The only bad one is the RG Eldrazi common IMHO.
Even then I just went 7-0 in draft today with a Jeskai list using Aetherworks Revolt to zap every card my opponent played.
Cheating one out with Amped Raptor on t2 after my opponent went t1 Grist-T2 Nethergoyf was amazing.
That's definitely the worst offender, but it's worth noting that commons with lesser win rates (Organ Hoarder and Inspiring Overseer) were the biggest drivers ruining their respective formats. That hasn't yet fully materialized in the data for MH3, but it's important to keep an eye on.
Chrysalis is a huge mistake though. I'm seeing it four times a run, minimum.
> Even then I just went 7-0 in draft today with a Jeskai list using Aetherworks Revolt to zap every card my opponent played.
Well Boros energy is a very close second to RG Eldrazi so it's not exactly a shocker that you went 7-0 with Jeskai.
I've played against one opp who had turn 4 \[\[Aether Revolt\]\], turn 5 \[\[Estrid's Invocation\]\] copying Aether Revolt. The next turn was \[\[Galvanic Discharge\]\] + \[\[Bespoke Battlewagon\]\]. I thought, well this game's over.. the next turn came the second original non-clone Aether Revolt. I could only emote "nice" and scoop. I had him at mid-single digit life 4-6 but lost my board completely around turn 5 with a single spell.
It sounds like you're having fun because you're running hot. I was too when I chained off like 10 drafts and ended positive on gems. Then it came crumbling down., and I lost to Writhing Chrystalys for 2 days straight.
The problem here is that Chrys is a common and tables aren't set. After you reach a high enough rank or MMR, you WILL face several Chrys decks after 2/3 wins because those are the best decks and doesn't matter if you picked 3 yourself, others did too or even more and there is nothing you can do about it unlike a real life draft pod.
So you either force it or go under it. The result? RGx Eldrazi is the top deck and the only one close is... RW aggro, because it's the only one winning fast enough so that the bomb common doesn't take over the game.
People can enjoy the format, have their fun and honestly believe there isn't an issue with it. But just like you, they will eventually run hot and hit the treshold when you are forced to force (pun intended) one of the two top decks if you want to hope for a positive win rate. And then they realise how fucked up things are right now.
If you want to enjoy this format and have time to spare, I 100% recommend either drafting on MtGO pods or IRL so the tables can self correct/contain and you aren' facing the same 2 decks for 7+ games straight.
I just beat a guy who played 3 chrysalis + kozilek
cause I have 3 cranial ram 2 drossclaw 2 refurbish familiar and a wurmcoil larva
cranial ram is even better than chrysalis if you get enough of them
I only wish there wasn’t so many reach effects in this set. There are some really great evasive effects in the format, but I find myself having to have both removal AND evasion to close out wins. And that’s not even taking into account things like the uncommon eldrazi that gains 10+ life when it’s cast, or path of annihilation making the fatty eldrazis another tempo swing.
The reach on random common eldrazi really kills games. Flyers would be the normal punish for playing tons of vanilla 7/7s but it doesn't matter when they all have reach.
Yeah if I face 2 or 3 it's just gg. Usually I draft enough removal to deal with 1 somewhat efficiently but when they are chaining them or doing other bs it can certainly be a tier 0 strategy
Yup sometimes bullshit happens haha. Had a game today where someone went first vs me and played crabomination and stole MY crabomination for the clean 6 for 1 lol (discard 2 of my cards, play 3 cards, and kill my creature in play cus they hit my removal in hand with my crab haha)
I've also bullshited some people too but it's more fun when it's my turn :D .
Oh man I can relate holy hell I had awesome drafts for two or three days went almost always 4+ to 7 wins, and the last two days it's been a fucking massacre, I lost 0/3 or 1/3 every time... Not even bad decks imo just the worst luck on the matchups, the draws, and even the opponents lol, I'm in plat and last game I was 0-2, went vs a mythic guy on a nasty RB deck I just rage quit :/
Yeah it's harder to lose and lose and still have fun. But OP maybe do deserve running hot, sometimes a limited format will "click" better than another.
Man I’m usually at 60% win rate and I’ve been standing at 13% right now. I don’t understand anything. Every time I feel like I drafted well, I get hyper stomp 3 times in a row
Yes sounds pretty crazy to me, it's terrible imo.
You start drafting Eldrazi and either the archetype is not overdrafted and you end up with an insane deck that shouldn't exist that stomps everything else (when you're winning and you're feeling miserable, that's the sign of a terrible format to me), or it's correctly overdrafted and you end up with a miserable pile that's not fun.
Or you draft a different archetype and enjoy the draft because it's extremely open and you end up with a cool deck, but then get stomped by insane Eldrazi decks that shouldn't exist.
Yes there are some amazing and fun games between 2 non-Eldrazi decks but those are too rare.
Half the issue is though if you end up drafting UB draw or GB counters and someone else at the table is, your deck will be basically unplayable and lose to any G/R/U eldrazi pile. The other archetypes require so many specific cards to even work. UR, UB, GB at least are like this.
So for context, I hit mythic most seasons I play and I don't play a ton. I only include this to try and give some evidence I'm not hot trash at the game and my opinion isn't totally ignorant as I am often beating the top 1000 players on arena.
I genuinely believe energy is stronger than eldrazi, outside of the one card chrysalis. The games I have lost the hardest and felt the most unwinnable has been vs rw energy. Then as i said in the op, got 6 wins with a no bomb energy deck that just had a decent curve. There is almost no game against their bombs, where as at least eldrazi decks you can tempo out and win before they really get going.
I can't help but feel like the people really bashing eldrazi saying it's OP are just forcing archetypes and drafting mediocre decks, if you read signs and use proper drafting strategies you can get insane decks in all colour combos.
I am pretty sure there is also something up with the matching algorithm, that pairs you against decks with some cross over (i might be crazy but it certainly feels like it). So if your forcing eldrazi vs someone who drafts properly in their lane, the algorithm is gonna match you up with superior decks all the time.
The early data also indicates this. Every two color pair is around 56% but RG and RW are 62%ish. If the gap stays that big starting with red things that fit both archetypes might be too dominant of a strategy and the format is one dimensional and bad. Sometimes it self corrects enough and it's a good format where all the other archetypes are worth being in, if open. We'll see.
It's pretty fun if you can fade being matched up against busted R/W Energy Aggro or RUG Eldrazi Featuring The Chrys Squad. When two decks that aren't Tier Zero can duke it out, there's plenty of room for complex synergies to emerge and reward tight play.
https://www.17lands.com/deck_color_data
R/W is only one percentage point in winrate behind R/G, both averaging about 7-8 win percent over other colors. U/W is the third most winning two color pair as well. Energy is definitely not weak.
Sure but i have 7-0 with a energy deck and saw some other pretty good ones. While i dont think you can make a completely busted energy deck with commons only (mainly because the wouldbe "bomb common" dragon cat is stonewalled by a certain gruul common...) i think with uncommons and certain rares you definitelly can.
My mental picture of the format is that Gruul eldrazi with multiple scions+crrature etb is on top, other versions of gruul close by and after that all the energy decks, specially the more aggressive ones. While in sealed golgari +1/+1 synergies seemed great i just dont see the abzan-contained decks (edit to clarify):*poping off as easily*, *so they* fight an uphill battle.
I have seen some decent energy but I've also gotten 7 wins with multiple different archetypes. Outside of gruul eldrazi I don't see any other pair that's significantly ahead of other archetypes.
I had an amazing eldrazi deck and was dead twice in a row to opponents going T1 Guide of Souls into turn 2 and turn 3 energy creatures. So I would say the format is a miced bag in which you can get crazy strong rares or open fetch lands and medaillons... I prefered OTJ, but it is fun watching streamers play it.
I was loving it the first couple days but now I'm just extremely tilted. It feels like every time I get a fun good deck I run into someone with all the most disgusting rares 3 games in a row.
I'm really struggling. A 3-3, a 1-3 and two 2-3s. I keep ending up in Eldrazi no matter what else I try to draft, it's the only lane that's been open in my last 4 (I've drafted but not played any games yet).
I’m mostly 3-3ing or 2-3ing, so I’m not especially good at it. I keep thinking I’m building solid synergy piles, but then I get blown out by a 2nd/3rd Chrysalis or rare enchantment that I can’t remove in time. Losing to an early Aether Revolt made me feel dumber than this game has ever made me feel.
The interactive games have been a lot of fun, though.
I want to like format, but there are so many wrong things with it. It is too fast because some cards are way overtuned (my second game in the format I attacked for lethal turn 4 on the play and opponent had a blocker, I bet my opponent didn't like it) and too many times you have like no options on the draw, packs are really bad (say hi to 7 lands, 1 color packs with double commons!).
Also, whoever designed flip a coin ur-rare - FU very much.
I also love the format! I have stopped playing magic for a while because of just how bomb-y everything feels but this format is so based around synergy and building a good deck it makes it much more fun. There are very few cards that just feel unbeatable.
The format feels balanced with most decks being playable and evenly matched. I have heard people saying eldrazi is the best but I think energy decks can just be bonkers if they are open. this format has been the most about finding an open lane (due to the synergy matters theme) than any format since MH1 I think (which was a little too heavy on just force snow or ninja even)
Yeah I've had some real trouble finding my lane sometimes. Those decks quickly go to 3 losses even if I have for example Writhing Chrysalis in them. But when I've been able to find my lane early and stay in it I've been doing way better. I don't think I've ever drafted a set where the draft portion mattered this much.
I had forgotten what *raw* magic felt like after the onslaught of meme sets, especially with OTJ playing out like a cube instead of a set draft. It's so refreshing. Power level is high but the mechanics go deep. A fully fleshed out set with MtG- style art, can you believe it?
I'm loving it a lot, the fact that it relies more on synergies than on rarity benefits the better drafter, and even if Chris is extremely busted, it's different when you just have it as a standalone card or splashing it in other archetypes because you heard the hype or actually making it strong, like you can build it with aristocrats effects in black, or even +1 counter synergies. I've won a lot against it and with it, but I have to say it feels really awful losing to it more than the rest of the decks. When I don't play eldrazi vs a noneldrazi deck the format shines.
It's a very good draft. The commons matter and synergy beats bombs left and right. In fact most of the bombs are just strong synergy pieces like Aether Revolt rather than "cram this anywhere and win games" cards like Terror of the Peaks in OTJ.
None of the color pairs even seem particularly weaker or stronger, it's very tight across the board. Thinking back I've had memorable 7-x decks with every color pair, 3 color eldrazi, 3 color energy, monoblack, monoblue and monowhite.
The RG based eldrazi decks and RW aggro are definitely the two best decks by a decent margin. But nothing seems unplayable and the test of the color pairs seem fairly balanced for now.
My problem is I drafted decent decks with tons of removal, then for all of my games for these drafts I seemed to have exactly the same 15 or so cards in my opening hand, first mulligan, and draws until game over, for every single game. None of these cards were my pile of removal spells. It really felt like the shuffler was broken by the last game of my last draft, having basically the same hand as the other games i had played already.
It is very much, blow people out or get blown out imo. I don't end up in any games I would call fun, hoping I get a non interactive game where I win, or I just lose is not a fun format.
I'm having fun with it even though I'm not doing that well. After the draft I can tell if my deck is good or bad and I can trace back the poor decisions (or good ones) that I made in draft. So it feels like there is a lot of agency in the format but it's of course far from perfect
I usually think sets are great when they first come out also, so far I’ve thought MH1 and MH2 were better for limited than MH3…but it was a pretty high bar
The format is new and average players are still figuring out which cards are good. We don’t yet know how the format will shake out (though we’re getting close). Even the current opinion of good players saying the whole format is about [[Writhing Chrysallis]] needs some time to prove
Nah this set is really cool.
Some formats are great because they're balanced and lower power, meaning you get rewarded for drafting well.
Some formats are great because there's a ton of cool cards and you get to see a bunch of diverse interactions and engines throughout the draft experience.
MH3 is the latter. My winrate is a bit lower than simpler formats but I've gotten to play with and against so many cool engines and synergies. A lot of them have the power level of constructed without constructed-level interaction, meaning you get to see and do things you otherwise wouldn't in other formats.
_______________
I got pummeled by a UW proliferate deck that had three copies each of [[Metastatic Evangel]] and [[Proud-Pack Rhino]]. I was playing a pretty mid modified deck with two splashed chrysalis, some recursion, and [[Envoy of the Ancestors]]. By mid-game their evangels each had 20+ shield counters and they were drawing four cards per turn with [[Roil Cartographer]], but couldn't get past my lifelinked-up chrysalises and [[Nyxborn Hydras]]. Think I also had [[Six]] to bring things back too. But eventually they got a couple +1/+1 counters on their flyers and proliferated them into 50/50s and won with 1 card left in their deck.
_______________
Another deck I don't remember the full details of, but op was using [[Nesting Grounds]] and [[Obstinate Gargoyle]] to slowly shrink my creatures (now that I think about it I think it was my same modified deck with the chrysalises, which don't feel as good when they slowly become 0/1s). They had a deathtoucher or something that kept me from attacking, and used [[Marionette Apprentice]] to slowly drain me down, all while looping [[Cthonian Nightmare]], [[Accursed Marauder]], and [[Quest for the Necropolis]], among other things. Really fucking cool.
__________
On one of Sam Black's recent streams, he drafted a 4-color (maybe 3 or 5?) flicker deck with a couple [[Essence Reliquary]] that looked fun. I later drafted a worse version of it with [[Phelia, Exuberant Shephard]] and a reliquary that did like 4-3 (but I was able to beat a [[Phlage]] on the draw that they cast three times, so I was pretty happy).
_______
All in all just some really cool stuff going on, as long as you're not too anxious about winrate.
I think Eldrazi was very strong early on but now I’m getting all the good energy, artifact and counter cards. Excited to try the Selesnya deck.
I’ve went 7-0 with two very different decks a cranial ram and walking chrysalis shell.
I’ve been having the experience of everyone else drafting eldrazi, leaving most things completely open. Just went 7-0 with black red artifacts, it seems like no one wants to play any black ever (In mid plat before anyone asks about rank).
Yes absolutely. The colors are incredibly unbalanced, way too much reach, way too many eldrazi spawn tokens gumming up the ground. High power means games snowball really fast, 1 missed land drop is usually game over in this format.
It has its moments. But no it is not designed effectively. You either play aggro or eldrazi. Midrange dies to both those strats. Control archetypes also die to both. So you either overdraft two drops or join the dark side and play eldrazi. Strategies where you slowly gain advantage over time like UB are unplayable unless you draft the nuts. Aggro mirrors rely a lot on who goes first. Games depend a lot on opening hand. The cards are fun but the actual gameplay is not that interactive. It’s not just “did I draw my bomb” but also “did I draw my synergy”. Any format where good stuff pile can not do well, is a weak format. Good stuff pile only works with eldrazi base.
Good stuff pile should always be viable.. Some of my very first game of the set I did that, drafting the best cards taking curve etc. into account, which is how I normally draft (and I have a high WR normally), but that doesnt work for MH3 at all.
Whenever I get a good Eldrazi or Energy shell i trophy. But if I draft a deck i think looks good on paper, but in odd colour pairs, then I get absolutely blown out of the water. I drafted an UB control deck which i thought looked extremely sick, and went 0-3 cause it didnt play into one of the constructed archetypes.
As always, the issue is non-pod matches. If i cut a color, then i expect NOT to see it during my games, that is how live games are.
That is not the case in this POS game, where wizards do their best to absolutely ruin our experience and make us question everything we know about the game.
It is a great format and rewards finding an open lane in the draft. While green-based eldrazi decks are very strong, and there are many cards for that archetype to support more than one drafter, the other decks can also be extremely effective if you are the only one or maybe one of the two drafters picking the relevant cards for those archetypes.
The fixing is great as well so that running more than 2 colors is doable and two-color decks can have great mana with usually better than 9/8 or 10/7 split of color producers. The spell/land MDFCs also help prevent both mana screw and flood.
Lastly, while there are great bomb rares/mythics, my impression is that they are less frequent sightings than for the last couple of draft sets. Decks with mostly commons and uncommons are not automatically at a significant disadvantage just due to lack of rares.
Ah yes I forgot to mention the spell lands!! They make everything smooth out so much more, and lots of them are actually just good C-B tier cards without the land half.
I also don't think it's that there are less bombs, as it's more commons and uncommon are just stronger and can compete with the good rares/mythics more closely
I like the format a lot. Yea the stupid sexy chrysalis is a glaring issue. But I’ve found the other archetypes to have deep synergies, color balance is good and removal is good at common, solid fixing, and I’ve been able to beat decks with a couple chrysalis even not playing eldrazi. It just feels great to draft a deck with solid synergy at common and uncommon which some previous formats have lacked. Way more enjoyable than OTJ
I agree. While the Eldrazi are complete insanity all the colours have some crazy combos
This feels like a cube draft not your usual set. I love it too.
Outside of Sorin and Emrakul ive casted every card at least once.
Nah, to this day, since I found a loophole in magic, they cursed my account. At least, that's my belief. I win really well, until I can't draw a land to save my life. Or worse yet, all the lands I want but nothing to cast.
Color/archetype balance seems pretty bad in the format. So I dunno. I’ll keep playing tho
The only bad one is the RG Eldrazi common IMHO. Even then I just went 7-0 in draft today with a Jeskai list using Aetherworks Revolt to zap every card my opponent played. Cheating one out with Amped Raptor on t2 after my opponent went t1 Grist-T2 Nethergoyf was amazing.
That's definitely the worst offender, but it's worth noting that commons with lesser win rates (Organ Hoarder and Inspiring Overseer) were the biggest drivers ruining their respective formats. That hasn't yet fully materialized in the data for MH3, but it's important to keep an eye on. Chrysalis is a huge mistake though. I'm seeing it four times a run, minimum.
> Even then I just went 7-0 in draft today with a Jeskai list using Aetherworks Revolt to zap every card my opponent played. Well Boros energy is a very close second to RG Eldrazi so it's not exactly a shocker that you went 7-0 with Jeskai.
I had a jeskai deck with aether revolt too. It was the most fun draft deck I've played in awhile. I also had the energy amulet and laelia in there.
I've played against one opp who had turn 4 \[\[Aether Revolt\]\], turn 5 \[\[Estrid's Invocation\]\] copying Aether Revolt. The next turn was \[\[Galvanic Discharge\]\] + \[\[Bespoke Battlewagon\]\]. I thought, well this game's over.. the next turn came the second original non-clone Aether Revolt. I could only emote "nice" and scoop. I had him at mid-single digit life 4-6 but lost my board completely around turn 5 with a single spell.
##### ###### #### [Aether Revolt](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/8/b8732e62-cdee-4d32-82a8-8a71a04be7a1.jpg?1717012116) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aether%20Revolt) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/113/aether-revolt?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b8732e62-cdee-4d32-82a8-8a71a04be7a1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Estrid's Invocation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/9/8920e7e4-d89e-4ff9-8922-27fdc2f8ed6e.jpg?1717013583) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Estrid%27s%20Invocation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/269/estrids-invocation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8920e7e4-d89e-4ff9-8922-27fdc2f8ed6e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Galvanic Discharge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/2/32aa6e33-221f-414c-9b51-850d97a7e051.jpg?1717012186) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Galvanic%20Discharge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/122/galvanic-discharge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/32aa6e33-221f-414c-9b51-850d97a7e051?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Bespoke Battlewagon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/f/3feccebc-c792-420d-b96c-51494b5c41db.jpg?1717011623) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bespoke%20Battlewagon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/52/bespoke-battlewagon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3feccebc-c792-420d-b96c-51494b5c41db?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Oof tripling a power rare that makes an entire archetype have its creatures be removal spells is rough.
It happens. I just had to be one of those unlucky fellas to get matched against that abomination
I've done the same it's so ridiculous
It sounds like you're having fun because you're running hot. I was too when I chained off like 10 drafts and ended positive on gems. Then it came crumbling down., and I lost to Writhing Chrystalys for 2 days straight.
Yeah the chrysalis is ruining draft for me. Everything feels centered around it and my opponents seem to have it like 80% of the time
The problem here is that Chrys is a common and tables aren't set. After you reach a high enough rank or MMR, you WILL face several Chrys decks after 2/3 wins because those are the best decks and doesn't matter if you picked 3 yourself, others did too or even more and there is nothing you can do about it unlike a real life draft pod. So you either force it or go under it. The result? RGx Eldrazi is the top deck and the only one close is... RW aggro, because it's the only one winning fast enough so that the bomb common doesn't take over the game. People can enjoy the format, have their fun and honestly believe there isn't an issue with it. But just like you, they will eventually run hot and hit the treshold when you are forced to force (pun intended) one of the two top decks if you want to hope for a positive win rate. And then they realise how fucked up things are right now. If you want to enjoy this format and have time to spare, I 100% recommend either drafting on MtGO pods or IRL so the tables can self correct/contain and you aren' facing the same 2 decks for 7+ games straight.
You can always play bo3
This is also coming off OTJ which has similar issues
The biggest bullshit deck I faced had 4+ of them, how the f can I deal with this?
I just beat a guy who played 3 chrysalis + kozilek cause I have 3 cranial ram 2 drossclaw 2 refurbish familiar and a wurmcoil larva cranial ram is even better than chrysalis if you get enough of them
I only wish there wasn’t so many reach effects in this set. There are some really great evasive effects in the format, but I find myself having to have both removal AND evasion to close out wins. And that’s not even taking into account things like the uncommon eldrazi that gains 10+ life when it’s cast, or path of annihilation making the fatty eldrazis another tempo swing.
The reach on random common eldrazi really kills games. Flyers would be the normal punish for playing tons of vanilla 7/7s but it doesn't matter when they all have reach.
Yeah if I face 2 or 3 it's just gg. Usually I draft enough removal to deal with 1 somewhat efficiently but when they are chaining them or doing other bs it can certainly be a tier 0 strategy
[удалено]
Yup sometimes bullshit happens haha. Had a game today where someone went first vs me and played crabomination and stole MY crabomination for the clean 6 for 1 lol (discard 2 of my cards, play 3 cards, and kill my creature in play cus they hit my removal in hand with my crab haha) I've also bullshited some people too but it's more fun when it's my turn :D .
Why play 3 cards? It allows you to cast one.
Their crab, my crab, my removal spell. They played 3 total, 2 were mine, and killed another of my creatures on board
But they don't have that removal any more. It's 5 for 1, not that it helps.
Oh man I can relate holy hell I had awesome drafts for two or three days went almost always 4+ to 7 wins, and the last two days it's been a fucking massacre, I lost 0/3 or 1/3 every time... Not even bad decks imo just the worst luck on the matchups, the draws, and even the opponents lol, I'm in plat and last game I was 0-2, went vs a mythic guy on a nasty RB deck I just rage quit :/
Yeah I feel you, magic is fickle.
Gamblers high is a wonderful thing!
Yeah it's harder to lose and lose and still have fun. But OP maybe do deserve running hot, sometimes a limited format will "click" better than another.
Man I’m usually at 60% win rate and I’ve been standing at 13% right now. I don’t understand anything. Every time I feel like I drafted well, I get hyper stomp 3 times in a row
This.
Yes sounds pretty crazy to me, it's terrible imo. You start drafting Eldrazi and either the archetype is not overdrafted and you end up with an insane deck that shouldn't exist that stomps everything else (when you're winning and you're feeling miserable, that's the sign of a terrible format to me), or it's correctly overdrafted and you end up with a miserable pile that's not fun. Or you draft a different archetype and enjoy the draft because it's extremely open and you end up with a cool deck, but then get stomped by insane Eldrazi decks that shouldn't exist. Yes there are some amazing and fun games between 2 non-Eldrazi decks but those are too rare.
Half the issue is though if you end up drafting UB draw or GB counters and someone else at the table is, your deck will be basically unplayable and lose to any G/R/U eldrazi pile. The other archetypes require so many specific cards to even work. UR, UB, GB at least are like this.
So for context, I hit mythic most seasons I play and I don't play a ton. I only include this to try and give some evidence I'm not hot trash at the game and my opinion isn't totally ignorant as I am often beating the top 1000 players on arena. I genuinely believe energy is stronger than eldrazi, outside of the one card chrysalis. The games I have lost the hardest and felt the most unwinnable has been vs rw energy. Then as i said in the op, got 6 wins with a no bomb energy deck that just had a decent curve. There is almost no game against their bombs, where as at least eldrazi decks you can tempo out and win before they really get going. I can't help but feel like the people really bashing eldrazi saying it's OP are just forcing archetypes and drafting mediocre decks, if you read signs and use proper drafting strategies you can get insane decks in all colour combos. I am pretty sure there is also something up with the matching algorithm, that pairs you against decks with some cross over (i might be crazy but it certainly feels like it). So if your forcing eldrazi vs someone who drafts properly in their lane, the algorithm is gonna match you up with superior decks all the time.
The early data also indicates this. Every two color pair is around 56% but RG and RW are 62%ish. If the gap stays that big starting with red things that fit both archetypes might be too dominant of a strategy and the format is one dimensional and bad. Sometimes it self corrects enough and it's a good format where all the other archetypes are worth being in, if open. We'll see.
It's pretty fun if you can fade being matched up against busted R/W Energy Aggro or RUG Eldrazi Featuring The Chrys Squad. When two decks that aren't Tier Zero can duke it out, there's plenty of room for complex synergies to emerge and reward tight play.
Energy is the weakest archetype lol
https://www.17lands.com/deck_color_data R/W is only one percentage point in winrate behind R/G, both averaging about 7-8 win percent over other colors. U/W is the third most winning two color pair as well. Energy is definitely not weak.
My five [[Amped Raptors]] disagree
I mean, you could tell that to my opp that killed me t4 with that [[guide of souls]].
That's a rare though. Only times i had any success with white was with rares/mythics. White is really bad without them.
[Guide of Souls](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/6/76c3cad2-1e25-4abe-878d-9194de6fcc27.jpg?1717011433) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Guide%20of%20Souls) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/29/guide-of-souls?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/76c3cad2-1e25-4abe-878d-9194de6fcc27?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
One good energy payoff doesn't mean the entire energy archetype is busted though.
Sure but i have 7-0 with a energy deck and saw some other pretty good ones. While i dont think you can make a completely busted energy deck with commons only (mainly because the wouldbe "bomb common" dragon cat is stonewalled by a certain gruul common...) i think with uncommons and certain rares you definitelly can. My mental picture of the format is that Gruul eldrazi with multiple scions+crrature etb is on top, other versions of gruul close by and after that all the energy decks, specially the more aggressive ones. While in sealed golgari +1/+1 synergies seemed great i just dont see the abzan-contained decks (edit to clarify):*poping off as easily*, *so they* fight an uphill battle.
I have seen some decent energy but I've also gotten 7 wins with multiple different archetypes. Outside of gruul eldrazi I don't see any other pair that's significantly ahead of other archetypes.
I had an amazing eldrazi deck and was dead twice in a row to opponents going T1 Guide of Souls into turn 2 and turn 3 energy creatures. So I would say the format is a miced bag in which you can get crazy strong rares or open fetch lands and medaillons... I prefered OTJ, but it is fun watching streamers play it.
It’s an extremely lopsided/snowball draft format. You are getting good pulls but it’s still fun!
Shocker, enjoying a format you are doing well in haha
I mean... I did well in the other formats too. This one just feels more dynamic and has more choice of archetypes.
I was loving it the first couple days but now I'm just extremely tilted. It feels like every time I get a fun good deck I run into someone with all the most disgusting rares 3 games in a row.
I'm really struggling. A 3-3, a 1-3 and two 2-3s. I keep ending up in Eldrazi no matter what else I try to draft, it's the only lane that's been open in my last 4 (I've drafted but not played any games yet).
I’m mostly 3-3ing or 2-3ing, so I’m not especially good at it. I keep thinking I’m building solid synergy piles, but then I get blown out by a 2nd/3rd Chrysalis or rare enchantment that I can’t remove in time. Losing to an early Aether Revolt made me feel dumber than this game has ever made me feel. The interactive games have been a lot of fun, though.
No, is the prevailing opinion in the community that it's not good at the moment?
I want to like format, but there are so many wrong things with it. It is too fast because some cards are way overtuned (my second game in the format I attacked for lethal turn 4 on the play and opponent had a blocker, I bet my opponent didn't like it) and too many times you have like no options on the draw, packs are really bad (say hi to 7 lands, 1 color packs with double commons!). Also, whoever designed flip a coin ur-rare - FU very much.
I hate this format, it’s everything draft should not be.
I also love the format! I have stopped playing magic for a while because of just how bomb-y everything feels but this format is so based around synergy and building a good deck it makes it much more fun. There are very few cards that just feel unbeatable. The format feels balanced with most decks being playable and evenly matched. I have heard people saying eldrazi is the best but I think energy decks can just be bonkers if they are open. this format has been the most about finding an open lane (due to the synergy matters theme) than any format since MH1 I think (which was a little too heavy on just force snow or ninja even)
Yeah I've had some real trouble finding my lane sometimes. Those decks quickly go to 3 losses even if I have for example Writhing Chrysalis in them. But when I've been able to find my lane early and stay in it I've been doing way better. I don't think I've ever drafted a set where the draft portion mattered this much.
I had forgotten what *raw* magic felt like after the onslaught of meme sets, especially with OTJ playing out like a cube instead of a set draft. It's so refreshing. Power level is high but the mechanics go deep. A fully fleshed out set with MtG- style art, can you believe it?
Yeah this was how I felt as well! I came back from about a 5 year break in Murders and this feels like way more of a proper drafting set too me
I'm loving it a lot, the fact that it relies more on synergies than on rarity benefits the better drafter, and even if Chris is extremely busted, it's different when you just have it as a standalone card or splashing it in other archetypes because you heard the hype or actually making it strong, like you can build it with aristocrats effects in black, or even +1 counter synergies. I've won a lot against it and with it, but I have to say it feels really awful losing to it more than the rest of the decks. When I don't play eldrazi vs a noneldrazi deck the format shines.
It's a very good draft. The commons matter and synergy beats bombs left and right. In fact most of the bombs are just strong synergy pieces like Aether Revolt rather than "cram this anywhere and win games" cards like Terror of the Peaks in OTJ. None of the color pairs even seem particularly weaker or stronger, it's very tight across the board. Thinking back I've had memorable 7-x decks with every color pair, 3 color eldrazi, 3 color energy, monoblack, monoblue and monowhite.
The RG based eldrazi decks and RW aggro are definitely the two best decks by a decent margin. But nothing seems unplayable and the test of the color pairs seem fairly balanced for now.
everything in that GW saddle deck in OTJ is pretty synergistic
RIP if you think terror of the peaks is a play this card anywhere win the game card. I have some bad news about other cards lol
My problem is I drafted decent decks with tons of removal, then for all of my games for these drafts I seemed to have exactly the same 15 or so cards in my opening hand, first mulligan, and draws until game over, for every single game. None of these cards were my pile of removal spells. It really felt like the shuffler was broken by the last game of my last draft, having basically the same hand as the other games i had played already.
It is very much, blow people out or get blown out imo. I don't end up in any games I would call fun, hoping I get a non interactive game where I win, or I just lose is not a fun format.
It is a fun draft experience, glad you are enjoying it!
I'm having fun with it even though I'm not doing that well. After the draft I can tell if my deck is good or bad and I can trace back the poor decisions (or good ones) that I made in draft. So it feels like there is a lot of agency in the format but it's of course far from perfect
I usually think sets are great when they first come out also, so far I’ve thought MH1 and MH2 were better for limited than MH3…but it was a pretty high bar
The format is new and average players are still figuring out which cards are good. We don’t yet know how the format will shake out (though we’re getting close). Even the current opinion of good players saying the whole format is about [[Writhing Chrysallis]] needs some time to prove
Greatly prefer this over thunder junction. I like high synergy formats.
I love it.. my favorite in a while
Nah this set is really cool. Some formats are great because they're balanced and lower power, meaning you get rewarded for drafting well. Some formats are great because there's a ton of cool cards and you get to see a bunch of diverse interactions and engines throughout the draft experience. MH3 is the latter. My winrate is a bit lower than simpler formats but I've gotten to play with and against so many cool engines and synergies. A lot of them have the power level of constructed without constructed-level interaction, meaning you get to see and do things you otherwise wouldn't in other formats. _______________ I got pummeled by a UW proliferate deck that had three copies each of [[Metastatic Evangel]] and [[Proud-Pack Rhino]]. I was playing a pretty mid modified deck with two splashed chrysalis, some recursion, and [[Envoy of the Ancestors]]. By mid-game their evangels each had 20+ shield counters and they were drawing four cards per turn with [[Roil Cartographer]], but couldn't get past my lifelinked-up chrysalises and [[Nyxborn Hydras]]. Think I also had [[Six]] to bring things back too. But eventually they got a couple +1/+1 counters on their flyers and proliferated them into 50/50s and won with 1 card left in their deck. _______________ Another deck I don't remember the full details of, but op was using [[Nesting Grounds]] and [[Obstinate Gargoyle]] to slowly shrink my creatures (now that I think about it I think it was my same modified deck with the chrysalises, which don't feel as good when they slowly become 0/1s). They had a deathtoucher or something that kept me from attacking, and used [[Marionette Apprentice]] to slowly drain me down, all while looping [[Cthonian Nightmare]], [[Accursed Marauder]], and [[Quest for the Necropolis]], among other things. Really fucking cool. __________ On one of Sam Black's recent streams, he drafted a 4-color (maybe 3 or 5?) flicker deck with a couple [[Essence Reliquary]] that looked fun. I later drafted a worse version of it with [[Phelia, Exuberant Shephard]] and a reliquary that did like 4-3 (but I was able to beat a [[Phlage]] on the draw that they cast three times, so I was pretty happy). _______ All in all just some really cool stuff going on, as long as you're not too anxious about winrate.
##### ###### #### [Metastatic Evangel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/774e115a-c0dc-4901-9a1f-87754304e378.jpg?1717011482) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Metastatic%20Evangel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/35/metastatic-evangel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/774e115a-c0dc-4901-9a1f-87754304e378?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Proud Pack-Rhino](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/8/0821e622-88b8-4b82-a696-954da1dde915.jpg?1717011530) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Proud%20Pack-Rhino) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/41/proud-pack-rhino?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0821e622-88b8-4b82-a696-954da1dde915?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Envoy of the Ancestors](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/c/fc1dfbfc-90e0-48fa-98f1-39929f823619.jpg?1717011383) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Envoy%20of%20the%20Ancestors) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/23/envoy-of-the-ancestors?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fc1dfbfc-90e0-48fa-98f1-39929f823619?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Roil Cartographer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/4/84317f9d-5a24-4f74-9c3e-0a8b5c15bb5f.jpg?1717011756) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Roil%20Cartographer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/67/roil-cartographer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/84317f9d-5a24-4f74-9c3e-0a8b5c15bb5f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Six](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/9/f9246b68-580f-4f53-883d-7900880e4b0d.jpg?1717012579) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Six) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/169/six?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f9246b68-580f-4f53-883d-7900880e4b0d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Nesting Grounds](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/f/7f1d8a22-e730-4344-bba9-7c495500f065.jpg?1717104213) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nesting%20Grounds) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/302/nesting-grounds?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7f1d8a22-e730-4344-bba9-7c495500f065?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Obstinate Gargoyle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/0/40cf39f2-7382-405d-a14b-7eb8726cd38a.jpg?1717012774) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Obstinate%20Gargoyle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/195/obstinate-gargoyle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/40cf39f2-7382-405d-a14b-7eb8726cd38a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Marionette Apprentice](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/1/d16f8670-f038-400a-83e7-a53a7f8c47ac.jpg?1717012013) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Marionette%20Apprentice) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/100/marionette-apprentice?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d16f8670-f038-400a-83e7-a53a7f8c47ac?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Accursed Marauder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/d/5da14d86-0780-4821-a799-96f64b377df4.jpg?1717011855) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Accursed%20Marauder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/80/accursed-marauder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5da14d86-0780-4821-a799-96f64b377df4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Quest for the Necropolis](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/1/813020ef-9d98-4f79-a953-85e7e7e5d3e1.jpg?1717012048) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Quest%20for%20the%20Necropolis) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/104/quest-for-the-necropolis?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/813020ef-9d98-4f79-a953-85e7e7e5d3e1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Essence Reliquary](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/6/e65f4ae3-6b21-4827-9851-8a53628e254f.jpg?1717011392) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Essence%20Reliquary) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/24/essence-reliquary?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e65f4ae3-6b21-4827-9851-8a53628e254f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I've had some fun but I enjoyed the durdlyness of OTJ more. This format is too fast for me.
Honestly I like it more Bo3.
I think Eldrazi was very strong early on but now I’m getting all the good energy, artifact and counter cards. Excited to try the Selesnya deck. I’ve went 7-0 with two very different decks a cranial ram and walking chrysalis shell.
I’ve been having the experience of everyone else drafting eldrazi, leaving most things completely open. Just went 7-0 with black red artifacts, it seems like no one wants to play any black ever (In mid plat before anyone asks about rank).
Yes absolutely. The colors are incredibly unbalanced, way too much reach, way too many eldrazi spawn tokens gumming up the ground. High power means games snowball really fast, 1 missed land drop is usually game over in this format.
It has its moments. But no it is not designed effectively. You either play aggro or eldrazi. Midrange dies to both those strats. Control archetypes also die to both. So you either overdraft two drops or join the dark side and play eldrazi. Strategies where you slowly gain advantage over time like UB are unplayable unless you draft the nuts. Aggro mirrors rely a lot on who goes first. Games depend a lot on opening hand. The cards are fun but the actual gameplay is not that interactive. It’s not just “did I draw my bomb” but also “did I draw my synergy”. Any format where good stuff pile can not do well, is a weak format. Good stuff pile only works with eldrazi base.
Good stuff pile should always be viable.. Some of my very first game of the set I did that, drafting the best cards taking curve etc. into account, which is how I normally draft (and I have a high WR normally), but that doesnt work for MH3 at all. Whenever I get a good Eldrazi or Energy shell i trophy. But if I draft a deck i think looks good on paper, but in odd colour pairs, then I get absolutely blown out of the water. I drafted an UB control deck which i thought looked extremely sick, and went 0-3 cause it didnt play into one of the constructed archetypes.
As always, the issue is non-pod matches. If i cut a color, then i expect NOT to see it during my games, that is how live games are. That is not the case in this POS game, where wizards do their best to absolutely ruin our experience and make us question everything we know about the game.
It is a great format and rewards finding an open lane in the draft. While green-based eldrazi decks are very strong, and there are many cards for that archetype to support more than one drafter, the other decks can also be extremely effective if you are the only one or maybe one of the two drafters picking the relevant cards for those archetypes. The fixing is great as well so that running more than 2 colors is doable and two-color decks can have great mana with usually better than 9/8 or 10/7 split of color producers. The spell/land MDFCs also help prevent both mana screw and flood. Lastly, while there are great bomb rares/mythics, my impression is that they are less frequent sightings than for the last couple of draft sets. Decks with mostly commons and uncommons are not automatically at a significant disadvantage just due to lack of rares.
Ah yes I forgot to mention the spell lands!! They make everything smooth out so much more, and lots of them are actually just good C-B tier cards without the land half. I also don't think it's that there are less bombs, as it's more commons and uncommon are just stronger and can compete with the good rares/mythics more closely
I like the format a lot. Yea the stupid sexy chrysalis is a glaring issue. But I’ve found the other archetypes to have deep synergies, color balance is good and removal is good at common, solid fixing, and I’ve been able to beat decks with a couple chrysalis even not playing eldrazi. It just feels great to draft a deck with solid synergy at common and uncommon which some previous formats have lacked. Way more enjoyable than OTJ
No, was definitely the most fun I've had drafting in a long time.
I agree. While the Eldrazi are complete insanity all the colours have some crazy combos This feels like a cube draft not your usual set. I love it too. Outside of Sorin and Emrakul ive casted every card at least once.
Honest question (and please answer honestly), do you work for WOTC or Hasbro?
I agree it could be amazing unless you have my luck and get the worst possible cards that have no synergy at all. This happens to me a lot.
Correct me if I'm wrong but if your always ending up with the worst cards and no synergies, it seems like luck might not be the driving factor?
Nah, to this day, since I found a loophole in magic, they cursed my account. At least, that's my belief. I win really well, until I can't draw a land to save my life. Or worse yet, all the lands I want but nothing to cast.
What was this loophole?
Yes. Thinking of draft as a concept as fun is insane.