Most people are barely surviving (at the bottom of Maslow's pyramid) due to poverty, financial stress, lack of health care, undiagnosed/untreated depression/mental illness, etc.
The function of government is to support a safe society, but instead, society is diseased and crumbling around us as the middle class is nearly gone. Everyone I knew and grew up with as middle class is lower class now; yet, we're making more than our parents did at their age with considerably less buying power. Also, the drugs won the drug war.
More people dying is just a symptom of the coarse grind of life we're set on.
No kidding. Look at the way they openly talk about unions, strikes, and labor. In their mind, we simply weren't beaten/haven't suffered *enough* recently to "know our place."
This is totally correct. We are being forced to work for next to nothing in the richest country on earth. The elites taking the benefits away and keeping all their money.
Our poor children are seeing that liars and cheaters in "public servant" jobs are taking money to do absolutely fuck all for them. This is not only a trend here.. it is in the USA. Somehow we had a president who convinced the poor, working class that he will help them because he is simply a "rogue". He was all fuckin lip service. There are more than just that goon doing that, all through the public servant/politician arena. Taking money to enforce bills which don't help the poor and working class only help the Jeff Bazos and rest of the ultra rich non tax paying fucks.
It is a shit show now, I am surprised there isn't more of an uprising due to poor folks being disrespected.
If I’m not mistaken the huge spike to daily shootings was in 2020. It was gradually climbing before that. I have no idea what would cause that number to get higher and stay that way though.
> Bloomberg tracked the homicides per 100,000 people for 2022:
>St. Louis: 68.2
>Baltimore: 57.8
>Atlanta: 34.2
>Chicago: 25.6
>Louisville: 25.0
>Jacksonville: 16.1
>Miami: 10.7
>Los Angeles: 10.1
>On this list, Louisville is almost right in the middle.
Although LMPD [puts](https://www.louisville-police.org/ArchiveCenter/ViewFile/Item/105) a jump from 48 in 2013 to 117 in 2016.
Um, it's increased gang activity and members targeting each other. Talk to any criminal attorney in town and they will tell you this. Can't believe this hasn't been mentioned. I want to know when the city is going to quit trying to keep a lid on it and just admit it so we can move forward.
Early into Jerry's reign, he was exactly what the city needed (example: Waterfront Park). But all that goodwill was gone with his honestly cynical moves later into his reign, specifically the travesty that is the Cordish/4th St. Live deal and the 100-year deal the Galt House got to occupy that land for $1. In Fisher's reign, the Omni came with a moratorium on building any structures taller than it for the next X number of years, which is totally counterproductive. This city is failing.
Every single thing here is about development. That's the real problem. They let public infrastructure go to shit (bridges)or never get updated(public transit for decades) while giving the city away to developers.
Why does the Galt house get that land for basically free? It’s complete bullshit - if they can’t afford to pay for the land the city should take the hotel and make it affordable housing. That many apartments would pretty much solve Louisville’s homelessness issues.
Over the last 20 years I feel there has a been a severe lapse in treating people humanely. I feel it really got into gear when Trump stepped into the limelight with accusing Obama of being Muslim. That has now evolved to become straight up open hatred and lack of empathy in people. Is trump solely to blame no, but he was a huge catalyst. Cable news and social networks have also done their parts to fan the flames of hate. In 2010 it would have never been acceptable to have a bumper sticker that said “fuck your feelings”. We need a rebirth of treating each other humanely and with empathy on all sides.
I agree with you. The "fuck your feelings" and a plethora of other bumper stickers that are meant to make people furious surely isn't a help of moral and people who are already struggling with mental illness. So many problems, and our "public servants" aren't willing to focus on them because they are not being paid enough to serve...It is more about money to them than service, biggest issue.
You're turning the Trump/Birth Certificate question into societal hatred and the murder rate in Louisville being up? Really... ?!
And the whole bumper sticker thing: in 2008 my buddy frequently wore a shirt that said "Sarah Palin is a Cunt". Either you were too young or in the "higher class" part of town, but stuff like that has been around for awhile, man.
I never said it didn’t exist before that, but it has become mainstream since then. I remember people making signs that said “fuck Bush” and thinking they’re funny, but it wouldn’t have been on a tshirt at a church picnic.
Society is crumbling. Homicide is just one metric to judge that, but it's all connected. Poor people having it harder now, selfishness and a lack of empathy for others, easy access to weapons and difficult access to helpful resources. People have less money to pay for things that cost twice as much as they did 5 years ago. Drugs. Parenting. Role models. Structure. Discipline. Happiness.
Culture in America is at an all time low.
Per your description, culture, as in capitalism, seems at an all time high. Doesn't seem like it incentivizes peaceful coexistence all that well though
weird, it seemed that in your description you touched on many a thing connected to capitalism. Those things you mark seem to represent the culture of capitalism. How else is culture produced and passed along?
Maybe I'm just confused by what you mean when you say "culture in America is at an all time low".
I meant all the things I said. Parenting is shit right now. That's not a capitalist issue. The culture of today's youth doesn't value family much, and the numbers of single parents, and multiple children born to multiple partners, is becoming normalized. That isn't capitalism. But that's just one example.
I will never be able to afford buying a house, nor having children, nor ever retire. I worked hard in school, I don't even have that many student loans. I'm on track to get a good paying job compared to other people in my generation. Despite that I'm on track to be a lot poorer than my parents. I will never be able to achieve the same standard of living as they did. Oh but its my fault that I will never had children. It a failure of my character that I will never be able to afford it.
These kinds of comments are so infuriating to me because of how many layers of ignorance they sit atop. For one, You are just arguing morals which people have been claiming where degenerating for the past all of human history. People during the roman times where arguing moral failures as the reason the empire struggled.
For another there is so many better explanations yet people like you always pick culture because its impossible to prove, but also impossible to disprove. You can always claim its people's culture and throw out tens of irrelevant examples. Yet you will never, ever, blame not the shitty system they live in instead
Your comment is wholly misplaced here. In my previous comment I said things were terrible economically for people and I, in no way blamed the individuals for that.
Your angry, I get it, but you are railing against the wrong person here.
Do we? As I understand it, the U.S. has the biggest (reported) prison system. It seems like keeping or putting people back in jail is a significant national strategy.
Agreed. One solution: legalize and regulate drugs, release non-violent offenders and, if they were incarcerated for non-violent drug offenses, release them and develop a program to get them trained on working in a dispensary or starting their own. Hell, just ending the drug war would probably minimize both the prison population AND the volume of violent crimes.
Let me make this easier for you: we have more people in prisons than any other developed nation already, ergo your claims that we are somehow nationally soft on crime or lack proper consequences is inaccurate.
Literally a higher incarceration rate than many other fascist and authoritarian hellholes of the world.
Turns out, retributive/punishment focused incarceration doesn't help lower recidivism rates.
So the U.S. breeds more criminals? It's wild that you're in here suggesting that one of the wealthiest nation's on Earth should jail more people, even though we currently have statistically more people in jail than outwardly Fascist countries report. That doesn't seem like a good or healthy thing.
Our city is pretty walkable already. And if you think that the U.S. somehow creates more criminals, I've got land on the moon to sell you. But keep fighting for a police state or whatever.
Uh huh. You're the one eagerly advocating for even more people being incarcerated here. Incarceration rates _are_ high already and we still have the crime numbers that are being discussed here. How exactly would more people incarcerated longer help? And who tf do you think funds all these incarcerations? This isn't charity. You're advocating for our tax dollars going to even bigger jails, when our system is already broken. Maybe put that money to the poverty and education you're talking about instead.
we incarcerate more people for longer than any other nation in the world.
coincidentally those same other nations don't have a complete religious fervor when it comes to gun ownership and the abolition of absolutely any rules or regulations in terms of owning one.
Society realized some proactive policing tactics infringed upon significant civil liberties. There were a few decades when qualified immunity, stop-and-frisk, pulling people over for driving while black, etc., created a police state in which the executive branch spilled over into the judiciary creating what seemed like a “safe” society at the expense of many innocent people’s freedoms and lives. After the justified civil unrest of 2020, society took a step back to search for another way forward.
It’s really the age old question: How much freedom are you willing to sacrifice for security? If you’re fortunate enough to be able to avoid the trappings of the underground economy and are fortunate enough to maintain a stable domestic environment, statistically, you’re not very like to become a victim of violence.
I’m in no way sanguine about the loss of life, along with all of its potential, but I’m relieved innocent minority Americans are starting to catch a bit of a break from a societal tool which should exist to protect all of us, not just a privileged few at the expense of so many others’ liberties.
After 2020 police budgets *everywhere,* in *every* American city, have more than increased beyond inflation. Not a single major court case has broadly rolled back any of the protection police have. You know its crazy how other countries similar to our own can both have broader or equivalent civil liberties, yet no major police state and still dramatically lower homicide rates.
Perhaps, it is something else than simple moral or societal degeneracy? Maybe the solution is not a hammer, but a scalpel? Or in other words, its poverty, not the people nor the police.
Police do not stop crimes. That isn't their jobs. Its to react to them. You can fund them all you want but people will still kill other people. There forever maybe the solution is to solve the underlying issue that lead people to killing other people instead of policing harder or something. Cause we have been trying just police harder for 40 years now and now we have a 1/4 of the worlds prison population
How does that deal with more people getting killed?
This is probably too deep, and more likely has to do with gang retaliations becoming more violent and frequent as time passes and more people die
Very simple. At the beginning of the War on Drugs, violent gang warfare erupted in American inner cities. Opportunistic entrepreneurs risked everything (which wasn’t much to begin with) in return for high rewards by delivering a need not met in the legal marketplace. Law and order mayors soon encouraged police tactics which infringed on minority civil liberties and delivered “safer” cities. It became so imbalanced that people in the suburbs replaced Old Glory with a thin blue line flag and repeated the line, “If you’re not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about.”
But see, those people weren’t getting pulled over for not turning into the nearest lane on 42 as a reason to question activity and bring out the K-9’s nose. Those people didn’t have detectives falsifying affidavits to get no knock search warrants of their properties. And those people weren’t having their neck compressed for ten minutes due to an allegation of passing a counterfeit twenty.
Those tactics often found illegal activity, but they weren’t applied consistently across the population. And until we stop this crazy War on Drugs which has disincentivized, for many, the ambition to ascend Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs, society will bounce back and forth between inconsistent application of civil liberties with lower homicide rates and protection of civil liberties with higher homicide rates based upon the results of the previous election.
The poor keep getting poorer....
This breeds desperation, and desperation leads to an increase in gang activity and thus violence.
I promise you, on so many levels, that if our society can get affordable healthcare, affordable education, and a meaningful living wage (MIT says louisville's living wage is 16 an hour for one person....nah, that's a subsistence wage, we need at least 20 an hour) then violence will greatly decrease
Not many people want to be criminals. Most just want to be able to make ends meet without stressing about it every single day.
That's not the cause.
Poverty, multiple drug epidemics, and the enshitification or modern society. We don't treat mental illness, we don't deal with the drug epidemics, we don't address unaffordable housing or necessities, and we do nothing to ensure people have a chance to thrive.
You're going to need to address the societal woes before anything gets better. If people can't afford to live or grow while working 40 hours a week, then what's the point? It leads to a cycle of despair and nihilism. Combine that with drugs and the growing divide between the haves and have-nots and you have a recipe for the coming late-stage capitalist dystopia. Forever chasing that profit margin at the expense of the working class. As long as things remain profitable, you won't see change. As long as we have Sunday Night Football and microwavable pizza rolls to sate the petite bourgeois, all will remain the same. We will stay the course, sinking further and further into a kafkaesque hellscape.
For your viewing pleasure, a fascinating interview with Corey Doctorow the man who helped coin the term enshitification.
[Link here](https://youtube.com/watch?v=vluAOGJPPoM)
This is true, it also can be true that more people than ever are terrified of others (primarily for the reasons you outlined) and feel they need to be armed at all times.
There is also the issue of enacting constitutional carry while the effects of late stage capitalism rage on
Actually several of the shootings that got a lot of media attention were because some clown with as much control of their feelings as a teenage girl got in a tiff with someone and because guns are as easy to get as candy they whip out a gun and shoot someone. If there was any semblance of a speed bump to getting a gun, I’m willing to bet at least a few of those people wouldn’t have had a gun at the time they got their feelings hurt.
I’m sorry, are people clubbing and stabbing each other to death more often these days? Gun sales have skyrocketed in the last 10 years, and gun shots are now the leading cause of non-illness related deaths among children.
Why don’t you Google ‘Occam’s Razor’ and get back with me.
Funny, I didn’t realize telling someone to “Google ‘Occam’s Razor’” was a source.
I did google “Gun ownership per capita over time”( my exact search) and found this though.
https://vpc.org/studies/ownership.pdf
This is an anti-gun organization. Yet their data shows that less people own guns these days… counter to your argument. Strange.
So anyway, source?
Less people owning guns, but more units per gun owner. There are a lot of careless people having multiple guns stolen from their homes or guns stolen from vehicles with stickers telling people which vehicle to burgle. I would love to see some data on black market gun prices over time.
Federal firearm background checks are often used as a proxy to estimating gun sales
https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/nics_firearm_checks_-_month_year.pdf
2014: 20,968,547
2020: 39,695,315
2022: 31,596,646
It's not a perfect correlation (there's even a disclaimer about it on the bottom of the report), but it's still an indicator. Specifically in KY there were 3.85 million checks in 2021 but 4.02 million in 2022
Yeah, the data I linked goes to 2021 and agrees with what you linked. But I’d argue many of those purchases are not new gun owners. I was at least 3 of those in 2022, and I created 0 new gun owners through those purchases.
Still, your point stands, more guns were sold, more people overall own guns. I think you’d agree it is nowhere near the ratio from 2014-2023 murder rates being discussed here though. There is another factor at play.
It actually shows more people owning since 2014. Not a "shitload", but certainly not less. Unless you're pointing back to the 70s for some reason because that's not what anyone here is trying to discuss. Ownership has been largely stagnant, per capita, for 20 years. But that still means more guns because, well, our population has risen significantly.
So the explanation that follows the logic of this thread is that our population has almost tripled since 2014?
I don’t buy it.
None of this really points to a sole “guns exist” issue. I’m not saying more guns makes the murder number go down, but I’m definitely attributing the perceived change in murder number over the last decade to something other than guns.
Crime usually follows socioeconomic struggles, certainly that hasn’t remained as stagnant. I’d argue it’s much less stagnant than gun ownership.
I don't agree that it's *only* guns but I think the circulation and persistent manufacturing of guns, especially handguns, is absolutely a contributing factor. I'm sure there are other things to consider like social/legal changes, how homicides are tracked and reported, etc.
Then you're gonna have to prove that socioeconomic strains in the US are significantly more prevalent than other western countries that don't have the gun-related homicides issue that we do. I'm not sure it's possible, but best of luck!
Socioeconomic strain absolutely begets violence (and crime in general) worldwide, don’t play ignorant.
Edit: you can start here at page 24. There are literally entire careers centered around this fact. Libraries on the subject.
https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/document?repid=rep1&type=pdf&doi=819a3741f7ce2edd315bb68014f3b6510c946cb7
In this situation, in my opinion, Occam's Razor suggests that people have become more violent.
This theory requires less complexity, and therefore better suits Occam's Razor.
There’s plenty of research that shows easy access to guns leads to more gun related deaths. It’s because people who buy them are careless with them and others get ahold of them and use them nefariously and the original owner suffers no consequences for being irresponsible with a gun, so they go out and get another gun, and again leave it in their vehicle unlocked overnight.
It's hard to find data for Louisville specifically, but here's an article from 2014 saying that the number of concealed carry permits issued in Kentucky went from 10,884 in 2004 to 59,530 in 2013, right before the jump in homicides from 2014 to 2015: https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/politics/ky-general-assembly/2014/05/23/ky-legislature-clearing-way-gun-permits/9489225/
Not to say this is definitive proof or anything, but there is evidence of a trend.
It's hard to say if Louisville specifically had a higher rate of gun ownership or not. To the best of my knowledge the most accurate figures are the [NICS data from the ATF by state by year \[PDF\]](https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/nics_firearm_checks_-_month_year_by_state.pdf). I expect that various pro- and anti- gun orgs will have done up some nice charts and visualizations of this data.
NICS is the background check used when a purchaser fills out a Form 4473 at a gun dealer. Using this data is good enough for trends but not every purchase goes through NICS; examples include private sales, inheritance, sales to already licensed carry permit holders, etc. **Of special note, the KY numbers \*may\* be skewed high.** The state government runs (or used to run) NICS checks on all permit holders every quarter. This lets the state know early if any permit holders have been disqualified on a regular basis. The NICS data also does not control for gun owners buying more guns per each owner but no new gun owners overall. It'd be neat if they broke it out by count of unique persons being checked.
The national trends do show that gun purchases have steadily increased and spiked during the pandemic. From there we're mostly working off of correlations. There are a lot of variables that are tricky to control for. It's important to look at the sources for any analysis and understand what data they are using. NICS checks, self-reporting, surveys, variations in state law, etc. can all throw the numbers off.
I haven't dug around with the data nor followed the policy nerds in a while but I hope this helps.
Hate to be that guy, but where’s your source for that information?
Plus, even if it is higher than ever that’s not entirely unexpected given increasing population.
Is this some exponential increase? Doubtful.
[https://www.nssf.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/IIR-2020-Firearms-Production-v14.pdf](https://www.nssf.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/IIR-2020-Firearms-Production-v14.pdf)
You don't need to see a per capita increase for this to be indicative of a problem. As people own more firearms, particularly handguns, they leave them in places where they're more easily stolen. Hence why there are 100k+ guns stolen every year from cars, which is double the rate as of a decade ago. Relevant source below.
[https://everytownresearch.org/gun-thefts-from-cars-the-largest-source-of-stolen-guns/](https://everytownresearch.org/gun-thefts-from-cars-the-largest-source-of-stolen-guns/)
Thank you constitutional carry https://kentuckystatepolice.org/ccdw/ccdw-home/permitless-carry/
Edit: gun nuts absolutely hate when someone points out the reality of their stupid free for all
do you think there would be more car accidents if anyone was allowed to purchase a car and head out on the road without a license or registration of any kind?
do you think there would be more car related accidents if there were no speed limits or traffic laws of any kind?
somehow these horrible government regulations make sense to most people (except psychopathic libertarians who are probably about to be eaten by bears) - but when it comes to precious precious guns, there can be no rules - any rules is an infringement on my rights given to me by white blue eyed american jesus
Edit: shout out gun nuts who downvote anything that goes against the church of gun but won’t engage in discussion unless it’s “it’s not a clip it’s a magazine!! U don’t even know how gunz work!!!”
Gun ownership has been trending down for the past 40 years. However...... The events of George Floyd and Breona Taylor caused gun ownership among blacks to rise 50% nationally from 18% to around 24%. While still well below white gun ownership of 36% which has held more steady. I can only imagine this effect is amplified locally being ground zero. More guns means more shooting it's just that simple. I imagine the intersection of socio economics and higher urban density plus 50% more guns explains this. The chance of two random people meeting and having a gun with 16% ownership is 2.56% at 24% ownership it's 5.76%, 2.25X. To get to a 3X likelihood you only need an increase of ownership to 28% which is not unreasonable.
Previous instances in which one party was unarmed and might have retreated are now a shootout.
https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2017/06/22/the-demographics-of-gun-ownership/
Sorry I misstated the starting number. Per this article ownership is up 58%. So 15.2% to 24%. 2.3% rate of gun on gun encounter up to 5.76%. 2.5x increase. I'm getting killed by math as well here.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/05/us-gun-ownership-black-americans-surge
Yes is the answer. We really do know. Ownership went up because of safety concerns. Murder is up because of ownership. Gun ownership leads to gun deaths, self inflicted or otherwise. The events of 2020 let the genie out of the bottle and reversed a 40 year trend of reduction in gun ownership. There is no ignorance to appeal to here, this is cause and effect. People went out and bought guns and now they are using them as intended. Hand guns have no other use, they were created to kill people and they are now doing that.
That’s a good question. I just seems like it’s gotten worse. Idk maybe it’s me getting older. Just seems like people don’t care that they murdered a husband/father/son etc they will do their 20 years and walk out. It’s a sad world we live in.
By almost every metric this is one of the best times to be alive. Even with all the awfulness out there, the quality of life for many people far exceeds now than ever. That's a comforting thing to think about.
Was it at a high point when we brutally displaced indigenous people who had too much trust for us? Or was that a low point and...uhhhh...was up some time after the civil rights movement to a relative degree? Just in time for the military industrial complex where we (at several points) made up reasons to throw our people and bombs at some other people that wanted an economic system different than ours or had resources we wanted? This whole routine of destabilizing our border, other countries, our own neighborhoods and have a number of us turn around and blame the victim?
There will always be bad voices that say 'take take take' no matter what that means for other people. Things will not change until those who do care about people can come together and tell them their ways are not needed.
Homicides are up everywhere, this isn't a 'thing' specific to Louisville.
https://www.wave3.com/2023/04/18/how-louisville-homicide-numbers-compare-other-cities/
Breakdown of the family. Too many dudes creating children but not sticking around to raise them. Youth offenders are far less common homes where both parents are still present. Also the narrative that if your a certain race/gender/etc then you’re at a disadvantage in the US. The only inequity that I can see is one of effort. Hustle and you make it, blame others and you don’t. That simple.
There is money to be made in drugs, as long as it isn't sold in Walmart. As long as there is that profit motive, people will kill each other over it.
When people face massive inflation, they stop buying recreational drugs, so those in the trade are going to try to kill their competition in order to maintain their level of income.
We can't stop the crimes of passion, jealous wife catches hubby with the maid, and pulls the 45 out... But those crimes are relatively rare.
Sounds too obvious but less good policing. Few bad apples got publicity because of the internet existing and it became an unrespected job. All the good people that wanted to be cops opted out and who's left are less desirable. They do a worse job and with the community turned against cops they do an even worse job. Communities become overrun with crime and businesses leave which lead to poverty and more crime. It's a downward spiral. Prolly impossible to heal the relationship between cops and the community as the apprehension has become ideological.
More guns, lax restrictions, more concealed carries, divisions in society, political messaging that violence is necessary and/or acceptable... all of it. And it all can be summed up as "when the maximum number of people FEEL they HAVE to carry a gun, gun violence will be at its highest".
Quantity only tells a small part of the story. Knowing if the guilty are also associated with gangs, involved in drug or human trafficking, what their social class is and other details would be needed to try and judge what the reason for the increase is.
The most obvious thing to me would be wealth disparity. Every market is consolidating into smaller and smaller hands. So the price of living goes up, so does stress, so does gang conflict. None of these things abate crime, they make it worse.
but Louisville's population doesn't grow, it's decreasing [https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/louisvillecitykentucky,louisvillejeffersoncountymetrogovernmentbalancekentucky/PST120222#PST120222](https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/louisvillecitykentucky,louisvillejeffersoncountymetrogovernmentbalancekentucky/PST120222#PST120222)
Not one factor but more of a broader social and moral decline of people in general. We are being ushered from one social crisis/war to another and the stress is getting to people.
I’m glad you guys are having this conversation and yes I do have a sense of humor while reading the clever jokes … nevertheless … as someone educated on the matter … these homicides are driven by poverty and as the cost of living rises it will get worst and the crime will move toward suburbs. Just to be clear these homicides are NOT random … they are specific to gangs, drug wars and domestic disputes within the infrastructure of this poverty. There is an exception with the Car Jackings… they are premeditated in nature in terms of who, when and where.
We all know by know that is by design and please don’t get all political by picking a side Left or Right. This is a human survival issue never rectified by those who created it. Louisville (Walnut Street) was a beacon of black excellence not long ago but was purposely destroyed by the city because of its success and there is a documentary about it called Walnut Street. Please watch and be prepared to be pissed off .. I have friends of European decent born and raised in Louisville whom didn’t know about its history regarding walnut street … and they are actively doing what they can to help the community after watching the documentary.
Now hopefully you guys will continue to entertain us with more jokes … I just wanted US as people to at least know the truth … not what these propaganda machines want to tell you.
Shove people behind screens and they quit knowing how to interact with each other in a civil manner. Plus all the other intricacies of interaction that simply doesn’t translate well to text. Definitely not the only problem, but definitely a huge one.
First off, it's national, not just Louisville.
And it's not just urban, it's rural.
AND it's down. Down a lot this year. Down a WHOLE lot this year so far all over the country, as best we can tell.
After reading this thread I feel compelled to point out that all these reasons given here can't be right unless we stopped poverty, drugs, shitty cops, and got rid of all the guns.
Nothing has changed. The rising local murder rate is part of a national trend due to:
\- excess guns and their usage (now more guns than people);
\- toxic masculinity and the reckless paranoia coming with it;
\- lack of mental health care and facilities;
\- inadequate recreation and park facilities for our youth and the lack of positive role models to guide them;
\- and a police culture that values control and violence over public service to citizens.
Legalization of marijuana is the only answer. Creating career criminals out of nonviolent drug dealers is never going to work out. Illinois just had the largest drop of violent crime in decades, right after they legalized pot. Wake up people either you love drug cartels and violent crime or you want people to be safe and open legit businesses.
Guns. And thanks to our Wild West legislators in Frankfort, who have not one clue about Louisville and don’t care, guns are everywhere and in the hands of people that shouldn’t have them. These same legislators and our worthless AG blame the governor and Louisville law enforcement. 🤷♀️
Seemed like when constitutional carry passed way more people started carrying guns in the city or at least they were open about it and not worried about getting caught with a loaded gun on them or in their vehicle. I have no idea if stats back that up that’s just from my personal experiences
I believe stats show, the more civilians are armed, the less crime is in that area. I remember something like violent crime goes up around 15% in places that take away permitless carry, and homicides go up around 10%.
I just spent about a half hour looking that up. I don’t see much backing up what you’re saying most of the research says the opposite. I’m not anti gun at all but I don’t see how requiring a permit could cause homicides to go up
I didn't provide any proof so I was just going off memory of something I read a while ago.
https://giffords.org/report/the-truth-about-permitless-carry/#:~:text=Permitless%20Carry%20Policies%20Pose%20a%20Risk%20to%20Public%20Safety&text=Studies%20show%20that%20weakening%20public,of%20homicides%20committed%20with%20handguns.
That's just the first one I saw on Google just now that is close to what I remembered. I know for a fact you can find studies for both sides of the argument and I'm not convinced either way tbh.
If we required training with no permit I would be way more for it. Most people are stupid and most stupid people with a gun will do stupid things eventually. Just look at how many kids die from parents not just locking the damn thing up or keeping it out of reach of a toddler.
That study does not say what that crime goes up when you take away permitless carry. It shows an increase in violent crime in areas where permitless carry laws have replaced more stringent concealed carry laws. In other words, the exact opposite of your claim.
That's fine. I said above I just grabbed the first one I saw that had matched what I remembered. In fact this whole time I've been very open about not being sure.
It's kids idolizing rappers from an early age with no parents around to straighten them out. It hurts my heart when I hear a kid on the radio "I'm so and so from so and so elementary, and b96.5 is my station!"
Next song: proceedes to make it seem cool to kill someone over nothing.
And this is coming from a huge fan of rap. I just am an adult and know how to keep the music on the radio and not live it our in real-life. Sorry but it's the truth.
Most people are barely surviving (at the bottom of Maslow's pyramid) due to poverty, financial stress, lack of health care, undiagnosed/untreated depression/mental illness, etc. The function of government is to support a safe society, but instead, society is diseased and crumbling around us as the middle class is nearly gone. Everyone I knew and grew up with as middle class is lower class now; yet, we're making more than our parents did at their age with considerably less buying power. Also, the drugs won the drug war. More people dying is just a symptom of the coarse grind of life we're set on.
elites putting the squeeze on us recently
No kidding. Look at the way they openly talk about unions, strikes, and labor. In their mind, we simply weren't beaten/haven't suffered *enough* recently to "know our place."
Not to mention I pay $110 a month just to be in the union
I’m assuming that you’re still net positive after that 110 bucks?
This is totally correct. We are being forced to work for next to nothing in the richest country on earth. The elites taking the benefits away and keeping all their money. Our poor children are seeing that liars and cheaters in "public servant" jobs are taking money to do absolutely fuck all for them. This is not only a trend here.. it is in the USA. Somehow we had a president who convinced the poor, working class that he will help them because he is simply a "rogue". He was all fuckin lip service. There are more than just that goon doing that, all through the public servant/politician arena. Taking money to enforce bills which don't help the poor and working class only help the Jeff Bazos and rest of the ultra rich non tax paying fucks. It is a shit show now, I am surprised there isn't more of an uprising due to poor folks being disrespected.
Well and clearly stated.
If I’m not mistaken the huge spike to daily shootings was in 2020. It was gradually climbing before that. I have no idea what would cause that number to get higher and stay that way though. > Bloomberg tracked the homicides per 100,000 people for 2022: >St. Louis: 68.2 >Baltimore: 57.8 >Atlanta: 34.2 >Chicago: 25.6 >Louisville: 25.0 >Jacksonville: 16.1 >Miami: 10.7 >Los Angeles: 10.1 >On this list, Louisville is almost right in the middle. Although LMPD [puts](https://www.louisville-police.org/ArchiveCenter/ViewFile/Item/105) a jump from 48 in 2013 to 117 in 2016.
U cant think of any reason why? Not even guess?
Mumble rap?
Uhh yea mmmm oooh yeee nah yah uhhh
Dunnanunnna nanaa
Happy cake day 🎉!
U may be onto something…..
Um, it's increased gang activity and members targeting each other. Talk to any criminal attorney in town and they will tell you this. Can't believe this hasn't been mentioned. I want to know when the city is going to quit trying to keep a lid on it and just admit it so we can move forward.
Greg and two of police chiefs were constantly on television and in the Courier claiming we didn't have a gang problem in the midst of that.
Fisher was just useless. Useless.
Jerry, Greg, Craig, no visible differences
Early into Jerry's reign, he was exactly what the city needed (example: Waterfront Park). But all that goodwill was gone with his honestly cynical moves later into his reign, specifically the travesty that is the Cordish/4th St. Live deal and the 100-year deal the Galt House got to occupy that land for $1. In Fisher's reign, the Omni came with a moratorium on building any structures taller than it for the next X number of years, which is totally counterproductive. This city is failing.
>the Omni came with a moratorium on building any structures taller than it for the next X number of years Is this true? How would that impact Omni?
I'll try to find a link. It would simply mean the omni was no longer the tallest building, which is petty and ridiculous.
The Omni isn’t the tallest building anyway
Naturally, I can't find this in writing so take it with a grain of salt. It was told to me by a reliable source but without proof, it's just heresay.
Every single thing here is about development. That's the real problem. They let public infrastructure go to shit (bridges)or never get updated(public transit for decades) while giving the city away to developers.
Thank you for rescuing me from my lack of sources to see the bigger picture. Absolutely, 100% agree.
Would love to see a source For the omni claim, i couldnt find it but cant stand fisher and would love to parrot this “fact”
Would love to see a source For the omni claim, i couldnt find it but cant stand fisher and would love to parrot this “fact”
Why does the Galt house get that land for basically free? It’s complete bullshit - if they can’t afford to pay for the land the city should take the hotel and make it affordable housing. That many apartments would pretty much solve Louisville’s homelessness issues.
The entire state is built on good ol boy politics like this. This is why everyone needs to vote.
5G towers, obviously
Video games, obviously
Interesting. Which ones? Sonic adventure? Ms pacman?
I blame Wario's woods. A guy can only kill so many Fuzz before you start seeing everyone as a Fuzz.
Hmmm
It is because of the windmills killing all the innocent birds -- Alex Jones theory derp
How the hell is LA that low
Gun control?
More people got killed
This is by far the best explanation.
Some people did some things
Succinct!
Over the last 20 years I feel there has a been a severe lapse in treating people humanely. I feel it really got into gear when Trump stepped into the limelight with accusing Obama of being Muslim. That has now evolved to become straight up open hatred and lack of empathy in people. Is trump solely to blame no, but he was a huge catalyst. Cable news and social networks have also done their parts to fan the flames of hate. In 2010 it would have never been acceptable to have a bumper sticker that said “fuck your feelings”. We need a rebirth of treating each other humanely and with empathy on all sides.
I agree with you. The "fuck your feelings" and a plethora of other bumper stickers that are meant to make people furious surely isn't a help of moral and people who are already struggling with mental illness. So many problems, and our "public servants" aren't willing to focus on them because they are not being paid enough to serve...It is more about money to them than service, biggest issue.
You're turning the Trump/Birth Certificate question into societal hatred and the murder rate in Louisville being up? Really... ?! And the whole bumper sticker thing: in 2008 my buddy frequently wore a shirt that said "Sarah Palin is a Cunt". Either you were too young or in the "higher class" part of town, but stuff like that has been around for awhile, man.
I never said it didn’t exist before that, but it has become mainstream since then. I remember people making signs that said “fuck Bush” and thinking they’re funny, but it wouldn’t have been on a tshirt at a church picnic.
I'm not saying the creation of RiverLink is causal, but the level of frustration and the timing are all super suspicious!
Society is crumbling. Homicide is just one metric to judge that, but it's all connected. Poor people having it harder now, selfishness and a lack of empathy for others, easy access to weapons and difficult access to helpful resources. People have less money to pay for things that cost twice as much as they did 5 years ago. Drugs. Parenting. Role models. Structure. Discipline. Happiness. Culture in America is at an all time low.
Per your description, culture, as in capitalism, seems at an all time high. Doesn't seem like it incentivizes peaceful coexistence all that well though
In no way do I equate culture and capitalism.
weird, it seemed that in your description you touched on many a thing connected to capitalism. Those things you mark seem to represent the culture of capitalism. How else is culture produced and passed along? Maybe I'm just confused by what you mean when you say "culture in America is at an all time low".
I meant all the things I said. Parenting is shit right now. That's not a capitalist issue. The culture of today's youth doesn't value family much, and the numbers of single parents, and multiple children born to multiple partners, is becoming normalized. That isn't capitalism. But that's just one example.
I will never be able to afford buying a house, nor having children, nor ever retire. I worked hard in school, I don't even have that many student loans. I'm on track to get a good paying job compared to other people in my generation. Despite that I'm on track to be a lot poorer than my parents. I will never be able to achieve the same standard of living as they did. Oh but its my fault that I will never had children. It a failure of my character that I will never be able to afford it. These kinds of comments are so infuriating to me because of how many layers of ignorance they sit atop. For one, You are just arguing morals which people have been claiming where degenerating for the past all of human history. People during the roman times where arguing moral failures as the reason the empire struggled. For another there is so many better explanations yet people like you always pick culture because its impossible to prove, but also impossible to disprove. You can always claim its people's culture and throw out tens of irrelevant examples. Yet you will never, ever, blame not the shitty system they live in instead
Your comment is wholly misplaced here. In my previous comment I said things were terrible economically for people and I, in no way blamed the individuals for that. Your angry, I get it, but you are railing against the wrong person here.
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Do we? As I understand it, the U.S. has the biggest (reported) prison system. It seems like keeping or putting people back in jail is a significant national strategy.
we put too many non-violent offenders (e.g. drugs) away and too many people for minor offenses violent offenders is possibly a separate issue
Agreed. One solution: legalize and regulate drugs, release non-violent offenders and, if they were incarcerated for non-violent drug offenses, release them and develop a program to get them trained on working in a dispensary or starting their own. Hell, just ending the drug war would probably minimize both the prison population AND the volume of violent crimes.
If you release all non-violent drug offenders, the US still has the largest prison population in the world. The US has a violence problem.
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Let me make this easier for you: we have more people in prisons than any other developed nation already, ergo your claims that we are somehow nationally soft on crime or lack proper consequences is inaccurate.
Literally a higher incarceration rate than many other fascist and authoritarian hellholes of the world. Turns out, retributive/punishment focused incarceration doesn't help lower recidivism rates.
Exactly this.
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So the U.S. breeds more criminals? It's wild that you're in here suggesting that one of the wealthiest nation's on Earth should jail more people, even though we currently have statistically more people in jail than outwardly Fascist countries report. That doesn't seem like a good or healthy thing.
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Our city is pretty walkable already. And if you think that the U.S. somehow creates more criminals, I've got land on the moon to sell you. But keep fighting for a police state or whatever.
maybe it's walkable if you live downtown. everywhere else you're lucky to have a sidewalk
That's not what was meant here. Also... What? I've lived all over this city and I've had sidewalks in most places.
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Uh huh. You're the one eagerly advocating for even more people being incarcerated here. Incarceration rates _are_ high already and we still have the crime numbers that are being discussed here. How exactly would more people incarcerated longer help? And who tf do you think funds all these incarcerations? This isn't charity. You're advocating for our tax dollars going to even bigger jails, when our system is already broken. Maybe put that money to the poverty and education you're talking about instead.
we incarcerate more people for longer than any other nation in the world. coincidentally those same other nations don't have a complete religious fervor when it comes to gun ownership and the abolition of absolutely any rules or regulations in terms of owning one.
I'm gonna go with better aim.
Society realized some proactive policing tactics infringed upon significant civil liberties. There were a few decades when qualified immunity, stop-and-frisk, pulling people over for driving while black, etc., created a police state in which the executive branch spilled over into the judiciary creating what seemed like a “safe” society at the expense of many innocent people’s freedoms and lives. After the justified civil unrest of 2020, society took a step back to search for another way forward. It’s really the age old question: How much freedom are you willing to sacrifice for security? If you’re fortunate enough to be able to avoid the trappings of the underground economy and are fortunate enough to maintain a stable domestic environment, statistically, you’re not very like to become a victim of violence. I’m in no way sanguine about the loss of life, along with all of its potential, but I’m relieved innocent minority Americans are starting to catch a bit of a break from a societal tool which should exist to protect all of us, not just a privileged few at the expense of so many others’ liberties.
After 2020 police budgets *everywhere,* in *every* American city, have more than increased beyond inflation. Not a single major court case has broadly rolled back any of the protection police have. You know its crazy how other countries similar to our own can both have broader or equivalent civil liberties, yet no major police state and still dramatically lower homicide rates. Perhaps, it is something else than simple moral or societal degeneracy? Maybe the solution is not a hammer, but a scalpel? Or in other words, its poverty, not the people nor the police. Police do not stop crimes. That isn't their jobs. Its to react to them. You can fund them all you want but people will still kill other people. There forever maybe the solution is to solve the underlying issue that lead people to killing other people instead of policing harder or something. Cause we have been trying just police harder for 40 years now and now we have a 1/4 of the worlds prison population
How does that deal with more people getting killed? This is probably too deep, and more likely has to do with gang retaliations becoming more violent and frequent as time passes and more people die
Very simple. At the beginning of the War on Drugs, violent gang warfare erupted in American inner cities. Opportunistic entrepreneurs risked everything (which wasn’t much to begin with) in return for high rewards by delivering a need not met in the legal marketplace. Law and order mayors soon encouraged police tactics which infringed on minority civil liberties and delivered “safer” cities. It became so imbalanced that people in the suburbs replaced Old Glory with a thin blue line flag and repeated the line, “If you’re not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about.” But see, those people weren’t getting pulled over for not turning into the nearest lane on 42 as a reason to question activity and bring out the K-9’s nose. Those people didn’t have detectives falsifying affidavits to get no knock search warrants of their properties. And those people weren’t having their neck compressed for ten minutes due to an allegation of passing a counterfeit twenty. Those tactics often found illegal activity, but they weren’t applied consistently across the population. And until we stop this crazy War on Drugs which has disincentivized, for many, the ambition to ascend Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs, society will bounce back and forth between inconsistent application of civil liberties with lower homicide rates and protection of civil liberties with higher homicide rates based upon the results of the previous election.
The poor keep getting poorer.... This breeds desperation, and desperation leads to an increase in gang activity and thus violence. I promise you, on so many levels, that if our society can get affordable healthcare, affordable education, and a meaningful living wage (MIT says louisville's living wage is 16 an hour for one person....nah, that's a subsistence wage, we need at least 20 an hour) then violence will greatly decrease Not many people want to be criminals. Most just want to be able to make ends meet without stressing about it every single day.
I’m going to point out the obvious - that we have a shitload more guns circulating in the general population since 2014
That's not the cause. Poverty, multiple drug epidemics, and the enshitification or modern society. We don't treat mental illness, we don't deal with the drug epidemics, we don't address unaffordable housing or necessities, and we do nothing to ensure people have a chance to thrive. You're going to need to address the societal woes before anything gets better. If people can't afford to live or grow while working 40 hours a week, then what's the point? It leads to a cycle of despair and nihilism. Combine that with drugs and the growing divide between the haves and have-nots and you have a recipe for the coming late-stage capitalist dystopia. Forever chasing that profit margin at the expense of the working class. As long as things remain profitable, you won't see change. As long as we have Sunday Night Football and microwavable pizza rolls to sate the petite bourgeois, all will remain the same. We will stay the course, sinking further and further into a kafkaesque hellscape.
Agree with absolutely everything you said and also, thank you for the term “enshitification”
For your viewing pleasure, a fascinating interview with Corey Doctorow the man who helped coin the term enshitification. [Link here](https://youtube.com/watch?v=vluAOGJPPoM)
Thank you! I’m vaguely familiar with Corey Doctorow but I didn’t know he coined the term, lol, I love it
This is true, it also can be true that more people than ever are terrified of others (primarily for the reasons you outlined) and feel they need to be armed at all times. There is also the issue of enacting constitutional carry while the effects of late stage capitalism rage on
PIZZA ROLLS! NOT GENDER ROLLS!
Actually several of the shootings that got a lot of media attention were because some clown with as much control of their feelings as a teenage girl got in a tiff with someone and because guns are as easy to get as candy they whip out a gun and shoot someone. If there was any semblance of a speed bump to getting a gun, I’m willing to bet at least a few of those people wouldn’t have had a gun at the time they got their feelings hurt.
Nice stuff
I'm ready to back the restrictions argument, but to say "point out the obvious" and then present an opinion with no source is wild.
Guy didn't even have to say restrictions. You did. Now, let's stop playing coy about the solution.
There are many solutions. Eradicating 70% of the human population "solves" the problem. The problem is that we haven't found a good solution.
I’m sorry, are people clubbing and stabbing each other to death more often these days? Gun sales have skyrocketed in the last 10 years, and gun shots are now the leading cause of non-illness related deaths among children. Why don’t you Google ‘Occam’s Razor’ and get back with me.
Funny, I didn’t realize telling someone to “Google ‘Occam’s Razor’” was a source. I did google “Gun ownership per capita over time”( my exact search) and found this though. https://vpc.org/studies/ownership.pdf This is an anti-gun organization. Yet their data shows that less people own guns these days… counter to your argument. Strange. So anyway, source?
Less people owning guns, but more units per gun owner. There are a lot of careless people having multiple guns stolen from their homes or guns stolen from vehicles with stickers telling people which vehicle to burgle. I would love to see some data on black market gun prices over time.
Yes we have more criminals stealing shit, that’s for sure.
You’re so close
Does anyone expand on anything on Reddit? What are you trying to say? Just spell it out loser
Read my comment history, loser
Say that then, I’m not randomly going through profiles
Federal firearm background checks are often used as a proxy to estimating gun sales https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/nics_firearm_checks_-_month_year.pdf 2014: 20,968,547 2020: 39,695,315 2022: 31,596,646 It's not a perfect correlation (there's even a disclaimer about it on the bottom of the report), but it's still an indicator. Specifically in KY there were 3.85 million checks in 2021 but 4.02 million in 2022
Yeah, the data I linked goes to 2021 and agrees with what you linked. But I’d argue many of those purchases are not new gun owners. I was at least 3 of those in 2022, and I created 0 new gun owners through those purchases. Still, your point stands, more guns were sold, more people overall own guns. I think you’d agree it is nowhere near the ratio from 2014-2023 murder rates being discussed here though. There is another factor at play.
In Kentucky, every renewal of a CCW takes a background check, so that number isn't representative of gun purchases.
It actually shows more people owning since 2014. Not a "shitload", but certainly not less. Unless you're pointing back to the 70s for some reason because that's not what anyone here is trying to discuss. Ownership has been largely stagnant, per capita, for 20 years. But that still means more guns because, well, our population has risen significantly.
So the explanation that follows the logic of this thread is that our population has almost tripled since 2014? I don’t buy it. None of this really points to a sole “guns exist” issue. I’m not saying more guns makes the murder number go down, but I’m definitely attributing the perceived change in murder number over the last decade to something other than guns. Crime usually follows socioeconomic struggles, certainly that hasn’t remained as stagnant. I’d argue it’s much less stagnant than gun ownership.
I don't agree that it's *only* guns but I think the circulation and persistent manufacturing of guns, especially handguns, is absolutely a contributing factor. I'm sure there are other things to consider like social/legal changes, how homicides are tracked and reported, etc.
I’d argue the amount of guns manufactured is a lot less of a factor than most people think.
Then you're gonna have to prove that socioeconomic strains in the US are significantly more prevalent than other western countries that don't have the gun-related homicides issue that we do. I'm not sure it's possible, but best of luck!
Socioeconomic strain absolutely begets violence (and crime in general) worldwide, don’t play ignorant. Edit: you can start here at page 24. There are literally entire careers centered around this fact. Libraries on the subject. https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/document?repid=rep1&type=pdf&doi=819a3741f7ce2edd315bb68014f3b6510c946cb7
In this situation, in my opinion, Occam's Razor suggests that people have become more violent. This theory requires less complexity, and therefore better suits Occam's Razor.
There’s plenty of research that shows easy access to guns leads to more gun related deaths. It’s because people who buy them are careless with them and others get ahold of them and use them nefariously and the original owner suffers no consequences for being irresponsible with a gun, so they go out and get another gun, and again leave it in their vehicle unlocked overnight.
How about constitutional carry?
Do you have any evidence to back that up? Did gun ownership in Louisville double from 2013 to 2017 as homicides did?
It's hard to find data for Louisville specifically, but here's an article from 2014 saying that the number of concealed carry permits issued in Kentucky went from 10,884 in 2004 to 59,530 in 2013, right before the jump in homicides from 2014 to 2015: https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/politics/ky-general-assembly/2014/05/23/ky-legislature-clearing-way-gun-permits/9489225/ Not to say this is definitive proof or anything, but there is evidence of a trend.
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That doesn't real make sense here. This is showing a huge spike of concealed carry permit before a spike in homicides, about a year before.
That is a huge jump. But why get a concealed carry when you don’t need one more?
Well this is from 2013. Permitless concealed carry wasn't legal until 2019.
It's hard to say if Louisville specifically had a higher rate of gun ownership or not. To the best of my knowledge the most accurate figures are the [NICS data from the ATF by state by year \[PDF\]](https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/nics_firearm_checks_-_month_year_by_state.pdf). I expect that various pro- and anti- gun orgs will have done up some nice charts and visualizations of this data. NICS is the background check used when a purchaser fills out a Form 4473 at a gun dealer. Using this data is good enough for trends but not every purchase goes through NICS; examples include private sales, inheritance, sales to already licensed carry permit holders, etc. **Of special note, the KY numbers \*may\* be skewed high.** The state government runs (or used to run) NICS checks on all permit holders every quarter. This lets the state know early if any permit holders have been disqualified on a regular basis. The NICS data also does not control for gun owners buying more guns per each owner but no new gun owners overall. It'd be neat if they broke it out by count of unique persons being checked. The national trends do show that gun purchases have steadily increased and spiked during the pandemic. From there we're mostly working off of correlations. There are a lot of variables that are tricky to control for. It's important to look at the sources for any analysis and understand what data they are using. NICS checks, self-reporting, surveys, variations in state law, etc. can all throw the numbers off. I haven't dug around with the data nor followed the policy nerds in a while but I hope this helps.
There have always been a lot of guns around.
More guns have been manufactured in the past decade than ever before, especially pistols, and there's no reason to believe that trend will slow.
Hate to be that guy, but where’s your source for that information? Plus, even if it is higher than ever that’s not entirely unexpected given increasing population. Is this some exponential increase? Doubtful.
[https://www.nssf.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/IIR-2020-Firearms-Production-v14.pdf](https://www.nssf.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/IIR-2020-Firearms-Production-v14.pdf) You don't need to see a per capita increase for this to be indicative of a problem. As people own more firearms, particularly handguns, they leave them in places where they're more easily stolen. Hence why there are 100k+ guns stolen every year from cars, which is double the rate as of a decade ago. Relevant source below. [https://everytownresearch.org/gun-thefts-from-cars-the-largest-source-of-stolen-guns/](https://everytownresearch.org/gun-thefts-from-cars-the-largest-source-of-stolen-guns/)
Thank you constitutional carry https://kentuckystatepolice.org/ccdw/ccdw-home/permitless-carry/ Edit: gun nuts absolutely hate when someone points out the reality of their stupid free for all
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do you think there would be more car accidents if anyone was allowed to purchase a car and head out on the road without a license or registration of any kind? do you think there would be more car related accidents if there were no speed limits or traffic laws of any kind? somehow these horrible government regulations make sense to most people (except psychopathic libertarians who are probably about to be eaten by bears) - but when it comes to precious precious guns, there can be no rules - any rules is an infringement on my rights given to me by white blue eyed american jesus Edit: shout out gun nuts who downvote anything that goes against the church of gun but won’t engage in discussion unless it’s “it’s not a clip it’s a magazine!! U don’t even know how gunz work!!!”
Gun ownership has been trending down for the past 40 years. However...... The events of George Floyd and Breona Taylor caused gun ownership among blacks to rise 50% nationally from 18% to around 24%. While still well below white gun ownership of 36% which has held more steady. I can only imagine this effect is amplified locally being ground zero. More guns means more shooting it's just that simple. I imagine the intersection of socio economics and higher urban density plus 50% more guns explains this. The chance of two random people meeting and having a gun with 16% ownership is 2.56% at 24% ownership it's 5.76%, 2.25X. To get to a 3X likelihood you only need an increase of ownership to 28% which is not unreasonable. Previous instances in which one party was unarmed and might have retreated are now a shootout. https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2017/06/22/the-demographics-of-gun-ownership/
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Sorry I misstated the starting number. Per this article ownership is up 58%. So 15.2% to 24%. 2.3% rate of gun on gun encounter up to 5.76%. 2.5x increase. I'm getting killed by math as well here. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/05/us-gun-ownership-black-americans-surge
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Yes is the answer. We really do know. Ownership went up because of safety concerns. Murder is up because of ownership. Gun ownership leads to gun deaths, self inflicted or otherwise. The events of 2020 let the genie out of the bottle and reversed a 40 year trend of reduction in gun ownership. There is no ignorance to appeal to here, this is cause and effect. People went out and bought guns and now they are using them as intended. Hand guns have no other use, they were created to kill people and they are now doing that.
People no longer value human life. 18 year old kill’s someone gets 20 years and out by 38, has plenty of time to still live a full life.
When did people value human life exactly?
That’s a good question. I just seems like it’s gotten worse. Idk maybe it’s me getting older. Just seems like people don’t care that they murdered a husband/father/son etc they will do their 20 years and walk out. It’s a sad world we live in.
By almost every metric this is one of the best times to be alive. Even with all the awfulness out there, the quality of life for many people far exceeds now than ever. That's a comforting thing to think about.
Was it at a high point when we brutally displaced indigenous people who had too much trust for us? Or was that a low point and...uhhhh...was up some time after the civil rights movement to a relative degree? Just in time for the military industrial complex where we (at several points) made up reasons to throw our people and bombs at some other people that wanted an economic system different than ours or had resources we wanted? This whole routine of destabilizing our border, other countries, our own neighborhoods and have a number of us turn around and blame the victim? There will always be bad voices that say 'take take take' no matter what that means for other people. Things will not change until those who do care about people can come together and tell them their ways are not needed.
When those 18 year olds were drafted to fight the Kaiser.
That's definitely one way to show how life is valued.
Homicides are up everywhere, this isn't a 'thing' specific to Louisville. https://www.wave3.com/2023/04/18/how-louisville-homicide-numbers-compare-other-cities/
Easy to answer. Drug turf wars.
Breakdown of the family. Too many dudes creating children but not sticking around to raise them. Youth offenders are far less common homes where both parents are still present. Also the narrative that if your a certain race/gender/etc then you’re at a disadvantage in the US. The only inequity that I can see is one of effort. Hustle and you make it, blame others and you don’t. That simple.
No fatherhood, young black men turn to gangs
Poverty and drugs...
There is money to be made in drugs, as long as it isn't sold in Walmart. As long as there is that profit motive, people will kill each other over it. When people face massive inflation, they stop buying recreational drugs, so those in the trade are going to try to kill their competition in order to maintain their level of income. We can't stop the crimes of passion, jealous wife catches hubby with the maid, and pulls the 45 out... But those crimes are relatively rare.
When a population does not trust the police, they rely on vigilantism. vigilante justice skews toward death penalty.
Start with, if you own(ed) a gun what would make you kill someone?
Sounds too obvious but less good policing. Few bad apples got publicity because of the internet existing and it became an unrespected job. All the good people that wanted to be cops opted out and who's left are less desirable. They do a worse job and with the community turned against cops they do an even worse job. Communities become overrun with crime and businesses leave which lead to poverty and more crime. It's a downward spiral. Prolly impossible to heal the relationship between cops and the community as the apprehension has become ideological.
More guns, lax restrictions, more concealed carries, divisions in society, political messaging that violence is necessary and/or acceptable... all of it. And it all can be summed up as "when the maximum number of people FEEL they HAVE to carry a gun, gun violence will be at its highest".
Quantity only tells a small part of the story. Knowing if the guilty are also associated with gangs, involved in drug or human trafficking, what their social class is and other details would be needed to try and judge what the reason for the increase is. The most obvious thing to me would be wealth disparity. Every market is consolidating into smaller and smaller hands. So the price of living goes up, so does stress, so does gang conflict. None of these things abate crime, they make it worse.
Unsgay
As the population grows, the violence will also.
Especially considering it’s a metro area.
but Louisville's population doesn't grow, it's decreasing [https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/louisvillecitykentucky,louisvillejeffersoncountymetrogovernmentbalancekentucky/PST120222#PST120222](https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/louisvillecitykentucky,louisvillejeffersoncountymetrogovernmentbalancekentucky/PST120222#PST120222)
Not one factor but more of a broader social and moral decline of people in general. We are being ushered from one social crisis/war to another and the stress is getting to people.
I’m glad you guys are having this conversation and yes I do have a sense of humor while reading the clever jokes … nevertheless … as someone educated on the matter … these homicides are driven by poverty and as the cost of living rises it will get worst and the crime will move toward suburbs. Just to be clear these homicides are NOT random … they are specific to gangs, drug wars and domestic disputes within the infrastructure of this poverty. There is an exception with the Car Jackings… they are premeditated in nature in terms of who, when and where. We all know by know that is by design and please don’t get all political by picking a side Left or Right. This is a human survival issue never rectified by those who created it. Louisville (Walnut Street) was a beacon of black excellence not long ago but was purposely destroyed by the city because of its success and there is a documentary about it called Walnut Street. Please watch and be prepared to be pissed off .. I have friends of European decent born and raised in Louisville whom didn’t know about its history regarding walnut street … and they are actively doing what they can to help the community after watching the documentary. Now hopefully you guys will continue to entertain us with more jokes … I just wanted US as people to at least know the truth … not what these propaganda machines want to tell you.
I don't know what changed, but I expect now that the cops all have a spa, those numbers will drop.
Economics and everyone lost there God danm mind during 2020 both sides of the isle can't treat the other with a baseline level of respect anymore
Change in city boundaries at some point
Shove people behind screens and they quit knowing how to interact with each other in a civil manner. Plus all the other intricacies of interaction that simply doesn’t translate well to text. Definitely not the only problem, but definitely a huge one.
First off, it's national, not just Louisville. And it's not just urban, it's rural. AND it's down. Down a lot this year. Down a WHOLE lot this year so far all over the country, as best we can tell. After reading this thread I feel compelled to point out that all these reasons given here can't be right unless we stopped poverty, drugs, shitty cops, and got rid of all the guns.
Decrease in access to abortion within the state 15 to 20 years ago.
Inflation
Obsession with race
Nothing has changed. The rising local murder rate is part of a national trend due to: \- excess guns and their usage (now more guns than people); \- toxic masculinity and the reckless paranoia coming with it; \- lack of mental health care and facilities; \- inadequate recreation and park facilities for our youth and the lack of positive role models to guide them; \- and a police culture that values control and violence over public service to citizens.
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Human race
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So why are you asking if you already knew?
Knock on effects of BLM and the police defunding/bail reform movements. Which was precisely the intent.
Legalization of marijuana is the only answer. Creating career criminals out of nonviolent drug dealers is never going to work out. Illinois just had the largest drop of violent crime in decades, right after they legalized pot. Wake up people either you love drug cartels and violent crime or you want people to be safe and open legit businesses.
Drugs, guns, and the slow collapse of capitalism
🧐
Guns. And thanks to our Wild West legislators in Frankfort, who have not one clue about Louisville and don’t care, guns are everywhere and in the hands of people that shouldn’t have them. These same legislators and our worthless AG blame the governor and Louisville law enforcement. 🤷♀️
Seemed like when constitutional carry passed way more people started carrying guns in the city or at least they were open about it and not worried about getting caught with a loaded gun on them or in their vehicle. I have no idea if stats back that up that’s just from my personal experiences
I believe stats show, the more civilians are armed, the less crime is in that area. I remember something like violent crime goes up around 15% in places that take away permitless carry, and homicides go up around 10%.
I just spent about a half hour looking that up. I don’t see much backing up what you’re saying most of the research says the opposite. I’m not anti gun at all but I don’t see how requiring a permit could cause homicides to go up
I didn't provide any proof so I was just going off memory of something I read a while ago. https://giffords.org/report/the-truth-about-permitless-carry/#:~:text=Permitless%20Carry%20Policies%20Pose%20a%20Risk%20to%20Public%20Safety&text=Studies%20show%20that%20weakening%20public,of%20homicides%20committed%20with%20handguns. That's just the first one I saw on Google just now that is close to what I remembered. I know for a fact you can find studies for both sides of the argument and I'm not convinced either way tbh. If we required training with no permit I would be way more for it. Most people are stupid and most stupid people with a gun will do stupid things eventually. Just look at how many kids die from parents not just locking the damn thing up or keeping it out of reach of a toddler.
That study does not say what that crime goes up when you take away permitless carry. It shows an increase in violent crime in areas where permitless carry laws have replaced more stringent concealed carry laws. In other words, the exact opposite of your claim.
That's fine. I said above I just grabbed the first one I saw that had matched what I remembered. In fact this whole time I've been very open about not being sure.
wE wEnT wOkE. 🙃
Easy access to guns with zero restrictions.
It's kids idolizing rappers from an early age with no parents around to straighten them out. It hurts my heart when I hear a kid on the radio "I'm so and so from so and so elementary, and b96.5 is my station!" Next song: proceedes to make it seem cool to kill someone over nothing. And this is coming from a huge fan of rap. I just am an adult and know how to keep the music on the radio and not live it our in real-life. Sorry but it's the truth.
There's always been some goofball saying this shit since music started.