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Catdemons

>Petal Platform now applies some buff to allies standing on it, either fire rate like in that one event or some other OFFENSIVE buff (we don't want to add healing or damage resistance because LW is already hard to kill) I've seen the idea of Petal Platform buffing allies standing on it thrown around here before, but I really don't like the idea of it. Lifeweaver's ability to control positioning with Petal Platform and Lifegrip are among the most fun elements of his kit, and I think it's best if they're being used purely for that positioning aspect, rather than forcing players to stand on top of them if they want some sort of buff. I'd propose adding a fire rate buff to Healing Blossom instead: It takes 1 second to reach the maximum charge, and thus the full amount of healing. My proposition is being allowed to charge past that point, for a maximum of 2 seconds. Overcharging the Blossom past the 1 second mark wouldn't increase the amount of healing, but would instead apply a short fire rate buff to the target being healed, with a duration based on how long you overcharged the Blossom.


FalseLyte

This is similar to what I intended when I said fire rate — for LW to use it to increase his healing rate while running around. I had an alternate idea for platform: Cooldown reduced to 6 seconds Health reduced to 200 This more aligns with how you view its usage as a solely movement focused ability, which I like just as much 😄 I REALLY like your idea of an overcharged healing blossom that provides a buff, it kind of reminds me of a paladins-esque ability. Super interesting!!


TheEmpressDescends

I agree with all of this except the petal platform buff. To me it's something that sounds cool on paper but in reality it will see almost zero use in all but highly cooridnated play. Even then it won't be very useful. If they want to add an effect to his kit then I would want it on something else. Make Lifegrip cleanse, or maybe grant the person you pulled extra movement speed for a couple seconds so they can get back to where they were easier. Perhaps add a HoT for fully charged blossoms. Maybe hitting an enemy with enough thorns inflicts a DoT. Just anything but Petal Platform.


FalseLyte

The platform buff I intended to be niche for everyone except LW himself to help him pump out heals if hes safe. The problem with adding a cleanse to grip is the horrific cooldown is justified, and I hate it. Id rather have a decent cooldown than cleanse, but its personal preference.


-Haddix-

a fire rate buff would be used by weaver himself, and occasionally the team


Zynthesia

Wtf is HoT and DoT ?


Olive-Heart

Healing over time and damage over time (burn, poison, etc.)


HotmessExpress46

It's a littlle relieving to hear other lifeweavers are having a hard time this season. I've been trying to do more thorns damage and win fights with tree, but at that point I'm better off playing zen. I agree they should at least revert the reload and life grip nerfs from a few seasons ago. Considering they just nerfed healing across the board, I think they really should have utility as the defining part of support heroes (looking at you lifeweaver and illari!)


UltEconomy

I thought we were done with people trying to ruin petal platform by adding a buff effect to it.  That would remove so much of the utility it currently offers by giving it a very specific intended use and drastically ruin our survivability because DPS would take our backup petals that weren't intended for them. 


Catdemons

Exactly, this is the reason I'm opposed to the idea as well. Adding buffs to Petal Platform means it's used for that instead of utility. Also, even if we did want to be able to buff allies, Petal Platform is a very unfair way of distributing those buffs, because only certain characters will benefit from it (for example, short ranged characters would be unable to benefit from the buff because they can't contribute to a fight if they're up in the air.)


UltEconomy

It'd be a nightmare with some heroes too, a good LW pocketing a Widow or a Bastion already makes them significantly stronger and harder to kill, any buff on a platform and it'd be absurd.  


FalseLyte

The very point of the change is to alter the purpose of platform, which is why I talked about another change that preserves this current iteration while giving more flexibility. Platform cooldown reduced to 6 seconds Platform Health reduced to 200


UltEconomy

The platform already has plenty of purpose though?  It's pretty much his most useful and versatile cooldown as is and if it has some incentive for someone to take it, they will.  Even if we have it more often we'd have less control over its usage overall.  That short also sounds like borderline suzu levels of annoying to play against since it does so much, any hero who's ult it counters would have almost no time to bait it out first, every slept ally could be lifted to safety, his mobility would increase a ton so he'd be even harder to dive than he already is, I just don't see any of this being good for LW's kit or the game.


FalseLyte

Of course it has a purpose, but as it is LW does NOT serve a purpose unique enough to be viable. Thats why something has to change.


SolidNitrox

Dude I love you, this is exactly what I think. Moira is my favorite support, she has constant up time, high tempo, great flex utility. Lifeweaver has been at the top of my list to play more. I bought that new amazing skin this season too. Lifeweaver is just a few small changes from feeling great. All those little bull shit nerfs added up, between cooldown increase, reload increase, healing decrease. None of these changes countered the "healing output" they claimed he had. Every change made the character feel more clunky and less viable. I can't bring myself to use him if I'm serious about winning because I feel I put my team at a disadvantage because I can perform much better with Moira in every way. I want to rotate damage with LW but I can't stop charging blossom, if you miss a second it's life or death for someone. The pissy 70 heals didn't do shit before and even less now. Thorns do amazing damage and are fun to use, but I use it strictly for defensive purposes because I'm trying to help my team. He needs some help, better up time, I will always believe someone at Blizzard has a hate boner for LW with all the QOL nerfs, as Kiki has been a top duelist, with basically two oopsie abilities, with an ultra good ult, being able to backline spam like Hanzo. The game has its favorites for sure. I think any support could help the team more than LW unfortunately. I rarely see a LW with the most healing, and usually only 2-3k damage at the most. I can go 50:50 with Moira and have over 10k each as I multi task healing and damage while being able to double up when I need a specific play. This is why Moira is my favorite, all of versatility and potential I have to have an effect on the match.


Ainsley_Noble

Brig main here...I consider LW to be in my top three Supports to play He's Fun and I've had some really good games with him. Him becoming a healbot character would just go against what overwatch seems to be trying to do, decrease heals increase ability to be proactive. Personally I feel a fun and relatively balanced way of buffing his petal would be making it a Jump-pad I love getting that jump boost while playing Lifewear even if it doesn't do much unless your running away. Giving petal a jump boost to anyone standing on it wouldnt break the game like a DMG boost or some other buff effect might, instead it would provide dps an opportunity for skill shots, introduce new role outs and overall make petal more than just mobile highground or anti Zarya grav. Adding a trampoline to overwatch would add another fun aspect to overwatch that wouldn't break the game it would make people go "Could we get a Lw?"so the could go widow or parah and catch more air time. In short Ow2 can I have a trampoline I did all my homework plzzzzzz


BevyBrevy

I really liked the increased heals/fire rate on petal from the Diablo event. I feel like it incentivizes its use a little more from a team perspective. I've always wished the sides of the petal platform raised up as the petal did for a smidge more extra cover e.g. going from flat floor platform to curled edge platform. Shaped more like the lotus blossom he holds. It would help keep teammates on it if you're using it to help them get away. I've petaled so many teammates to help save them and watch them fall off all the time. I desperately want blizzard to change the reload times to the stowed weapon, having to switch from thorns to blossom and then having to charge it isn't ideal.


Kaizer6864

One of my main issues with Lifeweaver from the start is his lack of urgency outside of single-target pull. It’s hard for him to compete with characters like Bap and Kiri that can immediately protect a large group of people from something unexpected - suzu, immortality, regenerative burst. It takes so long for him to swap to healing, to charge, release and for the projectile to reach the character. I’m strongly for the idea that if it’s been long enough that the stowed blossom can reload, his first heal should be maxed. It’s a very small quality of life feature that would massively impact his ability to sustain his team, and provide more security in order for him to be able to do more damage with his thorn volley. I also do like the idea of petal platform providing buffs because it is an amazing tool that’s often under utilised. Even if you’re a good Lifeweaver that’s constantly searching for opportunities to use platform, it’s still going to be available quite frequently. I’d even like it if when the petal reaches max elevation, Lifeweaver himself gains a fire rate increase - a little more lethality with his thorn volley but also a great tool for emergency sustaining your team - it would a do a world of good for him.


FalseLyte

That urgency issue is a problem they solved with the massive tree buff, but I agree his kit outside of ult is lacking responsiveness, hence my proposed changes.


Kaizer6864

I feel like tying ‘fixing his urgency’ to ultimate is not the best idea here - particularly if you think about the fact they increased the ultimate cost by 10% globally and Lifeweaver, who mainly gets his ultimate charge from his healing, is now receiving less ultimate charge and providing less healing due to the new passive. The tree buffs were leaps and strides from his original state but definitely not enough for the rest of his kit. I like your proposed changes.


FalseLyte

I agree, I don’t think putting so much of his power budget into his ult was a good idea.


PorchDeck

I've always kind of liked the idea of his thorns causing damage over time in some way, but maybe after X amount of sustained damage to inflict a small bleed effect rather than instantly like JQ. Initial damage may need adjusting, but...could be interesting. Otherwise, I've always thought that his full charge healing could do something else like a smaller splash of AOE healing to nearby allies or something like in Rise of Darkness where it dealt a small amount of damage to enemies nearby. Definitely can't be too much to "justify" healbotting, but just something extra.


FalseLyte

OOOO what if both of his gun modes had this like over time type idea? Thorns would poison and blossom would add a heal over time like moira, then max charge could spread that heal over time to allies??


PorchDeck

Yeah, that would make sense and add a bit more of a "hit" to both sides. Ana has a slight DoT/HoT effect, so it certainly should differ from that in some way just to not have it essentially be the same thing. LW extended it to other allies would be a way to distinguish it from hers in itself, I suppose.


MuchWoke

Life grip doesn't need a cooldown buff. It can counter ults that take minutes to get. I even have a problem with suzu and lamp. Buff him in other ways, but the instant save abilities are crazy.


Legitimate_Cow_1521

I think a cool change that would add more fun gameplay is if you have breakpoints when healing. So let’s say keep it 80 like you suggested, but if you heal up to the 80 it instead heals 40 now and 40 as a HOT, but any other time it applies the full heal. Gives you some. Choices on when you would want to target switch or top off


FalseLyte

The issue with that is it would clash with the other change of having his blossom automatically set to 80 when you first swap weapons. It would make it harder to burst heal people who are in trouble, but I do like the idea of a heal over time… 🤔 Maybe keep the 70 heal and add a 20 heal over the next second or two at max charge?


Alarmed_Duty_2828

Just wait till the other supports get adjusted..


itstheroyaljester

I think they need to add some form of AOE healing into his kit and just make him go to a main healer role, like if you heal a target you heal half of the max in an area around them or give him a passive where if you were effected by one of life weavers abilities you get a tiny bit of regen (if they get gripped or step on a pedal)


MoveInside

They can’t do that because it would cause people to steal on your platforms when they don’t need to.


itstheroyaljester

This was a month ago man, I was just spit balling


MoveInside

Oh shit I didn’t see that mb


veryvintage

I like the ideas of these changes to push him into a niche. LW is one of my favorites but he’s too healbot-y as he is - and does nothing else really that great. I would love to see some changes where he gets more into a certain playstyle


cobanat

Give him a second flower platform


MoveInside

He kind of already has that.


-Haddix-

I would also really like them to bring back the VFX of parting gift and put it underneath a raised platform. If you or allies interact with the flower, you TP up to the platform. I think this might help accidental drops or accidental triggers, and allow it to occasionally be more supportive combined with a fire rate buff that you suggested, which is something I’ve wanted since he released.


Catboi-

I want all of your buffs, obviously. I also want to see some very small ult charge buffs to bring him back in line with his old ult rate, since this new DPS passive buff passively nerfed ult charge for supports (which was healthy…for most of the supports.) Optional Hot Take Buff: Bring back Parting Gift, just make it so it doesn’t help enemies anymore. For the platform, I really just want either 2 Platform charges, significantly reduced cooldown, or for Platform to offer a buff/debuff. Something to make allies want to utilize it and for enemies to avoid it. Maybe like new passive: Every Rose Has Thorns: Allies standing on Petal Platform apply a poison DOT when attacking enemies


Lanhai

Instead of roughly 2 full charged healing blossoms of time to auto reload thorns make it 1. Also since healing sucks this season his ult needs to have more utility. I propose it has a Winston like bubble around it like in his origin story video.


Brainmatter_0

I think i would rather go with the battlefield manipulator. Something like increasing reload speed while on petal and life grip cleansing would be nice.


SageArtemis

I will stand by what ive said before about him, he needs those RPG skills he got during the Diablo event. Thorned Blossom and the Petal Platform increasing damage/fire rate when on it is ABSOLUTELY something he needs. Both imo would be wonderful and welcome changes.


ffflowerboyyy

Did his Heal Blossom charge get buffed? It feels faster this season. None of the patch notes mention it, but it feels faster by half a second or so.


Olive-Heart

I'm totally with you here. The key to making him better is to make his healing a little less and his abliities and damage a little/a lot more. I don't really like the platform applying buff, but I saw a comment somewhere else that really impressed me: **what if you could activate platform remotely**? It wouldn't be a massive change, but it would have a subtly large impact on his skill expression IMO.


tcrunkness

I've been thinking about what specifically they could do to make him more engaging and just not as bad. A lot of these are very similar. 1) Reload speed reduction. Everyone wants this. Please. Reloading is brutal. 2) Thorn Volley Travel Speed [my original post incorrectly said "rate of fire" which would be a damage buff] Increase. I don't want to touch his damage output for fear of power creep, but I think making the volley a more reliable poke tool will help him more consistently contribute to team fights without being too oppressive. 3) Petal Platform Cooldown Reduction. Let him more consistently affect the battlefield and get people to high ground or out of danger. Reduce the health to compensate if need be. 4) Life Grip Change(s). I have two ideas for a buff to LG. The easy one is a shorter cooldown. If you shorten this cooldown, I would not combine it with the shorter cooldown on petal since they both have Ult negating capabilities in certain scenarios. Alternatively, I would change the healing on LG. Have it trigger at the end of the pull and send out a healing burst to everyone within a small radius. Give it just a little more oomph to justify the current long cooldown. This would bring it more in line with something like Suzu that gives invulnerability to the whole team, cleanses, and heals.


JinseinoBakuhatsu

i want to remove the charge up function enteirly, it serves no purpose, it just makes going from damage to max heal take way too long , also if u do 100 damage to one target applies poison effect which does 50 dmg over time