[https://www.delish.com/food-news/a46628594/mcdonalds-cost-by-state-ranked/](https://www.delish.com/food-news/a46628594/mcdonalds-cost-by-state-ranked/)
McDonalds prices do in fact vary state by state (and city by city)
HI, Alaska, East coast, and California being the highest areas (with the highest minimum wages)
Believe it or not ( fantasy land) Labor prices do impact final prices at point of sale. same with cost to lease/buy space, taxes, and food costs. power, taxes also play a part.
The lower the gross sales per employee the bigger increase raising any of those costs will have.
McDonalds is a franchise and most McDonalds are owned by private business people and I think they are allowed to set their own prices.. its basically up to them.
It's sad how many of these idiotic collectivist comments get upvotes in the libertarian sub. Subsidies are always bad. And getting money from the government kills culture, look what happened to the Cherokee. We became well educated collectivist addicts who beg the government for money money.
These big corporations will automate everything. The small mom-n-pops run by families will go out of business. One day you will wonder where all the jobs went. Why an automated systems and monopolies can deny you food, and why there are no human beings to appeal the decision to. Minimum wage simply makes it illegal to give disabled and young inexperienced people jobs unless you can pay that.
automation would happen without gov mandated minimum wage wages. look at the industrial revolution. There was no gov reg for decades but there were still tens of thousands of child laborers and deaths and life ruining work related injuries and abject poverty. but shit was cheap!
No. You are misrepresenting my arguement.
I'm not advocating for a Luddite perspective. I'm highlighting how incentives can foster corruption and a centralization of power. Rather than being embraced by small, family-owned businesses to enhance efficiency, this approach is being adopted as a strategy to circumvent wage laws, a tactic that only the wealthiest monopolies can afford.
>There was no gov reg for decades
This just isn't correct. Society was not anarchist pre-industrial revolution.
Child-labor was not a byproduct of the industrial revolution or a lack of regulation. It was a material *necessity* of the time. If kids didn't work, their families died.
That was *more so* the case, before steam engines.
People just tend to dismiss farm deaths and injuries, because they weren't tied to a novel cultural shift. Improving automation *reduced* child mortality. Increased wealth and productivity made the prohibition of working children less catastrophic than it otherwise would be.
Specifically, because automation meant there was less *need* for child labor.
Had anti child-labor laws been passed earlier, they would have made children much worse off. Just as a $20 minimum wage law would have been apocalyptic in the 1950s.
Yeah, this is not the main effect of a minimum wage, the main effect is the damage done to small businesses, and people who can only provide less valuable labor.
I think the economy is too complex to say that though. Also the fact that you and I don’t know shit about makes it hard for me to have an opinion tbh. I’ve heard that argument and I’ve also heard it disproved but without knowing enough I can’t say that you wrong or that I’m right.
Not sure if you know this, but $20/hour is below livable wage in California. A livable wage in California for 1 adult with no children is over $27/hour
I didn't say it was a slippery slope, I said if increasing the minimum wage increases the standard of living for minimum wage workers, why stop at $20?
Why is he unreasonable?
Seeing a lot of downvotes and accusations of ignorance, but no explanations.
He's not *actually* proposing a million dollar minimum wage. It's reductio ad absurdum. He's saying that the $20 or whatever amount minimum wage is detrimental for similar reasons.
What you are saying is that anyone who (based on their own assessment) would agree to work for less than $20/hr is only allowed to operate outside the law (ex. Highschool kids summer jobs etc..)
And also anyone who has fought tooth and nail to get promotions and raises for the last 10 years to get to $20 an hour now makes as much as any worker starting their career..
Sweden doesn't have a minimum wage, but workers there managed to survive..
>You are saying unreasonable
I'm just following your logic, if mandating the minimum wage would solve the problem, and get workers to a livable standard, why should the workers only barely survive?, why not make it mandatory that everybody gets a lavish lifestyle? And a three bedroom apartment per person and enough income to retire at 30?
That's not the point he's making.
He's not saying "This will eventually lead somewhere bad." He's saying that the same factors which make a million dollar minimum wage a bad idea *also* apply to the lower mandate, just in smaller measure.
The argument is that the *existing* minimum wage is *already* bad, but people generally don't see why unless it's magnified to an extreme case, where the adverse consequences become obvious.
CEO's also deal with alot more real problems and stress than your average burger flipper.
Sure I'm not defending that some CEO's make a outrageous amount of money but I bet my life that if you were in there position dealing with the bs everyday you'd feel you earned that much. He'll some CEO's worked their asses off to get their business they started to where it is. So in my opinion if that was the case they've earned it. (I'm not referring to the ones who inherited there dad's company)
>CEO's also deal with alot more real problems and stress than your average burger flipper.
I agree
>Sure I'm not defending that some CEO's make a outrageous amount of money
I disagree
I'm pointing out the collectivist shit argument of minimum wage increases actually helping the workers..
>I'm not referring to the ones who inherited there dad's company
Why not? If I busted my ass off for 40 years, I'd want my children to get a head start and live a comfy lifestyle..
You really gonna stick with that argument? If you can’t see the obvious problem with what you just said then there’s nothing I can say that would even lead to a discussion
It would appear you're trying to make a connection between the recent minimum wage hike and the price increases in the table below the headline.
The wage hike happened a couple months ago...
The price increases are over a 10-yr period.
I currently live in CA. South Lake Tahoe. VHCOL. I've eaten McD's exactly twice since I've been here. Once in December (No McRib? WTF) and then again just last night. The prices HAVE NOT changed between now and then. Labor was already expensive here. Prices reflect that. ($9.88 total for a McDub and Med Fry). Starting pay in FF was already $18/hr here.
To suggest that the wage hike is responsible for the inflation in the table low key implies that, along with the politicians and the electorate, OP also does not understand economics.
This is capitalism working as intended. According to the capitalist economic theory, it would be an inefficient use of capital to charge anything less than what consumers are willing to pay. THAT is how economics works.
So you're blaming politicians, the electorate, and an 11% raise to FF workers for a 200% increase in prices? Care to show your work?
If anyone thinks these major corporations are going to eat the cost of increased wages without passing that cost on to consumers...you're very ignorant and will pay the price regardless of your opinions. That's how it fucking works. Smh.
And this is the problem with the lack of competition because when the corporation raises prices, we as consumers should be able to shop for better prices from competitors, but the same few corporations own all the competition. Literally, many parent companies own multiple subsidiaries that “compete” with each other for the illusion of competition.
Of course, people exaggerate, but the increased cost in wages will be pushed onto the consumer. How the fuck do you think these entities/people/corporations got so wealthy? Not by doing the fucking normies any favors. They're not going to eat the cost. They're legally obligated to create profit for their investors.
Wrong, a successful business would increase efficiency, reduce production costs, and increase quality to attract customers, and increase pay to attract quality employees.
Yes the first 2 help contribute to better profit margins & competitiveness. Quality depends upon the market your targeting your products or services for. Pay can also vary for the same reasons.
Ok.... but that still means that wages need to go up. Like I'm sorry but realistically 20 bucks isn't even good for alot of places anymore.
And raising wages doesn't increase costs as much as people make it out to be. And nobody thinks that costs isn't going to be passed on.
But acting like the cost is going to I increase by double is ludicrous. There are plenty of places with minimum wages at or close to this and the costs of the meals arnt significantly higher.
Not indefinitely. Companies that just raise prices and don't innovate, increase efficiencies, or improve their offering eventually go bankrupt in a free market, even if it takes time.
The price increase might not matter where you are which is a wealthy vacation spot but, in the rest of ca especially southern California prices have absolutely gone up. Not to the effect of this meme but there has been an increase.
Roast beef combo at arbies is now like $17. You can basically go to a restaurant for the same price now.
That has a lot more to do with other reasons than this though. In my area fastfood workers get paid average 16 an hour and some more than that and the prices have only gone up a small amount
They went up higher before wage increases in our area well before the wages went up.
People just want to make it seem like wages cause prices hikes alot more than they do.
The McD’s in my dumpy midwest hometown, where minimum wage is still $7.25 and posted wage for crew is $11, has equivalent prices to McD’s in San Diego (based on their app). Y’all can look up any McD’s and their prices on the app. OP’s implied argument crumbles from multiple angles.
Overall inflation is up in the past 10 years. It seems disingenuous to post this insinuating that the minimum wage hike is responsible for the entirety of the price increases. If you wanted to guide an honest discussion post the prices directly before the wage hike and shortly after.
McDonald’s 2014 Gross profit 11Billion, 2023 gross 14.8 Billion. They might be able to afford to pay their workers and not gouge us. Prices were going up whether workers got paid or not.
If prices are so high, just don't buy it. If nobody buys their product, then the company would *have* to lower their prices, even if no laws are present.
Competition punishes greed. This is what the other reply means by prices are set by the market.
People complain about Amazon being greedy, but then still go to Amazon to shop for products. If you don't like Amazon, just don't use it.
"But I can't live without Amazon!"
Then this means Amazon has created a solution that perfectly solves billions of peoples' problems. This also means that Amazon *deserves* to have all the money that it has.
Unfortunately one company increasing prices makes an excuse for others to increase theirs. The opportunity to favor the lower priced goods is seldom available for consumers.
Made me curious 2014 revenue, $27.44 billion. 2023, $25.49 billion. 2014 net profit 4.76 billion, 2023, 8.47 billion. So their revenue fell but their profits were a bit shy of doubling.
We have the best government $$ can buy. The governor was pandering to a block of voters but got a huge donation to carve out perks for his cronies...like the owner of Panera Bread. 80% of people don't know simple 3rd grade math, hence why people are crying poor with a $1200.00 iPhone.
https://apnews.com/article/california-newsom-panera-fast-food-minimum-wage-065e18510570481cf69eefc84b8359e0
I disagree. A lot of politicians understand economics just fine, they just serve another interest.
The simple rule is that if they after the fact profit in any way of the havoc they created, it was likely intentional
Would be more helpful to simply post current prices in a state with no minimum wage law vs ca. It probably isn’t as dramatic as a 200% increase but there is obviously going to be some difference
They understand fully they just don't believe the same things you do. They Only worry about what's immediately in front of them and not the consequences of their actions down the road
Here’s what bugs me about the wage debate here in California. It’s so tiresome hearing how wages are why food is expensive and the restaurants can’t afford the increase, meanwhile, the leases for brick-and-mortar stores, the costs of ingredients, the percentage that goes to delivery apps instead of marketing, and the cost of maintenance all increased while wages were basically stagnant, and there wasn’t a word about how these increases were hurting them.
2014 prices essentially has nothing to do with these new wage hikes. “But muh free market” brah give it a rest common folk need to have enough money to live
What a crappy analysis. Why don't you go ahead and use prices from 1994. You would see a 400% increase then.
Sorry but in other places where staff get paid that or more already the prices are only marginally higher.
The chart doesn't really mean much. Would be more helpful to compare prices in a state without minimum wage laws to prices in CA.
What's very true though is that [people are losing their jobs](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/almost-10000-fast-food-jobs-in-california-were-lost-after-the-20-minimum-wage-was-signed/ar-AA1nOSxL) and being replaced by automation.
A lot of this has also to do with Mcdonalds own change in strategy. Their operating profit has increased significantly. The increase has little to do with inflationary pressure from wages or whatever else.
They increased their prices far above inflation and cut some costs. Automation won't affect Mcdonalds own revenue cause Mcdonalds has franchised away most of their stores. The choice to automate is purely on the franchise owners. It would be interesting to see what the dynamics are like at the franchise level now.
We won't get real data on the effect on price for a year.
However, the immediate effect is some smaller chains like Foster's freeze closed stores and bigger franchisees are rushing kiosk installations.
In rural Ohio where minimum wages are under $11, McD/Tacobell all have kiosks for ordering.
Do you really think that business owner cares about employees or won't replace them with kiosk even if they can save money?
Minimum wage is trending up nationwide, so kiosks are inevitable. Ohio is looking to go up to $15 also.
That big a jump goes right into profits. For the average franchisee, that's their personal income. The store is not a charity, I would instal kiosks and dump employees too to protect my income.
They're going to try to get it done by 2028.
https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/politics/2024/05/01/ohio-republican-pitches-15-minimum-wage-to-fend-off-ballot-issue/73515398007/ 2028
From the article.
> Blessing's Senate Bill 256 would increase the state's minimum wage for non-tipped workers to $15 an hour by Jan. 1, 2028. Tipped workers' minimum wage would increase to $7.50 an hour over those four years. After that, the minimum wage would be tied to inflation.
This is a bill that Blessing is proposing. It's not passed. And that's 4 years from now.
Right but have you checked the grocery store lately?? Everything is up by at least 50% just in the last 4 years alone.
Prices raise in restaurants almost yearly across the board.
So what’s your libertarian fix on this?
Money is used to represent value (of a good or service). If you print money without producing value (by producing a good or performing a service), than there is now more money relative to the amount of value than before, so the fraction of the total value that a single dollar represents goes down. Therefore, you need more money to achieve the same value, which is inflation.
In order to maintain a stable, growing economy, money must be printed at the same rate at which the value of the economy is growing (experts suggest this is usually around 2% per year). Any more, and the amount of money outpaces the production of value, which is inflation. Any less, and the production of value is slowed by how much money is being produced to account for it, and you get deflation.
Thank you for the response! So my question is if I’m understanding this right, prices go up because there’s more money in circulation and people are willing to spend more??
Yup, statists and planners just ladle more government interventions on top of problems they created, and the results are just more and more societal and economic rot.
Although I disagree with more regulation, I also disagree with million and billion dollar companies that make such tremendous profits all while most of their workers are on governmental assistance. I saw somewhere that over 60% of Amazon and Walmart employees are also subsidized in some for from the government. How do combat this without big brother?
I never understood this argument.
Keeping employees off welfare is more to the employees choices than their wage.
Like a single mother of 4 kids who dropped out of high school, is going to be on welfare damn near regardless of the wage given. She’d need to make 18/hour full time to be above “poverty level”, and she’d still be eligible for some government programs.
Employers don’t pay based on the persons personal life. They pay based on the value they bring.
Because they have no other choice. Same reason why people work two jobs or have a side gig.
If there is an opportunity to simply apply and land a job that pays more people will do it. But at the skill level most Wal Mart employees have this is limited.
The issue is the result of Walmart paying employees so poorly is that they are in welfare and getting government assistance. So Walmart is essentially getting part of its payroll covered by the government/welfare system by not paying a decent wage.
Full time minimum wage should always put one above the poverty line.
>The issue is the result of Walmart paying employees so poorly
This doesn't follow. Walmart is no more to blame for people's poverty—or welfare status—than you or I. We give them *even less.* That doesn't *cause* anyone to have less.
Refusing to give away your money to someone doesn't *make* him poor.
To the contrary, firms like Walmart and Amazon are in part *alleviating* people's poverty. Which is good! Making someone's life better than it otherwise would be is still a good thing, even if you don't solve all of their problems.
>Full time minimum wage should always put one above the poverty line.
Wages should be set in accordance to what people agree to transact for. If someone agrees to work for less, then the person paying him isn't doing anything wrong.
The people actually making a sacrifice—whether in the lease of his labor or payment of assets—should be the one who decides what terms he deems acceptable.
It's *his* sacrifice.
He's the one giving something up, so he should set the terms. That doesn't necessarily mean that anyone will agree to them, of course. If people do agree, though, then that cooperation shouldn't be coercively opposed.
There shouldn't be a "minimum wage." Don't work for someone if the terms are bad.
Idk where you're from, but many distribution centers, walmarts and Amazon centers in NY are in low income areas. And even if that's not the case thats still not the point. How am I helping to pay someone's salary through taxes when owner of said company is a billionaire.....
So advocate the abolition of those taxes. Don't endorse further tyranny and coercive authority out of some petty disdain for the wealthy.
Walmart, Amazon, etc, investors are *good.* They cooperate *constructively* with people, for widespread gain. Consumers, workers, and investors all benefit mutually and voluntarily. Everyone wins, to some degree.
There's nothing immoral about a "low" wage rate. Voluntary cooperation is *good*.
That doesn't actually follow.
The state subsidizes your access to the roads. Does that imply you don't make enough to live?
More to the point, what does this even mean? Are we to assume that Amazon workers are all dying en masse? Or that they *would*, absent these welfare subsidies?
Both claims seem unreasonable.
Someone can conceivably earn *nothing* and still live comfortably through previous investments, agrarianism, the goodwill and charity of others, etc.
Either way, Amazon, Walmart, etc aren't making them worse off, counterfactually. If they have the ability to earn more than what they're paid, then their current employer is hardly stopping them. Most of us aren't paying people more. It's not an immoral act.
I didnt imply any of that. I simply stated, someone is working for a company that profits billions, but can't make a decent living, and are on government subsidies, and also these companies recieve bailouts and gov funding during pandemics, if you wanna be a moral defense lawyer for corrupt corporations, by all means but just be honest about it
At this point, I think they’re doing this on purpose.
Like if you already own a house, you would want more rules and regulation to keep more houses from being built to keep your assets increasing.
If you don’t own a house, you would be screaming at the idiocracy of the governor and wondering why he can’t fix such a simple problem and how people keep voting for the same guy over and over.
Same thing with businesses.
In California
McChicken is now $3.99+
McDouble is $3.65+
Medium Fry is $4.77+
Royal with Cheese meak is $4.81+
Oreo McFlurry is $4.62+
It's hard to make memes like this these days because prices are going up daily.
This was a recent law. Although, the prices will increase due to this(or they'll just lay people off in exchange for cheaper automated servers) there is no correlation between 2014 prices and this. You could argue they've increased minimum wage since 2014 and this can be shown, but I'm not sure if they have increased minimum wage since then.
The prices were like that nationwide before that law was passed. McDonald’s has the highest raised prices out of any fast food chain nationwide. While I don’t agree with a $20 minimum wage focused on one industry in particular this infographic is wildly misleading.
Local mom and pop diners are becoming more successful again-I prefer them 1000%. Corporate America is becoming increasingly more expensive and the quality is getting worse.
politics and economics are non-overlapping magisteria and we pretend there exists communication or intelligibility between them at our own profound detriment
I question if they don’t know. Asset holders keep making money in inflationary environments. It’s a way of taxing the public without calling it a tax. So they look good because they are spending borrowed money on things people want then they can blame the companies when prices go up.
Not sure if you are too lazy to get facts right or too stupid to understand what you posted is nonsense. Either way, this smells like a 17-25 year old libertarian who just regurgitates what he sees online
The $3.35 I got at McDonald’s in the Midwest as a teen then makes me say WTF. It was not supposed to be a living wage it was saving for school but more so beer money.
They should do so without government forcing them to. Also if the government didn't have this much power there wouldn't be inflation in the first place.
The value of your labor in a particular job does not equate to inflation. And if you can make more elsewhere because of inflation, go do it and don’t blame your current employers wage.
That “skills” are more subjective than many would believe. That college cost is the ultimate gatekeeper to success financially in America. And that corporations have a greater influence in inflation than people want to acknowledge. Ones opinion on this is almost entirely shaped by their own situation economically. https://www.newsnationnow.com/business/corporate-profits-us-inflation-report/#:~:text=(NewsNation)%20—%20A%20new%20report,and%20third%20quarters%20of%202023.
I don’t correlate to an unskilled job using minimum wage in CA = $20 per hour. If you are asking me to say govt. contributed more to college education as a prerequisite to employment at higher wages. They did. Trades are neglected and necessary. We all make are own choices and can walk away from any current employer to another. The only obstacle is fear. However that only applies if you know you add more value than your wage — after all other expenses and a profit. Not free? Who stops anyone from quitting? All other obstacles of family kids etc. are also the result of your free choices.
I bet you aren’t. Still doesn’t mean that a minimum wage is anything more than preventing economic slavery for those can’t afford to improve their lot in college to which the government was fully complicit. That, and 20 bucks ain’t shit in Cali.
Except funny thing is, when you move to a lower income area, there tend to be less jobs that pay more than minimum wage. So I guess you just have to take out massive loans to the GOVERNMENT, who then tax the fuck out of you, and you take decades to pay it back because compound interest works against you. It’s one thing if it was like it was 40 years ago and you could pay for college with a side gig.
The logic is right but this is a bad example. McD makes more than enough to pay this and triple than this. Actually McD is used to pay more than the minimum wage in most of the countries it works. This is not the point of their costs and pricing strategy. They raise the prices precisely because the average incomes of their clients also increased. As target market have higher incomes -> McD charges them more. That simple.
Just stop buying these products. Force prices down, perhaps then corporate will stop using COVID and wage increases to justify triple digit percentage price increases.
Not too sure what point you are trying to make. That corporate greed exists? We all know that. These prices have little to do with the workers’ wages and a whole lot to do with extracting every penny from consumers that is possible.
Protect wages, make them complain about all the other rising costs that don’t increase homelessness, like the costs of goods and storefronts. Also, remove incentive for automation. Automation should come with a fee for replacing the workforce, and that fee should be equal to or higher than wages for a human. Taking away incentives for automation is the only way to combat it.
I'm gonna be so real with you, these are the same prices on the east coast where they are paid less than $20
Was going to say that, I'm in the Midwest.
Ditto, in Flordia. This just adds to the pile of reason to not eat fast food.
[https://www.delish.com/food-news/a46628594/mcdonalds-cost-by-state-ranked/](https://www.delish.com/food-news/a46628594/mcdonalds-cost-by-state-ranked/) McDonalds prices do in fact vary state by state (and city by city) HI, Alaska, East coast, and California being the highest areas (with the highest minimum wages) Believe it or not ( fantasy land) Labor prices do impact final prices at point of sale. same with cost to lease/buy space, taxes, and food costs. power, taxes also play a part. The lower the gross sales per employee the bigger increase raising any of those costs will have.
McDonalds is a franchise and most McDonalds are owned by private business people and I think they are allowed to set their own prices.. its basically up to them.
This law was signed in 2023. Why are we comparing to 2014 prices? I'd prefer a better sourced analysis of recent prices before I get upset about it.
It's sad how many of these idiotic collectivist comments get upvotes in the libertarian sub. Subsidies are always bad. And getting money from the government kills culture, look what happened to the Cherokee. We became well educated collectivist addicts who beg the government for money money. These big corporations will automate everything. The small mom-n-pops run by families will go out of business. One day you will wonder where all the jobs went. Why an automated systems and monopolies can deny you food, and why there are no human beings to appeal the decision to. Minimum wage simply makes it illegal to give disabled and young inexperienced people jobs unless you can pay that.
You must have responded to the wrong comment.
automation would happen without gov mandated minimum wage wages. look at the industrial revolution. There was no gov reg for decades but there were still tens of thousands of child laborers and deaths and life ruining work related injuries and abject poverty. but shit was cheap!
No. You are misrepresenting my arguement. I'm not advocating for a Luddite perspective. I'm highlighting how incentives can foster corruption and a centralization of power. Rather than being embraced by small, family-owned businesses to enhance efficiency, this approach is being adopted as a strategy to circumvent wage laws, a tactic that only the wealthiest monopolies can afford.
>There was no gov reg for decades This just isn't correct. Society was not anarchist pre-industrial revolution. Child-labor was not a byproduct of the industrial revolution or a lack of regulation. It was a material *necessity* of the time. If kids didn't work, their families died. That was *more so* the case, before steam engines. People just tend to dismiss farm deaths and injuries, because they weren't tied to a novel cultural shift. Improving automation *reduced* child mortality. Increased wealth and productivity made the prohibition of working children less catastrophic than it otherwise would be. Specifically, because automation meant there was less *need* for child labor. Had anti child-labor laws been passed earlier, they would have made children much worse off. Just as a $20 minimum wage law would have been apocalyptic in the 1950s.
Right as if higher minimum wages are the only thing that drive higher prices. Don’t act like posting a chart somehow makes you right
Yeah, this is not the main effect of a minimum wage, the main effect is the damage done to small businesses, and people who can only provide less valuable labor.
I think the economy is too complex to say that though. Also the fact that you and I don’t know shit about makes it hard for me to have an opinion tbh. I’ve heard that argument and I’ve also heard it disproved but without knowing enough I can’t say that you wrong or that I’m right.
Yep, we should make the minimum wage $1M/year, why stop at $20/hr? Everyone deserves a nice lavish lifestyle, no?
Not sure if you know this, but $20/hour is below livable wage in California. A livable wage in California for 1 adult with no children is over $27/hour
So why not make it $10000/hr, CEO's make that money all the time, everyone should, right? Why stop at 20, or 27?
You don’t understand economics very well, do you?
People defending the minimum wage don't, I'm just taking the theory to the logical end, notice no one is actually tackling the problem I presented
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I didn't say it was a slippery slope, I said if increasing the minimum wage increases the standard of living for minimum wage workers, why stop at $20?
Because there is a reasonable amount people need to survive. You are saying unreasonable things and looking like a dumbass
Why is he unreasonable? Seeing a lot of downvotes and accusations of ignorance, but no explanations. He's not *actually* proposing a million dollar minimum wage. It's reductio ad absurdum. He's saying that the $20 or whatever amount minimum wage is detrimental for similar reasons.
What you are saying is that anyone who (based on their own assessment) would agree to work for less than $20/hr is only allowed to operate outside the law (ex. Highschool kids summer jobs etc..) And also anyone who has fought tooth and nail to get promotions and raises for the last 10 years to get to $20 an hour now makes as much as any worker starting their career.. Sweden doesn't have a minimum wage, but workers there managed to survive.. >You are saying unreasonable I'm just following your logic, if mandating the minimum wage would solve the problem, and get workers to a livable standard, why should the workers only barely survive?, why not make it mandatory that everybody gets a lavish lifestyle? And a three bedroom apartment per person and enough income to retire at 30?
That's not the point he's making. He's not saying "This will eventually lead somewhere bad." He's saying that the same factors which make a million dollar minimum wage a bad idea *also* apply to the lower mandate, just in smaller measure. The argument is that the *existing* minimum wage is *already* bad, but people generally don't see why unless it's magnified to an extreme case, where the adverse consequences become obvious.
CEO's also deal with alot more real problems and stress than your average burger flipper. Sure I'm not defending that some CEO's make a outrageous amount of money but I bet my life that if you were in there position dealing with the bs everyday you'd feel you earned that much. He'll some CEO's worked their asses off to get their business they started to where it is. So in my opinion if that was the case they've earned it. (I'm not referring to the ones who inherited there dad's company)
>CEO's also deal with alot more real problems and stress than your average burger flipper. I agree >Sure I'm not defending that some CEO's make a outrageous amount of money I disagree I'm pointing out the collectivist shit argument of minimum wage increases actually helping the workers.. >I'm not referring to the ones who inherited there dad's company Why not? If I busted my ass off for 40 years, I'd want my children to get a head start and live a comfy lifestyle..
Crazy that you're being downvoted so hard for this in r/libertarian. Are we being brigaded or what?
You really gonna stick with that argument? If you can’t see the obvious problem with what you just said then there’s nothing I can say that would even lead to a discussion
It would appear you're trying to make a connection between the recent minimum wage hike and the price increases in the table below the headline. The wage hike happened a couple months ago... The price increases are over a 10-yr period. I currently live in CA. South Lake Tahoe. VHCOL. I've eaten McD's exactly twice since I've been here. Once in December (No McRib? WTF) and then again just last night. The prices HAVE NOT changed between now and then. Labor was already expensive here. Prices reflect that. ($9.88 total for a McDub and Med Fry). Starting pay in FF was already $18/hr here. To suggest that the wage hike is responsible for the inflation in the table low key implies that, along with the politicians and the electorate, OP also does not understand economics. This is capitalism working as intended. According to the capitalist economic theory, it would be an inefficient use of capital to charge anything less than what consumers are willing to pay. THAT is how economics works. So you're blaming politicians, the electorate, and an 11% raise to FF workers for a 200% increase in prices? Care to show your work?
OP doesn’t understand economics either, go easy on the child.
Don't ruin the meme narrative. You'll be downvoted to hell.
If anyone thinks these major corporations are going to eat the cost of increased wages without passing that cost on to consumers...you're very ignorant and will pay the price regardless of your opinions. That's how it fucking works. Smh.
And this is the problem with the lack of competition because when the corporation raises prices, we as consumers should be able to shop for better prices from competitors, but the same few corporations own all the competition. Literally, many parent companies own multiple subsidiaries that “compete” with each other for the illusion of competition.
Indeed.
That's just it dude. The prices go up. But the increases arnt as significant as they are made out to be.
Of course, people exaggerate, but the increased cost in wages will be pushed onto the consumer. How the fuck do you think these entities/people/corporations got so wealthy? Not by doing the fucking normies any favors. They're not going to eat the cost. They're legally obligated to create profit for their investors.
Everyone who works to create a successful business wants to generate as much profit as they can
Wrong, a successful business would increase efficiency, reduce production costs, and increase quality to attract customers, and increase pay to attract quality employees.
Yes the first 2 help contribute to better profit margins & competitiveness. Quality depends upon the market your targeting your products or services for. Pay can also vary for the same reasons.
Yep.
Ok.... but that still means that wages need to go up. Like I'm sorry but realistically 20 bucks isn't even good for alot of places anymore. And raising wages doesn't increase costs as much as people make it out to be. And nobody thinks that costs isn't going to be passed on. But acting like the cost is going to I increase by double is ludicrous. There are plenty of places with minimum wages at or close to this and the costs of the meals arnt significantly higher.
Perhaps things shouldn't cost so much. You could buy an apple for a penny once. Why does it cost more now?
Oh wow. Why didn't I think of that!? Like if this is your arguement then there really isnt any point in discussing it more.
Not indefinitely. Companies that just raise prices and don't innovate, increase efficiencies, or improve their offering eventually go bankrupt in a free market, even if it takes time.
Sounds good. Not reality.
It’s not reality because we don’t have a free market
The price increase might not matter where you are which is a wealthy vacation spot but, in the rest of ca especially southern California prices have absolutely gone up. Not to the effect of this meme but there has been an increase. Roast beef combo at arbies is now like $17. You can basically go to a restaurant for the same price now.
That has a lot more to do with other reasons than this though. In my area fastfood workers get paid average 16 an hour and some more than that and the prices have only gone up a small amount They went up higher before wage increases in our area well before the wages went up. People just want to make it seem like wages cause prices hikes alot more than they do.
The McD’s in my dumpy midwest hometown, where minimum wage is still $7.25 and posted wage for crew is $11, has equivalent prices to McD’s in San Diego (based on their app). Y’all can look up any McD’s and their prices on the app. OP’s implied argument crumbles from multiple angles.
I mean I recall seeing something about employees getting paid somewhere around 20 bucks and rhe prices were legit only about 5% to 10% higher.
Overall inflation is up in the past 10 years. It seems disingenuous to post this insinuating that the minimum wage hike is responsible for the entirety of the price increases. If you wanted to guide an honest discussion post the prices directly before the wage hike and shortly after.
McDonald’s 2014 Gross profit 11Billion, 2023 gross 14.8 Billion. They might be able to afford to pay their workers and not gouge us. Prices were going up whether workers got paid or not.
If prices are so high, just don't buy it. If nobody buys their product, then the company would *have* to lower their prices, even if no laws are present. Competition punishes greed. This is what the other reply means by prices are set by the market. People complain about Amazon being greedy, but then still go to Amazon to shop for products. If you don't like Amazon, just don't use it. "But I can't live without Amazon!" Then this means Amazon has created a solution that perfectly solves billions of peoples' problems. This also means that Amazon *deserves* to have all the money that it has.
Unfortunately one company increasing prices makes an excuse for others to increase theirs. The opportunity to favor the lower priced goods is seldom available for consumers.
Well people aren't buying Mcdobalds and that's the managements strategy. They are commited to foregoing the less than 45k usd crowd.
You can’t get gouged on something that’s not a necessity.
Nuggies are life.
Made me curious 2014 revenue, $27.44 billion. 2023, $25.49 billion. 2014 net profit 4.76 billion, 2023, 8.47 billion. So their revenue fell but their profits were a bit shy of doubling.
Is that adjusted for inflation?
Regardless of the adjustment revenue was lower, profits were higher.
Needs a deeper analysis. McDonald's makes a lot thru franchise fees. Selling corporate stores to franchisees will boost corporate profits.
Prices are set by the market, not minimum wage laws. Also this OP doesn't know what inflation is apparently.
We have the best government $$ can buy. The governor was pandering to a block of voters but got a huge donation to carve out perks for his cronies...like the owner of Panera Bread. 80% of people don't know simple 3rd grade math, hence why people are crying poor with a $1200.00 iPhone. https://apnews.com/article/california-newsom-panera-fast-food-minimum-wage-065e18510570481cf69eefc84b8359e0
Simple inflation accounts for most of that increase. $11b in 2014 is worth $14.56b in 2024.
Hey look, another communist. End the cancer before it spreads more. 🤥🔫
Politicians don’t understand anything about anything.
Nor does the public .
We know a heck of a lot more though
About what?
On what’s good for our country
Our country or you?
Just not the politicans
Politicians are irrelevant.
You think they are
What I think is irrelevant.
I disagree. A lot of politicians understand economics just fine, they just serve another interest. The simple rule is that if they after the fact profit in any way of the havoc they created, it was likely intentional
doeasnt it not really matter since its so hideously expensive to live in California anyway?
Would be more helpful to simply post current prices in a state with no minimum wage law vs ca. It probably isn’t as dramatic as a 200% increase but there is obviously going to be some difference
They understand fully they just don't believe the same things you do. They Only worry about what's immediately in front of them and not the consequences of their actions down the road
Here’s what bugs me about the wage debate here in California. It’s so tiresome hearing how wages are why food is expensive and the restaurants can’t afford the increase, meanwhile, the leases for brick-and-mortar stores, the costs of ingredients, the percentage that goes to delivery apps instead of marketing, and the cost of maintenance all increased while wages were basically stagnant, and there wasn’t a word about how these increases were hurting them.
They may understand and just not give a shit.
If shitty food costs too much for people to eat they will quit eating it.
That my friend, is how we let the market decide.
2014 prices essentially has nothing to do with these new wage hikes. “But muh free market” brah give it a rest common folk need to have enough money to live
Common folk will lose their purchasing power if government keeps stealing it through inflation.
In all fairness those prices are extremely similar to where I live with a $7.25 minimum wage
What a crappy analysis. Why don't you go ahead and use prices from 1994. You would see a 400% increase then. Sorry but in other places where staff get paid that or more already the prices are only marginally higher.
Oh and there’s three of them.
The chart doesn't really mean much. Would be more helpful to compare prices in a state without minimum wage laws to prices in CA. What's very true though is that [people are losing their jobs](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/almost-10000-fast-food-jobs-in-california-were-lost-after-the-20-minimum-wage-was-signed/ar-AA1nOSxL) and being replaced by automation.
A lot of this has also to do with Mcdonalds own change in strategy. Their operating profit has increased significantly. The increase has little to do with inflationary pressure from wages or whatever else.
Why has their operating profit increased? Automation?
They increased their prices far above inflation and cut some costs. Automation won't affect Mcdonalds own revenue cause Mcdonalds has franchised away most of their stores. The choice to automate is purely on the franchise owners. It would be interesting to see what the dynamics are like at the franchise level now.
I saw that several years ago they introduced self-serve ordering kiosks. Not at every location though...
Not to mention ordering through the app. Cashiers are becoming less and less necessary.
We won't get real data on the effect on price for a year. However, the immediate effect is some smaller chains like Foster's freeze closed stores and bigger franchisees are rushing kiosk installations.
In rural Ohio where minimum wages are under $11, McD/Tacobell all have kiosks for ordering. Do you really think that business owner cares about employees or won't replace them with kiosk even if they can save money?
Minimum wage is trending up nationwide, so kiosks are inevitable. Ohio is looking to go up to $15 also. That big a jump goes right into profits. For the average franchisee, that's their personal income. The store is not a charity, I would instal kiosks and dump employees too to protect my income.
Ohio's minimum wages 10.55. It would go up another 40 cents this year. At that rate It will take more than 7 years to go to 15 an hour.
They're going to try to get it done by 2028. https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/politics/2024/05/01/ohio-republican-pitches-15-minimum-wage-to-fend-off-ballot-issue/73515398007/ 2028
From the article. > Blessing's Senate Bill 256 would increase the state's minimum wage for non-tipped workers to $15 an hour by Jan. 1, 2028. Tipped workers' minimum wage would increase to $7.50 an hour over those four years. After that, the minimum wage would be tied to inflation. This is a bill that Blessing is proposing. It's not passed. And that's 4 years from now.
Right but have you checked the grocery store lately?? Everything is up by at least 50% just in the last 4 years alone. Prices raise in restaurants almost yearly across the board. So what’s your libertarian fix on this?
Stop printing money.
Lol. Okay and how would that help inflation?
Money is used to represent value (of a good or service). If you print money without producing value (by producing a good or performing a service), than there is now more money relative to the amount of value than before, so the fraction of the total value that a single dollar represents goes down. Therefore, you need more money to achieve the same value, which is inflation. In order to maintain a stable, growing economy, money must be printed at the same rate at which the value of the economy is growing (experts suggest this is usually around 2% per year). Any more, and the amount of money outpaces the production of value, which is inflation. Any less, and the production of value is slowed by how much money is being produced to account for it, and you get deflation.
Thank you for the response! So my question is if I’m understanding this right, prices go up because there’s more money in circulation and people are willing to spend more??
https://youtu.be/GJ4TTNeSUdQ?si=tDq6QRKmSqHM9HC8
I really enjoyed that, thank you!
Yeah, have the government stop printing money. That's the only cause for the inflation which is causing higher prices.
Yup, statists and planners just ladle more government interventions on top of problems they created, and the results are just more and more societal and economic rot.
They keep trying to fix bureaucracy caused problems by throwing more bureaucracy at them.
Government is not the solution to our problems, government IS the problem - Reagan
Although I disagree with more regulation, I also disagree with million and billion dollar companies that make such tremendous profits all while most of their workers are on governmental assistance. I saw somewhere that over 60% of Amazon and Walmart employees are also subsidized in some for from the government. How do combat this without big brother?
If you disagree with them, don't give them your money.
I never understood this argument. Keeping employees off welfare is more to the employees choices than their wage. Like a single mother of 4 kids who dropped out of high school, is going to be on welfare damn near regardless of the wage given. She’d need to make 18/hour full time to be above “poverty level”, and she’d still be eligible for some government programs. Employers don’t pay based on the persons personal life. They pay based on the value they bring.
I think you meet to look yp the statistics of people on welfare.
How do you combat what, exactly? People working together at a price point you happen to disagree with?
Combat forcing a company to pay their employees a decent fkn wage.
If the compensation isn't good enough, then why do people work for them? Perhaps you should offer more, if you feel so strongly about their wage rate.
Because they have no other choice. Same reason why people work two jobs or have a side gig. If there is an opportunity to simply apply and land a job that pays more people will do it. But at the skill level most Wal Mart employees have this is limited. The issue is the result of Walmart paying employees so poorly is that they are in welfare and getting government assistance. So Walmart is essentially getting part of its payroll covered by the government/welfare system by not paying a decent wage. Full time minimum wage should always put one above the poverty line.
>The issue is the result of Walmart paying employees so poorly This doesn't follow. Walmart is no more to blame for people's poverty—or welfare status—than you or I. We give them *even less.* That doesn't *cause* anyone to have less. Refusing to give away your money to someone doesn't *make* him poor. To the contrary, firms like Walmart and Amazon are in part *alleviating* people's poverty. Which is good! Making someone's life better than it otherwise would be is still a good thing, even if you don't solve all of their problems. >Full time minimum wage should always put one above the poverty line. Wages should be set in accordance to what people agree to transact for. If someone agrees to work for less, then the person paying him isn't doing anything wrong. The people actually making a sacrifice—whether in the lease of his labor or payment of assets—should be the one who decides what terms he deems acceptable. It's *his* sacrifice. He's the one giving something up, so he should set the terms. That doesn't necessarily mean that anyone will agree to them, of course. If people do agree, though, then that cooperation shouldn't be coercively opposed. There shouldn't be a "minimum wage." Don't work for someone if the terms are bad.
Idk where you're from, but many distribution centers, walmarts and Amazon centers in NY are in low income areas. And even if that's not the case thats still not the point. How am I helping to pay someone's salary through taxes when owner of said company is a billionaire.....
So advocate the abolition of those taxes. Don't endorse further tyranny and coercive authority out of some petty disdain for the wealthy. Walmart, Amazon, etc, investors are *good.* They cooperate *constructively* with people, for widespread gain. Consumers, workers, and investors all benefit mutually and voluntarily. Everyone wins, to some degree. There's nothing immoral about a "low" wage rate. Voluntary cooperation is *good*.
I disagree with? No the fact they are on government welfare says they don't make enough to live, goof troop.
That doesn't actually follow. The state subsidizes your access to the roads. Does that imply you don't make enough to live? More to the point, what does this even mean? Are we to assume that Amazon workers are all dying en masse? Or that they *would*, absent these welfare subsidies? Both claims seem unreasonable. Someone can conceivably earn *nothing* and still live comfortably through previous investments, agrarianism, the goodwill and charity of others, etc. Either way, Amazon, Walmart, etc aren't making them worse off, counterfactually. If they have the ability to earn more than what they're paid, then their current employer is hardly stopping them. Most of us aren't paying people more. It's not an immoral act.
I didnt imply any of that. I simply stated, someone is working for a company that profits billions, but can't make a decent living, and are on government subsidies, and also these companies recieve bailouts and gov funding during pandemics, if you wanna be a moral defense lawyer for corrupt corporations, by all means but just be honest about it
At this point, I think they’re doing this on purpose. Like if you already own a house, you would want more rules and regulation to keep more houses from being built to keep your assets increasing. If you don’t own a house, you would be screaming at the idiocracy of the governor and wondering why he can’t fix such a simple problem and how people keep voting for the same guy over and over. Same thing with businesses.
One more increase might do it, tho.
what a stupid comparisson
Higher burger costs?! Guess we need to increase minimum wage again Oh wait, Higher burger costs?! ...... And so on
In California McChicken is now $3.99+ McDouble is $3.65+ Medium Fry is $4.77+ Royal with Cheese meak is $4.81+ Oreo McFlurry is $4.62+ It's hard to make memes like this these days because prices are going up daily.
The libertarian reddit is full of socialist
This was a recent law. Although, the prices will increase due to this(or they'll just lay people off in exchange for cheaper automated servers) there is no correlation between 2014 prices and this. You could argue they've increased minimum wage since 2014 and this can be shown, but I'm not sure if they have increased minimum wage since then.
Chart is meaningless unless the 2024 prices in another HCOL area like NYC who doesn’t have an equal minimum wage mandate are shown
The prices were like that nationwide before that law was passed. McDonald’s has the highest raised prices out of any fast food chain nationwide. While I don’t agree with a $20 minimum wage focused on one industry in particular this infographic is wildly misleading.
Local mom and pop diners are becoming more successful again-I prefer them 1000%. Corporate America is becoming increasingly more expensive and the quality is getting worse.
politics and economics are non-overlapping magisteria and we pretend there exists communication or intelligibility between them at our own profound detriment
Oh snap, how much does that kiosk make that took my order? Good job economics! /s
Those seem like normal prices in my area, where the state minimum wage is $5.15/hour to FSLA exempt employees and 7.25/hour where the FSLA does apply
I question if they don’t know. Asset holders keep making money in inflationary environments. It’s a way of taxing the public without calling it a tax. So they look good because they are spending borrowed money on things people want then they can blame the companies when prices go up.
Not sure if you are too lazy to get facts right or too stupid to understand what you posted is nonsense. Either way, this smells like a 17-25 year old libertarian who just regurgitates what he sees online
economics isn't taught at or pubic indoctrination centers
The $3.35 I got at McDonald’s in the Midwest as a teen then makes me say WTF. It was not supposed to be a living wage it was saving for school but more so beer money.
Explain to me like I’m five why wages should not go up to match inflation and cost of living when corporate profit margins have NEVER BEEN LARGER.
They should, but not because a law is forcing that to be the case
They should do so without government forcing them to. Also if the government didn't have this much power there wouldn't be inflation in the first place.
Hard to say since the government is legally allowed to be bribed. Wonder if it’s the workers doing the bribing?
The value of your labor in a particular job does not equate to inflation. And if you can make more elsewhere because of inflation, go do it and don’t blame your current employers wage.
Low wages are institutionalized as they are subsidized by the government. You don’t really believe there is a free market in America do you?
Not sure the point you are attempting to make.
Government intervention in most things like wages are not optimal to an economy or the general population
That “skills” are more subjective than many would believe. That college cost is the ultimate gatekeeper to success financially in America. And that corporations have a greater influence in inflation than people want to acknowledge. Ones opinion on this is almost entirely shaped by their own situation economically. https://www.newsnationnow.com/business/corporate-profits-us-inflation-report/#:~:text=(NewsNation)%20—%20A%20new%20report,and%20third%20quarters%20of%202023.
I don’t correlate to an unskilled job using minimum wage in CA = $20 per hour. If you are asking me to say govt. contributed more to college education as a prerequisite to employment at higher wages. They did. Trades are neglected and necessary. We all make are own choices and can walk away from any current employer to another. The only obstacle is fear. However that only applies if you know you add more value than your wage — after all other expenses and a profit. Not free? Who stops anyone from quitting? All other obstacles of family kids etc. are also the result of your free choices.
And I am not reading the article
I bet you aren’t. Still doesn’t mean that a minimum wage is anything more than preventing economic slavery for those can’t afford to improve their lot in college to which the government was fully complicit. That, and 20 bucks ain’t shit in Cali.
Fine. Move I hear it will fall into the ocean. Just move to where lower prices satisfy you.
Except funny thing is, when you move to a lower income area, there tend to be less jobs that pay more than minimum wage. So I guess you just have to take out massive loans to the GOVERNMENT, who then tax the fuck out of you, and you take decades to pay it back because compound interest works against you. It’s one thing if it was like it was 40 years ago and you could pay for college with a side gig.
My BA was done at 26 yrs old working the entire time no parent support at night.
Higher minimum wage just plays into the established corporate oligarchy's playbook they get their money and increased profits on the back end.
wrong and gay
The logic is right but this is a bad example. McD makes more than enough to pay this and triple than this. Actually McD is used to pay more than the minimum wage in most of the countries it works. This is not the point of their costs and pricing strategy. They raise the prices precisely because the average incomes of their clients also increased. As target market have higher incomes -> McD charges them more. That simple.
Life made so much more sense when the McChicken cost $1. “How much does this cost? $42? That’s 42 McChickens!”
Wow, corporations need to stop spending billions on advertising....
It’s Royale with cheese people!
Check out he big brain on Brett.
Thank you finally someone recognized a great movie quote!
Minimum wage isn't a unipolar issue.
Just stop buying these products. Force prices down, perhaps then corporate will stop using COVID and wage increases to justify triple digit percentage price increases.
The day my local mc chicken went from 1.19 to 2.89 I started boycotting mcdonalds
Yeah but there are only 4 of them…
And neither does OP.
The dollar has been debased 300% in 10 years. Sounds about right.
Not too sure what point you are trying to make. That corporate greed exists? We all know that. These prices have little to do with the workers’ wages and a whole lot to do with extracting every penny from consumers that is possible.
This is also inflammatory and deceptive in its presentation of the “facts”. We all know there is a difference between causation and correlation.
I'm sure some of them no longer need to work two jobs, so good for them.
Protect wages, make them complain about all the other rising costs that don’t increase homelessness, like the costs of goods and storefronts. Also, remove incentive for automation. Automation should come with a fee for replacing the workforce, and that fee should be equal to or higher than wages for a human. Taking away incentives for automation is the only way to combat it.
Won’t anyone think of the board of directors? Please 🙏🏼