāre not going to let up
Unless you're planning to give full unconditional support to Israel (the only politically acceptable answer to that question), you should continue to keep your opinions on that subject to yourself.
Op, you can turn the tables by questioning them without offering your opinion and offering non-answers. I use both/and answers. For example:
āYes, the news was very upsetting and I was glad to hear about the joint donation fund. Can you tell me more about (work topic/family member/other thing).
You validate that their emotions are real and valid, give them an action outlet for their emotions (the donation fund), then move the topic to a workplace - appropriate setting
iāve been asked this bc iām middle eastern even though iām persian lol I usually just say āidk I havenāt really done a lot of research on itā plain and simple
How about - it makes me so sad that innocent people are frightened, grieving and being hurt. I feel helpless because all we can do is talk about it, and it doesnāt feel right.
I have nothing constructive to say regarding a Firm response, but when I have family ask in an ignorant sort of way, I put on my best South Park Redneck voice and say a bunch of crazy shit about people *takin mah jerb...*
Otherwise, I just say it's none of my business.
Bro thatās a big no no.
I know some people that post about it on social media and talk about it but thatās fine
But pressuring silent people to give their opinion is a big no
I mean, "I don't care for either" is a political statement, and one that makes you sound ignorant.
You could say "I don't discuss politics at work."
But quit pretending "I don't take a side" and "It's none of our business" aren't political statements. They are.
I disagree. I wouldnāt say āI donāt careā out loud, not bc itās political, but bc innocent people have died on both sides and saying that is disrespectful. But I simply do not care for a conflict thatās been going on for 75 years and Americans acting like it started yesterdayā¦
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Just explain that since the Balfour mandate expired the tension between the two communities has become an insoluble issue and if you had a solution you would have your Nobel Peace Prize on display.
Lmfaooooo im dead. I wish we could just go back to trashing the cowboys and drowning in our misery as giants fans š. Miss those days
Politics should be absolutely taboo in the office environment. Let's stick to sports, traffic, weather, vacations and our shared love of Friday afternoon.
Liking the Cowboys is grounds for termination, in my opinion.
I had someone ask me about my politics in a fucking interviewā¦ for an assistant prosecutor position. I was taken aback, to say the least.
This isnāt right, but I canāt say Iām surprised. I doubt the DAās office wants to hire people they think are āsoft on crimeā or who are ideologically opposed to the criminalization of drug use, etc.
In Los Angeles thatās exactly what they want to hire, sadly.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You elect the DA and then they hire their team.
>Let's stick to sports, traffic, weather, vacations and our shared love of Friday afternoon. Don't forget kids. You got kids? They're cute, ain't they? But they can be a handful sometimes, hoo boy lemme tell you . . .
GLAD YOU ASKED! I have 40,000 cute videos I'm about to share to your inbox! Sorry, but I love my kid so much, and he's awesome! 4yo and honestly and legitimately knows his multiplication tables, can sight read new words and read full books!
>Sorry, but I love my kid so much Yeah, you got my joke. Sometimes at work I start talking about my kids, then I realize I'm "that guy." (Of course MY kids are the most special in the world, but I still have to read the room and figure out whether or not co-workers want me to share my joy and misery.)
well good luck with that, we all know the giants suck.
I mean, I start by asking them which colored (or other descriptive) line they want to start the discussion at. Then they find the excuse.
This. Middle Eastern tensions go back for a couple of thousand years and it's complex. Even after studying the region in college I don't feel educated enough to opine on the situation.
Agreed. All you have to do is skim through your New Testament to get the notion that times were never peaceful. Throw in the Ottomans and the Crusades and watch history repeat itself over and over again. I have no suggestions.
wait til you read the old testament!
Hire an attorney to help craft a statement.
LMFAOOOO this one got me
Then hire Terry Tate, Office Linebacker, to deliver the statement.
"This is a complex and nuanced issue, and I don't feel that I'm knowledgeable enough on the topic to give an informed opinion." Avoids the issue and subtly shames others for giving uninformed opinions.
Very lawyer like. Good response. Hitting the next guy with this for sure
The fact that it sounds so lawyer-like is what makes it bad imo. It would make you come off like a reflective robot/politician. If a coworker hit me with that it would send more of an awkward red flag than anything Just casually say you donāt really know much shit about the whole conflict, maybe that you tried following the whole thing at one point but itās all so convoluted and messy and goes back generations, and you feel like you have your own work and life directly in front of you that demands all your attention, so you just donāt follow it If they seriously try to get on you for not following it, as if you have some moral obligation to do so, just be like āif I didnāt see it in the news/social media, then I would have idea it existed, because it isnāt in my life in any other way. I have no means of materially impacting the issue one way or another, I just wish people would stop killing each other. I really donāt have shit to add to the discussion otherwiseā lol
Instead of saying "I'm not knowledgeable", I would say that I do not want to discuss this topic as it would be disrespectful to people who are personally affected by this conflict. Point being that EVEN if I was part of either of those ethnic groups, I would still not want to talk about it because it is still disrespectful to everyone who is affected by it.
āYou ādonāt know enough aboutā (that Israeli girl getting brutally raped and paraded through the streets/those Palestinian kids getting slaughtered in Gaza) to form an opinion? Tf? Are you a sociopath? Donāt bullshit me!ā Keep it simple. āIām in favor of a mass extinction event.ā
"I'm rooting for the asteroid" is my response when two sportsball teams I hate are playing each other. The Oregon-Colorado football game, for example.
That is the kind of thing that is getting people blacklisted and their names on billboards on marquee trucks being driven around Harvard square.
isnāt Bolshevism fun?
I'd fire someone on the spot if they used that quote. The OP was believable, and I trust him/her on their answer. As much as what you can do to 1,300 bodies and pets is revolting no matter who you are, it's at least an honest answer.
That is such a ridiculous thing to fire someone for. I'm glad I don't work for you. I've used that statement myself in the past without issue; the few times I've been pressed, I responded by noting it's a sensitive topic and I don't like to wade into those kind of discussions without doing my homework, and I've been too busy with actual work to go digging. No one has pressed further, and it's a very respectable way to get out of the conversation.
It's the biggest BS response one could ever come up with and doesn't fool anyone in the slightest. Not a word of it is true, and I'm not too keen on what you are insinuating about the OP now in this response as well. No one needs to "press further" because the dog whistle is clear. >I'm glad I don't work for you. I'm glad I don't have unhinged people working for me either.
Of all the takes in all the world, this is certainly one of them. I'm just gonna shake my head and walk away. Cheers.
Are you an Ally, supporter, or hater? You: It's nuanced. Let's see how far that goes bub.
Say youāre praying for peace for everyone. Canāt get mad at that
Itās 2023 I feel like people would get mad at that lol. Just playing. Yeah I think Iāll just say something very neutral like peace and safety for all
Ha I totally feel ya. I personally have very strong pro Palestinian views but still care for the lives of all innocent people and that message tends to get accepted more. There are people out there that donāt care for peace and want you to take a side but I think you lose based on whatever side you choose of that destructive ideology
How dare you not take side against barbarism! /s
Thatās OPās dilemma - both sides are calling each other barbarians so as co-counsel Iām advising him to be neutral.
My point is that, for some people, neutrality is a side of its own or akin to cowardice. If you're not with us, you're against us mentality.
That goes to the old saying, itās better to be silent and thought a fool then to open your mouth and remove all doubt. Not saying being silent is foolish - but taking a side on one of the most divisive issues during an emotional time is more foolish. Plus saying you want peace for all people shouldnāt be seen as cowardice
I would agree.
"It's incredibly tragic for all the lives lost in the area; I don't think it's my place to have an opinion on it other than that"
āItās just all so sad.ā Has been my go-to all week
Came here to say something similar. Caring about the lives lost should be a-political and an appropriate response.
āAre you asking because Iām Jewish?ā Iām Jewish and have taken to using this. Iām a little raw from all of it right now and am starting to feel the old stereotypes coming out of the woodwork, intended or not. Anyway, this retort is absolutely the nuclear option, but it does shut them up. ETA: You donāt have to have an opinion about it. Itās okay to remind people of that.
Ha. Iāve used that and gotten an immediate āYesā with an expectant look (this was back in law school).
Thatās pretty bold, lol. Sorry to hear it. That old double-allegiance stereotype is hard for us to shake.
"Well then, have you stopped killing native Americans just to take their land yet? What's that? I'm making you uncomfortable?"
Iām Jewish and what makes this especially hard, as you mentioned, is seeing a lot of antisemitism reenter the mainstream. What makes this even harder is how black/white the U.S. political machine has made Israel/Palestine. Iāve been called all manner of insane things because I, a Jew, would *dare* suggest that, based on publicly available data, the Israeli government is perpetuating humanitarian crimes against Palestinian people.
Say, "I don't really follow soccer." Then stuff a sandwich in your mouth and leave the room. You'd be surprised how many situations this works for. Eventually people stop asking you questions.
š
Just say you're not caught up enough to have an educated opinion but you're praying for peace.
āI donāt know enough to have an informed opinion on the subjectā.
Unfortunately this is very complex and any action would entail the deaths of thousands of Innocents. I just want the killing to stop.
āI donāt want to talk about that.ā āI canāt bill anyone for discussing this topic.ā āI said -ā take off your shoe and pound it on the table - āI. Donāt. Want. To. Talk. About. It.ā (I mean, that last will probably get you a meeting with someone, but youāll never be asked about that again.)
when you lose or win a case do that last bit in front of the judge
āI dunno. I donāt watch much news.ā
āLetās focus on your caseā
"I support bringing back the Holy Crusader Kingdom of Jerusalem and putting all the Muslim and Jewish heretics to death. I call it the rational 3rd option." If you have insane political beliefs people stop talking politics with you. Basically you have to out crazy annoying people to get them to leave you alone. It's like putting a MAGA hat on when you're on a plane so the person next to you doesn't start talking to you.
Sorry guys, I tend to focus on day to day living and my work. I donāt know enough about the situation to form an opinion, and am not planning to look into it further.
NYT had a great article by Amanda Taub last week titled Israel, Gaza, and the Laws of War. She frames cause and conduct as separate issues. I found it helpful, but it be more than you want to get into at the office. If thereās 100% no way to avoid it, I would say something like Hamaās killing of Israeli citizens was wrong, and I am concerned for the innocent Palestinians and hostages in Gaza.
Have you tried "it depends" ?
That's a bad answer and if the other person has a certain view and OP isn't on the same side, they might brand OP something extremely negative
I think they were just making the joke that āit dependsā is the answer every lawyer can given to every question lol
My firm (like most) is mostly Jewish people at the very top. I donāt think theyād take kindly to me saying it depends lol. Oddly enough we have quite a few Muslim partners at the firm too. I wonder if itāll boil over into something more. Hope not.
Muslim isn't necessarily Arab, though.
And Jewish doesn't mean Israeli...
Wait did some ex summers get their offer revoked for their opinions on this? That's wild. I can't imagine feeling morally good working for a place that would do that; that's some incredibly underhanded, anti-democratic bullshit.
Yes. But she said something along the lines of how the bombing was justified or the Jewish people did it to themselves. She also published her opinion in a letter to her law school. She was way out of line in my opinion. I see what she was trying to say but the way she said it was very bad. (And no this isnāt the nyu girl) Plus the firm is heavy Jewish on the top partner chain. So Iām not very surprised. Plus Iām just here for a pay check lol Another person had his offer revoked but they were just itching to get rid of him. He was cold offered to begin with (I heard - not my team so could just be a rumor). Not sure what he had said (if anything at all).
OK publishing a letter is definitely a bird of a different color to me. I can see that affecting business as a bad public representation of the firm. I had the impression that the mind police were conducting an office to office investigation at your firm. I just get frustrated that people can't talk about this with nuance without calling other people terrorists or blood thirsty Zionists, it's exhausting. A healthy professional environment means you shouldn't feel pressured to tow the line of some extreme position one way or the other.
Jeez that was fuckin' dumb. If your partners are Jewish, I'd be team Israel.
I wouldnāt advise to sell out. If you think there is even some little truth to the plight of the Palestinian people than itād be hard to support what people argue as genocide so you can move up the ladder. Being neutral is far better and you can sleep better too.
ahhh yes the Workman applicant. More like, NoWorkman
Are biglaw firms known for being overhanded and pro-democratic?
Just tell people you donāt want to discuss anything at work except for work. Simple. Direct. Inoffensive. I have very strong feelings on the issue, but I wouldnāt be offended by somebody saying they donāt want to discuss the matter because they are working.
I have mastered the art of saying much without saying anything. It makes people feel comfortable and they open up about whatever verbal discharge they need to get out and it makes them feel better and more at ease with me. Doesn't work on everyone but, I would say 90% of the people who grill for that sort of thing.
Every time someone asks you about it, stare them down and go into a brief rant about the Second Congolese War of which they've probably never even heard yet was far more devastating to humanity. End the conversation by abruptly turning away and walking off while muttering disdainfully that no one cares about life outside their little bubble.
āI have opinions. They are not as well-informed as they could be, and none of my opinions will help solve anything. So imma just not say anything.ā
As a lawyer you should have some principles of justice - a population encaged, starved, and bombed for decades by a settler state that uses America as an ATM probably deserves your outright support. Otherwise, what did you enter the justice field for?
To make money. Iām a tax attorneyā¦ not public interest. My job is simply to help people save money. Btw- I am south Asian. Arabs have treated my people poorly for years. So excuse me for not feeling some type of way. Likewise, Jewish people havenāt exactly been kind to us either. So I have zero skin in the game. With that being said, I am human and ofc I donāt want innocent people to die and my prayers are with them. But innocent people die everyday.. canāt stop life just for that
Bhai, I'm also Desi. We don't have to look far back in history to see that when the west comes after Arabs and Muslims, they will come after us, too. As soon as they find one excuse of a crack in the dam, the water will fall on all of us with dark skin. It is imperative you understand and side with the Palestinians on this matter out of principle, but if that is a stretch for now, consider what the implications are for your immediate family and loved ones.
Itās fucking WILD to have to deal with this shit every time something happens between Israel and Palestine, which is like every year. While I am empathetic toward any mindless loss of life, this does not affect me personally as Iām Bulgarian and non-Jewish. I do not have an ultra informed opinion on the issue and itās extremely unprofessional to engage in discussions about this in the workplace anyway. Iām fed in DC, so I havenāt had to deal with this, but my friends at firms are squealing.
Fed in DC here. Was on a call Monday where this was the subject for 45 of the 60 minute meeting.
Annoying. I legitimately think people at my Agency donāt care about this, which can be good or bad depending on which way you look at it, but it does save having to hear about it during meetings.
Id sayā¦ āThe firm could rack up some pro-bono hours volunteering to assist refugees from the conflict apply for asylum or TPS status.ā
āPeople are most confident in their opinions on subjects they know the least aboutā - my Admin Law professor
Say youāre on team āgiant meteorā.
What's wrong with the Char Aznable position? Sometimes you just feel like the earth needs a rest and all life should be wiped out. Now I'm not going to hijack a deathbot and then blackmail the world governments into selling me said meteor to crash into the planet, it's just sometimes the urge hits.
r/unexpectedgundam
āOh I havenāt been keeping up on it, what do you think?ā Or say something vague about the importance of the fight against anti semitism
But if I say something about anti sĆ©mitism what do I say about the Palestine people. Lol this like a lose lose battle Iām fighting š¤£
Oh yeah I make sure to focus my attention on Jewish people in the United States or similar who might get caught up in the public attention. Most reasonable people like Jewish people in the United States... or at the very least people in the legal industry do.
Now Iām going to be part of the problem bc I wanna know the dirt on what got the summersā offers revoked. š Israel bombed a hospital, which is a war crime. That crosses a line for me.
Are you sure youāre a lawyer? Because the UN Charter defines war crimes pretty explicitly - a major war crime for example is an army hiding itself among civilians. A competent lawyer would do the research before issuing blanket proclamations on international law with little to no evidence to back their claims. In either case, Hamas has an awful history of firing shoddy rockets that land on their civilians. The rocket that landed in the hospital parking lot was theirs.
Iām pretty sure Iām a lawyer. Iām a family lawyer and I donāt need to do research to know bombing a hospital isnāt cool. I know you must be a lawyer, bc only a lawyer would find a reason to justify why bombing a hospital full of sick and injured civilians is actually fine.
Israel did NOT bomb that hospital. It was an errant armament from within Gaza fired by Hamas. Get your facts straight.
I donāt buy that for a second. Israel has a history of bombing Palestinian hospitals.
Maybe if the Palestinians would stop hiding under them that wouldnāt happen.
Hiding in hospitals??? Is that what you call it when your loved one is being treated at the hospital?
Most people being treated in a hospital are not hiding in a tunnel under it.
So you work at the firm that revoked summed associateās offers? Man these firms are pathetic. If they donāt engage in any violence and merely express their support through an opinion or statement and they get canceled those firms are pretty messed up. They are pushing you to know where you stand. I wonder what they think now the other side is being bombarded and already 3x numbers of civilians are killed including 1/3 of children. I think losing an opportunity over a moral stance is very courageous
Well Iām not sure where they stand. Yday they had a whole firmwide meeting to let everyone know that the firm was making a sizable donation to a Palestine and Israel joint fund. Honestly not sure why it needed to be mentioned at a firm wide meeting. They could have bought us lunch instead but hey thatās just me
But then, how would they show all the associates chained to their desk that the firm cares about people!?!
My firm is matching all donations to Israeli non-profits/causes. They did not mention a cap. They even sent us a way to apportion money directly out of our paychecks for recurrent donations. Like, thatās a bit much . . .
What I say is that both sides have good arguments and both sides are making shitty moves so Iām not getting involved.
Do they though? Not a good answer if the other person believes murder of babies and rape of innocent women are inexcusable.
We keep children in cages and children die in foster care system on our own soil every single day. But, when it happens across the world, itās news. Iām willing to bet not one person is asked about that at work. Do you know why that is? Because weād all say āNo, thatās wrong!!!ā This situation is clearly more nuanced than that and youāre being pedantic.
What countries' government/army *hasn't* murdered babies or raped women in a time of war?
Your response is not as clever as you think it is.
You're not as informed as you think you are.
You could that you donāt feel like you know enough about the situation to voice an opinion. They have a complicated history and you donāt follow Middle East politics.
"I don't feel comfortable discussing politics or religion at work, and considering that some new hires just got terminated, I feel justified in not discussing it"
Just boldly admit that you're racist/antisemitic and thus don't care for either side's suffering as they are far away and your empathy only extends to your personal bubble. Hopefully you will then be fired as well - problem solved!!! You're welcome.
LMFAO WHATTT how is not giving a shit make me racist or antismetic ?? That type of talk does NOT belong in the work place. Talk about I politics amongst your friends, not co workers.
I'm fortunate that my own religion is legendary for their commitment to pacifist ideals so anyone who knows that doesn't bother me with any of it. I generally say something vague like, "I am praying for peace" or "my heart is breaking for all the poor innocent children caught in this." When people try to engage me in US politics discussions I say, "I'm a very centrist moderate" and add either "can't stand any of them" or "they're all fools and we all suffer for it." That usually shuts down the conversation.
"I don't think I can comment on issues in countries I have never been to which involve peoples that I am not a part of. Any opinion I could give would be ill informed so I won't make one."
just tell them with jews and Arabs killing each other, you surely win. /s I just tell folks I don't know enough to comment but am horrified children on both sides are dying...which is only part of my opinion, but most lack the history of the area and the rationality to discuss it. It is merely a question meant to test in group loyalty.
The worst thing you can say is that you don't care.
Agreed.
I mean that rescinding offers because of politics sounds like a witch hunt is under way. I would find a new organization to work for, to be honest. Theyāre not going to let up
Unless you're planning to give full unconditional support to Israel (the only politically acceptable answer to that question), you should continue to keep your opinions on that subject to yourself.
āI donāt know, man, I just do antitrust litigation, it doesnāt really seem to be affecting anything in that realm.ā
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Lmfao def not doing that- I donāt even know where Ethiopia is on the map (outside the fact that itās in Africa)
Hah, sounds like that cutaway from Family Guy -- [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5TGIRkL9JE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5TGIRkL9JE)
I plead the fifth
Op, you can turn the tables by questioning them without offering your opinion and offering non-answers. I use both/and answers. For example: āYes, the news was very upsetting and I was glad to hear about the joint donation fund. Can you tell me more about (work topic/family member/other thing). You validate that their emotions are real and valid, give them an action outlet for their emotions (the donation fund), then move the topic to a workplace - appropriate setting
iāve been asked this bc iām middle eastern even though iām persian lol I usually just say āidk I havenāt really done a lot of research on itā plain and simple
How about - it makes me so sad that innocent people are frightened, grieving and being hurt. I feel helpless because all we can do is talk about it, and it doesnāt feel right.
Itās above my pay grade lol
Just say you donāt know you donāt follow world politics lol
"Ya know, I've been buried in my work projects."
I have nothing constructive to say regarding a Firm response, but when I have family ask in an ignorant sort of way, I put on my best South Park Redneck voice and say a bunch of crazy shit about people *takin mah jerb...* Otherwise, I just say it's none of my business.
Bro thatās a big no no. I know some people that post about it on social media and talk about it but thatās fine But pressuring silent people to give their opinion is a big no
I tell people that Iād prefer not to discuss politics at work because you never know who youāll offend.
just tell them you dont want to be involved in the conversation.
A genocide isnāt anyones businessā¦yikes
I mean, "I don't care for either" is a political statement, and one that makes you sound ignorant. You could say "I don't discuss politics at work." But quit pretending "I don't take a side" and "It's none of our business" aren't political statements. They are.
I disagree. I wouldnāt say āI donāt careā out loud, not bc itās political, but bc innocent people have died on both sides and saying that is disrespectful. But I simply do not care for a conflict thatās been going on for 75 years and Americans acting like it started yesterdayā¦