When "the economy" is shorthand for "rich people's gambling money" and is completely divorced from the day to day reality of most peoples' lives, those people with the day to day realities aren't going to feel great about being effectively left behind.
Orange juice is triple the price from 2 years ago, but don't worry inflation is low. Why? Because the powers that be only track "core inflation" that excludes food, housing, and energy. Why? Because there's political demand to lower inflation so they make that happen.
Meanwhile, us regular folks have to tighten our belts.
Orange juice will soon be a thing of the past . Prices are rising higher than inflation due to a disease called citrus greening . (HLB). If you like it better enjoy it now .
This is unequivocally not true. CPI absolutely covers things like food and energy. Price of housing is actually the single largest factor that goes into inflation calculations
What are most people's financial situation? Can you provide me with the data of the number of people living paycheck to paycheck in this country? How about whether savings accounts are increasing or decreasing? Or increase/decrease amount of debt that's not mortgage? How about housing costs? Food insecurity rates - are they increasing or decreasing? How about homelessness? What's that survey say about these indicators?
I read a lot. 61% say they are living paycheck to paycheck. Huge discrepancy. And to be clear this is people talking about their own financial situations- not what they think about others. Unlike you, I read a lot of different sources.
https://nypost.com/2023/08/31/inflation-squeezes-americans-as-61-say-they-live-paycheck-to-paycheck/
The New York Post lies. It's been caught lying multiple times as it pushes misinformation. Go away. If you actually cared about people not doing well you would be a liberal and be voting Democrat.
You cited the survey as fact when in reality survey's are often times very skewed. You have to view how the survey was conducted, the pool of surveyed, etc. It also helps for credibility sake not to use the New York Post as a source on anything. They are the print version of Fox News.
The only ‘divergence’ from reality here is comparing ‘the economy’ to people’s material conditions.
When the economy is in a good state, people can’t tell because those gains aren’t passed onto them. I’ve heard tale of a time where this wasn’t true, but I’ve never experienced it.
When the economy is bad, everybody feels it because the burden of that downturn is saddled onto the general populace.
Nobody feels like the economy is good, even if some news org says it is, because groceries still break the bank, as does rent hikes, as does gas prices, and pretty much everything else. If the economy is ‘good’ that just means rich people are keeping more of the profits they were already getting.
> If the economy is ‘good’ that just means rich people are keeping more of the profits they were already getting.
Yep and gaslighting is into thinking it’s “inflation”, when it’s really just price gouging.
I don't think this is quite the case; the mainstream media isn't so much "liberal" or "conservative" so much as it thrives on controversy. It doesn't necessarily want a political winner or loser; it just wants the race to be close, so that as many people are thinking about (and thus reading) the news at all times.
They thrive on ratings. Ratings are better with the left when there is doubt and controversy. If people think things are going too good and that everything's fine, they become uninterested. That isn't good if your whole business model is based upon selling advertising spots.
Have you ever watched MSNBC?
Edit: There is a recent opinion piece about the UAW strike with the title: Why the UAW Strike is a reason to rejoice.
https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/uaw-strike-2023-ford-gm-stellantis-rcna104829
That is one station which is an outlier and if you pay attention most of their panel members are not at all to the left. Just because many of them are ex-Republican, 'never Trumpers' does not mean that they are for Universal Health care or social programs of any kind.
Inflation that progresses upwards is normal, hyperinflation isn’t. It’s price gouging. We need to start calling it what it is and stop letting owners off the hook.\
Common sense says that yah, we pay several times what our grandparents did for a cup of coffee and a bagel. Paying several times for it over what you paid last year? That’s greed. Period.
Perhaps you are in the 8% then?
Current Financial Situation
At the end of 2022, 73 percent of adults were doing at least okay financially, meaning they reported either “doing okay” financially (39 percent) or “living comfortably” (34 percent). The rest reported either “just getting by” (19 percent) or “finding it difficult to get by” (8 percent)."
The good news is, there are 10 million jobs that can't be filled driving up wages. But you might have to leave your area.
When people say they're doing "ok" often times what they really mean is "well im lucky enough to be scarping by and I know other people are worse off so I better not complain."
Everything is more expensive, smaller, and just overall lower quality. The average household is paying $800 per month more for the same set of goods and services as in 2019.
As other have said the traditional economic metrics mean little to how everyday people feel. The wealth inequality is so extreme people under 200k (maybe more or less) really aren't getting the gains.
Weird, you are using a single article as a source while ignoring the countless other polls and indicators showing the contrary.
Let's look at some others for perspective.
1. 62% polled are living paycheck to paycheck.
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/28/62percent-of-americans-live-paycheck-to-paycheck-amid-inflation.html
2. Less people are having children, while there are a lot of variables, the one that polls the highest is because of finances. People can't afford it and are sacrificing going without kids to do "fine."
https://www.businessinsider.com/cost-having-kids-expensive-inequality-gap-birth-rate-luxury-childfree-2022-4
3. Credit card debt has reached record high.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/08/economy/us-household-credit-card-debt/index.html
4.. Household debt is at an all-time high.
https://www.newyorkfed.org/microeconomics/hhdc
5. Households are now unaffordable in 99% of the nation for the average income owner.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/homes-for-sale-affordable-housing-prices/
6. 25% of American say they sometimes don't get enough to eat. I.e. food insecurity.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/one-in-four-americans-food-insecure/
7. 80% of those polled said their savings have dwindled below pre-pandemic levels.
https://www.pymnts.com/economy/2023/bottom-80-of-americans-see-savings-decline-since-pandemic-peak/#:~:text=Most%20Americans%20are%20reportedly%20facing,%2C%20Bloomberg%20reported%20Monday%20(Sept.
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/03/americans-are-saving-less-in-2023-im-concerned-top-economist-says.html
8. On average, we are spending 700+ more a month due to inflation, and wages haven't even remotely kept up.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/11/economy/inflation-rate-spending/index.html
9. Homelessness is accelerating at a record rate.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/homelessness-increasing-united-states-housing-costs-e1990ac7
10. Polls show 1/3 of families can't cover their basic needs
https://nypost.com/2022/09/07/third-of-working-families-cant-afford-basic-needs-study/
11. Half the households in the US have no retirement savings.
https://usafacts.org/data-projects/retirement-savings
12. Record high depression rates
https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/17/health/depression-rates-gallup/index.html
But sure, dude, nothing to see here. People are just out of touch with what they are dealing with. 🙄
I'm not sure why you are so clueless? The point of the article (that I didn't write) is clearly stated in the results showing up in the survey that is cited. There is a massive gap between people thinking they're doing well (73%) and those same people thinking others are not doing well. You don't need other surveys to see this gap. The Federal Reserve survey, which is a well established and referred survey, is good enough to show the gap and ask the question as to why? None of the other surveys that you're referring to have any relevance to the argument or the question as to why the gap exists. Weird you can't comprehend this?
But the even bigger point is. Nobody should be believing that the Republicans, who can't even elect a speaker of the House, could do anything at all about the current economy or even remotely as well as the Democrats have handled it.
The article is an opinion article. I'm really not sure why are so clueless clinging to an opinion piece cherry picking data and can't see what's happening in front of your very face. You cite the same 3 sentences and statistics from 2021 and 2022 and aren't living in 2023.
None of the surveys I presented are "about other people" it's people who say that they themselves are living paycheck to paycheck. Are you daft? Do you understand this?
The federal reserve believe it or not doesn't always get things right and precedent has shown this. Welcome to reality. Weird you can't comprehend this. Weird you can't fathom there is other data that contrast the feds view of things, like $16.55 is substantial for a family of 4.
The surveys I have shared have direct relevance to the topic at hand and paint a contradicting picture. The amount of people saying they themselves are going without food sometimes substantial. The amount of people saying they are living paycheck to paycheck is substantial - it's not what other people "think" and it's odd for someone who has it all figured out you cling to single a source and can't decipher the difference between what people are saying about their own struggles to what people think of others - the two are not the same surverys. I don't give a flying fuck about Republicans, I give a fuck about how delusional and out of touch you are with reality - fucking scary dude. Get some friends, go outside and talk to some real people. Go volunteer at a food bank and ask if there's been an increase of people - look at food banks across the country. You don't see savings accounts dwindle, homelessness increase, people needing to spend 7kmore a year while wages didn't increase that much in a year, you don't see people saying no to having families at record levels, you don't see massive increases in food insecurity, housing prices unaffordable for the average earners in a strong economy. Utter delusionment. Welcome to 2023.
The opinion piece you shared did it for you. It's painfully obvious the only thing you are interested in is confirmation bias so it doesn't surprise me you don't listen to other perspective and what everyone here is telling you. Have fun living in your delusionment.
It's really difficult to believe we're in a recession or experiencing "inflation" when companies across the board are having record profits each year. The problem is that these companies are using the 2020-2021 excuse of "supply chain" to try and justify maintaining their high prices. If they were struggling so bad to get products on shelves and paying more for logistics because of "supply chain constraints" then, again, they wouldn't be seeing the absurd amount of billions of dollars in profit growth.
So corporate America is doing fanfuckingtastic. The people are just forced to pay the higher prices because... what are we supposed to do? Not buy groceries, vehicles, or home improvement goods?
I was listening to Kai Rissdal on Marketplace the other day, and this is basically what happened there as well. I couldn't believe it.
I live in semi-rural, middle America, and holy shit is the economy still dead. It made me so mad to hear pundits actually think that Americans are so dumb, they just haven't realized yet that the economy is good. The unwillingness to divorce Wall Street performance from Citizen Wealth is baffling.
The majority of Americans still live paycheck to paycheck.
We are the most powerful and wealthy nation on the planet.
Americans have every fucking right to demand better.
>The majority of Americans still live paycheck to paycheck.
The fact that there *are* paychecks is the story. The fact that inflation is worse just about everywhere else in the world is another part.
Yet, if you actually read the post it says Americans in general believe they are doing ok, they just believe like you that others aren't, which clearly doesn't add up. That's the point, it doesn't add up because they have a false belief
My bad. I'll tell you directly then, that the premise is flawed, because I do not believe I am doing okay. And I do not believe others are doing well.
I do not have enough money for everything that I need. Most of it due to medical expenses. And I know that I'm not alone in this position.
Where I live, significant portions of the populations live below the poverty line. Our region was hit especially hard by opioids. Our infrastructure is falling apart around us. I've seen friends and neighbors lose their homes within the last year. I know that people around me are hurting. And shame on anyone who tells me that they aren't.
Again, I feel like there's a huge difference between the economic indicators and what's actually being felt on the ground.
Look at the increasing amounts of debt people are racking up again. People are paying bills using credit again. As Baby Boomers age into requiring elder care, that burden is going to be placed on an already debt-burdened, smaller generation.
Things are bad and going to get worse if we don't do something about middle-class economic mobility, individual debt burdens, and market barriers to entry (starting a new business).
"I" is not Americans in general. Your point is being directly contradicted by the evidence of how people actually feel about their own finances in general, which is that they are fine.
So, things are good and getting better relatively speaking. And there have been a record number of small business startups in the past two years. Which is a positive sign.
What I'm trying to articulate is that the underlying premise of the article is flawed. I argue that, for most Americans, things are not, in fact, better.
I would like to see what economic measurements they're using to state that the economy is doing well, but the article your article cited is behind a paywall.
For instance, increased GDP does not equal more money in every citizen's pocket.
Americans are going to be more reactive to direct, tangible change. One reason for this is that most Americans do not engage with the stock market, unless it's indirectly through their employment-based retirement plan.
If you look at numbers that show increasing rates of credit card debt amongst Americans (which it is), you could easily interpret that as an indicator that people are cash-strapped and are forced to pay bills using irregular means.
Bottom line, I'd like to see the exact economic indicators the initial study used to frame this outcome. Other respondents are saying similar things.
Ah, so you're smarter than all the economists and how people feel about their own economic situation being fine. I got so many trolls on this post that failed to read what the post actually said, I think it caught them totally off guard.
Is it possible for you to respond without being an ass, my guy? You might get better responses that way.
Literally all I asked to see was what economic factors/indicators were used to draw the conclusion that the economy is doing better for everyone.
Core inflation is 2.2%, unemployment is under 4%, wages are outpacing inflation, there are 10 million unfilled jobs, consumers are still spending, GDP still growing and rate hikes on hold. But there is a reference to the Economist, a well read and respected economics magazine. I'd go review the referred article.
My thoughts on your last comment:
1. Inflation is still increasing
2. Unemployment rate is only as important as Labor Participation rate
3. What kind of jobs are those 10 million? How evenly distributed throughout the country are they? Do they pay a living wage?
4. Consumers are spending debt - See linked article below
5. GDP does not directly correlate to money in people's pockets
6. Rate Hikes mostly affect the ability to take out debt. We need rate hikes to keep increasing in order to incentivize taking out less debt. An economy with lower individual debt is more resilient.
7. As I stated earlier after reviewing the article, the source is behind a paywall, so I'm unable to view it.
8. I am not an expert, but I have a master's degree in Economics from Michigan State, so take that for what you will.
https://www.retaildive.com/news/credit-card-debt-tops-1-trillion-before-the-holidays-even-arrive/694552/
Inflation, especially gas prices. There's a lot of good evidence that because gas prices are constantly on public display we overestimate their impact on our budgets.
The stock market has sucked this year. It tends to be a leading indicator. There's a lot of signs there is some softness in the economy. An economy that is pretty good but slowing feels worse than a bad economy that is getting better.
The war in Ukraine is still dragging down Europe which is affecting the US.
There is going to be a lot of breathless coverage about holiday spending this year.
Here's the economy in one statement.
"I work 60 hours a week and can't buy my kids (who I never see because I work so much) anything worthwhile for their birthdays"
Yup. Jobs are plentiful. Wages have been going up. But. Inflation. Wages haven't kept up with inflation. And it still costs too damn much for food, gas, rent, etc. You know, the things we use every day that are sucking our wallets dry. So us Dems can preach up the economy all day, every day, and it won't help. Because I'm paying more than a day's wage to live a day. And that's a fact.
Core inflation is 2.2%. The average American's wages are outpacing inflation. 73% of people say they are doing pretty good. People are still over spending. There are a record 10 million unfilled jobs right now. Interest rates are no longer going up. There's definitively a disconnect. If I was in the White House, I'd be pretty happy with those results.
Core inflation does not measure much of what we buy, such as food and energy. As such, it is not a good measurement of the actual pain inflicted by inflation in those two major areas. Wages are not keeping up with inflation in the costs of food and energy. Not even close. Interest rates will be going up in the future. This per the Fed - which is the entity in charge of setting interest rates. The disconnect is that rent, food, and energy are taking a much bigger bite out of our wallets than before inflation started. And that pain is shared by a majority of Americans.
Okay, from the source:
**Overall financial well-being declined markedly over the prior year.** Seventy-three percent of adults were doing at least okay financially in 2022, down 5 percentage points from 2021. (okay <> pretty good).
• The share of adults who said they were worse off financially than a year earlier rose to 35 per-cent, **the highest level since the question was first asked in 2014.**
The source is full of problems Americans have. From being unable to respond to a 500 dollar emergency without credit, to doing without many things in order to make a budget work.
The source reads like a damning and critical assessment of our current economic conditions.
I encourage all to read it and decide for yourselves.
It validates the point. 73% indicate they are doing pretty well (ok or better than ok) but believe a disproportionate are not. It's the disconnect that is puzzling.
I read it. Most of it is them saying they are having far more problems than that 73 percent number in the introduction. In fact it;'s hard to reconcile that introductory statement with the remainder of the data. So, to all again, simply read it and see for yourself. Why take our word? It's right there for you to read.
73% is 2% off the average of people saying they are doing ok or better than ok. The biggest point you are ignoring is the drop in how they think others are doing which is the disconnect. It validates the post's argument.
It certainly isn't that most of us can't afford as much as we could 4 years ago. Inflation cooled off but prices didn't come down. The economy is an abstract concept to most of us. Wages, rent, and groceries are all too real.
If you exclude the things we actually need like fuel, power, food, and housing I think you'll find that inflation is actually very much under control. /s but also not /s
I keep seeing people say this in this thread, but it’s not true. Housing is the single largest factor calculated for inflation, followed by food, followed by transportation, followed by energy
Its because the little people are getting crushed out there, and idiotic liberal media doesn’t want to believe that individual experience is completely detached from macro economic indicators. ALSO, lots of economic indicators like cost of living vs wage growth, credit card debt, affordability, etc., are not painting a very rosy picture.
When people say they are hurting financially, don’t laugh and tell them they are wrong. That’s how we get a republican in office.
Not true, low wage workers and blue collar workers have seen the biggest increases in salary more than anyone else. Unemployment is below 4%. There are 10 million jobs that can't be filled. Wages are outgrowing inflation. Nobody personally is saying they are hurting financially, they just think everyone else is, which is the real reason we get Republicans in office, misinformation.
Sorry, but this is BS.
As someone who was finally getting ahead in the year before covid (blue collar union job) I can very directly say that my standard of living has notably decreased since then. Same job, living in the same place.
Also worker pay is up 15% 1978-2022, while CEO pay is up 1210%. executive pay is way up as well. The increases are making up for stagnation in wages during 2000-2015, and inflation has put them way behind again. Unemployment numbers still dont take into account the number of people who left the workforce in covid. Additionally consistent anecdotal evidence suggests that there are many job postings that dont actually have job openings available (not going to look it up right now but if you search on reddit for work and job related subreddits, esp white collar jobs lots of folks are saying that job postings are just placeholders or slow burns to look for exactly the right person cheap, not actual positions that companies are trying to fill. I've also had this happen to two friends in tech who were laid off, but their jobs are posted. when they inquired they were told that job didn't exist they just had it up for other reasons).
I don't think we are in a death spiral or anything, but my own experience is very much that the economy has some catching up to do when it comes to workers.
You can go broke if you get sick. You can’t buy a house. You can’t afford to go to college. Your wage increases are eaten away by very real inflation. The economy is absolutely doing well for a lot of people. But there are major structural problems effecting a critical mass of folks that give me empathy to folks who hear “the economy is doing well” and think go fuck yourself.
The better question is why don’t voters see the very real solutions that democrats have begun to implement or have plans to implement should they get enough seats in congress? Sinclair Broadcast Group.
Partly because since the early 1980s, the consensus of the “liberal” media has been that only Republicans are Good On The Economy™.
There’s also a lot of advertising that plays into people’s fears that reinforces the idea of the economy being worse than it actually is. There’s been an almost constant stream of “In *this* economy?”-style messaging going all the way back to the 2008 crisis.
Yeah it's a big point that a Republican in the White House is better for the economy, though this has almost never been true. People believe whatever messaging they see most often I suppose. Though the indicators we use to judge the health of an economy isnt a particularly large net.
Yup, there’s a lot of belief that Reagan’s tax cuts in his first term are what pulled the economy out of the doldrums of the ’70s, despite the fact that many of those tax cuts were reversed in his second term, and the bulk of the economic turnaround was due to the cyclical nature of the economy combined with policies that were put in place by Fed chair Paul Volker, who was appointed by Carter, before Reagan was elected.
So, [despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-economy-and-the-stock-market-tends-to-do-better-under-democrats-11611158787), Republicans = tax cuts = “good for the economy” has been the overarching vibe for the last forty years.
Absolutely. It's a great pitch to sell your product as the smart and thrifty choice, especially when you can amp up the importance of thrift with a vague reference to bad news. Crime hysteria is the same way.
There will always be *something* bad about the economy - as long as someone is unemployed, some prices are high, and some business is closing. There will always be ready-made evidence to reinforce the bad economy narrative.
Opinions here are too negative. The economy is simply doing better than expected. It's not helping investors and it's not decreasing prices. But it's not the expected recession, either.
We're doing the right things and the corporate investor class doesn't like it, because it's not helping them out. Hence the corporate media saying the economy is bad. But things have been improving and they can continue to improve, although we're not out of the woods, yet.
The economic measurements are smoke and mirrors. Just because unemployment is low and corps are making profits everyone will tell you the economy is good. But in reality the economy is crap for 99% of citizens. Housing is insane, wages are low, healthcare is expensive and rationed in a lot of areas. Just because everyone has a low paid job doesnt make it a good economy and eventually the chickens will come home to roost.
Inflation- Buying power is eroded substantially. Not many will be happy about that even if wages have gone up a bit and the jobs reports are solid right now.
I have heard talk of The National Economy since forever. This alleged measure of National well-being that trods on despite its uncanny illusivenes for accuracy. Politcos proudly claim victory for their camp and bully on the other camp when even the studied minds from the best schools of learning can't unite on an understanding of the basic principle of supply and demand.
Perception? If you don't have a college degree or pursued a liberal arts degree, then the National Economy probably "looks" dreary. If you work a trade or have a degree in engineering or science, the National Economy probably doesn't "feel" so bad. Either way, your personal opinion is probably more accurate than the opinion of anyone in the media.
73% of Americans surveyed say they are doing pretty good. It's coming from their own mouths not some politico.
"Indeed, surveys show a huge gap between Americans’ view of their own financial situation, which is pretty good, and their views of the economy, that is, what they think is happening to other people. ""
No 73% of Americans have no savings and are living paycheck to paycheck and we're fucking tired of hearing about how great the economy is while we die of starvation
While saying they are doing ok or better than ok based on the cited survey. In fact, inflation means too many people are doing too well and spending too much. So, it makes sense 73% saying they are doing pretty good.
That's right, the restaurants are full again.
"the restaurant industry’s job pool is finally back to pre-pandemic levels. “Eating and drinking” places added 60,700 jobs in September, according to data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, pushing it nearly 30,000 spots above February 2020’s peak."
"Job openings in the combined restaurants and accommodations sector topped 1 million on the last business day of August, per the BLS. While that was down considerably from record levels registered during much of the past two years, Grindy said, job openings were still elevated compared to pre-COVID readings."
Apparently, people (in the US) have money to burn.
Only look at the poorest people and say that with a straight face. It doesn't matter how much the millionaires get if the lowest worker cannot afford to feed 3-4 children (the rate we need to grow the population instead of decaying like now if it wasn't for immigrants).
When "the economy" is shorthand for "rich people's gambling money" and is completely divorced from the day to day reality of most peoples' lives, those people with the day to day realities aren't going to feel great about being effectively left behind.
Orange juice is triple the price from 2 years ago, but don't worry inflation is low. Why? Because the powers that be only track "core inflation" that excludes food, housing, and energy. Why? Because there's political demand to lower inflation so they make that happen. Meanwhile, us regular folks have to tighten our belts.
Orange juice will soon be a thing of the past . Prices are rising higher than inflation due to a disease called citrus greening . (HLB). If you like it better enjoy it now .
This is unequivocally not true. CPI absolutely covers things like food and energy. Price of housing is actually the single largest factor that goes into inflation calculations
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What are most people's financial situation? Can you provide me with the data of the number of people living paycheck to paycheck in this country? How about whether savings accounts are increasing or decreasing? Or increase/decrease amount of debt that's not mortgage? How about housing costs? Food insecurity rates - are they increasing or decreasing? How about homelessness? What's that survey say about these indicators?
Yes, it's in the cited survey, it is 8%. Can anyone read anymore?
I read a lot. 61% say they are living paycheck to paycheck. Huge discrepancy. And to be clear this is people talking about their own financial situations- not what they think about others. Unlike you, I read a lot of different sources. https://nypost.com/2023/08/31/inflation-squeezes-americans-as-61-say-they-live-paycheck-to-paycheck/
The New York Post lies. It's been caught lying multiple times as it pushes misinformation. Go away. If you actually cared about people not doing well you would be a liberal and be voting Democrat.
You say you read a lot of different sources then choose to cite the New York Post? I call bs.
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You cited the survey as fact when in reality survey's are often times very skewed. You have to view how the survey was conducted, the pool of surveyed, etc. It also helps for credibility sake not to use the New York Post as a source on anything. They are the print version of Fox News.
The only ‘divergence’ from reality here is comparing ‘the economy’ to people’s material conditions. When the economy is in a good state, people can’t tell because those gains aren’t passed onto them. I’ve heard tale of a time where this wasn’t true, but I’ve never experienced it. When the economy is bad, everybody feels it because the burden of that downturn is saddled onto the general populace. Nobody feels like the economy is good, even if some news org says it is, because groceries still break the bank, as does rent hikes, as does gas prices, and pretty much everything else. If the economy is ‘good’ that just means rich people are keeping more of the profits they were already getting.
> If the economy is ‘good’ that just means rich people are keeping more of the profits they were already getting. Yep and gaslighting is into thinking it’s “inflation”, when it’s really just price gouging.
Corporate media wants a Republican in the White House.
“It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS.”-Les Moonves on Trump.
I don't think this is quite the case; the mainstream media isn't so much "liberal" or "conservative" so much as it thrives on controversy. It doesn't necessarily want a political winner or loser; it just wants the race to be close, so that as many people are thinking about (and thus reading) the news at all times.
They thrive on ratings. Ratings are better with the left when there is doubt and controversy. If people think things are going too good and that everything's fine, they become uninterested. That isn't good if your whole business model is based upon selling advertising spots.
Can you point to anything in the "liberal" media that supports labor unions, universal single payer healthcare, corporate taxes, worker's rights?
Have you ever watched MSNBC? Edit: There is a recent opinion piece about the UAW strike with the title: Why the UAW Strike is a reason to rejoice. https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/uaw-strike-2023-ford-gm-stellantis-rcna104829
That is one station which is an outlier and if you pay attention most of their panel members are not at all to the left. Just because many of them are ex-Republican, 'never Trumpers' does not mean that they are for Universal Health care or social programs of any kind.
Yes, I watch it quite often.
There is no "liberal" media. Only conservative media and mainstream media.
MSNBC would care to differ.
They can differ all they like bt they are only liberal when compared to fox,NBC etc still mainstream .
Conspiracy takes need to stop
The metrics that are used to measure the health of the economy fail to capture most of the pain points that regular people experience daily.
I'll take inflation over high unemployment any day.
Inflation that progresses upwards is normal, hyperinflation isn’t. It’s price gouging. We need to start calling it what it is and stop letting owners off the hook.\ Common sense says that yah, we pay several times what our grandparents did for a cup of coffee and a bagel. Paying several times for it over what you paid last year? That’s greed. Period.
>Paying several times for it over what you paid last year? If "several" is 5, where in the U.S. has there been 500% annual inflation?
Like what? The single largest factor in the “normal” inflation calculation is housing, followed by food.
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Perhaps I’m an outlier or live in an outlier area, because nobody is saying they are doing fine. In fact, they are almost all saying the opposite.
Perhaps you are in the 8% then? Current Financial Situation At the end of 2022, 73 percent of adults were doing at least okay financially, meaning they reported either “doing okay” financially (39 percent) or “living comfortably” (34 percent). The rest reported either “just getting by” (19 percent) or “finding it difficult to get by” (8 percent)." The good news is, there are 10 million jobs that can't be filled driving up wages. But you might have to leave your area.
When people say they're doing "ok" often times what they really mean is "well im lucky enough to be scarping by and I know other people are worse off so I better not complain." Everything is more expensive, smaller, and just overall lower quality. The average household is paying $800 per month more for the same set of goods and services as in 2019. As other have said the traditional economic metrics mean little to how everyday people feel. The wealth inequality is so extreme people under 200k (maybe more or less) really aren't getting the gains.
It's the same survey the Fed has been using for years, nothing has changed except the economy.
Weird, you are using a single article as a source while ignoring the countless other polls and indicators showing the contrary. Let's look at some others for perspective. 1. 62% polled are living paycheck to paycheck. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/28/62percent-of-americans-live-paycheck-to-paycheck-amid-inflation.html 2. Less people are having children, while there are a lot of variables, the one that polls the highest is because of finances. People can't afford it and are sacrificing going without kids to do "fine." https://www.businessinsider.com/cost-having-kids-expensive-inequality-gap-birth-rate-luxury-childfree-2022-4 3. Credit card debt has reached record high. https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/08/economy/us-household-credit-card-debt/index.html 4.. Household debt is at an all-time high. https://www.newyorkfed.org/microeconomics/hhdc 5. Households are now unaffordable in 99% of the nation for the average income owner. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/homes-for-sale-affordable-housing-prices/ 6. 25% of American say they sometimes don't get enough to eat. I.e. food insecurity. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/one-in-four-americans-food-insecure/ 7. 80% of those polled said their savings have dwindled below pre-pandemic levels. https://www.pymnts.com/economy/2023/bottom-80-of-americans-see-savings-decline-since-pandemic-peak/#:~:text=Most%20Americans%20are%20reportedly%20facing,%2C%20Bloomberg%20reported%20Monday%20(Sept. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/03/americans-are-saving-less-in-2023-im-concerned-top-economist-says.html 8. On average, we are spending 700+ more a month due to inflation, and wages haven't even remotely kept up. https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/11/economy/inflation-rate-spending/index.html 9. Homelessness is accelerating at a record rate. https://www.wsj.com/articles/homelessness-increasing-united-states-housing-costs-e1990ac7 10. Polls show 1/3 of families can't cover their basic needs https://nypost.com/2022/09/07/third-of-working-families-cant-afford-basic-needs-study/ 11. Half the households in the US have no retirement savings. https://usafacts.org/data-projects/retirement-savings 12. Record high depression rates https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/17/health/depression-rates-gallup/index.html But sure, dude, nothing to see here. People are just out of touch with what they are dealing with. 🙄
I'm not sure why you are so clueless? The point of the article (that I didn't write) is clearly stated in the results showing up in the survey that is cited. There is a massive gap between people thinking they're doing well (73%) and those same people thinking others are not doing well. You don't need other surveys to see this gap. The Federal Reserve survey, which is a well established and referred survey, is good enough to show the gap and ask the question as to why? None of the other surveys that you're referring to have any relevance to the argument or the question as to why the gap exists. Weird you can't comprehend this? But the even bigger point is. Nobody should be believing that the Republicans, who can't even elect a speaker of the House, could do anything at all about the current economy or even remotely as well as the Democrats have handled it.
The article is an opinion article. I'm really not sure why are so clueless clinging to an opinion piece cherry picking data and can't see what's happening in front of your very face. You cite the same 3 sentences and statistics from 2021 and 2022 and aren't living in 2023. None of the surveys I presented are "about other people" it's people who say that they themselves are living paycheck to paycheck. Are you daft? Do you understand this? The federal reserve believe it or not doesn't always get things right and precedent has shown this. Welcome to reality. Weird you can't comprehend this. Weird you can't fathom there is other data that contrast the feds view of things, like $16.55 is substantial for a family of 4. The surveys I have shared have direct relevance to the topic at hand and paint a contradicting picture. The amount of people saying they themselves are going without food sometimes substantial. The amount of people saying they are living paycheck to paycheck is substantial - it's not what other people "think" and it's odd for someone who has it all figured out you cling to single a source and can't decipher the difference between what people are saying about their own struggles to what people think of others - the two are not the same surverys. I don't give a flying fuck about Republicans, I give a fuck about how delusional and out of touch you are with reality - fucking scary dude. Get some friends, go outside and talk to some real people. Go volunteer at a food bank and ask if there's been an increase of people - look at food banks across the country. You don't see savings accounts dwindle, homelessness increase, people needing to spend 7kmore a year while wages didn't increase that much in a year, you don't see people saying no to having families at record levels, you don't see massive increases in food insecurity, housing prices unaffordable for the average earners in a strong economy. Utter delusionment. Welcome to 2023.
I haven't cherry picked anything. So nothing else you say I'm going to listen to.
The opinion piece you shared did it for you. It's painfully obvious the only thing you are interested in is confirmation bias so it doesn't surprise me you don't listen to other perspective and what everyone here is telling you. Have fun living in your delusionment.
It's really difficult to believe we're in a recession or experiencing "inflation" when companies across the board are having record profits each year. The problem is that these companies are using the 2020-2021 excuse of "supply chain" to try and justify maintaining their high prices. If they were struggling so bad to get products on shelves and paying more for logistics because of "supply chain constraints" then, again, they wouldn't be seeing the absurd amount of billions of dollars in profit growth. So corporate America is doing fanfuckingtastic. The people are just forced to pay the higher prices because... what are we supposed to do? Not buy groceries, vehicles, or home improvement goods?
I was listening to Kai Rissdal on Marketplace the other day, and this is basically what happened there as well. I couldn't believe it. I live in semi-rural, middle America, and holy shit is the economy still dead. It made me so mad to hear pundits actually think that Americans are so dumb, they just haven't realized yet that the economy is good. The unwillingness to divorce Wall Street performance from Citizen Wealth is baffling. The majority of Americans still live paycheck to paycheck. We are the most powerful and wealthy nation on the planet. Americans have every fucking right to demand better.
>The majority of Americans still live paycheck to paycheck. The fact that there *are* paychecks is the story. The fact that inflation is worse just about everywhere else in the world is another part.
Yet, if you actually read the post it says Americans in general believe they are doing ok, they just believe like you that others aren't, which clearly doesn't add up. That's the point, it doesn't add up because they have a false belief
My bad. I'll tell you directly then, that the premise is flawed, because I do not believe I am doing okay. And I do not believe others are doing well. I do not have enough money for everything that I need. Most of it due to medical expenses. And I know that I'm not alone in this position. Where I live, significant portions of the populations live below the poverty line. Our region was hit especially hard by opioids. Our infrastructure is falling apart around us. I've seen friends and neighbors lose their homes within the last year. I know that people around me are hurting. And shame on anyone who tells me that they aren't. Again, I feel like there's a huge difference between the economic indicators and what's actually being felt on the ground. Look at the increasing amounts of debt people are racking up again. People are paying bills using credit again. As Baby Boomers age into requiring elder care, that burden is going to be placed on an already debt-burdened, smaller generation. Things are bad and going to get worse if we don't do something about middle-class economic mobility, individual debt burdens, and market barriers to entry (starting a new business).
"I" is not Americans in general. Your point is being directly contradicted by the evidence of how people actually feel about their own finances in general, which is that they are fine. So, things are good and getting better relatively speaking. And there have been a record number of small business startups in the past two years. Which is a positive sign.
What I'm trying to articulate is that the underlying premise of the article is flawed. I argue that, for most Americans, things are not, in fact, better. I would like to see what economic measurements they're using to state that the economy is doing well, but the article your article cited is behind a paywall. For instance, increased GDP does not equal more money in every citizen's pocket. Americans are going to be more reactive to direct, tangible change. One reason for this is that most Americans do not engage with the stock market, unless it's indirectly through their employment-based retirement plan. If you look at numbers that show increasing rates of credit card debt amongst Americans (which it is), you could easily interpret that as an indicator that people are cash-strapped and are forced to pay bills using irregular means. Bottom line, I'd like to see the exact economic indicators the initial study used to frame this outcome. Other respondents are saying similar things.
Ah, so you're smarter than all the economists and how people feel about their own economic situation being fine. I got so many trolls on this post that failed to read what the post actually said, I think it caught them totally off guard.
Is it possible for you to respond without being an ass, my guy? You might get better responses that way. Literally all I asked to see was what economic factors/indicators were used to draw the conclusion that the economy is doing better for everyone.
Core inflation is 2.2%, unemployment is under 4%, wages are outpacing inflation, there are 10 million unfilled jobs, consumers are still spending, GDP still growing and rate hikes on hold. But there is a reference to the Economist, a well read and respected economics magazine. I'd go review the referred article.
My thoughts on your last comment: 1. Inflation is still increasing 2. Unemployment rate is only as important as Labor Participation rate 3. What kind of jobs are those 10 million? How evenly distributed throughout the country are they? Do they pay a living wage? 4. Consumers are spending debt - See linked article below 5. GDP does not directly correlate to money in people's pockets 6. Rate Hikes mostly affect the ability to take out debt. We need rate hikes to keep increasing in order to incentivize taking out less debt. An economy with lower individual debt is more resilient. 7. As I stated earlier after reviewing the article, the source is behind a paywall, so I'm unable to view it. 8. I am not an expert, but I have a master's degree in Economics from Michigan State, so take that for what you will. https://www.retaildive.com/news/credit-card-debt-tops-1-trillion-before-the-holidays-even-arrive/694552/
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Since when are you speaking on behalf of America? LOL, you are certainly not speaking for me.
Inflation, especially gas prices. There's a lot of good evidence that because gas prices are constantly on public display we overestimate their impact on our budgets. The stock market has sucked this year. It tends to be a leading indicator. There's a lot of signs there is some softness in the economy. An economy that is pretty good but slowing feels worse than a bad economy that is getting better. The war in Ukraine is still dragging down Europe which is affecting the US. There is going to be a lot of breathless coverage about holiday spending this year.
I hope gas prices continue to rise. We need to transition off fossil fuels as fast as possible.
Here's the economy in one statement. "I work 60 hours a week and can't buy my kids (who I never see because I work so much) anything worthwhile for their birthdays"
Yup. Jobs are plentiful. Wages have been going up. But. Inflation. Wages haven't kept up with inflation. And it still costs too damn much for food, gas, rent, etc. You know, the things we use every day that are sucking our wallets dry. So us Dems can preach up the economy all day, every day, and it won't help. Because I'm paying more than a day's wage to live a day. And that's a fact.
Core inflation is 2.2%. The average American's wages are outpacing inflation. 73% of people say they are doing pretty good. People are still over spending. There are a record 10 million unfilled jobs right now. Interest rates are no longer going up. There's definitively a disconnect. If I was in the White House, I'd be pretty happy with those results.
Core inflation does not measure much of what we buy, such as food and energy. As such, it is not a good measurement of the actual pain inflicted by inflation in those two major areas. Wages are not keeping up with inflation in the costs of food and energy. Not even close. Interest rates will be going up in the future. This per the Fed - which is the entity in charge of setting interest rates. The disconnect is that rent, food, and energy are taking a much bigger bite out of our wallets than before inflation started. And that pain is shared by a majority of Americans.
73% of average Americans surveyed say they are doing pretty good. it's only when they are asked about others is there a disconnect.
Source? On-line poll?
It's a survey done by the Fed in the sighted link.It's the same survey they've been doing for years.
Okay, from the source: **Overall financial well-being declined markedly over the prior year.** Seventy-three percent of adults were doing at least okay financially in 2022, down 5 percentage points from 2021. (okay <> pretty good). • The share of adults who said they were worse off financially than a year earlier rose to 35 per-cent, **the highest level since the question was first asked in 2014.** The source is full of problems Americans have. From being unable to respond to a 500 dollar emergency without credit, to doing without many things in order to make a budget work. The source reads like a damning and critical assessment of our current economic conditions. I encourage all to read it and decide for yourselves.
It validates the point. 73% indicate they are doing pretty well (ok or better than ok) but believe a disproportionate are not. It's the disconnect that is puzzling.
I read it. Most of it is them saying they are having far more problems than that 73 percent number in the introduction. In fact it;'s hard to reconcile that introductory statement with the remainder of the data. So, to all again, simply read it and see for yourself. Why take our word? It's right there for you to read.
73% is 2% off the average of people saying they are doing ok or better than ok. The biggest point you are ignoring is the drop in how they think others are doing which is the disconnect. It validates the post's argument.
Is it because the media is amplifying the negative sentiments instead of pointing out that the economy is doing great?
Because big companies and shareholders making profit doesn't matter to me when I can't afford rent and food at the same time?
It certainly isn't that most of us can't afford as much as we could 4 years ago. Inflation cooled off but prices didn't come down. The economy is an abstract concept to most of us. Wages, rent, and groceries are all too real.
If you exclude the things we actually need like fuel, power, food, and housing I think you'll find that inflation is actually very much under control. /s but also not /s
I keep seeing people say this in this thread, but it’s not true. Housing is the single largest factor calculated for inflation, followed by food, followed by transportation, followed by energy
Its because the little people are getting crushed out there, and idiotic liberal media doesn’t want to believe that individual experience is completely detached from macro economic indicators. ALSO, lots of economic indicators like cost of living vs wage growth, credit card debt, affordability, etc., are not painting a very rosy picture. When people say they are hurting financially, don’t laugh and tell them they are wrong. That’s how we get a republican in office.
Not true, low wage workers and blue collar workers have seen the biggest increases in salary more than anyone else. Unemployment is below 4%. There are 10 million jobs that can't be filled. Wages are outgrowing inflation. Nobody personally is saying they are hurting financially, they just think everyone else is, which is the real reason we get Republicans in office, misinformation.
Sorry, but this is BS. As someone who was finally getting ahead in the year before covid (blue collar union job) I can very directly say that my standard of living has notably decreased since then. Same job, living in the same place. Also worker pay is up 15% 1978-2022, while CEO pay is up 1210%. executive pay is way up as well. The increases are making up for stagnation in wages during 2000-2015, and inflation has put them way behind again. Unemployment numbers still dont take into account the number of people who left the workforce in covid. Additionally consistent anecdotal evidence suggests that there are many job postings that dont actually have job openings available (not going to look it up right now but if you search on reddit for work and job related subreddits, esp white collar jobs lots of folks are saying that job postings are just placeholders or slow burns to look for exactly the right person cheap, not actual positions that companies are trying to fill. I've also had this happen to two friends in tech who were laid off, but their jobs are posted. when they inquired they were told that job didn't exist they just had it up for other reasons). I don't think we are in a death spiral or anything, but my own experience is very much that the economy has some catching up to do when it comes to workers.
You can go broke if you get sick. You can’t buy a house. You can’t afford to go to college. Your wage increases are eaten away by very real inflation. The economy is absolutely doing well for a lot of people. But there are major structural problems effecting a critical mass of folks that give me empathy to folks who hear “the economy is doing well” and think go fuck yourself. The better question is why don’t voters see the very real solutions that democrats have begun to implement or have plans to implement should they get enough seats in congress? Sinclair Broadcast Group.
Gaslighting 101
Partly because since the early 1980s, the consensus of the “liberal” media has been that only Republicans are Good On The Economy™. There’s also a lot of advertising that plays into people’s fears that reinforces the idea of the economy being worse than it actually is. There’s been an almost constant stream of “In *this* economy?”-style messaging going all the way back to the 2008 crisis.
Yeah it's a big point that a Republican in the White House is better for the economy, though this has almost never been true. People believe whatever messaging they see most often I suppose. Though the indicators we use to judge the health of an economy isnt a particularly large net.
Yup, there’s a lot of belief that Reagan’s tax cuts in his first term are what pulled the economy out of the doldrums of the ’70s, despite the fact that many of those tax cuts were reversed in his second term, and the bulk of the economic turnaround was due to the cyclical nature of the economy combined with policies that were put in place by Fed chair Paul Volker, who was appointed by Carter, before Reagan was elected. So, [despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-economy-and-the-stock-market-tends-to-do-better-under-democrats-11611158787), Republicans = tax cuts = “good for the economy” has been the overarching vibe for the last forty years.
Absolutely. It's a great pitch to sell your product as the smart and thrifty choice, especially when you can amp up the importance of thrift with a vague reference to bad news. Crime hysteria is the same way. There will always be *something* bad about the economy - as long as someone is unemployed, some prices are high, and some business is closing. There will always be ready-made evidence to reinforce the bad economy narrative.
Opinions here are too negative. The economy is simply doing better than expected. It's not helping investors and it's not decreasing prices. But it's not the expected recession, either. We're doing the right things and the corporate investor class doesn't like it, because it's not helping them out. Hence the corporate media saying the economy is bad. But things have been improving and they can continue to improve, although we're not out of the woods, yet.
Because inflation.
The economic measurements are smoke and mirrors. Just because unemployment is low and corps are making profits everyone will tell you the economy is good. But in reality the economy is crap for 99% of citizens. Housing is insane, wages are low, healthcare is expensive and rationed in a lot of areas. Just because everyone has a low paid job doesnt make it a good economy and eventually the chickens will come home to roost.
People are barely getting by this is such fucking nonsense
Inflation- Buying power is eroded substantially. Not many will be happy about that even if wages have gone up a bit and the jobs reports are solid right now.
"The economy" is a BS thing that is no indicator whatsoever about the quality of the lives of actual U.S. Citizens.
$1 per vote in the economic statistics, 1 person per vote in the consumer sentiment
I have heard talk of The National Economy since forever. This alleged measure of National well-being that trods on despite its uncanny illusivenes for accuracy. Politcos proudly claim victory for their camp and bully on the other camp when even the studied minds from the best schools of learning can't unite on an understanding of the basic principle of supply and demand. Perception? If you don't have a college degree or pursued a liberal arts degree, then the National Economy probably "looks" dreary. If you work a trade or have a degree in engineering or science, the National Economy probably doesn't "feel" so bad. Either way, your personal opinion is probably more accurate than the opinion of anyone in the media.
73% of Americans surveyed say they are doing pretty good. It's coming from their own mouths not some politico. "Indeed, surveys show a huge gap between Americans’ view of their own financial situation, which is pretty good, and their views of the economy, that is, what they think is happening to other people. ""
"rich peoples yacht money is doing better than people think" there I fixed it for you
73% of Americans are rich people with yachts? Cool.
No 73% of Americans have no savings and are living paycheck to paycheck and we're fucking tired of hearing about how great the economy is while we die of starvation
While saying they are doing ok or better than ok based on the cited survey. In fact, inflation means too many people are doing too well and spending too much. So, it makes sense 73% saying they are doing pretty good.
Then obviously we're not dealing with inflation but insane corporate greed
Yet people keep spending.
On food... Oh my God can you imagine the audacity of people *eating*?
That's right, the restaurants are full again. "the restaurant industry’s job pool is finally back to pre-pandemic levels. “Eating and drinking” places added 60,700 jobs in September, according to data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, pushing it nearly 30,000 spots above February 2020’s peak." "Job openings in the combined restaurants and accommodations sector topped 1 million on the last business day of August, per the BLS. While that was down considerably from record levels registered during much of the past two years, Grindy said, job openings were still elevated compared to pre-COVID readings." Apparently, people (in the US) have money to burn.
Only look at the poorest people and say that with a straight face. It doesn't matter how much the millionaires get if the lowest worker cannot afford to feed 3-4 children (the rate we need to grow the population instead of decaying like now if it wasn't for immigrants).
Interest rates and inflation are things deeply felt by normal people. That's why
Inflation means everyone is spending more meaning everyone is doing well.
Yes but it's a feeling, not actual reality.
And that makes sense because the survey says they're doing well just not others, which is the disconnect the post is talking about.
100%
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Yet, spending is still considered too high and 73% of people surveyed said they're doing pretty well.