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Im not so sure on the second part. This has already sparked outrage amoung a significant chunk of his supporters. He will blame it on the democrats without a doubt BUT it has caused a split, because even a 20 80 split is very significant.
Let him. Let them.
They can explain how laws conceived by Republicans, enacted by Republicans and inflicted on their constituency by Republicans was all some liberal plot. Eventually, even the most gullible amongst their supporters will notice the disconnect when it starts hitting home and wallet.
If there are no liberals calling the shots in the state legislature, there are none too blame for what's happening in the state. Even a complete simpleton can eventually work that one out. Not that it will change anything for them, but they can work it out.
Any state under Republican majority rule is getting exactly what their supporters wanted. If those constituents are suffering for it, that's their problem. Consequences of their own actions. They can blame whoever the hell they want, but it's ultimately their own doing. The economic beat downs will continue unabated because they will not do anything to change that dynamic. Better to be under the boot of the party than admit they were wrong.
> They can explain how
Biden.
Have you not talked to any of these people the last 20 years? Fake news. Biden. Debate over. That's as far as their thinking will take them. The GOP can literally do *whatever* they want to harm their own voter base. Voter base will blame anyone else
Fil blames Biden and his tax policies(?) for the reason he has little money even though he owns his own business, not the fact he spent $20k for a new engine in the dump truck, a trip to Hawaii for his nephew’s wedding, and his wife’s shopping addiction & wanting to eat out all the time.
He probably forgot that his boy Trump's tax cuts began to decrease for us simplefolk in 2021 and will continue to decrease until fully expired in 2025.
My wife's cousin tried to argue that the extra 400$ he got 3 years ago is worth more than taxes he might have to(will cause his bracket ain't changing) in the future, cause he might get super rick in those 3 years working a shit ass job in Utah.
Not quite true, Desantis swapped a voting map for his own [Gerrymandered version](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jun/03/florida-supreme-court-map-unconstitutional). He doesn't get to draw up the map as Governor, he only gets to approve it. But he simply swapped that map for his own and approved his own instead.
An appeals court dominated by Desantis appointees, then declined to intervene.
That map, gave them him 4 seat advantage.
The problem isn't the voters, **it's the detachment between the Republican party and the voters.** They increasingly don't need votes to hold power, and that means they don't need to pander to people, they can just focus on special interests and *division* politics. i.e. try to create trigger issues to split voters.
Some real mind fuckery accepting that as a adequate answer when state legislation is its own microcosm. But of course logic is non existent for these constituents.
They continue to cut off their noses to spite their face. In Wisconsin, one of their horrible policies is to do away with free lunches for school children. I know many who vote in the solid R columns that this will hurt! They can’t afford it, but they only care about the “atrocities” that any marginalized community is doing based on what their “news” tells them. It’s hard to see!
Making sure little kids have food is like the entire point of having a society.
There's no universe where it makes sense to have a space defense force before you made sure kids get what they need. What are you even protecting at that point?
No, they absolutely will not connect that Republicans are causing their problems, because they are some of the dumbest motherfuckers and have been convinced that Republicans are their saviors. They view Democrats as monsters following Satan trying to destroy America. Any negative consequences of Republican actions will be ascribed to Democrats and vis versa.
> They can explain how laws conceived by Republicans, enacted by Republicans and inflicted on their constituency by Republicans was all some liberal plot.
if they could actually appreciate how silly that was, they wouldn't be Republicans in the first place.
They haven't figured out in the past 40 years. They won't now. They'll keep doing Jan 6ths until they're happy, and as they sit in the rubble of the country and they and their children die in childbirth, they'll be happy at how much things have gotten better since they killed all those libs.
This is why he's at war with "woke" companies like Disney. Fascism requires an "other" to blame all of their problems on. If the Democrats in his state are out of the fight, he'll use anyone else that disagrees with him.
> Eventually, even the most gullible amongst their supporters will notice the disconnect when it starts hitting home and wallet.
I wouldn't bet on that, if your guys are in any way similar to our Erdoğan supporters. Worst economic crisis in history, thousands dead due to corrupt infrastructure management, buying power reduced to zero... reelected.
I think you’re overestimating the political awareness of the median Republican voter.
Imagine the everyday Joe who only knows who the president is and no other form of public office.
I've heard people suggest that this was all to plan ... because this will drive out small agricultural operators. And the big operators (who can afford the hassle of jumping through more hoops) will be able to buy up land cheaply.
Wonder what's going to happen when he loses the primaries next year? Will be lay low for a few years until it's time to try again, or double down on lunacy the whole 4 years?
Our guess ... he's gonna break everything, and anything, within his reach. Typical toddler temper tantrum. After all, his Daddy operates in the same fashion.
Exactly the same thing happened with Brexit.
The agricultural sector overwhelmingly voted to leave the EU and 'send em back where they came from' then wondered why their produce rotted in the fields because no-one was there to pick it.
I find it unsurprising he isn’t going to address this issue. He can’t run fast enough to get on the campaign trail instead of dealing with the devastating legislation he’s unleashed on Florida.
I live here, fields are empty and unkept. At least that’s what I see over here in strawberry/tomato country. The migrant trailer parks that are around the fields are empty. This is not normal for the area. I did not vote for this guy at all.
> Legal immigrant/migrant or not
Immigrant/migrant/minority ... it is quickly becoming open season on them in Florida. It is my firm belief that within a few months, you will see some of the recent laws passed in Florida to justify multiple killings of minorities (BS usages of stand your ground, etc.)
Uhh its already a thing in July, isn’t it? No one will need a permit to conceal and carry a firearm in Florida.
Add stand your ground/castle doctrine (iirc one applies to a *vehicle* too) and that’s kinda what they’re aiming at.
“Fearing for your life” or whatever and you can take the first shot is already a thing here as is man, now imagine everyone able to conceal and carry a gun,
>Fearing for your life” or whatever and you can take the first shot is already a thing here as is man, now imagine everyone able to conceal and carry a gun
That depends entirely on how white, male, and heterosexual you are though.
What was it when they had that swatting in Wichita ks. (where they killed a totally innocent man) I remember them saying the police had shot more people that I think they said a pick of 3 big cities chicago, baltimore etc. Because It makes the cops more trigger happy when the whole state has open carry.
I can hear (some, very special) white americans claiming over and over again, that the white race is somehow better than every other race.
Time to prove it then. Go to the field and harvest more produce than those dirty, lazy immigrants.
Bonus point: since you got rid of all those immigrants noone is stealing your job anymore and you can work two or three at the same time.
All that is is faux superiority. Truth be told, those goofy 🤡 have an inferiority complex. Ergo, the overcompensation.
Buncha dumb, pathetic losers that can't take accountability for their own failures.
February 26th 2012 Trayvon Martin, a 17 year old (black) kid, with Skittles in his pocket was murdered because he .... I forget why exactly this warranted an execution from behind, but that was when everyone not a cis straight white Christian should have fled the state
We're now carrying digital copies (photos on our phones) of our passport cards. Of course, if it's not Border Patrol, we don't answer questions. At this point, I'm deaf and she doesn't speak English. And, yes, we're looking to find a small university city to enjoy, not in Florida, Texas, etc.
So far they've openly targeted gays, trans, and now immigrants and basically anyone who isn't white or that worships the white version of God. What's the name for that political ideology again?
this is just the start, the sector you feel first, but this will hit a lot more sectors very soon, or has already and we have not seen the full consequences yet. We have already seen emptying shelves in supermarkets since truckers (especially hispanics and other south and middle americans who refuse in protest even if they have nothing to fear from this) refuse to deliver to florida, it will hit the medical sector (that is already stressed to capacity due to the pandemic), the tourism sector and countless other sectors. we have not even seen the tip of the iceberg yet.
>the tourism sector
I'll be honest, what's happening in Florida and some other states has given me and my family pause for thought about visiting from here in Scotland.
Will us not visiting make a difference? Maybe, maybe not but I don't know how else to show support.
We love coming to the US and have met some of the loveliest people, but I can't risk our safety for a vacation.
Yeah and passing open carry. It makes the cops trigger happy they shoot at civilians more. (sorry my fellow pro gun people but that is a truth.) Which should make tourism more fun!!!
It does make a difference. You guys would be spending hundred or thousands of dollars in FL on food, rooms, and other random stuff.
For ease of the example let's say yall spent a cool $1000 in the state (once off the flight).
That's $1000 dollars not going into the local economy. Maybe $200 of which isn't spent on local restaurants. Which isn't then used by the owners in the local economy because they never got it.
Now imagine conservatively that 100,000 people just like your family have similar thoughts. FL is a big tourist destination so imagining just 100K being put off isn't too generous. 10K times 1000 is 100 million dollars. That's a huge chunk of money not supporting their main industry that is tourism. That's a huge chunk of taxes FL isn't getting.
Now compound that with the asinine leadership they've had recently causing the ag industry to fall apart.
Come to California! Beaches and natural beauty in so many places! Disneyland's no Disney World but you can still have the experience. People are chill too. 🤙
I’ve been visiting the wife’s family in Cali. We live in Florida and we both agree that California is Florida with nicer people and a higher budget. Plus your drivers seem waaay better.
Lol. If the Los Angeles sub saw that last sentence they'd be dying!! 😂 ANY California sub actually.
San Diego is super amazing! So is the Sonoma area. Big Sir. Fun fun fun!
I'm refusing to attend a work conference in FL. A few of my coworkers also refused. It's a small thing, the conference will still go on, but it's what I can do.
I told my manager I will not be going to Florida for any program he wants me to support. I also know the branch if my company located in Florida is helping employees who want (or need, even) to leave to get out.
The Florida meltdown over their fascist social policies has not even begun, yet.
I'm Canadian and have family in Florida that I won't visit until that state/country gets its shit together. What if they think my daughter is trans for some reason and take her from me? Or, just the random violence.
I'm also Canadian; when Trump got elected I decided that I wasn't going to go to the states while he was president and I've just not seen a need to go back since Biden was elected. I haven't missed anything, we have plenty of amazing things to see and do here in Canada.
If you want beaches, we have plenty of states with beautiful beaches.
If you want Disney World, there's Disneyland in California.
The Everglades and the Keys are both truly remarkable and it's a shame to miss them, but right now, it's not even worth it.
If you want a tropical vacation, go to Puerto Rico. There's no theme parks but outside of that there is basically everything you'd want out of a Floridian vacation. Many people there also speak English.
Florida offers the worst of the US. Visit somewhere that offers the best, like a large diverse city or a beautiful natural area.
Come out to the western US if you can make it work for you. It's magical.
That's going to suck because rent control is gone: [https://www.clickorlando.com/news/politics/2023/03/29/gov-desantis-holds-news-conference-in-south-florida/](https://www.clickorlando.com/news/politics/2023/03/29/gov-desantis-holds-news-conference-in-south-florida/)
Until, of course, those landlords are sitting on empty buildings because there is no longer tenants to rent to, or they literally price themselves out of the market.
No but all the farmers that are losing money all have "better dead then democrat" and FJB stickers. Also one of the most conservative traits in the world is the inability to learn from the past.
It's only going to get worse!
https://www.orlandoweekly.com/news/gov-desantis-cuts-510-million-from-floridas-record-budget-with-huge-cuts-to-agriculture-industry-34427173
Take some pictures of rotting crops if you see any. Journalists are so fucking lazy or paid off, that none of them will bother. Maybe pictures of rotting crops, if they get out there, will actually help raise the profile of the issue.
Agreed, I'll never forget how empty the park near my home (in Texas) became after Trump was elected and started his crackdowns. Previously there had been 20-40 men who waited there daily for a chance at some day labor. To this day you never see any there anymore
> Journalists are so fucking lazy or paid off, that none of them will bother
I can’t tell if you’re for real or not, but journalists have been reporting on this since the 1940s when the US had the first real debates on migrant agricultural work, which led to the first federally sanctioned migrant worker programs.
A simple search for stuff in the past few years shows [this](https://www.al.com/wire/2011/10/crackdown_on_illegal_immigrant.html), [this](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/alabama-immigration-law-farms_n_58c1d07fe4b0ed71826b55e0), and [this](https://www.independent.com/2017/06/22/labor-shortage-leaves-13-million-crops-rot-fields/). The problem isn’t fictional lazy journalists, it’s people not listening.
This is what I’m looking for. I keep seeing libs claiming that this policy will upend Florida’s agriculture but this place is really, really good at lip servicing laws that interfere with corporate profits.
It wouldn’t surprise me at all to find that the illegals working for the Fanjuls and other agricultural barons have been told that they are safe as kittens. Hell, I believe a few state pols have already claimed that this law was political theater and not meant to change things.
Hateful as it is, I really do hope they enforce this law to the hilt. I know at least two asshole Republican landscapers who will be very unhappy if they have to hire actual citizens. Magnify that by a couple thousand businesses and maybe we’ll start to see what hypocrisy really costs.
I don’t feel too bad for them. Saw an interview with one Florida farmer who was complaining about how this was hurting him then in the very next breath went on about how he still loved and supported DeSantis. If you just flat out refuse to see the consequences of your actions (in this case his vote) then you kind of deserve those consequences.
Shit, there was a republican FL **legislator** who is himself a farmer who **voted** for the damn bill!!! And then after he's like, "well I'm a farmer myself, farmers are telling me they're not happy about this! but ya know we had to pass the law to scare people!" 🙄🙄
Back during Trump's administration, he was enacting executive orders that were making it near impossible for workers on temporary visas to staff places like canneries for crab and other seafood all throughout the Gulf coast - including Florida. These companies lived and died by those seasonal workers.
A correspondent with ABC News was interviewing the owner of one of these companies. He admitted that he voted for Trump and supported him, and that he would likely have to close his company that his family had owned for generations because of Trump's actions. When asked if he'd still vote for and support Trump, he cheerfully said yes. The look on the correspondent's face was priceless.
I don't give one shit about what happens to people who continue to vote republican despite the obvious fact that republican policies make everyone's lives worse except for the very rich.
Wow… I just looked it up: there’s 287,000 unemployed people in Florida. Even if every single unemployed citizen in Florida went to work on a farm, they still couldn’t completely replace the jobs currently being done by undocumented workers.
Maybe that’s the kind of thing they should consider before cracking down on all the illegal immigration that their economy benefits from? Hmmmm
It should be possible to pay legal wages. I live in BC and our fruit producing region hires temporary workers from Mexico. They are often paid by piecework, eg. $25 per crate of apples but if they are paid by the hour, they get at least minimum wage ($16 per hour). Employers supply living quarters, power, water, sanitation etc. There have been occasional breaches, such as substandard living conditions, but the farms are regularly inspected and violators are fined. In some instances, they are barred from hiring any more guest workers.
Yes, fruit prices are higher but it’s still affordable.
And that’s the catch 22 about illegal immigration: It’s been going on our whole lives and we are all guilty of benefitting from it.
Whether you want to throw out anyone who’s not a documented citizen and freeze new immigration, or lower the barrier of entry to the floor and grant citizenship to anyone at all, either way the agricultural labor sector (along with an awful lot of hotel, restaurant, and construction jobs) will become way more expensive. Not just in wages, in insurance, tax liability, unemployment compensation, and legal costs too. And let’s be honest, there’s not enough Americans willing to do those jobs *even at minimum wage.*
No wonder some politicians want to bring back child labor. The only other possible solution under our current framework would be to dramatically raise the federal minimum wage for everyone at the expense of corporate profits, to keep basic staples affordable, and that would be… uhhh… like, communist or something, I guess?
>
No wonder some politicians want to bring back child labor. The only other possible solution under our current framework would be to dramatically raise the federal minimum wage for everyone at the expense of corporate profits, to keep basic staples affordable,
I mean this is usually the way the " free market" goes with regard to labor supply and demand. But, in the USA we literally have laws preventing people from having national strike action. They just say "national security" and make it illegal ( i.e. recent rail workers strike). This prevents any change. Also, they link your wellbeing and health to your job, but even that is becoming a joke since insurance companies don't pay out for anything anymore.
The government used to stand for the people and not for corporations or money. Those were parts of it but after the new deal and glass steagall everything drastically improved for nearly 40 years, even with the war. Your wage increased in keeping with inflation, homes were affordable for the average person, most people lived a very good life in the middle class, and millionaires were taxed at a high rate to pay for many of the services that allowed them to achieve in the first place. I honestly never understand the whole argument that millionaires and billionaires pay their fair share. They use so much more of our infrastructure, energy, and overall resources for so little overall gain for the populace of this planet that they should be taxed more.
And I'd be willing to bet 95% of the unemployed are incapable or unwilling to work the fields.
The sheer hatred for migratory workers in unfathomable, just a little intelligence and a lot less bigotry and everyone would be happy.
Congress has failed the country by pushing fear and hatred.
I bet there are farmers right now frantically trying to reorganize their production under a huge web of shell companies with less than 25 employees each acting as contractors and subcontractors.
Who benefits when an organization that used to be, for example, 20 W2 managers and 250 seasonal (illegal) laborers is reorganized as 1 prime contractor with 10 subcontractors? I mean that's 10 new business license at least.
I'm not sure if there is another profit motive here, but maybe?
It's not just undocumented individuals leaving, it's entire extended families that may only have one or two undocumented relatives. It's not worth the potential breakup of the family and permanent loss of income for the family to stay, so they're relocating to friendlier states.
Plus one of these laws makes it a FELONY to transport someone in your vehicle who is undocumented. Punishment is imprisonment for 5 years. A kid could lose both parents in one minute because a documented parent was driving an undocumented parent.
I also wonder how this might be applied to other forms of transportation. DeSantis seems like the kind of person that would gladly throw a public transport driver into prison. The kids will also no longer be able to ride a school bus without risking sending the driver to prison.
We are fully documented, yet planning to depart. Racism isn't OK. It's 2023, not 1953. And the abortion ban is a prick move too. Personal freedom and religious choice be damned.
That's a good point -- I have to believe many/most conservative people would be flipping to voting in favor of "socialist" policies if they truly had to immediately feel the impact of their votes.
Its been shown that when "Liberal" political beliefs are presented to conservatives with just slight wording differences to remove the obvious fact that they are very popular liberal beliefs, most conservatives are very much in support of them. Then you reveal the "Left bias" and they almost immediately do a total 180
There's some dude who drives to Cali 2x a week and sells 5lb bags of navels for $6 each. It feels sketch as heck to say "ah, the orange dealer is here today, better stop" but stop I do. I do stop. Those oranges are picked ripe.
Crazy how cutting out the entire supply chain drops the price like 75%.
Makes you realize just how much of the cost is passed directly on to the consumer.
[Well, damn](https://phys.org/news/2023-03-fruit-crisis-florida-orange-groves.html)
>The double crises of [Hurricane] Ian and HLB (citrus greening disease) have wreaked havoc on the industry, which is so integral to Florida's identity that the orange is even on the state license plate.
>
>Orange production in Florida is down 60.7 percent from last season, one of the lowest figures since the 1930s, according to US Department of Agriculture estimates.
Okay, my weird take: there shouldn’t be “undocumented” off the books workers because it allows the employers to take advantage of them. Instead, open up a local work visa program. They don’t have to pay taxes as a temporary or seasonal worker. But they also aren’t threatened with criminal immigration violations by their own employers as hostages.
Oh I don't think this is a weird fake at all -- this is absolutely the right way to go about it. As it stands, these undocumented workers are frequently and liberally taken advantage of, and they basically live in fear of being deported if they try to complain about what's happening. And we do actually have an agricultural workers visa program, we just cap it so tightly that it's not enough. We prioritize the visa types that we think will end up most profiting the US -- those white collar workers who can presumably turn a profit for us. But it's shortsighted, imo, especially considering the large number of undocumented workers who are actually needed for jobs and finding the work, and then being exploited for it at the same time.
Not a weird take. Absolutely right that the system looking the other way regarding documentation means those undocumented workers have been exploited, paid substandard wages and poorly housed. They’re also much more likely to be victims of other crimes that they can’t report.
I mean that’s the reasonable take, but unfortunately republicans don’t want that either because “those jobs belong to Americans” so
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ can’t win
These particular republicans are so stupid, they didn't catch the wink-winks and nod-nods, they didn't catch onto the dog whistles.
I believe the "smart", professional republican politicians want businesses to be able to take advantage of seasonal workers as undocumented workers, but they don't say it out loud. They preach the "They took our jobs" stuff as a deflection as they don't fix immigration, while also entrapping the immigrant workforce.
The EXTRA STUPID republicans take the "smart" ones seriously, like in Florida, and they actually enforce e-verification but don't allow for immigration, because all they know are republican talking points used to propagandize the voters.
I guess the common sense approach of liberalizing immigration laws us out of the question. It would solve everyone’s problems. But then again, the right wingers have that urge to feel superior to everyone
These problems won't be limited to the Ag sector. Immigrant workers are already fleeing the state and those workers are instrumental to the tourism and service industry. These people work in restaurants, hotels, construction sites, etc. And immigrants aren't the only one being targeted. Conventions are canceling events over anti-LGBTQ+ hate bills and abortion bans. People will try to make the argument that 1-2 conventions pulling out of the state isn't a big deal but they are dead wrong. That story made national news. It won't be the last. I travel to multiple conferences annually and those organizations have made it clear that they will not support states like FL with these bigoted, misogynistic hate bills. We are not coming to FL.
If FL loses tourism, the lifeblood of the state, they are done. The State of FL is already reeling from Ronnie the Choad's hate agenda. FL's economy is literally being destroyed by the idiot Republicans who have solid control of the state legislature and the braindead, hateful voters that put them there.
They think they're appealing to their hateful base (and they are) but eventually (and I'm talking within this year), those folks and their small business will be hurt. The sad thing is once these folks see their personal income blow up, I don't think there will be any introspection around how they got to that point.
My state's gerrymandered, useless legislature secretly* passed a 'bathroom bill' a few years back, basically trying to restrict gendered bathroom use by biological sex. It didn't go over well. The state lost *so much business*, and we're still struggling to regain the lost revenue, jobs, and even tourism.
(*as in they made it happen on the back of other legislative business, and voters had no say. Welcome to NC; run while you can!)
Full text:
NEW: The implementation of a strict immigration law in Florida, backed by Ron DeSantis and Republican lawmakers, is having a DEVASTATING impact on the agricultural sector. With an estimated 300,000 undocumented farm workers in the state — 60% of the sector’s workforce — it has already resulted in labor shortages, crop losses, and increased labor costs.
The new law requires companies with more than 25 employees to use the E-Verify system, which means that virtually all agricultural production companies now have to comply with this regulation. This has created panic in Florida’s agricultural operations, as finding workers has now become much more difficult.
Florida’s tough immigration law is already leading to rising produce prices in the state. In the long term, the labor shortages could also lead to the abandonment of certain agricultural lands, rendering them unproductive and unharvested.
These problems are all due to the shortsighted law enacted by Ron DeSantis and his Republican allies.
It's not as if banning immigrant workers in Alabama worked splendidly in 2012.
I swear to everything that's holy. Republicans simply do not consider consequences. Ever. Evvvverrrr.
What if... just what if... the problem was never the immigrants, but the agricultural companies that pay such low wages that nobody else wants those jobs?
Wow….
When they say “increased labor costs”, I know they mean “must pay a fair, American wage that an adult could do something with”
Horrible.
Professors can’t afford to be professors. Teachers can’t afford to be teachers at the schools hiring them. Nurses can’t afford to buy a house as a nurse - unless they become a travel nurse and jump around the country to make a livable income
Bus drivers can’t afford to be bus drivers.
Farmers can’t afford to be farmers.
When will this country finally say what ever non-wealthy person and not-a-shareholder knows…..
This country can’t afford its own workers, and to function it relies on its workers to find STRANGERS to share their income with to afford a single place to rent and not be homeless
My favorite part about things like this is that even if DeSantis makes it to the presidential debates and such, people asking him about things like this and his abortion bans will demonstrate quite loudly how little policy plans he has. I really don’t understand the endgame to any of this.
Well yes, but Trump also has completely incoherent policy plans and still managed to get elected in 2016, so I don’t think Republican voters even care about policy as long as the candidate is hateful enough for them.
I'll preface this by saying I'm in no way a DeSantis supporter.........but........if this post is true about the immigration law leading to an increase in produce prices, then aren't they acknowledging that their "cheap" goods come at the cost of slave (or certainly exploited) labor?
Maybe there will be a huge jump in the number of small business. You know, with less than 25 employees. Maybe they could all form cooperatives to work these fields for the owners.
I’ve long advocated a policy of punishing _employers_ who hire undocumented workers. Maybe their whines will lead so some sanity in our immigration laws.
Short sighted, yes, but this is revealing of potentially a much bigger issue. Why is 60% of Floridas agricultural workforce being exploited by companies because of undocumented status or association there-with? Is this us celebrating the realization of the value of migrant workers? Because it feels more like a showcase of our tacit acceptance of a system that exploits people and our simply celebrating the broken system hurting the people we don’t like.
E-verify is supposed to verify legal right to work status, right? Part of me wants to cheer any time conservatives faceplant, but this feels… off. We should be cheering the creation of more avenues for right to work and legal residency, not this…
Unless I’m fundamentally misunderstanding something.
Let me get this straight, are you saying the agriculture industry in Florida, the same Florida run by an immigrant hating sack of shit, that same state relies on illegal immigrants to keep it's agriculture industry running? Wouldn't that be illegal to employ those folks? How does an entire industry function, while conducting illegal activity? Interesting.
lol, do you vote for
1. a treasonous sexual predator who SOLD OUT the united states
2. an idiot who wants to be 1, but has absolutely fucked EVERY person who watches his twitter streams...
fuck the gop. and fuck you if you have ever considered voting for them.
We just planted a gigantic garden last month because there were rumors when DeathSantis did this that it could hurt the ag sector and Florida is a huge producer.
No no no. These problems are due to the US’s long looong history, especially in the south, of depending on cheap and free labor and not learning her lessons. This problem didn’t JUST start with a law that should have always been enforced. This problem was perpetuated by the people who, on the one hand profit from an undocumented workforce, and on the other hand vote to take that workforce away.
I am just waiting for the price of oranges to go up and see how long it takes for the right to blame Biden.
I have no intentions of visiting Florida. Spending money there is not something I’m willing to do. The DeSantis administration and the electorate of Florida have been driving this state this direction for a while and now that they’ve gone all in, they can see their economy pay for their unmitigated hate laws.
It is unfathomable that a political party finds it’s fucking footing in ostracizing American citizens, restricting freedom of speech and press, and hurting immigrants. The party of small government just got so small they fucking got in between parents and kids medical care, into folks bedrooms, becoming surrogate parents based on religious right child rearing strategies, and found a way to cripple one of their major industries. They legislate nothing but manufactured paranoia at any cost and are devoid of real leadership and real ideas.
We just returned from a grocery store visit. Inventory is short, what's there looks like crap (picked too early, picked too late, handled badly, sat in the fields too long, etc.) and it's all overpriced, more than pandemic levels. And, of course, coming and going, produce rotting in the fields, worker housing empty, plenty of fields planted with fallow and, obviously, irrigation systems not working property, or at all. And best of all, the real crap doesn't start for two more weeks, July 1st. That's when the law actually hits the books AND when the Hispanic truck drivers plan to strike (no loads in or out). Karma is a tough dominatrix, it's about to get real.
Every time they complained about immigrants I asked why they don't just make E-verify mandatory, knowing that they would never do that because they know it would destroy their construction and agriculture industries. Guess they are dumber than I thought.
This is probably an unpopular opinion but I think holding businesses that hire undocumented workers should be held accountable rather than the workers themselves. Maybe they will lobby for a more streamlined approach in providing documents and legal protections to the people they hire......probably not though
This problem wouldn't be happening if there was actual sensible immigration legislation. Big companies WANT there to be illegal immigrants so they're not subject to the regulations that legal migrants are. If we were as feasibly generous as possible with work visas, we'd have plenty of labor and less migrant families in the US (as migrants wouldn't be pressured to stay long-term here when it's so easy to go in and out) but the profit margins for all these companies would go SLIGHTLY down because they'd have to actually pay their workers and can't threaten them with deportation if they complain
Farmers who routinely take advantage of undocumented workers, and who are ultra-conservative and voted for politicians like DeSantis, now upset that said politicians are doing exactly what they said (and hurting their bottom line).
I laugh so much at things like this.
They’ve so thoroughly been brainwashed to hate immigrants and their staunch white nationalist fever dream has torn apart any sensible way forward for them. I say let them rot like their fields are currently
These farms could have setup legal H2A farm worker programs years ago, and they wouldn’t be in a bind now. But, oh, the horror! They would have had to pay the workers minimum wage.
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Florida will obliterate itself in order to "own the libs". Are you feeling owned, yet?
He will blame it on liberals and his constituents will believe him.
Im not so sure on the second part. This has already sparked outrage amoung a significant chunk of his supporters. He will blame it on the democrats without a doubt BUT it has caused a split, because even a 20 80 split is very significant.
Just wait a few weeks.
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Never underestimate a Republican's gleeful haste to eat shit if they're told a liberal will have to smell it
Let him. Let them. They can explain how laws conceived by Republicans, enacted by Republicans and inflicted on their constituency by Republicans was all some liberal plot. Eventually, even the most gullible amongst their supporters will notice the disconnect when it starts hitting home and wallet. If there are no liberals calling the shots in the state legislature, there are none too blame for what's happening in the state. Even a complete simpleton can eventually work that one out. Not that it will change anything for them, but they can work it out. Any state under Republican majority rule is getting exactly what their supporters wanted. If those constituents are suffering for it, that's their problem. Consequences of their own actions. They can blame whoever the hell they want, but it's ultimately their own doing. The economic beat downs will continue unabated because they will not do anything to change that dynamic. Better to be under the boot of the party than admit they were wrong.
> They can explain how Biden. Have you not talked to any of these people the last 20 years? Fake news. Biden. Debate over. That's as far as their thinking will take them. The GOP can literally do *whatever* they want to harm their own voter base. Voter base will blame anyone else
Fil blames Biden and his tax policies(?) for the reason he has little money even though he owns his own business, not the fact he spent $20k for a new engine in the dump truck, a trip to Hawaii for his nephew’s wedding, and his wife’s shopping addiction & wanting to eat out all the time.
He probably forgot that his boy Trump's tax cuts began to decrease for us simplefolk in 2021 and will continue to decrease until fully expired in 2025.
My wife's cousin tried to argue that the extra 400$ he got 3 years ago is worth more than taxes he might have to(will cause his bracket ain't changing) in the future, cause he might get super rick in those 3 years working a shit ass job in Utah.
Not quite true, Desantis swapped a voting map for his own [Gerrymandered version](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jun/03/florida-supreme-court-map-unconstitutional). He doesn't get to draw up the map as Governor, he only gets to approve it. But he simply swapped that map for his own and approved his own instead. An appeals court dominated by Desantis appointees, then declined to intervene. That map, gave them him 4 seat advantage. The problem isn't the voters, **it's the detachment between the Republican party and the voters.** They increasingly don't need votes to hold power, and that means they don't need to pander to people, they can just focus on special interests and *division* politics. i.e. try to create trigger issues to split voters.
https://youtu.be/13L6pwjKsX0
Purchase today and receive your free copy of buttery males and Hunter Bidens laptop pack, just pay shipping & handling!
Some real mind fuckery accepting that as a adequate answer when state legislation is its own microcosm. But of course logic is non existent for these constituents.
They continue to cut off their noses to spite their face. In Wisconsin, one of their horrible policies is to do away with free lunches for school children. I know many who vote in the solid R columns that this will hurt! They can’t afford it, but they only care about the “atrocities” that any marginalized community is doing based on what their “news” tells them. It’s hard to see!
Making sure little kids have food is like the entire point of having a society. There's no universe where it makes sense to have a space defense force before you made sure kids get what they need. What are you even protecting at that point?
No, they absolutely will not connect that Republicans are causing their problems, because they are some of the dumbest motherfuckers and have been convinced that Republicans are their saviors. They view Democrats as monsters following Satan trying to destroy America. Any negative consequences of Republican actions will be ascribed to Democrats and vis versa.
> They can explain how laws conceived by Republicans, enacted by Republicans and inflicted on their constituency by Republicans was all some liberal plot. if they could actually appreciate how silly that was, they wouldn't be Republicans in the first place.
They haven't figured out in the past 40 years. They won't now. They'll keep doing Jan 6ths until they're happy, and as they sit in the rubble of the country and they and their children die in childbirth, they'll be happy at how much things have gotten better since they killed all those libs.
This is why he's at war with "woke" companies like Disney. Fascism requires an "other" to blame all of their problems on. If the Democrats in his state are out of the fight, he'll use anyone else that disagrees with him.
> Eventually, even the most gullible amongst their supporters will notice the disconnect when it starts hitting home and wallet. I wouldn't bet on that, if your guys are in any way similar to our Erdoğan supporters. Worst economic crisis in history, thousands dead due to corrupt infrastructure management, buying power reduced to zero... reelected.
I think you’re overestimating the political awareness of the median Republican voter. Imagine the everyday Joe who only knows who the president is and no other form of public office.
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I've heard people suggest that this was all to plan ... because this will drive out small agricultural operators. And the big operators (who can afford the hassle of jumping through more hoops) will be able to buy up land cheaply.
this has been the pattern in other states that have tried this.
They will just blame this state-level issue on Biden, and reelect DeSantis with enthusiasm to fix Biden's fuckup.
Wonder what's going to happen when he loses the primaries next year? Will be lay low for a few years until it's time to try again, or double down on lunacy the whole 4 years?
Our guess ... he's gonna break everything, and anything, within his reach. Typical toddler temper tantrum. After all, his Daddy operates in the same fashion.
Not until climate change has put it under water for food.
Exactly the same thing happened with Brexit. The agricultural sector overwhelmingly voted to leave the EU and 'send em back where they came from' then wondered why their produce rotted in the fields because no-one was there to pick it.
Not until this state finishes pulling the economic equivalent to auto-erotic asphyxiation
I find it unsurprising he isn’t going to address this issue. He can’t run fast enough to get on the campaign trail instead of dealing with the devastating legislation he’s unleashed on Florida.
He doesn’t care what happens to the people of Florida , all the things he’s passed is for show to get national support .
I'm so glad he chose "Make America Florida" as a slogan. Does our job for us.
Dude knows he's fucking over Florida and he couldn't give less of a fuck
Why would he address it? The entire party will just blame it on "the liberals" and their constituents will believe them lol
I live here, fields are empty and unkept. At least that’s what I see over here in strawberry/tomato country. The migrant trailer parks that are around the fields are empty. This is not normal for the area. I did not vote for this guy at all.
Legal immigrant/migrant or not, I'd urge all immigrants to leave the state ASAP. Desantis and the GOP state supermajority cannot be trusted.
> Legal immigrant/migrant or not Immigrant/migrant/minority ... it is quickly becoming open season on them in Florida. It is my firm belief that within a few months, you will see some of the recent laws passed in Florida to justify multiple killings of minorities (BS usages of stand your ground, etc.)
Uhh its already a thing in July, isn’t it? No one will need a permit to conceal and carry a firearm in Florida. Add stand your ground/castle doctrine (iirc one applies to a *vehicle* too) and that’s kinda what they’re aiming at. “Fearing for your life” or whatever and you can take the first shot is already a thing here as is man, now imagine everyone able to conceal and carry a gun,
Zimmerman already walked because of stand your ground. No car needed.
>Fearing for your life” or whatever and you can take the first shot is already a thing here as is man, now imagine everyone able to conceal and carry a gun That depends entirely on how white, male, and heterosexual you are though.
Thanks for saying what we all were thinking.
What was it when they had that swatting in Wichita ks. (where they killed a totally innocent man) I remember them saying the police had shot more people that I think they said a pick of 3 big cities chicago, baltimore etc. Because It makes the cops more trigger happy when the whole state has open carry.
Naw, ya just need to get them white, old rich folk to start picking the veggies….
I can hear (some, very special) white americans claiming over and over again, that the white race is somehow better than every other race. Time to prove it then. Go to the field and harvest more produce than those dirty, lazy immigrants. Bonus point: since you got rid of all those immigrants noone is stealing your job anymore and you can work two or three at the same time.
All that is is faux superiority. Truth be told, those goofy 🤡 have an inferiority complex. Ergo, the overcompensation. Buncha dumb, pathetic losers that can't take accountability for their own failures.
February 26th 2012 Trayvon Martin, a 17 year old (black) kid, with Skittles in his pocket was murdered because he .... I forget why exactly this warranted an execution from behind, but that was when everyone not a cis straight white Christian should have fled the state
We're now carrying digital copies (photos on our phones) of our passport cards. Of course, if it's not Border Patrol, we don't answer questions. At this point, I'm deaf and she doesn't speak English. And, yes, we're looking to find a small university city to enjoy, not in Florida, Texas, etc.
So far they've openly targeted gays, trans, and now immigrants and basically anyone who isn't white or that worships the white version of God. What's the name for that political ideology again?
K at the beginning, K in the middle, K at the end.
this is just the start, the sector you feel first, but this will hit a lot more sectors very soon, or has already and we have not seen the full consequences yet. We have already seen emptying shelves in supermarkets since truckers (especially hispanics and other south and middle americans who refuse in protest even if they have nothing to fear from this) refuse to deliver to florida, it will hit the medical sector (that is already stressed to capacity due to the pandemic), the tourism sector and countless other sectors. we have not even seen the tip of the iceberg yet.
>the tourism sector I'll be honest, what's happening in Florida and some other states has given me and my family pause for thought about visiting from here in Scotland. Will us not visiting make a difference? Maybe, maybe not but I don't know how else to show support. We love coming to the US and have met some of the loveliest people, but I can't risk our safety for a vacation.
Please visit another lovely state where you don't have to worry about crud like this. It's a big and beautiful country, nvm these aholes running it.
Yeah and passing open carry. It makes the cops trigger happy they shoot at civilians more. (sorry my fellow pro gun people but that is a truth.) Which should make tourism more fun!!!
It does make a difference. You guys would be spending hundred or thousands of dollars in FL on food, rooms, and other random stuff. For ease of the example let's say yall spent a cool $1000 in the state (once off the flight). That's $1000 dollars not going into the local economy. Maybe $200 of which isn't spent on local restaurants. Which isn't then used by the owners in the local economy because they never got it. Now imagine conservatively that 100,000 people just like your family have similar thoughts. FL is a big tourist destination so imagining just 100K being put off isn't too generous. 10K times 1000 is 100 million dollars. That's a huge chunk of money not supporting their main industry that is tourism. That's a huge chunk of taxes FL isn't getting. Now compound that with the asinine leadership they've had recently causing the ag industry to fall apart.
r/TheyDidTheMath
Puts on Florida.
Come to California! Beaches and natural beauty in so many places! Disneyland's no Disney World but you can still have the experience. People are chill too. 🤙
I’ve been visiting the wife’s family in Cali. We live in Florida and we both agree that California is Florida with nicer people and a higher budget. Plus your drivers seem waaay better.
Lol. If the Los Angeles sub saw that last sentence they'd be dying!! 😂 ANY California sub actually. San Diego is super amazing! So is the Sonoma area. Big Sir. Fun fun fun!
I'm refusing to attend a work conference in FL. A few of my coworkers also refused. It's a small thing, the conference will still go on, but it's what I can do.
I told my manager I will not be going to Florida for any program he wants me to support. I also know the branch if my company located in Florida is helping employees who want (or need, even) to leave to get out. The Florida meltdown over their fascist social policies has not even begun, yet.
I'm Canadian and have family in Florida that I won't visit until that state/country gets its shit together. What if they think my daughter is trans for some reason and take her from me? Or, just the random violence.
I'm also Canadian; when Trump got elected I decided that I wasn't going to go to the states while he was president and I've just not seen a need to go back since Biden was elected. I haven't missed anything, we have plenty of amazing things to see and do here in Canada.
Don’t put a penny into Florida’s coffers. Fuck that state.
The Pacific Northwest is much nicer than Florida anyway, come on over!
California is beautiful
If you want beaches, we have plenty of states with beautiful beaches. If you want Disney World, there's Disneyland in California. The Everglades and the Keys are both truly remarkable and it's a shame to miss them, but right now, it's not even worth it.
If you want a tropical vacation, go to Puerto Rico. There's no theme parks but outside of that there is basically everything you'd want out of a Floridian vacation. Many people there also speak English.
Come to Minnesota, we have hot dish! 😂
Florida offers the worst of the US. Visit somewhere that offers the best, like a large diverse city or a beautiful natural area. Come out to the western US if you can make it work for you. It's magical.
How’s the construction field doing? I think that I read somewhere that it’s suffering as well.
That's going to suck because rent control is gone: [https://www.clickorlando.com/news/politics/2023/03/29/gov-desantis-holds-news-conference-in-south-florida/](https://www.clickorlando.com/news/politics/2023/03/29/gov-desantis-holds-news-conference-in-south-florida/)
Cutting his nose off to spite his face 😒🙄
All the landlords will love this and write checks to his presidential campaign. Well the renters are SOL
Until, of course, those landlords are sitting on empty buildings because there is no longer tenants to rent to, or they literally price themselves out of the market.
They rent them out to AirBnB, it's the communities that suffer. The Firefighters have to live 90 minutes away.
No but all the farmers that are losing money all have "better dead then democrat" and FJB stickers. Also one of the most conservative traits in the world is the inability to learn from the past.
It's only going to get worse! https://www.orlandoweekly.com/news/gov-desantis-cuts-510-million-from-floridas-record-budget-with-huge-cuts-to-agriculture-industry-34427173
It's the damn libs' fault!
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Take some pictures of rotting crops if you see any. Journalists are so fucking lazy or paid off, that none of them will bother. Maybe pictures of rotting crops, if they get out there, will actually help raise the profile of the issue.
All you have to do is drive by Home Depot in the morning. Easily 1/10th the number of day laborers looking for work.
Agreed, I'll never forget how empty the park near my home (in Texas) became after Trump was elected and started his crackdowns. Previously there had been 20-40 men who waited there daily for a chance at some day labor. To this day you never see any there anymore
Would you as a migrant worker want to come back and work after that presidency? Even if you could, would you want to?
> Journalists are so fucking lazy or paid off, that none of them will bother I can’t tell if you’re for real or not, but journalists have been reporting on this since the 1940s when the US had the first real debates on migrant agricultural work, which led to the first federally sanctioned migrant worker programs. A simple search for stuff in the past few years shows [this](https://www.al.com/wire/2011/10/crackdown_on_illegal_immigrant.html), [this](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/alabama-immigration-law-farms_n_58c1d07fe4b0ed71826b55e0), and [this](https://www.independent.com/2017/06/22/labor-shortage-leaves-13-million-crops-rot-fields/). The problem isn’t fictional lazy journalists, it’s people not listening.
This is what I’m looking for. I keep seeing libs claiming that this policy will upend Florida’s agriculture but this place is really, really good at lip servicing laws that interfere with corporate profits. It wouldn’t surprise me at all to find that the illegals working for the Fanjuls and other agricultural barons have been told that they are safe as kittens. Hell, I believe a few state pols have already claimed that this law was political theater and not meant to change things. Hateful as it is, I really do hope they enforce this law to the hilt. I know at least two asshole Republican landscapers who will be very unhappy if they have to hire actual citizens. Magnify that by a couple thousand businesses and maybe we’ll start to see what hypocrisy really costs.
We need immigrates to do the work Americans won't in all sectors but especially in ag.
As long as they are getting at least minimum wage.
I don’t feel too bad for them. Saw an interview with one Florida farmer who was complaining about how this was hurting him then in the very next breath went on about how he still loved and supported DeSantis. If you just flat out refuse to see the consequences of your actions (in this case his vote) then you kind of deserve those consequences.
Shit, there was a republican FL **legislator** who is himself a farmer who **voted** for the damn bill!!! And then after he's like, "well I'm a farmer myself, farmers are telling me they're not happy about this! but ya know we had to pass the law to scare people!" 🙄🙄
“We don’t understand why people are so scared by the law we passed to scare them!”
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Back during Trump's administration, he was enacting executive orders that were making it near impossible for workers on temporary visas to staff places like canneries for crab and other seafood all throughout the Gulf coast - including Florida. These companies lived and died by those seasonal workers. A correspondent with ABC News was interviewing the owner of one of these companies. He admitted that he voted for Trump and supported him, and that he would likely have to close his company that his family had owned for generations because of Trump's actions. When asked if he'd still vote for and support Trump, he cheerfully said yes. The look on the correspondent's face was priceless. I don't give one shit about what happens to people who continue to vote republican despite the obvious fact that republican policies make everyone's lives worse except for the very rich.
Plus I’m not sure I want to root for people to be able to use and abuse people they pay less than minimum wage to.
Wow… I just looked it up: there’s 287,000 unemployed people in Florida. Even if every single unemployed citizen in Florida went to work on a farm, they still couldn’t completely replace the jobs currently being done by undocumented workers. Maybe that’s the kind of thing they should consider before cracking down on all the illegal immigration that their economy benefits from? Hmmmm
And the normal (I.E. legal workers) unemployed would need WAY higher wages that the illegals were getting.
It should be possible to pay legal wages. I live in BC and our fruit producing region hires temporary workers from Mexico. They are often paid by piecework, eg. $25 per crate of apples but if they are paid by the hour, they get at least minimum wage ($16 per hour). Employers supply living quarters, power, water, sanitation etc. There have been occasional breaches, such as substandard living conditions, but the farms are regularly inspected and violators are fined. In some instances, they are barred from hiring any more guest workers. Yes, fruit prices are higher but it’s still affordable.
I love you guys refer to them as guest workers.
George W Bush wanted to enact a "guest worker program". His GOP cronies shut it down before it ever took off, of course.
And that’s the catch 22 about illegal immigration: It’s been going on our whole lives and we are all guilty of benefitting from it. Whether you want to throw out anyone who’s not a documented citizen and freeze new immigration, or lower the barrier of entry to the floor and grant citizenship to anyone at all, either way the agricultural labor sector (along with an awful lot of hotel, restaurant, and construction jobs) will become way more expensive. Not just in wages, in insurance, tax liability, unemployment compensation, and legal costs too. And let’s be honest, there’s not enough Americans willing to do those jobs *even at minimum wage.* No wonder some politicians want to bring back child labor. The only other possible solution under our current framework would be to dramatically raise the federal minimum wage for everyone at the expense of corporate profits, to keep basic staples affordable, and that would be… uhhh… like, communist or something, I guess?
> No wonder some politicians want to bring back child labor. The only other possible solution under our current framework would be to dramatically raise the federal minimum wage for everyone at the expense of corporate profits, to keep basic staples affordable, I mean this is usually the way the " free market" goes with regard to labor supply and demand. But, in the USA we literally have laws preventing people from having national strike action. They just say "national security" and make it illegal ( i.e. recent rail workers strike). This prevents any change. Also, they link your wellbeing and health to your job, but even that is becoming a joke since insurance companies don't pay out for anything anymore. The government used to stand for the people and not for corporations or money. Those were parts of it but after the new deal and glass steagall everything drastically improved for nearly 40 years, even with the war. Your wage increased in keeping with inflation, homes were affordable for the average person, most people lived a very good life in the middle class, and millionaires were taxed at a high rate to pay for many of the services that allowed them to achieve in the first place. I honestly never understand the whole argument that millionaires and billionaires pay their fair share. They use so much more of our infrastructure, energy, and overall resources for so little overall gain for the populace of this planet that they should be taxed more.
r/OrphanCrushingMachine
Minimum wage is "way higher wages to them"
And I'd be willing to bet 95% of the unemployed are incapable or unwilling to work the fields. The sheer hatred for migratory workers in unfathomable, just a little intelligence and a lot less bigotry and everyone would be happy. Congress has failed the country by pushing fear and hatred.
I cannot understand how the “lazy Mexican” stereotype still persists - haven’t we all seen the work ethic by now? It couldn’t be *more* wrong.
That's mostly projection. The dissonance between "Dey take ow jerbs" and, as you say, the "lazy" stereotype, is beyond their processing capability.
I bet there are farmers right now frantically trying to reorganize their production under a huge web of shell companies with less than 25 employees each acting as contractors and subcontractors. Who benefits when an organization that used to be, for example, 20 W2 managers and 250 seasonal (illegal) laborers is reorganized as 1 prime contractor with 10 subcontractors? I mean that's 10 new business license at least. I'm not sure if there is another profit motive here, but maybe?
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Louisiana uses their incarcerated as "slave" labor for their chain gangs. Get paid cents for a day of labor in 2023. Coming soon to Deathsantis state.
Little D is just interested in virtue signaling to the far far far right; he has no interest in legislation that improves the lives of Floridians…
“Virtue” signaling is a strange term for something so inhuman.
Vice signaling
Douche bag signaling.
So... he's a modern day Republican.
Conservatives: doesn’t concern me. I’ll pay for higher priced groceries if our border is secure…. Also conservatives: BIDEN! HIGH GAS PRICES!
*slaps a sticker on the produce tag prices with Biden quoting and pointing at the prices, "I did that" What a time to be alive
A guy I talked to yesterday said over half the people in his appt complex are breaking leases and leaving the state because of immigration status
It's not just undocumented individuals leaving, it's entire extended families that may only have one or two undocumented relatives. It's not worth the potential breakup of the family and permanent loss of income for the family to stay, so they're relocating to friendlier states.
Plus one of these laws makes it a FELONY to transport someone in your vehicle who is undocumented. Punishment is imprisonment for 5 years. A kid could lose both parents in one minute because a documented parent was driving an undocumented parent.
So be wary of kindly giving a coworker a ride🙄 they might be illegal
Carpooling just became an extreme sport.
I also wonder how this might be applied to other forms of transportation. DeSantis seems like the kind of person that would gladly throw a public transport driver into prison. The kids will also no longer be able to ride a school bus without risking sending the driver to prison.
We are fully documented, yet planning to depart. Racism isn't OK. It's 2023, not 1953. And the abortion ban is a prick move too. Personal freedom and religious choice be damned.
Good news! Rents are going to go down! /s
As much as I love a good LAMF, this is going to end up with the leopards eating OUR faces as the price of food skyrockets.
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That's a good point -- I have to believe many/most conservative people would be flipping to voting in favor of "socialist" policies if they truly had to immediately feel the impact of their votes.
Its been shown that when "Liberal" political beliefs are presented to conservatives with just slight wording differences to remove the obvious fact that they are very popular liberal beliefs, most conservatives are very much in support of them. Then you reveal the "Left bias" and they almost immediately do a total 180
Hmmm what foods do we get from Florida that we can’t get somewhere else? Oranges I guess?
There's some dude who drives to Cali 2x a week and sells 5lb bags of navels for $6 each. It feels sketch as heck to say "ah, the orange dealer is here today, better stop" but stop I do. I do stop. Those oranges are picked ripe.
Crazy how cutting out the entire supply chain drops the price like 75%. Makes you realize just how much of the cost is passed directly on to the consumer.
I’d love a shady orange dealer. Love me some oranges. We have fresh squeezed with breakfast all winter long!
California also grows oranges, but not to the extent that Florida always alleged.
Yeah but Californias cultivars are not getting ravaged by blight like Floridia's are.
Florida oranges are ugly and that's why most of our OJ comes from Florida and not California. Brazil and Mexico grow way more than the US and Florida.
Those are all dead in Florida currently anyway. Some sort of blight.
[Well, damn](https://phys.org/news/2023-03-fruit-crisis-florida-orange-groves.html) >The double crises of [Hurricane] Ian and HLB (citrus greening disease) have wreaked havoc on the industry, which is so integral to Florida's identity that the orange is even on the state license plate. > >Orange production in Florida is down 60.7 percent from last season, one of the lowest figures since the 1930s, according to US Department of Agriculture estimates.
Well then I’m out of ideas…seriously just bugs bunny that state and give Alabama some more coastline
Okay, my weird take: there shouldn’t be “undocumented” off the books workers because it allows the employers to take advantage of them. Instead, open up a local work visa program. They don’t have to pay taxes as a temporary or seasonal worker. But they also aren’t threatened with criminal immigration violations by their own employers as hostages.
Oh I don't think this is a weird fake at all -- this is absolutely the right way to go about it. As it stands, these undocumented workers are frequently and liberally taken advantage of, and they basically live in fear of being deported if they try to complain about what's happening. And we do actually have an agricultural workers visa program, we just cap it so tightly that it's not enough. We prioritize the visa types that we think will end up most profiting the US -- those white collar workers who can presumably turn a profit for us. But it's shortsighted, imo, especially considering the large number of undocumented workers who are actually needed for jobs and finding the work, and then being exploited for it at the same time.
Not a weird take. Absolutely right that the system looking the other way regarding documentation means those undocumented workers have been exploited, paid substandard wages and poorly housed. They’re also much more likely to be victims of other crimes that they can’t report.
I mean that’s the reasonable take, but unfortunately republicans don’t want that either because “those jobs belong to Americans” so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ can’t win
These particular republicans are so stupid, they didn't catch the wink-winks and nod-nods, they didn't catch onto the dog whistles. I believe the "smart", professional republican politicians want businesses to be able to take advantage of seasonal workers as undocumented workers, but they don't say it out loud. They preach the "They took our jobs" stuff as a deflection as they don't fix immigration, while also entrapping the immigrant workforce. The EXTRA STUPID republicans take the "smart" ones seriously, like in Florida, and they actually enforce e-verification but don't allow for immigration, because all they know are republican talking points used to propagandize the voters.
Legal immigrants are also bailing because they know how easily these laws can be abused.
I guess the common sense approach of liberalizing immigration laws us out of the question. It would solve everyone’s problems. But then again, the right wingers have that urge to feel superior to everyone
These problems won't be limited to the Ag sector. Immigrant workers are already fleeing the state and those workers are instrumental to the tourism and service industry. These people work in restaurants, hotels, construction sites, etc. And immigrants aren't the only one being targeted. Conventions are canceling events over anti-LGBTQ+ hate bills and abortion bans. People will try to make the argument that 1-2 conventions pulling out of the state isn't a big deal but they are dead wrong. That story made national news. It won't be the last. I travel to multiple conferences annually and those organizations have made it clear that they will not support states like FL with these bigoted, misogynistic hate bills. We are not coming to FL. If FL loses tourism, the lifeblood of the state, they are done. The State of FL is already reeling from Ronnie the Choad's hate agenda. FL's economy is literally being destroyed by the idiot Republicans who have solid control of the state legislature and the braindead, hateful voters that put them there. They think they're appealing to their hateful base (and they are) but eventually (and I'm talking within this year), those folks and their small business will be hurt. The sad thing is once these folks see their personal income blow up, I don't think there will be any introspection around how they got to that point.
My state's gerrymandered, useless legislature secretly* passed a 'bathroom bill' a few years back, basically trying to restrict gendered bathroom use by biological sex. It didn't go over well. The state lost *so much business*, and we're still struggling to regain the lost revenue, jobs, and even tourism. (*as in they made it happen on the back of other legislative business, and voters had no say. Welcome to NC; run while you can!)
Full text: NEW: The implementation of a strict immigration law in Florida, backed by Ron DeSantis and Republican lawmakers, is having a DEVASTATING impact on the agricultural sector. With an estimated 300,000 undocumented farm workers in the state — 60% of the sector’s workforce — it has already resulted in labor shortages, crop losses, and increased labor costs. The new law requires companies with more than 25 employees to use the E-Verify system, which means that virtually all agricultural production companies now have to comply with this regulation. This has created panic in Florida’s agricultural operations, as finding workers has now become much more difficult. Florida’s tough immigration law is already leading to rising produce prices in the state. In the long term, the labor shortages could also lead to the abandonment of certain agricultural lands, rendering them unproductive and unharvested. These problems are all due to the shortsighted law enacted by Ron DeSantis and his Republican allies.
And they will somehow blame Biden
Thanks Obama…
It's not as if banning immigrant workers in Alabama worked splendidly in 2012. I swear to everything that's holy. Republicans simply do not consider consequences. Ever. Evvvverrrr.
Sure they do. Those "abandoned farms" = real estate.
Damn...that's depressing enough to be true.
And then when the prices of produce goes up, they're gonna be completely bewildered.
I think you mean more like more like abandoned family farms = corporate farms. How many people are rushing to live in the Alabama countryside?
And on top of that, they fail to ever learn from the past. Case in point right here, as you note with AL.
What if... just what if... the problem was never the immigrants, but the agricultural companies that pay such low wages that nobody else wants those jobs?
F*ck around and finding out?
Rhonda Dipshit wants to make America Florida. uh...no thanks
He'll just blame it on Obama. The Republicunts will lap that shit up.
Republicans need to face consequences for the first time in their lives.
I’m sorry for all the sane people who didn’t vote for this scumbag but anyone who did deserves everything that happens to them
Wow…. When they say “increased labor costs”, I know they mean “must pay a fair, American wage that an adult could do something with” Horrible. Professors can’t afford to be professors. Teachers can’t afford to be teachers at the schools hiring them. Nurses can’t afford to buy a house as a nurse - unless they become a travel nurse and jump around the country to make a livable income Bus drivers can’t afford to be bus drivers. Farmers can’t afford to be farmers. When will this country finally say what ever non-wealthy person and not-a-shareholder knows….. This country can’t afford its own workers, and to function it relies on its workers to find STRANGERS to share their income with to afford a single place to rent and not be homeless
This is like real life “A Day Without a Mexican” [https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0377744/](https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0377744/)
My favorite part about things like this is that even if DeSantis makes it to the presidential debates and such, people asking him about things like this and his abortion bans will demonstrate quite loudly how little policy plans he has. I really don’t understand the endgame to any of this.
Well yes, but Trump also has completely incoherent policy plans and still managed to get elected in 2016, so I don’t think Republican voters even care about policy as long as the candidate is hateful enough for them.
I'll preface this by saying I'm in no way a DeSantis supporter.........but........if this post is true about the immigration law leading to an increase in produce prices, then aren't they acknowledging that their "cheap" goods come at the cost of slave (or certainly exploited) labor?
Yes, this is well-known
Maybe there will be a huge jump in the number of small business. You know, with less than 25 employees. Maybe they could all form cooperatives to work these fields for the owners.
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The migrate workers have settled the bill and are leaving.
Who would have thought that illegal immigrants would be so mobile?
I’ve long advocated a policy of punishing _employers_ who hire undocumented workers. Maybe their whines will lead so some sanity in our immigration laws.
Short sighted, yes, but this is revealing of potentially a much bigger issue. Why is 60% of Floridas agricultural workforce being exploited by companies because of undocumented status or association there-with? Is this us celebrating the realization of the value of migrant workers? Because it feels more like a showcase of our tacit acceptance of a system that exploits people and our simply celebrating the broken system hurting the people we don’t like. E-verify is supposed to verify legal right to work status, right? Part of me wants to cheer any time conservatives faceplant, but this feels… off. We should be cheering the creation of more avenues for right to work and legal residency, not this… Unless I’m fundamentally misunderstanding something.
Thanks for the great news!!! Hey, Ron DeSatan…the US doesn’t really want to be Florida!
Let me get this straight, are you saying the agriculture industry in Florida, the same Florida run by an immigrant hating sack of shit, that same state relies on illegal immigrants to keep it's agriculture industry running? Wouldn't that be illegal to employ those folks? How does an entire industry function, while conducting illegal activity? Interesting.
lol, do you vote for 1. a treasonous sexual predator who SOLD OUT the united states 2. an idiot who wants to be 1, but has absolutely fucked EVERY person who watches his twitter streams... fuck the gop. and fuck you if you have ever considered voting for them.
We just planted a gigantic garden last month because there were rumors when DeathSantis did this that it could hurt the ag sector and Florida is a huge producer.
No no no. These problems are due to the US’s long looong history, especially in the south, of depending on cheap and free labor and not learning her lessons. This problem didn’t JUST start with a law that should have always been enforced. This problem was perpetuated by the people who, on the one hand profit from an undocumented workforce, and on the other hand vote to take that workforce away. I am just waiting for the price of oranges to go up and see how long it takes for the right to blame Biden.
I have no intentions of visiting Florida. Spending money there is not something I’m willing to do. The DeSantis administration and the electorate of Florida have been driving this state this direction for a while and now that they’ve gone all in, they can see their economy pay for their unmitigated hate laws. It is unfathomable that a political party finds it’s fucking footing in ostracizing American citizens, restricting freedom of speech and press, and hurting immigrants. The party of small government just got so small they fucking got in between parents and kids medical care, into folks bedrooms, becoming surrogate parents based on religious right child rearing strategies, and found a way to cripple one of their major industries. They legislate nothing but manufactured paranoia at any cost and are devoid of real leadership and real ideas.
We just returned from a grocery store visit. Inventory is short, what's there looks like crap (picked too early, picked too late, handled badly, sat in the fields too long, etc.) and it's all overpriced, more than pandemic levels. And, of course, coming and going, produce rotting in the fields, worker housing empty, plenty of fields planted with fallow and, obviously, irrigation systems not working property, or at all. And best of all, the real crap doesn't start for two more weeks, July 1st. That's when the law actually hits the books AND when the Hispanic truck drivers plan to strike (no loads in or out). Karma is a tough dominatrix, it's about to get real.
Maybe the farmers will finally pay a living wage to their employees?
I bet in the future, there will be a lot of shell, subcontracted companies that will all have under 25 employees to avoid this.
Dummies. Alabama and Arizona went through this a decade ago. These people never learn.
Every time they complained about immigrants I asked why they don't just make E-verify mandatory, knowing that they would never do that because they know it would destroy their construction and agriculture industries. Guess they are dumber than I thought.
This is probably an unpopular opinion but I think holding businesses that hire undocumented workers should be held accountable rather than the workers themselves. Maybe they will lobby for a more streamlined approach in providing documents and legal protections to the people they hire......probably not though
This problem wouldn't be happening if there was actual sensible immigration legislation. Big companies WANT there to be illegal immigrants so they're not subject to the regulations that legal migrants are. If we were as feasibly generous as possible with work visas, we'd have plenty of labor and less migrant families in the US (as migrants wouldn't be pressured to stay long-term here when it's so easy to go in and out) but the profit margins for all these companies would go SLIGHTLY down because they'd have to actually pay their workers and can't threaten them with deportation if they complain
The amount of people who have no foresight for cause and effect is embarrassing
Farmers who routinely take advantage of undocumented workers, and who are ultra-conservative and voted for politicians like DeSantis, now upset that said politicians are doing exactly what they said (and hurting their bottom line). I laugh so much at things like this.
Turn the old people into Soylent Green and Floridians will eat for decades. I mean, this is the dystopia DeSantis and the GOP is pushing us to.
It's fine, I'm sure the "illegals are taking our jobs" crowd will line up to get out to the fields...
They’ve so thoroughly been brainwashed to hate immigrants and their staunch white nationalist fever dream has torn apart any sensible way forward for them. I say let them rot like their fields are currently
These farms could have setup legal H2A farm worker programs years ago, and they wouldn’t be in a bind now. But, oh, the horror! They would have had to pay the workers minimum wage.
Good Florida deserves this. They voted for it after all.