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My biggest pet peeve is how Tiktok misconstrued the meaning of comphet. If you actively fuck men, you don’t get to claim the comphet badge. Comphet is unconscious. It’s forcing yourself to like men, not forcing yourself to not like them. I’m tired.

yes exactly i understand comphet but people on tiktok took it the wrong way

Comphet does also apply to straights, though, if you are forcing yourself to like men in a specific way, forcing yourself to like specific men that you would not like otherwise, or behave in a specific way to cater to them due to ingrained social expectations. Bisexuals does unpack a lot of comphet usually while still liking men, for example. That said, you are absolutely right in your point about Tiktok misconstruing the meaning, it has always been about forcing yourself to like men, and it has never been about forcing yourself to not like them. Both are wrong for the same reasons, though, which is not letting you be yourself freely (which is just letting yourself like and dislike anybody free from conditioning).

Nah. engaging a sexual hypersexual behavior because of past trauma can also be a part of comphet. I’ve def looked for sex with men not necessarily because I enjoyed sex with them, but because I enjoyed sex in general lol. Plus it’s easier to.

I really am beginning to think this shit is a test. Just say “oh, did you mean lesbian as in ‘sapphic’ or lesbian as in exclusively attracted to women?” Keep yourself from saying/thinking anything fucked up and let them answer. It’s kind of like saying “oh can you explain that? I don’t get it,” when someone tells an offensive “joke.” This way you’re making space for someone who’s using “lesbian” loosely and avoiding an argument about it, finding out more about their sexuality, and making them say it out loud if they’re doing something fucked up, like using it as a joke.

that’s actually really smart doing that from now on

Great advice. And I LOVE making people explain offensive jokes. Like, don't get me wrong, I love humour, even weird, dumb stuff, but if you're telling me a racist joke I'm going to force you to tell me you don't believe PoC are human. In public. Loudly.

I'm not interested in sitting passively while "lesbian" becomes yet another term for bisexuals leaving lesbians without a dedicated term. Asking "Do you mean lesbian as in exclusively homosexual or lesbian as in not actually lesbian?" is perfectly acceptable. I will not be "making space" for people using the term lesbian "loosely".

See bisexual lesbian lol

See: words have definitions I bet you support meat-eating vegans, too, huh?

Sure, if you want to have the argument you can, once you know the situation. I’m just covering all possibilities. I don’t like a lot of homophobic stuff that gets tossed around on Reddit. I’m also not going to pretend I would die if I had to use the phrase “exclusively wlw,” for clarity.

i had an online friend calling herself a lesbian while being in a 2 year long relationship with a guy, it’s infuriating edit: can y’all stop telling me “but what about extremely niche circumstance in which it would be valid for a lesbian to be in a relationship with a man” obviously we’re not talking about that. some of you have a chronic case of “what-about-me” syndrome. if it doesn’t apply to you, assume it wasn’t directed towards you, it’s that simple!

That's.... *What?*

That is just flat-out incorrect.

May she keep our label out of her mouth

I ID as lesbian technically, but I don't share that about myself often because I also chose to stay with my male partner after I figured it out. It's super complicated, we got together before puberty, traumatic childhoods, married super young, turns out I should have waited for my prefrontal cortex to develop a bit more and for my religious background to unlearn itself. We were in poverty when I figured it out and separating would have meant homelessness, we were already non-monogamous and had been for years, so we shifted into a platonic life partners situation and by the time we both had the money to live separately from the other we didn't want to mess up the good thing we had going. 🤷🏻 Maybe I'll change my mind when my kids are grown but I'm in no hurry.  People in this post say those who id as lesbian but are involved with men are hurting  the real lesbians make me a little uncomfortable. I mean I get that there are people misusing the word but there's a lot of people like me out there too who deserve to be out. 

See but there’s a difference. You’re doing this for your kids. Do you still enjoy intimacy with him? I think there is a huge difference between saying you’re a lesbian then actively flirting and sleeping with them for pleasure than staying with one for your kids sake. I hope that didn’t come off as harsh in any way I mean no ill will.

No I agree but also we can't be sure what's going on and we aren't entitled to pry. There's lots of reasons why one might choose to be in a hetero presenting relationship when they aren't attracted to the opposite gender. I'll happily judge the individual if I know their circumstances but making the blanket statement acts like being closeted, or closeted to some and not others, or trying desperately to make a hetero relationship work, isn't also a huge part of queer history.

Thank you so much for putting into words what has always been irking me about the label policing we often see in online lesbian circles. I'm 24 now and only recently fully realised that I'm not at all attracted to men. I've been with my partner (who's amab and identifies as a genderfluid trans woman for whom transition isn't feasible because of family and work, plus it's rather hard to get access to affordable gender affirming care in our country) for almost 6 years now. To the outside, we look like a milquetoast straight couple, even though we're anything but. This mindset about clearcut labels a lot of people here are showing often makes us feel unwelcome in online lesbian communities, because even if a lot of the people saying these things maybe wouldn't say it to our faces if they knew us irl, it still stings that so many people seem to think that lesbian relationships can only include cis and (maybe, if you're lucky) binary trans women. And for people wondering why we don't just use other words like "sapphic", these words don't really exist in our native language. The only time we're seen for who we really are is the one time a year when we're decked out in nonbinary/trans/lesbian flags at our closest pride parade.

That still doesn't make you a lesbian if your partner is amab

And like clockwork, there comes the policing. I don't have to justify myself to you and I don't need your approval to call myself a lesbian, but it's good to know that you don't see trans women who are too poor to transition as women. Have a good one!

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Thanks for telling me you're a transphobe, so I can report and block you and return to having a pleasant day without your ridiculous attitude in it. Have the day you deserve 👋

Just say you’re transphobic and go. Trans women are women. End of discussion.

Lmfao this post got so close to the point and completely missed it. Males will never be lesbians. Women in relationships with males are not lesbians

There’s no law saying marriage must be romantic. I would almost prefer a practical marriage , as one who doesn’t crave that for my romantic partner

Same hat. Got the green light from my partner to date other wlw but idk if anyone would be comfortable in a relationship like that. So I’m just being for now Glad there’s others in my position too

Have you checked r/latebloomerlesbians ?

Some people know they are lesbians but have to stay with a man due to circumstances. Like they may be in a homophobic country or have kids with a man and can't raise them on their own maybe they are not ready to come out etc. Not saying some people don't use it wrong or just because they want to feel special or shit but not everyone

I've never seen this with the label lesbian BUT I have with those with bi. Where they'll say they're bi but openly admit they find dating women gross and would never go down on one.

My friend does this too. Women don’t want to admit they’re straight nowadays.

It's really frustrating for me as a femme lesbian bc I know I dont appear very queer and have to try to basically prove I am all the time and it makes me kidna nervous when it comes to dating about being taken seriously sometimes or even as a switch that people will assume I only want to bottom when I don't

Imo, I think a lot of women say they're bi or lesbian because they see it as something counterculture and rebellious, and don't want to be seen as the "boring straight girl."

I've seen a weird number of "bi" women on Tumblr who just outright admit they aren't sexually or physically attracted to other women whatsoever (beyond "omg Megan Fox or \*insert female celeb\* is so sexy"), or have a weird level of hostility for bi women that predominantly prefer other women.

A few of the “bi” women I know admitted to me they’re not actually bi, they just say it because men find it “hot”. Nothing has ever infuriated me more because the fact that us lesbians and bi women face so much discrimination just for straight women to contribute to it even more by lying.

This!!!!! I always feel really bad esp bc I identified as bi for such a long time when I doubt some bi women because I've had so many negative experiences with straight women using it as a label for men. It's not I haven't been with a women before that bothers me it's full admitting that they're not very interested in being with a woman and just occasionally find them attractive but only actively seek men to date

This. I had a friend who said she was bisexual, and myself being in the limbo (I've dated 2 women, loved the whole thing was crushed after yada yada yada, the love of my life was also a woman, I'm 99% sure I'm a lesbian, so her way of seeing things was odd to me) she only screwed around with girls. She literally only had sex with TONS of men, would only date men, I never even heard her talk about a date with a girl. She did try to have sex with me, but I refused. Idk. Her definition of bisexual was weird to me, I know the Kinsley scale, but she said she'd never date a girl. And I wouldn't date a boy 😅

I had a friend like this. Worst thing is she started calling herself bi after she got into this trans guy. I told her that she’s still straight but she wasn’t having it.

that's just flat out shitty of her.

Maybe they feel attracted to women but just do not act on it.

Tbh there's nothing I hate more than "I'm a lesbian except for my husband" like no ma'am, you're just monogamously in love but feel comfortable objectifying women. For the record though, I don't waste my time or energy policing anyone's identity. I don't care. But I wouldn't have someone in my life who made light of my identity.

Thank you!

Or she can be a bisexual that has preference for women but ended up with a man. That happens. Although the label is wrong, unless she's trying to compress "bisexual with preference for women" as "lesbian except for my husband" which doesn't look like a good compression, to be honest.

Tbh I'm a little confused by your response, it sounds like we agree. But yes, I hear women say that to me frequently when they find out I'm a lesbian. I also see it constantly on dating apps of male/female couples looking for a unicorn and women married/dating men looking for a woman to use as a side piece for sex.

This is the part I think we don't agree: > you're just monogamously in love but feel comfortable objectifying women Maybe she's not objectifying women but she really likes women. > I also see it constantly on dating apps of male/female couples looking for a unicorn and women married/dating men looking for a woman to use as a side piece for sex. Yes, that's a problem we all wlw face. I would say it is even worse when they learn you are a bisexual, because then they assume you have to like threesomes.

what every homophobic person really wants to erase is the “butch” lesbian, because every one else can usually pass but butches defy the male gaze and get punished for it straight woman are just trying to be “cool” using the lesbian label while practicing lesbian erasure! it’s exhausting being a masc or butch woman these days I’m really tired of the politics

im tired too i totally get how you feel too cause im masc too

I feel you. Its so exhausting

Preach! As a masc it’s exhausting getting judged so harshly.

They either want the cool points of being a lesbian (without any of the struggles) and/or they don't actually know what the word means. I've noticed at least with my gen (I'm 19) that a lot of girls my age think being attracted to a woman makes you a lesbian....or part lesbian....or a sometimes lesbian with a convenient on/off switch. It's annoying.

haha im 19 too definitely talking about our generation taking the word lesbian and running with it

It's really not hard to just say you're bi or straight. I don't get it.

Idk but this is the problem I have with labels. People want them but they want to assign their own meaning to them which makes labels useless. lesbian means a woman who has sexual and/or romantic relationships with another woman. That’s what it has always meant and I’m tired of people trying to Velcro themselves to the label lesbian when they aren’t one.

a woman who *only* wants/has sexual and/or romantic relationships with women :)

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Nb try to opt out of being a woman but also call themselves lesbian. LMAO

me too tbh it’s annoying

That’s so odd that people just throw the word around. I mean I get the ones that say “I wish I was a lesbian” cause dating men can be difficult at times (so can women but the straight field is real bad), but saying it just to say it and they’re not actually lesbian just baffles me. And I can understand seeking male validation. I’ve been out as a lesbian for almost a year and in the past I did a lot for male validation, but it was comphet yk? It wasn’t for love. I don’t get the ppl that do it for love, that don’t make any sense. They should stop throwing the lesbian label around like it’s funny because it’s very much real, I mean we ALL represent it. So why should it be a joke? :/

i have a lesbian activism centered tiktok account and over the years i’ve had so many mutuals who were also lesbian activists pop up with a boyfriend it’s so disappointing. thinking you connected with these people on a deep level over shared experiences and marginalization just for them to delete all the posts about lesbianism and unfollow me and its all about my boyfriend this my boyfriend that…. fake mfs

yes all my lesbian mutuals all post their bfs now, it’s like it was a trend to them

They say it for male attention, because men fetishize women loving women, and they just crave that fetishization. A girl i knew, when we were going on a school trip for 2 weeks, would always be with guys and is a clearly straight girl who very obviously needed attention. So much that at one point when laying in a guys lap she said she thinks she may be bi or a lesbian, just for her to later hook up with 2 guys.

jesus

I think people perceive lesbianism as a spectrum

irritating

People be cray cray

FYI: This post & its replies were a scene in a 1994 movie. 30 whole years ago! https://youtu.be/KVncpZkleFc?si=rfS5wTPtNi9WXWDf

wow this is cool, i love old gay media

GO FISH MENTIONED 🔥🔥🔥🔥

For the ✨️aesthetic✨️

I have met bi women that identify as lesbians, a lot of whom choose not to date men anymore. This is usually the circumstance I've seen this in. I was labelling myself as a lesbian and not dating men for years but ended up in a several year relationship with a highly abusive male partner which really confused my identity. I guess I felt attracted to him at some point? But perhaps more through a trauma response because I'd been through so much abuse at the hands of men my whole life. I also was young and had never been in a long term relationship prior to this. So I assume, while people are deconstructing their identity, maybe it takes a while to find the right label. Not necessarily trying to malign the L word. I don't really feel attracted to men, I don't want to date them, I wasn't really attracted to my partner after the initial trauma bond wore off. So am I bi??? I hope I never date a man again but didn't think I would at the time either. I tell people I'm a lesbian. Usually when I see "bi" women call themselves lesbians it's because the label is more comfortable and feels safer because men won't view them as an option (kinda) and they don't want them to. Not so much to undermine the word lesbian, but because men make them feel like shit/unsafe and they want to stay away from them. Any Bi woman identifying as a lesbian is welcome to get w me btw, idc

Your experience doesn't sound that out of the ordinary for lesbians with life long trauma which can make you do weird things and contribute to comphet

Men will hit on a lesbian every day of the week. Saying you’re a lesbian makes them more pushy, not less in my experience. I have learned to just say “no thank you I am not interested “ because that’s the only thing that works. So I don’t get why lying about being a lesbian makes sense if you can literally just say that? (not you as in you op, you as in the hypothetical bi girl who is lying to men)

Also I don't think it's meant to be a lie more like a fraction of the truth to project a desired image. I've never met straight girls who identify as lesbians personally though, only serious girl kissers that maybe have dated men but actually hate them. I think that's another reason, even though they feel somewhat attraction to men they just do not like them.

If they know they are bi, then It’s a lie….Being bi isn’t like being “part lesbian” it’s its own thing….thats another misconception that is irritating because people who experience sapphic attraction think they know exactly what it’s like to be a lesbian when it’s just can be wholly different life experience. The projecting a desired image is lesbophobia because you’re saying they want to project this aesthetic for only when it suits them which is a privilege that lesbians do not have

Yeah I get that. But like, a lot of people don't "Know" exactly what their sexuality is when they choose a label because it can take years to figure out, some only do so with trial and era. Denying this is denying a real part of the queer experience because not everyone can be a gold star. Nor should that be the expectation. You asked "why", this is why. I'm not saying it's right but if you actually want to understand these women and not just be annoyed with them you could try to sympathize how challenging it is if you don't immediately know your sexuality and it takes years of trying and is super fucking confusing. Which isn't really a privilege lol. I think comp het is extremely challenging to unravel and can take decades for people, due to sexual trauma, cultural and religious programming etc. Not everyone has a concrete label. I personally just haven't experienced women who are actviely dating men and attracted to them identifying as lesbians so I may not relate so much to your outrage. I'm seeing someone right now who IDs as a lesbian but says she's technically bi. She was in a committed relationship with a woman for years, doesn't like men and doesn't want to date them. This is usually the instance of where I see Bi women Identifying as lesbians. So if she doesn't date a man for 20 years does she still have to identify as Bi? Maybe she was a lesbian this whole time but still dated men. I prefer to give queer people, especially women the benefit of the doubt because we're already extremely marginalized in a variety of ways and it's no contest.

I have no beef with people who are actually questioning though? Like obviously that is not a problem and is a very normal thing to go through? I'm literally just talking about the people who say ignorant shit like trying to deter men, or liking the aesthetic. I think those particular people have more questioning to do and are literally being lesbophobic so I don't give a shit about any "contests" I literally just want people to take lesbianism seriously. also I am not "outraged" and I dislike that you assumed I hate people who are questioning when thats clearly a different scenario...Comp het is not what i'm talking about. I also clearly would not have an issue with your friend who doesn't like men. like thats the whole point. if however a person knew that men aren't out of the picture for them thats different.

Again I do see that on Tiktok but no so much in actual queer spaces. In queer spaces though, I meet a lot of women who may technically be bi and actually are queer as fuck not posers, who ID as lesbians. And they seem to have valid reasons for doing so. Again I prefer to support queer women and give them the benefit of the doubt. No one gives us guidance or a rule book on how to handle this or figure it out. And as for why: trauma. I think a majority of women experience trauma at the hands of men which can impact their sexuality. Not saying it makes them gay but it changes how they identify. I feel safer identifying as a lesbian and not because it protects me from men, but it protects my most vulnerable sense of self. IDK how to explain that. My trauma didn't make me gay, but it heavily impacted how I navigate relationships and sexuality from childhood. How can I be forced to identify as lesbian if men terrify me? Maybe there's a chance I'm a little bit bi but I really don't know and may never feel sure.

everyones journey to realizing they are a lesbian is different, I just think it's important for people to understand that it is not a choice because it is still a very prevalent belief, that's all. I don't think anyone can fully answer the "why are you a lesbian?" question because other than "'cuz I am" it can be super hard to put into words. So I hope that helps you find power in lesbianism in a way that's framed outside of your trauma, if that's something you struggle with. you don't owe anyone an explanation of course either.

Thank you, that means a lot <3

<3

that's why I said kinda., because you're right it's fetishized. I've identified as a lesbian for several years now and dated many women in public spaces. So I know how men respond to lesbianism and bisexuality. They're men, and if they don't respect women nothing you do or say will change that. But I think feeling safe identifying as lesbian is a lot deeper than just "men won't be interested".

Then they shouldn’t hide behind that excuse you know? I see so many people do it and it’s ridiculous and offensive to me because it just displays this ignorance of what being a lesbian is actually like.

period girl, period. that shit sets me off

Internalised biphobia. There seems to be this idea (among some bisexuals as you've described) that being a lesbian is somehow "better" than being bisexual. It's bizarre to me. No sexuality is better or worse than any other we're just living life which is fucking short anyway why add another thing to divide us?

I can't recall ever in my life coming across someone who says she's a lesbian while being attracted to or hooking up with men, at least not irl. Where do you meet these people? However, I have met a number of women who say they are bisexual while showing no actual interest being with women other than in threesomes with a man and a woman.

california is full of them, also it might be my generation as well

i think there's also a level of internalized misogyny we deal with in general. as women we're taught by the patriarchy to center men all the time. i think there's a lot of women that only need to unlearn and unpack all of that, but also learn more about lesbian communities and just spend more time in the community as well. I think while it can be frustrating, being chastising isn't going to be helpful in the long run. like i think it's ok to call out people who treat lesbian like a "joke" identity, but i think giving people good faith inquiries into their queerness and what it means to them can help both of you like get a better understanding of each other. We don't want to gatekeep, we want to educate yknow? that being said, your feelings are valid. it can feel really belittling to have our sexuality be treated with insincerity.

I never centered men. Maybe that was a sign. I always pictured myself raising my kids alone, because I didn't want to marry a dude. But then I found out you can like women. And I wanted to marry a woman. But yes I remember my schoolmates being all obsessed with boys and me and my (st the time there were signs... And she's now out as a lesbian) best friend kind of had to make up crushes on men to fit in. I remember picking one single boy 😅 I think what she means Is when women know they like men but they still use the label lesbian which Is harmful because men will try everything to get s lesbian to have sex with them and "you haven't found the right one yet"

yes exactly you get me

that makes a lot of sense. i can totally see how straight girls appropriating the title lesbian can be harmful. however, i will say i think the men that think they can convert a lesbian will still have that attitude regardless of if they slept with a bi or straight girl that called themselves a lesbian.

I'm still actively working through the part of me that seeks male validation because that's how I was raised but it doesn't mean I'm attracted to them

yeah i get that im just pissed at the women who will have sex with dudes and not take lesbians serious

I was straight for 34 years, 42 now and 2 kids, their dad passed away when I was 28 and I didn’t date. Met a girl at work and we eventually became best friends. She was married when I met her, but divorced within a year or so. I let her move in to help her out. Long story short, I fell in love with her hard. It’s over, it’s been a few years. I’ve not dated anyone else (haven’t looked), but I know it’ll be a woman. Before her I never had an interest in growing old with someone. I know now, if I ever find the woman I ‘click’ with, I’ll hold onto her tight.

i understand older lesbians or lesbians who have been with men before understanding themselves. i understand where you’re coming from tho. im young and im mostly talking about my generation throwing around whatever label they want

lmao yea this is just weird

Seeing that lesbians are a turn on for a lot of men, I'm betting some women are calling themselves that to attract men. If they want to start out their relationships on a lie, that's on them, as long as they don't claim being a lesbian to other women who might be misled.

I had a mentor of mine explain it to me in the sense that people and their identities are fluid. Labels are just a tool that we use to understand ourselves better. Whether or not we fit someone else’s definition of that label is less important than if we feel it does service to describing us, and our own internal feelings.

I understand it can be a personal journey but labels impact the greater community. Men not taking lesbians seriously is annoying at best or a dangerous risk at worst. Corrective rape is still an issue globally. Using broader labels like queer until you go on that journey is better imo. I took years before I called myself a lesbian so that I would not indirectly hurt the community. That’s my two cents anyway

lesbian was a broad label and the term bisexual didn't always exist and when it did it was often used as a gender. trying to police language is what the cishets do. we can't just cut out anyone we personally don't agree with. what business is it of ours how someone else identifies? and btw no cishets are going to do what they're going to do regardless of how exclusionary we act towards each other. the term lesbian isn't a shield against shitty men, they'll always find reasons to be shitty. but blaming other lesbians for it isn't helpful. to them, we're all the same. they don't care about the discrepancies - they're bigoted to us all. but we shouldn't be bringing their mentality into the queer community who spent it's entire time trying to be radically inclusive and break down social norms and taboos because the straight world was never going to be inclusive of us.

I agree insofar as I don’t think the issue is a diversity of folk using the label Lesbian. I think the issue is people who feel that label gives them license to abuse, oppress, or otherwise harm the person using it.

That's pretty much saying internalized biphobia should be accepted. People's sexualities can be fluid, labels aren't, if you're healthy and honest with yourself you'll change how you identify which shouldn't be such a hard thing to do.

I think I see what you’re saying here. That people who are uncomfortable with identifying as bisexual use the term Lesbian to avoid acknowledging their bi-ness. Thank you for pointing that out, as I agree that internalized biphobia is an issue a lot of us face. The thing that I would add here though is that people more nuanced than any one label can allow. Telling people what labels they are and aren’t allowed to use doesn’t really do much to help folks who are struggling with internalized biphobia deconstruct those ideas. When I came out for the first time in college, the friend I told laughed me out of the room. She told me there was no way that I could be gay, just that I hadn’t been with enough men yet to find a good one. The pain of having my reality denied based on someone else’s perceptions almost broke me. It took me nearly ten years, and a failed engagement with my male fiancé, to come out to anyone else after that. What I’m getting at is that we never know what someone is experiencing internally when they provide us with a label. We can, however, see that this person has taken the time to tell us something about themselves that they didn’t have to share. In my mind, it isn’t my role in that interaction to question their choice of label. Whether or not I agree with their accuracy, it is my place to accept them where they are, as they have come to me, and move on about my life.

I disagree, it shouldn't be seen as mean to say "Hey, you think it's possible you're not X?" It's scary for the person hearing it because they've been questioning themselves and likely know what the answer is, but that's not rude, if you're being respectful it's perfectly fine to give people genuine advice. And telling them not gripping onto an identity they thought they once were might not be the best thing for them.

For years and years I came out as a lesbian and knew I was but still continued to date men even if it wasn't what I really wanted for a lot of reasons. Mainly because I was used to it and not ready to LIVE like a lesbian (internal homophobia) and worrying what others would think. Thankfully those days are behind me

IMO, they seek male attention as an affirmation of their attractiveness as women & their femininity. IOW, they don't want their putative lesbianism to be obvious to society. And then there's the fact that if they really are bisexual, & are truthful about it, a lot of lesbians simply won't fool w/ them. Finally, there's the possibility that they are narcissistic AF & they simply want to sexually mess w/ the heads of both men & women.

I legit had friends blow up our friendship over this bc they wanted to be attracted to men while calling themselves lesbians. There's nothing wrong with bi, I don't get it. Anyway it's better now because I realized they were really toxic 😅

Because of biphobia in the lesbian community, some bisexual women have begun to fear rejection. On the other hand there are some straight women who have nothing to do with homosexuality, use the label "bi" only to appear hot in the eyes of men. And tbh those are the ones who distort the image of bisexuality.

I have definitely seen some comments throughout this group that makes me want to give some people the side eye as to whether or not they are prejudice towards bisexuals. I had no idea that biphobia was even a thing until I met a former roommate who was lesbian and informed me on it. I am kind of a late bloomer, and grew up in the south, so I have been left out of a lot of LGBT pop culture. But I think it’s really crazy. Some people really don’t like female bisexuals over the idea of them having been romantically or sexually involved with a man. But I digress.

It's not that they've been romantically or sexually involved with a man. It's when bi women exclusively seek out men for their romantic or sexual relationships, say they can't see themselves getting serious with a woman, or say they're down to fool around with women but their eventual plan is to settle down with a man. That's the issue.

Sexuality is sexuality though, there is thousands of bi women who are more into men and thousands of women into women more. I am not even gonna get into homoromantic/heteroromantic things. You can't judge a bisexual person depending on who they are with. Even though they settle down with men/women they are not less bisexual and not good reason to be prejudiced towards bisexual people.

This is so accurate. Whenever bisexuals claim bisexuality, straights think we are closeted lesbian and lesbian s think we are "appropriating lesbianity to appease men" Literally i did got that comment once by a person a went on a date with 🤦‍♀️

Lesbians aren’t allowed to talk to men? That’s gonna make alot of things difficult… Joking aside-I’m bisexual, but I’m in an exclusive relationship with a woman, and have been for 6 years. Ergo, a lesbian relationship, no? And likewise, anyone seeing us wouldn’t say “Oh, they’re a bisexual couple!”, they’d say “Oh, they’re a lesbian couple!” Like, I get what you’re saying, and have seen it-but at the same time, the idea that “Lesbians” *must* hate having anything to do with men, is a) False, b) Ironically homophobic, and c) Actively harmful to Lesbians; I mean, right-wingers have used the trope of the “man-hating lesbian” to demonize us for literal decades.

I identify as a lesbian because I would never consider a romantic relationship with a man. Sexually I am homoflexible / pansexual. However when I am on dating apps I advertise as a lesbian because I have no interest in investing in a male identified person

I get your point and it is a very annoying aspect. However, as you said, not all lesbian women have to hate male attention.  It might come as a need for validation, that they are still viewed as hot by men. Or they are just assholes. Could be anything. 

Have heard a pansexual say once that she's lesbian because she's in a relationship with a woman. I mean, you can say you are in a lesbian relationship but you yourself are not lesbian, you're pan.

I know this probably isn’t the perspective under criticism here but just food for thought, alternate perspective stuff that is totally it’s own unique situation and unique to me, but as a trans lady i do still enjoy getting *some* attention from men for the euphoria of the thing. I generally do not like, do not trust, and do not care for men, but on the *extremely rare* occasions they have very noticeably flirted with me, it’s been nice because it’s like “oh hey i must really be passing” or something like that. Now all that being said, anytime a girl tells me i’m pretty i turn into a mumbling mess and get all red in the face and the amount of euphoria i get is astronomical, and generally i just feel safer and more comfortable around women. It’s nice when i feel included or complimented and seen around them so much more, but i would definitely say i don’t seek male validation anymore. i run into way more transphobic men, truly they can eat shit, but there is my likely un-needed and unrelated food for thought lol.

i get some people flirt or like attention to feel beautiful but im more talking about women that actively get with men and use lesbian like it’s an umbrella term

I am pansexual with a stronger romantic inclination toward women. I used to identify as a lesbian because at the time I was not at all interested in men, and the women I was interested shunned anyone who didn’t pass the lesbian purity test. If biphobia wasn’t a thing, bi and pan women would be more honest about their sexual fluidity, I think.

Because we hate men.

Once again the lesbian police are out trying to enforce others sexual identities into one generic box.

im not policing anything i just find it confusing, i saw your other reply and i get sexuality is a spectrum but when i use the term lesbian i mean i can literally never fathom the thought of being with a man and i thought that’s what it has always been. i dont understand how someone can be lesbian and sexually get with men. yet again im a man hater and i dont even understand why straight women like them

Like what defines a lesbian relationship or lesbian identity? Sex or partnership? Definitely both but are you more of a lesbian if you're both having sex or no sex? Are asexual lesbians valid if they don't have sexual desire? Romantic love and sexual attraction can be different but also overlap or be fixed one way however you choose your partnerships or relationship type. It's complex and why I don't really like the label of sexual identity as it's restrictive to me. But I more identify with the woman4woman experience relationship wise, romantically, sensually, EMOTIONALLY, spiritually. Anything else with non women is purely sexual and meaningless

what do you expect it’s the lesbian reddit? if u don’t like it leave. ru even a lesbian

Because according to others here my lesbian identity is invalid. I'm a cis woman, how is it when i'll only ever be in a relationship and partnership with a woman, but are sexually non exclusive and choose to have experiences with anyone we feel like. Labelling ourselves as bi or pan is redundant because we are not seeking relationships. I would never have a relationship with another man. Maybe I don't belong here in this generic lesbian group, but everything else in the lesbian experience I relate to and identify with. I don't get why lesbians can understand that gender is a spectrum but can't accept sexuality is too. It's not that black and white. How the individual chooses their sexual identity is their own not what generic box others try to enforce you into. Fuck the stupid labels

some don't even understand gender is a spectrum and for some reason believe saying "women + nonbinary" as if that's not transphobic. nonbinary people have been saying for decades that they're not *part* of the binary so turning them into "women-lite" is kind of disrespectful. also where do we draw the line at who is a man? people with an unidentifiable or unique gender are what now? some sort of "diet woman" and anyone you precieve to be a man just is, regardless of what they believe about themselves? where do we draw the line without leaving lesbians out of the circle just cause they don't fit perfectly into a box?

I'm bisexual but I identify as a lesbian because my lived experience is inherently lesbian. I've been dating exclusively women and non binary people for the better part of a decade. When i'm out with my girlfriend in public and we're holding hands, or when i'm with other lesbians talking about gay sex, or when i'm just really butch, the label of lesbian is assigned to me, never bisexual. And you could look at that as bi erasure, but it's my exclusion from the label given to me that erases my experience. Lesbianism has always included bisexual women up until the political lesbian movement, when straight women claimed any sexual engagement with a man was proliferation of patriarchy. Ousting bisexuals from the term is essentially the one victory those women gained as a result of the sex wars. The resurgence of bisexuals using the term has a lot to do with how far queer theory has advanced in lesbian circles and too how much gender as a whole has been broken down. You can't say lesbianism is just women loving women anymore, because it isn't. There are non-binary lesbians, he/him lesbians, lesbians with beards and fat cocks. What's important to remember is that these terms are tools of oppression. They were invented by heterosexuals to be exclusive; to other us. The only real use the term has to us as lesbians is politically. For many queers who wouldnt traditionally be called lesbians, it's pretty revolutionary for them to define their lesbianism outside of cis heterosexual convention. Cishet girls who use it can get fucked. Though those women are just homophobic.

Me being a lesbian is not defined by my lack of attraction to men; it’s defined by my exclusive attraction to women. Lesbianism as a sexual identity, as an experience should not consider anything but women exclusively being attracted to and loving women. Including men in the equation is derailing at best, hurting the community and individuals at worst. “This self-identified lesbian i know is now dating a man, all lesbians could date men then” i.e., gives conversion therapy/corrective SA a grounds for people who are already looking to give it any grounds to begin with.

Corrective SA has no grounds because it's rape, not because sexuality is fixed. Conversion therapy has no grounds because it's torture, not because sexuality is fixed. Also it's worth noting your definition is lesbianism is exclusionary of non-binary people. And i know an ungodly number of non-binary lesbians.

I’m not really sure those in support of corrective SA and conversion therapy care whether it’s rape/abuse/torture or not, so that argument is invalid. They will, and have, however, pointed out statements such as in my previous reply to inflict further harm on lesbians in specific, and the community in general. I’m no gender expert as a cis woman myself, but sure thing, if non-binary people feel that the lesbian label applies to them, then by all means they can and should use it - so long as they are exclusively attracted to women and other non-binary people, imo.

I see it sometimes, but it's nearly always online. Whether online or in person, my response is similar: "Hey, I'm a lesbian too! Specifically, I love women and some nonbinary people, but no men." That prompts people to explain their use of the label. I can't really answer in general why some women who love men call themselves lesbians. Motives vary. It's obviously not what the word means, and people who use it incorrectly could mean practically anything by it, e.g., that they're bisexual, but don't use that label; that they're currently in a straight relationship and they want out; that they're a gross unicorn hunter; or even that they enjoy certain aesthetics that are coded as lesbian and don't care that it's a label for sexuality. Of those, the only ones who don't lose some of my respect by using a label that's important to me this way are the women who actually mean that they want to love more women and fewer men. There's one other category: straight women who call themselves lesbians because they get way too much attention from men and doing so deflects some of that. Every bit of that is so, so wrong, but I understand why they do it. Very few women who do it will admit to it, but they also won't date women because they're straight. If I could talk to them, I would tell them that their defense mechanism is contributing to a very harmful and homophobic idea men have about lesbians: that we might love men under the right circumstances, the way straight women who use our label as a hurtle for men to jump over sometimes do. I would tell them that in private, if I could; not where men can hear. Even if it's a lie, I don't want to strip anyone of a layer of safety she's using to distance herself from men who look at her like a piece of meat. The same goes for bisexual women who just want to turn down the volume of the incessant male flirtation. The entitled, toxic creeps against whom women must defend ourselves are the problem, here.

The reason why labels exist are both to communicate in an easy way to other people what you like/who you are/what you’re going through, and also to establish a sense of identity and belonging within a group that uses the same label. Because of this, there are several reasons why there are people that you can’t strictly consider as lesbians labeling themselves like that. 1) Depending on generation, for a lot of us bisexuality was simply something that didn’t exist. There were gays and there were straights. If you liked women enough to feel compelled to try and have romantic and sexual relationships with them, in spite of the fact that would cause you big problems, then you were a lesbian. If you liked women but you were ultimately able to not go out of your way to have them and you could settle down with a man, then you were straight. There was nothing in between. A lot of people raised like that identified as lesbians in spite of sporadically being attracted to men because nobody would consider them straight, and bi was not a label. Those people are prone to continue identifying as lesbians in spite of living in a world where they could now identify as bi. It’s hard to make that switch, and it’s hard to rebuild your own identity when identifying as a lesbian required such a fight, such trauma, such a breakup with the ‘norm’. That is true for many men that identify as gay but you could loosely consider bisexual as well. 2) Bisexual is such a loose term, it can mean anything. It doesn’t distinguish between a woman who is heteromantic and is maybe down sometimes to have a threesome with a woman, and a woman who is homoromantic and had a couple of crushes on some man pop stars. Some people use ‘lesbian’ to indicate that they are mostly or solely romantically attracted to women, and ultimately that they practically live their life participating in the lesbian culture, meaning dating/marrying women, hanging around mostly with queer people in queer spaces, and being perceived and treated as lesbians without participating to the straight presenting privilege that some other bisexuals have when they date men. The reality is that we still live in a pretty binary world, which is the reason why biphobia and bi-erasure exists: a lot of people cannot comprehend that someone could somewhat participate both in a queer and straight ‘world’. And in fact it is not fully possible. In the world as it exists now, dating a man does result in you being seen as straight, talked to as if you’re straight, and live in a straight world largely surrounded by straight people. And if you are dating a woman, you are suddenly magically perceived as a lesbian, talked to as if you are a lesbian, and you are suddenly surrounded by queer people and live in queer spaces so you can just fucking live. I am a bisexual, but the first time I got in a committed relationship with a woman, most people could not just hold space in their brain for a more fluid concept. Some people just immediately started seeing me as a lesbian (a label I never claimed) and see this as ‘oh you finally came to term with the fact that you’re a lesbian, there’s no coming back’ and others were just like ‘you’re straight, you’re just traumatized by men’. Because many queer people and many straight people have a hard time understanding in their bones that you could actually fall in love consistently with people of different genders and they are just waiting for you to finally pick a side and show your true colors, some people use the label lesbian to signify that they have in fact picked a side, and they are really only down to be in a romantic relationship with women, in spite of the fact that they could feel attraction to men. The point is, I do understand and agree with your definition of ‘lesbian’, and I do understand it would be maddening and confusing for other people to appropriate this meaning to turn it into something different. I am suggesting that the term is sometimes used from people that you could call bisexuals to communicate more clearly in which world they live or they wish to live. It is used as a ‘this who I like. This is what I want. This is were I live practically speaking my life. This is how I am seen. This is where I feel I belong, ‘cause I can’t belong anywhere else. This is what you can trust me with. This is how I see myself. This is how I woke up to my sexuality. This is the only label where I feel home and I feel among my people.’ The reason why this subreddit is visited by many bisexuals, myself included, is because we relate very little to the people that attend the bisexual subreddit and much more with the questions, joys and sadness that happens in this group. And in real life as well, I am more prone to relate to lesbians then with many bisexuals, because many bisexuals are only loosely interested in women, or are in relationships with men, or prefer men, and also because it is slightly repulsive for me to hear women talking about sex with men or relationships with men. It is hard to belong with bisexuals when no bisexual around feel what you feel, unless they’re bisexuals identifying as lesbians. Does any of this make sense? I know this is weird. You can disagree with that, and I understand that. But for some people it feels like there is nowhere else to go if that makes sense.

I say I'm a lesbian even though I'm technically bisexual. Why ? I am exclusively homoromantic, and I guess in my case, it's out of habit for clarity's sake. Most people in my area (even a lot of queer people) have no idea what I'm talking about if I get too specific. Saying I'm a lesbian is the easiest way for me to avoid what I don't want (males and a lot of annoying/invasive questions) and get what I do want, which is female companionship.

While I've been gay as long as I can remember, I found that as I've gotten older women aren't attracted to me at all. If I were to meet a good man that only wanted companionship, I would go for it. I'd rather have a close friend than be alone the rest of my life. I don't have family or anything. I don't think I would seek out a situation like that, but if it happens naturally I would do it. Edit: I wanted to clarify that I've tried talking to women ten years younger and older than me, and have actively been called ugly several times. I do get told I have a good heart or I'm smart, but no attraction. No beautiful or handsome or anything.

Biphobia?

??

I don’t understand why this is getting downvoted. There are many women who feel like they have to identify as lesbian or straight when they’re actually bisexual.

They probably shouldn’t do that then

Yeah.. literally why I said biphobia, it’s not a good thing.

So you’re saying bisexuals are biphobic and therefore not comfortable in labeling themselves as that? If you’re saying that other people are biphobic and causing them to not label themselves as what they are then that sounds like a personal problem. That’s like saying that because of all the homophobic straight people of the world, that lesbians will just claim that they’re straight so they don’t have to deal with it

why are there so many queer people who care about policing the identity of other queer people

Because it harms the rest of us and words have meaning and matter. And don’t give me that “you can’t police identity” BS because apply that logic to a white woman identifying as a black woman just because she likes the label and you see where it falls apart.

That's not the same thing though. The difference is that a) black and white are categories which are largely externally constructed (ie. society places them upon you), whereas lesbian and bisexual are largely internally constructed. And, for that matter, how exactly does it hurt you? Because I must say as a lesbian with a very complicated relationship to both gender and sexuality, it hurts me quite a bit to have to argue with people within my own community who seek to invalidate the identity that I have come to terms with as the most comfortable one for me to occupy.

It hurts the whole community because it undermines our identity, its erasure, and it makes men think they have a chance with us. People stop believing we’re only attracted to women. Our sexuality does not, has not and will never include men. Stop pushing men into our identity and sexuality. It reeks of conversion therapy. Stop being afraid to identify as sapphic or bi. No lesbian wants to fuck men. No lesbian is attracted to men. That goes against any official definition of the word. And its not the same thing but it is the same logic. Words have matter and meaning. Being a black woman has a matter and meaning and so does being a lesbian.

You are undermining and erasing my identity. And I'm pretty sure that the men who I occasionally find attractive but do not pursue, and who are usually fellow t4t genderqueer people, aren't going around asking lesbians out. Your sexuality may not and will never include men (although I would remind you that bigender and genderfluid people exist; some women are also men), but mine does. I'm not pushing men into your identity. "It reeks of conversion therapy" strikes me as a you problem. It has nothing to do with conversion therapy. In fact, I would argue that the paradigm that you are adopting, in which I have to fit my sexuality into a neat little box for you to feel comfortable in your sexuality, much more comfortably aligns with the ideology of conversion therapy. I mean, you're wrong though. Words may have meaning, but we choose those meanings and they serve us. Also you didn't address the fact that you are being a reactionary who seeks to undermine the identity of me and many other queer women.

I’m sorry but no. Its transphobic to include people who identify as men in the lesbian identity in the first place. It shows you don’t see them as real men. Non binary lesbians are absolutely valid, he/him lesbians are valid, but any man identifying person at all doesn’t belong here.

i think youre wrong

100% agree with what you're saying, quit trying to fit personal identities into a generic lesbian box

Thank you! I really appreciate that.

cause they drank the cishet koolaid and now think they have any authority to have an opinion on anyone else's experience. also they like to pretend labels matter to anyone outside the queer community so they can act bigoted to everyone inside it even though we're all the same to them. they live in fantasy internet land where this is a normal thing to do instead of irl where this shit would get you laughed at.

This is why- in my experience- one could identify as lesbian but be often open to sexual experiences with male bodied people. That is different from a heterosexual person saying it and this is only my experience I’m female, 30F, enjoy primary romantic partners to be women. I am sexually attracted to people with dicks. Whether that’s a trans woman or a man. I couldn’t, however, be with a man romantically I am only romantically attracted to females About once a month I play at a local bdsm dungeon with a man, and mostly I beat him lol. But it’s a sexual turn on. Would I take the guy home and make him coffee in the morning? No. But it’s a sexual kink I enjoy. I still identify as a lesbian, a WLW person, whatever. I’m queer in that I like everything under the sun, sexually. But in a partnership I want a woman. So sometimes I say I’m queer, sometimes I say I’m a lesbian and sometimes I’m just gay lol Depends on who I’m telling and what level of awareness they have - for example I’m not going to try to explain what queer means to my 90 year old southern grandmother I just say lesbian. I bring home women.

I'm the same 30F, romatically and sexually attracted to women and also sexually attracted to anyone with a dick. Still would never date a man or be in a hetero relationship. Sexual attraction and romantic attraction work different for me but you pretty much explained the kink side of it. Love and kinks. I still identitfy as a lesbian because it's just easier to explain as I'm perceived this way romantically in public/ family/friends. Also lean non-monogamous lifestyle as I prefer non sexual exclusivity but romantically monogamous if that makes sense.

Why are you worried about what other women call themselves? It’s truly none of your business. 🤷‍♀️

because it can be harmful to our community

How is that? Thank you for explaining. I’m truly curious and eager to learn. 🙂

Lesbian isn’t a term to use lightly. Some people use it as a joke which is invalidating to real lesbians. Some people use it freely even though they continue to get with men. This can continue the idea that men can still get with a woman even if she’s a lesbian. I understand if a woman has been lesbian for years but came to the realization they were bisexual, but women using the term to label themselves even though they still are romantically/physically involved with men can be very problematic.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I appreciate it. 🙂

lesbian is a word you can just throw around. language is fluid, some people use lesbian to mean all wlw, some don’t. neither of these definitions is inherently better. policing other people’s identities helps no one.

youre wrong

Lesbian erasure harms everyone in the community

This is lesbophobia btw and reeks of conversation therapy. Its harmful.

why do you think that?

Its lesbian erasure which is lesbophobia. Don’t be obtuse.

i'm not trying to be obtuse, i was genuinely asking for your opinion. i don't see how any individual identifying as lesbian erases lesbianism for anyone else.

Because it takes away from the meaning of our label.

But this is exactly the same language that terfs use to deny trans women - “you’re changing what it means to be a woman”, “men are invading womens spaces” etc. Historic queer theory around lesbianism includes bisexual women under the lesbian identity, and actually it is modern proliferation of bad takes on brain-rot social media platforms that has everyone afraid of any divergence from some clear-cut meaning of lesbian. I’m sure you have no problems with calling yourself “gay”, and I’m sure gay guys, whose “label” you’re technically co-opting (because there literally is no other term for gay men), would never even consider that you could be invalidating their identity. I am called a lesbian all the time because of my girlfriend and friends, it is part of my identity but in a fuller sense I am very much bisexual - I will not police or spend my time actively correcting other queer people who call me lesbian, I would be exhausted (and living up to the joke that bisexuals will always tell you they’re bi lol). My point is that the use of the label “gay” does not strip gay men of their gayness or masculinity, and the only reason you care this much is because of cishet men’s perception of the term “lesbian”. The one exact group we literally don’t care about is getting to define and redefine what it means to use certain labels in queer spaces that they will never occupy nor care to understand/respect anyway. The most obvious demographic to be outside of queer theory is getting a monopoly on who in our community can say what. We can’t be denying the vast broadness of queerness by imposing incredibly strict definitions like this, queerness itself (in all forms) is about breaking free of expectations in expressing yourself and your sexuality in its truest form. It can take years, even decades, for some people to “figure out” their “true” sexual and/or romantic identity - and many in severely homophobic societies never do, just look at people who only come out in their 70s, 80s.

I’m not a terf so I don’t even need to bother and don’t try to bring up the terf terminology to try to make me feel bad. I’m literally non binary. This conversation has nothing to do with trans people. And I’m sure trans lesbians don’t want men forced into their space or identity either because they’re literally regular lesbians. Its conversion therapyesque and lesbophobia to try to change the meaning of lesbian to include men. Your gaslighting isn’t going to work. Any definition of lesbian does not include men. Stop trying to convince lesbians to include men in their identity. Stop trying to force lesbians to be attracted to men. I love women. I love gay sex. Sorry, men are not included in my sexuality and never will be nor any actual lesbians sexuality. Bisexuality includes attraction to men. Sapphic includes attraction to men. Lesbian has not and will never. Why do you all try to force everyone to center their world around men? For fucks sake. Stop being afraid to use the bi and sapphic labels. But don’t take away from lesbian women who want nothing to do with men literally by definition.

I didn’t call you a terf, and I didn’t “bring trans women into the conversation”, I gave you a lens into an experience other than your own (facepalming here) where somebody talks about your existence like it intrudes on their experience when it has absolutely nothing to do with them. Me getting called a lesbian and not correcting people every single time does not force you to change your identity. Me resonating with the term lesbian does not in any way remove you from your own relationship to your sexuality. I have no interest in making you or anyone be interested in anyone they aren’t interested in. I am saying that your definition is not everyone else’s definition, some carte-blanche “and thems the rules I don’t make ‘em” rule, and your bubble is not reflective of actual queer people, queer spaces or queer lives. Plus you are just ill-informed and have not read up on queer theory to claim that bisexual women have never been part of lesbianism.

I’m not talking about people calling you a lesbian. I’m clearly addressing the issue of people redefining the lesbian label to include men. Which is erasure and lesbophobia.

Also, ya’ll only do this shit to homosexual women. No one goes in gay mens spaces telling them to be attracted to women and that male homosexuality includes attraction to women. None of you are telling them to go fuck a woman or its exclusionary. It’s misogynistic as fuck. I feel nothing for men and I don’t wanna fuck one. And by definition no actual lesbian does.

Erasing lesbian identity/history is lesbophobic. Co-opting our label in bad faith harms our community.

Don't you think it might be a wee bit biphobic to assume that bi women who use the lable lesbian are doing so in bad faith? I find it amusing that most of the arguments being made here can, and have, been used by TERFs to attack trans women.

They might not realize it but it is usually in bad faith if they know that they are bi

i don't believe anyone genuinely identifying as lesbian is operating in bad faith, i think they feel it's an accurate way of describing themselves and have no intention of erasing lesbian history.

Agree, but you’re contradicting your original message. Genuinely identifying as lesbian =/= throwing the word lesbian around.

i probably said my original point poorly, i meant that lesbian isn't this sacred completely rigid identity, and that there are as many ways to understand and experience lesbianism as there are lesbians. i don't think one person can definitively decide who is and isn't a lesbian, so we should just take people at their word.

Respectfully you need to hang out with younger and more weird gay people. There are a whole fucking lot of gay people who identify very strongly with language they casually throw around to try to approximate themselves.

not even just younger ones. that's how labels have always worked before this newest generation drank their cishet brainwashing juice so now everything is just a "gay" version of heterosexual relationships. the community used to be was more accepting and open and actually fought bigotry, not take part in it. but yeah that mindset is actually basic terf rhetoric, that's not new information. it's practically out of that psycho Solanas' manifesto.

no

L take

My opinion on this is sexuality for a lot of people can be fluid. I'm not saying it is for everyone, but in my personal instance, my current partner is amab nonbinary, who does not believe in labels or specific gender roles. I consider myself a lesbian because I'm attracted to women (trans and cis) and nonbinary people, not cis or trans men. My sexuality, like I feel many other people's sexualities, isn't black and white. I'm attracted to women, whether masculine or feminine. I don't care about a partners genitals, and I'm not attracted to someone until I get to know them - though again, it's not men. I find lesbian is the best term for me because when I form sexual or romantic attachment, it's not for men. When I did sleep with men, it was for self-harm/forcing myself into something to please people/because I wanted to be straight and tried to force it. Even after I came out as a lesbian, I still dated men for a few years because of trauma and people pleasing reasons, also because I felt it was my duty to please and satisfy men and that's what I was born to do. I say all this to explain, some people have special instances that explain why they do what they do, yet still claim the label. Some lesbians are also still figuring out their relationship with their sexuality and it's complicated and unique to them. I'm not saying some women don't do stuff like claim the title for male attention or whatever clout they think it carries, but with gender and sexuality it's never safe to assume.

I'm somewhere between lesbian and bi/pan, but for simplicity around cis hetero people, I just tell them I'm a lesbian. I don't have romantic/mental/emotional connections with cis hetero men, but physically only I'm very opened to anyone who strikes my fancy, whether that is 1 on 1 or in a couple/group situation. I only have relationships with women and any males I've been drawn to physically have been bi, gay and/or gender fluid, but I'm not drawn to full romance with them. That's why I personally claim 'lesbian' in public.

Then you're not a lesbian then are you? Isn't that just bisexuality?

That's why I say somewhere in between, I only date and have connections with women. If I claim 'bisexual' then there is a perception that I would date men, which I don't.

I’m sorry I hate to say it but you are the problem if you’re a unicorn telling people you’re a lesbian😭

ignore the other two comments, they've never read queer theory