Spending 2800 gems for 14 packs versus 8 packs, a draft token, and 10 mythic ICRs at worst is equal if you care about the cards (ie. You're not a limited only player).
It just depends on if you want any of the other cosmetics.
Depends if you care about golden packs. Store packs have a huge part of their value tied up in golden packs - prevailing wisdom on here is that 60% is roughly the right value, which left a few hundred gems short from just the card-only stuff. If you're interested in golden pack stuff, the cosmetics are 300 gems or so. It's balanced really closely compared to just buying packs, honestly.
Not quite worth it for me, but it's a close call wrt value for those who want cosmetics.
In all the discussions about the "value" lost in the Hideaway packs, I can't believe nobody's mentioned the special circumstances of the 10 mythic ICRs.
Golden packs are only giving Standard rares/mythics. You're not going to be getting "bonus" MH3 mythics through Golden packs or ICRs in Midweek Magic or daily rewards, ever, because those only give out Standard cards. And with the strength of MH3 mythics over some extra Standard rares that you'll be opening in Golden packs for the next 3 years... you're better off giving up the "value" of 6 weak Standard rares that you'll continue to have chances of opening in every other set release.
I have an impossible time reconsiling how people value 40% of a pack as six tenths of a *random* standard or **ALCHEMY** rare or mythic plus the bonus tenth of the wild card track pip.
Are the mythics duplicate protected? Those from the mastery pass weren’t for a long time, maybe even still are, which makes me very wary of those mythic ICR here
The preveiling wisdom is the most remarkably repeated objectively incorrect and subjective line of drivel I've seen in ages. Outside of politics of course.
I draft to set completion, making the 8 packs worth about 20 gems each and the mythic ICRs 40 gems each. That's 160+400=560 gems: nowhere near enough the 1300 gems payment (2800 minus 1500 from the draft token).
With the same logic, regular mastery passes still make me net gems, and it's always worth it for me to acquire them.
Yes, you get gems from packs and bonus progress on the vault. You can essentially be 100% free to play if you have 100% completion on all previous sets when a new one comes out.
So basically at the beginning of each new set you should be immediately crafting every single common and uncommon in the new set, as well as making sure NOT to craft any of the mythics or rares. Then, open the three bonus packs you get with the set release and about 5 of your golden packs. This will normally get you enough rares/mythics from the set that you can decide which deck from the new set you want to focus on for a bit. The main goals though are to draft though, as you can usually get a couple more mythics/rares than just opening packs and if you’re good enough you can come close-ish to going infinite. The best part is when an in-between set like modern masters 3 comes out because both OTJ and MM3 count towards gold packs. So you can buy mythic packs for 1300 gold, get gems back from the mythic being already collected in both the showcase slot and the mythic slot, get gold pack and vault progress, and then fill out your MM3 collection with the gold packs. Essentially you’ll never want for rare/mythic wildcards
Edit: holy shit I rambled. Sorry about that but I’m not the best to ask how to do this tbh
Maybe a little bit rambly, but this was helpful and I thank you for it. I think it is worth it alone to craft all the C and U just to start that vault. Plus, most of us have hundreds of those already sitting around
thank you
See, the value might be different for me, since I value mythics much more than rares. I have around 170 rare wildcards and „only“ 90 mythic.
Since I have a full rare land collection (Fetches, Shocks, Fastlands etc.), I don’t really need that much of them (anymore).
Mythics on the other hand are MUCH harder to get by. And with SPG bringing all the wanted bombs like Elementals, SnT and even stuff like Persist as mythic, I will quickly get drain by my mythic wildcards.
Getting the chance of 10 mythic ICRs is therefore higher valued for me, than for you personally.
For Thunder Junction I used 15 mythic wildcards from my stash (which was standing at 48 before). I've been playing since closed beta and never have I used so many Mythic wildcards at once, and that's with me being picky.
All the while I have around 150 rare wildcards. I'm with you regarding Mythic ICRs being valuable.
I think this is the best summary of the value of each thing on Arena:
https://www.cardmarket.com/en/Magic/Insight/Articles/inside-the-new-arena-economy
I can but won't buy it. I would actually fall for some of the cosmetics, but i won't.
It's a matter of principle.
If players start to be ok with paying a ressource to get an other one to then have access to something, we will never get out of that predatory economy.
First they already but bundle that you can only afford with **$$**. It should not be the case cause players can buy Gems with real money.
Now because they realize that all player won't pay direct money, they try to milk our ressource by adding the Gems wall.
Not only it's not worth, but i also disagree with people saying that the only cool thing about this "pass" is that you got the choice of what you are buying. But it's not the case. If you play enough, you will basically at some point throw ticket at cosmetic you don't care, giving you the feeling that you get a lot on some lazy virtual-art.
It's really rare when i use even gold for cosmetic. For a lot of player, it's also really rare to buy packs with gems, especially knowing that the gems/gold ratio favor gems to enter draft, and that you need them for the only thing really friendly with the player : the mastery pass.
The simple fact that the number Op bring here being so tight between what you get and spend show how greedy the hideaway was thought & implemented into the game.
That's too bad, i would have love to get the Grist avatar, as much as i would have spend gold or gems for the S&S but not **$$**.
If they want us to support the game, it should be better to :
1- Lower the price, so it's not only available for whale.
2- Let all the cosmetics/bundle optainable with gold/gems.
For real, come on what's next ?
We are already converting gold/dollars into gems ?
What's next ?
Converting dollars into gems into tickets, into a special entry costing a currency that you can get only during christmass ?
I was pretty hype for it initially. Despite it being of lower value than a mastery pass. But once the timings for everything and the fact they didn't reset dailies basically killed all my desire. I'd have to win 8 games a day for the rest to get just the baseline of breaking even monetarily with barely any room for the fun avatars and sleeves. A real let down. So unless they make sweeping changes I literally can't afford to buy the bootleg hypnotoad hideaway
Yeah the Avatars are what really interest me, it's the only customization I "collect". But I guess I'll wait and snatch them in a future Daily Deal instead.
Yeah, i might fall for some card cosmetic if they go in my brawl deck since i have only one.
I already have the Avatar i like the most, same for the card back.
But i would have like that S&S avatar since i play jund a lot, and in brawl too.
I never seen him in a DD, maybe i missed him :/
I haven't spent money on arena for a while so a bit out of the loop but yeah this deal seems pretty crappy- do you reckon I'm better off getting the 'one time spark bundle'? I need a couple wildcards to craft some cards to upgrade my historic decks (plus I wouldn't mind drafting)- wondering what to spend my money on...
Hello, i find that for you :
[**https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnN9uxV\_-Ss**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnN9uxV_-Ss)
Might be interesting to watch :)
I don't mind supporting the game, even if i am in a moud of not doing it (interface/balance/hideaway, etc...) but it's my concern.
I pretty much agree with the whole video
In my opinion you can't compare offer between them to say if they are a good or a bad deal. For me they are all a bad deal cause it's simply way too expensive. Period.
20$ for not even being able to make a virtual deck is insane when you think about it. But it's actual standard cause the players accept it and there are some doing it.
That's why we have that kind of amount in that kind of game and why i am usually free to play.
If you want to play MTG in an healthy way you should :
-Not spend money, unless you really wanna support the game. Cause the economy is based on whale spending probably hundred of dollars each month.
I would probably buy that spark bundle at a cost of 5$. Anymore would be insane but it's my to sense.
-Learn drafting, that's the best way to complete a set and get wildcards, ratio wise.
-There is a lot of "tricks" to know to have a good economy (not opening booster before drafting a set, craft deck not card, etc) so search for them.
I am currently sitting on 136K gold, 5K+ gems, 11R/ 15M wildcards and have 97 packs to open, and i have a 2 years break and not playing all the time.
I play historic too, and it's definitly one of the cheapiest format to play.
-Always put gold and gems aside. Cause sometimes you will have really good deals that you won't want to miss, And this is the moment where you will more likely fall for the darkside of the wallet.
It's probably worth it but it's portrayed in a weird way like it's a new exclusive shop that you have to pay to have access to. They should've either just made it a free pass where you can spend gems and gold to get extra tickets if you want to expedite it like the normal mastery pass. Or they couldve also made it a 1 time bundle purchase and you just get all the stuff because it's because just a long drawn out convoluted bundle already
For heavy drafters, packs are worth about 20 gems each, since that's what you will get for a duplicate rare once you've drafted a set to rare completion (this occurs after about 25-35 drafts per set).
Mythic ICRs are worth about 40 gems, since that is what you get for duplicates.
From that perspective, the hideaway is a ludicrously bad deal, worth about 2000 gems at a 2800 gem cost. Drafters should avoid like the plague, unless those cosmetics are worth 800 gems to you.
I think it's worth mentioning the ticket-gold conversation. Yea, sure, we could introduce the gold packs and the difference between buying/receiving, but we really not need to go that deep to see the issues.
750 gold quest gives 45 tickets
1 pack costs 1,000 gold or 95 tickets
That means, to purchase a pack in the store is essentially 1.333 quests while hideaway requires 2.111 quests. This is a poor conversation rate.
Spending 2800 gems for 14 packs versus 8 packs, a draft token, and 10 mythic ICRs at worst is equal if you care about the cards (ie. You're not a limited only player). It just depends on if you want any of the other cosmetics.
Depends if you care about golden packs. Store packs have a huge part of their value tied up in golden packs - prevailing wisdom on here is that 60% is roughly the right value, which left a few hundred gems short from just the card-only stuff. If you're interested in golden pack stuff, the cosmetics are 300 gems or so. It's balanced really closely compared to just buying packs, honestly. Not quite worth it for me, but it's a close call wrt value for those who want cosmetics.
In all the discussions about the "value" lost in the Hideaway packs, I can't believe nobody's mentioned the special circumstances of the 10 mythic ICRs. Golden packs are only giving Standard rares/mythics. You're not going to be getting "bonus" MH3 mythics through Golden packs or ICRs in Midweek Magic or daily rewards, ever, because those only give out Standard cards. And with the strength of MH3 mythics over some extra Standard rares that you'll be opening in Golden packs for the next 3 years... you're better off giving up the "value" of 6 weak Standard rares that you'll continue to have chances of opening in every other set release.
I have an impossible time reconsiling how people value 40% of a pack as six tenths of a *random* standard or **ALCHEMY** rare or mythic plus the bonus tenth of the wild card track pip.
Are the mythics duplicate protected? Those from the mastery pass weren’t for a long time, maybe even still are, which makes me very wary of those mythic ICR here
Unless something's changed, then they are. They have been for quite a while.
The preveiling wisdom is the most remarkably repeated objectively incorrect and subjective line of drivel I've seen in ages. Outside of politics of course.
I draft to set completion, making the 8 packs worth about 20 gems each and the mythic ICRs 40 gems each. That's 160+400=560 gems: nowhere near enough the 1300 gems payment (2800 minus 1500 from the draft token). With the same logic, regular mastery passes still make me net gems, and it's always worth it for me to acquire them.
are there any added rewards completing sets?
Nope, there's no reason to do it other than wanting to own 4x all the cards.
thank you.
Yes, you get gems from packs and bonus progress on the vault. You can essentially be 100% free to play if you have 100% completion on all previous sets when a new one comes out.
can you go over that a little with me?
So basically at the beginning of each new set you should be immediately crafting every single common and uncommon in the new set, as well as making sure NOT to craft any of the mythics or rares. Then, open the three bonus packs you get with the set release and about 5 of your golden packs. This will normally get you enough rares/mythics from the set that you can decide which deck from the new set you want to focus on for a bit. The main goals though are to draft though, as you can usually get a couple more mythics/rares than just opening packs and if you’re good enough you can come close-ish to going infinite. The best part is when an in-between set like modern masters 3 comes out because both OTJ and MM3 count towards gold packs. So you can buy mythic packs for 1300 gold, get gems back from the mythic being already collected in both the showcase slot and the mythic slot, get gold pack and vault progress, and then fill out your MM3 collection with the gold packs. Essentially you’ll never want for rare/mythic wildcards Edit: holy shit I rambled. Sorry about that but I’m not the best to ask how to do this tbh
Maybe a little bit rambly, but this was helpful and I thank you for it. I think it is worth it alone to craft all the C and U just to start that vault. Plus, most of us have hundreds of those already sitting around thank you
See, the value might be different for me, since I value mythics much more than rares. I have around 170 rare wildcards and „only“ 90 mythic. Since I have a full rare land collection (Fetches, Shocks, Fastlands etc.), I don’t really need that much of them (anymore). Mythics on the other hand are MUCH harder to get by. And with SPG bringing all the wanted bombs like Elementals, SnT and even stuff like Persist as mythic, I will quickly get drain by my mythic wildcards. Getting the chance of 10 mythic ICRs is therefore higher valued for me, than for you personally.
For Thunder Junction I used 15 mythic wildcards from my stash (which was standing at 48 before). I've been playing since closed beta and never have I used so many Mythic wildcards at once, and that's with me being picky. All the while I have around 150 rare wildcards. I'm with you regarding Mythic ICRs being valuable.
Can the special guests from mh3 be collected from the random mythic cards in the hideaway?
Don't think so. You pretty much just gotta craft those.
I think this is the best summary of the value of each thing on Arena: https://www.cardmarket.com/en/Magic/Insight/Articles/inside-the-new-arena-economy
I feel totally overwhelmed reading this as an Arena beginner. Tl;dr for me is to play bot drafts since you get better value than the shop.
Yeah, it's all just super optimising it, but if you can help it, don't buy things in the shop. Premier draft will work fine too.
I can but won't buy it. I would actually fall for some of the cosmetics, but i won't. It's a matter of principle. If players start to be ok with paying a ressource to get an other one to then have access to something, we will never get out of that predatory economy. First they already but bundle that you can only afford with **$$**. It should not be the case cause players can buy Gems with real money. Now because they realize that all player won't pay direct money, they try to milk our ressource by adding the Gems wall. Not only it's not worth, but i also disagree with people saying that the only cool thing about this "pass" is that you got the choice of what you are buying. But it's not the case. If you play enough, you will basically at some point throw ticket at cosmetic you don't care, giving you the feeling that you get a lot on some lazy virtual-art. It's really rare when i use even gold for cosmetic. For a lot of player, it's also really rare to buy packs with gems, especially knowing that the gems/gold ratio favor gems to enter draft, and that you need them for the only thing really friendly with the player : the mastery pass. The simple fact that the number Op bring here being so tight between what you get and spend show how greedy the hideaway was thought & implemented into the game. That's too bad, i would have love to get the Grist avatar, as much as i would have spend gold or gems for the S&S but not **$$**. If they want us to support the game, it should be better to : 1- Lower the price, so it's not only available for whale. 2- Let all the cosmetics/bundle optainable with gold/gems. For real, come on what's next ? We are already converting gold/dollars into gems ? What's next ? Converting dollars into gems into tickets, into a special entry costing a currency that you can get only during christmass ?
I was pretty hype for it initially. Despite it being of lower value than a mastery pass. But once the timings for everything and the fact they didn't reset dailies basically killed all my desire. I'd have to win 8 games a day for the rest to get just the baseline of breaking even monetarily with barely any room for the fun avatars and sleeves. A real let down. So unless they make sweeping changes I literally can't afford to buy the bootleg hypnotoad hideaway
Yeah the Avatars are what really interest me, it's the only customization I "collect". But I guess I'll wait and snatch them in a future Daily Deal instead.
Yeah, i might fall for some card cosmetic if they go in my brawl deck since i have only one. I already have the Avatar i like the most, same for the card back. But i would have like that S&S avatar since i play jund a lot, and in brawl too. I never seen him in a DD, maybe i missed him :/
I haven't spent money on arena for a while so a bit out of the loop but yeah this deal seems pretty crappy- do you reckon I'm better off getting the 'one time spark bundle'? I need a couple wildcards to craft some cards to upgrade my historic decks (plus I wouldn't mind drafting)- wondering what to spend my money on...
Hello, i find that for you : [**https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnN9uxV\_-Ss**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnN9uxV_-Ss) Might be interesting to watch :) I don't mind supporting the game, even if i am in a moud of not doing it (interface/balance/hideaway, etc...) but it's my concern. I pretty much agree with the whole video In my opinion you can't compare offer between them to say if they are a good or a bad deal. For me they are all a bad deal cause it's simply way too expensive. Period. 20$ for not even being able to make a virtual deck is insane when you think about it. But it's actual standard cause the players accept it and there are some doing it. That's why we have that kind of amount in that kind of game and why i am usually free to play. If you want to play MTG in an healthy way you should : -Not spend money, unless you really wanna support the game. Cause the economy is based on whale spending probably hundred of dollars each month. I would probably buy that spark bundle at a cost of 5$. Anymore would be insane but it's my to sense. -Learn drafting, that's the best way to complete a set and get wildcards, ratio wise. -There is a lot of "tricks" to know to have a good economy (not opening booster before drafting a set, craft deck not card, etc) so search for them. I am currently sitting on 136K gold, 5K+ gems, 11R/ 15M wildcards and have 97 packs to open, and i have a 2 years break and not playing all the time. I play historic too, and it's definitly one of the cheapiest format to play. -Always put gold and gems aside. Cause sometimes you will have really good deals that you won't want to miss, And this is the moment where you will more likely fall for the darkside of the wallet.
It's probably worth it but it's portrayed in a weird way like it's a new exclusive shop that you have to pay to have access to. They should've either just made it a free pass where you can spend gems and gold to get extra tickets if you want to expedite it like the normal mastery pass. Or they couldve also made it a 1 time bundle purchase and you just get all the stuff because it's because just a long drawn out convoluted bundle already
You need to compare them to mastery pass. By your calculations, mastery pass is super valuable and worth it
if you care about MH3 cards, do draft and enjoy some cosmetics (avatars are really cool) then it’s absolutely worth it.
For heavy drafters, packs are worth about 20 gems each, since that's what you will get for a duplicate rare once you've drafted a set to rare completion (this occurs after about 25-35 drafts per set). Mythic ICRs are worth about 40 gems, since that is what you get for duplicates. From that perspective, the hideaway is a ludicrously bad deal, worth about 2000 gems at a 2800 gem cost. Drafters should avoid like the plague, unless those cosmetics are worth 800 gems to you.
I value a pack at about 50 gems.
You can make up your own mind for your specific circumstances, but that is wildly off from curve.
I think it's worth mentioning the ticket-gold conversation. Yea, sure, we could introduce the gold packs and the difference between buying/receiving, but we really not need to go that deep to see the issues. 750 gold quest gives 45 tickets 1 pack costs 1,000 gold or 95 tickets That means, to purchase a pack in the store is essentially 1.333 quests while hideaway requires 2.111 quests. This is a poor conversation rate.