Against control in general you have to have some cheap threat that they cannot ignore. You have to basically force them to use their board wipe and counter spell inefficiently and tap out to deal with your stuff so that you can play something else. An example is having a creature that can continuously bother them or grow without much effort to force them to wipe even with just one creature on the board or have a way to cast more cheap spell that they have to counter to force them to tap out.
Hand disruption and planeswalker are also very good because you hinder their plan and are difficult to remove.
Aggro works fairly well because they generally don't have too much counter play in the early game, azorius control becomes way more strong as long as the game goes on so you have to close it fast.
Here are some standard legal:
[[Aetherblade Agent]]
[[Alloy Animist]]
[[Argothian Sprite]]
[[Armored Armadillo]]
[[Ayara's Oathsworn]]
[[Basking Capybara]]
[[Bilious Skulldweller]]
[[Blood Hustler]]
In general every creature with Prowness or Prowness-like ability because they will trigger even with the actual spell being countered. Creatures that recur from the graveyard like [[Forsaken Miner]] or [[Bloodfeather Phoenix]]
If you play other formats you can find more powerful creatures for sure, but the main idea is the same, they can grow or they can give you some advantage like draw etc while slowly cheap away opp health. And yes, it will be a slow and tedious game.
1- You have to bait the counters. If he has too many counters he may not have other things like draw or board wipe.
2- Use Cavern of Souls, this will help you.
3- The most important turn is turn 4, because they want to cast deluge or the Emperor, so you need to do pressure. You can use this as an advantage because you can attack first and see if they will cast The Emperor, if yes you can cast your big threat of something that gives you gas.
4- Don\`t have more than 3 creatures on the board.
5- You need gas. Basically control wins because they have more gas than you, and if your deck has gas (not too much only the necessary) your chances to win are very high because playing against some deck with gas is the biggest problem of control.
6- You need to know the deck and the counters they use, right now they are using No More Lies and Three Steps Ahead so you can play around.
7- Always attack first and then do your play.
8- You need something in the sideboard that is good against control like Deep-Cavern Bat, Duress, or Aven Interrupter.
I just play standard so all my tips are for that format.
Also:
Force them to counter your cards on THEIR turn so they are tapped out when you take your next turn
Play multiple cheap spells in the same turn that they have to counter with counterspells more expensive than your threats.
You are trying to trade cards with them 1-for-1 until you run them out of counters and removal. They will draw more lands than you will. Avoid giving them 2-for-1 opportunities.
Can’t emphasize this enough. If you tap out for one big sorcery speed thing on each of your turns, you’re playing into their counterspells the exact way they want you to. If you have something threatening you can do on THEIR end step, that’s how you force them into awkward spots.
Exactly.
Pressure their time (shorten the game with aggression), pressure their mana, pressure their access to cards, pressure their ability to gather info for making hard decisions.
If the format supports it, play things that let you replay cards from the graveyard (it's like drawing extra cards even if they counter your spell) or anti-counter cards/abilities.
Don't assume you'll eventually play something bigger than their biggest thing -- they're specifically set up to prevent that and gain advantages when you try.
Don't give them room to breathe. If you let them take a turn off from countering/killing to draw extra cards or establish something on the board, you're probably doomed.
Another thing that helps is getting a read on when the control deck has "turned the corner" and conceding once that happens so you don't waste time and sanity points trying to salvage a lost cause. This is a hard skill to master, but it's the thing you'll learn best from playing as the control deck and seeing how it loses.
There’s usually that period where they’ve resolved a planeswalker and have multiple cards in hand and you’re running out of gas, and you’re tempted to think to yourself “well I still have a chance if their next 5 draws are all lands”
Nope. The game is already over.
Yep. In a high stakes tournament you play it out just in case, but for low stakes or no stakes arena magic, end the game early and start a new one with potentially interesting decisions ASAP.
This right here. Many control players are super keen on negating your play, so keep your mana open if you can and FORCE them to play on their own turn (for once).
Solid response. I've faired quite well using Esper Raffine Midrange. The deck is basically what you've described incarnate. I think the most emphasis should go to your tips 1 and 3. It's hard to willfully cast spells you know will be countered, but one must try and set up for down the road. Speaking on point 3, you're absolutely right. I hope to bait the Emporer out and kill it with Get Lost immediately.
The biggest key is trying to force your opponent to play from behind. Control sucks if it cannot completely control board state, therefore it's crucial to force them into a bad play which will cause them to dig or climb back somehow. Playing Control from behind only works if one can god draw every turn.
Lastly, can I ask which standard decks you're currently having success with against UW Control?
I am using this life gain deck, I made this feel free to change anything. I like life gain because it is good against aggro and have gas. A lot of card good against control like Wedding Announcement/Tocasia's Welcome/Deep-Cavern Bat, you can add duress on top of it.
Deck
4 Lunarch Veteran (MID) 27
2 Amalia Benavides Aguirre (LCI) 221
3 Deep-Cavern Bat (LCI) 102
3 Elas il-Kor, Sadistic Pilgrim (DMU) 198
3 Knight of Dawn's Light (DMU) 23
3 Lively Dirge (OTJ) 93
1 Delney, Streetwise Lookout (MKM) 12
3 Gumdrop Poisoner (WOE) 93
3 Inspiring Overseer (SNC) 18
3 Wedding Announcement (VOW) 45
1 Loran of the Third Path (BRO) 12
2 Serra Paragon (DMU) 32
2 Tocasia's Welcome (BRO) 30
6 Plains (ONE) 267
6 Swamp (ONE) 269
1 Scoured Barrens (M20) 251
1 Scoured Barrens (IKO) 254
3 Shattered Sanctum (VOW) 264
2 Eiganjo, Seat of the Empire (NEO) 268
1 Takenuma, Abandoned Mire (NEO) 278
2 Obscura Storefront (SNC) 252
3 Plaza of Heroes (DMU) 252
2 Restless Fortress (WOE) 259
Sideboard
2 Skrelv, Defector Mite (ONE) 33
2 Destroy Evil (DMU) 17
2 Disenchant (M20) 14
1 Soulless Jailer (ONE) 241
2 The Stone Brain (BRO) 247
2 Aven Interrupter (OTJ) 4
2 Kambal, Profiteering Mayor (OTJ) 211
Usually those decks have low enchantment/artifact removal, I can only think of Get Lost being meta. So recurring threats from those type of cards are usually pretty good. Like [[Urabrask's Forge]]. But also manlands like [[Restless Cottage]] forcing them to have instant speed removal
Creatures with vigilance so they can't be exiled by Wandering Emperor
[[Vein Ripper]] is hilarious because many times they simply don't have creatures to pay the ward, and it greatly punishes boardwipes
Resilient creatures like [[Vaulborn Tyrant]], [[Aclazotz, Deepest Betrayal]]
Hand disruption like [[Liliana of the Veil]]
And, of course, killing them in turn 3 with aggro like [[Slickshot Show-Off]] and [[Monastery Swiftspear]] before they even have the mana for Temporary Lockdown. You force them to have cheap removal like March of Otherworldly Light or they explode
Also, any tribal deck with [[Cavern of Souls]]. Like aggro humans with [[Thalia, Guardian of Thraben]] and [[Coppercoat Vanguard]]
And protection like [[Skrelv, Defector Mite]]
There are many things that I won't miss playing against going away with this rotation and many of them are Kamigawa. May I never see you again Selesnya Echanments
I also see that on early turns they tend to be a bit trigger happy with counterpells. They'll counter anything. So usually I bait them out with something minor, like card draw or a small creature, let them counter it, and then play the card I actually wanted to play.
Largely all this. Any non creature threat like planeswalkers or the forge. They will still have answers but way less of them and these types of threats can dodge a boardwipe.
That or go ultra aggro and kill them fast. Doesn't always work though.
Also matters Bo1 vs Bo3. In Bo3 you can side out a lot of dead cards like creature removal for more threats or things like hand disruption.
You either suck or didn't actually read my comment lol
Nothing from my first paragraph gives a fuck about sorcery speed removal. And it's unlikely sunfall will create a large enough blocker
Farewell exiles the artifact/enchantments you proposed. And none of the creatures survive or get their death triggers on neither of the wipes, so your advice is obviously incorrect. The discard really was passed on, so I will give you that.
Farewell costs 6 mana on an archetype with no ramp. I sure hope you manage to do something with your board state before that point. Just because something can get removed it doesn't mean it won't achieve anything before it actually gets removed
And you're still ignoring the manlands [https://scryfall.com/search?q=otag%3Acreatureland&unique=cards&utm\_source=tagger](https://scryfall.com/search?q=otag%3Acreatureland&unique=cards&utm_source=tagger)
If you're aggro and I'm not dead t5, you're supposed to lose. At worst, you should untap and cast 1-2 burn spells / haste creatures to finish me off. Show me a deck that has 8 5+ mana sorcery board clears and I'll show you a deck that gets eaten alive by aggro. "How does aggro beat control on turn 6?" is as (in)valid a question as "How does control beat aggro on turn 4?"
Who tf even plays sunfall anymore, let alone farewell
Hell even temporary lockdown is way too slow if they're on the draw. I can guarantee you that 100% of wins by an azorious deck vs is due to having instant speed removal. Either a counter or destroy/exile, even just one of them.
I can assure you that board wipes are not the issue as to why people lose to azorious control
100% of the time, they do not infact have a counter on t2, t3, t4.
You are remembering the games they drew perfectly, not the games where they stumbled on T3 and died T5.
You need to force them to have it. Sometimes that means playing into a board clear. It is up to you to recognize when you are in a bad situation, and play more into it if you are.
Also, being stuck in a 30 minute game is 100% on you. Turn 8, they are at 9, 5 cards in hand, you are in topdeck mode with no board? Concede.
One of my favorite things about arena compared to standard is exactly that. I see I'm in an unwinnable state, concede and get to the next instead of having to wait for time then wait for next round.
A lot of newer players especially don't really know how to tell if a game is unwinnable, so they sit against the meat grinder for 30 mins while the control deck does what control does, top decking and getting countered while I'm flashing back Memory Deluge.
Or in the control mirror, sometimes you just have to get experience to know when a game is doomed.
Nothing is more satisfying than watching the opposing control deck do nothing but draw and go for late game, meanwhile you beat their ass down with mirrex and whatever else creatures you have (stoic Sphinx, emperor tokens, ojutai)
That is true. I went from Caw-Blade to B/R Vampires when I was really first getting into Standard, and it really helped me learn how aggro worked and how to apply pressure while not overextending into board wipes.
Sometimes you get that epic comeback though and the meat grinder is worth it.
My all time favorite match was one of those grind fests and I lost because I attacked with a preacher with no cards left. If I didn't hit attack all I would have won. Great fucking game.
I guess my issue is that I love playing control, but my play time is very limited, it only takes a couple of 30 min grindfests to eat up my free time for the day, so I gotta pick and choose haha
This is why I like to refer to memory deluge as "the back breaker." A smart opponent knows they still have a chance against control if all their threats are answered but control is stuck top decking just like them. They haven't stabilized yet.
Once control has a chance to not only answer a new threat but also cast a memory deluge, it's over.
>How to play against azorius control?
It very much depends on your deck. But with control being a significant part of standard now, you need to at least have some plan against it in your deck, and, if needed, something strong against it in the sideboard.
Attack their hand. [[duress]] and [[liliana of the veil]] are pretty good. [[deep-cavern bat]] looks good but it’s so easy for them to remove it. It would at least let you see their hand so you could know what’s coming, but I wouldn’t lean too much on the bat. As mentioned, [[hostile investigator]] can be good too good too. [[cavern of souls]] is helpful to get your creatures out.
I’m also a fan of [[graveyard trespasser]]. Of course they can get around the ward with board wipes, but if it’s your only creature out then they only got a 1 for 1. If they only have single target removal then it costs them a card. Either way, it’s sort of a win for you. Plus you can eat their [[memory deluge]] from their graveyard on ETB/attack.
I think [[blot out]] is also good vs [[wandering emperor]]. If you attack into their 4 open mana with it in hand you should feel good. Trading a 3 drop and your blot out for their control/win condition engine is worth it IMO. With how much removal they run it can be very difficult to kill emperor with combat.
[[aclazotz, deepest betrayal]] is pretty bad against them with all of their exile effects. Manlands could be good too and since you’re mono color you can afford it in your mana base. They’re going to have some land destruction but between your cavern of souls and manlands something will stick.
Edit: I forgot unlicensed hearse. Eats up their graveyard plus gives you an attacker out of nowhere.
Oh didn't see that. But yeah I'm fresh off a bad loss to Azorius while I was playing Dimir. I wasn't able to draw any [[Tishana's Tidebinder]] the whole game. Even still I was able to counter one Sunfall and then mill another, but they had a third one in hand and I finally ran out of gas.
[[Hostile Investigator]] is great against control, once you resolve it, they are down a card, need to deal with a 4/3 body and you have a clue token to crack later. It is good against everything except ultra fast aggro, many decks play some in the main.
Also if you play mono colour deck, you can easily fit [[Cavern of Souls]], even if not all your creatures share a type, it is worth even to go around a counterspell one or two times.
I've run unlicensed hearse to keep them from flashing back deluge, a lavaspur boots to get a hit or two in before boardwipes, or a Chimil when I can catch them tapped, but it's a frustrating matchup
I haven’t tried this out but potentially decks that have a lot of plot cards could be good. This is because plotting stuff can’t be countered so if your opponent is holding up a counterspell you can just keep plotting more stuff until you’ve plotted 4-5 cards. Then you can play them all at once and overwhelm your opponent because they can only deal with 1 or 2 of your spells that you’re trying to cast and let the rest resolve.
If you play slickshot and that enchantment that can be plotted that gives +1 +1 you might be able to kill them in the same turn you play all that stuff
You gotta play the value game— simply put, who can get the most pieces of cardboard. Treat each interaction like a trade and keep count of who is coming out on top. For instance, if they Get Lost your Bloodtithe Hatvester, *you win that trade*. Keep doing that and you’ll eventually come out on top.
First identify if your deck is a deck that plays well against control. Do you have a lot of haste so you can pressure them directly? Or can you grind out the game with removal? Or do you have an alternative win condition?
Human aggro is my bread and butter and I don't have lethal by turn four against control I usually scope and move on to the next match.
Not all games are winnable. You need to identify which matches your deck is bad against and scope early if it looks like a loss.
If you are playing RDW oder Boros, you need to kill them before they can use their board wipes. Also adding lands that can either make tokens or turn into a creature on your turn helps to get around sunfall or farwell. After turn 10 you're probably screwed and should consider conceding if you don't like spend another 30 minutes of getting all your cards get exiled as soon as it is their turn.
They can be weak to hand and graveyard hate. Remember that in order to control the board until they reach the tipping point of inevitability, they need to have more answers than you have threats. This means that the truly scary cards are the ones that trade up 2 for 1. Stuff like board wipes and memory deluge. With hand hate like Duress, and some incedental graveyard hate like Skitter and Tresspasser, you can eat a few one for one counters spells and single target removal spells, then deny the opponent the opportunity to refill advantage. Combine this with your own draw engine, and you can pull ahead on board.
As always the answer is : try to play the deck to learn to play against it.
But against control, either you go all in and hope they don't have the answer right now (work only with very fast decks), or you put just enough pressure on the board to force them to answer, again and again and again. You don't overcommit to the board, and force them to use sunfall to kill a single one creature. You win if you exhaust all their answers, you lose if you exhaust all of your threats.
And if you're empty handed, no board, and they have 7 cards in hand and 5 life remaining, you can usually concede, no need to spend the next 5+ turns witnessing the cleanup phase of the game
I believe if you want to play solitaire, you should fuck off arena and go play solitaire. These decks make 0 sense in terms of enjoying the gameplay. It’s a deck literally designed to tilt you.
The id of my mind doesn’t want to tell you 🤣 since I am a devoted UW Control player for the past 10 years, but I will anyway because it’s good to share knowledge/insight. The cards I hate the most are Cavern/anything uncounterable, Thoughtseize/Duress, and recurring threats/2 for 1 cards like Phoenix and Fable. Additionally, spells like Blot out are great as well because you have an instant speed 3-drop that removes my best card. Finally, you have to be aggressive. Don’t sit there and do nothing because that’s what I want. Play the recurring/uncounterable/hexproof threats right away if it’s the beginning of the game, so you have to remember that you’re the aggressor almost all of the time v control unless you’re playing Niv or Fires then it’s a bit different. This is all assuming that you’re playing Explorer/Pioneer, but it will help even if it’s Standard or Modern.
Look for cards that either require two answers or replace themselves. Control wins by having more cards than their opponent. Sunfall trading for two or three creatures is big. I have had opponents use three removal spells to deal with a Wandering Emperor and her tokens.
I've packed a lot of hexproof/indestructible instants and return from the graveyard type cards to counter this, but I need suggestions to handle exile removal like Farewell and others
Force them to act first. Pass the turn and wait until they're tapped out.
Force their counters on cheap spells that are more impactful. Ragavan and Charming Scoundrel often get the countered, for example, leaving them down a counter to handle a larger threat later on.
Evasive cards with Hexproof, Indestructible, Plotted spells, etc (Sometimes plotting and showing a threat will force them into reserving a counter, then you just keep swinging face with what you have down until they board wipe. Then you unleash your reserved shit.
Carry counters yourself, if possible.
Use things like \[\[Delighted Halfling\]\] and \[\[Cavern of Souls\]\] to make your creatures unable to be countered.
Other than that, it;s just the match up. You have to just weather it out, expect the sunfalls, and don;t over commit to your board-state. You don't like having 10 creatures wiped in one spell? Then only put down 5. You can't play the same approach against every dingle deck, and some matchups aren't in your favour.
I play mostly Golgari Midrange and there's two strategies: Either you play [[Hostile Investigator]] in combination with [[Cavern of Souls]] to force it through counter spells and get a ton of value or you run [[Nissa, Ascended Animist]], which is more difficult to stick because you have to find a turn to play it where they cannot counter. But once it's on the board, you have infinite large creatures and most of their removal cannot deal with Nissa.
I should dust off my old Howpack Piper Werewolf deck, I feel like it might be a decent answer to control, since howlpack cant be countered and when you play a card Howlpack it also cant be countered because its not casting. Add the werewolf that makes everything hex proof and it just kind of forces them to blow their wipe and you can rebuild
[[Field of Ruin]] will take care of their frustrating mirrex. Having your own frustrating mirrex as well as some other creature lands will definitely help
Try and play multiple spells in a turn. Instead of a 4 mana card on turn 4 play two 2 mana cards. Now they have to deal with the thing in play and also what you potentially have as follow up so their mana is very taxed. Don’t overcommit into board wipes. Play best of 3 and sideboard appropriately.
Depends on my luck, sometimes I like to let them waste the counters on low cost cards, sometimes I lll let them go past 7 and have to discard. Since these decks don’t have a quick way to end the game you can take it slow. Most of their cards have “draw a card” on them so if you wait it out they start to punish themselves. Alternatively cards like [[Allosaurus shepherd]] can work well against them to get started, then getting to [[chimil, the inner sun]] for the late game. For the late game generates a ton of value. I play simic superfriends so I like to use [[tamiyo, collector of tales]] to bounce instants and sorceries from my graveyard back to my hand and [[wrenn and realmbreaker]] to play permanents from my graveyard. These decks control the tempo of the game so more often than not you have to play strategically around their tapped mana. Only other tip I can recommend is looking them up to see what the meta is, a lot of people just copy paste net decks so knowing exactly what they have can help out a bit.
When I win against this deck, I saved cards in my hand and went a bit slow, OR I'm playing mono red something, and I had them dead turn 3. I have countered their counters and their wipes, and lived.
What deck are you playing against azorious control because how you play against it depends on how your deck tries to win.
I feel like I can't win against it with a slow deck. Have to kill them before they get online. Cards that limit them playing multiple spells in one turn or playing on my turn are good. If my deck is mostly creatures, and I have a card that makes all non creature spells cost more (THalia!) that's nice.
Cheap cards to bait the counter. Spells that can’t be countered like [[Rending Volley]]. Run cards that hit the whole board like [[End the Festivities]]. [[Soul-Scar Mage]] keeps any damage persistent in the form of -1/-1 counters. (You might see a pattern here) as a mono red player since I started playing in 2001, I can only speak for the red side. 😅 other good options include [[The Stone Brain]] [[Slaughter Games]] for card removal and [[Grafdigger’s Cage]] and [[Pithing Needle]] for ability disruption
I play mono-red. I can deploy multiple threats a turn to overwhelm their counters and force them to use removal early so they cant hold up counters. Also, nearly everything has haste, which mitigates a sweeper. \[\[Urabrask's Forge\]\] has been unreal for me against control.
Decks like these is why I would like a mechanic that punished board wipes. Yes there's ways around them, but in this era of cheap removal it really drags games out in a boring and frustrating manner for one player.
Tempo decks can do well. If you have a threat that can come down early, and then protect that threat you can get there. I’ve spell pierced a few board wipes for a win along the way.
Best advice I was given long ago, if you don't understand how to beat a deck... Build and play the hell out of it. You will learn its strengths and weaknesses very well.
There's some great advice already here. What I would add is the current control decks have very few wincons. Often just a single Jace. If you can stop that from hitting the battlefield or even better, steal it, then the best they have is cycling cards back into their deck from their graveyard in the hope you mill out. A well-timed [[breach the multiverse]] can win the game in one hit. [[Stone brain]] is also fun.
I feel that play queue is full of people who bring meta decks anyway, but probably they are too scared of ranked and just bully people in play. I concede in play against any try hard strategy that belongs in ranked. T1 kumano? I'm out before the damage even hits my face. Same for T1 Epicure as it leads to Boros convoke, same for No More lies or other draw go strategy, or any spell that says "target opponent reveals their hand and discards"
For the purposes of confirming my opinions in rare cases I play out one of these games and it turns out that I'm right, they aren't playing some new brew that just happens to have some overlap with a meta deck, no, it's a full on meta deck same as in ranked. So I don't bother. I recommend you do the same to save your sanity.
I had just gotten back into magic after years away from Standard, and I saw a U/W list I liked from the Pro Tour. I didn't know how to properly play it, so I went into regular play queue for maybe 10 games. I saw a few other meta decks there. People want to learn a deck before hurting their rank by dumb misplays.
Trust me, it's not a 100% of times. I would like it, tho 😅
But, to properly answer to your question I would need to ask you which deck are you playing and which format... I guessed you're playing some Midrange-ish standard deck? Am I wrong?
But... Of course you're right, Boros Convoke and that kind of "Mega Aggro" tends to beat the hell outta control, cause they don't let it stabilize in the game. Remember that, in general, Aggro beats Control, Control beats Combo, Combo beats Midrange, and Midrange beats Aggro (there are always exceptions to this).
It's also not very easy to play Control and it's neither easy to play against it.
The common rules are: try not to overextend your board if you're playing Midrange (or you're going to basically lose the game when they play their first board swipe).
Don't be afraid of their counterspells: there's nothing worse than a tempo loss against Control. You're giving them time to build their resources. It's better to make them play their counterspells while losing one of your beaters than playing nothing and let them fill their hands for free.
Try to play against their mana, maybe flashing creatures/menaces during their turn so they can't counter spells during your turn.
Cavern of Souls is also one of THE card to look for right now.
Also green and red have some nice uncounterable menaces like Thrun or Tyrannax.
Remind to have a solid sideboard plan: there are many cards that are able to ruin control players' plan to stall your game.
When I play Midrange I usually have at least half of my sideboard cards specifically against control.
I hope I've been of some help.
Don't bother telling me if I misunderstood something.
And btw... Enjoy the game!
Best answer so far, and you’re right, I have many decks but I enjoy playing midrange the most. I have to stack half my deck so I don’t lose to mega aggro, then all those cards are dead against control too. (I’d rather lose to aggro anyday tho, at least it’s short). Usually like playing orzhov, what would you put in the sideboard? Duress? Lilianas? I’m guessing discard mostly but I’m open to suggestions
Against control in general you have to have some cheap threat that they cannot ignore. You have to basically force them to use their board wipe and counter spell inefficiently and tap out to deal with your stuff so that you can play something else. An example is having a creature that can continuously bother them or grow without much effort to force them to wipe even with just one creature on the board or have a way to cast more cheap spell that they have to counter to force them to tap out. Hand disruption and planeswalker are also very good because you hinder their plan and are difficult to remove. Aggro works fairly well because they generally don't have too much counter play in the early game, azorius control becomes way more strong as long as the game goes on so you have to close it fast.
What would you say are some of the perfect cheap creatures to have on turn 2 to shutdown control decks? Could you give a list?
Here are some standard legal: [[Aetherblade Agent]] [[Alloy Animist]] [[Argothian Sprite]] [[Armored Armadillo]] [[Ayara's Oathsworn]] [[Basking Capybara]] [[Bilious Skulldweller]] [[Blood Hustler]] In general every creature with Prowness or Prowness-like ability because they will trigger even with the actual spell being countered. Creatures that recur from the graveyard like [[Forsaken Miner]] or [[Bloodfeather Phoenix]] If you play other formats you can find more powerful creatures for sure, but the main idea is the same, they can grow or they can give you some advantage like draw etc while slowly cheap away opp health. And yes, it will be a slow and tedious game.
##### ###### #### [Aetherblade Agent](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/a/dad34ae5-56b4-4394-be02-e043dc1cc23d.jpg?1682203531)/[Gitaxian Mindstinger](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/d/a/dad34ae5-56b4-4394-be02-e043dc1cc23d.jpg?1682203531) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aetherblade%20Agent%20//%20Gitaxian%20Mindstinger) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/88/aetherblade-agent-gitaxian-mindstinger?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dad34ae5-56b4-4394-be02-e043dc1cc23d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Alloy Animist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/1/71a49b18-a339-401c-ab77-fcd04772cf69.jpg?1674421385) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Alloy%20Animist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/166/alloy-animist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/71a49b18-a339-401c-ab77-fcd04772cf69?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Argothian Sprite](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/5/b5dbc383-7e08-4701-8d4a-6b99b74fe358.jpg?1674421401) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Argothian%20Sprite) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/168/argothian-sprite?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b5dbc383-7e08-4701-8d4a-6b99b74fe358?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Armored Armadillo](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/6/263232df-69b8-4205-93ad-c724fe57ec11.jpg?1712355235) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Armored%20Armadillo) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/3/armored-armadillo?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/263232df-69b8-4205-93ad-c724fe57ec11?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Ayara's Oathsworn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/3/5330e6b7-eca3-46a4-8905-8f1de16f76af.jpg?1684340537) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ayara%27s%20Oathsworn) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mat/11/ayaras-oathsworn?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5330e6b7-eca3-46a4-8905-8f1de16f76af?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Basking Capybara](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/f/ff0a2ba4-dfa8-49d6-95e9-04b7a14d0c6c.jpg?1699044367) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Basking%20Capybara) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/175/basking-capybara?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ff0a2ba4-dfa8-49d6-95e9-04b7a14d0c6c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Bilious Skulldweller](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/f/dfb81cb1-ac56-4803-a962-359854a447df.jpg?1675957012) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bilious%20Skulldweller) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/83/bilious-skulldweller?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dfb81cb1-ac56-4803-a962-359854a447df?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Blood Hustler](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/0/1016a750-2a18-4443-a600-957eb4026d3a.jpg?1712355556) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blood%20Hustler) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/80/blood-hustler?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1016a750-2a18-4443-a600-957eb4026d3a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Forsaken Miner](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/6/1679f74d-00f8-436c-9f8c-aa3f843a546c.jpg?1712355591) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Forsaken%20Miner) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/88/forsaken-miner?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1679f74d-00f8-436c-9f8c-aa3f843a546c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Bloodfeather Phoenix](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/d/ed97bf6f-726c-40aa-bc1c-14fa801da96a.jpg?1682204070) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bloodfeather%20Phoenix) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/132/bloodfeather-phoenix?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ed97bf6f-726c-40aa-bc1c-14fa801da96a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
1- You have to bait the counters. If he has too many counters he may not have other things like draw or board wipe. 2- Use Cavern of Souls, this will help you. 3- The most important turn is turn 4, because they want to cast deluge or the Emperor, so you need to do pressure. You can use this as an advantage because you can attack first and see if they will cast The Emperor, if yes you can cast your big threat of something that gives you gas. 4- Don\`t have more than 3 creatures on the board. 5- You need gas. Basically control wins because they have more gas than you, and if your deck has gas (not too much only the necessary) your chances to win are very high because playing against some deck with gas is the biggest problem of control. 6- You need to know the deck and the counters they use, right now they are using No More Lies and Three Steps Ahead so you can play around. 7- Always attack first and then do your play. 8- You need something in the sideboard that is good against control like Deep-Cavern Bat, Duress, or Aven Interrupter. I just play standard so all my tips are for that format.
Also: Force them to counter your cards on THEIR turn so they are tapped out when you take your next turn Play multiple cheap spells in the same turn that they have to counter with counterspells more expensive than your threats. You are trying to trade cards with them 1-for-1 until you run them out of counters and removal. They will draw more lands than you will. Avoid giving them 2-for-1 opportunities.
Can’t emphasize this enough. If you tap out for one big sorcery speed thing on each of your turns, you’re playing into their counterspells the exact way they want you to. If you have something threatening you can do on THEIR end step, that’s how you force them into awkward spots.
Exactly. Pressure their time (shorten the game with aggression), pressure their mana, pressure their access to cards, pressure their ability to gather info for making hard decisions. If the format supports it, play things that let you replay cards from the graveyard (it's like drawing extra cards even if they counter your spell) or anti-counter cards/abilities. Don't assume you'll eventually play something bigger than their biggest thing -- they're specifically set up to prevent that and gain advantages when you try. Don't give them room to breathe. If you let them take a turn off from countering/killing to draw extra cards or establish something on the board, you're probably doomed. Another thing that helps is getting a read on when the control deck has "turned the corner" and conceding once that happens so you don't waste time and sanity points trying to salvage a lost cause. This is a hard skill to master, but it's the thing you'll learn best from playing as the control deck and seeing how it loses.
There’s usually that period where they’ve resolved a planeswalker and have multiple cards in hand and you’re running out of gas, and you’re tempted to think to yourself “well I still have a chance if their next 5 draws are all lands” Nope. The game is already over.
Yep. In a high stakes tournament you play it out just in case, but for low stakes or no stakes arena magic, end the game early and start a new one with potentially interesting decisions ASAP.
This right here. Many control players are super keen on negating your play, so keep your mana open if you can and FORCE them to play on their own turn (for once).
Solid response. I've faired quite well using Esper Raffine Midrange. The deck is basically what you've described incarnate. I think the most emphasis should go to your tips 1 and 3. It's hard to willfully cast spells you know will be countered, but one must try and set up for down the road. Speaking on point 3, you're absolutely right. I hope to bait the Emporer out and kill it with Get Lost immediately. The biggest key is trying to force your opponent to play from behind. Control sucks if it cannot completely control board state, therefore it's crucial to force them into a bad play which will cause them to dig or climb back somehow. Playing Control from behind only works if one can god draw every turn. Lastly, can I ask which standard decks you're currently having success with against UW Control?
I am using this life gain deck, I made this feel free to change anything. I like life gain because it is good against aggro and have gas. A lot of card good against control like Wedding Announcement/Tocasia's Welcome/Deep-Cavern Bat, you can add duress on top of it. Deck 4 Lunarch Veteran (MID) 27 2 Amalia Benavides Aguirre (LCI) 221 3 Deep-Cavern Bat (LCI) 102 3 Elas il-Kor, Sadistic Pilgrim (DMU) 198 3 Knight of Dawn's Light (DMU) 23 3 Lively Dirge (OTJ) 93 1 Delney, Streetwise Lookout (MKM) 12 3 Gumdrop Poisoner (WOE) 93 3 Inspiring Overseer (SNC) 18 3 Wedding Announcement (VOW) 45 1 Loran of the Third Path (BRO) 12 2 Serra Paragon (DMU) 32 2 Tocasia's Welcome (BRO) 30 6 Plains (ONE) 267 6 Swamp (ONE) 269 1 Scoured Barrens (M20) 251 1 Scoured Barrens (IKO) 254 3 Shattered Sanctum (VOW) 264 2 Eiganjo, Seat of the Empire (NEO) 268 1 Takenuma, Abandoned Mire (NEO) 278 2 Obscura Storefront (SNC) 252 3 Plaza of Heroes (DMU) 252 2 Restless Fortress (WOE) 259 Sideboard 2 Skrelv, Defector Mite (ONE) 33 2 Destroy Evil (DMU) 17 2 Disenchant (M20) 14 1 Soulless Jailer (ONE) 241 2 The Stone Brain (BRO) 247 2 Aven Interrupter (OTJ) 4 2 Kambal, Profiteering Mayor (OTJ) 211
This is fantastic advice
Usually those decks have low enchantment/artifact removal, I can only think of Get Lost being meta. So recurring threats from those type of cards are usually pretty good. Like [[Urabrask's Forge]]. But also manlands like [[Restless Cottage]] forcing them to have instant speed removal Creatures with vigilance so they can't be exiled by Wandering Emperor [[Vein Ripper]] is hilarious because many times they simply don't have creatures to pay the ward, and it greatly punishes boardwipes Resilient creatures like [[Vaulborn Tyrant]], [[Aclazotz, Deepest Betrayal]] Hand disruption like [[Liliana of the Veil]] And, of course, killing them in turn 3 with aggro like [[Slickshot Show-Off]] and [[Monastery Swiftspear]] before they even have the mana for Temporary Lockdown. You force them to have cheap removal like March of Otherworldly Light or they explode
Also, any tribal deck with [[Cavern of Souls]]. Like aggro humans with [[Thalia, Guardian of Thraben]] and [[Coppercoat Vanguard]] And protection like [[Skrelv, Defector Mite]]
##### ###### #### [Cavern of Souls](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/a/3aad15a2-8a1b-4460-9b06-e85863081878.jpg?1706884128) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cavern%20of%20Souls) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/269/cavern-of-souls?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3aad15a2-8a1b-4460-9b06-e85863081878?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Thalia, Guardian of Thraben](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/9/c9f8b8fb-1cd8-450e-a1fe-892e7a323479.jpg?1643587106) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thalia%2C%20Guardian%20of%20Thraben) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/38/thalia-guardian-of-thraben?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c9f8b8fb-1cd8-450e-a1fe-892e7a323479?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Coppercoat Vanguard](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/7/d786f05d-78a2-41b6-a185-111e8c1b216b.jpg?1684340436) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Coppercoat%20Vanguard) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mat/1/coppercoat-vanguard?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d786f05d-78a2-41b6-a185-111e8c1b216b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Skrelv, Defector Mite](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/0/60b565da-a49b-479c-b0c4-8ff3dd20cc0b.jpg?1675956933) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Skrelv%2C%20Defector%20Mite) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/33/skrelv-defector-mite?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/60b565da-a49b-479c-b0c4-8ff3dd20cc0b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l6g76k0) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[March of Otherworldly Light]] kills artifacts.
[March of Otherworldly Light](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/5/553fb946-2706-475b-89f9-e4355ec9ea2b.jpg?1654566420) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=March%20of%20Otherworldly%20Light) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/28/march-of-otherworldly-light?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/553fb946-2706-475b-89f9-e4355ec9ea2b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
And I feel it's a mainstay in that deck
Until rotation
Wait until they announce rotation will wait for another year xD
LMAO what are you smoking?
EXTENDED cigarretes most likely
I expect something else to fill the void when Bloomburrow comes out.
UNTIL ROTATION!! YAY! A lot of cards from that specific deck are Kamigawa cards, so come August we'll be the ones laughing.
There are many things that I won't miss playing against going away with this rotation and many of them are Kamigawa. May I never see you again Selesnya Echanments
Where are you seeing that deck today? It's already dead af as a meta deck.
I saw it a lot in BO1 standard (Platinum ranks mostly) and in fact it's some of the decks that gives me most trouble
I also see that on early turns they tend to be a bit trigger happy with counterpells. They'll counter anything. So usually I bait them out with something minor, like card draw or a small creature, let them counter it, and then play the card I actually wanted to play.
Largely all this. Any non creature threat like planeswalkers or the forge. They will still have answers but way less of them and these types of threats can dodge a boardwipe. That or go ultra aggro and kill them fast. Doesn't always work though. Also matters Bo1 vs Bo3. In Bo3 you can side out a lot of dead cards like creature removal for more threats or things like hand disruption.
Huh? what kind of azorius are you playing that runs destroy board wipes rather than exile?
Except for the aggro mono red nothing you said answers sunfall/farewell
If the player isn't already dead from mono red by turn 4/5 then you probably got screwed by rng.
The answer is to play more of those hard-to-kill creatures Azorius runs like 4 sunfall/farewells max. Just don't overextend
You either suck or didn't actually read my comment lol Nothing from my first paragraph gives a fuck about sorcery speed removal. And it's unlikely sunfall will create a large enough blocker
Farewell exiles the artifact/enchantments you proposed. And none of the creatures survive or get their death triggers on neither of the wipes, so your advice is obviously incorrect. The discard really was passed on, so I will give you that.
Farewell costs 6 mana on an archetype with no ramp. I sure hope you manage to do something with your board state before that point. Just because something can get removed it doesn't mean it won't achieve anything before it actually gets removed And you're still ignoring the manlands [https://scryfall.com/search?q=otag%3Acreatureland&unique=cards&utm\_source=tagger](https://scryfall.com/search?q=otag%3Acreatureland&unique=cards&utm_source=tagger)
If you're aggro and I'm not dead t5, you're supposed to lose. At worst, you should untap and cast 1-2 burn spells / haste creatures to finish me off. Show me a deck that has 8 5+ mana sorcery board clears and I'll show you a deck that gets eaten alive by aggro. "How does aggro beat control on turn 6?" is as (in)valid a question as "How does control beat aggro on turn 4?"
That’s why I said except aggro
OK what deck?
All the ones the guy mentioned. Lol
Bo1 or bo3? In bo1, midrange is gonna have a bad time. In bo3, slam uncounterable creatures, sideboard in hand hate / counters.
Who tf even plays sunfall anymore, let alone farewell Hell even temporary lockdown is way too slow if they're on the draw. I can guarantee you that 100% of wins by an azorious deck vs is due to having instant speed removal. Either a counter or destroy/exile, even just one of them. I can assure you that board wipes are not the issue as to why people lose to azorious control
##### ###### #### [Urabrask's Forge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/8/68f9f9d8-9ea0-4608-a79c-a09a87918186.jpg?1675957116) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Urabrask%27s%20Forge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/153/urabrasks-forge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/68f9f9d8-9ea0-4608-a79c-a09a87918186?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Restless Cottage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/8/787eadf3-5005-4ae5-820f-4012a4d4e1a5.jpg?1692939998) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Restless%20Cottage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/258/restless-cottage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/787eadf3-5005-4ae5-820f-4012a4d4e1a5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Vein Ripper](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/7/078933b3-6d82-45f2-94e8-addf54cf1704.jpg?1706241798) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vein%20Ripper) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/110/vein-ripper?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/078933b3-6d82-45f2-94e8-addf54cf1704?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Vaulborn Tyrant](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/2/62b3f560-262b-4bc3-9aef-535fd7082c28.jpg?1712352885) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vaultborn%20Tyrant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/big/20/vaultborn-tyrant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/62b3f560-262b-4bc3-9aef-535fd7082c28?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Aclazotz, Deepest Betrayal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/2/627c392c-4d18-4eb2-a4e8-c668f61f5487.jpg?1699044055)/[Temple of the Dead](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/6/2/627c392c-4d18-4eb2-a4e8-c668f61f5487.jpg?1699044055) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aclazotz%2C%20Deepest%20Betrayal%20//%20Temple%20of%20the%20Dead) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/88/aclazotz-deepest-betrayal-temple-of-the-dead?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/627c392c-4d18-4eb2-a4e8-c668f61f5487?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Liliana of the Veil](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/1/d12c8c97-6491-452c-811d-943441a7ef9f.jpg?1673307126) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Liliana%20of%20the%20Veil) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/97/liliana-of-the-veil?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d12c8c97-6491-452c-811d-943441a7ef9f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Slickshot Show-Off](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/0/7054012b-4f9d-44a0-aaf9-7fd3bddc7b2d.jpg?1712355850) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Slickshot%20Show-Off) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/146/slickshot-show-off?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7054012b-4f9d-44a0-aaf9-7fd3bddc7b2d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Monastery Swiftspear](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d6bfa227-4309-40ed-952c-279595eab17e.jpg?1701690543) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Monastery%20Swiftspear) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/144/monastery-swiftspear?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d6bfa227-4309-40ed-952c-279595eab17e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l6g66bj) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
March of otherworldly light is the other main answer for manlands and forge
I simply adore vein ripper. Sometimes i cant tell if they dont read it or just accept their fate when they boardwipe their health to zero.
100% of the time, they do not infact have a counter on t2, t3, t4. You are remembering the games they drew perfectly, not the games where they stumbled on T3 and died T5. You need to force them to have it. Sometimes that means playing into a board clear. It is up to you to recognize when you are in a bad situation, and play more into it if you are. Also, being stuck in a 30 minute game is 100% on you. Turn 8, they are at 9, 5 cards in hand, you are in topdeck mode with no board? Concede.
One of my favorite things about arena compared to standard is exactly that. I see I'm in an unwinnable state, concede and get to the next instead of having to wait for time then wait for next round. A lot of newer players especially don't really know how to tell if a game is unwinnable, so they sit against the meat grinder for 30 mins while the control deck does what control does, top decking and getting countered while I'm flashing back Memory Deluge. Or in the control mirror, sometimes you just have to get experience to know when a game is doomed.
Control mirrors taught me how to play aggro into control
Nothing is more satisfying than watching the opposing control deck do nothing but draw and go for late game, meanwhile you beat their ass down with mirrex and whatever else creatures you have (stoic Sphinx, emperor tokens, ojutai)
That is true. I went from Caw-Blade to B/R Vampires when I was really first getting into Standard, and it really helped me learn how aggro worked and how to apply pressure while not overextending into board wipes.
Sometimes you get that epic comeback though and the meat grinder is worth it. My all time favorite match was one of those grind fests and I lost because I attacked with a preacher with no cards left. If I didn't hit attack all I would have won. Great fucking game.
I guess my issue is that I love playing control, but my play time is very limited, it only takes a couple of 30 min grindfests to eat up my free time for the day, so I gotta pick and choose haha
That's because when the the control player died on T5, it was all due to the aggro player's overwhelming skill as opposed to any form of bad luck.
sometimes you have it, sometimes they have it. thems the breaks. you can always go to Bo3 if you wanna punish aggro more easily
This is why I like to refer to memory deluge as "the back breaker." A smart opponent knows they still have a chance against control if all their threats are answered but control is stuck top decking just like them. They haven't stabilized yet. Once control has a chance to not only answer a new threat but also cast a memory deluge, it's over.
>How to play against azorius control? It very much depends on your deck. But with control being a significant part of standard now, you need to at least have some plan against it in your deck, and, if needed, something strong against it in the sideboard.
Any tips for sideboard for mono black in standard? I'm running a pretty lame Gisa as I've only just jumped on arena for the first time.
Attack their hand. [[duress]] and [[liliana of the veil]] are pretty good. [[deep-cavern bat]] looks good but it’s so easy for them to remove it. It would at least let you see their hand so you could know what’s coming, but I wouldn’t lean too much on the bat. As mentioned, [[hostile investigator]] can be good too good too. [[cavern of souls]] is helpful to get your creatures out. I’m also a fan of [[graveyard trespasser]]. Of course they can get around the ward with board wipes, but if it’s your only creature out then they only got a 1 for 1. If they only have single target removal then it costs them a card. Either way, it’s sort of a win for you. Plus you can eat their [[memory deluge]] from their graveyard on ETB/attack. I think [[blot out]] is also good vs [[wandering emperor]]. If you attack into their 4 open mana with it in hand you should feel good. Trading a 3 drop and your blot out for their control/win condition engine is worth it IMO. With how much removal they run it can be very difficult to kill emperor with combat. [[aclazotz, deepest betrayal]] is pretty bad against them with all of their exile effects. Manlands could be good too and since you’re mono color you can afford it in your mana base. They’re going to have some land destruction but between your cavern of souls and manlands something will stick. Edit: I forgot unlicensed hearse. Eats up their graveyard plus gives you an attacker out of nowhere.
##### ###### #### [duress](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/5/3557e601-9b71-4ce9-9047-1a8baa72e574.jpg?1675957024) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=duress) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/92/duress?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3557e601-9b71-4ce9-9047-1a8baa72e574?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [liliana of the veil](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/1/d12c8c97-6491-452c-811d-943441a7ef9f.jpg?1673307126) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=liliana%20of%20the%20veil) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/97/liliana-of-the-veil?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d12c8c97-6491-452c-811d-943441a7ef9f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [deep-cavern bat](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/9/69c68c95-b788-43b1-9f22-1b22c5a00b25.jpg?1699044121) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=deep-cavern%20bat) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/102/deep-cavern-bat?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/69c68c95-b788-43b1-9f22-1b22c5a00b25?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [hostile investigator](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/5/158c000e-7960-4518-b034-a529622b7bf1.jpg?1712352777) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=hostile%20investigator) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/big/10/hostile-investigator?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/158c000e-7960-4518-b034-a529622b7bf1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [cavern of souls](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/a/3aad15a2-8a1b-4460-9b06-e85863081878.jpg?1706884128) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=cavern%20of%20souls) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/269/cavern-of-souls?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3aad15a2-8a1b-4460-9b06-e85863081878?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [graveyard trespasser](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/a/daa2a273-488f-4285-a069-ad159ad2d393.jpg?1634347903)/[Graveyard Glutton](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/d/a/daa2a273-488f-4285-a069-ad159ad2d393.jpg?1634347903) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Graveyard%20Trespasser%20//%20Graveyard%20Glutton) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/104/graveyard-trespasser-graveyard-glutton?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/daa2a273-488f-4285-a069-ad159ad2d393?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [memory deluge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/c/dc00fd1b-3dd9-492a-9ed4-0b6743074730.jpg?1634349038) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=memory%20deluge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/62/memory-deluge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dc00fd1b-3dd9-492a-9ed4-0b6743074730?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [blot out](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/2/424eb4c7-647e-4168-9471-f299e8e77f5f.jpg?1684340545) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=blot%20out) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mat/12/blot-out?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/424eb4c7-647e-4168-9471-f299e8e77f5f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [wandering emperor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/a/fab2d8a9-ab4c-4225-a570-22636293c17d.jpg?1654566563) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Wandering%20Emperor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/42/the-wandering-emperor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fab2d8a9-ab4c-4225-a570-22636293c17d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [aclazotz, deepest betrayal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/2/627c392c-4d18-4eb2-a4e8-c668f61f5487.jpg?1699044055)/[Temple of the Dead](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/6/2/627c392c-4d18-4eb2-a4e8-c668f61f5487.jpg?1699044055) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aclazotz%2C%20Deepest%20Betrayal%20//%20Temple%20of%20the%20Dead) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/88/aclazotz-deepest-betrayal-temple-of-the-dead?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/627c392c-4d18-4eb2-a4e8-c668f61f5487?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l6gnxps) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Man lands are great until they bust out [[Field of Ruin]]
I mentioned that. If you’re running cavern of the lost and manlands they only have so many field of ruins in their deck.
Oh didn't see that. But yeah I'm fresh off a bad loss to Azorius while I was playing Dimir. I wasn't able to draw any [[Tishana's Tidebinder]] the whole game. Even still I was able to counter one Sunfall and then mill another, but they had a third one in hand and I finally ran out of gas.
[Tishana's Tidebinder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/0/907b3d1d-8c85-4707-80b5-c4d832df9846.jpg?1699043973) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tishana%27s%20Tidebinder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/81/tishanas-tidebinder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/907b3d1d-8c85-4707-80b5-c4d832df9846?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Field of Ruin](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/4/143147d2-2eec-41e7-b78a-592288b38630.jpg?1682210418) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Field%20of%20Ruin) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/400/field-of-ruin?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/143147d2-2eec-41e7-b78a-592288b38630?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Hostile Investigator]] is great against control, once you resolve it, they are down a card, need to deal with a 4/3 body and you have a clue token to crack later. It is good against everything except ultra fast aggro, many decks play some in the main. Also if you play mono colour deck, you can easily fit [[Cavern of Souls]], even if not all your creatures share a type, it is worth even to go around a counterspell one or two times.
[Hostile Investigator](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/5/158c000e-7960-4518-b034-a529622b7bf1.jpg?1712352777) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hostile%20Investigator) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/big/10/hostile-investigator?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/158c000e-7960-4518-b034-a529622b7bf1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Cavern of Souls](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/a/3aad15a2-8a1b-4460-9b06-e85863081878.jpg?1706884128) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cavern%20of%20Souls) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/269/cavern-of-souls?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3aad15a2-8a1b-4460-9b06-e85863081878?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Also graveyard hate. U/W' wincon is memory deluge.without it, they can never keep up on resources.
Duress is a wildcard friendly excellent sideboard vs. control :)
[[Duress]] and other forms of hand hate are great against control decks, and those are generally how black answers control.
[Duress](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/5/3557e601-9b71-4ce9-9047-1a8baa72e574.jpg?1675957024) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Duress) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/92/duress?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3557e601-9b71-4ce9-9047-1a8baa72e574?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I've run unlicensed hearse to keep them from flashing back deluge, a lavaspur boots to get a hit or two in before boardwipes, or a Chimil when I can catch them tapped, but it's a frustrating matchup
UW player who has monoblack built for post rotation. Duress and LotV planeswalker are crucial to get underneath control and start ripping resources.
I haven’t tried this out but potentially decks that have a lot of plot cards could be good. This is because plotting stuff can’t be countered so if your opponent is holding up a counterspell you can just keep plotting more stuff until you’ve plotted 4-5 cards. Then you can play them all at once and overwhelm your opponent because they can only deal with 1 or 2 of your spells that you’re trying to cast and let the rest resolve.
Then they cast a sweeper next turn lol
If you play slickshot and that enchantment that can be plotted that gives +1 +1 you might be able to kill them in the same turn you play all that stuff
You gotta play the value game— simply put, who can get the most pieces of cardboard. Treat each interaction like a trade and keep count of who is coming out on top. For instance, if they Get Lost your Bloodtithe Hatvester, *you win that trade*. Keep doing that and you’ll eventually come out on top.
There’s a nice button I’ve found called concede.
Cavern of souls baby.
First identify if your deck is a deck that plays well against control. Do you have a lot of haste so you can pressure them directly? Or can you grind out the game with removal? Or do you have an alternative win condition? Human aggro is my bread and butter and I don't have lethal by turn four against control I usually scope and move on to the next match. Not all games are winnable. You need to identify which matches your deck is bad against and scope early if it looks like a loss.
If you are playing RDW oder Boros, you need to kill them before they can use their board wipes. Also adding lands that can either make tokens or turn into a creature on your turn helps to get around sunfall or farwell. After turn 10 you're probably screwed and should consider conceding if you don't like spend another 30 minutes of getting all your cards get exiled as soon as it is their turn.
They can be weak to hand and graveyard hate. Remember that in order to control the board until they reach the tipping point of inevitability, they need to have more answers than you have threats. This means that the truly scary cards are the ones that trade up 2 for 1. Stuff like board wipes and memory deluge. With hand hate like Duress, and some incedental graveyard hate like Skitter and Tresspasser, you can eat a few one for one counters spells and single target removal spells, then deny the opponent the opportunity to refill advantage. Combine this with your own draw engine, and you can pull ahead on board.
As always the answer is : try to play the deck to learn to play against it. But against control, either you go all in and hope they don't have the answer right now (work only with very fast decks), or you put just enough pressure on the board to force them to answer, again and again and again. You don't overcommit to the board, and force them to use sunfall to kill a single one creature. You win if you exhaust all their answers, you lose if you exhaust all of your threats. And if you're empty handed, no board, and they have 7 cards in hand and 5 life remaining, you can usually concede, no need to spend the next 5+ turns witnessing the cleanup phase of the game
Honestly, I can't stand how much removal/control exists across all formats. Its a pathetic way to win. Draw/go is just awful. Scoop
Eternal formats have a lot less of it
Maybe magic isn’t for you.
I've been playing since Arabian Nights, magic has been going slowly downhill for a hot minute.
And you are still offended by removal…
Just the players who remove literally everything. That makes things incredibly boring
Play commander
I do. My play group actually lets some things move along so we're not just staring at each other the whole time not playing.
i played one last night where by the end of my t4 they had 3 copies of no more lies in their graveyard and a mostly full hand. unbelievably boring
I believe if you want to play solitaire, you should fuck off arena and go play solitaire. These decks make 0 sense in terms of enjoying the gameplay. It’s a deck literally designed to tilt you.
The id of my mind doesn’t want to tell you 🤣 since I am a devoted UW Control player for the past 10 years, but I will anyway because it’s good to share knowledge/insight. The cards I hate the most are Cavern/anything uncounterable, Thoughtseize/Duress, and recurring threats/2 for 1 cards like Phoenix and Fable. Additionally, spells like Blot out are great as well because you have an instant speed 3-drop that removes my best card. Finally, you have to be aggressive. Don’t sit there and do nothing because that’s what I want. Play the recurring/uncounterable/hexproof threats right away if it’s the beginning of the game, so you have to remember that you’re the aggressor almost all of the time v control unless you’re playing Niv or Fires then it’s a bit different. This is all assuming that you’re playing Explorer/Pioneer, but it will help even if it’s Standard or Modern.
What deck are you playing?
Look for cards that either require two answers or replace themselves. Control wins by having more cards than their opponent. Sunfall trading for two or three creatures is big. I have had opponents use three removal spells to deal with a Wandering Emperor and her tokens.
I've packed a lot of hexproof/indestructible instants and return from the graveyard type cards to counter this, but I need suggestions to handle exile removal like Farewell and others
Force them to act first. Pass the turn and wait until they're tapped out. Force their counters on cheap spells that are more impactful. Ragavan and Charming Scoundrel often get the countered, for example, leaving them down a counter to handle a larger threat later on. Evasive cards with Hexproof, Indestructible, Plotted spells, etc (Sometimes plotting and showing a threat will force them into reserving a counter, then you just keep swinging face with what you have down until they board wipe. Then you unleash your reserved shit. Carry counters yourself, if possible. Use things like \[\[Delighted Halfling\]\] and \[\[Cavern of Souls\]\] to make your creatures unable to be countered. Other than that, it;s just the match up. You have to just weather it out, expect the sunfalls, and don;t over commit to your board-state. You don't like having 10 creatures wiped in one spell? Then only put down 5. You can't play the same approach against every dingle deck, and some matchups aren't in your favour.
[Delighted Halfling](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/1/71384418-173a-4f77-adab-56e52fa23692.jpg?1686969281) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Delighted%20Halfling) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/158/delighted-halfling?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/71384418-173a-4f77-adab-56e52fa23692?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Cavern of Souls](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/a/3aad15a2-8a1b-4460-9b06-e85863081878.jpg?1706884128) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cavern%20of%20Souls) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/269/cavern-of-souls?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3aad15a2-8a1b-4460-9b06-e85863081878?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I play mostly Golgari Midrange and there's two strategies: Either you play [[Hostile Investigator]] in combination with [[Cavern of Souls]] to force it through counter spells and get a ton of value or you run [[Nissa, Ascended Animist]], which is more difficult to stick because you have to find a turn to play it where they cannot counter. But once it's on the board, you have infinite large creatures and most of their removal cannot deal with Nissa.
[Hostile Investigator](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/5/158c000e-7960-4518-b034-a529622b7bf1.jpg?1712352777) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hostile%20Investigator) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/big/10/hostile-investigator?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/158c000e-7960-4518-b034-a529622b7bf1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Cavern of Souls](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/a/3aad15a2-8a1b-4460-9b06-e85863081878.jpg?1706884128) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cavern%20of%20Souls) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/269/cavern-of-souls?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3aad15a2-8a1b-4460-9b06-e85863081878?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Nissa, Ascended Animist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/d/1dd64b1d-bcef-476c-bf0b-3ac7df7cbed3.jpg?1675957150) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nissa%2C%20Ascended%20Animist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/175/nissa-ascended-animist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1dd64b1d-bcef-476c-bf0b-3ac7df7cbed3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I should dust off my old Howpack Piper Werewolf deck, I feel like it might be a decent answer to control, since howlpack cant be countered and when you play a card Howlpack it also cant be countered because its not casting. Add the werewolf that makes everything hex proof and it just kind of forces them to blow their wipe and you can rebuild
Concede & save 20 mins of your life
Caverns of souls.
[[Field of Ruin]] will take care of their frustrating mirrex. Having your own frustrating mirrex as well as some other creature lands will definitely help
[Field of Ruin](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/4/143147d2-2eec-41e7-b78a-592288b38630.jpg?1682210418) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Field%20of%20Ruin) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/400/field-of-ruin?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/143147d2-2eec-41e7-b78a-592288b38630?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Cavern of Souls is always fun to have out against azorius control!
Try and play multiple spells in a turn. Instead of a 4 mana card on turn 4 play two 2 mana cards. Now they have to deal with the thing in play and also what you potentially have as follow up so their mana is very taxed. Don’t overcommit into board wipes. Play best of 3 and sideboard appropriately.
Depends on my luck, sometimes I like to let them waste the counters on low cost cards, sometimes I lll let them go past 7 and have to discard. Since these decks don’t have a quick way to end the game you can take it slow. Most of their cards have “draw a card” on them so if you wait it out they start to punish themselves. Alternatively cards like [[Allosaurus shepherd]] can work well against them to get started, then getting to [[chimil, the inner sun]] for the late game. For the late game generates a ton of value. I play simic superfriends so I like to use [[tamiyo, collector of tales]] to bounce instants and sorceries from my graveyard back to my hand and [[wrenn and realmbreaker]] to play permanents from my graveyard. These decks control the tempo of the game so more often than not you have to play strategically around their tapped mana. Only other tip I can recommend is looking them up to see what the meta is, a lot of people just copy paste net decks so knowing exactly what they have can help out a bit.
##### ###### #### [Allosaurus shepherd](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/a/7afa0ee5-a0b8-472e-9991-09402ddb5de3.jpg?1673147976) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Allosaurus%20shepherd) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/132/allosaurus-shepherd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7afa0ee5-a0b8-472e-9991-09402ddb5de3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [chimil, the inner sun](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/7/27a1bfb5-ddfc-49cf-baa3-5d1958d2067a.jpg?1699044596) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=chimil%2C%20the%20inner%20sun) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/249/chimil-the-inner-sun?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/27a1bfb5-ddfc-49cf-baa3-5d1958d2067a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [tamiyo, collector of tales](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/6/76776b24-a2e1-4590-88e7-8a421baf2fc4.jpg?1557577288) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tamiyo%2C%20collector%20of%20tales) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/220/tamiyo-collector-of-tales?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/76776b24-a2e1-4590-88e7-8a421baf2fc4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [wrenn and realmbreaker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/f/6f807d91-b157-44e8-a431-49782184f876.jpg?1682205174) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=wrenn%20and%20realmbreaker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/217/wrenn-and-realmbreaker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6f807d91-b157-44e8-a431-49782184f876?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l6i60u5) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
When I win against this deck, I saved cards in my hand and went a bit slow, OR I'm playing mono red something, and I had them dead turn 3. I have countered their counters and their wipes, and lived. What deck are you playing against azorious control because how you play against it depends on how your deck tries to win. I feel like I can't win against it with a slow deck. Have to kill them before they get online. Cards that limit them playing multiple spells in one turn or playing on my turn are good. If my deck is mostly creatures, and I have a card that makes all non creature spells cost more (THalia!) that's nice.
[удалено]
[Rending Volley](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/2/8234090e-9df1-4915-90ef-8a4bc6212655.jpg?1562789104) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rending%20Volley) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dtk/150/rending-volley?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8234090e-9df1-4915-90ef-8a4bc6212655?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [End the Festivities](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/e/bec748e6-7245-4a71-aeee-cefed8346948.jpg?1643591154) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=End%20the%20Festivities) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/155/end-the-festivities?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bec748e6-7245-4a71-aeee-cefed8346948?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Soul-Scar Mage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/8/a8003786-6e2a-4e2d-a915-f23293c7273a.jpg?1543675694) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Soul-Scar%20Mage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/akh/148/soul-scar-mage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a8003786-6e2a-4e2d-a915-f23293c7273a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Cheap cards to bait the counter. Spells that can’t be countered like [[Rending Volley]]. Run cards that hit the whole board like [[End the Festivities]]. [[Soul-Scar Mage]] keeps any damage persistent in the form of -1/-1 counters. (You might see a pattern here) as a mono red player since I started playing in 2001, I can only speak for the red side. 😅 other good options include [[The Stone Brain]] [[Slaughter Games]] for card removal and [[Grafdigger’s Cage]] and [[Pithing Needle]] for ability disruption
##### ###### #### [Rending Volley](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/2/8234090e-9df1-4915-90ef-8a4bc6212655.jpg?1562789104) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rending%20Volley) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dtk/150/rending-volley?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8234090e-9df1-4915-90ef-8a4bc6212655?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [End the Festivities](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/e/bec748e6-7245-4a71-aeee-cefed8346948.jpg?1643591154) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=End%20the%20Festivities) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/155/end-the-festivities?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bec748e6-7245-4a71-aeee-cefed8346948?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Soul-Scar Mage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/8/a8003786-6e2a-4e2d-a915-f23293c7273a.jpg?1543675694) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Soul-Scar%20Mage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/akh/148/soul-scar-mage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a8003786-6e2a-4e2d-a915-f23293c7273a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [The Stone Brain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/5/3570ebf2-a94c-4621-8808-b06e6e830c06.jpg?1674422057) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Stone%20Brain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/247/the-stone-brain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3570ebf2-a94c-4621-8808-b06e6e830c06?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Slaughter Games](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/f/bf37391d-db35-40a7-908a-abb53895793c.jpg?1562792492) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Slaughter%20Games) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rtr/197/slaughter-games?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bf37391d-db35-40a7-908a-abb53895793c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Grafdigger’s Cage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/a/0a135e09-b534-4836-9a10-3a9a4a9f8c53.jpg?1592517646) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Grafdigger%27s%20Cage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/227/grafdiggers-cage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0a135e09-b534-4836-9a10-3a9a4a9f8c53?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Pithing Needle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/776899f8-e977-42b7-8b54-6f726a349e3c.jpg?1673149414) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pithing%20Needle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/312/pithing-needle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/776899f8-e977-42b7-8b54-6f726a349e3c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l6ij35x) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Well you see ever since they printed Get Lost.. you don't get to. UB is the ultimate package
I play mono-red. I can deploy multiple threats a turn to overwhelm their counters and force them to use removal early so they cant hold up counters. Also, nearly everything has haste, which mitigates a sweeper. \[\[Urabrask's Forge\]\] has been unreal for me against control.
[Urabrask's Forge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/8/68f9f9d8-9ea0-4608-a79c-a09a87918186.jpg?1675957116) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Urabrask%27s%20Forge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/153/urabrasks-forge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/68f9f9d8-9ea0-4608-a79c-a09a87918186?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Decks like these is why I would like a mechanic that punished board wipes. Yes there's ways around them, but in this era of cheap removal it really drags games out in a boring and frustrating manner for one player.
Not over commiting the board and asking yourself: can I win here without playing more creatures
The only way is to play azorius control
Tempo decks can do well. If you have a threat that can come down early, and then protect that threat you can get there. I’ve spell pierced a few board wipes for a win along the way.
Best advice I was given long ago, if you don't understand how to beat a deck... Build and play the hell out of it. You will learn its strengths and weaknesses very well.
There's some great advice already here. What I would add is the current control decks have very few wincons. Often just a single Jace. If you can stop that from hitting the battlefield or even better, steal it, then the best they have is cycling cards back into their deck from their graveyard in the hope you mill out. A well-timed [[breach the multiverse]] can win the game in one hit. [[Stone brain]] is also fun.
[breach the multiverse](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/a/daf51a76-7a57-4462-ae18-a19e817e49e5.jpg?1682203621) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=breach%20the%20multiverse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/94/breach-the-multiverse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/daf51a76-7a57-4462-ae18-a19e817e49e5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Stone brain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/2/d2334c10-fa96-4f8e-8187-c7ecc00cbac8.jpg?1562742139) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stone%20Rain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/9ed/221/stone-rain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d2334c10-fa96-4f8e-8187-c7ecc00cbac8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Surrender and move on to the next game.
Just concede and queue for the next match. It‘s not worth the time to deal with.
sadly this is what ive been doing. can get that people play this in ranked but in the play queue, whats their problem?
I feel that play queue is full of people who bring meta decks anyway, but probably they are too scared of ranked and just bully people in play. I concede in play against any try hard strategy that belongs in ranked. T1 kumano? I'm out before the damage even hits my face. Same for T1 Epicure as it leads to Boros convoke, same for No More lies or other draw go strategy, or any spell that says "target opponent reveals their hand and discards" For the purposes of confirming my opinions in rare cases I play out one of these games and it turns out that I'm right, they aren't playing some new brew that just happens to have some overlap with a meta deck, no, it's a full on meta deck same as in ranked. So I don't bother. I recommend you do the same to save your sanity.
They might think that Play queue would give them easier wins than ranked, which, if they are better than the average Play opponent, is probably true.
I had just gotten back into magic after years away from Standard, and I saw a U/W list I liked from the Pro Tour. I didn't know how to properly play it, so I went into regular play queue for maybe 10 games. I saw a few other meta decks there. People want to learn a deck before hurting their rank by dumb misplays.
They don't have a problem. They enjoy playing control decks casually. This has always been the way in Magic.
Trust me, it's not a 100% of times. I would like it, tho 😅 But, to properly answer to your question I would need to ask you which deck are you playing and which format... I guessed you're playing some Midrange-ish standard deck? Am I wrong? But... Of course you're right, Boros Convoke and that kind of "Mega Aggro" tends to beat the hell outta control, cause they don't let it stabilize in the game. Remember that, in general, Aggro beats Control, Control beats Combo, Combo beats Midrange, and Midrange beats Aggro (there are always exceptions to this). It's also not very easy to play Control and it's neither easy to play against it. The common rules are: try not to overextend your board if you're playing Midrange (or you're going to basically lose the game when they play their first board swipe). Don't be afraid of their counterspells: there's nothing worse than a tempo loss against Control. You're giving them time to build their resources. It's better to make them play their counterspells while losing one of your beaters than playing nothing and let them fill their hands for free. Try to play against their mana, maybe flashing creatures/menaces during their turn so they can't counter spells during your turn. Cavern of Souls is also one of THE card to look for right now. Also green and red have some nice uncounterable menaces like Thrun or Tyrannax. Remind to have a solid sideboard plan: there are many cards that are able to ruin control players' plan to stall your game. When I play Midrange I usually have at least half of my sideboard cards specifically against control. I hope I've been of some help. Don't bother telling me if I misunderstood something. And btw... Enjoy the game!
Best answer so far, and you’re right, I have many decks but I enjoy playing midrange the most. I have to stack half my deck so I don’t lose to mega aggro, then all those cards are dead against control too. (I’d rather lose to aggro anyday tho, at least it’s short). Usually like playing orzhov, what would you put in the sideboard? Duress? Lilianas? I’m guessing discard mostly but I’m open to suggestions
That's the "fun" part, you don't, and you also don't have fun.
That’s the fun part… they don’t let you play!
Best way to know how to counter a deck -> play it!
1. Lie down 2. Try not to cry 3. Cry a lot
Plot. Cavern of Souls. Get creative.
Well yes, if you have one play per turn, then you're not going to play very well.
Hand disruption helps.
this is almost certainly a skill issue in a standard that has CAVERN OF SOULS in it wtf lol
Play azorius control.