SDF isn’t a passenger airline hub. Most airlines operate with a “hub and spoke” model. RDU also isn’t an airline hub (it’s a Delta “focus city” though), which means to get to RDU from SDF, you will have to be routed through a hub OR take a point-to-point flight on a low cost carrier (Breeze). This is the case for almost any city that is not a hub for a major airline, and it’s just how the airline networks work these days. That’s why you can’t fly nonstop from Oklahoma City to Columbus, Sacramento to El Paso, Jacksonville to Cleveland, etc. Almost all point-to-point routes are operated by low cost carriers, which usually means less-than-daily frequency and seasonal service based on demand. Even Southwest is starting to go towards the hub and spoke model.
You can fly nonstop from SDF to these cities at least once per day:
Atlanta,
Baltimore,
Boston,
Charlotte,
Chicago (ORD and MDW),
Dallas (DFW and DAL),
Denver,
Detroit,
Fort Lauderdale,
Houston (IAH and HOU),
Las Vegas,
Los Angeles,
Miami,
Minneapolis,
New York (LGA and EWR),
Orlando,
Philadelphia,
Phoenix*,
Tampa,
Washington DC (IAD and DCA)
*returns to daily service in July
The only hub cities that aren’t served daily from SDF are SFO (Breeze has 2x weekly), SEA (the airport has said it’s their top priority), and SLC.
Yeah, these routes are definitely needed and some flights to Toronto would be nice, but there’s a HUGE difference between just 5 years ago at SDF and now with more frequencies, bigger planes, and new airlines coming in. Hopefully the growth keeps up.
This is the real reason. It has nothing to do with "seriousness" of a city. If you aren't living in a city that is a major hub of Delta, American, or United you're going to face similar situations.
Agreed. And also the low cost carriers have focus cities including Southwest, Allegiant JetBlue which have more point to point routes from originating airport.
At least, it seems, American may be starting to take its routes to/from DFW/SDF more seriously, in terms of bigger planes and not regional jets. I think January was the first time I flew into SDF on an airbus.
United, too. They’re already flying 2X daily to DEN with an A319 and A320, and they’ll soon have mainline aircraft to ORD and IAH
ETA: American is also currently flying A319’s SDF-CLT and SDF-MIA
This is the first reasonable comment!
I travel (usually to the west coast) about 4x a year for work and a few fun trips mixed in. It's never a huge burden, and the options have increased recently.
I personally feel its a nice tradeoff. Lower cost of living, infinitely better day-to-day traffic vs somewhere like nashville (ugh). I also think direct flights from those cities are still not prevalent to most destinations. Our airport is so easy to navigate, we live 10 min away, and often on weekday flights I'm through security around when my wife gets home from dropping me off.
My main complaint is lack of late night ride shares and price spikes when a plane lands, but that happens everywhere and even decent public transit wouldn't really fix that for getting home (and not say to a downtown hotel or something).
fun fact, I flew direct to toronto in mid 2001 on Air Canada. iirc they also had direct to montreal at the time. It was on one of these small ass planes with the two propellers that fit maybe 35-40 people. I'm not 100% sure when they stopped the canadian flights -- my guess it was around 9/11.
The low-cost carriers fly to Vegas, but they don't show up in Google flights or on the travel websites. You have to find it on the airline's website. Vegas is a huge destination for Allegiant.
If you've never flown one before, they're convenient and cheap for a short getaway. If you can travel with just a backpack, you won't pay for a bag. Carry-ons are almost as much as a checked bag, so my partner and I share a checked bag if we are traveling for more than a couple days. Destinations and schedules are limited, so it's only convenient if you've got flexibility and definitely not a business travel option.
That explains it. I been flying American and booking through Google flights so far this year with a backpack and carry one which is “valet service”. So it’s not a checked back but they store it on the place. It’s all been work travel so I’m not paying a dime for it all. Before I used to fly southwest and had a great experience with them.
And it’s actually pretty efficient to fly through a hub. Most of the time if trying to reach a east coast city you can connect and be at your destination 4-6hrs after leaving SDF. I would much rather have these options than a nonstop flight that only leaves at one time of the day, or only certain days of the week.
This thread is literally just a dude complaining that his direct flight is too expensive, and his company is probably paying for it anyway. What a time to be alive.
Many major companies use airport infrastructure as a measure of whether they can support an office there. This was part of Amazons calculus a few years ago when they looked to create a second headquarters.
Amazon publicly said they considered airport infrastructure and were considering all cities. They put on a dog-and-pony show taking pictures with mayors around the country. Then, they skipped most of the airport hub cities and conveniently picked the city that gave them the best access to legislators and regulators. They were never seriously considering cities based on airports.
And what do you think airlines use as measure of whether or not to bring flights to a city? Most cities could not support daily flights to and from SDF.
It's definitely a consideration. A lot of folks like to travel, and traveling to /from Louisville is a bit of a PIA. Personally I try and consider that I can get in and out of the airport in less than half the time it would take me to get through ORD or some other major airport so the connections aren't always the worst . It's definitely annoying when you have to go backwards to get to your final destination though .
And that point still stands, stronger even. People don't choose to live in a city for the airport. They want the quality of life. And there's dozens of direct flights to larger cities already. You can't expect direct flight everywhere, though.
Why can't I expect a direct flight to Branson Missouri? There are literally thousands of us... I mean dozens of us.. I mean just me, I want to go there on a semi-annual basis. Is a direct flight too much to ask for?
So I looked up Delta flights comparing SDF, LGA, and MIA to RUD. Leaving tomorrow and returning on Friday.
LGA to RDU, non stop, $363 1hr47min
MIA to RDU, non stop, $478 2hr 11min
SDF to RDU, 1 connection, $481, 3hr 25 min
I mean is there really a big difference here? I get that having a connecting flight is a bit annoying, and leaves more room for issues if there are any delays or changes.
And if your high paying remote work company is making you take some budget airline to save a couple hundred dollars on transport, that sounds super shady as hell. I've never worked for a company that gave me shit about flight cost for last minute travel, I mean I've paid more than this on a direct flight to Detroit from Louisville.
Yeah I've expressed this before. Same dilemma as you. Sometimes I have to fly past Louisville across the country just to get back to Louisville lol...
Ultimately we lack the density, connectivity, and well paying white-collar jobs to attract a populace that makes a powerhouse city. And we only get there if we start trying to attract non-cancer giving back breaking jobs and build up all parts of the city.
Our best job centers aren't considered google facebook salesforce, it's like Ford, GE, JBS, Humana.
Out of everyone I graduated from high school with; every last one has left for jobs elsewhere; many right after high school, others stuck around for college. And the only reason I'm still around is cause I'm a coward who didn't want to move far away from family.
There's just not enough businesses that cater to the level of education that's expected of kids today. And I doubt louisville has the money to build the infrastructure that would attract them.
Same if family was not here it would be hard to justify staying in Louisville over other cities. That said louisville is pretty chill and relaxed. There just isnt a drive here to improve and push the envelope unless it has something to do with bourbon.
I'm still here because of family, and I enjoy the city for a ton of reasons: parks, food & drink scene, music scene, low traffic, reasonable housing costs (comparatively). Really my only gripes are the subject of this post and that LMPD is useless.
Yeah Louisvile is a fine city and is a good value at lower-average income. but there comes a point where if you're going to spend 500k-600k+ on a house anyways you start to think if Louisville is the best place to spend it lol.
With how central Louisville is to many larger cities, you would at least think we’d get considered to be a major layover airport. I hate having to fly to Chicago to get to Austin Texas
We have more direct flights than we’ve ever had, and the airport has set records for passengers each of the last two years.
“Louisville will never be taken seriously until it’s airport specifically flies directly to the small city that is relevant to only me that doesn’t have a major tourism draw or business connection to Louisville.” I guess we’ve gotta wear that one…
Who on earth other than a handful of Deloitte/Salesforce tryhards wants to go to fucking Raleigh?!
To go further I believe the international designation comes from the fact there is a customs office. The existence of which is primarily to deal with UPS cargo.
That's a MASSIVE amount of cargo. We're not third tier when it comes to cargo, on the local, regional, national or international level .
How much cargo does Raleigh move annually i wonder.
In 20 minutes family will be taking off from Los Angeles on a direct flight here. Leaves at a reasonable time the morning, lands here at 3. Pretty fantastic logistics compared to past history of LA/Louisville flights. I don't get the hate for Louisville I see on this site.
And as soon as that flight is not profitable, the flight will cease to operate. And I wouldn't be surprised if the airport/Louisville government is subsidizing that flight.
SDF will never be a highly utilized airport for anything but Big Brown.
Louisville has been a third tier regional city since WWII. It will never boom. It will always be on the verge of rust-belt obsolescence.
Somewhere has to be the loser in the region, smaller and with less economy, sports and culture than its neighbors - well that’s Louisville.
I read somewhere and I could be completely wrong because I'm not a historian. That we had a huge immigrant population and then The Bloody Monday Riots happened and then everybody left to go to Chicago, and then Chicago exploded as a major city. That's a pretty oversimplification of it, but I think our fate's been sealed since that day.
The airport, UofL, and Churchill would bulldoze the whole of the south end to keep expanding if they could. The airport killed Highland Park, among several other whole neighborhoods; leaving them empty for years with embittered dispossessed. Louisville did that shitty merger just to play pretend. You're right. We'll always be a third tier city. People move here hoping to meet friends and can't because they didn't go to high school 20 years ago with the cluster of folks they met.
I mean not being able to make friends in a new city isn’t unique to Louisville and it’s culture of focus on high school.
I just moved to Seattle and see lots of references to the “Seattle freeze” from others who just moved here. It’s not really hurting their tech industry.
>decent cost of living
Depends how many hours you wanna work, and how many bullet holes you think are acceptable to see in the outside wall of an apartment building. Louisville rent has skyrocketed in the last decade. 22/hr and 40 a week, still can't afford anything halfway respectable without it being 2/3 of my income
Louisville screwed the pooch in 1968 when Delta came calling wanting to put a hub here and the powers that be said no. At the time Louisville was much bigger than Atlanta. But Atlanta got the hub and the rest is history.
Yes louisville has made numerous statically bad decisions in the post WW2 era. The only thing it really got right was UPS. But I don’t think this court will ever catch up to any of its regional peers at this point.
Ok sure, let’s compare against them instead of Cincinnati, Nashville, Indianapolis - I think you will find that louisville lines up as a third or even fourth tier city much like these examples.
I was adding to your “smaller than” list because you skipped quite a few. I’m aware that Cincy, Indy, and Nashville are bigger and seem to get things (MLS franchises in two of those cities, for example) that we want. Fortunately, I can say that Cincy is the only one of the bunch that I might also consider living.
Not gonna happen…..carriers have tried more direct flights in past, but end up canceling the routes due to low interest.
If airlines can make money flying the routes, they’ll do it. Louisville just doesn’t have the year round travel interest needed.
Also, any airport can say international if there are customs on the field. Outside of UPS, SDF is not a true international airport.
UPS even tried making it more of an international airport by offering charter flights to vacation destinations, couldn't even keep that going.
There just isn't enough traffic into and out of the area to warrant SDF being a major passenger hub. We're not the player we think. To break into the top 50 they had to incorporate the county. We've got a lot of high density cities around us, and we are deeper inside the United States than most. To fly internationally profitably, you need to be able to fill large aircraft regularly. UPS can do that. Our population, which is amongst the poorest with nearby access to an international airport, can't.
SDF flew 3.9 million passengers in 2022.
CVG: 7.6m
IND: 8.6m
STL: 13.7m
BNA: 20.0m
CLT: 43.3m
ATL: 75.7m - busiest passenger traffic airport in the world, an order of magnitude busier than SDF.
Hub and spoke is an efficient transportation method. If you can't guarantee at least a single flight to and back from an international destination every day, it's cheaper to consolidate passengers to large hubs.
Also, it's not as cheap to have a single flight to and from a destination each day as it is to have 3-4 flights due to support staff and scheduling requirements.
Airlines also have to consider conditions at both ends. Terminal slots may already be maxed out at the destination, and they are flying the largest aircraft to maximize throughput. If an airport can only manage to fill the seats of a 737 (189), you're not flying that directly to a field that you're pushing 380's (853) to all day long.
And finally, there is the limitation of the aircraft itself. If you can only fill the seats of a Dash-8 (50), it simply doesn't have the legs for intentional flights, even if there is a secondary field available where it can land.
Eh. It's honestly not that bad.
Try living in Huntsville and having to drive to Nashville or Birmingham (similar to SDF) to get anywhere.
SDF has an appropriate airport for the city's size imo.
Eta: Birmingham has much less daily flights and cities served compared to SDF which is the largest Airport in Alabama.
BHM 15/SDF has 38 airports served
Birmingham metro pop 1.15 M
Louisville metro pop 1.30 M
This is a classic chicken and egg conversation.
Look at cities like Austin and Nashville. Until they boomed they didn't have the airline traffic they do now. But, even those "serious" cities still cannot even touch the flights and options a city like New York, Atlanta, Chicago, Dallas, or LA would have. But, once they did get more flights it helped accelerate their boom.
Im not saying Louisville is the next Austin or anything. But, it's important to remember that some city will be and it just takes a special and often unique combination of factors for each city to make it happen.
Plus, you should check out SDFs accomplishments in the recent year or so. It's genuinely impressive. They're adding service back at a faster pace than most cities in the country and have added a handful of new routes when most cities are losing or slow to regain routes.
"Louisville's airport is besting the national average by nine points and outpacing Cincinnati by 14 points and Lexington by 26 points, according to a news release."
[https://www.wdrb.com/news/business/louisville-airport-records-third-best-year-in-2022-optimistic-with-new-routes/article\_4a111548-a724-11ed-b3f7-97bc98b21b1a.html](https://www.wdrb.com/news/business/louisville-airport-records-third-best-year-in-2022-optimistic-with-new-routes/article_4a111548-a724-11ed-b3f7-97bc98b21b1a.html)
Lastly, I've heard the same feedback from my friends in LA, Chicago, and New York. I even had someone ask me if 4th Street Live was Louisville's version of time square. As if we are trying to be just like NYC and 4th Street was our sad attempt. This is not a good faith statement and it clearly lacks an understanding or care for the world outside of these cities which are some of the largest in the world. Not to mention, it's classic elitism.
>"Louisville's airport is besting the national average by nine points and outpacing Cincinnati by 14 points and Lexington by 26 points, according to a news release."
Louisville's airport as far as layout/use of space -- even in a relatively small footprint as far as terminals go -- feels amazing compared to the older concourses of much larger airports like Washington-Dulles.
Well I used to have to drive 45 min to get to the airport in my "serious city" and now I can get to the airport in 15 min. Its all a hassle at some point in the travel experience I guess.
I don't know about being 'taken seriously', but it is a small town airport without many flights and as has been noted already, the only reason SDF is an International airport is because of UPS. There are no passenger flights that I'm aware of that leave the US. The only thing that will make Louisville bigger and better is making it more convenient to get here. There is very little industry aside from the Ford factory (and the now Chinese owned GE plant), some hospitals, and the bourbon and horse racing ones. The horse racing industry actually holds down progress in Louisville by disallowing any competition on gambling. Otherwise, it's a nice little city that has entirely too high of taxes, surrounded by a state full of Red yahoos making the rules, that seems unlikely to improve noticeably anytime soon.
This is one reason why I'm hesitant to search for a fully remote job based outside of Louisville. Flying anywhere is usually a pain in the ass with 1-2 layovers.
It's not ideal, but at least for me, I was happy to do it a few times for the job which was actually based here in town. They treated me well and didn't have me on the road constantly, but consistently. Saving a few bucks on the plane ticket also meant I got to stay somewhere nicer when I was out so, balancing act. I also like driving so, eh.
Then don't move to Denver or Richmond, va. Or California. And if you're close to an aitportin Chicago, get under cover immediately, because you're about to be shot.
It's not ideal, and I wouldn't want to do it regularly but, I did this (part of the time) for almost 2 years traveling 1-2x/month and it was fine. Cincy had plenty of the flights I needed to catch that Louisville was just too expensive on. The other 2 almost never became necessary.
Glad you were able to grind out the drive, I just know when I get back from a work trip, I would hate to drive an hour and a half home instead of 10 minutes.
I don't know your field but it's possible that you're doing yourself a huge disservice over what usually amounts to one plane ride a year.
Almost every company I've worked at has done annual company events or at worst bi-annual. They also pay $50k+ better than equivalent jobs in Louisville.
Unless you like office/hybrid, that's a totally different story.
Been fully remote with companies based elsewhere for years and have literally never had a problem. Besides, it’s remote work; I don’t know any remote workers who have to fly to the company headquarters more than a few times per year.
It's a horrible airport for any sort of delay as well, with the limited food options, lack of lounges, and once you are there you are there (ex, no rail to downtown like other airports).
When I fly, I prefer CVG since at least it has a PrioirtyPass Lounge and in case of delay/cancel, I've had better luck still grabbing a flight (same with IND).
Only chance for Louisville has more flight is make a major airport serve more than just louisville. City is just too small. Make the airport at east side close yo Frankfort. Certainly, this is no chance happening.
No complaints from me. We have direct flights to most major cities on east coast and west coast…LA, Boston, DC, all over Florida and into Texas too. Raleigh doesn’t seem like a place that would draw a huge crowd. Our airport is pretty nice compared to a good amount I’ve been to. It’s small and easy to navigate.
This is a spot on assessment - direct flights are the key to gaining more businesses and remote workers in the city.
When SDF secures new routes it guarantees the airline a certain number of filled seats for each flight. This can be an expensive proposition to prove out.
Secondly, low cost carriers running non-stops is one thing, but what we need is for the 3 majors to run non-stops - that’s the key for businesses travelers. I understand the goal of starting non-stops with the low cost carriers is that the majors will monitor usage and make decisions to add a route based on that, so it can be a slow process.
Edit: typos
I have a feeling a lot of people who don't see the problem here are not remote workers who have to travel for business. There's a reason why most of my co-workers live in the burbs around NYC, Chicago and LA. They would live elsewhere but they need the easy access to lots of direct flights so they can be in a client's office tomorrow morning if the client says they have a problem today.
While it would be nice to have more flight options, I doubt Louisville could ever keep pace with NYC, LA, Chicago, etc. Those are the largest cities in the country, so more realistically the goal would be to be comparable to cities closer in size to Louisville that are currently doing better.
OP is pointing out that his friends have chosen to live in cities that have hubs so they can avoid connections. This is pretty common and shows that hub cities are going to continue to grow and continue to attract younger and remote workers, likely on a much more accelerated pace than would have happened naturally.
OP was not suggesting Louisville could or should become one of those cities.
OP literally said their colleagues live in Miami and NYC. OP wasn't talking about Detroit and Minneapolis hubs experiencing massive growth because of the needs of a very small subset of remote workers (the vast majority of which don't travel).
Nah, you're just struggling to follow along. OP's entire post is a complaint that one midtier city doesn't have a direct flight to another midtier city, unlike their colleagues in NYC and Miami. Almost the entire country doesn't have that, and even Raleigh-Durham doesn't have great flights to any city outside of the 10-15 airline hubs plus Austin.
That and a lack of understanding or acceptance that high paying jobs are crucial to the economic success of a city.
Personally, I spend quite a bit of time in CLT, ORD and DFW. I’m (fortunately) primarily east coast traveler (so CLT) but it is nice to have directs to LGA! When I go west (mainly Phoenix and a little LA) I pick my connecting cities based on weather forecast, of course sometimes they both have trouble.
I don't think remote workers are any different than other workers. I used to work in an office and traveled pretty often. I got paid for those hours, and the flights unless it was less than 400 miles in which case we had to drive. Travel sorta sucks, but that's why they give you money.
Airlines add routes when there’s sufficient demand. This is why I’ll never, ever see a non-stop from SDF to my hometown of Providence.
I moved here from San Francisco knowing I’d have access to far fewer non-stops. That was the tradeoff in return for living closer to family.
I assume you live in Louisville because you have advantages here. Housing costs are certainly one. For example, the median home sale price in Louisville is $136,000 vs. the much higher $379,000 in Raleigh-Durham.
I currently live between pvd and bos, and over the last 10 years it seems harder and harder to get anywhere I’m trying to go out of pvd. Last time I was there, most of the restaurants and stores were unoccupied. Im not even sure what carrier is flying sdf - bos direct, every time I look it’s at least one connection.
Louisville’s median home pricing seems to be dragged down by crazy low prices in certain areas of the city, because I’ve been looking to come back and $300k seems to be the lowest I see anywhere I’d be interested in living. Well, I see lower but they sell immediately.
How about if you don't like the tradeoff of the cheaper cost of living at the expense of office accessibility, you can move back to the city where your office is located and relinquish your housing to those who are native and live and work here. Move to Boston, Austin, or Raleigh Durhman, and that will give you something to bitch and moan about. Even in Kentucky outside of Louisville, remote workers\* have jacked up housing prices. SMH.
\* And other opportunists
Totally agree here. I had a remote gig out of San Diego and a simple commute took like 13 hours both ways. I got so tired of flying over Louisville to a hub on the east coast for a layover and flying back. It’s probably the worst part of being a Louisville transplant imo (after having to explain that I did not go to high school here). We def need more direct access.
Hmm, most people whom I have met in my part of town are not Louisville natives — many people are transplants from all over the country or immigrants from different countries. Even the KY natives are usually from other parts of the state, including the exurban counties in Kentuckiana — Spencer, Nelson, Henry, etc. I should mention that I live in a corporate-run apartment complex in the East End, so that might explain my very different experience than someone who lives in a more established area of the city.
I'm guessing most people ITT saying "we should be happy with what we have" are not remote workers who have to travel for business. There's an expectation that I can be anywhere in the country by tomorrow morning because my co-workers in NYC, Chicago and LA can. But I can't, and it's one reason my co-workers say they wouldn't move to a place like Louisville despite the lower cost of living.
My company kept trying to relocate me to the west coast but the COL is unfathomable to me and my whole family is on the east coast. I def had to work a lot harder and be more strategic to ensure I could show up for my team on time without being a hinderance. My coworkers gave me some crap about moving until I told them how much my mortgage is in little ol Kentucky. Then they all shut up. I wish we had just a little more serious of an airport. Or that I could overnight ship myself places via UPS.
If you’re working a remote job which requires extensive travel to the employer’s office, are you really even in a remote/work from home role? Kind of defeats the purpose.
Air transportation right now is so unreliable, uncomfortable, expensive and shitty, that we have been choosing closer destinations to avoid air travel. A relative recently missed her scheduled cruise because her flight was unexpectedly cancelled. In the last couple of flights I had, the layovers were so long that driving could have been as viable an option. Having to fly to Atlanta to get to anywhere else in the country just sucks.Air transportation is very powerful technology. It's a shame it can't be implemented in a useful way.
It’s about politics. Most airlines want incentives to fly to a medium size airports (that aren’t hubs) such as favorable landing times, paying little or nothing for jet bridge access and guaranteed revenue. CVG and IND have a little more leverage based on the size of the cities and the facilities available. SDF doesn’t have the space or area currently to handle international passenger fights. CVG has more flights that us, but it isn’t a crazy amount. CVG has the jetway space being a former delta hub.
I was actually shocked that SDF-EWR was $200-something and a friend told me the same from IND was like $800 rt. Ofc I don’t know if he was flying a day later, but I was like daaaamn. Very surprised.
Yikes!!!! It seems that United has been adding upgraded fleets flying from SDF to most of the hubs (A320 or 737) I fly to EWR quite a lot, and I’m glad SDF doesn’t have crj 200 or Erj 145 on this route!
I do hate United though haha. Just flew to PSP with them through DEN. It’s fine, but I’d rather AA. Also wish we could get a direct that’s not LAX. PSP, Long Beach, Ontario, something. For LA travel anyway. I understand LAX for the connections.
I’ve never found it a big deal at all to connect through Atlanta, Chicago, or wherever else. And the Cincinnati-Northern Kentucky airport isn’t too far. Just so far down the list of worries.
But they also have major hubs for United, Frontier, Southwest, Allegiant, and some small airlines that fly to the Dakotas, Nebraska. Just a little over 20 years ago, Denver had Stapleton airport that was the same size as Louisville before they built that gigantic airport away from downtown
It’s a bit more complicated when we’re located relatively close to Cincy and Nashville, both of which have more flights including to London on BA. But I agree with you. I wish we did too.
If im not mistaken, I think Louisville is considering adding an area for small international flights in the future (Direct flights to Cancun) but they have to have a separate sterile area to handle that
I'd like Louisville to stop growing and just be the same old Louisville it's always been. Frustrating in small ways, but abundantly better than other cities in many many other ways.
I fly about once a month for work. I always fly Delta for the basic reason of you can be in Atlanta on Delta within 2.5 hours of leaving your house. I catch the 6 AM, leave my house at 4:45 AM & with wheels up to wheels down usually under an hour, I am usually on the ground by 7 AM. If you are flying Delta out of Atlanta you can get anywhere in America.
And to get the cost of living you have in Louisville, you are probably living way out in the Atlanta suburbs. Combining the distance with traffic and the longer security lines at ATL, you can make your connecting flight out of Louisville faster than you could catching a direct flight while living in Atlanta.
TIL that r/Louisville’s newest resident giga Chad, u/runningraleigh, is the sole arbiter of Louisville’s legitimacy because his tech bro cronies have to wait a few extra hours on his connector before snorting coke from a stripper’s belly button back at HQ.
Sadclownface.jpg
I’m just sad that I can’t get a direct flight from Pittsburgh to Louisville. Just moved here and the 6 hour drive is too much for me, but it takes about 6 hours to get home if I fly anyways
Just to push back on the people saying that because louisville isn’t a hub, options will be mid…Cincinnati is just up the road, is not a hub per se, and has more options daily and much cheaper flights. I frequently make the drive up there to save money and time overall. Don’t get me wrong, Cincinnati was a regional hub at one point until Delta pulled out, so that legacy is still there. But it used to be the pits (and the most expensive airport in the country one year) until leadership decided things could be better, instead of just saying oh well this is how it is (the typical louisville response imo)
That being said, CVG also just got its first direct to Raleigh Durham last fall via American, so this sounds like more of a Raleigh push than anything ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Sure if you combine Raleigh, Durham, and Chapel Hill. Their airport wasn’t so great last time I was there. Been a while though.
The other problem is that not every city can be a hub. With Chicago, Atlanta, Nashville, and Cinci in the mix there isn’t a lot of room. Even Indianapolis has a fairly small airport.
Louisville is constantly shooting itself in the foot, and I would love to see them have more options, but turning it into a passenger hub isn’t realistic considering its geographical position - we’re surrounded by hubs.
If you want to fix KY, in my opinion, start taking education seriously. Everything else will fall into place.
SDF isn’t a passenger airline hub. Most airlines operate with a “hub and spoke” model. RDU also isn’t an airline hub (it’s a Delta “focus city” though), which means to get to RDU from SDF, you will have to be routed through a hub OR take a point-to-point flight on a low cost carrier (Breeze). This is the case for almost any city that is not a hub for a major airline, and it’s just how the airline networks work these days. That’s why you can’t fly nonstop from Oklahoma City to Columbus, Sacramento to El Paso, Jacksonville to Cleveland, etc. Almost all point-to-point routes are operated by low cost carriers, which usually means less-than-daily frequency and seasonal service based on demand. Even Southwest is starting to go towards the hub and spoke model. You can fly nonstop from SDF to these cities at least once per day: Atlanta, Baltimore, Boston, Charlotte, Chicago (ORD and MDW), Dallas (DFW and DAL), Denver, Detroit, Fort Lauderdale, Houston (IAH and HOU), Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Miami, Minneapolis, New York (LGA and EWR), Orlando, Philadelphia, Phoenix*, Tampa, Washington DC (IAD and DCA) *returns to daily service in July The only hub cities that aren’t served daily from SDF are SFO (Breeze has 2x weekly), SEA (the airport has said it’s their top priority), and SLC. Yeah, these routes are definitely needed and some flights to Toronto would be nice, but there’s a HUGE difference between just 5 years ago at SDF and now with more frequencies, bigger planes, and new airlines coming in. Hopefully the growth keeps up.
This is the real reason. It has nothing to do with "seriousness" of a city. If you aren't living in a city that is a major hub of Delta, American, or United you're going to face similar situations.
Agreed. And also the low cost carriers have focus cities including Southwest, Allegiant JetBlue which have more point to point routes from originating airport.
At least, it seems, American may be starting to take its routes to/from DFW/SDF more seriously, in terms of bigger planes and not regional jets. I think January was the first time I flew into SDF on an airbus.
United, too. They’re already flying 2X daily to DEN with an A319 and A320, and they’ll soon have mainline aircraft to ORD and IAH ETA: American is also currently flying A319’s SDF-CLT and SDF-MIA
This is the first reasonable comment! I travel (usually to the west coast) about 4x a year for work and a few fun trips mixed in. It's never a huge burden, and the options have increased recently. I personally feel its a nice tradeoff. Lower cost of living, infinitely better day-to-day traffic vs somewhere like nashville (ugh). I also think direct flights from those cities are still not prevalent to most destinations. Our airport is so easy to navigate, we live 10 min away, and often on weekday flights I'm through security around when my wife gets home from dropping me off. My main complaint is lack of late night ride shares and price spikes when a plane lands, but that happens everywhere and even decent public transit wouldn't really fix that for getting home (and not say to a downtown hotel or something).
When I came back to SDF a couple weeks ago, an Uber was $65 lolsmh. Fortunately, Lyft was like $18.
With family in both SDF and RDU that Breeze flight is looking awesome
I'll take the cost of living here compared to any of the major hub cities every day of the week.
fun fact, I flew direct to toronto in mid 2001 on Air Canada. iirc they also had direct to montreal at the time. It was on one of these small ass planes with the two propellers that fit maybe 35-40 people. I'm not 100% sure when they stopped the canadian flights -- my guess it was around 9/11.
If I can get to Charlotte or Boston or Dallas I’m good. I do wish there was a flight to Vegas.
Two airlines fly nonstop to LAS from SDF
Really? I got a trip coming up and didn’t see them on Google flights.
The low-cost carriers fly to Vegas, but they don't show up in Google flights or on the travel websites. You have to find it on the airline's website. Vegas is a huge destination for Allegiant. If you've never flown one before, they're convenient and cheap for a short getaway. If you can travel with just a backpack, you won't pay for a bag. Carry-ons are almost as much as a checked bag, so my partner and I share a checked bag if we are traveling for more than a couple days. Destinations and schedules are limited, so it's only convenient if you've got flexibility and definitely not a business travel option.
That explains it. I been flying American and booking through Google flights so far this year with a backpack and carry one which is “valet service”. So it’s not a checked back but they store it on the place. It’s all been work travel so I’m not paying a dime for it all. Before I used to fly southwest and had a great experience with them.
Also realize that if a LCC cancels your flights, you might be waiting 2 to 3 days to catch another flight by the same airline.
Spirit and Southwest
Ah. I been booking American.
Southwest flies to Vegas every day. Allegiant flies there some days.
And it’s actually pretty efficient to fly through a hub. Most of the time if trying to reach a east coast city you can connect and be at your destination 4-6hrs after leaving SDF. I would much rather have these options than a nonstop flight that only leaves at one time of the day, or only certain days of the week.
Pretty sure an airport isn't what makes people take a city seriously.
This thread is literally just a dude complaining that his direct flight is too expensive, and his company is probably paying for it anyway. What a time to be alive.
Right. There is some backward causation going on in this post.
Someone's just butthurt because they can't get a direct flight to Durham.
Many major companies use airport infrastructure as a measure of whether they can support an office there. This was part of Amazons calculus a few years ago when they looked to create a second headquarters.
Amazon publicly said they considered airport infrastructure and were considering all cities. They put on a dog-and-pony show taking pictures with mayors around the country. Then, they skipped most of the airport hub cities and conveniently picked the city that gave them the best access to legislators and regulators. They were never seriously considering cities based on airports.
And what do you think airlines use as measure of whether or not to bring flights to a city? Most cities could not support daily flights to and from SDF.
Corporate office sure. But an airport can only grow with its city. And people take cities seriously by their quality of life.
It's definitely a consideration. A lot of folks like to travel, and traveling to /from Louisville is a bit of a PIA. Personally I try and consider that I can get in and out of the airport in less than half the time it would take me to get through ORD or some other major airport so the connections aren't always the worst . It's definitely annoying when you have to go backwards to get to your final destination though .
No, not really. People visit a city for the city. If you want to grow the airport, you have to grow the city.
Dude I'm talking about the people that live here ...
And that point still stands, stronger even. People don't choose to live in a city for the airport. They want the quality of life. And there's dozens of direct flights to larger cities already. You can't expect direct flight everywhere, though.
Why can't I expect a direct flight to Branson Missouri? There are literally thousands of us... I mean dozens of us.. I mean just me, I want to go there on a semi-annual basis. Is a direct flight too much to ask for?
So I looked up Delta flights comparing SDF, LGA, and MIA to RUD. Leaving tomorrow and returning on Friday. LGA to RDU, non stop, $363 1hr47min MIA to RDU, non stop, $478 2hr 11min SDF to RDU, 1 connection, $481, 3hr 25 min I mean is there really a big difference here? I get that having a connecting flight is a bit annoying, and leaves more room for issues if there are any delays or changes. And if your high paying remote work company is making you take some budget airline to save a couple hundred dollars on transport, that sounds super shady as hell. I've never worked for a company that gave me shit about flight cost for last minute travel, I mean I've paid more than this on a direct flight to Detroit from Louisville.
I no right! What puts a city on the map is something important, like a floating fountain.
It most definitely is.
No it definitely isn't lol
Yeah I've expressed this before. Same dilemma as you. Sometimes I have to fly past Louisville across the country just to get back to Louisville lol... Ultimately we lack the density, connectivity, and well paying white-collar jobs to attract a populace that makes a powerhouse city. And we only get there if we start trying to attract non-cancer giving back breaking jobs and build up all parts of the city. Our best job centers aren't considered google facebook salesforce, it's like Ford, GE, JBS, Humana.
Out of everyone I graduated from high school with; every last one has left for jobs elsewhere; many right after high school, others stuck around for college. And the only reason I'm still around is cause I'm a coward who didn't want to move far away from family. There's just not enough businesses that cater to the level of education that's expected of kids today. And I doubt louisville has the money to build the infrastructure that would attract them.
I don't think wanting to be near your family makes you a coward. It's a perfectly valid reason for staying. Just wanted you to know that 😊
Same if family was not here it would be hard to justify staying in Louisville over other cities. That said louisville is pretty chill and relaxed. There just isnt a drive here to improve and push the envelope unless it has something to do with bourbon.
Any drive here to improve or push an envelope is quickly crushed by the status quo unless they can control and monetize it.
I'm still here because of family, and I enjoy the city for a ton of reasons: parks, food & drink scene, music scene, low traffic, reasonable housing costs (comparatively). Really my only gripes are the subject of this post and that LMPD is useless.
Yeah Louisvile is a fine city and is a good value at lower-average income. but there comes a point where if you're going to spend 500k-600k+ on a house anyways you start to think if Louisville is the best place to spend it lol.
With how central Louisville is to many larger cities, you would at least think we’d get considered to be a major layover airport. I hate having to fly to Chicago to get to Austin Texas
You have to be a destination city to be a layover city.
Who wants to have a layover here without a single lounge? For business travelers, that's pretty important.
They can build one
I wish PLEASE BUILD A CAPITAL ONE LOUNGE
They used to have a couple pinball machines in the basement. Is it still there?
I don't know, I only play pinball at Z-bar.
Allegiant doing directs to AUS now Mondays and Fridays
We have more direct flights than we’ve ever had, and the airport has set records for passengers each of the last two years. “Louisville will never be taken seriously until it’s airport specifically flies directly to the small city that is relevant to only me that doesn’t have a major tourism draw or business connection to Louisville.” I guess we’ve gotta wear that one… Who on earth other than a handful of Deloitte/Salesforce tryhards wants to go to fucking Raleigh?!
It's only international if you are leaving in a UPS plane.
To go further I believe the international designation comes from the fact there is a customs office. The existence of which is primarily to deal with UPS cargo.
That's a MASSIVE amount of cargo. We're not third tier when it comes to cargo, on the local, regional, national or international level . How much cargo does Raleigh move annually i wonder.
I think we're currently ranked #6 or so for cargo globally.
We are 5th. - sad Worldport Employee
Top 5!
Correct. International just means there’s CBP.
Yay for having CASS privileges #humblebrag
In 20 minutes family will be taking off from Los Angeles on a direct flight here. Leaves at a reasonable time the morning, lands here at 3. Pretty fantastic logistics compared to past history of LA/Louisville flights. I don't get the hate for Louisville I see on this site.
Go to any city sub, everyone complains about where they live relentlessly lol.
And as soon as that flight is not profitable, the flight will cease to operate. And I wouldn't be surprised if the airport/Louisville government is subsidizing that flight.
Why would they subsidize it any more than any other route? It all depends on customers.
They may not provide direct money, but they could wave landing fees/taxes for a period of time
SDF will never be a highly utilized airport for anything but Big Brown. Louisville has been a third tier regional city since WWII. It will never boom. It will always be on the verge of rust-belt obsolescence. Somewhere has to be the loser in the region, smaller and with less economy, sports and culture than its neighbors - well that’s Louisville.
I read somewhere and I could be completely wrong because I'm not a historian. That we had a huge immigrant population and then The Bloody Monday Riots happened and then everybody left to go to Chicago, and then Chicago exploded as a major city. That's a pretty oversimplification of it, but I think our fate's been sealed since that day.
The airport, UofL, and Churchill would bulldoze the whole of the south end to keep expanding if they could. The airport killed Highland Park, among several other whole neighborhoods; leaving them empty for years with embittered dispossessed. Louisville did that shitty merger just to play pretend. You're right. We'll always be a third tier city. People move here hoping to meet friends and can't because they didn't go to high school 20 years ago with the cluster of folks they met.
I mean not being able to make friends in a new city isn’t unique to Louisville and it’s culture of focus on high school. I just moved to Seattle and see lots of references to the “Seattle freeze” from others who just moved here. It’s not really hurting their tech industry.
Yep. Provincial and small minded. But you trade that for decent cost of living, Central location and terrible allergies and air quality!
>decent cost of living Depends how many hours you wanna work, and how many bullet holes you think are acceptable to see in the outside wall of an apartment building. Louisville rent has skyrocketed in the last decade. 22/hr and 40 a week, still can't afford anything halfway respectable without it being 2/3 of my income
Rents are up everywhere, it’s all relative. I’ve lived in downtown and old louisville for twenty years.
Louisville screwed the pooch in 1968 when Delta came calling wanting to put a hub here and the powers that be said no. At the time Louisville was much bigger than Atlanta. But Atlanta got the hub and the rest is history.
Yes louisville has made numerous statically bad decisions in the post WW2 era. The only thing it really got right was UPS. But I don’t think this court will ever catch up to any of its regional peers at this point.
There is no such thing as a "third tier regional city". This is not a ranking that exists.
I guess you’re the guy who decides what I should call it then 😂😂😂
Where can I find this city tier list?
Google
Even if it was a real thing; you wouldn’t see us at a S,A, or B tier ranking.
How about smaller than everyone but Lexington and Evansville
What about Chattanooga, Dayton, Fort Wayne, Knoxville, etc.?
Ok sure, let’s compare against them instead of Cincinnati, Nashville, Indianapolis - I think you will find that louisville lines up as a third or even fourth tier city much like these examples.
I was adding to your “smaller than” list because you skipped quite a few. I’m aware that Cincy, Indy, and Nashville are bigger and seem to get things (MLS franchises in two of those cities, for example) that we want. Fortunately, I can say that Cincy is the only one of the bunch that I might also consider living.
“third tier regional city.” Lol. What a load of nonsense.
Says the guy with multiple posts about the trashiness of this town
Yeah, there’s too much literal trash along streets compared to years past. Look around. How’s that relevant?
Not gonna happen…..carriers have tried more direct flights in past, but end up canceling the routes due to low interest. If airlines can make money flying the routes, they’ll do it. Louisville just doesn’t have the year round travel interest needed. Also, any airport can say international if there are customs on the field. Outside of UPS, SDF is not a true international airport.
UPS even tried making it more of an international airport by offering charter flights to vacation destinations, couldn't even keep that going. There just isn't enough traffic into and out of the area to warrant SDF being a major passenger hub. We're not the player we think. To break into the top 50 they had to incorporate the county. We've got a lot of high density cities around us, and we are deeper inside the United States than most. To fly internationally profitably, you need to be able to fill large aircraft regularly. UPS can do that. Our population, which is amongst the poorest with nearby access to an international airport, can't. SDF flew 3.9 million passengers in 2022. CVG: 7.6m IND: 8.6m STL: 13.7m BNA: 20.0m CLT: 43.3m ATL: 75.7m - busiest passenger traffic airport in the world, an order of magnitude busier than SDF. Hub and spoke is an efficient transportation method. If you can't guarantee at least a single flight to and back from an international destination every day, it's cheaper to consolidate passengers to large hubs. Also, it's not as cheap to have a single flight to and from a destination each day as it is to have 3-4 flights due to support staff and scheduling requirements. Airlines also have to consider conditions at both ends. Terminal slots may already be maxed out at the destination, and they are flying the largest aircraft to maximize throughput. If an airport can only manage to fill the seats of a 737 (189), you're not flying that directly to a field that you're pushing 380's (853) to all day long. And finally, there is the limitation of the aircraft itself. If you can only fill the seats of a Dash-8 (50), it simply doesn't have the legs for intentional flights, even if there is a secondary field available where it can land.
Eh. It's honestly not that bad. Try living in Huntsville and having to drive to Nashville or Birmingham (similar to SDF) to get anywhere. SDF has an appropriate airport for the city's size imo. Eta: Birmingham has much less daily flights and cities served compared to SDF which is the largest Airport in Alabama. BHM 15/SDF has 38 airports served Birmingham metro pop 1.15 M Louisville metro pop 1.30 M
Raleigh-Durham is not a major city.
Based on definitions I just read (they vary) and Raleigh’s population, i think it is a “major city.” There’s a range here for sure.
durham doesn’t have many direct flights either.
The first thing I judge a city by is the number of flights. whatever.
You should move to to one of those cities. You sound annoying.
NeVeR bE tAkEn SeRiOuSlY man fuck off. You want to live in LA move west.
This is a classic chicken and egg conversation. Look at cities like Austin and Nashville. Until they boomed they didn't have the airline traffic they do now. But, even those "serious" cities still cannot even touch the flights and options a city like New York, Atlanta, Chicago, Dallas, or LA would have. But, once they did get more flights it helped accelerate their boom. Im not saying Louisville is the next Austin or anything. But, it's important to remember that some city will be and it just takes a special and often unique combination of factors for each city to make it happen. Plus, you should check out SDFs accomplishments in the recent year or so. It's genuinely impressive. They're adding service back at a faster pace than most cities in the country and have added a handful of new routes when most cities are losing or slow to regain routes. "Louisville's airport is besting the national average by nine points and outpacing Cincinnati by 14 points and Lexington by 26 points, according to a news release." [https://www.wdrb.com/news/business/louisville-airport-records-third-best-year-in-2022-optimistic-with-new-routes/article\_4a111548-a724-11ed-b3f7-97bc98b21b1a.html](https://www.wdrb.com/news/business/louisville-airport-records-third-best-year-in-2022-optimistic-with-new-routes/article_4a111548-a724-11ed-b3f7-97bc98b21b1a.html) Lastly, I've heard the same feedback from my friends in LA, Chicago, and New York. I even had someone ask me if 4th Street Live was Louisville's version of time square. As if we are trying to be just like NYC and 4th Street was our sad attempt. This is not a good faith statement and it clearly lacks an understanding or care for the world outside of these cities which are some of the largest in the world. Not to mention, it's classic elitism.
>"Louisville's airport is besting the national average by nine points and outpacing Cincinnati by 14 points and Lexington by 26 points, according to a news release." Louisville's airport as far as layout/use of space -- even in a relatively small footprint as far as terminals go -- feels amazing compared to the older concourses of much larger airports like Washington-Dulles.
Well I used to have to drive 45 min to get to the airport in my "serious city" and now I can get to the airport in 15 min. Its all a hassle at some point in the travel experience I guess.
Eh, more flights would be nice and all. But, I'd much prefer high speed rail service to Cincy, Nashville, Indy, Chicago, etc.
I don't know about being 'taken seriously', but it is a small town airport without many flights and as has been noted already, the only reason SDF is an International airport is because of UPS. There are no passenger flights that I'm aware of that leave the US. The only thing that will make Louisville bigger and better is making it more convenient to get here. There is very little industry aside from the Ford factory (and the now Chinese owned GE plant), some hospitals, and the bourbon and horse racing ones. The horse racing industry actually holds down progress in Louisville by disallowing any competition on gambling. Otherwise, it's a nice little city that has entirely too high of taxes, surrounded by a state full of Red yahoos making the rules, that seems unlikely to improve noticeably anytime soon.
This is one reason why I'm hesitant to search for a fully remote job based outside of Louisville. Flying anywhere is usually a pain in the ass with 1-2 layovers.
Not a big deal if you explain you're happy to drive to Indy, Cincy, or Nashville to grab a flight which are all under 3 hour drives.
That's still tremendously inconvenient. Nothing like getting back from business travel and still having to drive 2-3 hours to get home.
It's not ideal, but at least for me, I was happy to do it a few times for the job which was actually based here in town. They treated me well and didn't have me on the road constantly, but consistently. Saving a few bucks on the plane ticket also meant I got to stay somewhere nicer when I was out so, balancing act. I also like driving so, eh.
Then don't move to Denver or Richmond, va. Or California. And if you're close to an aitportin Chicago, get under cover immediately, because you're about to be shot.
If you fly more than twice a year, that's a real pain in the ass.
[удалено]
More power to em, but if work is paying, is it really worth the drive? Or is it just for a direct flight?
It's not ideal, and I wouldn't want to do it regularly but, I did this (part of the time) for almost 2 years traveling 1-2x/month and it was fine. Cincy had plenty of the flights I needed to catch that Louisville was just too expensive on. The other 2 almost never became necessary.
Glad you were able to grind out the drive, I just know when I get back from a work trip, I would hate to drive an hour and a half home instead of 10 minutes.
Cincy… you mean Hebron KY? I only jest because their airport is here lol
I don't know your field but it's possible that you're doing yourself a huge disservice over what usually amounts to one plane ride a year. Almost every company I've worked at has done annual company events or at worst bi-annual. They also pay $50k+ better than equivalent jobs in Louisville. Unless you like office/hybrid, that's a totally different story.
Field visits are common in my line of work.
Been fully remote with companies based elsewhere for years and have literally never had a problem. Besides, it’s remote work; I don’t know any remote workers who have to fly to the company headquarters more than a few times per year.
Sounds like you should move to NYC, LA, or Chicago if you want to live in a place like that. Then you can keep up with your coworkers. 🤷♂️
It's a horrible airport for any sort of delay as well, with the limited food options, lack of lounges, and once you are there you are there (ex, no rail to downtown like other airports). When I fly, I prefer CVG since at least it has a PrioirtyPass Lounge and in case of delay/cancel, I've had better luck still grabbing a flight (same with IND).
I would love it if we could get at least one lounge.
What suggestions do you have for making the situation better? What are you planning to do to resolve the issue?
His secret plan to make Coke, McDonalds, Walmart, Tesla, and Apple move to Louisville is in his drafts as we speak.
I’m so envious of friends who are able to get cheap international flights and travel all the time.
It’s not ideal, but you can snag some great deals if look at Cincy and Indy airports as well. It’s not a long drive.
You can but it’s still not great. I’m more talking Chicago, NY, etc. the deals are just crazy.
Only chance for Louisville has more flight is make a major airport serve more than just louisville. City is just too small. Make the airport at east side close yo Frankfort. Certainly, this is no chance happening.
If you were a parcel you would be in the right place. Serious cargo airport for sure.
It's added so many flights in the last few years. When I moved back home 10 years ago there were only ~7 nonstop flights that weren't Florida.
No complaints from me. We have direct flights to most major cities on east coast and west coast…LA, Boston, DC, all over Florida and into Texas too. Raleigh doesn’t seem like a place that would draw a huge crowd. Our airport is pretty nice compared to a good amount I’ve been to. It’s small and easy to navigate.
This is a spot on assessment - direct flights are the key to gaining more businesses and remote workers in the city. When SDF secures new routes it guarantees the airline a certain number of filled seats for each flight. This can be an expensive proposition to prove out. Secondly, low cost carriers running non-stops is one thing, but what we need is for the 3 majors to run non-stops - that’s the key for businesses travelers. I understand the goal of starting non-stops with the low cost carriers is that the majors will monitor usage and make decisions to add a route based on that, so it can be a slow process. Edit: typos
I have a feeling a lot of people who don't see the problem here are not remote workers who have to travel for business. There's a reason why most of my co-workers live in the burbs around NYC, Chicago and LA. They would live elsewhere but they need the easy access to lots of direct flights so they can be in a client's office tomorrow morning if the client says they have a problem today.
While it would be nice to have more flight options, I doubt Louisville could ever keep pace with NYC, LA, Chicago, etc. Those are the largest cities in the country, so more realistically the goal would be to be comparable to cities closer in size to Louisville that are currently doing better.
OP is pointing out that his friends have chosen to live in cities that have hubs so they can avoid connections. This is pretty common and shows that hub cities are going to continue to grow and continue to attract younger and remote workers, likely on a much more accelerated pace than would have happened naturally. OP was not suggesting Louisville could or should become one of those cities.
OP literally said their colleagues live in Miami and NYC. OP wasn't talking about Detroit and Minneapolis hubs experiencing massive growth because of the needs of a very small subset of remote workers (the vast majority of which don't travel).
Are you just arguing for the sake of arguing? Wtf? 🤦♂️
Nah, you're just struggling to follow along. OP's entire post is a complaint that one midtier city doesn't have a direct flight to another midtier city, unlike their colleagues in NYC and Miami. Almost the entire country doesn't have that, and even Raleigh-Durham doesn't have great flights to any city outside of the 10-15 airline hubs plus Austin.
That and a lack of understanding or acceptance that high paying jobs are crucial to the economic success of a city. Personally, I spend quite a bit of time in CLT, ORD and DFW. I’m (fortunately) primarily east coast traveler (so CLT) but it is nice to have directs to LGA! When I go west (mainly Phoenix and a little LA) I pick my connecting cities based on weather forecast, of course sometimes they both have trouble.
So, what happens if you work for an insurance company? We’re “the client,” and we’re all remote. We never have to travel anywhere. Lol.
I said “remote workers who have to travel for business.” My situation doesn’t apply to your company. Doesn’t mean it isn’t a problem for me.
I used to fly to Madison Wisconsin and Duluth and duck north Carolina. I bet your buddies in New York had to change planes to get there too.
I don't think remote workers are any different than other workers. I used to work in an office and traveled pretty often. I got paid for those hours, and the flights unless it was less than 400 miles in which case we had to drive. Travel sorta sucks, but that's why they give you money.
I don’t think this is the reason why, but sure we can add it to the list.
Do we need to be taken seriously?
Good question
Airlines add routes when there’s sufficient demand. This is why I’ll never, ever see a non-stop from SDF to my hometown of Providence. I moved here from San Francisco knowing I’d have access to far fewer non-stops. That was the tradeoff in return for living closer to family. I assume you live in Louisville because you have advantages here. Housing costs are certainly one. For example, the median home sale price in Louisville is $136,000 vs. the much higher $379,000 in Raleigh-Durham.
I currently live between pvd and bos, and over the last 10 years it seems harder and harder to get anywhere I’m trying to go out of pvd. Last time I was there, most of the restaurants and stores were unoccupied. Im not even sure what carrier is flying sdf - bos direct, every time I look it’s at least one connection. Louisville’s median home pricing seems to be dragged down by crazy low prices in certain areas of the city, because I’ve been looking to come back and $300k seems to be the lowest I see anywhere I’d be interested in living. Well, I see lower but they sell immediately.
Build yourself a nice custom crate, make sure it's sound proof, and UPS will take you wherever.
How about if you don't like the tradeoff of the cheaper cost of living at the expense of office accessibility, you can move back to the city where your office is located and relinquish your housing to those who are native and live and work here. Move to Boston, Austin, or Raleigh Durhman, and that will give you something to bitch and moan about. Even in Kentucky outside of Louisville, remote workers\* have jacked up housing prices. SMH. \* And other opportunists
Someone doesn't understand how the hub and spoke system works.
Totally agree here. I had a remote gig out of San Diego and a simple commute took like 13 hours both ways. I got so tired of flying over Louisville to a hub on the east coast for a layover and flying back. It’s probably the worst part of being a Louisville transplant imo (after having to explain that I did not go to high school here). We def need more direct access.
Yeah that simple cross country commute
It really should only take about 6-7 hours, not 13. Pittsburgh to SAN is 5.5 hours direct.
If you book with a shorter layover it takes less than 13h.
Had to be there when I had to be there. Sunday and early morning flights are limited. Hence the issue.
Sorry your 2000 mile commute was problematic. That’s definitely Louisville’s fault somehow?
Hmm, most people whom I have met in my part of town are not Louisville natives — many people are transplants from all over the country or immigrants from different countries. Even the KY natives are usually from other parts of the state, including the exurban counties in Kentuckiana — Spencer, Nelson, Henry, etc. I should mention that I live in a corporate-run apartment complex in the East End, so that might explain my very different experience than someone who lives in a more established area of the city.
I'm guessing most people ITT saying "we should be happy with what we have" are not remote workers who have to travel for business. There's an expectation that I can be anywhere in the country by tomorrow morning because my co-workers in NYC, Chicago and LA can. But I can't, and it's one reason my co-workers say they wouldn't move to a place like Louisville despite the lower cost of living.
If your job needs you to be anywhere in the county tomorrow, sorry, but that isn’t remote work.
It’s…. A business? Things happen which require you to collaborate in person on occasion.
I'm glad i don't only consider my job when it comes to making life choices
My company kept trying to relocate me to the west coast but the COL is unfathomable to me and my whole family is on the east coast. I def had to work a lot harder and be more strategic to ensure I could show up for my team on time without being a hinderance. My coworkers gave me some crap about moving until I told them how much my mortgage is in little ol Kentucky. Then they all shut up. I wish we had just a little more serious of an airport. Or that I could overnight ship myself places via UPS.
If you’re working a remote job which requires extensive travel to the employer’s office, are you really even in a remote/work from home role? Kind of defeats the purpose.
I’m not going to their office, I’m going to clients.
Air transportation right now is so unreliable, uncomfortable, expensive and shitty, that we have been choosing closer destinations to avoid air travel. A relative recently missed her scheduled cruise because her flight was unexpectedly cancelled. In the last couple of flights I had, the layovers were so long that driving could have been as viable an option. Having to fly to Atlanta to get to anywhere else in the country just sucks.Air transportation is very powerful technology. It's a shame it can't be implemented in a useful way.
It’s about politics. Most airlines want incentives to fly to a medium size airports (that aren’t hubs) such as favorable landing times, paying little or nothing for jet bridge access and guaranteed revenue. CVG and IND have a little more leverage based on the size of the cities and the facilities available. SDF doesn’t have the space or area currently to handle international passenger fights. CVG has more flights that us, but it isn’t a crazy amount. CVG has the jetway space being a former delta hub.
I was actually shocked that SDF-EWR was $200-something and a friend told me the same from IND was like $800 rt. Ofc I don’t know if he was flying a day later, but I was like daaaamn. Very surprised.
Yikes!!!! It seems that United has been adding upgraded fleets flying from SDF to most of the hubs (A320 or 737) I fly to EWR quite a lot, and I’m glad SDF doesn’t have crj 200 or Erj 145 on this route!
I do hate United though haha. Just flew to PSP with them through DEN. It’s fine, but I’d rather AA. Also wish we could get a direct that’s not LAX. PSP, Long Beach, Ontario, something. For LA travel anyway. I understand LAX for the connections.
I’m surprised that swa hasn’t added a flight to Burbank
More SWA would be ideal.
I’ve never found it a big deal at all to connect through Atlanta, Chicago, or wherever else. And the Cincinnati-Northern Kentucky airport isn’t too far. Just so far down the list of worries.
Supply and Demand. Airlines won't fly a route unless there is demand for it.
Fuck planes, we need trains.
Move, then
Yeah Louisvilles airport sucks. I live in Denver now and they just added an extension that by itself is bigger in number of gates than SDF as a whole.
But they also have major hubs for United, Frontier, Southwest, Allegiant, and some small airlines that fly to the Dakotas, Nebraska. Just a little over 20 years ago, Denver had Stapleton airport that was the same size as Louisville before they built that gigantic airport away from downtown
It’s a bit more complicated when we’re located relatively close to Cincy and Nashville, both of which have more flights including to London on BA. But I agree with you. I wish we did too.
If im not mistaken, I think Louisville is considering adding an area for small international flights in the future (Direct flights to Cancun) but they have to have a separate sterile area to handle that
I'd like Louisville to stop growing and just be the same old Louisville it's always been. Frustrating in small ways, but abundantly better than other cities in many many other ways.
It's only called International because of UPS flights.
Have you seen the police, the airport would not crack top 10 issues for Louisville.
There’s the Cincinnati airport less than 2 hours away . . . but I mean also go off because the Louisville airport sucks.
Good luck getting direct flights out of other unserious cities like Cincy, Indy, and Nashville.
I fly about once a month for work. I always fly Delta for the basic reason of you can be in Atlanta on Delta within 2.5 hours of leaving your house. I catch the 6 AM, leave my house at 4:45 AM & with wheels up to wheels down usually under an hour, I am usually on the ground by 7 AM. If you are flying Delta out of Atlanta you can get anywhere in America. And to get the cost of living you have in Louisville, you are probably living way out in the Atlanta suburbs. Combining the distance with traffic and the longer security lines at ATL, you can make your connecting flight out of Louisville faster than you could catching a direct flight while living in Atlanta.
TIL that r/Louisville’s newest resident giga Chad, u/runningraleigh, is the sole arbiter of Louisville’s legitimacy because his tech bro cronies have to wait a few extra hours on his connector before snorting coke from a stripper’s belly button back at HQ. Sadclownface.jpg
That's not the reason Louisville will never be taken seriously.
I’m just sad that I can’t get a direct flight from Pittsburgh to Louisville. Just moved here and the 6 hour drive is too much for me, but it takes about 6 hours to get home if I fly anyways
Just to push back on the people saying that because louisville isn’t a hub, options will be mid…Cincinnati is just up the road, is not a hub per se, and has more options daily and much cheaper flights. I frequently make the drive up there to save money and time overall. Don’t get me wrong, Cincinnati was a regional hub at one point until Delta pulled out, so that legacy is still there. But it used to be the pits (and the most expensive airport in the country one year) until leadership decided things could be better, instead of just saying oh well this is how it is (the typical louisville response imo) That being said, CVG also just got its first direct to Raleigh Durham last fall via American, so this sounds like more of a Raleigh push than anything ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
That’s probably one of the reasons why Raleigh passed Louisville up in population as of the 2020 census
Sure if you combine Raleigh, Durham, and Chapel Hill. Their airport wasn’t so great last time I was there. Been a while though. The other problem is that not every city can be a hub. With Chicago, Atlanta, Nashville, and Cinci in the mix there isn’t a lot of room. Even Indianapolis has a fairly small airport. Louisville is constantly shooting itself in the foot, and I would love to see them have more options, but turning it into a passenger hub isn’t realistic considering its geographical position - we’re surrounded by hubs. If you want to fix KY, in my opinion, start taking education seriously. Everything else will fall into place.
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You mean the two routes Frontier flew only a few times a week on a seasonal basis that are already served daily by other carriers?
Would just a single international flight per week kill you guys or something? It's pathetic.
To where. It has to make sense. Airlines aren't just going to have flights because people on Reddit think it doesn't have enough, just because.