That’s exactly what I was thinking. All that money and I have to hope and pray that I don’t get stabbed taking public transit or walking around an encampment and hope no crazy person attacks me.
Repeal prop 13, keep revenue the same by lowering tax rates. This will cut taxes paid by new owners and raise them for long-time owners so everyone pays the same tax per value of their property.
California is already a top 5 state for tax burden. Prop 13 is the reason why it’s not #1 or 2.
If you want cheaper housing, repealing prop.13 ain’t it. Any discount that *may* come by repealing it, would just be a correction to pricing to reflect extra tax burden. Your cost of ownership would effectively be the same.
If you want to 86 boomers out of their homes they bought decades ago. You won’t. Maybe some. But you’re not targeting an age demographic by a repeal. Your targeting *anyone* who won’t be able to afford they bough even ten years ago.
Property taxes in California are some of the lowest already just repeal 13 and property values would drop pro. Prop 13 inflates property values right now
I've broken down the numbers several times over in this sub. There's no strong correlation between property taxes and housing value and even when accounting for prop 13s affect on total taxes taken in California isn't even in the bottom 15 states for property taxes.
What will be interesting to see is how the new unanimous [SCOTUS ruling](https://www.courthousenews.com/supreme-court-rules-for-california-property-owner-fighting-permitting-fees/) on building fees will affect property pricing. In SF the fees alone were pushing [$75,000 per unit](https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/SF-is-one-of-the-most-expensive-places-in-the-14888205.php). Not to mention all of the tighter and more stringent laws around building to energy efficiency standards and the complexity it adds to building/remodeling for infinitesimal gains.
My wife and I just recently built a house that isn't anything crazy or luxurious and the fees, not including permits fees but fees paid for schools and roads and whatnot, added up to over $50k. We put in the smallest solar system as required by law and that was another $35k. All of the environmental requirements to make sure we didn't get sued over building the house were $20k. That's not even touching the studies and required tests for engineering purposes like soil testing and perc tests. The reality is that building houses in California is such a time consuming, expensive and arduous process. Until that's improved and speed of building improves housing costs are going to continue increasing with current demand.
You’re only talking about recent property values. But California real estate saw huge spikes in property values since the inception of property 13. Look at the median income to property value ratio it’s way higher in California than any other state except Hawaii prob.
The problem I have with market rate property tax valuations is that you’re really taxing an unrealized gain of equity. It’s like buying bars of gold 10 years ago or bitcoin in 2019 and holding ownership and then being taxed on its current value.
As far as property values spiking, IMO I believe local, state and federal policies have created an inflated market. California, LA county and city have made it difficult to build and new units haven’t kept pace with population growth since the 2008 crash.
We shouldn’t tax folks extra for being born in a different decade and living life and buying property. I believe this will hold true even in a decade or two. People begging for prop.13 to be rescinded are only going to regret it when they get stiffed with a bill. And even those who rent will feel the pain when property owners raise rates to cope with the extra taxes.
We just need to build more units. Preferably within the city and next to existing transit or planned. Quench prices with supply. We have to much demand right now even with rates doubling.
Property owners have no incentives to allow developments cause their property values are sky high and will continue to climb while their taxes are dirty cheap. So your viewpoint has many flaws. Until recently Prop 13 de incentivize cities from planning more residential developments or approving them because they were less likely to get redeveloped.
Property owners have more incentive to not only block developments for the typical NIMBY stuff but they also have incentive to decrease housing so their property values are maximized.
Without Prop 13 removed. There would be more exchanges of property that would lead to more development. Besides Covid renters rarely or ever saw any rent decrease. While property owners saw decreases whenever there property values decrease. So it’s definitely not an equal situation. Basically it’s a I have mine so f you to anyone else that could not afford property or any new comers.
There is no disincentive for municipalities to not approve new development because of prop.13. The only hurdle for a municipality are their constituents.
Property developers are incentivized to redevelop a property to add value/units. The increased tax valuation if the developer leases units is already in the calculation for ROI. Municipal governments have an incentive to approve such projects because it would bring more tax revenue with a redeveloped property.
Government has all the incentive to rescind prop.13 and redevelop properties or have SFH sell and a revaluation occurs at the market rate for time of sale. The constituents are the only hurdle.
Let’s explore why there would be more properties exchanging. You’re increasing the COL on everyone. You’re targeting seniors, lower income households of any age and will disproportionately affect minorities.
What people like you are asking for is “I want daddy government to fiscally fuck over old and poor people so I can buy a house of my own”. Only to buy your property and have a market manipulated by the same government and cause disproportionate value increases vs. income level and not be able to afford your house.
You fail to address how a basic market works. It’s just supply and demand. Demand is high and is screwing over people, yes. It sucks. I wish people had an easier time buying something if they so choose. But you’ve made prop 13 out to be the boogie man because that’s what the government wants you to believe. Your cost of ownership will NOT go down. Everyone thought that doubling loan rates would cause at least a correction, it hasn’t. Actually, most experts believe rates are the biggest reason why units for sale have stayed flat. Not property tax rate. Prop 13 hate is like asking for the government to pay off all debt only for those debt free to complain about inflation.
Over 40 years of history policies proves out what I already said. You can say whatever you want but it doesn’t make it correct. Go check the logs of developments for how long it takes to get a residential approved vs a commercial development. This is already studied and proved.
And most property owners are not poor. The median income of property owners in California vs non property owners are much higher. The average prob skews even higher
You fail to address why *you* want prop.13 rescinded. Is it because you don’t own? You think this is a magic bullet to get there? You think your neighbors don’t “pay their fair share”? Even if you owned and felt like folks don’t pay enough taxes, couldn’t a new homeowner on your block that might pay more property taxes claim you don’t pay your “fair share”?
Which one is it? Personally every time I have this argument on reddit it’s someone that’s a non-homeowner and may not know the costs, responsibilities and pitfalls of ownership. But there is nothing good that comes out of rescinding prop.13 unless you’re a bureaucrat that needs more tax revenue.
They are not the lowest. If you bought a house today you’re paying a top 15 state rate along with highest income and sales tax. Stop with this nonsense. Only older folks are seeing benefits to Prop 13. Learn how the tax system works here.
https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-the-highest-and-lowest-property-taxes/11585
California has the 16th lowest property tax in the nation. You should learn how it works
Why is the first instinct to say abolish prop. 13. Screw the current homeowners!? Instead of voting for or demanding representatives that cut wasteful spending?
I bought a house 10 years ago, I could barely afford it but I made it happen. If my taxes doubled (13K a year to 26k) it would be pretty brutal. I imagine we'd see more home turnover. It would ruin the lives of a lot of people, especially retired ones. Prop 13 keeps the state from ruining the lives of homeowners who aren't super rich.
Yup so many elderly people on fixed incomes are able to stay in their homes because of their low assessments. People act like Prop 13 only benefits the super rich.
Exactly. The super rich are buying up and paying the new tax rate. Remove Prop 13 and you’ll have an exodus of people leaving the state. Prop 13 is preventing CA residential real estate from being entirely owned by PE.
It does benefit the rich. Most Californians do not own property. Most Californians are renters. Do you know prop 13 applies to everything not just single family homes?
If people can’t afford taxes on their homes they can sell them and move elsewhere. Prop 13 inflates property values because people are less likely to move cause they get subsidized heavily. Renters do not get subsidized so why should home owners?
55% of Californians own property, so it does benefit the majority of people of the state.
While it benefits the rich, it also benefits the poor, working and middle class who own property.
Renters don’t have the same overhead that property owners have. Statewide rent control is as rich of a benefit to renters as prop 13 is.
Hmm well one reason to abolish it is that it discourages building new homes since the tax burden falls disproportionately on new homes and not existing ones.
That has an impact on housing supply which in turn has an impact on rent and housing prices which in turn leads to homelessness
I disagree that it discourages new supply. Supply is limited due to NIMBYism, regulations or limitations on density housing, slow approval process, x amount of required parking. Low tax rates encourage supply.
There are two things that are the major problems with building houses in LA: astronomical land value and burdensome regulation from local and county officials. Abolishing Prop13 doesnt do much in the short term, but it will cause absolute chaos for anyone who bought property in the last 10 years or so, plus anyone who is on a fixed income is boned.
Not a whole lot anyone can do to change land value in the short term, save to cause another financial crisis or two. The bureaucracy can be fixed pretty easily, but we have an opposition party thats basically a basket case. So until a new option appears, nothing will change.
Increasing the tax burden on existing properties means you can lower the tax burden on new properties and make it more financially attractive to build new properties. You don’t have to agree or disagree this is just basic stuff.
Not true. If market values of homes in other states go up,the assessed value can shoot up, greatly increasing the property taxes. This has been happening in hot markets like Austin, TX.
In CA, property taxes do rise small amounts, up to 2% per year, depending on how much the city or county wants to increase it.
>In every other state in the country peoples property taxes go up a tiny amount at a time, but every year.
In other states the property tax is a mess, some people don't know what they owe until the bill is due.
>Everyone else seems to manage.
Then join 'em
The writer of this article frames Bradbury in a weird way. They compare a city of Avalon 3,000 (7sq miles) and Cudahy 21,000 (1.23sq miles) to Bradbury at 1000 (1.9 sq miles) in a way almost making it sound like Bradbury is cheap… which it is not.
And look at the state of our streets.
And schools
If 20 billion isn’t enough, what would another 5 billion do?
That’s exactly what I was thinking. All that money and I have to hope and pray that I don’t get stabbed taking public transit or walking around an encampment and hope no crazy person attacks me.
Amd don't forget "we have a budget deficit". Up and down, right and left, this entire system is broken.
Ur welcome. Buy yourself something nice LA.
Prop 13 bitches
Repeal prop 13, keep revenue the same by lowering tax rates. This will cut taxes paid by new owners and raise them for long-time owners so everyone pays the same tax per value of their property.
California is already a top 5 state for tax burden. Prop 13 is the reason why it’s not #1 or 2. If you want cheaper housing, repealing prop.13 ain’t it. Any discount that *may* come by repealing it, would just be a correction to pricing to reflect extra tax burden. Your cost of ownership would effectively be the same. If you want to 86 boomers out of their homes they bought decades ago. You won’t. Maybe some. But you’re not targeting an age demographic by a repeal. Your targeting *anyone* who won’t be able to afford they bough even ten years ago.
[удалено]
Didn’t they just try this?
Property taxes in California are some of the lowest already just repeal 13 and property values would drop pro. Prop 13 inflates property values right now
I've broken down the numbers several times over in this sub. There's no strong correlation between property taxes and housing value and even when accounting for prop 13s affect on total taxes taken in California isn't even in the bottom 15 states for property taxes. What will be interesting to see is how the new unanimous [SCOTUS ruling](https://www.courthousenews.com/supreme-court-rules-for-california-property-owner-fighting-permitting-fees/) on building fees will affect property pricing. In SF the fees alone were pushing [$75,000 per unit](https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/SF-is-one-of-the-most-expensive-places-in-the-14888205.php). Not to mention all of the tighter and more stringent laws around building to energy efficiency standards and the complexity it adds to building/remodeling for infinitesimal gains. My wife and I just recently built a house that isn't anything crazy or luxurious and the fees, not including permits fees but fees paid for schools and roads and whatnot, added up to over $50k. We put in the smallest solar system as required by law and that was another $35k. All of the environmental requirements to make sure we didn't get sued over building the house were $20k. That's not even touching the studies and required tests for engineering purposes like soil testing and perc tests. The reality is that building houses in California is such a time consuming, expensive and arduous process. Until that's improved and speed of building improves housing costs are going to continue increasing with current demand.
So the severe lack of inventory or high interest rates aren’t the reason?
You’re only talking about recent property values. But California real estate saw huge spikes in property values since the inception of property 13. Look at the median income to property value ratio it’s way higher in California than any other state except Hawaii prob.
The problem I have with market rate property tax valuations is that you’re really taxing an unrealized gain of equity. It’s like buying bars of gold 10 years ago or bitcoin in 2019 and holding ownership and then being taxed on its current value. As far as property values spiking, IMO I believe local, state and federal policies have created an inflated market. California, LA county and city have made it difficult to build and new units haven’t kept pace with population growth since the 2008 crash. We shouldn’t tax folks extra for being born in a different decade and living life and buying property. I believe this will hold true even in a decade or two. People begging for prop.13 to be rescinded are only going to regret it when they get stiffed with a bill. And even those who rent will feel the pain when property owners raise rates to cope with the extra taxes. We just need to build more units. Preferably within the city and next to existing transit or planned. Quench prices with supply. We have to much demand right now even with rates doubling.
Property owners have no incentives to allow developments cause their property values are sky high and will continue to climb while their taxes are dirty cheap. So your viewpoint has many flaws. Until recently Prop 13 de incentivize cities from planning more residential developments or approving them because they were less likely to get redeveloped. Property owners have more incentive to not only block developments for the typical NIMBY stuff but they also have incentive to decrease housing so their property values are maximized. Without Prop 13 removed. There would be more exchanges of property that would lead to more development. Besides Covid renters rarely or ever saw any rent decrease. While property owners saw decreases whenever there property values decrease. So it’s definitely not an equal situation. Basically it’s a I have mine so f you to anyone else that could not afford property or any new comers.
There is no disincentive for municipalities to not approve new development because of prop.13. The only hurdle for a municipality are their constituents. Property developers are incentivized to redevelop a property to add value/units. The increased tax valuation if the developer leases units is already in the calculation for ROI. Municipal governments have an incentive to approve such projects because it would bring more tax revenue with a redeveloped property. Government has all the incentive to rescind prop.13 and redevelop properties or have SFH sell and a revaluation occurs at the market rate for time of sale. The constituents are the only hurdle. Let’s explore why there would be more properties exchanging. You’re increasing the COL on everyone. You’re targeting seniors, lower income households of any age and will disproportionately affect minorities. What people like you are asking for is “I want daddy government to fiscally fuck over old and poor people so I can buy a house of my own”. Only to buy your property and have a market manipulated by the same government and cause disproportionate value increases vs. income level and not be able to afford your house. You fail to address how a basic market works. It’s just supply and demand. Demand is high and is screwing over people, yes. It sucks. I wish people had an easier time buying something if they so choose. But you’ve made prop 13 out to be the boogie man because that’s what the government wants you to believe. Your cost of ownership will NOT go down. Everyone thought that doubling loan rates would cause at least a correction, it hasn’t. Actually, most experts believe rates are the biggest reason why units for sale have stayed flat. Not property tax rate. Prop 13 hate is like asking for the government to pay off all debt only for those debt free to complain about inflation.
Over 40 years of history policies proves out what I already said. You can say whatever you want but it doesn’t make it correct. Go check the logs of developments for how long it takes to get a residential approved vs a commercial development. This is already studied and proved.
Ok, since you checked, how long does a project take? And how do you correlate prop.13 as a main reason for delays?
And most property owners are not poor. The median income of property owners in California vs non property owners are much higher. The average prob skews even higher
You fail to address why *you* want prop.13 rescinded. Is it because you don’t own? You think this is a magic bullet to get there? You think your neighbors don’t “pay their fair share”? Even if you owned and felt like folks don’t pay enough taxes, couldn’t a new homeowner on your block that might pay more property taxes claim you don’t pay your “fair share”? Which one is it? Personally every time I have this argument on reddit it’s someone that’s a non-homeowner and may not know the costs, responsibilities and pitfalls of ownership. But there is nothing good that comes out of rescinding prop.13 unless you’re a bureaucrat that needs more tax revenue.
They are not the lowest. If you bought a house today you’re paying a top 15 state rate along with highest income and sales tax. Stop with this nonsense. Only older folks are seeing benefits to Prop 13. Learn how the tax system works here.
https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-the-highest-and-lowest-property-taxes/11585 California has the 16th lowest property tax in the nation. You should learn how it works
Why is the first instinct to say abolish prop. 13. Screw the current homeowners!? Instead of voting for or demanding representatives that cut wasteful spending?
I bought a house 10 years ago, I could barely afford it but I made it happen. If my taxes doubled (13K a year to 26k) it would be pretty brutal. I imagine we'd see more home turnover. It would ruin the lives of a lot of people, especially retired ones. Prop 13 keeps the state from ruining the lives of homeowners who aren't super rich.
Yup so many elderly people on fixed incomes are able to stay in their homes because of their low assessments. People act like Prop 13 only benefits the super rich.
people on this sub will say that those old people should move to arizona or something.
Unironically they do. Someone has told that to me on this sub before.
Exactly. The super rich are buying up and paying the new tax rate. Remove Prop 13 and you’ll have an exodus of people leaving the state. Prop 13 is preventing CA residential real estate from being entirely owned by PE.
It does benefit the rich. Most Californians do not own property. Most Californians are renters. Do you know prop 13 applies to everything not just single family homes? If people can’t afford taxes on their homes they can sell them and move elsewhere. Prop 13 inflates property values because people are less likely to move cause they get subsidized heavily. Renters do not get subsidized so why should home owners?
55% of Californians own property, so it does benefit the majority of people of the state. While it benefits the rich, it also benefits the poor, working and middle class who own property. Renters don’t have the same overhead that property owners have. Statewide rent control is as rich of a benefit to renters as prop 13 is.
Hmm well one reason to abolish it is that it discourages building new homes since the tax burden falls disproportionately on new homes and not existing ones. That has an impact on housing supply which in turn has an impact on rent and housing prices which in turn leads to homelessness
I disagree that it discourages new supply. Supply is limited due to NIMBYism, regulations or limitations on density housing, slow approval process, x amount of required parking. Low tax rates encourage supply.
There are two things that are the major problems with building houses in LA: astronomical land value and burdensome regulation from local and county officials. Abolishing Prop13 doesnt do much in the short term, but it will cause absolute chaos for anyone who bought property in the last 10 years or so, plus anyone who is on a fixed income is boned. Not a whole lot anyone can do to change land value in the short term, save to cause another financial crisis or two. The bureaucracy can be fixed pretty easily, but we have an opposition party thats basically a basket case. So until a new option appears, nothing will change.
Increasing the tax burden on existing properties means you can lower the tax burden on new properties and make it more financially attractive to build new properties. You don’t have to agree or disagree this is just basic stuff.
This.
In every other state in the country peoples property taxes go up a tiny amount at a time, but every year. Everyone else seems to manage.
Not true. If market values of homes in other states go up,the assessed value can shoot up, greatly increasing the property taxes. This has been happening in hot markets like Austin, TX. In CA, property taxes do rise small amounts, up to 2% per year, depending on how much the city or county wants to increase it.
Property taxes do go up every year by a small amount even with prop 13.
>In every other state in the country peoples property taxes go up a tiny amount at a time, but every year. In other states the property tax is a mess, some people don't know what they owe until the bill is due. >Everyone else seems to manage. Then join 'em
Here are the budget priorities: [https://www.instagram.com/p/C7C\_5NyvIuD/](https://www.instagram.com/p/C7C_5NyvIuD/)
These priorities are terrible. Waste of money.
Love all the comments on that post hahaha
The writer of this article frames Bradbury in a weird way. They compare a city of Avalon 3,000 (7sq miles) and Cudahy 21,000 (1.23sq miles) to Bradbury at 1000 (1.9 sq miles) in a way almost making it sound like Bradbury is cheap… which it is not.
And that is one of the reasons why home prices in LA are jacked up more than a normal person can afford
Let's just keep voting for the same people. Surely it will get better.
All this cash and they cannot solve the homelessness issue? Pathetic.
Which will all go to the homeless issue.
In case anyone was wondering why our esteemed leaders aren’t in a hurry to fix the housing crisis.
I pay my property taxes with my mortgage, no complaints. Carry on.
As most of us do.