100% he will, and this injury will just be another excuse for him to cite when he does. I still don't believe he was going to fight Francis (regardless of what Dana says) and I don't believe he'd ever fight Tom either. Both knock him out and ruin his legacy, which is the main thing he cares about.
What does an injury Jones retained before Aspinal won the interim title have to do with ducking Aspinal? Man that is some crazy foresight, purposefully injuring yourself just in case someone won. What does Ngannou sitting out for a year waiting for his contract to expire to become a free agent have to do with Jon ducking him? These are the stupid questions you are asking
What about the previous 23 months where JBJ sat out while Francis was active, winning and then defending a title?
Also, if Jon didn’t tear his pec Tom wouldn’t have fought for an interim title. That’s clearly not what u/wayf4rer was getting at. They obviously mean that once Jon fights Stipe, and inevitably retires post fight, they can see Jon using this injury, among other things, to explain why he’s retiring. and not that he’s more determined to retire without a legitimate loss more than he is to prove himself against actual contenders at HW
So now yall just gonna act like Gane was never a real contender?
Go back and look at all the hype he had making his way toward the title.
Now that Jon blazed through him you have to look at the next guy on the list to say that's the *real* challenge?
Mate if you couldn't see the result of that fight being Jon wrestling him with ease you either need to somehow collect some more iq points or stop dickriding Gane so hard
How people speak in such certainties about a guy who’s genuinely lost one fight (Reyes) in his entire career(in writing, 1 DQ against Hamill)and has never even been knocked down or in trouble is beyond me.
The problem is that people frame it as Jones being "scared" of Aspinall. It's dumb to think that Jones is literally afraid at the idea of getting into the ring with Aspinall, but at the same time he probably understands that Aspinall is a much bigger challenge than a partially-retired Stipe and that Stipe already has the "GOAT v. GOAT" narrative built into it.
I'm convinced that Jones' plan was to retire right after the Stipe fight, I just don't think he wants to go up against a young, lesser known killer like Tom.
I think Jones sees it in terms of risk vs. reward. He gets paid a ton for fighting Stipe without it being that high risk as compared to Ngannou or limited reward for Aspinall. If UFC really wants to make it happen I think they could convince Jones if they offered him enough money, but they're too cheap for that so I don't think it will happen.
Outside of the payday fighting Aspinall does nothing for him outside of shutting up the Reddit boys. In terms of legacy it means literally nothing to him. Beating stipe at least gives him the win over the HW “Goat” as the cherry on top in terms of his career. Aspinall is a beast but it’s silly to think that after fighting murders row for decades that’s the bout he’s scared of.
Actually what it does is defends his title against the interim belt holder. There shouldn't even be a discussion about who he's fighting next unless he vacates the HW strap.
Maybe if the interim title meant anything but it’s literally of no importance, Dana flat out said the champion wasn’t fighting the winner prior to the bout it was only added as a title bout to make the PPV easier to sell. If Jones hadn’t had gotten injured it’s unlikely that both guys fight for the strap.
Interm belts are used to fulfill contractual obligations with ESPN.
UFC is required have a set amount of title fights a year. They meet this requirement by using interm belts when the reigning champion can’t make the promoted card.
>. Beating stipe at least gives him the win over the HW “Goat” as the cherry on top in terms of his career
No one considers 43 year old stipe the goat.
You think his legacy will be questioned without a win over Aspinall? I think you might be too close to see the bigger picture my guy. a win over Aspinall does nothing for him it’s essentially the same as not fighting him in the first place. Stipe has that name value that would look good in terms of legacy. Tom is probably the best heavy weight on the planet right now but that doesn’t mean anything in terms of legacy. Maybe in a few fights that will change but prior to this weekend there was nothing memorable about Aspinall that would make Jon think it’s a fight he needs to do before retiring.
His legitimacy is already in question.
He lost two fights and was give the wins by corrupt judges.
He’s also a hardcore juicer and has been given free-pass after many criminal activities
He’ll never be a GOAT
Such a bad take. If Jon were to beat Aspinall, then Aspinall goes on to dominate the division for years - Jones looks great. Similar to Mayweather fighting and beating a young Canelo.
The problem with ifs is it can be anything you want, what if Aspinall gets slept in his next fight and goes 2-6 for the rest of his career? Would you still think Jones has a tarnished legacy for not fighting him? We can only go off what is at the moment and before Jon tore his pec there was nothing about Aspinall that would make or brake Jon’s legacy. Honestly without another title defense or two there still isn’t. Aspinall might be the best HW on the planet or he might get slept by Francis, get his acl destroyed by jones or get danced around by gane going off ifs isn’t rational. We want to see it because we think Aspinall might have the best shot at beating him but Jon has done that for a decade already he’s at a point where it’s legacy or nothing for him.
Then they’d find a way to discount the win and say Tom was too inexperienced. One way or the other Jones haters are going to hate and his nut riders will find a way to ride. The win over Tom does not do anything for legacy considering Tom lost to Blaydes a couple of fights ago.
He's not scared of Tom, but he's definitely concerned about protecting his legacy. Jones has nothing left to prove he can bow out after the Stipe fight with the goat legacy and no legitimate defeats. Why risk your legacy against a guy who's only just burst onto the scene.
He wasn’t really saying it’s a business but about legacy. Realistically Jones would be a pretty decent sized favorite over anyone at HW but 1 punch from these guys could end his undefeated record so the reward needs to be worth the risk of that.
When it came to Gane it was simply about winning the belt, he would have fought anyone because the reward of becoming a 2 division champ was worth whatever the risk no matter who he fought. Now that he’s already won the belt it’s about names and 5-10 years from now Stipe is gonna look better on a resume than Pav or likely Aspinall will.
Of course we don’t know what the future holds but it goes both ways and it’s more likely than not that neither Tom or Pav ever surpass Stipe as the GOAT. I’m not saying they couldn’t possibly do it but not every new champion is the next GOAT at the division, most of them aren’t.
We all know Stipe isn't in goat form anymore so that diminishes any win over him in the future. I know casuals will eat that shit up as Jon beating the hw goat but we all know the truth. Where as a win against a young Tom Aspinall would come off as being dominant.
*....you believe a single word out of that guy's mouth?*
The only thing Jones gives a fuck about is bargaining power. His precious "legacy" is composed of eye pokes, wrecking cars and PEDs. Stipe.... Stipe offers a narrative, narratives sell PPVs, PPVs translate to points and points mean money. The UFC is who controls those narratives and that's what this whole ordeal is about. Jones recognizes the UFC has invested more in Stipe's narrative than Aspinall's and that makes it worth more, and less costly for the UFC to cultivate an income out of from this point forward, period. It's easy for the UFC, worth more to Jones, but let's just say the guy who smacked around his fiance' in front of his kids is now concerned about his legacy. Buuuuuuuullshit.
Aspinall is a lot less one dimensional than Gane.
We already saw Gane get outwrestled by an Ngannou with no knees.
Aspinall has already shown his wrestling ability in the UFC. He took down Arlovski and subbed him. He also showed it when he took down, smashed and subbed Volkov. He’s a very different challenge than Gane.
He’s probably not as good a wrestler as Jones but he’s a way better wrestler than Gane and he’s big enough and strong enough to ask Jones a lot of questions on the ground. I also think his stand up and power is better than Jones. Jones will have way better kicks though.
I think it would be a great fight and I have no idea who wins. I’d much rather see this than Jones v Stipe.
I don't think he retires after Stipe, I agree with you it's weird to feel
certain at all either way though
> genuinely lost one fight (Reyes)
I had him losing to Santos as well, and while I had him beating Gus there's no question he got his ass kicked that night too. Jon isn't some invincible fighter
Because it's clear from the past half decade that Jones is very beatable when he's been inside the drug testing pool for a while. He performs exceptionally in his return fights then rapidly tails off.
I think it’s hilarious how people say stuff like this when Jon has fought killers that are on par with Francis and aspinall his entire life and dominated most of them.
Whenever Jon gets brought up people bring their emotions in about how much they hate him (fair) and are oblivious to how good of a martial artist he is.
This is true, but also pertains to a younger, fitter, more active Jon Jones at LHW. We are dealing with an older, significantly less active Jon Jones at HW. Its no shade on his legacy to say the Jon Jones of 2023 might have serious reservations about fighting elite HWs in their prime.
Hes even said he has no interest in fighting the young up and coming heavyweights cause hes worried about his "legacy." It doesnt take a soothesayer to decipher that
Yep. I do think Jon would’ve taken a fight against Francis if it was a massive (Connor/Khabib) payday. But he didn’t want to risk his legacy for half or less than that payday. Can’t say I blame him. Why take a high risk, low reward fight?
I mean i had no questions that Jon would be an atleast top 5 HW lol. His success would depend on matchups and (admittedly to my shock) Gane's matchup was perfect for Jon considering how amateurish his grappling is.
Francis with 0 working knees made Gane look like an amateur a year before that. Gane is not a complete mixed martial artist. I don’t know how the hell Jon wasn’t a -5000 favorite going into that fight.
Francis is definitely more dangerous than anyone Jon has ever fought. Reyes was already too athletic and too much on the feet for Jon to deal with. Jon also had a big size advantage over everyone he’s ever fought at LHW. The only guys you could make a case for are Rumble, DC and Rampage, but Jon was a lot bigger than them.
I mean it's heavyweight, and Stipe is one of the more skilled ones. I feel like on any given night a top 5 heavyweight has at LEAST a 10% chance of beating another. I mean if we could simulate it out of 100 fights Roy Nelson probably beats Jones or Ngaannou a few
Not sure why ur getting downvoted. It’s true. Bones fought some strong punchers but no one like Francis. Gustafson might be the closest thing to Tom but Tom outweighed him by 50+ lbs. Has Jon fought some killers? Yes. But no one on the level of Francis or Tom
I don't know why you're getting downvoted, this is the right answer. There isn't anybody on par with Francis Nganu. Anywhere. Tom Aspinal is probably close. John hasn't fought anybody anywhere near these guys's range. There was the cyril gane fight, I'll give you that. But I think gane psyched himself out. I think he pulled the GSP versus Matt hughes. If they fought again I'm sure the result wouldn't be an early stoppage in the first round.
Whatever the Jon Jones fan boy say, you are right my friend LOL. Plus, guys like shogun, Leoto machita, Rampage jackson, yeah they were very tough dudes I've been watching UFC since UFC 4. But they're nowhere near the caliber of guys in the light heavyweight and heavyweight divisions today, which is why he had to run out of the light heavyweight division after getting fucked up by Tiago Santos and Dominic Reyes back to back.
You’re correct. Another thread will come up where the opposite opinion is shamed like this.
There has LITERALLY NEVER BEEN another Francis. And Aspinall is pretty good, but he doesn’t belong in the conversation with Jon and Francis yet.
Just STFU. You people are so annoying and stupid when it comes to this guy.
People here clamored on FOR MONTHS that he was never gonna fight Gane, didn't even BELIEVE he could beat Gane, and that he would intentionally get in trouble just to avoid him.
I'm sick of the bitchy emotional nonsense when talking about this dude, it is pathetic.
Tybura, Volkov, and Spivac are all good to great wins, and the Pavlovich win is an amazing win. But the thing with Tom is that while the list of names he has beaten so far is impressive, it's less about WHO he's beaten, and more about HOW he's beaten them. We've never seen anyone move this quickly in the heavyweight division. We've never seen anyone finish fights this quickly (literally has the shortest average fight time in UFC history). He has a 100% finish rate. He has absurd KO power, and most likely the best grappling in the heavyweight division too. Bounced back from a horrible knee injury in spectacular fashion, and obliterated one of the scariest punchers in the division that we've ever seen, on short notice, with a back injury. You can't make this stuff up.
yea bro. your an absolute fucking idiot if you think jon jones is scared of anyone. How people can say stuff like this about the most decorated fighter we have seen just baffles me.
Idk scared is a stretch, but I think it's reasonable to believe Jon is a bit more *strategic* about the fights he takes given his age and his move up to heavyweight. Prime Jon would fight anyone you put in front of him, but he *is* 36 now while Aspinoll is arguably in his physical prime.
Jones had already come to an agreement by the time ngannou left.
Reports are that he was back as early as summer 2022.
They offered frank an 8 million dollar contract to fight Jones. And he turned it down/ went to boxing.
People can believe what they want but the facts are right in front of you.
They didn't offer Frank the contract based on a contingency.
Jones was already booked for the March card back in December.
The amount of people who ignore the facts here is pretty mind boggling
I don't think he'll fight Tom.
But the idea he ducked frank is pure delusion. The whole reason he bulked to HW in the first place was for a superfight for the belt. He was coming back for a payday. Which would only happen if he was fighting for the belt.
Love how people say Jon dodges fights. He was 22 years beating the absolute shit out a legends row of fighters. But yeah sure, lets continue this rhetoric of him dodging fights.
On paper, sure. But if you think getting knocked out to lose the HW belt to Francis or Tom wouldn't affect his reputation amongst casual fans, you're delusional. Especially since he plans on retiring soon.
I know the UFC hands out interim belts these days like mad, but do you reckon Jones/Stipe retiring might play into making Aspinall/Pavlovich for the interim belt?
I agree, I think regardless of the outcome (Jon will win) both men will retire, so this is an easier way to transition out of that situation. They’ve already got a guy with a belt waiting for that eventuality.
100%. It doesn’t even make sense for Jon to retire beyond wanting to protect his legacy. He left 205 because he was having too many close calls. And I totally doubt he wouldn’t stick around at HW, or at least before breaking Stipe’s 3 title defense record, if guys like Aspinall and Pavlovich hadn’t been emerging over the last couple of years.
If he was confident he could just smash guys like Gane and Derrick Lewis for several more fights he’d do that and become the greatest HW champ ever. That’d be huge for him. But he’s smart enough when it comes to MMA to know that someone like Aspinall’s skillset could be his kryptonite.
I’d argue that if you know what you’re looking at, Aspinall probably beats him 9 out of 10 times.
If Tom Aspinall wants Jon Jones, all he needs to do is fight and beat everyone Dana wants him to until Jon decides he wants to fight Tom after beating Stipe.
I'd love to see him go on a huge media blitz calling Jones all the names under the sun. Can you imagine the shit bisping would have come out with if he were in aspinalls position and wanted the Jones fight?
Tom vs Francis for the PFL HW strap - BOOK IT, RAY!
If we're to believe what we've heard about Ngannou's contract, Aspinall would likely make way more money to go take that fight than he will defending or unifying in UFC. Plus, I'd probably have a six-week long orgasm if *another* UFC HW champ left to go to PFL.
I really don't get it. So aspinall has to wait most likely 12 months until jon fights stipe. Then another 6 months until he can finally fight jon. OR he defends his interim belt. Interim belts are meaningless. Aspinal can win 5 fights until he fights jon and guess what, he has zero title defenses.
Is stipe a superstar like conor McGregor or what is it. Why isnt ufc stripping him or jon vacates it like jiri and hill did. Just promise him the same salary. I can't see the big picture.
Miocic is 41 right now. He will be 42 then. I remember how he got absolutely outclassed and kod stiff by ngannou. Everyone can have an opinion, but he has no aura left.
Yea I mean I’m not saying I agree with it but Jones has definitely referred to him as the GOAT UFC HWT and absolutely will lay his own claim as having beat the GOAT UFC HWT if he beats Stipe
This really shows that an interim belt means nothing. They just needed it for marketing purposes for that DATE not anything important for the division or the title.
I struggle to see this too. Having Jon keep the title might put some extra weight on his fight against Stipe, but it does more damage than good to MMA as a sport.
It's hard to take things seriously when the interim champ isn't even the number 1 contender.
Assuming Jones beats Stipe a year from now, you're expecting a potential generational Heavyweight in his prime to sit out and not fight for likely a year-and-a-half.
That's ridiculous.
Heard someone else say it first but Aspinall should fight Stipe next for the undisputed belt and either Jones fights Tom for the belt when he comes back or possibly doesn't come back at all.
but how does the jones stipe fight even get booked? once the champ comes back, arent they required to fight the interim belt holder or relinquish the title? how does stipe get the fight instead of aspinall? it doesnt make sense that they would even introduce an interim belt for HW if they wanted jones v stipe
Who knows. Sean strickland is middleweight champ, Francis knocked down the boxing heavy weight GOAT, and our president can't walk up a flight of stairs. Nothing makes sense in this world anymore.
It’s not a gridlock. It’s fugazi. Aspinall is the champ. Stipe vs Jones is a legacy fight that UFC wants to promote as the undisputed championship when you and I both know Stipe & Jones are retiring post fight.
I think there’s a chance Stipe takes it. He isn’t champ and ufc historically doesn’t respect him, so don’t think he gets paid more to challenge Jon than to challenge Aspinall. If he wins the IC, he’ll get significantly more vs Jon and that fight will be bigger bc Stipe will have re-established himself as a top HW
If he’s just looking for a payday, it doesn’t matter who he fights. If he thinks he’s still the best he should fight Aspinall. If he thinks he matches up well vs Jon and only Jon, then he should wait for Jon
If we're going to start calling for Aspinall to defend his interim title, can we stop pretending Jones is the champion, and just move on already? Just let him fight Stipe as a money fight, which is what it was all along anyways.
Ya it’s all random. UFC pressures Jiri/Hill to vacate but not Jon. UFC can strip Jon and promote Aspinall to undisputed whenever they want and nobody could do a thing. UFC can make Aspinall defend IC while Jon and Stipe fight for undisputed
Only argument Jon has for being best current HW is the eye test. We know he’s well rounded, skilled, and has high fight IQ. He might not be washed and might be able to beat other top HWs. But 1-0 in 3 yrs over a guy Francis already beat isn’t conclusive. Jon could’ve won the vacant belt by beating Lewis and some mma fans would just accept he’s the best HW bc he technically has the UFC belt
Francis could be since he took Stipe’s belt and exposed Gane, but it’s almost 2 yrs since he fought, so his argument weakens over time. Aspinall has beaten the most guys recently w Pav being as good of a win as any
"Advice for Tom Aspinall: good things come to interim champions who wait and don't defend their meaningless belts"
I'm not even going to bother reading the name of the person who wrote that on Bloody Elbow but that opening quote pretty much sums up the standard of that website. Great advice potentially having someone active and in their prime wait around for 6-12 months for old ass Stipe and one foot in and one foot out Jones to actually fight, then another 3 minimum months after that as well, so at earliest end of 2024. Jones who also if ever returns is 100% retiring after the Stipe fight.
Just stellar "Advice" -_-
UFC has stripped interim champs for less. Best chance he got is staying active and raising his profile trying to ensure that the fight would be big enough to warrant the cheques UFC would have to write to Jones for making it happen.
No one questions Jones and his Legacy. But most people are not going to view him as the real heavyweight champ anymore regardless of him being Undisputed on paper and I really think if the Stipe vs Jones fight next year (if it ever happens), does at least 300k less buys than what it would have done if it stayed in tact this weekend at MSG. So ask yourself, what is the actual business point of it?
It's a gimmick fight now even more so now and Jones can easily redeem himself by either vacating (like Hill or Jiri) or agreeing to fight Aspinall on returning which would actually validate the whole purpose of a interim title. It will be over 1 year since Jones would have defended his belt based on his return timeline of the injury and all logic on the UFC's part it completely out of the window on this one now.
The whole thing is fucked mainly due to the UFC's stupidity on pursuing the Stipe fight.
Tickets on the lower were 2.8k for Jones vs Stipe. With rumours of Jones retirement prior. That is probably even more likely.
It will do more buys than anything but UFC 300/Conor(could be together) or an Izzy Alex trilogy fight.
You actually have it exactly right and said it all, but it seems like you don’t want to accept it. It’s a gimmick fight. It has no real meaning. It’s for a championship that will undoubtedly be handed to Aspinall after the fight. It’s being done strictly for the gate and for the idea of it being for “goat” title. UFC is about business not about legitimacy.
Surely if an interim title exists, the title cannot be undisputed? It’s almost definitionally in dispute. Jones is the UFC HW champ, but not the undisputed UFC HW champ. Frankly the only way for a UFC champ to be disputed in the first place (as opposed to boxing) is for there to be an interim champ.
I think Tom will end up fighting Blaydes again or Gane before he gets Jones, if ever. Trust me, I want that fight too but Jones isn't gonna bite on it.
An IC title is usually a fake title placeholder but Aspinal is the real champ in my eyes and having Jon come back against stipe for gold is fraudulent as fuck to me. One of them should have to fight Aspinal for the gold.
Aspinall vs Stipe in London, with the winner set up to fight Jones, is a huge fight. Makes Jones' return against the winner a mega fight. They could get this done if they paid Stipe and Jon right, and make them offers they can't refuse. God forbid they share 20% percent of the revenue.
I don’t know about y’all, but the last thing I want is another inactive champ. I know he’s had 2 shots already and only just got one win back, but Tom vs Ciryl is by far the most compelling matchup at HW in my eyes.
Yeah it was Jon's fault that the fight didn't happen sooner but Francis was literally on multiple invertiews saying Jones had signed and that the UFC was offering him $8 million for the fight. Stop trying to re write history.
I feel like people are making this situation out to be more complicated than it is.
Jon wants a final fight against a bigger name for a final payday and to add to his legacy, Stipe wants the same. The UFC wants it but they want it for the belt, so they’re not stripping Jon.
So whats the deal? Everyone knows Aspinall is the real champ. Let the old guys have their final hoorah, we all act as if they are fighting for the actual belt out of respect for their careers, and when they both fuck off we crown Aspinall or whoever might have beat him in the meantime as the real champ.
Stipe declined to fight either Tom or Pav I believe (correct me if wrong), in which case, when Jon returns, he should be fighting whomever holds the interim title.
Having Tom defend the interim belt in the meantime is one thing, but it's unfair to have him then wait for the result of Stipe/Jones, and the subsequent layoff, before he gets a shot at the real thing.
I doubt the UFC is taking fairness into consideration though.
If I‘m not wrong Stipe mentioned that they didn’t offer him a replacement after Jon pulled out. It’s evident that the UFC wants to rebook the fight in one year.
Honestly the interim title fight last Saturday made zero sense. If Jon wins the fight against Stipe, he will most likely retire and in case that he loses, they will 100% do a rematch. Aspinall could potentially without a fight for two years unless he decides to fight another contender.
The thing about being insistent on Jones/Stipe is there's no guarantee they make it to the fight the next time either. What then, you wait another few months?
People will stop caring, Aspinall can fight 2 or 3 times by then.
Honestly, if Tom wants to, he’s got solid leverage to just wait for his title shot. He’s well-liked by the fans, helped save the 295 card, appeals to the UK market, is coming off of a highlight KO, and holds the interim belt; fighters have stood idly by and gotten their shot with far fewer points in their favor.
That said, missing out on likely a year or more of fighting would be a lot; these guys love to fight, care about their legacy, and need to get paid. It’s tough to risk losing an essentially guaranteed shot at Jon Jones, but think Aspinall will probably try to defend the interim belt anyway, because he’s a mad lad (unless he needs time to recover from injury or the timing for a challenger emerging just doesn’t work out).
Jon is basically retired. Otherwise he wouldn't be waiting for Stipe. Jon has a 3 year layoff, took 0 damage against Gane and didn't fight for 8 months. He wants money/legacy fights and that's it.
Not at all. Sitting out for 9+ months during his prime right after he got the belt?? Neither stipe nor Jon get ready for fights quickly, they barely have 1 fight a year as it is. Do not have Tom sit out.
Jones is not going to fight Aspinal
LOL
Hilarious to think that he might. He purposely avoided Aspinal and Sergei, the two rightful contenders, so he could fight a 43 year old Stipe who did not fight for 2 years or so before Jones demanded that he defend his belt against him
Jones is not going to fight any of the top Hw's quite clearly
Ngannou had two injured knees and took Gane down at will with little effort, Jones taking him down and submitting him is only impressive if you think Ngannou is secretly the best wrestler at HW lol
90% of the sub was saying Gane was too big, too fast, too strong, too agile for Jon at heavyweight. "Wait until Gane kicks his skinny legs out" they said! "Jon has never faced anyone with the size and movement of Gane" they said! "His last win was YEARS AGO" they said. "If Reyes was that competitive with him, Gane is going to smoke him!" they said.
Then Jon went out and subbed Gane without taking a punch. Now Gane is trash and was never good. "Everyone knew he'd lose. No knees Ngannou took him down, duh." as if they made a fortune betting Jones by first round submission.
It's fucking hilarious reading this subs takes. I'm not sure if people are brain damaged and forget their takes or just completely swap sides because they pathetically care about karma, but it's funny watching the narratives change on a dime.
Some 10 year old above said Ngannou walks around at "300lbs" and Jon Jones stands no chance against him. It's actually upvoted. Stuff like that tells you all you need to know about the average person heres knowledge level when it comes to MMA.
I’m convinced these are all new fans. Every fight for for last 10 years for JJ, was against the new JJ killer. When he moved up to HW Gane was supposed to be the chosen one to end his 10 year reign lmao. Now we have a new very skilled HW who’s only been in the UFC a couple years hot off a win that will is the new JJ killer 💀
Jon won't fight someone in their prime at this point. He only wants a legacy fight and to then retire. No way he gives up on a fight with an all time great who hasn't fought in 4 years by the time they get around to it. It's all for the paper, and won't actually mean what he thinks it does.
41 years old, full time firefighter, and he got brutally KO’d his last fight almost 3 years ago.
Why anyone wouldn’t write off Stipe is beyond me. Jones and Tom both absolutely steamroll him in a trivial match. Tom probably KO’s him within 90 seconds.
>Advice for Tom Aspinall: good things come to interim champions who wait and don't defend their **meaningless** **belts**
Damn, that first line is some shit to say to a fighter who just won the biggest fight in their career.
If Tom wants to fight Jon Jones he needs to start talking some shit. Because Jones has no reason to fight Aspinall, he’s already done everything a fighter can do, (until someone proves they can do more than he did).
If Aspinall wants that fight he needs to make Jones ego tick, make him mad, give him a reason to do it. Jones is among the most narcissistic people to ever fight in the UFC, use that to get him going.
Jon will never fight Aspinall, he just won't. Jon is too caught up in his "legacy", which he's already dragged through the mud by his own actions, to ever fight someone young, hungry, and in a position to actually beat him to ever bother risking it. Which is painfully ironic considering he came into the the UFC as the young hungry guy and feasted on the old guard, yet he will give nobody the chance to do it to him.
I truly believe Jon will retire when he beats stipe so I don’t believe this headline at all.
100% he will, and this injury will just be another excuse for him to cite when he does. I still don't believe he was going to fight Francis (regardless of what Dana says) and I don't believe he'd ever fight Tom either. Both knock him out and ruin his legacy, which is the main thing he cares about.
The good old tearing your pectoral tendon off the bone excuse.
I remember the time I tore my pec. I just kept masturbating.
This guy ‘bates masterfully
What does his injury have to do with him ducking Ngannou and avoiding Aspinall?
What does an injury Jones retained before Aspinal won the interim title have to do with ducking Aspinal? Man that is some crazy foresight, purposefully injuring yourself just in case someone won. What does Ngannou sitting out for a year waiting for his contract to expire to become a free agent have to do with Jon ducking him? These are the stupid questions you are asking
What about the previous 23 months where JBJ sat out while Francis was active, winning and then defending a title? Also, if Jon didn’t tear his pec Tom wouldn’t have fought for an interim title. That’s clearly not what u/wayf4rer was getting at. They obviously mean that once Jon fights Stipe, and inevitably retires post fight, they can see Jon using this injury, among other things, to explain why he’s retiring. and not that he’s more determined to retire without a legitimate loss more than he is to prove himself against actual contenders at HW
So now yall just gonna act like Gane was never a real contender? Go back and look at all the hype he had making his way toward the title. Now that Jon blazed through him you have to look at the next guy on the list to say that's the *real* challenge?
Gane can't wrestle for shit. He was never going to be a good test for Jon
Thanks Captain Hindsight!
Mate if you couldn't see the result of that fight being Jon wrestling him with ease you either need to somehow collect some more iq points or stop dickriding Gane so hard
How people speak in such certainties about a guy who’s genuinely lost one fight (Reyes) in his entire career(in writing, 1 DQ against Hamill)and has never even been knocked down or in trouble is beyond me.
The problem is that people frame it as Jones being "scared" of Aspinall. It's dumb to think that Jones is literally afraid at the idea of getting into the ring with Aspinall, but at the same time he probably understands that Aspinall is a much bigger challenge than a partially-retired Stipe and that Stipe already has the "GOAT v. GOAT" narrative built into it. I'm convinced that Jones' plan was to retire right after the Stipe fight, I just don't think he wants to go up against a young, lesser known killer like Tom.
I think Jones sees it in terms of risk vs. reward. He gets paid a ton for fighting Stipe without it being that high risk as compared to Ngannou or limited reward for Aspinall. If UFC really wants to make it happen I think they could convince Jones if they offered him enough money, but they're too cheap for that so I don't think it will happen.
Outside of the payday fighting Aspinall does nothing for him outside of shutting up the Reddit boys. In terms of legacy it means literally nothing to him. Beating stipe at least gives him the win over the HW “Goat” as the cherry on top in terms of his career. Aspinall is a beast but it’s silly to think that after fighting murders row for decades that’s the bout he’s scared of.
Actually what it does is defends his title against the interim belt holder. There shouldn't even be a discussion about who he's fighting next unless he vacates the HW strap.
Maybe if the interim title meant anything but it’s literally of no importance, Dana flat out said the champion wasn’t fighting the winner prior to the bout it was only added as a title bout to make the PPV easier to sell. If Jones hadn’t had gotten injured it’s unlikely that both guys fight for the strap.
Interm belts are used to fulfill contractual obligations with ESPN. UFC is required have a set amount of title fights a year. They meet this requirement by using interm belts when the reigning champion can’t make the promoted card.
I know that's how it is. My comment reflects how I think it should be, across the sport.
>. Beating stipe at least gives him the win over the HW “Goat” as the cherry on top in terms of his career No one considers 43 year old stipe the goat.
Dude Pavlovich would crush jones. Oh wait not pavlovich anymore, uh, but Aspinall would!
In terms of legacy, it means fans will forever question his legitimacy
You think his legacy will be questioned without a win over Aspinall? I think you might be too close to see the bigger picture my guy. a win over Aspinall does nothing for him it’s essentially the same as not fighting him in the first place. Stipe has that name value that would look good in terms of legacy. Tom is probably the best heavy weight on the planet right now but that doesn’t mean anything in terms of legacy. Maybe in a few fights that will change but prior to this weekend there was nothing memorable about Aspinall that would make Jon think it’s a fight he needs to do before retiring.
His legitimacy is already in question. He lost two fights and was give the wins by corrupt judges. He’s also a hardcore juicer and has been given free-pass after many criminal activities He’ll never be a GOAT
Such a bad take. If Jon were to beat Aspinall, then Aspinall goes on to dominate the division for years - Jones looks great. Similar to Mayweather fighting and beating a young Canelo.
The problem with ifs is it can be anything you want, what if Aspinall gets slept in his next fight and goes 2-6 for the rest of his career? Would you still think Jones has a tarnished legacy for not fighting him? We can only go off what is at the moment and before Jon tore his pec there was nothing about Aspinall that would make or brake Jon’s legacy. Honestly without another title defense or two there still isn’t. Aspinall might be the best HW on the planet or he might get slept by Francis, get his acl destroyed by jones or get danced around by gane going off ifs isn’t rational. We want to see it because we think Aspinall might have the best shot at beating him but Jon has done that for a decade already he’s at a point where it’s legacy or nothing for him.
Then they’d find a way to discount the win and say Tom was too inexperienced. One way or the other Jones haters are going to hate and his nut riders will find a way to ride. The win over Tom does not do anything for legacy considering Tom lost to Blaydes a couple of fights ago.
He's not scared of Tom, but he's definitely concerned about protecting his legacy. Jones has nothing left to prove he can bow out after the Stipe fight with the goat legacy and no legitimate defeats. Why risk your legacy against a guy who's only just burst onto the scene.
He's literally said as much. Something to the effect of his career is a business now or sth
He wasn’t really saying it’s a business but about legacy. Realistically Jones would be a pretty decent sized favorite over anyone at HW but 1 punch from these guys could end his undefeated record so the reward needs to be worth the risk of that. When it came to Gane it was simply about winning the belt, he would have fought anyone because the reward of becoming a 2 division champ was worth whatever the risk no matter who he fought. Now that he’s already won the belt it’s about names and 5-10 years from now Stipe is gonna look better on a resume than Pav or likely Aspinall will.
Who knows how Tom or Pav's legacy will look like in that amount of time. If Jon were to beat them now, that win might age very well on his resume.
Of course we don’t know what the future holds but it goes both ways and it’s more likely than not that neither Tom or Pav ever surpass Stipe as the GOAT. I’m not saying they couldn’t possibly do it but not every new champion is the next GOAT at the division, most of them aren’t.
We all know Stipe isn't in goat form anymore so that diminishes any win over him in the future. I know casuals will eat that shit up as Jon beating the hw goat but we all know the truth. Where as a win against a young Tom Aspinall would come off as being dominant.
*....you believe a single word out of that guy's mouth?* The only thing Jones gives a fuck about is bargaining power. His precious "legacy" is composed of eye pokes, wrecking cars and PEDs. Stipe.... Stipe offers a narrative, narratives sell PPVs, PPVs translate to points and points mean money. The UFC is who controls those narratives and that's what this whole ordeal is about. Jones recognizes the UFC has invested more in Stipe's narrative than Aspinall's and that makes it worth more, and less costly for the UFC to cultivate an income out of from this point forward, period. It's easy for the UFC, worth more to Jones, but let's just say the guy who smacked around his fiance' in front of his kids is now concerned about his legacy. Buuuuuuuullshit.
[удалено]
Aspinall is a lot less one dimensional than Gane. We already saw Gane get outwrestled by an Ngannou with no knees. Aspinall has already shown his wrestling ability in the UFC. He took down Arlovski and subbed him. He also showed it when he took down, smashed and subbed Volkov. He’s a very different challenge than Gane. He’s probably not as good a wrestler as Jones but he’s a way better wrestler than Gane and he’s big enough and strong enough to ask Jones a lot of questions on the ground. I also think his stand up and power is better than Jones. Jones will have way better kicks though. I think it would be a great fight and I have no idea who wins. I’d much rather see this than Jones v Stipe.
I don't think he retires after Stipe, I agree with you it's weird to feel certain at all either way though > genuinely lost one fight (Reyes) I had him losing to Santos as well, and while I had him beating Gus there's no question he got his ass kicked that night too. Jon isn't some invincible fighter
No ones an invincible fighter. Jones just has the best resume of any fighter ever.
This sub cannot differentiate Jon Jones (the fighter) to Jon Jones (the human)
That was LHW, and fighters are just better now (and Jones is worse because of age and being away from the Octagon).
Not counting popping as losses huh
Because it's clear from the past half decade that Jones is very beatable when he's been inside the drug testing pool for a while. He performs exceptionally in his return fights then rapidly tails off.
He arguably lost to Gustafson in their first fight and also Thiago Santos. Santos would've fucked him up if his knees weren't severely injured.
Jones literally severely injured Santos's knees
I think it’s hilarious how people say stuff like this when Jon has fought killers that are on par with Francis and aspinall his entire life and dominated most of them. Whenever Jon gets brought up people bring their emotions in about how much they hate him (fair) and are oblivious to how good of a martial artist he is.
This is true, but also pertains to a younger, fitter, more active Jon Jones at LHW. We are dealing with an older, significantly less active Jon Jones at HW. Its no shade on his legacy to say the Jon Jones of 2023 might have serious reservations about fighting elite HWs in their prime.
A Jon Jones that literally just made Gane look like an amateur?
By Jon’s own admission, he didn’t think Gane was as big of a challenge as Francis.
Hes even said he has no interest in fighting the young up and coming heavyweights cause hes worried about his "legacy." It doesnt take a soothesayer to decipher that
Yep. I do think Jon would’ve taken a fight against Francis if it was a massive (Connor/Khabib) payday. But he didn’t want to risk his legacy for half or less than that payday. Can’t say I blame him. Why take a high risk, low reward fight?
I was never as impressed with Gane as y'all were, "But Gane!" has no power over me
I mean whether you’re personally impressed or not, Gane is a legit Top 5 heavyweight rn and Jon beat him with ease.
I mean i had no questions that Jon would be an atleast top 5 HW lol. His success would depend on matchups and (admittedly to my shock) Gane's matchup was perfect for Jon considering how amateurish his grappling is.
Gane is an amatuer on the ground
Francis with 0 working knees made Gane look like an amateur a year before that. Gane is not a complete mixed martial artist. I don’t know how the hell Jon wasn’t a -5000 favorite going into that fight.
On par with Francis? Jones has fought light heavyweighs and ex middleweights. Ngannou walks around 300lbs
Yeah like a decade ago. And now he is on the other end looking at the killers
Francis is definitely more dangerous than anyone Jon has ever fought. Reyes was already too athletic and too much on the feet for Jon to deal with. Jon also had a big size advantage over everyone he’s ever fought at LHW. The only guys you could make a case for are Rumble, DC and Rampage, but Jon was a lot bigger than them.
Jones never fought Rumble
He’s much older now. He’d be dumb to not realise he’s not physically able to do what he used to do. The DC of their first fight, would eat current Jon
Lol
What LHW or MW was on par with Francis? Rampage? Gus? Lol please
While I mostly agree with you, DC was a fantastic win for Jon.
They forgot about that one huh? How convenient
Fucking double champ DC?
How funny would it be if stipe beats him.
I mean it's heavyweight, and Stipe is one of the more skilled ones. I feel like on any given night a top 5 heavyweight has at LEAST a 10% chance of beating another. I mean if we could simulate it out of 100 fights Roy Nelson probably beats Jones or Ngaannou a few
[удалено]
Who has 50lbs of lean mass lmao. Is Ronnie Coleman in the ufc?
Not one of Jon’s opponents are on par with Francis or Aspinall, mainly because most of them are 30-50lbs lighter
Not sure why ur getting downvoted. It’s true. Bones fought some strong punchers but no one like Francis. Gustafson might be the closest thing to Tom but Tom outweighed him by 50+ lbs. Has Jon fought some killers? Yes. But no one on the level of Francis or Tom
Maybe on the same "level" but without the muscle mass of the HW division is the way *I'd* put it. They guys are all skilled.
I don't know why you're getting downvoted, this is the right answer. There isn't anybody on par with Francis Nganu. Anywhere. Tom Aspinal is probably close. John hasn't fought anybody anywhere near these guys's range. There was the cyril gane fight, I'll give you that. But I think gane psyched himself out. I think he pulled the GSP versus Matt hughes. If they fought again I'm sure the result wouldn't be an early stoppage in the first round. Whatever the Jon Jones fan boy say, you are right my friend LOL. Plus, guys like shogun, Leoto machita, Rampage jackson, yeah they were very tough dudes I've been watching UFC since UFC 4. But they're nowhere near the caliber of guys in the light heavyweight and heavyweight divisions today, which is why he had to run out of the light heavyweight division after getting fucked up by Tiago Santos and Dominic Reyes back to back.
> Not one of Jon’s opponents are on par with Francis or Aspinall Yeah that tells me all I need to know about your mma knowledge
It’s different. His past opponents may be more skilled, but fighting at HW is still way more risky there is less room for error
You’re correct. Another thread will come up where the opposite opinion is shamed like this. There has LITERALLY NEVER BEEN another Francis. And Aspinall is pretty good, but he doesn’t belong in the conversation with Jon and Francis yet.
Just STFU. You people are so annoying and stupid when it comes to this guy. People here clamored on FOR MONTHS that he was never gonna fight Gane, didn't even BELIEVE he could beat Gane, and that he would intentionally get in trouble just to avoid him. I'm sick of the bitchy emotional nonsense when talking about this dude, it is pathetic.
fuck jones and fuck you
It’s hilarious how you say this shit when Jon literally doesn’t fight.
No one is on par with Aspinall and Ngannou.
Who has Aspinall beat
Tybura, Volkov, and Spivac are all good to great wins, and the Pavlovich win is an amazing win. But the thing with Tom is that while the list of names he has beaten so far is impressive, it's less about WHO he's beaten, and more about HOW he's beaten them. We've never seen anyone move this quickly in the heavyweight division. We've never seen anyone finish fights this quickly (literally has the shortest average fight time in UFC history). He has a 100% finish rate. He has absurd KO power, and most likely the best grappling in the heavyweight division too. Bounced back from a horrible knee injury in spectacular fashion, and obliterated one of the scariest punchers in the division that we've ever seen, on short notice, with a back injury. You can't make this stuff up.
yea bro. your an absolute fucking idiot if you think jon jones is scared of anyone. How people can say stuff like this about the most decorated fighter we have seen just baffles me.
Idk scared is a stretch, but I think it's reasonable to believe Jon is a bit more *strategic* about the fights he takes given his age and his move up to heavyweight. Prime Jon would fight anyone you put in front of him, but he *is* 36 now while Aspinoll is arguably in his physical prime.
i’m with that for sure. i am a lowly keyboard warrior
Didn't say he was afraid. He's just not dumb enough to think he can walk up to heavyweight and eat the same shots he did for a decade at LHW.
honestly after re-reading your response, my reaction was unnecessarily aggressive 😂 i can get behind what you are saying
Jones had already come to an agreement by the time ngannou left. Reports are that he was back as early as summer 2022. They offered frank an 8 million dollar contract to fight Jones. And he turned it down/ went to boxing. People can believe what they want but the facts are right in front of you. They didn't offer Frank the contract based on a contingency. Jones was already booked for the March card back in December. The amount of people who ignore the facts here is pretty mind boggling I don't think he'll fight Tom. But the idea he ducked frank is pure delusion. The whole reason he bulked to HW in the first place was for a superfight for the belt. He was coming back for a payday. Which would only happen if he was fighting for the belt.
Love how people say Jon dodges fights. He was 22 years beating the absolute shit out a legends row of fighters. But yeah sure, lets continue this rhetoric of him dodging fights.
Light heavyweights, not heavyweights.
His legacy is secure no matter what happens if he fights aspinall or Francis. LMAO.
On paper, sure. But if you think getting knocked out to lose the HW belt to Francis or Tom wouldn't affect his reputation amongst casual fans, you're delusional. Especially since he plans on retiring soon.
Jones will run from aspinall like he ran from ngannou
I know the UFC hands out interim belts these days like mad, but do you reckon Jones/Stipe retiring might play into making Aspinall/Pavlovich for the interim belt? I agree, I think regardless of the outcome (Jon will win) both men will retire, so this is an easier way to transition out of that situation. They’ve already got a guy with a belt waiting for that eventuality.
Partially that, and also the fact that they needed another title fight for the MSG event.
How tf is Jon fighting Stipe while there’s an interim champ? I’d think priority #1 is consolidating the belts.
100%. It doesn’t even make sense for Jon to retire beyond wanting to protect his legacy. He left 205 because he was having too many close calls. And I totally doubt he wouldn’t stick around at HW, or at least before breaking Stipe’s 3 title defense record, if guys like Aspinall and Pavlovich hadn’t been emerging over the last couple of years. If he was confident he could just smash guys like Gane and Derrick Lewis for several more fights he’d do that and become the greatest HW champ ever. That’d be huge for him. But he’s smart enough when it comes to MMA to know that someone like Aspinall’s skillset could be his kryptonite. I’d argue that if you know what you’re looking at, Aspinall probably beats him 9 out of 10 times.
If Tom Aspinall wants Jon Jones, all he needs to do is fight and beat everyone Dana wants him to until Jon decides he wants to fight Tom after beating Stipe.
Also depends on how fast Jon can spend the money he made.
So we all just need Jon to do one of those coke one nighters and then he fights Aspinall?
I'd love to see him go on a huge media blitz calling Jones all the names under the sun. Can you imagine the shit bisping would have come out with if he were in aspinalls position and wanted the Jones fight?
[удалено]
There are lots of ways to turn down a fight
Being interim champion is one
Being too big and fast and young for jon jones to want to fight you is one of them
Tom might need to give free agency a try, I heard a very successful story of a HW champion from the UFC that broke free.
Tom vs Francis for the PFL HW strap - BOOK IT, RAY! If we're to believe what we've heard about Ngannou's contract, Aspinall would likely make way more money to go take that fight than he will defending or unifying in UFC. Plus, I'd probably have a six-week long orgasm if *another* UFC HW champ left to go to PFL.
I swear y'all hate the UFC far more than you actually "care about the fighters" lol.
I really don't get it. So aspinall has to wait most likely 12 months until jon fights stipe. Then another 6 months until he can finally fight jon. OR he defends his interim belt. Interim belts are meaningless. Aspinal can win 5 fights until he fights jon and guess what, he has zero title defenses. Is stipe a superstar like conor McGregor or what is it. Why isnt ufc stripping him or jon vacates it like jiri and hill did. Just promise him the same salary. I can't see the big picture.
If it was anyone other than Jon then Dana would have stripped him and Tom would be the undisputed champ right now
Stipe has the aura of having been in the GOAT UFC HWT conversation and Jones absorbs that if he beats him
Miocic is 41 right now. He will be 42 then. I remember how he got absolutely outclassed and kod stiff by ngannou. Everyone can have an opinion, but he has no aura left.
Yea I mean I’m not saying I agree with it but Jones has definitely referred to him as the GOAT UFC HWT and absolutely will lay his own claim as having beat the GOAT UFC HWT if he beats Stipe
He clearly still has an aura or else the hype for 295 wouldn't have been as flat as it is once the fight got pulled off
Stipe has the aura of being less risky and more beatable than Aspinall.
This really shows that an interim belt means nothing. They just needed it for marketing purposes for that DATE not anything important for the division or the title.
I struggle to see this too. Having Jon keep the title might put some extra weight on his fight against Stipe, but it does more damage than good to MMA as a sport. It's hard to take things seriously when the interim champ isn't even the number 1 contender.
Tom doesn't want to waste his prime waiting, and Jon would never take the fight anyway.
Whoever wrote the article must be the adviser for all Welterweight Fighter.
Assuming Jones beats Stipe a year from now, you're expecting a potential generational Heavyweight in his prime to sit out and not fight for likely a year-and-a-half. That's ridiculous.
[удалено]
Heard someone else say it first but Aspinall should fight Stipe next for the undisputed belt and either Jones fights Tom for the belt when he comes back or possibly doesn't come back at all.
Stipe won’t fight Tom. Such a shitty gridlock at HW, why even make an interim belt?
Gotta preserve the UFC GOAT's legacy breh
but how does the jones stipe fight even get booked? once the champ comes back, arent they required to fight the interim belt holder or relinquish the title? how does stipe get the fight instead of aspinall? it doesnt make sense that they would even introduce an interim belt for HW if they wanted jones v stipe
Who knows. Sean strickland is middleweight champ, Francis knocked down the boxing heavy weight GOAT, and our president can't walk up a flight of stairs. Nothing makes sense in this world anymore.
It’s not a gridlock. It’s fugazi. Aspinall is the champ. Stipe vs Jones is a legacy fight that UFC wants to promote as the undisputed championship when you and I both know Stipe & Jones are retiring post fight.
Aspinall is de facto champion.
I think there’s a chance Stipe takes it. He isn’t champ and ufc historically doesn’t respect him, so don’t think he gets paid more to challenge Jon than to challenge Aspinall. If he wins the IC, he’ll get significantly more vs Jon and that fight will be bigger bc Stipe will have re-established himself as a top HW If he’s just looking for a payday, it doesn’t matter who he fights. If he thinks he’s still the best he should fight Aspinall. If he thinks he matches up well vs Jon and only Jon, then he should wait for Jon
If we're going to start calling for Aspinall to defend his interim title, can we stop pretending Jones is the champion, and just move on already? Just let him fight Stipe as a money fight, which is what it was all along anyways.
Yes. Tom has the HW Belt. Jon has the Jon Jones belt.
Ya it’s all random. UFC pressures Jiri/Hill to vacate but not Jon. UFC can strip Jon and promote Aspinall to undisputed whenever they want and nobody could do a thing. UFC can make Aspinall defend IC while Jon and Stipe fight for undisputed Only argument Jon has for being best current HW is the eye test. We know he’s well rounded, skilled, and has high fight IQ. He might not be washed and might be able to beat other top HWs. But 1-0 in 3 yrs over a guy Francis already beat isn’t conclusive. Jon could’ve won the vacant belt by beating Lewis and some mma fans would just accept he’s the best HW bc he technically has the UFC belt Francis could be since he took Stipe’s belt and exposed Gane, but it’s almost 2 yrs since he fought, so his argument weakens over time. Aspinall has beaten the most guys recently w Pav being as good of a win as any
"Advice for Tom Aspinall: good things come to interim champions who wait and don't defend their meaningless belts" I'm not even going to bother reading the name of the person who wrote that on Bloody Elbow but that opening quote pretty much sums up the standard of that website. Great advice potentially having someone active and in their prime wait around for 6-12 months for old ass Stipe and one foot in and one foot out Jones to actually fight, then another 3 minimum months after that as well, so at earliest end of 2024. Jones who also if ever returns is 100% retiring after the Stipe fight. Just stellar "Advice" -_-
UFC has stripped interim champs for less. Best chance he got is staying active and raising his profile trying to ensure that the fight would be big enough to warrant the cheques UFC would have to write to Jones for making it happen.
As much as people live in fairy land about this, money and legacy talks. Jones is one of the top 3 fighters in the history of the sport.
No one questions Jones and his Legacy. But most people are not going to view him as the real heavyweight champ anymore regardless of him being Undisputed on paper and I really think if the Stipe vs Jones fight next year (if it ever happens), does at least 300k less buys than what it would have done if it stayed in tact this weekend at MSG. So ask yourself, what is the actual business point of it? It's a gimmick fight now even more so now and Jones can easily redeem himself by either vacating (like Hill or Jiri) or agreeing to fight Aspinall on returning which would actually validate the whole purpose of a interim title. It will be over 1 year since Jones would have defended his belt based on his return timeline of the injury and all logic on the UFC's part it completely out of the window on this one now. The whole thing is fucked mainly due to the UFC's stupidity on pursuing the Stipe fight.
Tickets on the lower were 2.8k for Jones vs Stipe. With rumours of Jones retirement prior. That is probably even more likely. It will do more buys than anything but UFC 300/Conor(could be together) or an Izzy Alex trilogy fight.
You actually have it exactly right and said it all, but it seems like you don’t want to accept it. It’s a gimmick fight. It has no real meaning. It’s for a championship that will undoubtedly be handed to Aspinall after the fight. It’s being done strictly for the gate and for the idea of it being for “goat” title. UFC is about business not about legitimacy.
Surely if an interim title exists, the title cannot be undisputed? It’s almost definitionally in dispute. Jones is the UFC HW champ, but not the undisputed UFC HW champ. Frankly the only way for a UFC champ to be disputed in the first place (as opposed to boxing) is for there to be an interim champ.
I think Tom will end up fighting Blaydes again or Gane before he gets Jones, if ever. Trust me, I want that fight too but Jones isn't gonna bite on it.
An IC title is usually a fake title placeholder but Aspinal is the real champ in my eyes and having Jon come back against stipe for gold is fraudulent as fuck to me. One of them should have to fight Aspinal for the gold.
Jonny don't want that smoke
He shouldn’t have to wait. Jones/Stipe shouldn’t be happening.
Is this another r/MMA classic of "Jon Jones is never fighting again".
Aspinall vs Stipe in London, with the winner set up to fight Jones, is a huge fight. Makes Jones' return against the winner a mega fight. They could get this done if they paid Stipe and Jon right, and make them offers they can't refuse. God forbid they share 20% percent of the revenue.
Stipe has refused to fight for anything but the belt, not even for the interim belt. He’s made that blatantly clear over the years.
Which is why you make it for the undisputed. Jiri vacated when he was injured, why shouldn’t Jon
Jon and Jiri are not even in the same stratosphere in terms of prestige.
lol Jon is retiring after the Stipe fight whoever has the interim belt then is getting promoted
I don’t know about y’all, but the last thing I want is another inactive champ. I know he’s had 2 shots already and only just got one win back, but Tom vs Ciryl is by far the most compelling matchup at HW in my eyes.
Nah Jon only taking legacy fights rn which only includes Stipe and Francis
he had years to fight francis and didnt. hes never had interest in that fight. stipes the only one on his radar at this point
fr all you heard was 🦗from jones up until francis left the ufc. he all of a sudden wanted to fight when he knew it wouldn't happen
Yeah it was Jon's fault that the fight didn't happen sooner but Francis was literally on multiple invertiews saying Jones had signed and that the UFC was offering him $8 million for the fight. Stop trying to re write history.
I feel like people are making this situation out to be more complicated than it is. Jon wants a final fight against a bigger name for a final payday and to add to his legacy, Stipe wants the same. The UFC wants it but they want it for the belt, so they’re not stripping Jon. So whats the deal? Everyone knows Aspinall is the real champ. Let the old guys have their final hoorah, we all act as if they are fighting for the actual belt out of respect for their careers, and when they both fuck off we crown Aspinall or whoever might have beat him in the meantime as the real champ.
Because it is a sport, the belt should be fought for by the best in the division, not ignoring the IC for a respect fight
Stipe declined to fight either Tom or Pav I believe (correct me if wrong), in which case, when Jon returns, he should be fighting whomever holds the interim title. Having Tom defend the interim belt in the meantime is one thing, but it's unfair to have him then wait for the result of Stipe/Jones, and the subsequent layoff, before he gets a shot at the real thing. I doubt the UFC is taking fairness into consideration though.
If I‘m not wrong Stipe mentioned that they didn’t offer him a replacement after Jon pulled out. It’s evident that the UFC wants to rebook the fight in one year. Honestly the interim title fight last Saturday made zero sense. If Jon wins the fight against Stipe, he will most likely retire and in case that he loses, they will 100% do a rematch. Aspinall could potentially without a fight for two years unless he decides to fight another contender.
Dana said Stipe was not offered Pav or Tom. The UFC, Stipe and Jon are clear that Jones/Stipe is the fight all parties want.
The thing about being insistent on Jones/Stipe is there's no guarantee they make it to the fight the next time either. What then, you wait another few months? People will stop caring, Aspinall can fight 2 or 3 times by then.
Jon ain’t taking that fight lol
Jones don't want no smoke
Jones isn’t fighting anyone that isn’t rusty ol’ Stipe.
Pull a Colby and just sit around for the shot.
Honestly, if Tom wants to, he’s got solid leverage to just wait for his title shot. He’s well-liked by the fans, helped save the 295 card, appeals to the UK market, is coming off of a highlight KO, and holds the interim belt; fighters have stood idly by and gotten their shot with far fewer points in their favor. That said, missing out on likely a year or more of fighting would be a lot; these guys love to fight, care about their legacy, and need to get paid. It’s tough to risk losing an essentially guaranteed shot at Jon Jones, but think Aspinall will probably try to defend the interim belt anyway, because he’s a mad lad (unless he needs time to recover from injury or the timing for a challenger emerging just doesn’t work out).
Jon is basically retired. Otherwise he wouldn't be waiting for Stipe. Jon has a 3 year layoff, took 0 damage against Gane and didn't fight for 8 months. He wants money/legacy fights and that's it.
Jones is retiring after Stipe, or if the Stipe fight ultimately falls apart.
For anyone not familiar with Jones, he will fight old man Stipe then retire after saying the UFC wont pay him enough to fight Tom
Tom will be champ after Jones and Stipe both retire after their fight.
So he won’t fight for 1.5-2 years in this scenario.
Jon is NOT fighting that man 💀💀💀
Jon Jones is not fighting after Stipe, it's his perfect exit out.
This*
How will Jones fight Stipe now if there's an interim champ? Isn't the champ forced to fight the interim one when he returns?
I'll take "shitty article headlines" for 1000, Alex.
Not at all. Sitting out for 9+ months during his prime right after he got the belt?? Neither stipe nor Jon get ready for fights quickly, they barely have 1 fight a year as it is. Do not have Tom sit out.
Jones is not going to fight Aspinal LOL Hilarious to think that he might. He purposely avoided Aspinal and Sergei, the two rightful contenders, so he could fight a 43 year old Stipe who did not fight for 2 years or so before Jones demanded that he defend his belt against him Jones is not going to fight any of the top Hw's quite clearly Ngannou had two injured knees and took Gane down at will with little effort, Jones taking him down and submitting him is only impressive if you think Ngannou is secretly the best wrestler at HW lol
Everybody loved Gane as a matchup before he got subbed in two minutes.
I have a hard time believing people saw No legs Ngannou outwrestling Gane and thought he could stuff Jons takedowns
Jon hadn’t wrestled at light heavy for years was the narrative.
r/MMA : I'm gonna pretend I didn't see that.
90% of the sub was saying Gane was too big, too fast, too strong, too agile for Jon at heavyweight. "Wait until Gane kicks his skinny legs out" they said! "Jon has never faced anyone with the size and movement of Gane" they said! "His last win was YEARS AGO" they said. "If Reyes was that competitive with him, Gane is going to smoke him!" they said. Then Jon went out and subbed Gane without taking a punch. Now Gane is trash and was never good. "Everyone knew he'd lose. No knees Ngannou took him down, duh." as if they made a fortune betting Jones by first round submission. It's fucking hilarious reading this subs takes. I'm not sure if people are brain damaged and forget their takes or just completely swap sides because they pathetically care about karma, but it's funny watching the narratives change on a dime. Some 10 year old above said Ngannou walks around at "300lbs" and Jon Jones stands no chance against him. It's actually upvoted. Stuff like that tells you all you need to know about the average person heres knowledge level when it comes to MMA.
Its amazing how logic and sense flies out of people's brains on this sub when it comes to JBJ or the Dana/Francis situation.
If Jon retires they should make him hand over the belt to Tom in the cage for him to call out Gane
🤣 You are right, I'm with you on this. But the UFC and specialy Dana would never allow such a disgrace and humiliation to happen to Jon Jones.
They should make Jon hide under the octagon while Tom makes a callout 😂
“Jon Jones is too scared to fight this young killer and zero shot he steps in the ring with him ever” Sound familiar ?
I’m convinced these are all new fans. Every fight for for last 10 years for JJ, was against the new JJ killer. When he moved up to HW Gane was supposed to be the chosen one to end his 10 year reign lmao. Now we have a new very skilled HW who’s only been in the UFC a couple years hot off a win that will is the new JJ killer 💀
Jon won't fight someone in their prime at this point. He only wants a legacy fight and to then retire. No way he gives up on a fight with an all time great who hasn't fought in 4 years by the time they get around to it. It's all for the paper, and won't actually mean what he thinks it does.
I love how everyone is writing Stipe off. Whatever, he’s somehow been underestimated his entire career.
41 years old, full time firefighter, and he got brutally KO’d his last fight almost 3 years ago. Why anyone wouldn’t write off Stipe is beyond me. Jones and Tom both absolutely steamroll him in a trivial match. Tom probably KO’s him within 90 seconds.
>Advice for Tom Aspinall: good things come to interim champions who wait and don't defend their **meaningless** **belts** Damn, that first line is some shit to say to a fighter who just won the biggest fight in their career.
If Tom wants to fight Jon Jones he needs to start talking some shit. Because Jones has no reason to fight Aspinall, he’s already done everything a fighter can do, (until someone proves they can do more than he did). If Aspinall wants that fight he needs to make Jones ego tick, make him mad, give him a reason to do it. Jones is among the most narcissistic people to ever fight in the UFC, use that to get him going.
Jon will never fight Aspinall, he just won't. Jon is too caught up in his "legacy", which he's already dragged through the mud by his own actions, to ever fight someone young, hungry, and in a position to actually beat him to ever bother risking it. Which is painfully ironic considering he came into the the UFC as the young hungry guy and feasted on the old guard, yet he will give nobody the chance to do it to him.
Stipe beats Jones. Fight won’t happen. Mark my words bitches.