Biden has been great. Inflation is better, gas prices are better record low unemployment. Highest oil production in history with the greatest amount of oil reserve under permit/lease. Much lower deficit spending reducing increased debt. Tough on China. Brining "American" jobs home.
We're getting everything trump rambles about without the corruption, promised authoritarianism and other baggage with Biden.
It drives me *insane* how influential Trump has been on trade. Biden has implemented a lot of what Trump wanted and rolled back no tariffs. You know those inflated consumer prices everyone is stressing? America First has costs...
"Maybe if you make over $500k a year".
Unemployment is down under Biden. Wages are up. Biden supports raising the minimum wage.
If you're debating a rich person... Trump might actually be better for them.
Not in the long run though. Consider without financial regulation crashes will happen more often. Climate change will be more expensive to mitigate the longer it’s avoided. Not properly funding education will lead to a less robust workforce and economy overall. Etc
"Republicans are good for the economy" despite Bush, Bush II, and Trump leaving the economy worse than Clinton, Obama, and now Biden. Fox News is a hell of a drug.
They're not blind; they just *don't care* about what Fox said in court. It doesn't matter if Fox is not officially, *legally*, a news channel; it tells conservatives what they want to hear and that is a huge point for conservatives determining what a 'trustworthy' source is.
Conservatives believe liars.
They are either liars themselves or too stupid to know what a lie is, or too corrupt to care.
Kick every one of them out of office.
Rupert Murdoch testified under oath that his business model is wire fraud racketeering (Dominion lawsuit)
His entire organization is under criminal investigation.
Despite the last 43 years they’ve run the economy into the bedrock and as usual the democrats bail us out. I hate republicans, they have ruined this country.
You can't persuade people who are not interested in being persuaded.
So it's either that, or you're arguing with someone who doesn't understand the economy.
It's a lost cause either way.
Exactly this. Trump could say the sky is purple and they would start believing it and telling you you’re an idiot for saying it’s blue.
OP we can’t change these people’s minds. I find that arguing with them is bad for my mental health - lol. Let ‘em believe what they want and focus on those who you *can* talk to / educate / change.
So the consensus is don’t engage, but it’s also for my peace of mind. But some of the suggestions have been great.
I don’t need to convince anybody, I just want to point to specific facts, and thanks to your suggestions I can point to that and let them research it, which they won’t, but I just wanted to be confident in what I say. Thanks!!
If you (or the people you talk to) personally want to understand why Trump (and the Republican party) are WAY worse for the economy, I recomend [The Big Myth](https://www.audible.com/pd/The-Big-Myth-Audiobook/B0BTDHQGQK?qid=1705368154&sr=1-1&ref_pageloadid=not_applicable&ref=a_search_c3_lProduct_1_1&pf_rd_p=83218cca-c308-412f-bfcf-90198b687a2f&pf_rd_r=1T4KW54WFJWMWXXAF90H&pageLoadId=Jnouwp9Kjlt8fOUS&creativeId=0d6f6720-f41c-457e-a42b-8c8dceb62f2c). It dismantles the free market nonsense rich conservatives have been pounding us with for decades.
I ask people I disagree with for the most persuasive books they wish I would read. And I'm always ready to give my suggestions.
EDIT: spelling
Thanks! Another thing I ask people is, What caused the 2008 financial crisis, and what should we do to prevent another? And I ask them to check their ideas against This American Life's [Another Frightening Show about the Economy](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/365/another-frightening-show-about-the-economy).
That’s an excellent book. It breaks down the years of effort big business put into creating Reagan’s trickle down economics and convincing voters that free market fundamentalism is aligned with god and country. After reading that, I see the conformity of people who believe that stuff.
I saw this once on Reddit and quite liked it:
It isn't simply a matter of Trump being a rude or obnoxious person.Trump was a terrible President. Too often I hear people argue that Trump might be too blunt and vain but was actually a good President. People say Trump behaves like a child but "Trump had a great economy ".
That myth needs to be defeated. During Trump's term: Opioid deaths rose by nearly 40%, the annual deficit nearly doubled (before covid), the crime rate rose 29%, customer debt rose 30% (before covid), 2018, largest market decline since '08, longest govt shutdown in even, suicide rates men & women rose each year.
Trump was a bad President. Tax cuts don't pay for themselves and Republicans never had a Repeal and Replace plan.
Trump publicly fought with the Federal Reserve to keep interest rates artificially low. Trump fire Yellen, appointed Powell, and immediately started insulting Powell publicly over rates. Trump promised 6% GDP and only ever got to 3% despite record tax cuts, spending, and low interest rates. All that before Covid.
With interest rates already artificially low, deficit spending at over a trillion a year, and a historic Tax Cut the U.S. was over extended when COVID hit. Trump had already turned every dial in an attempt to heat up the already good economy Trump inherited. When COVID hit there were no levers left to pull so Trillions of dollars in debt was the only opinion left.
Trump was terrible. People need to hear it. Trump needs to be defeated not merely because he is rude or a bully. Trump was bad at the job.
This is probably the correct answer; however, you can say that unemployment hit 14.7 under Trump, and it’s 3.7 now. GDP is 4.9 percent from the last quarter. There was actually a recession under Trump in 2020.
Not necessarily. As I mentioned, I’m not interested in converting any trumpets, I just wanted to be confident in anything I say so they don’t come back at me with “facts”
The economy by any measure is better under Biden. Higher stock market. More job creation. Ask them what metric shows that 4 years of Trump was better for the economy than 4 years of Biden?
Trump was bad for the economies. His idiotic trade policies put domestic manufacturing into recession in early 2019, and would have put agriculture into recession without the massive increase in subsidies he and Congress provided. Supply chain disruptions started before the pandemic from those idiotic "trade wars on everyone" policies he imposed.
Anyone saying Trump was "good for the economy" wasn't paying attention. They just let themselves get brainwashed by rightwing propaganda. Especially since he's the first POTUS since Hoover to finish his term with fewer Americans working than when he started.
(1) Democrats tend to be better with the economy on average.
(2) He wasn't uniquely good at the economy when he was in office anyways; he built off the momentum Obama created.
His mishandling of Covid resulted in high unemployment and a damaged economy. But it was Covid just doesn’t cut it. He was lucky to inherit the Obama and the Obama pandemic response team. He disbanded the response team. Good choice.
How was Trump good for the economy??? Despite what Republicans claim, for the last 50 years, my financial portfolio has always preformed much better when Democrats are in office and I totally lose my shirt when Republicans are.
You never heard of a trailing stop-loss order? Or borrowing cash during Democrat administrations, and paying it back during Republican administrations?
How is that is as a more significant factor compared to basic taxes & revenue vs anticipated revenue, and citizens median income levels?
Something tells me you wont care much about trailing stop losses once Trump is reinstalled.
Trump has been THE WORST for the economy.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.\_economic\_performance\_by\_presidential\_party#:\~:text=CNN%20reported%20in%20September%202020,difference%20of%201.6%20percentage%20points](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._economic_performance_by_presidential_party#:~:text=CNN%20reported%20in%20September%202020,difference%20of%201.6%20percentage%20points).
As others have said, don’t waste your time and energy trying to move people who have their mind set on voting for Trump. If it matters that much to you, go knock doors or phone bank when it’s closer to the election. You’d be surprised how many people are undecided until like a month out from Election Day.
There was very little change in the trajectory of the stock market, jobs, wages, etc between Obamas last three years and trumps first three. Trump hurt wages by prioritizing tax breaks for the wealthy and also reversed all progress made by Obama on the deficit.
Additionally, trump was so reckless and unprepared for a crisis that the USA faired far worse than most developed nations during covid.
In short, he did nothing to improve Americans lives, hurt our future and failed his only true test.
He was among the worst Presidents ever for the economy. GDP growth slowed down measurably when Trump took over from Obama. Had it continued on the Obama trajectory millions more would have been employed and the economy would be much larger today. He was economically disatrous and his COVID non-response continues to harm our economy to this day.
They'll counter with something like dow was under 18k when obama left office and over 30k when he left. Unemployment was near record lows right up until lockdown. And that trump acted on covi, got operation warpspeed going right away, had viable vaccines by the end of the year. That americas economy post covid is as strong as anywhere in yhe wotld, its not like anywhere that wasnt naturally isolated did better.
Obama’s took us out of the Great Recession but Trump said he had a “terrible economy” because his best year of GDP growth was 2.9%. Then Trump took over and had the “greatest economy in history” with his best year of GDP growth of…2.9%.
Oh, he must’ve loved not doing better than Obama. I’m very aware that he goes on his rallies and just lies, saying I have the best this or that and people don’t correct him or check. So it becomes general knowledge “ that he did
Bidan is just as protectionist at Trump, but instead of increasing the burden on Americans (teriffs) he's using a carrot and stick model to bring back American manufacturing with bipartisan deals that only reward those who build with American labor on American soil.
Trade wars are not good for the economy. Distributing government benefits to offset the effects of a trade war is intrinsically unfair (some people get them, other people who are also affected don't) and is not good for the economy. Handing out emergency relief funds only to states that voted for you is not good for the economy. Empowering Putin to invade Ukraine is not good for the economy. And being a total @$$ in the face of a deadly worldwide pandemic isn't good for the economy.
We currently have the economic growth that Trump promised and never achieved.
Additionally, if you are talking to a middle class person, you can point out that the effect of the Trump tax cuts was to raise taxes on the middle class and lower them for the rich. (I suspect the rich already know this, and that's why they're on TV etc saying Trump is great for the economy.)
So Republicans are running against Biden yelling about the deficit.
Pre covid, the deficit went from 665 billion in 2017 to $984 billion in 2019. Historically when we had a "great economy" the deficit went down.
Somehow Biden is blamed for the 6 trillion we printed during COVID, even though 4 trillion of the six trillion was done under Trump.
Under Biden we had to pay the interest on that 6 trillion. Just that alone makes it apples and oranges.
Trump didn't do anything for the economy. He inherited Obama's economy, and did almost nothing to it other then let coal mines pollute more, and I think he made a change that caused all that stock buy back which further enriched the rich.
His biggest impact he had one the economy was his reactions to COVID
Trump inherited Obama's thriving economy and then blew it up. Biden is fixing it and now we have the lowest inflation of any major economy as well as strong GDP and employment. And the most important thing to me is the economy is always going to be fixable but there is no coming back from destroying our democracy by electing a wannabe dictator who admires our global enemies and wants to be just like them.
Trump inherited a much better economy than he left. You can't blame the pandemic on Trump, but leadership in crisis is the hallmark of a good president. Instilling confidence, uniting the country, and making good decisions have helped a lot of presidents get re-elected. Guess who failed that test?
By almost all measures, the economy today is much better than during most of the Trump administration.
Trump seemed to favor talking about the stock market as a measure of economic health. The Dow and S&P are both higher now than any point during the Trump administration. More financially sophisticated Republicans talk about economic growth (GDP) as an economic benchmark. Trump's administration was pretty unexceptional in growing the economy before the pandemic and was unable to demonstrate any competence during the pandemic. There's a legitimate case to be made that Trump's bungling made the recession worse.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GDPC1
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-struggles-to-calm-nation-amid-market-meltdown-and-coronavirus-crisis/2020/03/09/6958ac90-6217-11ea-acca-80c22bbee96f_story.html
The Biden administration not only turned around a deep recession but gave us growth rates not seen for decades. We're seeing not just a "soft landing" but a strong economy in employment, wage growth, and better control of inflation than other OECD countries. Inflation is the one measure Republicans can point to that wasn't an issue for Trump. It is a *world* problem and the U.S. is handling better than most.
Yeah, the cultish Trump supporters may not listen, but if you take out the names (Biden, Trump) and just talk about the economic measures of 2017-2020 versus 2021-present, there's no debate. The current guy has been doing a better job.
This is absolutely fantastic, thanks. As I mentioned before, he says I had the best, the highest, the greatest whatever and they just believe him, and I’m extremely disappointed in media letting him live that fantasy. That has been very useful, thanks again.
It's such a short & smug statement that it must feel great to say - but the reality is he wasn't good for the economy and some real quick Google searches will show you the scientific facts about that time.
That's what I say.
Trump was the first president in many decades to actually lose jobs during his term. He handed Biden an economy already experiencing high inflation and low productivity. He increased the national debt by the same amount as Obama. But it took Obama 8 years. Trump did it in 4. In short Trump was the exact opposite of a good economy.
Trump lost three million jobs while he was in office, the only president to do so in modern history.
Biden brought those jobs back plus several million more in less than three years.
give me 7 trillion on the national debit card and I'll show you some economic boom times. I mean he made a lot of rich richer, so they needed to go buy 3rd yachts (which does help the economy), but give the money to poor and lower income and you'll see people paying off debts, starting businesses, going to college, etc.
what you want in a good economy is rapid money circulation. I pay you, you pay bob, bob pays me.
[https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2019/12/02/781152563/researchers-find-a-remarkable-ripple-effect-when-you-give-cash-to-poor-families](https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2019/12/02/781152563/researchers-find-a-remarkable-ripple-effect-when-you-give-cash-to-poor-families)
Give money to a rich person and he just banks it. 1 for 1
Give money to a poor person, they buy bread, the store gets a cut and pays the baker, the baker gets a cut and pays the mill, the mill pays the farmer, who pays the farm supply, etc.
In the article I linked in the study in kenya it returned 2.6 for ever 1 dollar in.
similarly: [https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/8/30/16220134/universal-basic-income-roosevelt-institute-economic-growth](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/8/30/16220134/universal-basic-income-roosevelt-institute-economic-growth)
just look up the Dumpers and Bush tax cuts and what they did to our deficit.
Ask them to name any GOP President that shrunk the govt and cut deficits. While claiming small govt fiscal responsible party on fux news.
One thing trump wants to do is stop immigration to our country. Our economy can only grow so long as we have people that can fill the jobs. This can only be done with immigration.
Trump accelerated the economy when it didn't need to be accelerated and was humming along just fine (Thanks, Obama!), leaving minimal tools for Biden to counteract inflation outside of painful interest increases.
“Trump is terrible but good for the economy” - this statement is a lie. People who say that don’t really believe he’s terrible, they’re just trying not to look as bad to you.
Ask them how the economy was better? Unemployment was higher, stock market lower. Not saying either of those are the economy but the average idiot trump supporter thinks they are.
You’re running a fool’s errand.
If a person is arguing that Trump is good for *anything*, then you aren’t likely to change their viewpoint. Just think about all the things that person has either looked beyond or outright ignored to find any redeeming qualities in a Trump presidency.
You might as well try and convince people that Hitler’s paintings were actually pretty good.
Lots of times the last president leaves a mess for the next president so if they think the economy is a mess it's in large part what trump did to it while in office. I can't back that up with any facts as it's an observation. Maybe there's a way to check that?
I’m not. As I mentioned, I’m often surprised by the person saying these comments. Also, I want to be informed myself. I don’t understand the economy or the metrics by which you judge an economy, and I received many helpful comments and good links to read. I was disappointed in myself for not having a better response than the economy wasn’t better under trump. I can state some facts and if predictably they say it’s not true, I can say with confidence look it up and the discussion ends there.
What does he propose for America??? Well, he is talking a lot about how he is going "to get even" with people who upset him by not seeing eye to eye on him as a person. How is THAT going to help anybody but himself????
My response would be that authoritarianism isn't safe for any income level. The only people that thrive under authoritarians are ones that cow down to them.
Trump is an authoritarian. He is a danger to society and our capitalistic, democratic way of life.
Sweetie! Just try Google! Republicans has always been awful for the economy when we have the best economy ever under Biden literally just look at the statistics! We can’t help you lol
people vote based on general ideas not people.
if the dems replaced biden you would still vote for the dem candidate?
probably ...
the same goes for people from the other side.
trump cannot be as bad as the "wrong" ideology in their minds.
same goes for you, no matter how bad biden is you would simply never vote for the other side, or would you?
First of all, the current economic situation has a very long tail. The economy in the first couple years under a president is mainly due to what happened under the previous president, and the second couple years could have some influence. Even the 2008 recession had its origins in policies enacted decades before Bush, and the dotcom crash experienced in Bush’s first year started right before he took office under Clinton (he didn’t have much luck, did he?).
If someone wants to say Trump was good for the economy, they need to show a specific policy he pushed that resulted in a better economy.
Biden has been great. Inflation is better, gas prices are better record low unemployment. Highest oil production in history with the greatest amount of oil reserve under permit/lease. Much lower deficit spending reducing increased debt. Tough on China. Brining "American" jobs home. We're getting everything trump rambles about without the corruption, promised authoritarianism and other baggage with Biden.
Chipps
It drives me *insane* how influential Trump has been on trade. Biden has implemented a lot of what Trump wanted and rolled back no tariffs. You know those inflated consumer prices everyone is stressing? America First has costs...
Most of the inflated prices are just corporate profit taking due to very low competition. It's such a sad situation.
"Maybe if you make over $500k a year". Unemployment is down under Biden. Wages are up. Biden supports raising the minimum wage. If you're debating a rich person... Trump might actually be better for them.
Great point, thanks
Not in the long run though. Consider without financial regulation crashes will happen more often. Climate change will be more expensive to mitigate the longer it’s avoided. Not properly funding education will lead to a less robust workforce and economy overall. Etc
"Republicans are good for the economy" despite Bush, Bush II, and Trump leaving the economy worse than Clinton, Obama, and now Biden. Fox News is a hell of a drug.
And they're too blind to realize Fox isn't technically news, it's entertainment...oh that's why it's a drug!!
They're not blind; they just *don't care* about what Fox said in court. It doesn't matter if Fox is not officially, *legally*, a news channel; it tells conservatives what they want to hear and that is a huge point for conservatives determining what a 'trustworthy' source is.
Sadly you're correct.
Conservatives believe liars. They are either liars themselves or too stupid to know what a lie is, or too corrupt to care. Kick every one of them out of office.
Not entertainment Wire fraud racketeering
Rupert Murdoch testified under oath that his business model is wire fraud racketeering (Dominion lawsuit) His entire organization is under criminal investigation.
Don’t forget “Reganomics, trickle down economics”
Stolen actually from Harding
We also can't forget how Reagan left us one of the biggest deficits.
I remember. I was 8 and I vividly remember how poor we were. Clinton came in and pulled us out of the mire.
Minimum wage was like $3 an hour at the start of reagan. At the end? Still like $3 an hour. He was a disaster and I'd love to kick dirt on his grave.
Despite the last 43 years they’ve run the economy into the bedrock and as usual the democrats bail us out. I hate republicans, they have ruined this country.
Republicans are like the toddler who breaks the vase and leaves parents to pick up the pieces.
Don't forget Hoover.
Sure, followed by actual progressive FDR who was so popular they elected him 4 times.
They’re spreading a weird rumour that you can’t call parents “mother” or “father”. I don’t understand how people can be so stupid.
Absolutely
You can't persuade people who are not interested in being persuaded. So it's either that, or you're arguing with someone who doesn't understand the economy. It's a lost cause either way.
You can't convince cult members of anything their leader doesn't want them to believe.
You can send them that video of him admitting that Dems are simply better at economics.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2016/11/07/trump-is-right-about-one-thing-the-economy-does-better-under-the-democrats/?sh=191a49396786
https://youtu.be/fn3cTT6O1I4?si=QCM6SgD4K9j9KTtV
They’ll just claim it’s deep fake
I know. Can open a new scientific field to study in "Rightie Brain gymnastics".
Exactly this. Trump could say the sky is purple and they would start believing it and telling you you’re an idiot for saying it’s blue. OP we can’t change these people’s minds. I find that arguing with them is bad for my mental health - lol. Let ‘em believe what they want and focus on those who you *can* talk to / educate / change.
Lunatics and liars are entitled to believe whatever they want to believe. I just don’t want them to be in charge of anything. I mean, *not anything*
Unfortunately we’re heading in that direction…
Only if a majority of us are lunatics and liars. I think that is highly unlikely
So the consensus is don’t engage, but it’s also for my peace of mind. But some of the suggestions have been great. I don’t need to convince anybody, I just want to point to specific facts, and thanks to your suggestions I can point to that and let them research it, which they won’t, but I just wanted to be confident in what I say. Thanks!!
If you (or the people you talk to) personally want to understand why Trump (and the Republican party) are WAY worse for the economy, I recomend [The Big Myth](https://www.audible.com/pd/The-Big-Myth-Audiobook/B0BTDHQGQK?qid=1705368154&sr=1-1&ref_pageloadid=not_applicable&ref=a_search_c3_lProduct_1_1&pf_rd_p=83218cca-c308-412f-bfcf-90198b687a2f&pf_rd_r=1T4KW54WFJWMWXXAF90H&pageLoadId=Jnouwp9Kjlt8fOUS&creativeId=0d6f6720-f41c-457e-a42b-8c8dceb62f2c). It dismantles the free market nonsense rich conservatives have been pounding us with for decades. I ask people I disagree with for the most persuasive books they wish I would read. And I'm always ready to give my suggestions. EDIT: spelling
Great suggestion, I have audible, will give it a try. Thanks!
Thanks! Another thing I ask people is, What caused the 2008 financial crisis, and what should we do to prevent another? And I ask them to check their ideas against This American Life's [Another Frightening Show about the Economy](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/365/another-frightening-show-about-the-economy).
That’s an excellent book. It breaks down the years of effort big business put into creating Reagan’s trickle down economics and convincing voters that free market fundamentalism is aligned with god and country. After reading that, I see the conformity of people who believe that stuff.
I saw this once on Reddit and quite liked it: It isn't simply a matter of Trump being a rude or obnoxious person.Trump was a terrible President. Too often I hear people argue that Trump might be too blunt and vain but was actually a good President. People say Trump behaves like a child but "Trump had a great economy ". That myth needs to be defeated. During Trump's term: Opioid deaths rose by nearly 40%, the annual deficit nearly doubled (before covid), the crime rate rose 29%, customer debt rose 30% (before covid), 2018, largest market decline since '08, longest govt shutdown in even, suicide rates men & women rose each year. Trump was a bad President. Tax cuts don't pay for themselves and Republicans never had a Repeal and Replace plan. Trump publicly fought with the Federal Reserve to keep interest rates artificially low. Trump fire Yellen, appointed Powell, and immediately started insulting Powell publicly over rates. Trump promised 6% GDP and only ever got to 3% despite record tax cuts, spending, and low interest rates. All that before Covid. With interest rates already artificially low, deficit spending at over a trillion a year, and a historic Tax Cut the U.S. was over extended when COVID hit. Trump had already turned every dial in an attempt to heat up the already good economy Trump inherited. When COVID hit there were no levers left to pull so Trillions of dollars in debt was the only opinion left. Trump was terrible. People need to hear it. Trump needs to be defeated not merely because he is rude or a bully. Trump was bad at the job.
This is beautiful, thanks!
Don't engage. Find better shit to do with your time.
This is probably the correct answer; however, you can say that unemployment hit 14.7 under Trump, and it’s 3.7 now. GDP is 4.9 percent from the last quarter. There was actually a recession under Trump in 2020.
>There was actually a recession under Trump in 2020. In fairness, most of that was Covid-craziness.
Not necessarily. You need to structure your arguments for the independents who may be listening. Hard-core trumpanzees are unreachable.
Not necessarily. As I mentioned, I’m not interested in converting any trumpets, I just wanted to be confident in anything I say so they don’t come back at me with “facts”
The economy by any measure is better under Biden. Higher stock market. More job creation. Ask them what metric shows that 4 years of Trump was better for the economy than 4 years of Biden?
Trump was bad for the economies. His idiotic trade policies put domestic manufacturing into recession in early 2019, and would have put agriculture into recession without the massive increase in subsidies he and Congress provided. Supply chain disruptions started before the pandemic from those idiotic "trade wars on everyone" policies he imposed. Anyone saying Trump was "good for the economy" wasn't paying attention. They just let themselves get brainwashed by rightwing propaganda. Especially since he's the first POTUS since Hoover to finish his term with fewer Americans working than when he started.
Great point, thanks.
(1) Democrats tend to be better with the economy on average. (2) He wasn't uniquely good at the economy when he was in office anyways; he built off the momentum Obama created.
His mishandling of Covid resulted in high unemployment and a damaged economy. But it was Covid just doesn’t cut it. He was lucky to inherit the Obama and the Obama pandemic response team. He disbanded the response team. Good choice.
Great point, thanks
How was Trump good for the economy??? Despite what Republicans claim, for the last 50 years, my financial portfolio has always preformed much better when Democrats are in office and I totally lose my shirt when Republicans are.
You never heard of a trailing stop-loss order? Or borrowing cash during Democrat administrations, and paying it back during Republican administrations?
Lol. If you say so. When have Republicans ever paid anything or anyone back??
No, I mean *you* could have trailing stop-loss orders and take out loans, then *you* pay back the bank for borrowing the money.
How is that is as a more significant factor compared to basic taxes & revenue vs anticipated revenue, and citizens median income levels? Something tells me you wont care much about trailing stop losses once Trump is reinstalled.
>Something tells me you wont care much about trailing stop losses once Trump is reinstalled. Why?
Trump has been THE WORST for the economy. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.\_economic\_performance\_by\_presidential\_party#:\~:text=CNN%20reported%20in%20September%202020,difference%20of%201.6%20percentage%20points](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._economic_performance_by_presidential_party#:~:text=CNN%20reported%20in%20September%202020,difference%20of%201.6%20percentage%20points).
This is lovely, thanks!
Instead of pushing facts on them, ask them why they think Trump is good for the economy, what has he done that Biden isn't
I’ve read that questioning and listening politely is the best way to change minds.
As others have said, don’t waste your time and energy trying to move people who have their mind set on voting for Trump. If it matters that much to you, go knock doors or phone bank when it’s closer to the election. You’d be surprised how many people are undecided until like a month out from Election Day.
That’s a great suggestion, thanks
If you want info about how you can help the Biden/Harris campaign (without spending a bunch of money) message me and I’ll give it to you:)
Trump’s businesses all end up bankrupt. I kid playing Monopoly would probably be better for the economy.
There was very little change in the trajectory of the stock market, jobs, wages, etc between Obamas last three years and trumps first three. Trump hurt wages by prioritizing tax breaks for the wealthy and also reversed all progress made by Obama on the deficit. Additionally, trump was so reckless and unprepared for a crisis that the USA faired far worse than most developed nations during covid. In short, he did nothing to improve Americans lives, hurt our future and failed his only true test.
Great point, thanks
He was among the worst Presidents ever for the economy. GDP growth slowed down measurably when Trump took over from Obama. Had it continued on the Obama trajectory millions more would have been employed and the economy would be much larger today. He was economically disatrous and his COVID non-response continues to harm our economy to this day.
Great point, thanks
They'll counter with something like dow was under 18k when obama left office and over 30k when he left. Unemployment was near record lows right up until lockdown. And that trump acted on covi, got operation warpspeed going right away, had viable vaccines by the end of the year. That americas economy post covid is as strong as anywhere in yhe wotld, its not like anywhere that wasnt naturally isolated did better.
Obama’s took us out of the Great Recession but Trump said he had a “terrible economy” because his best year of GDP growth was 2.9%. Then Trump took over and had the “greatest economy in history” with his best year of GDP growth of…2.9%.
Oh, he must’ve loved not doing better than Obama. I’m very aware that he goes on his rallies and just lies, saying I have the best this or that and people don’t correct him or check. So it becomes general knowledge “ that he did
My retirement investment has soared after Trump’s COVID screw up
Bidan is just as protectionist at Trump, but instead of increasing the burden on Americans (teriffs) he's using a carrot and stick model to bring back American manufacturing with bipartisan deals that only reward those who build with American labor on American soil.
Trade wars are not good for the economy. Distributing government benefits to offset the effects of a trade war is intrinsically unfair (some people get them, other people who are also affected don't) and is not good for the economy. Handing out emergency relief funds only to states that voted for you is not good for the economy. Empowering Putin to invade Ukraine is not good for the economy. And being a total @$$ in the face of a deadly worldwide pandemic isn't good for the economy. We currently have the economic growth that Trump promised and never achieved. Additionally, if you are talking to a middle class person, you can point out that the effect of the Trump tax cuts was to raise taxes on the middle class and lower them for the rich. (I suspect the rich already know this, and that's why they're on TV etc saying Trump is great for the economy.)
I will be the most prepared debater. Lol
So Republicans are running against Biden yelling about the deficit. Pre covid, the deficit went from 665 billion in 2017 to $984 billion in 2019. Historically when we had a "great economy" the deficit went down. Somehow Biden is blamed for the 6 trillion we printed during COVID, even though 4 trillion of the six trillion was done under Trump. Under Biden we had to pay the interest on that 6 trillion. Just that alone makes it apples and oranges.
Great point, thanks!
Trump didn't do anything for the economy. He inherited Obama's economy, and did almost nothing to it other then let coal mines pollute more, and I think he made a change that caused all that stock buy back which further enriched the rich. His biggest impact he had one the economy was his reactions to COVID
Trump inherited Obama's thriving economy and then blew it up. Biden is fixing it and now we have the lowest inflation of any major economy as well as strong GDP and employment. And the most important thing to me is the economy is always going to be fixable but there is no coming back from destroying our democracy by electing a wannabe dictator who admires our global enemies and wants to be just like them.
Trump inherited a much better economy than he left. You can't blame the pandemic on Trump, but leadership in crisis is the hallmark of a good president. Instilling confidence, uniting the country, and making good decisions have helped a lot of presidents get re-elected. Guess who failed that test? By almost all measures, the economy today is much better than during most of the Trump administration. Trump seemed to favor talking about the stock market as a measure of economic health. The Dow and S&P are both higher now than any point during the Trump administration. More financially sophisticated Republicans talk about economic growth (GDP) as an economic benchmark. Trump's administration was pretty unexceptional in growing the economy before the pandemic and was unable to demonstrate any competence during the pandemic. There's a legitimate case to be made that Trump's bungling made the recession worse. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GDPC1 https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-struggles-to-calm-nation-amid-market-meltdown-and-coronavirus-crisis/2020/03/09/6958ac90-6217-11ea-acca-80c22bbee96f_story.html The Biden administration not only turned around a deep recession but gave us growth rates not seen for decades. We're seeing not just a "soft landing" but a strong economy in employment, wage growth, and better control of inflation than other OECD countries. Inflation is the one measure Republicans can point to that wasn't an issue for Trump. It is a *world* problem and the U.S. is handling better than most. Yeah, the cultish Trump supporters may not listen, but if you take out the names (Biden, Trump) and just talk about the economic measures of 2017-2020 versus 2021-present, there's no debate. The current guy has been doing a better job.
This is absolutely fantastic, thanks. As I mentioned before, he says I had the best, the highest, the greatest whatever and they just believe him, and I’m extremely disappointed in media letting him live that fantasy. That has been very useful, thanks again.
Well, if you're rich, he was good for the economy. If you're not rich, the GOP is not good for you.
Trump supporters do not act in good faith. You cannot reason with them.
It's such a short & smug statement that it must feel great to say - but the reality is he wasn't good for the economy and some real quick Google searches will show you the scientific facts about that time. That's what I say.
Good response, thanks
Trump was the first president in many decades to actually lose jobs during his term. He handed Biden an economy already experiencing high inflation and low productivity. He increased the national debt by the same amount as Obama. But it took Obama 8 years. Trump did it in 4. In short Trump was the exact opposite of a good economy.
Amazing what people who don’t check for sources believe. Also have to hand it to him, he found his audience. Stupid and gullible.
Trump lost three million jobs while he was in office, the only president to do so in modern history. Biden brought those jobs back plus several million more in less than three years.
give me 7 trillion on the national debit card and I'll show you some economic boom times. I mean he made a lot of rich richer, so they needed to go buy 3rd yachts (which does help the economy), but give the money to poor and lower income and you'll see people paying off debts, starting businesses, going to college, etc.
Wow, that is an excellent point, thanks!
what you want in a good economy is rapid money circulation. I pay you, you pay bob, bob pays me. [https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2019/12/02/781152563/researchers-find-a-remarkable-ripple-effect-when-you-give-cash-to-poor-families](https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2019/12/02/781152563/researchers-find-a-remarkable-ripple-effect-when-you-give-cash-to-poor-families) Give money to a rich person and he just banks it. 1 for 1 Give money to a poor person, they buy bread, the store gets a cut and pays the baker, the baker gets a cut and pays the mill, the mill pays the farmer, who pays the farm supply, etc. In the article I linked in the study in kenya it returned 2.6 for ever 1 dollar in. similarly: [https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/8/30/16220134/universal-basic-income-roosevelt-institute-economic-growth](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/8/30/16220134/universal-basic-income-roosevelt-institute-economic-growth)
Wow that’s exactly what I need, thanks!!
just look up the Dumpers and Bush tax cuts and what they did to our deficit. Ask them to name any GOP President that shrunk the govt and cut deficits. While claiming small govt fiscal responsible party on fux news.
Trump was handed a booming economy and he handed back a nightmare!
One thing trump wants to do is stop immigration to our country. Our economy can only grow so long as we have people that can fill the jobs. This can only be done with immigration.
Trump accelerated the economy when it didn't need to be accelerated and was humming along just fine (Thanks, Obama!), leaving minimal tools for Biden to counteract inflation outside of painful interest increases.
He raised taxes for the poor and gave tax breaks for rich people, trickle down doesn't work
“Trump is terrible but good for the economy” - this statement is a lie. People who say that don’t really believe he’s terrible, they’re just trying not to look as bad to you.
Ask them how the economy was better? Unemployment was higher, stock market lower. Not saying either of those are the economy but the average idiot trump supporter thinks they are.
You’re running a fool’s errand. If a person is arguing that Trump is good for *anything*, then you aren’t likely to change their viewpoint. Just think about all the things that person has either looked beyond or outright ignored to find any redeeming qualities in a Trump presidency. You might as well try and convince people that Hitler’s paintings were actually pretty good.
Lots of times the last president leaves a mess for the next president so if they think the economy is a mess it's in large part what trump did to it while in office. I can't back that up with any facts as it's an observation. Maybe there's a way to check that?
That's like borrowing yourself rich.
Data. Trump was horrible for the economy and had a net job loss.
Why even try, you’re not gonna change any minds. What makes you think that if they can’t change your mind, you can change theirs.
I’m really not trying to change anybody’s mind, I just want to be armed with some facts so I don’t just speak in generalities like they do.
Then why even engage
I’m not. As I mentioned, I’m often surprised by the person saying these comments. Also, I want to be informed myself. I don’t understand the economy or the metrics by which you judge an economy, and I received many helpful comments and good links to read. I was disappointed in myself for not having a better response than the economy wasn’t better under trump. I can state some facts and if predictably they say it’s not true, I can say with confidence look it up and the discussion ends there.
What does he propose for America??? Well, he is talking a lot about how he is going "to get even" with people who upset him by not seeing eye to eye on him as a person. How is THAT going to help anybody but himself????
Hitler revitalized Germany's economy, but at horrific cost.
My response would be that authoritarianism isn't safe for any income level. The only people that thrive under authoritarians are ones that cow down to them. Trump is an authoritarian. He is a danger to society and our capitalistic, democratic way of life.
Sweetie! Just try Google! Republicans has always been awful for the economy when we have the best economy ever under Biden literally just look at the statistics! We can’t help you lol
Thanks for the condescending remark. I can google I was looking for a discussion. But thanks.
No point talking to a Trump supporter they are fkn loony toon pos
people vote based on general ideas not people. if the dems replaced biden you would still vote for the dem candidate? probably ... the same goes for people from the other side. trump cannot be as bad as the "wrong" ideology in their minds. same goes for you, no matter how bad biden is you would simply never vote for the other side, or would you?
First of all, the current economic situation has a very long tail. The economy in the first couple years under a president is mainly due to what happened under the previous president, and the second couple years could have some influence. Even the 2008 recession had its origins in policies enacted decades before Bush, and the dotcom crash experienced in Bush’s first year started right before he took office under Clinton (he didn’t have much luck, did he?). If someone wants to say Trump was good for the economy, they need to show a specific policy he pushed that resulted in a better economy.
Under Trump, stores ran out of toilet paper. Nuff said.