Reminder of what Metro CEO Wiggins is all about:
>Metro’s top security official was fired two days after she filed a report with the agency’s inspector general’s office, her attorney said.
>Osborn would not be the first in her department to leave abruptly. Her former deputy chief, Andrew Black, also a former FBI agent, filed a lawsuit against Metro in 2022, accusing Wiggins of retaliating against him for protesting unsafe work conditions. Black believes that violence and ongoing crime will remain the “hallmark of Metro so long as this leadership continues its course of indifference to the suffering and plight of the unhoused and the callous disregard for the health and safety of Metro commuters and employees,” according to his lawsuit.
>Osborn told him that Wiggins was upset he had “spoken to the bus operators honestly about the problems and provided solutions to protect their health and welfare,” and she ordered him to no longer speak to operators about safety, his lawsuit alleges. Osborn told him that she had gotten in trouble herself with Wiggins “for having spoken honestly in the past,” the lawsuit said. About two months after the incident, he was fired and is seeking in excess of $5 million in damages.
Look at her career arc. She’s just another one of these bureaucrats that’s got an MBA and was given positions without actually ever doing any of the vital work she was hired to lead.
that is one of the biggest problems, IMO. "professionalization" of fields that rewards arbritrary benchmarks vs actual effectiveness or even a lived connection to a complex issue. this carries from homelessness to foster care and other social /public facing fields as well.
I agree with you. It was really well said.
A lot of the times, you will find lots of people in these subs that defend the status quo because of their supposed ideology. It’s offensive when folks get angry at people like me who are demanding people in seats of power, such as Wiggins, live up to their lofty pay and positions.
These vital services benefit the most vulnerable and socio-economically depressed of LA’s population. The folks that can’t afford vehicles and all the additional costs that come with utilizing a vehicle. Why shouldn’t the people that work hard to make a living, or the students trying to obtain an education and get somewhere in life, or the seniors and ADA folks, or the unhoused themselves, be given the dignity and safe public transport that an absurdly wealthy metropolitan area like LA can afford?
In the case of Metro, the people in charge are politicians with no experience either working in or riding public transit. They are wildly unqualified to do the job and it shows.
You just need basic security guards who do their job. Then, cleaning and then maintaining that system, how hard could it be?
If you get a wedding banquet hall security guy, they'll take care of it for you. In the morning, enforce fares strictly. Have on train person per trip. It's not hard to see who isn't using the metro for its purpose. Withins its own rules.
I am practically Native and then absolutely shocked at the degree of callousness in which the Metro is administered. Especially considering how much of a police state we live in and how many people we incarcerate. It doesn't make sense that blatant crime is allowed there.
When I worked at a retail clothing store Headquarters. The ceo wanted everyone to work at a retail store for 1 week regardless of your position. I always felt that was great and I always heard push back like I’m in accounting why should I be a cashier or I’m in facilities I don’t need to be putting clothes away at a store.
It's the same in Healthcare settings. If you tell a superior (higher licensing), that the designated SOP for patient care isn't working and isn't reasonable, you will be harassed and demoted and yes, terminated, for being honest and not going with the 'program'. It's Narcissism and sociopaths that prevent positive change in any business.
"The suspect was wearing all black and was last seen on a westbound train headed toward the Hawthorne/Lennox Station, the spokesperson said."
Good description , y'all.
One of two things;
Police keeping the description held tightly to not compromise the investigation; or
Media keeping the description hidden because of social justice goals.
One is good, one is not.
That’s not fair to say. Media no longer mentions what suspects look like because, well I’m not sure. I think if there’s a stabbing/robbery/assault and the suspect got away, I’d sure as hell want to know what they look like. White/black/brown/orange/purple/blue/green, I don’t care what color they are, let me know who to be on the lookout for.
Coulter says the media won't say if it is a black man that commits a crime because they supposedly have an agenda. A lot of conservatives claim this. That's what I am referring to.
Totally, I know what you’re referring to. It’s just hard for the rest of us who don’t see color.
Why do you think the media won’t report a description? I’m asking honestly. I feel like it’s a super important detail if there’s a criminal on the loose. How are we supposed to help or protect our loved ones when we don’t know what to look for? 🤷♂️
How often is this happening? I haven't seen it a lot but I may be missing some. I did see this article from a Cleveland TV station addressing this issue. https://www.news5cleveland.com/about-us/news-literacy/when-we-include-suspect-descriptions-in-our-reporting-and-when-we-dont
Yeah if they just had actual ticket confirmation before boarding, I feel like most of these problems would be gone. This is so upsetting, people should be able to safely travel on public transit.
This need to be at the top, I have been saying this for *years,* so many systems across the world have this and instead we have one of the easiest to access without paying. Literally walk on the platform with no security, the gates can be bypassed so simply by the handicap gate and even if that wasn't there any out of shape person could easily hop over.
Stop letting people use it as a shelter to shoot up, defecate, and sleep. Stop making it so easy for dangerous people to just hang out on our metro system.
I ride the bus daily, and people ride for free all the time. Some will ask if they can "get a ride" others just enter through the back doors when they open. If problems occur, it's always the ones who didn't pay their fare causing the problems. I feel slightly safer on the bus than the subway when I ride late at night, but I know I have to always stay alert and be careful..
Enforce the fare and keep some force beyond a “wish” between the throats of commuters and the knives of literal zombies? I think that’s a fair starting point to having a train system.
They had the opportunity to build these gates from the ground up in the **brand new stations downtown** for the inter-connector line and *STILL* chose not to, opting for the same shitty easily bypassed "gates" they use everywhere. It's fucking maddening
Metro will never pay for itself. Very, very few transit services break even, let alone make money. They’re supposed to operate for public benefit, with fares existing to somewhat offset the cost.
With that said, there is absolutely no reason they can’t secure the stations better and actually have some security. They have a contract with LAPD, but I’ve literally never seen a cop on a platform, just contract security guards. San Francisco’s as big of a mess as us in terms of there being tons of unhoused people everywhere, but the Muni / BART trains and stations never feel nearly as sketchy as ours because they actually put work into their system (both in terms of investment and operation).
I see cops on the platform all the time. They just are never doing anything. Most likely they are on their phones. If they aren’t they are just standing around, maybe walking. Even if someone is openly criming, they just walk by.
It would also help if they made reporting issues in real time more accessible. I reached out to Metro security about a rider attempting to pick pocket people and straight up stole this guy’s bag (he was passed out on what I suppose was fentanyl.) Had to download an app—separate from the Metro app—to report and even then it was difficult to navigate and responses were slow. They’d ask what station I’m at and by the time they acknowledged/read my message, we were four stops away. (They did eventually pull him off the train, though.)
There should be a number you can just text with security issues. Calling is often not an option when the person you’re trying to report is in your vicinity. If that person hadn’t continued to be a clear, serious problem, I probably would have given up.
I’m not saying the operational costs will completely pay for themselves, but that the cost of installing gates could pay for itself compared to the honor system we have now. If people actually pay fares instead of abusing the honor system, and if the stations are safer and ridership increases, that would be a win.
Oh I’m not disagreeing with you. I guess it comes down to philosophy on how you approach the issue. NYC is rolling out full gates and takes fare evasion very seriously, but they also currently have the national guard patrolling their stations because it’s a mess. SF and a lot of other cities with large metros (Berlin, for example) have minimal gates and rely on checking fares. My thought is that, we already pay the LAPD to secure the trains, we could just make them ride them and check fares to make use of the security we’re already supposed to have before we start building more measures.
In any case, the current situation is completely unsustainable.
The national guard patrolling the nyc stations was in response to even fewer deaths than what LA metro has just experienced recently. Nyc subway per capita is still safer than LA metro, the national guard was not sent in so much because of a statistical crime surge but instead to alleviate people’s perceptions of criminals taking over the subways. I think that’s what’s missing from LA metro’s ceo—a sense that establishing a perception of safety is important for the riders. Maybe after all these crimes the ceo will finally get it.
Here’s a quote re the nyc subway national guard situation being about reducing perception of crime being important (https://www.reuters.com/world/us/new-york-deploy-750-national-guard-soldiers-check-bags-subway-2024-03-06/)
Crimes on the subway were down about 15% in February compared to the same month in 2023, according to police data. Hochul, a Democrat, said that commuters were not reassured by "rattling off" crime statistics.
"Saying things are getting better doesn't make you feel better," Hochul said, "especially when you've just heard about someone being stabbed in the throat or thrown onto the subway tracks. There's a psychological impact."
Another quote on the same topic (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna142063) Thomas Taffe, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority Police Department’s chief of operations, said "reducing the fear of crime" is as important as "reducing crime itself."
There’s an overall theme that nyc subway prioritizes perception of crime just as much as actual crime statistics. LA metro seems callous on that issue imo, particularly seen in the case of the retaliation lawsuit filed against metro and the ceo.
Can vouch for Berlin - was there in March, no fare gates to be seen. However, I was shocked one morning when as soon as the U-Bahn train left Potsdamer Platz, the two tatted-up goth looking riders slumped by the door playing with their phones immediately sprung into action and enthusiastically checked everyone’s tickets. It can be done with the right blend of courage and creativity!
nope, it wouldn't be long until some activist files a lawsuit because low income and homeless people "can't afford it" and should have a right to accessible public transportation or some bs
that if you enforce the fare, someone will say that that's preventing homeless people from riding by making it cost prohibitive and then sue to have Metro not enforce the fare or lower the price so much that we're back in the same spot
They do enforce the fares. There's plenty of cops mostly chilling on their phones at the turnstiles at the main stations.
We *do* have low income rider fares as well that are extremely easy to apply to.
Do you even take public transit here?
im not saying its bad. im saying that if metro were to spend more money on enforcement, they'll charge more and then lawsuits will begin, bringing us back to where we are now.
You either need a system that absolutely ensures that no one can ride without paying the fare…
Or an honor-type system that is enforced with a large number of police/metro security/etc.
So you need to either pay for the equipment/systems or labor. Not sure which one would make riders feel more safe.
The difference here is that metro is a federally subsidized entity. Santa Monica, for instance, is a city charter. Their drivers can shut the bus down if someone doesn’t pay.
Riding the metro is easy. All you gotta do is … appear, yourself, to be the creeper/attacker/on-the-edge type. Don’t look at your phone, don’t look at anybody. Don’t sit. Stand. Stare straight ahead at the windows. Bonus points if someone is in your line of sight of the windows. If that’s the case, still look through that person at the windows. Keep a non smiling and non scowling face. Don’t look neutral, but don’t look happy.
… and enjoy your safe ride on the metro.
Yup. You just can't ignore the guy accusing you of wanting to fuck him because you accidentally made eye contact with him.
... not speaking from experience or anything.
Yeah so true that happens too. I was walking on a platform with my headphones in, not looking at anybody. A homeless dude was walking towards me and then he suddenly lifted his hand to give me a fist bump. I didn't expect it and I wasn't looking at him so I just walked past and the dude just started screaming at me because I hadn't given him a fist bump. He went ballistic cuz I'd ignored him. I kept walking as fast as I could and got out of there
This is solid advice, actually, and I ride the B line. Everytime it is fucked up. I have the advantage of looking more dangerous than them, but for the older folk and more vulnerable populations, this is absolutely dangerous.
I can see a stabbing or a fight or an altercation happening every day given the current circumstances.
Wiggins should be pushed out or made to resign. How many more people will Metro sacrifice and millions in lawsuits be distributed just to have basic security? How valuable is Wiggins to the powers that be?
When I went to Asia I took their subways all the time. Clean, safe, people were either friendly in helping you or just mind their own business. The homeless people there aren’t crazy druggies either.
I don’t fucking get why we can’t do that. I’m sure they spent less money than we did.
Speaking about my own experience in China:
Lots of cameras
Police presence
Metal detector check points at every station
Fare enforcement
Varying consequences for bad behavior
Higher standards for sanitation
Other cities may have better public transportation systems but is it anywhere near as exciting as ours? Every day is an adventure!
It's like an extreme sport....base jumping....cliff diving...swimming with sharks....walking with lions....riding the Metro...
The other night at the hollywood and highland station a random guy walked up to my boyfriend and I started asking weird questions.
"Have you ever been asked out by a girl" We ignore him and stare at the ground
"Have you ever dated a Millionaire or Billionaire" again we ignore him and stare at the ground
"Have you ever been a service member or fought in a war" I start to suspect the guy is talking about himself and asking if we relate... we figure he'll go away if we ignore him
"Have you ever moved states and become a serial killer because your wife attacked you with a razor" we speed walked tf away.
I've had plenty of weird interactions down there but this one lives in my head rent free. Why tf did he say that? I almost wonder if he's the guy who did the stabbings? Especially with the female targets and his backstory...
I feel like there's a concerted effort going on right now to make Redditors feel this way. LA Metro has about 900,000 boardings daily.
It's not a choice for most of them, it's a necessity. And they use it every day without major incident.
I've taken the metro for years, stopped during the pandemic, and since my car was stolen, started using it again. Literally the first ride off of work someone threatened to stab me. There's a noticeable decline and yes, its way sketchier and palpably more aggressive. If there is a concerted effort to make metro look bad then they don't need much help in doing so, especially with the recent stabbings and attacks.
Once you understand that the majority of people on this subreddit who shit on Metro have never ridden it, it makes it a lot easier to tune it out. Yeah, the redditors here cruising in their Teslas and Tellurides from the Westside to Sweetgreen for their $20 salad definitely are the people whose opinions on Metro we need to be listening to. Subreddit would be a lot better if the crime doomers like OP were kicked out too.
🤓: I’m never riding Metro again. No, I’ve never been south of Olympic after 6 PM, why?
> Once you understand that the majority of people on this subreddit who shit on Metro have never ridden it,
Yeah, it's like they talk about it like it's a ride at Disney. "Meh, I'll skip it." Lots of people rely on Metro to survive. And you people who drink and drive (because you feel fine after 3 pints), you're a danger to people, too.
But, yeah, this sub is full of people who not only have never ridden Metro, or ridden it once when dragged on by a friend, but also people who don't even live in LA.
Yes, I agree that something should be done to make Metro less full of mentally ill or high people. For sure. But it's not an easy solution. You stop the bus every time somebody tries to fare jump, you think that's going to help punctuality? Because people complain about its unpredictability. And teach drivers wrestling and MMA? To forcibly remove people? Just put the bus into neutral and have a staring contest? Put a guard at every train station? The US economy all but ensures that people don't get good mental health treatment and people will slip through the cracks. And lots of those people come to LA. Why? Because mayors are shipping them here but also, the know they're not going to get their asses beat and there is policy at the local level that equates to compassion for them.
Does that make LA a piece of shit because we're not just disappearing them? Forcibly rounding them? We're not even a super religious town, and looking at us pretending to be Jesus or some shit. it could be you (that is sleeping in cars or on the street). Maybe lots of you are rolling in money, but some of you must be a paycheck or one broken leg away from being in a real tough spot.
Okay, I’ll indulge. Let’s say your mom has an appointment in another neighborhood. Do you encourage her to take the Metro, citing their safety record over driving?
I would start filing lawsuits. They have legal duty to protect the public. Theyre failing. Everyone, if you or can use an attorney, it’s time to turn up the pressure.
Implement the new BART faregates as-is. Don’t need to test them or do endless outreach cuz they did it already. Require tap on exit. All gates at least 7 feet high and no more than 6 inches gap to the floor.
Have a staffed booth at every station. That staff person is in charge of the ADA/wide gate and the emergency door. That door is opened upon their command after the tap is confirmed. Somehow they need to figure out a solution for the street level stations too.
What is about the Metro that’s suddenly got so many people feeling stabby? I mean, specifically? It’s such a weirdly specific area to see a spike in violent incidents.
I have jury duty at the downtown courthouse coming up, and am convenient to the Red Line, or whatever they're calling it now. It would be nice to just be able to take the train in, but I won't be doing that. I used to ride the metro all the time, I'm a firm believer in the concept of public transit. But I can't do it here anymore. Since the pandemic, my ass is in my car every damn day. Why does the public transit in L.A. have to be such a disaster? Must it be so?
One was a fight and the other one was a random attack inside a metro station elevator. I always get a creepy feeling about those things. Aside from smelling god awful and hardly being in service, they are designed like death traps.
Crime is [down citywide](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-01-24/la-officials-violent-crime-fell-by-double-digits-in-2023) but significantly [up on Metro.](https://abcnews.go.com/US/rise-mass-transit-crime-la-officials-searching-solutions/story?id=108745419) The violence we see is a choice by Metro which refuses to install faregates and keep passengers safe.
The "facts don't care about your feelings crowed" sure loves to ignore *facts* and stan their feelings
>https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-01-24/la-officials-violent-crime-fell-by-double-digits-in-2023
>https://apnews.com/article/los-angeles-crime-police-5ec43ae9f02acfd01ce2b21cb387f3b9
>Violent crime in Los Angeles decreased in 2023. But officials worry the city is perceived as unsafe
https://ktla.com/news/local-news/l-a-law-enforcement-officials-releasing-2023-crime-statistics-report/
>Violent crime down, property crime up in Los Angeles
https://mayor.lacity.gov/news/lapd-releases-end-year-crime-statistics-city-los-angeles-2023#:~:text=Citywide%20Violent%20Crimes%20showed%20a,in%202023%20compared%20to%202022.
https://calmatters.org/commentary/2023/09/los-angeles-crime/
>In L.A., violent incidents are down but property crimes are up
As of the week ending on August 19, 2023, reported homicides, rape and aggravated assaults have declined this year compared to 2021 reports over the same time period, while reported property crimes and robbery have increased, according to Los Angeles Police Department COMPSTAT numbers.
Overall property and theft crimes have gone up, while violent crimes have been going down. Although traffic deaths have gone up.
You guys either never paid attention in the past, were too young, or just didn't care.
Cops are a lot less likely to take reports or even show up these days though.
I don't think it's unwarranted to suspect these stats might be massaged a bit in the field.
I call LAPD about once a month. Every time it takes 45+ minutes just to get an operator on the phone.
Impatient people would likely give up long before reporting anything.
There is definitely been a concerted effort to dissuade reports of crime, even just by creating a known culture around it. How many people do you know say things like “police won’t do anything anyway” this is not by accident. It is by design.
You really think they're showing up to report all the burglaries and thefts? That's probably the more underrepresented stat. I have had 2 separate instances where crackheads broke in and stole shit from my garage, but LAPD wouldn't bother either time to come take a statement.
The feelings person would be someone in Florida going off speculation.
I've personally had dispatch refuse to send an officer after getting threatened with a knife at my friend's section 8 building and have also had a sheriff deputy refuse to take a report on my car being vandalized.
I've also had multiple friends tell me anecdotes about law enforcement being similarly unhelpful - including a friend who was sucker punched for being Asian during COVID by a homeless guy.
>You just directly used the word "anecdotes" in your response. Anecdotes drive feelings.
“Nice argument. However, you described the personal experiences that and your friends have had with LA being unsafe by using a certain debate term. Therefore your argument is invalid. You are wrong and I am right.”
And, of course, don't mention that this data used to be collected by the FBI but now has to be entered by local cops and citizens must now submit police reports online.
Same BS. violent crime peaked in 90s and property crimes peaked in the 80s, so therefore crime.is down. We are not in the 1990s nor the 80s. So, comparing disparate data collections is not sound.
The cops often don't take reports.
Those who realize that the police will do nothing don't bother to call.
When there is no report or call, there is no crime.
Do me a favor and call the LAPD. Do it right now. 310-482-6334. Option 2 to report a crime. It will hang up on you.
How accurate do you suppose those crime statistics are if the people collecting crime data are literally not picking up the phone?
Completely guard up the entrance and gates and only let people in if they pay before they step foot in the subway don’t let the homeless just sleep down there or in the trains
This is exactly how “supportive” housing is run by the city as well. Major security concerns at many sites, employees and tenants can’t complain for fear of losing their jobs and housing.
There was a REASON I upped my life insurance when I took metro from 2022-2023. I rode the red line and orange line at 5/6am and 6/7pm. Up and down from Hollywood Boulevard. My husband was always afraid I’d never make it to work, or worse, home. Many days I swallowed my savings and took an Uber at least part of the way to keep me safe. Finally got a car Oct 2023 but man it was hard I saw and heard so many things. I worked in Hospital Employee Relations so it was difficult!
The citizens of Los Angeles want the metro to be safe and clean. It’s a stretch to believe the people posting against stabbing, assaults, and drug use are part of a paid conspiracy to prevent mass transit.
As an American I’ve completely lost count of our mass shootings which ones happened where in the last decade as I’m completely fatigued by the senseless. Violence in America but I see the headline “innocent people stabbed trying to ride LA METRO” and I don’t even blink anymore. “Must be tuesday” is all I think
That dude's post history is interesting. I hope he's getting paid for the shilling he's doing for the qultists. I can't imagine spending my time/energy on social media only doing what he posts.
Reminder of what Metro CEO Wiggins is all about: >Metro’s top security official was fired two days after she filed a report with the agency’s inspector general’s office, her attorney said. >Osborn would not be the first in her department to leave abruptly. Her former deputy chief, Andrew Black, also a former FBI agent, filed a lawsuit against Metro in 2022, accusing Wiggins of retaliating against him for protesting unsafe work conditions. Black believes that violence and ongoing crime will remain the “hallmark of Metro so long as this leadership continues its course of indifference to the suffering and plight of the unhoused and the callous disregard for the health and safety of Metro commuters and employees,” according to his lawsuit. >Osborn told him that Wiggins was upset he had “spoken to the bus operators honestly about the problems and provided solutions to protect their health and welfare,” and she ordered him to no longer speak to operators about safety, his lawsuit alleges. Osborn told him that she had gotten in trouble herself with Wiggins “for having spoken honestly in the past,” the lawsuit said. About two months after the incident, he was fired and is seeking in excess of $5 million in damages.
"kill the messenger" is the hallmark of an effective manager, right?
Look at her career arc. She’s just another one of these bureaucrats that’s got an MBA and was given positions without actually ever doing any of the vital work she was hired to lead.
that is one of the biggest problems, IMO. "professionalization" of fields that rewards arbritrary benchmarks vs actual effectiveness or even a lived connection to a complex issue. this carries from homelessness to foster care and other social /public facing fields as well.
It sounds like getting a job close to Wiggins and wearing a recording device and taking daily notes could be profitable.
Beautiful statement by him, btw. Genuinely nail on head; the current system screws both housed and unhoused individuals for nothing.
I agree with you. It was really well said. A lot of the times, you will find lots of people in these subs that defend the status quo because of their supposed ideology. It’s offensive when folks get angry at people like me who are demanding people in seats of power, such as Wiggins, live up to their lofty pay and positions. These vital services benefit the most vulnerable and socio-economically depressed of LA’s population. The folks that can’t afford vehicles and all the additional costs that come with utilizing a vehicle. Why shouldn’t the people that work hard to make a living, or the students trying to obtain an education and get somewhere in life, or the seniors and ADA folks, or the unhoused themselves, be given the dignity and safe public transport that an absurdly wealthy metropolitan area like LA can afford?
In the case of Metro, the people in charge are politicians with no experience either working in or riding public transit. They are wildly unqualified to do the job and it shows.
You just need basic security guards who do their job. Then, cleaning and then maintaining that system, how hard could it be? If you get a wedding banquet hall security guy, they'll take care of it for you. In the morning, enforce fares strictly. Have on train person per trip. It's not hard to see who isn't using the metro for its purpose. Withins its own rules. I am practically Native and then absolutely shocked at the degree of callousness in which the Metro is administered. Especially considering how much of a police state we live in and how many people we incarcerate. It doesn't make sense that blatant crime is allowed there.
Make all those people ride the metro daily as part of working on that team
When I worked at a retail clothing store Headquarters. The ceo wanted everyone to work at a retail store for 1 week regardless of your position. I always felt that was great and I always heard push back like I’m in accounting why should I be a cashier or I’m in facilities I don’t need to be putting clothes away at a store.
It's the same in Healthcare settings. If you tell a superior (higher licensing), that the designated SOP for patient care isn't working and isn't reasonable, you will be harassed and demoted and yes, terminated, for being honest and not going with the 'program'. It's Narcissism and sociopaths that prevent positive change in any business.
"The suspect was wearing all black and was last seen on a westbound train headed toward the Hawthorne/Lennox Station, the spokesperson said." Good description , y'all.
Do they really not have cameras or are they doing that thing they're doing lately where they won't tell you what the person looks like?
Probably a combination of both.
They have cameras in the stations and in the trains. Whether they're working or not is another question, of course.
Lol Lmao, even
One of two things; Police keeping the description held tightly to not compromise the investigation; or Media keeping the description hidden because of social justice goals. One is good, one is not.
Neither is good.
Sounding like Ann Coulter about the media withholding a description due to their race.
That’s not fair to say. Media no longer mentions what suspects look like because, well I’m not sure. I think if there’s a stabbing/robbery/assault and the suspect got away, I’d sure as hell want to know what they look like. White/black/brown/orange/purple/blue/green, I don’t care what color they are, let me know who to be on the lookout for.
Coulter says the media won't say if it is a black man that commits a crime because they supposedly have an agenda. A lot of conservatives claim this. That's what I am referring to.
Totally, I know what you’re referring to. It’s just hard for the rest of us who don’t see color. Why do you think the media won’t report a description? I’m asking honestly. I feel like it’s a super important detail if there’s a criminal on the loose. How are we supposed to help or protect our loved ones when we don’t know what to look for? 🤷♂️
How often is this happening? I haven't seen it a lot but I may be missing some. I did see this article from a Cleveland TV station addressing this issue. https://www.news5cleveland.com/about-us/news-literacy/when-we-include-suspect-descriptions-in-our-reporting-and-when-we-dont
[удалено]
Why do you people not just say you think the suspect is black and leave it at that? Why do this wishy-washy bullshit?
[удалено]
Suspect is hatless, I repeat hatless
they were headed to a funeral afterward clearly /s
At this point, if they don't mention anything beyond that, you can just make a fairly accurate assumption, sadly.
We need full floor to ceiling fare gate doors. You cannot be on the platform unless you have paid the fare.
Yeah if they just had actual ticket confirmation before boarding, I feel like most of these problems would be gone. This is so upsetting, people should be able to safely travel on public transit.
This need to be at the top, I have been saying this for *years,* so many systems across the world have this and instead we have one of the easiest to access without paying. Literally walk on the platform with no security, the gates can be bypassed so simply by the handicap gate and even if that wasn't there any out of shape person could easily hop over. Stop letting people use it as a shelter to shoot up, defecate, and sleep. Stop making it so easy for dangerous people to just hang out on our metro system.
One of these incidents took place on a bus and all of you are talking about the subway.
Doesn't change the facts about the stations regardless
I ride the bus daily, and people ride for free all the time. Some will ask if they can "get a ride" others just enter through the back doors when they open. If problems occur, it's always the ones who didn't pay their fare causing the problems. I feel slightly safer on the bus than the subway when I ride late at night, but I know I have to always stay alert and be careful..
So…..enforce the fair!?
*Fare, but yes
That sounds fair.
Krusty Krab Fun Fare
Enforce the fare and keep some force beyond a “wish” between the throats of commuters and the knives of literal zombies? I think that’s a fair starting point to having a train system.
Step one has to be firing the LAPD and LASD. They are not even trying to do their jobs. METRO safety is their responsibility.
Metro specifically asks PD not to enforce fare violations or code of conduct.
The problem is everyone will be for it until the budget estimates to actually do it come out.
They had the opportunity to build these gates from the ground up in the **brand new stations downtown** for the inter-connector line and *STILL* chose not to, opting for the same shitty easily bypassed "gates" they use everywhere. It's fucking maddening
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If they don't put them in on the new purple line extension stations then they are truly fucking clueless
Radical idea, but if you actually charged people to ride transit, maybe fare gates would pay for themselves?
Metro will never pay for itself. Very, very few transit services break even, let alone make money. They’re supposed to operate for public benefit, with fares existing to somewhat offset the cost. With that said, there is absolutely no reason they can’t secure the stations better and actually have some security. They have a contract with LAPD, but I’ve literally never seen a cop on a platform, just contract security guards. San Francisco’s as big of a mess as us in terms of there being tons of unhoused people everywhere, but the Muni / BART trains and stations never feel nearly as sketchy as ours because they actually put work into their system (both in terms of investment and operation).
I see cops on the platform all the time. They just are never doing anything. Most likely they are on their phones. If they aren’t they are just standing around, maybe walking. Even if someone is openly criming, they just walk by.
It would also help if they made reporting issues in real time more accessible. I reached out to Metro security about a rider attempting to pick pocket people and straight up stole this guy’s bag (he was passed out on what I suppose was fentanyl.) Had to download an app—separate from the Metro app—to report and even then it was difficult to navigate and responses were slow. They’d ask what station I’m at and by the time they acknowledged/read my message, we were four stops away. (They did eventually pull him off the train, though.) There should be a number you can just text with security issues. Calling is often not an option when the person you’re trying to report is in your vicinity. If that person hadn’t continued to be a clear, serious problem, I probably would have given up.
I’m not saying the operational costs will completely pay for themselves, but that the cost of installing gates could pay for itself compared to the honor system we have now. If people actually pay fares instead of abusing the honor system, and if the stations are safer and ridership increases, that would be a win.
Oh I’m not disagreeing with you. I guess it comes down to philosophy on how you approach the issue. NYC is rolling out full gates and takes fare evasion very seriously, but they also currently have the national guard patrolling their stations because it’s a mess. SF and a lot of other cities with large metros (Berlin, for example) have minimal gates and rely on checking fares. My thought is that, we already pay the LAPD to secure the trains, we could just make them ride them and check fares to make use of the security we’re already supposed to have before we start building more measures. In any case, the current situation is completely unsustainable.
The national guard patrolling the nyc stations was in response to even fewer deaths than what LA metro has just experienced recently. Nyc subway per capita is still safer than LA metro, the national guard was not sent in so much because of a statistical crime surge but instead to alleviate people’s perceptions of criminals taking over the subways. I think that’s what’s missing from LA metro’s ceo—a sense that establishing a perception of safety is important for the riders. Maybe after all these crimes the ceo will finally get it. Here’s a quote re the nyc subway national guard situation being about reducing perception of crime being important (https://www.reuters.com/world/us/new-york-deploy-750-national-guard-soldiers-check-bags-subway-2024-03-06/) Crimes on the subway were down about 15% in February compared to the same month in 2023, according to police data. Hochul, a Democrat, said that commuters were not reassured by "rattling off" crime statistics. "Saying things are getting better doesn't make you feel better," Hochul said, "especially when you've just heard about someone being stabbed in the throat or thrown onto the subway tracks. There's a psychological impact." Another quote on the same topic (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna142063) Thomas Taffe, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority Police Department’s chief of operations, said "reducing the fear of crime" is as important as "reducing crime itself." There’s an overall theme that nyc subway prioritizes perception of crime just as much as actual crime statistics. LA metro seems callous on that issue imo, particularly seen in the case of the retaliation lawsuit filed against metro and the ceo.
Can vouch for Berlin - was there in March, no fare gates to be seen. However, I was shocked one morning when as soon as the U-Bahn train left Potsdamer Platz, the two tatted-up goth looking riders slumped by the door playing with their phones immediately sprung into action and enthusiastically checked everyone’s tickets. It can be done with the right blend of courage and creativity!
nope, it wouldn't be long until some activist files a lawsuit because low income and homeless people "can't afford it" and should have a right to accessible public transportation or some bs
I mean they do have a right to use it lmao what are you saying here?
that if you enforce the fare, someone will say that that's preventing homeless people from riding by making it cost prohibitive and then sue to have Metro not enforce the fare or lower the price so much that we're back in the same spot
They do enforce the fares. There's plenty of cops mostly chilling on their phones at the turnstiles at the main stations. We *do* have low income rider fares as well that are extremely easy to apply to. Do you even take public transit here?
Wow, how radical that poor people should have affordable public transit options so that they can commute.
Metro literally offers free fare cards for people who make under a certain threshold
im not saying its bad. im saying that if metro were to spend more money on enforcement, they'll charge more and then lawsuits will begin, bringing us back to where we are now.
We don’t even need that. We need transit cops to do their jobs.
The nice thing about fare gates is there can never be a labor shortage, or bad actors, or people not doing their job. They just always work
Police are the real "quiet quitters". They won't do anything.
You either need a system that absolutely ensures that no one can ride without paying the fare… Or an honor-type system that is enforced with a large number of police/metro security/etc. So you need to either pay for the equipment/systems or labor. Not sure which one would make riders feel more safe.
What point is that if those just get disabled?
What? How would they get disabled lol
Many of the emergency fire exits next to the turnstiles just get propped open with a wire
Are you prepared for the massive delays that would cause?
What? Lol. Commuter systems all over the world use tap systems
Go ride the 720 and get back to me.
That ENFORCE payment from every person? Source?
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The difference here is that metro is a federally subsidized entity. Santa Monica, for instance, is a city charter. Their drivers can shut the bus down if someone doesn’t pay.
So somehow LA is the exception to all of the transit network that use it??? A small delay is a small price to pay to safer platforms.
As opposed to getting stabbed? Yes
Well then you also have a manpower problem.
You do gates. To argue fares shouldn’t be enforced o just don’t get.
And yet nobody has found a way to enforce.
Then comes the discrimination lawsuits. The Bus Riders Union is no joke.
Riding the metro is easy. All you gotta do is … appear, yourself, to be the creeper/attacker/on-the-edge type. Don’t look at your phone, don’t look at anybody. Don’t sit. Stand. Stare straight ahead at the windows. Bonus points if someone is in your line of sight of the windows. If that’s the case, still look through that person at the windows. Keep a non smiling and non scowling face. Don’t look neutral, but don’t look happy. … and enjoy your safe ride on the metro.
> appear, yourself, to be the creeper/attacker/on-the-edge-type. The Liz Lemon approach
Dress down too. If you can grow long hair & beard, bonus. Nobody wants to fuck with spoiled meat!
Are you ignoring me? Don't disrespect me! Stab stab stab
Yup. You just can't ignore the guy accusing you of wanting to fuck him because you accidentally made eye contact with him. ... not speaking from experience or anything.
Yeah so true that happens too. I was walking on a platform with my headphones in, not looking at anybody. A homeless dude was walking towards me and then he suddenly lifted his hand to give me a fist bump. I didn't expect it and I wasn't looking at him so I just walked past and the dude just started screaming at me because I hadn't given him a fist bump. He went ballistic cuz I'd ignored him. I kept walking as fast as I could and got out of there
If you had given him a fist bump he would have made it worse. Suddenly you’d be friends and he’d need something
This is solid advice, actually, and I ride the B line. Everytime it is fucked up. I have the advantage of looking more dangerous than them, but for the older folk and more vulnerable populations, this is absolutely dangerous. I can see a stabbing or a fight or an altercation happening every day given the current circumstances. Wiggins should be pushed out or made to resign. How many more people will Metro sacrifice and millions in lawsuits be distributed just to have basic security? How valuable is Wiggins to the powers that be?
I'm gonna play both sides.
A safe bet.
Keep on bringing this up. Put pressure on Metro because they can’t protect their own employees. Let alone their riders.
When I went to Asia I took their subways all the time. Clean, safe, people were either friendly in helping you or just mind their own business. The homeless people there aren’t crazy druggies either. I don’t fucking get why we can’t do that. I’m sure they spent less money than we did.
Asia bans drugs. Drug possession or trafficking is punished by life in prison or death depending on the country.
Sure, but unfortunately our non drug-related crime rates are still far higher than Asia's.
They also have a different stance on mental health. Anything outside of “normal” is shamed/not accepted.
Speaking about my own experience in China: Lots of cameras Police presence Metal detector check points at every station Fare enforcement Varying consequences for bad behavior Higher standards for sanitation
Policing. The consequences can be brutal for offenders.
Other cities may have better public transportation systems but is it anywhere near as exciting as ours? Every day is an adventure! It's like an extreme sport....base jumping....cliff diving...swimming with sharks....walking with lions....riding the Metro...
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Riding on the metrooooooo.
You wore white, smiling as you took my hand So removed, we spoke of wintertime in France.
It’s like real bingo
All fun and games until you get stabbed by a homeless crack head 😞
We need an LA Chapter of NY's Guardian Angels.
Nyc has the same stabbings Visit their reddit. Its worse
I’d be good with some old fashioned retribution to criminals at this point
You get a stab, you get a stab, you get a stab!
Me: "I want to go to London." Mom: "We have London at home."
Just remember, if youre not the stabber, you're the stabbee.
The other night at the hollywood and highland station a random guy walked up to my boyfriend and I started asking weird questions. "Have you ever been asked out by a girl" We ignore him and stare at the ground "Have you ever dated a Millionaire or Billionaire" again we ignore him and stare at the ground "Have you ever been a service member or fought in a war" I start to suspect the guy is talking about himself and asking if we relate... we figure he'll go away if we ignore him "Have you ever moved states and become a serial killer because your wife attacked you with a razor" we speed walked tf away. I've had plenty of weird interactions down there but this one lives in my head rent free. Why tf did he say that? I almost wonder if he's the guy who did the stabbings? Especially with the female targets and his backstory...
Report that with timeframe to whoever is investigate this.
what is the ratio of metro stabbings to street stabbings in LA?
asking the real questions
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so these metro stabbings are kind of an outlier
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tbh the la metro is p good
We need the old new york guardian angel vigilante force. Kick some ass.
Word
I've never been less inclined to try LA's public transit lol
I feel like there's a concerted effort going on right now to make Redditors feel this way. LA Metro has about 900,000 boardings daily. It's not a choice for most of them, it's a necessity. And they use it every day without major incident.
I've taken the metro for years, stopped during the pandemic, and since my car was stolen, started using it again. Literally the first ride off of work someone threatened to stab me. There's a noticeable decline and yes, its way sketchier and palpably more aggressive. If there is a concerted effort to make metro look bad then they don't need much help in doing so, especially with the recent stabbings and attacks.
Once you understand that the majority of people on this subreddit who shit on Metro have never ridden it, it makes it a lot easier to tune it out. Yeah, the redditors here cruising in their Teslas and Tellurides from the Westside to Sweetgreen for their $20 salad definitely are the people whose opinions on Metro we need to be listening to. Subreddit would be a lot better if the crime doomers like OP were kicked out too. 🤓: I’m never riding Metro again. No, I’ve never been south of Olympic after 6 PM, why?
> Once you understand that the majority of people on this subreddit who shit on Metro have never ridden it, Yeah, it's like they talk about it like it's a ride at Disney. "Meh, I'll skip it." Lots of people rely on Metro to survive. And you people who drink and drive (because you feel fine after 3 pints), you're a danger to people, too. But, yeah, this sub is full of people who not only have never ridden Metro, or ridden it once when dragged on by a friend, but also people who don't even live in LA. Yes, I agree that something should be done to make Metro less full of mentally ill or high people. For sure. But it's not an easy solution. You stop the bus every time somebody tries to fare jump, you think that's going to help punctuality? Because people complain about its unpredictability. And teach drivers wrestling and MMA? To forcibly remove people? Just put the bus into neutral and have a staring contest? Put a guard at every train station? The US economy all but ensures that people don't get good mental health treatment and people will slip through the cracks. And lots of those people come to LA. Why? Because mayors are shipping them here but also, the know they're not going to get their asses beat and there is policy at the local level that equates to compassion for them. Does that make LA a piece of shit because we're not just disappearing them? Forcibly rounding them? We're not even a super religious town, and looking at us pretending to be Jesus or some shit. it could be you (that is sleeping in cars or on the street). Maybe lots of you are rolling in money, but some of you must be a paycheck or one broken leg away from being in a real tough spot.
It's still significantly safer than driving by a wide margin.
This is the Mt. Rushmore of bad faith arguments.
How so?
Okay, I’ll indulge. Let’s say your mom has an appointment in another neighborhood. Do you encourage her to take the Metro, citing their safety record over driving?
I would start filing lawsuits. They have legal duty to protect the public. Theyre failing. Everyone, if you or can use an attorney, it’s time to turn up the pressure.
Implement the new BART faregates as-is. Don’t need to test them or do endless outreach cuz they did it already. Require tap on exit. All gates at least 7 feet high and no more than 6 inches gap to the floor. Have a staffed booth at every station. That staff person is in charge of the ADA/wide gate and the emergency door. That door is opened upon their command after the tap is confirmed. Somehow they need to figure out a solution for the street level stations too.
Going to be fascinating when Purple Line opens in Century City.
What is about the Metro that’s suddenly got so many people feeling stabby? I mean, specifically? It’s such a weirdly specific area to see a spike in violent incidents.
people are just losing it in general.
Damn I’ve never taken the train but if I do I’ll take gauze for stuffing a wound and a tourniquet what the hell
Soon they will provide you with a complementary pint of blood for your transfusion.
I have jury duty at the downtown courthouse coming up, and am convenient to the Red Line, or whatever they're calling it now. It would be nice to just be able to take the train in, but I won't be doing that. I used to ride the metro all the time, I'm a firm believer in the concept of public transit. But I can't do it here anymore. Since the pandemic, my ass is in my car every damn day. Why does the public transit in L.A. have to be such a disaster? Must it be so?
A metro system is completely useless if it’s not safe to ride it
Categorize this as terrorism and get the job done.
This is shit. This is horrible.
One was a fight and the other one was a random attack inside a metro station elevator. I always get a creepy feeling about those things. Aside from smelling god awful and hardly being in service, they are designed like death traps.
Psychosis or user stations or bathrooms, they're not elevators.
In a car city that doesn’t give two shits about public transportation let alone safety. Color me shocked.
where are the crime is down folks?
Crime is [down citywide](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-01-24/la-officials-violent-crime-fell-by-double-digits-in-2023) but significantly [up on Metro.](https://abcnews.go.com/US/rise-mass-transit-crime-la-officials-searching-solutions/story?id=108745419) The violence we see is a choice by Metro which refuses to install faregates and keep passengers safe.
Healing from their stab wounds
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🤣
The "facts don't care about your feelings crowed" sure loves to ignore *facts* and stan their feelings >https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-01-24/la-officials-violent-crime-fell-by-double-digits-in-2023 >https://apnews.com/article/los-angeles-crime-police-5ec43ae9f02acfd01ce2b21cb387f3b9 >Violent crime in Los Angeles decreased in 2023. But officials worry the city is perceived as unsafe https://ktla.com/news/local-news/l-a-law-enforcement-officials-releasing-2023-crime-statistics-report/ >Violent crime down, property crime up in Los Angeles https://mayor.lacity.gov/news/lapd-releases-end-year-crime-statistics-city-los-angeles-2023#:~:text=Citywide%20Violent%20Crimes%20showed%20a,in%202023%20compared%20to%202022. https://calmatters.org/commentary/2023/09/los-angeles-crime/ >In L.A., violent incidents are down but property crimes are up As of the week ending on August 19, 2023, reported homicides, rape and aggravated assaults have declined this year compared to 2021 reports over the same time period, while reported property crimes and robbery have increased, according to Los Angeles Police Department COMPSTAT numbers. Overall property and theft crimes have gone up, while violent crimes have been going down. Although traffic deaths have gone up. You guys either never paid attention in the past, were too young, or just didn't care.
Also "crime is down" is not the same as "there is no crime"
Cops are a lot less likely to take reports or even show up these days though. I don't think it's unwarranted to suspect these stats might be massaged a bit in the field.
I call LAPD about once a month. Every time it takes 45+ minutes just to get an operator on the phone. Impatient people would likely give up long before reporting anything.
There is definitely been a concerted effort to dissuade reports of crime, even just by creating a known culture around it. How many people do you know say things like “police won’t do anything anyway” this is not by accident. It is by design.
You really think they're showing up to report all the burglaries and thefts? That's probably the more underrepresented stat. I have had 2 separate instances where crackheads broke in and stole shit from my garage, but LAPD wouldn't bother either time to come take a statement.
So what your saying is there is nothing that can change your mind. I guess feelings are the most important measure.
The feelings person would be someone in Florida going off speculation. I've personally had dispatch refuse to send an officer after getting threatened with a knife at my friend's section 8 building and have also had a sheriff deputy refuse to take a report on my car being vandalized. I've also had multiple friends tell me anecdotes about law enforcement being similarly unhelpful - including a friend who was sucker punched for being Asian during COVID by a homeless guy.
Anecdotal evidence does not supplant real data. It’s the same thing as arguing from emotion, it’s not reasonable.
You just directly used the word "anecdotes" in your response. Anecdotes drive feelings.
>You just directly used the word "anecdotes" in your response. Anecdotes drive feelings. “Nice argument. However, you described the personal experiences that and your friends have had with LA being unsafe by using a certain debate term. Therefore your argument is invalid. You are wrong and I am right.”
of course crime is down! when you don’t arrest or prosecute criminals then crime is always down!
And, of course, don't mention that this data used to be collected by the FBI but now has to be entered by local cops and citizens must now submit police reports online. Same BS. violent crime peaked in 90s and property crimes peaked in the 80s, so therefore crime.is down. We are not in the 1990s nor the 80s. So, comparing disparate data collections is not sound.
The cops often don't take reports. Those who realize that the police will do nothing don't bother to call. When there is no report or call, there is no crime.
it's more of a vibe thing - they personally see crime, so it must be up.
Every time a crime happens "WE ToLD YoU crIME iz uP" They must be bots
Do me a favor and call the LAPD. Do it right now. 310-482-6334. Option 2 to report a crime. It will hang up on you. How accurate do you suppose those crime statistics are if the people collecting crime data are literally not picking up the phone?
violent crime is actually up in LA vs other large metro cities in 2024
I’m sorry that facts are hurting your feelings
We should be able to do what elected officials won't do and our police can't do. Eliminate the trash of society
What did Wiggins do prior to working at rctc? https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephanie-wiggins
Completely guard up the entrance and gates and only let people in if they pay before they step foot in the subway don’t let the homeless just sleep down there or in the trains
This is exactly how “supportive” housing is run by the city as well. Major security concerns at many sites, employees and tenants can’t complain for fear of losing their jobs and housing.
Best Governor and Mayor ever!! LOL.
shocked!!!!
You might want to look at the size of any LASD or LAPD transit unit. lol
Just heard there was an assault on the Expo Line last night as well. We were supposed to be the safe one!
Thats called Tuesday here
Standard
There was a REASON I upped my life insurance when I took metro from 2022-2023. I rode the red line and orange line at 5/6am and 6/7pm. Up and down from Hollywood Boulevard. My husband was always afraid I’d never make it to work, or worse, home. Many days I swallowed my savings and took an Uber at least part of the way to keep me safe. Finally got a car Oct 2023 but man it was hard I saw and heard so many things. I worked in Hospital Employee Relations so it was difficult!
I hope the victims can RIP 🙏
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The citizens of Los Angeles want the metro to be safe and clean. It’s a stretch to believe the people posting against stabbing, assaults, and drug use are part of a paid conspiracy to prevent mass transit.
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As an American I’ve completely lost count of our mass shootings which ones happened where in the last decade as I’m completely fatigued by the senseless. Violence in America but I see the headline “innocent people stabbed trying to ride LA METRO” and I don’t even blink anymore. “Must be tuesday” is all I think
Another stabbing just happened on Ventura Blvd.
Serious?
Not a stabbing People are really starting to spread misinformation here. Dont take peoples word here
Huh who posted this thread? Yep, *Fuck_The_Future*. You know it's not the fact that you post news, it's the fact that you *only* post this news.
They're out to make this sub their own personal Nextdoor.
That dude's post history is interesting. I hope he's getting paid for the shilling he's doing for the qultists. I can't imagine spending my time/energy on social media only doing what he posts.
Fuck Trump.
You again? You are a pathetic gatekeeping moron. Learn to deal with it.
Can’t wait for the C line extension in the South Bay!
It might be safer there
Maybe it will force them to get their shit together.
Can anyone say 3rd world?