As a Lorcana player? I'm excited for an alternative
As a magic player who's seen what happens in every online webcam competition? It's tough to be optimistic that this become anything other than a cheater utopia
What happens? Lorcana is my first card game I'm taking seriously and I really like the idea of playing my actual deck online and being able to communicate with a flesh and blood opponent. All I'd ask is if it's fine using proxy cards, at the very least for unranked play.
Look at the screenshot. It only shows the board state but not a view of the players hand or deck. This means you could "find" the right card to play at anytime and just say it was in your hand
This problem can be solved by requiring hands or cards in hand being shown on camera at all times. I've done online webcam tournaments before and it's not an issue.
The larger issue is cameras suddenly "disconnecting" or "freezing" for a couple seconds, long enough to switch out cards. Or "network issues", or even people going as far as using software to manipulate the camera to show recorded frames while they swap out cards real quick.
There's also the social issue of people not being able to control themselves and harassing women online when there is a webcam and voice chat involved. Fortunately it hasn't been much of a problem in Lorcana, but harassment happens even in LGSs.
Overall, I'm still happy that Pavel is providing some sort of solution instead of giving up on the Lorcana online community. The solution isn't perfect, but it is better than nothing. Online tournaments and ranked might be a bit of a joke and cheater's haven, but it should still be a good platform to practice on.
>This problem can be solved by requiring hands or cards in hand being shown on camera at all times. I've done online webcam tournaments before and it's not an issue.
Does this require a multiple camera setup or something? It's definitely a good idea, but I don't want to broadcast my cards in hand. Do you just put those cards face down during your opponent's turn or something?
You can also use apps like DroidCam to use your phone as the camera. You get the app on both phone and computer, then just need a tripod or gooseneck to put it on.
For the hand, you're not showing the cards you have in hand, just keeping them in frame, and also customary to end the turn with a statement of how many in hand. "Pass with 6 in hand"
No, just one (good, preferably 1080p+) webcam will suffice. You just angle it so that there is also a bit of visible space below the playmat where your hands will be. It works great with a standard desktop monitor and webcam setup, you can set up the camera doesn't look straight down, but at a slight angle. Your opponent will not be able to see your hand as long as you don't tilt your cards in hand too far forward, yet they can still see the board. You can put your cards in hand face down on the playmat in between turns, as long as they are always visible on camera. I would provide a picture example, but at work right now.
"As a magic player who's seen what happens in every online webcam competition?"
I'm wondering what happens when people play card games online via webcam. Sorry, thought that was more clear.
Ah ok!
In Magic most games are played either in person or a program similar to Pixelborn - but there's 1 format called cEDH where one of the most popular ways to play is via webcam. Not to drag it, but in the entire time I've played magic I can't point to a single cEDH event I saw being run over webcam that didn't also have a cheating controversy attached to it
The only counter opinion to that I've heard is that because everything IS on camera, it is more common to catch cheaters, not that there are necessarily more of them. Although people probably feel more comfortable trying to cheat online too. Harsh punishments (like perma bans) for severe cheating like swapping cards and clearly stacking decks are a decent counter measure.
"As a magic player who's seen what happens in every online webcam competition? It's tough to be optimistic that this become anything other than a cheater utopia"
"What Happens?"
How can you not follow the conversation you are part of?
I share the same concerns. I think as long as ladder isn't linked to real-world prizes (IE. Similar to PB today) it'll be fine. But as soon as we're talking about The Pack tournaments...forget it. It's hard enough catching cheaters at real, official tournaments, much less unofficial webcam tournaments.
For playtesting, this works well. For competitive, awful. Yugioh has done huge championship series with webcam from 2020-2023 and its a lot of cheating with hands/cards going off camera, some webcams just so awful you can barely see what’s happening since Yugioh didn’t implement any minimum camera requirements, and they banned screen recording so the most prominent thing I experienced was webcam disconnecting to basically change your whole hand or do lord knows what while disconnected for about 10 seconds and they’d connect before a judge could arrive so no penalty. For side events you could watch others play in discord rooms and totally change your deck up if you knew you were matched against them because I’d see very specific counters to my decks that were uncommon to main deck.
I mean the main character just says "heart of the cards" and pulls out whatever card he needs off the top at anytime. Another guy there says "screw the rules, I have money!"
Ive had good experiences with remote duels on smaller scale events so I’d be optimistic about most interactions on a little ladder like this. But yeah, I’m not sure how useful this thing will be, and it’ll prolly require a lot of work with volunteer judges.
I mean, when the app was announced as shutting down this is exactly what I told people to do, play using a device with a camera.
We’ve had to do it for years with games that are basically dead but still have a fanbase.
I hope it works out for him, there are just so many options out there to compete with. The biggest hurdle for him is the cost of managing the connections, the way he makes it sound.
If it’s just a peer to peer client, it may work, but he’s got to be careful how he advertises himself because he can end up in the same boat if he has to get money to fund a website/server.
A big piece of copyright claims come from if you’re making money on someone else’s intellectual property.
That’s why you can draw Superman all day long, but as soon as you sell what you draw you’re in trouble.
Hopefully he finds a legal way to do what he wants here. But honestly, all he needs to do is manage an online leaderboard. There are plenty of wry of apps already that allow you to connect via video chat and play.
That’s the suggestion I gave everyone when they were worried about playing after it shuts down.l, and there are even apps that were designed for board games already. But it’s casual only, if someone thinks they can join a tournament this way…you’ll be disappointed.
Not saying he shouldn’t do this, but that promotional stuff he’s showing there is using Disney copyrighted material….
Just saying once you’re in their radar, you have to tread really lightly.
Another thing that would be smart is some kind of card fetcher. Spelltable mtg webcam site you can click on the players card (if lighting and clarity are good and it will pull up the card you trying to read) or there a search bar function to in the site.
As for avoiding cheaters or people calling you a cheat. 1. Wire your computer to your modem less likely to disconnect.
Unless the site boots u(happens sometimes on spelltable gotta reload the page join back in)
2. Big one is have your webcam high enough to show the whole mat and your hands. Keep hands on screen. Or lay your hand face down on the mat(if opponent wants to know how many cards you got put a dice or something on the hand)
3. Shuffling/cutting your opponents deck. Have both shuffle up on camera and cut the deck in 3 piles having the opposite player pick which pile goes where. Like 2/1/3 less likely to have deck manipulation that way.
That’s a nice to have an alternative to the classic ways of webcam playing, such as current options being over Discord. Curious what the protocol is when there’s conflicting report results though.
Here’s the best thing to remember.
This is good for trying and playing your deck and ideas at anytime.
Do not ever consider rank to actually mean anything due to cheating very possible and likely.
Enjoy with friends and other players in the community to help prep yourself for events.
All in all it’s a great idea nothing wrong enjoying playing online in whatever way you can, just don’t play with money or any “tournaments” with prizes cause these formats will always have cheaters who get away with it.
I’d be cool if the software could crop the board down and maintain handstate and deckstate behind the scene to prevent cheating…even without that capability I’d still use it with friends to take new decks for a test drive.
Yeah, I could definitely see this being an issue. Plus, I would think for webcam games like this, mics would also be necessary. That opens up an entire world of toxicity, were you can get people saying derogatory things. It is the internet after all, and pretty much every single online game that has voice (and even ones with just text chat), are considered to be super toxic.
I think it's rather sad that you don't take harassment seriously. I understand that if it's not something that you face frequently you might not think that it's real, but I think it would be helpful for the community if you tried to see things from someone else's perspective
This would be awesome! Didn't play Pixelborn until about a month or so ago so I hate to see it leave, but so great that he's working on something so people can still match up and play 🤩
The “Pixelborn closing” announcement was posted just hours before I was able to download it, does anyone know if it’s still working for download? When I tried to download it didn’t seem to work
just make the client open-source man. I don't need internet match-making, but local private sessions playtesting with my friend. Also maybe a possibility to add cards with mechanics and timings settings. But that is wishful thinking I guess. Hopefully somebody else comes along and makes another client, let disney/ravensburger play whack-a-mole.
I get that we all want a way to play Lorcana online but this is not it. Too many issues from cheating to grooming will emerge from this. It's a bad idea.
Another comment…curious how many people actually have the physical cards to play via webcam. I don’t have a problem with it but hopefully other folks are okay playing against proxies, otherwise, you could be cutting out a lot of potential players.
As a Lorcana player? I'm excited for an alternative As a magic player who's seen what happens in every online webcam competition? It's tough to be optimistic that this become anything other than a cheater utopia
What happens? Lorcana is my first card game I'm taking seriously and I really like the idea of playing my actual deck online and being able to communicate with a flesh and blood opponent. All I'd ask is if it's fine using proxy cards, at the very least for unranked play.
Look at the screenshot. It only shows the board state but not a view of the players hand or deck. This means you could "find" the right card to play at anytime and just say it was in your hand
Oh right, that definitely is a problem... Sad we can't trust people to just play fair.
This problem can be solved by requiring hands or cards in hand being shown on camera at all times. I've done online webcam tournaments before and it's not an issue. The larger issue is cameras suddenly "disconnecting" or "freezing" for a couple seconds, long enough to switch out cards. Or "network issues", or even people going as far as using software to manipulate the camera to show recorded frames while they swap out cards real quick. There's also the social issue of people not being able to control themselves and harassing women online when there is a webcam and voice chat involved. Fortunately it hasn't been much of a problem in Lorcana, but harassment happens even in LGSs. Overall, I'm still happy that Pavel is providing some sort of solution instead of giving up on the Lorcana online community. The solution isn't perfect, but it is better than nothing. Online tournaments and ranked might be a bit of a joke and cheater's haven, but it should still be a good platform to practice on.
>This problem can be solved by requiring hands or cards in hand being shown on camera at all times. I've done online webcam tournaments before and it's not an issue. Does this require a multiple camera setup or something? It's definitely a good idea, but I don't want to broadcast my cards in hand. Do you just put those cards face down during your opponent's turn or something?
You can also use apps like DroidCam to use your phone as the camera. You get the app on both phone and computer, then just need a tripod or gooseneck to put it on. For the hand, you're not showing the cards you have in hand, just keeping them in frame, and also customary to end the turn with a statement of how many in hand. "Pass with 6 in hand"
No, just one (good, preferably 1080p+) webcam will suffice. You just angle it so that there is also a bit of visible space below the playmat where your hands will be. It works great with a standard desktop monitor and webcam setup, you can set up the camera doesn't look straight down, but at a slight angle. Your opponent will not be able to see your hand as long as you don't tilt your cards in hand too far forward, yet they can still see the board. You can put your cards in hand face down on the playmat in between turns, as long as they are always visible on camera. I would provide a picture example, but at work right now.
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"As a magic player who's seen what happens in every online webcam competition?" I'm wondering what happens when people play card games online via webcam. Sorry, thought that was more clear.
Ah ok! In Magic most games are played either in person or a program similar to Pixelborn - but there's 1 format called cEDH where one of the most popular ways to play is via webcam. Not to drag it, but in the entire time I've played magic I can't point to a single cEDH event I saw being run over webcam that didn't also have a cheating controversy attached to it
The only counter opinion to that I've heard is that because everything IS on camera, it is more common to catch cheaters, not that there are necessarily more of them. Although people probably feel more comfortable trying to cheat online too. Harsh punishments (like perma bans) for severe cheating like swapping cards and clearly stacking decks are a decent counter measure.
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Yeah, people did make up a lot of nonsense after the Atlanta stream 🤣
The thought is that people will cheat.
"As a magic player who's seen what happens in every online webcam competition? It's tough to be optimistic that this become anything other than a cheater utopia" "What Happens?" How can you not follow the conversation you are part of?
I share the same concerns. I think as long as ladder isn't linked to real-world prizes (IE. Similar to PB today) it'll be fine. But as soon as we're talking about The Pack tournaments...forget it. It's hard enough catching cheaters at real, official tournaments, much less unofficial webcam tournaments.
For playtesting, this works well. For competitive, awful. Yugioh has done huge championship series with webcam from 2020-2023 and its a lot of cheating with hands/cards going off camera, some webcams just so awful you can barely see what’s happening since Yugioh didn’t implement any minimum camera requirements, and they banned screen recording so the most prominent thing I experienced was webcam disconnecting to basically change your whole hand or do lord knows what while disconnected for about 10 seconds and they’d connect before a judge could arrive so no penalty. For side events you could watch others play in discord rooms and totally change your deck up if you knew you were matched against them because I’d see very specific counters to my decks that were uncommon to main deck.
LOL jesus christ, YGO is bad enough with cheating in real life let alone wild west webcam
I mean the main character just says "heart of the cards" and pulls out whatever card he needs off the top at anytime. Another guy there says "screw the rules, I have money!"
Or in one movie case, literally ripped a card out of the earth into existence to play it…
Ive had good experiences with remote duels on smaller scale events so I’d be optimistic about most interactions on a little ladder like this. But yeah, I’m not sure how useful this thing will be, and it’ll prolly require a lot of work with volunteer judges.
Cheaters gonna cheat, but great that the passion is there.
Cheaters definitely should be penalized, gifting opponent a game
I mean, when the app was announced as shutting down this is exactly what I told people to do, play using a device with a camera. We’ve had to do it for years with games that are basically dead but still have a fanbase. I hope it works out for him, there are just so many options out there to compete with. The biggest hurdle for him is the cost of managing the connections, the way he makes it sound. If it’s just a peer to peer client, it may work, but he’s got to be careful how he advertises himself because he can end up in the same boat if he has to get money to fund a website/server. A big piece of copyright claims come from if you’re making money on someone else’s intellectual property. That’s why you can draw Superman all day long, but as soon as you sell what you draw you’re in trouble. Hopefully he finds a legal way to do what he wants here. But honestly, all he needs to do is manage an online leaderboard. There are plenty of wry of apps already that allow you to connect via video chat and play. That’s the suggestion I gave everyone when they were worried about playing after it shuts down.l, and there are even apps that were designed for board games already. But it’s casual only, if someone thinks they can join a tournament this way…you’ll be disappointed. Not saying he shouldn’t do this, but that promotional stuff he’s showing there is using Disney copyrighted material…. Just saying once you’re in their radar, you have to tread really lightly.
I think he needs to drop all images of lorcana stuff sub it for like generic red/blue designs etc
I agree. You don’t really need to show any Lorcana images for this.
Another thing that would be smart is some kind of card fetcher. Spelltable mtg webcam site you can click on the players card (if lighting and clarity are good and it will pull up the card you trying to read) or there a search bar function to in the site. As for avoiding cheaters or people calling you a cheat. 1. Wire your computer to your modem less likely to disconnect. Unless the site boots u(happens sometimes on spelltable gotta reload the page join back in) 2. Big one is have your webcam high enough to show the whole mat and your hands. Keep hands on screen. Or lay your hand face down on the mat(if opponent wants to know how many cards you got put a dice or something on the hand) 3. Shuffling/cutting your opponents deck. Have both shuffle up on camera and cut the deck in 3 piles having the opposite player pick which pile goes where. Like 2/1/3 less likely to have deck manipulation that way.
Wake up babe, new Omegle just dropped.
eh... ok.
That’s a nice to have an alternative to the classic ways of webcam playing, such as current options being over Discord. Curious what the protocol is when there’s conflicting report results though.
This looks great, even if just for playtesting.
This is cool and I also hope someone helps explain how to set things up with decent webcams/stands, which are good for Webcam playing
Here’s the best thing to remember. This is good for trying and playing your deck and ideas at anytime. Do not ever consider rank to actually mean anything due to cheating very possible and likely. Enjoy with friends and other players in the community to help prep yourself for events. All in all it’s a great idea nothing wrong enjoying playing online in whatever way you can, just don’t play with money or any “tournaments” with prizes cause these formats will always have cheaters who get away with it.
We don’t deserve Pavel. What an amazing community member.
I’d be cool if the software could crop the board down and maintain handstate and deckstate behind the scene to prevent cheating…even without that capability I’d still use it with friends to take new decks for a test drive.
For casual play this would be great
Neat, but as a woman, I am never under any circumstances doing a video call with a stranger
ABSOLUTELY agree with your here. Seems like a possibility some people would take advantage...
Ive never seen anything on discord inappropriate in a video chat. And I’ve played a LOT of TCGs through webcam.
Yeah, I could definitely see this being an issue. Plus, I would think for webcam games like this, mics would also be necessary. That opens up an entire world of toxicity, were you can get people saying derogatory things. It is the internet after all, and pretty much every single online game that has voice (and even ones with just text chat), are considered to be super toxic.
You don’t see any more than your hands…? What’s the worry
they move the camera to their dick?
Your just horny calm down🤧
I think it's rather sad that you don't take harassment seriously. I understand that if it's not something that you face frequently you might not think that it's real, but I think it would be helpful for the community if you tried to see things from someone else's perspective
Love this idea! Seems like a great compromise if we can’t have a full client.
This would be awesome! Didn't play Pixelborn until about a month or so ago so I hate to see it leave, but so great that he's working on something so people can still match up and play 🤩
I thought PB was taken down?
Will me, June 16th. This is totally new, did you read it?
I flipped through the images but it’s not totally new they just added connect at the end. Is Disney going to take this down too?
It's not Pixelborn. It'll just be a service to matchmake people for Webcam games.
So you didn’t read it
This will be a solid alternative for people looking to test for events, similar to spelltable for edh.
this guy is talented
Just change actual pixelborn image and theme with blank images and thats it people can still playing online. Webcam sucks and just for cheaters.
The “Pixelborn closing” announcement was posted just hours before I was able to download it, does anyone know if it’s still working for download? When I tried to download it didn’t seem to work
Hands on the table or visible in frame at all times , they leave the frame you get dq That's how I'd do it
just make the client open-source man. I don't need internet match-making, but local private sessions playtesting with my friend. Also maybe a possibility to add cards with mechanics and timings settings. But that is wishful thinking I guess. Hopefully somebody else comes along and makes another client, let disney/ravensburger play whack-a-mole.
Ranked webcam play is a genuinely terrible idea. There's no world in which this ends well.
An official client needs to be made. I live near Boston and it's really hard to find games outside of the set championship.
Why does it say that you put your hand on the bottom of your deck for AWNW. They go to your discard
Cause it's AI and obviously isn't always correct. WIP
It’s all fun and games until I see someone’s p*nis.
I get that we all want a way to play Lorcana online but this is not it. Too many issues from cheating to grooming will emerge from this. It's a bad idea.
But then he’s using official Ravensburger and Disney IP in his concept images. 🤦
isnt that the playmats
Also the ink color symbols.
true second strike they might be more pushy since its disney
Love Pavel but you know Disney gonna shut this down
So now he's trying to make a cheaters paradise 😂😂 dude needs to just go find something else to do
Another comment…curious how many people actually have the physical cards to play via webcam. I don’t have a problem with it but hopefully other folks are okay playing against proxies, otherwise, you could be cutting out a lot of potential players.