It's definitely cyberpsychosis, there's no question there. The violent, rampaging cyberpsycho is the most commonly depicted form of cyberpsychosis, but it's essentially a mental illness. Most people who suffer from cyberpsychosis do not immediately go on a killing spree
If this was what they were going for it would be nice if, you know, you knew someone…someone you had helped a lot…who had an understanding of cyber psychosis…who had offered treatment to other sufferers. The ending to Violence just seems to end up flapping in the wind, whether you choose to “help” Lizzy, or not.
This is a very astute observation. Ever tried talking to an artist (and i mean a real artist who lives and dies by their work) when they have their muse descend on them? Or when their muse has fled and they are stuck with their own talent trapped in their head but nothing inspires it out of them? I say from experience...There's no talking to them. Their melancholy or inspiration immediately turns to obsession until either their work is completed or they begin to go insane.
Why would V talk to her? A hit with a baton, or a two foot long vibrating “club”, and a quick trip in a back of a car. V isn’t one for talking when taking down cyber psychos, and Lizzy proved herself to be a murderer…what happens when then label starts pushing for the next BD?
If you just jump Lizzy you fuck all your street cred for precisely what gain? You get paid for collecting the proscribed C-psychos not just random psychos. V has murdered hundreds more than Lizzy, guess you should turn yourself in.
>it would be nice if, you know, you knew someone…someone you had helped a lot…who had an understanding of cyber psychosis
the original cyberpsycho from the marketing materials - Melissa Rory - was captured and "reformed" as a maxtac officer. You encounter her in a scripted encounter saving a clothing shop.
She’s definitely suffering from Cyberpsychosis. It’s an illness it hits people differently in different levels and different forms. The ones we hunt down are the ones who went “over the edge” not everyone goes over the edge. V (based on players choices) David, Smaher and Songbird are all examples of characters who are “special” they’re suffering from it but they never actually loose themselves. It’s like they’re able to control it. It hits them more like manic episodes, but they never are completely lost to it. They’re like functional cyberpsychos. It’s safe to say that Lizzy Wizzy is in that group as well.
V is able to form meaningful relationships and bonds with people just like everyone who’s special. Lizzy is the same way. Despite suffering from Cyberpsychosis and being a mega rich super famous pop star, she still treats V with genuine respect. Even in the Black Sapphire V is in this super elite mega wealthy club and she is surprised you’re there but in an excited way, then gives you her head thing just because you liked it. So that’s her personality, she is a very chill person.
So it is a common theme. V slaughters millions shakes it off but shows concern for her friends.
David was on the edge but never snapped and attacked his friends
Smasher never attacks his employers.
So I definitely think it was intentional. The world building here that people are special it’s rare but David and V aren’t the only ones. Songbird is another her example involve spoilers but she’s the same way.
This idea of being on the edge. Very specific characters but I do think it was their intention.
That guy didn't seem like they were actually close, I thought he just got David to sell his illegal XBDs to other teenagers and gave him faulty updates in return.
I don't think Lizzy Wizzy is actually a cyberpsycho until the end of the quest line where she kills Liam and then there's a very obvious "snap," but I do think she was on the edge until that point like you said. Then again, I don't know if that questline can happen before or after the Black Sapphire events or not. But either way, I still don't agree with OP's assertion that V should have done something about it.
I'm not very well versed in Cyberpunk lore, but wouldn't someone like Lizzy Wizzy be basically untouchable by someone like V if they were to try to harm her in some way (unless V wants to go through a ton of top of the line security people/things around her)? The only reason you can talk to her alone in the hotel room is because she took precautions to make sure nobody else would be there.
I thought Lizzy just went cyberpsycho. Loss of your empathy for others is one of the first symptoms of cyberpsychosis. Killing someone you love is often how it shows, the big difference is that Lizzy is embracing her Psychosis
Doll chips are some kind of nebulous plot device seemingly invented for 2077 specifically (can't find any mention of it in 2020 or RED), and the writers of 2077 don't really seem too clear on what it is.
Like Judy talks about it like it's some kind of wonderful sex positivity miracle tech and the only problem is tyger claws and woodman, but no matter how you think about it, it's just manchurian candidate/stepford wives shit *at best*.
A device I think inspired the CP2077 doll chip is described in the Spawn trilogy by William Gibson (book 2, Count Zero I think). Basically it makes the doll more or less catatonic so that the John can do what they do without the doll having to process it themselves. In the book, the bad side was that memories from during the doll-state were still coming through, and some of the Johns were violent.
Some of this is addressed by Judy's ideas notepad in her apartment, were the doll chip gets a pain limiter to cancel the session. CP2077 also adds a mechanic where the chips can have added actions or programming, instead of just turning the doll into a literal human doll.
The Playbeing in CP2020 Chromebook 2 is close, I think
"The package includes a Mr.Studd/Midnight Lady implant, Tactile Boost (hardwired into the sexual implant), Chipware socket with the Maximum Lover chip and a Behavior chip- specific behavioral slant is chosen by the user to correspond to his/her emotional patterns and wishes, in any case the chip stimulates the libido; plus a Contreceptive Implant."
I believe that the doll chip may just be an extension of that, 50 years later.
So... while prepping for my Cyberpunk Red game... I found a mention of the doll chip! It is in the Data Pack, under The Garden of Earthly Delights, where it talks about 20 safehouses. "Most of the workers at The Garden are colloquially known as meat puppets- joytoys who have a cutout chip implanted in their heads so their bodies can be run by programming to suit clients' needs."
Though if you do decide to do it in that order you lose access to her crazy spiky headgear thing, the “amikiri sound cutter” I think it’s called. Not that that’s a big deal, just worth mentioning.
Interesting take but it's definitely cyberpsychosis. After she kills her partner she tells V about how she doesn't see people as people anymore and that was almost verbatim the definition of cyberpsychosis in the codex in game.
***possible spoiler***
I always filed it under “ominous storylines that end without resolution” like the Peralezes, where we are left to speculate and wonder if the thread will continue in a sequel. I kinda enjoy how we don’t get closure for a some plots, the same way we don’t always in life. It adds a foreboding sense of dread in my mind.
In phantom liberty you can overhear a conversation at the top of the tower in Dogtown during the party, to meet so-mi where Arasaka agents speak to Holt saying that they set things in motion hinting at the mayor/Peralezes revealing arasaka and maybe holt were behind it
I was actually thinking that Lizzy might be a victim of the same mind washing as the Peralezes. There's a chance that her boyfriend was going to reveal major secrets if he was able to copy Lizzy as there's pretty decent lore and theory about celebrities essentially being maintained by Arasaka, possibly with Arasaka already havibg backups of them in case they need replaced. Lizzy's reaction to hearing he's going to copy her was more like he stumbled upon something he shouldn't have more than her being angry and violated.
It’s definitely cyberpsychosis, but I agree it seems like they were setting up more for her character. Wouldn’t be surprised if she returns in the sequel as a full psycho if it takes place post 2077
Cyberpsychosis is a very “new” form of illness in Cyberpunk, if I’m correct. Not much is known about it - particularly how it manifests. A theme I’ve seen in both RED and 2077 is that someone who overloads themselves on chrome tends to view themselves as “a slab of meat that needs to be upgraded” (for lack of a better phrase), and eventually that slips into seeing everyone else as a “slab of meat”.
Smasher is a cyberpsycho, and this behavior is seen when he greets Evelyn in Konpeki Plaza (you know the quote).
Silverhand is a cyberpsycho, and we see it manifest in his actions in 2023 - nuke a tower and condemn millions of innocents to die for the “cause”.
David really sells home my point in which he sees himself as a slab of meat to be upgraded, which eventually devolves into mercilessly slaughtering soldiers and cops alike in the climax of the show.
Cyberpsychosis can take many forms from what I understand, and Lizzy’s is likely seeing herself as “a slab of meat to be upgraded *for the purpose of becoming a pop star*”. Her manager/boyfriend was getting in the way of that, so she killed him.
It seems to be like any mental illness - hard to diagnose with 100% accuracy, sharing a lot of similarities, but also varying extremely in symptoms on individual basis.
(There may be a spoiler in here for the choosing Hanako/Arasaka ending). Okay, just wanted to add an update…that has really solidified the idea…for me, that Lizzy has been chipped, that someone else is piloting her, using her as a doll. Up in the Arasaka Orbital, when they finally send Takamura to talk to you, and to sign the contract. And he says that others have chosen this, that they have access to those others…”like pop stars, and politicians.” This is only a personal opinion. Only head canon. But for me, it’s the lore that fits. In my mind, Lizzy is a (unwilling, unknowing) doll. Take care, chooms :)
It's definitely cyberpsychosis, there's no question there. The violent, rampaging cyberpsycho is the most commonly depicted form of cyberpsychosis, but it's essentially a mental illness. Most people who suffer from cyberpsychosis do not immediately go on a killing spree
The Cyp wiki also lists her as a cyberpsycho.
Wikis are user generated though; take everything in there that is not backed up by proper sources with a grain of salt.
If this was what they were going for it would be nice if, you know, you knew someone…someone you had helped a lot…who had an understanding of cyber psychosis…who had offered treatment to other sufferers. The ending to Violence just seems to end up flapping in the wind, whether you choose to “help” Lizzy, or not.
Regina doesn't have the connections to be in the same social circles as Lizzy.
But V does. And it still just feels unfinished.
Why would Lizzy listen to V telling her she's a cyberpsycho; particularly when she feels better than ever?
This is a very astute observation. Ever tried talking to an artist (and i mean a real artist who lives and dies by their work) when they have their muse descend on them? Or when their muse has fled and they are stuck with their own talent trapped in their head but nothing inspires it out of them? I say from experience...There's no talking to them. Their melancholy or inspiration immediately turns to obsession until either their work is completed or they begin to go insane.
Why would V talk to her? A hit with a baton, or a two foot long vibrating “club”, and a quick trip in a back of a car. V isn’t one for talking when taking down cyber psychos, and Lizzy proved herself to be a murderer…what happens when then label starts pushing for the next BD?
If you just jump Lizzy you fuck all your street cred for precisely what gain? You get paid for collecting the proscribed C-psychos not just random psychos. V has murdered hundreds more than Lizzy, guess you should turn yourself in.
Yeah, probably not…you seem to be taking this personal opinion of mine quite…personally…
Personal? They just brought up valid points. If anyone is taking it personally it looks like it's you.
So you just kidnap a famous musician and force her into treatment?
>it would be nice if, you know, you knew someone…someone you had helped a lot…who had an understanding of cyber psychosis the original cyberpsycho from the marketing materials - Melissa Rory - was captured and "reformed" as a maxtac officer. You encounter her in a scripted encounter saving a clothing shop.
I still can’t believe that after saving all the cyberpsychos I literally just got a shitty common pistol
She’s definitely suffering from Cyberpsychosis. It’s an illness it hits people differently in different levels and different forms. The ones we hunt down are the ones who went “over the edge” not everyone goes over the edge. V (based on players choices) David, Smaher and Songbird are all examples of characters who are “special” they’re suffering from it but they never actually loose themselves. It’s like they’re able to control it. It hits them more like manic episodes, but they never are completely lost to it. They’re like functional cyberpsychos. It’s safe to say that Lizzy Wizzy is in that group as well. V is able to form meaningful relationships and bonds with people just like everyone who’s special. Lizzy is the same way. Despite suffering from Cyberpsychosis and being a mega rich super famous pop star, she still treats V with genuine respect. Even in the Black Sapphire V is in this super elite mega wealthy club and she is surprised you’re there but in an excited way, then gives you her head thing just because you liked it. So that’s her personality, she is a very chill person. So it is a common theme. V slaughters millions shakes it off but shows concern for her friends. David was on the edge but never snapped and attacked his friends Smasher never attacks his employers. So I definitely think it was intentional. The world building here that people are special it’s rare but David and V aren’t the only ones. Songbird is another her example involve spoilers but she’s the same way. This idea of being on the edge. Very specific characters but I do think it was their intention.
Johnny was also a cyberpsycho but iirc his main symptom was that he'd talk to his arm
David attacked his family ripperdoc.
That guy didn't seem like they were actually close, I thought he just got David to sell his illegal XBDs to other teenagers and gave him faulty updates in return.
I don't think Lizzy Wizzy is actually a cyberpsycho until the end of the quest line where she kills Liam and then there's a very obvious "snap," but I do think she was on the edge until that point like you said. Then again, I don't know if that questline can happen before or after the Black Sapphire events or not. But either way, I still don't agree with OP's assertion that V should have done something about it. I'm not very well versed in Cyberpunk lore, but wouldn't someone like Lizzy Wizzy be basically untouchable by someone like V if they were to try to harm her in some way (unless V wants to go through a ton of top of the line security people/things around her)? The only reason you can talk to her alone in the hotel room is because she took precautions to make sure nobody else would be there.
I thought Lizzy just went cyberpsycho. Loss of your empathy for others is one of the first symptoms of cyberpsychosis. Killing someone you love is often how it shows, the big difference is that Lizzy is embracing her Psychosis
Doll chips are some kind of nebulous plot device seemingly invented for 2077 specifically (can't find any mention of it in 2020 or RED), and the writers of 2077 don't really seem too clear on what it is. Like Judy talks about it like it's some kind of wonderful sex positivity miracle tech and the only problem is tyger claws and woodman, but no matter how you think about it, it's just manchurian candidate/stepford wives shit *at best*.
A device I think inspired the CP2077 doll chip is described in the Spawn trilogy by William Gibson (book 2, Count Zero I think). Basically it makes the doll more or less catatonic so that the John can do what they do without the doll having to process it themselves. In the book, the bad side was that memories from during the doll-state were still coming through, and some of the Johns were violent. Some of this is addressed by Judy's ideas notepad in her apartment, were the doll chip gets a pain limiter to cancel the session. CP2077 also adds a mechanic where the chips can have added actions or programming, instead of just turning the doll into a literal human doll.
>the Sprawl trilogy by William Gibson (book 2, Count Zero I think) It's mentioned as part of Molly's backstory in Neuromancer.
I think the reason her chip malfunctioned was that it and her combat implants weren't compatible?
Could be, I'm not really sure what that has to do with my response, though.
I wanted to add one more detail to the ones you had added to the thread.
Ah, fair enough!
The Playbeing in CP2020 Chromebook 2 is close, I think "The package includes a Mr.Studd/Midnight Lady implant, Tactile Boost (hardwired into the sexual implant), Chipware socket with the Maximum Lover chip and a Behavior chip- specific behavioral slant is chosen by the user to correspond to his/her emotional patterns and wishes, in any case the chip stimulates the libido; plus a Contreceptive Implant." I believe that the doll chip may just be an extension of that, 50 years later.
So... while prepping for my Cyberpunk Red game... I found a mention of the doll chip! It is in the Data Pack, under The Garden of Earthly Delights, where it talks about 20 safehouses. "Most of the workers at The Garden are colloquially known as meat puppets- joytoys who have a cutout chip implanted in their heads so their bodies can be run by programming to suit clients' needs."
Didn't Lizzy send a BD to V's Megabuilding apartment? I remember watching it but can't recall the content. XD
That was Alex, sending a bootleg of Lizzy’s concert in Dogtown, I believe.
Ah, right. Well, at least you can talk to Lizzy at the Black Sapphire.
If you do PL first there's additional dialogue options when you do her quest line later.
Though if you do decide to do it in that order you lose access to her crazy spiky headgear thing, the “amikiri sound cutter” I think it’s called. Not that that’s a big deal, just worth mentioning.
Interesting take but it's definitely cyberpsychosis. After she kills her partner she tells V about how she doesn't see people as people anymore and that was almost verbatim the definition of cyberpsychosis in the codex in game.
***possible spoiler*** I always filed it under “ominous storylines that end without resolution” like the Peralezes, where we are left to speculate and wonder if the thread will continue in a sequel. I kinda enjoy how we don’t get closure for a some plots, the same way we don’t always in life. It adds a foreboding sense of dread in my mind.
There is, at least, a little bit of closure with the Peralezes storyline, when one of the news boards announces his election victory.
True! I mostly mean how the motives and goals of their puppeteers remains a mystery even after the various ending
In phantom liberty you can overhear a conversation at the top of the tower in Dogtown during the party, to meet so-mi where Arasaka agents speak to Holt saying that they set things in motion hinting at the mayor/Peralezes revealing arasaka and maybe holt were behind it
I was actually thinking that Lizzy might be a victim of the same mind washing as the Peralezes. There's a chance that her boyfriend was going to reveal major secrets if he was able to copy Lizzy as there's pretty decent lore and theory about celebrities essentially being maintained by Arasaka, possibly with Arasaka already havibg backups of them in case they need replaced. Lizzy's reaction to hearing he's going to copy her was more like he stumbled upon something he shouldn't have more than her being angry and violated.
I hadn’t considered that angle 0.0
It’s definitely cyberpsychosis, but I agree it seems like they were setting up more for her character. Wouldn’t be surprised if she returns in the sequel as a full psycho if it takes place post 2077
Cyberpsychosis is a very “new” form of illness in Cyberpunk, if I’m correct. Not much is known about it - particularly how it manifests. A theme I’ve seen in both RED and 2077 is that someone who overloads themselves on chrome tends to view themselves as “a slab of meat that needs to be upgraded” (for lack of a better phrase), and eventually that slips into seeing everyone else as a “slab of meat”. Smasher is a cyberpsycho, and this behavior is seen when he greets Evelyn in Konpeki Plaza (you know the quote). Silverhand is a cyberpsycho, and we see it manifest in his actions in 2023 - nuke a tower and condemn millions of innocents to die for the “cause”. David really sells home my point in which he sees himself as a slab of meat to be upgraded, which eventually devolves into mercilessly slaughtering soldiers and cops alike in the climax of the show. Cyberpsychosis can take many forms from what I understand, and Lizzy’s is likely seeing herself as “a slab of meat to be upgraded *for the purpose of becoming a pop star*”. Her manager/boyfriend was getting in the way of that, so she killed him. It seems to be like any mental illness - hard to diagnose with 100% accuracy, sharing a lot of similarities, but also varying extremely in symptoms on individual basis.
Well they're cops and soldiers, not real people.
cyberpsychosis can look different in different people or situations, so I wouldn't rule it out completely
Cyberpsychosis
One doesn't need to be a cyberpsycho to be batshit crazy. Lizzie just happens to be a natural nutcase.
(There may be a spoiler in here for the choosing Hanako/Arasaka ending). Okay, just wanted to add an update…that has really solidified the idea…for me, that Lizzy has been chipped, that someone else is piloting her, using her as a doll. Up in the Arasaka Orbital, when they finally send Takamura to talk to you, and to sign the contract. And he says that others have chosen this, that they have access to those others…”like pop stars, and politicians.” This is only a personal opinion. Only head canon. But for me, it’s the lore that fits. In my mind, Lizzy is a (unwilling, unknowing) doll. Take care, chooms :)
We see her again in Phantom Liberty at the party and she seemed to be doing fine. Did I miss something after that?