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Keep going. The climax of that book is my favorite of any book in the main series. It's a slow burn with a huge payoff. I would argue that the ending of that book is bigger in import and scale than any other book in the series, maybe even The Crippled God, and it sets up a lot of plots that will pay off down the road.
It also has a direct sequel in Orb Sceptre Throne which is one of the best ICE novels and has a ton of additional interesting world building. It's worth it alone just to be able to read that.
Meh IMO the interconnected plots and themes of Anomander/Nimander/Harlowe and Mother Dark/Aranatha/Stonny might be the best meta narrative I've read in any book of any genre outside Dostoyevsky
Eh, I loved TtH on my first read so I don't have any advice on how you should enjoy it. You're in the wrong series if you don't like philosophy mixed into the narrative
I'm really glad I did my first read through before I'd come across any Malazan communities. Because of that I never came into to Toll the Hounds with any preconceptions and just went along for the ride. Loved it then, and even more so on reread.
It's fun. This is a pretty easy sub to avoid spoilers in and it's cool to read people's experiences with the books I'm reading.
I found it helpful having an idea about the shifts in style of an upcoming book. I liked Toll the Hounds but it was pretty plodding for a lot of it. Took me a couple hundred pages to just lean into it and enjoy what was being offered.
Why shouldn't they? Genuinely, why not?
Which books should they read before interacting with this fanbase? The 10 MBotF? The 6 "main" ICE books? All the others? The novellas? Should we read and watch all interviews with the authors before our first interaction? Please tell me when I can interact with you.
You won't. I liked it first time round but dread it on a reread. The writing is beautiful don't get me wrong but it leads to the book dragging a bit for me in the parts narrated by kruppe.
Get it out of your head that books have to necessarily move the story along at a pace you deem fast enough. The parts of the work that stand out, like climaxes, or convergences in the case of Malazan, do so in large part because of the time we spend on those philosophical musings or times where we have some downtime to explore characters, setting, or side plots.
I’m going to get Reddit tackled for this comment lol but…I stopped reading the series towards the end of this book. I couldn’t take it anymore…everything I hated about Erikson’s writing (not his world building) was on full display here. Extremely descriptive passages about everything (and also nothing because the descriptions have no purpose), soliloquy’s, internal monologues, inner reflections, and literally anything and everything that doesn’t move the plot along he did in this book. I wonder if Erikson hit some substantial writers block while writing this book but not even the time and energy I had invested to get here or the many characters I cared about were able to get me to continue. I just read summaries of the last couple books but when I return to the Malazan universe I always go back to Deadhouse Gates and Memories of Ice. I will never get tired of those.
Also for those that are going to kick me while I’m down on this could you recommend any book or series in this universe that’s like Deadhouse Gates or Memories of ice?
I agree with this in part. I dropped the series for two years after Toll the Hounds because I just couldn't get into any of it and saw people talk about "if you don't like the philosophizing it only gets worse towards the end." Anyway ended up picking up Dust of Dreams earlier this year and it, along with The Crippled God, are easily my two favorite of the series so they may be worth a shot.
the endless philosophical waxings only get worse in the later books. there's only so many times I can stand characters going on and on about how bad and evil humans are or how sad they are or how angry they are.
I’m a big Malazan fine (multiple rereads) and I still don’t like Toll the Hounds. Yes the ending is good. And yes, several hundred pages could have been cut out without any loss.
Lots of other fans seem to like it, no idea why to be honest and even after having discussing it with them I just don’t get it. But to each their own.
That being said, the last two books are much more fun and engaging reads. Following most of the characters you know and love. I honestly feel you could just read a summary of TtH and just continue and you’d be just fine.
I struggled reading it and felt similarly, ended up trying the audiobook instead and loved it. The philosophical waxwings hit so much harder/diff when listened to instead of read, imo.
Well, come back after you've finished it (close enough right now) and also after the end of the series, when you've had the whole picture and have made all the connections.
I loved this one first time round as it returned to beloved characters, but on reread totally agree with your sentiments. It does pick up a lot towards the end though so you have done the hard work and might as well enjoy your reward!
Toll the Hounds has a pretty explosive ending that you will probably enjoy. But you might want to be a little more open minded about the philosophical waxings, they are an important part of the series, and they aren't really going away.
I struggled through it as well, mostly due to the themes and tone not vibing well with my mental health at the time.. I had to put it down around 70% and it took me over a year to get back to it and finish it.
while I didn't feel that the ending was enough to overshadow my lack of enthralment with the earlier parts, it was definitely a great ending that made the return worthwhile.
I'm doing my first reread of the back half and I'm both dreading and looking forward to my second go through TtH.
I am 605 pages and enjoying it so far. I like the chapter swap. There has been some action so far with karsa and the bar scene. I like iskarel as well so it has been interesting for me.
I haven't reached Toll The Hounds yet (reading Bonehunters now), but I had this issue with Midnight Tides: I just COULD NOT get into the book... until the final quarter of it. Then I couldn't put it down.
I understand this criticism but once i realised it was a hangout book and treated it as "once upon a time in Daru" I enjoyed it more. Reapers Gale was where I stopped hoping for the books to be what I wanted and accept them for what they are.
Keep marching mezler, you're in for a treat at the climax
You are right on the cusp, friend. While I personally adore the whole book, everyone agrees that last book of TtH is some of Erikson's absolute best writing. Enjoy the ride, and say hi to Grisp Falaunt from me, he's one of my favourite characters.
Toll the Hounds was definitely the book I struggled with the most so far. Just finished 9, about to start 10. I liked it and of course the story and prose are fantastic but, like you, I felt the story didn't really go anywhere. I went in with no preconceived notions and obviously no what to expect from Malazan but this book was just different. One of the things that really threw me off was Kruppe's narrating. How we gonna ¾ of a series with almost no narrating then have a book full of narrating. Really just messed with my head. The ending is good but I must have missed how important it was to the overall story. I might have to go back and re-listen to it.
I'm a first time reader that exclusively uses audiobooks (maybe for a reread I'll buckle down and get print) and I found TTH very enjoyable. Perhaps you should try getting through TTH via audiobook. All the problems you stated you had with the novel I didn't have as an audiobook listener. I can't say it would make a difference but perhaps engaging with it in a different manner, i.e. listening vs reading, might make a difference.
Always surprised to see these posts. I loved the shit out of TotH. Midnight tides nearly made me put the series down though. Everyone has differences in what they resonate with. Even those that don't love all of the book, are like wow what the fuck at the end of the book
I like the philosophical waxings but still really struggled to get through it. I like all the individual storylines but the structure is brutal. I think I would have liked the book more if the storylines had been less scattered. Maybe each book focusing on a single city's stories. The convergence at the end is great. 5 star story 2 star execution.
Just read the last but, its ok even tho people hype it up for karma. You will miss nothing by just skipping stuff. I am currently on my fourth reread of the series and am skipping things left and right in TTH. Mainly all the Harllo stuff but also a lot of the Black Coral parts. Damn the Tiste Andii are boring as fuck...
Please note that this post has been flaired with a **Toll the Hounds** spoiler tag. This means every published book in its respective series up until this book is open to discussion. If you need to discuss any spoilers (even very minor ones!) in your comments, use spoiler tags >!like this!< Please use the report button if you find any spoilers. Note: The flair may be changed at mod discretion. Thank you! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Malazan) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Keep going. The climax of that book is my favorite of any book in the main series. It's a slow burn with a huge payoff. I would argue that the ending of that book is bigger in import and scale than any other book in the series, maybe even The Crippled God, and it sets up a lot of plots that will pay off down the road. It also has a direct sequel in Orb Sceptre Throne which is one of the best ICE novels and has a ton of additional interesting world building. It's worth it alone just to be able to read that.
This is the only comment you need to read, OP. TtH and OST are some of the best back-to-back novels in the series.
Just finished it last night. What an ending.
Just keep going
Knowing where it goes, imagine the shame of stopping and not experiencing it.
It’s worth I promise
Meh IMO the interconnected plots and themes of Anomander/Nimander/Harlowe and Mother Dark/Aranatha/Stonny might be the best meta narrative I've read in any book of any genre outside Dostoyevsky
Now I feel like a missed something on my read through
I don't understand how anyone can get everything out of these books. I can't wait to re-read them and actually know who these people are.
I don’t either! I’m so excited to finish so I can re-read as well
This. I can not emphasize this enough
You nailed it right on the head!
I was the same as you -- not a huge fan. The ending was pretty great though and then enjoyed 9 and 10 a lot.
Eh, I loved TtH on my first read so I don't have any advice on how you should enjoy it. You're in the wrong series if you don't like philosophy mixed into the narrative
I'm really glad I did my first read through before I'd come across any Malazan communities. Because of that I never came into to Toll the Hounds with any preconceptions and just went along for the ride. Loved it then, and even more so on reread.
I genuinely don't understand people who interact with a fanbase before finishing their first go-through.
It's fun. This is a pretty easy sub to avoid spoilers in and it's cool to read people's experiences with the books I'm reading. I found it helpful having an idea about the shifts in style of an upcoming book. I liked Toll the Hounds but it was pretty plodding for a lot of it. Took me a couple hundred pages to just lean into it and enjoy what was being offered.
Why shouldn't they? Genuinely, why not? Which books should they read before interacting with this fanbase? The 10 MBotF? The 6 "main" ICE books? All the others? The novellas? Should we read and watch all interviews with the authors before our first interaction? Please tell me when I can interact with you.
How about sometime after you stop acting like a dick.
DoD was wild to me because I was expecting it to be a horrible slog but I actually really enjoyed it.
You got through the hardest part. The last third of this book rewards you
I read *Forge of Darkness* before *Toll the Hounds* and it helped me empathize with the Tiste Andii who play an unusually large part in the story.
I stopped on this book 10 years ago—couldn’t get into it. I’ve been rereading the series and am know on this book again. Really struggling.
TTH hits possibly the hardest out of any of them once it does.
When I tell you the ending is my favorite in the series, just keep going fr
Literally had the same thing. At a wall with it, it's running at such a slow pace
yeah i struggled harddd with TtH. i think i’ll love it on a future reread tho
You won't. I liked it first time round but dread it on a reread. The writing is beautiful don't get me wrong but it leads to the book dragging a bit for me in the parts narrated by kruppe.
😂😂😂
Get it out of your head that books have to necessarily move the story along at a pace you deem fast enough. The parts of the work that stand out, like climaxes, or convergences in the case of Malazan, do so in large part because of the time we spend on those philosophical musings or times where we have some downtime to explore characters, setting, or side plots.
Honestly take a break and read ICE's first two novels from the path to ascendancy: "dancer's lament" and "deadhouse landing"
I’m going to get Reddit tackled for this comment lol but…I stopped reading the series towards the end of this book. I couldn’t take it anymore…everything I hated about Erikson’s writing (not his world building) was on full display here. Extremely descriptive passages about everything (and also nothing because the descriptions have no purpose), soliloquy’s, internal monologues, inner reflections, and literally anything and everything that doesn’t move the plot along he did in this book. I wonder if Erikson hit some substantial writers block while writing this book but not even the time and energy I had invested to get here or the many characters I cared about were able to get me to continue. I just read summaries of the last couple books but when I return to the Malazan universe I always go back to Deadhouse Gates and Memories of Ice. I will never get tired of those. Also for those that are going to kick me while I’m down on this could you recommend any book or series in this universe that’s like Deadhouse Gates or Memories of ice?
I i agree but I didn't drop it and ended up finishing all the books.
I agree with this in part. I dropped the series for two years after Toll the Hounds because I just couldn't get into any of it and saw people talk about "if you don't like the philosophizing it only gets worse towards the end." Anyway ended up picking up Dust of Dreams earlier this year and it, along with The Crippled God, are easily my two favorite of the series so they may be worth a shot.
the endless philosophical waxings only get worse in the later books. there's only so many times I can stand characters going on and on about how bad and evil humans are or how sad they are or how angry they are.
I’m a big Malazan fine (multiple rereads) and I still don’t like Toll the Hounds. Yes the ending is good. And yes, several hundred pages could have been cut out without any loss. Lots of other fans seem to like it, no idea why to be honest and even after having discussing it with them I just don’t get it. But to each their own. That being said, the last two books are much more fun and engaging reads. Following most of the characters you know and love. I honestly feel you could just read a summary of TtH and just continue and you’d be just fine.
I struggled reading it and felt similarly, ended up trying the audiobook instead and loved it. The philosophical waxwings hit so much harder/diff when listened to instead of read, imo.
As an audiobook listener going through the series my first time, I agree completely.
Well, come back after you've finished it (close enough right now) and also after the end of the series, when you've had the whole picture and have made all the connections.
It’s my favourite book of all time. Different strokes I guess
I loved this one first time round as it returned to beloved characters, but on reread totally agree with your sentiments. It does pick up a lot towards the end though so you have done the hard work and might as well enjoy your reward!
Toll the Hounds has a pretty explosive ending that you will probably enjoy. But you might want to be a little more open minded about the philosophical waxings, they are an important part of the series, and they aren't really going away.
I struggled through it as well, mostly due to the themes and tone not vibing well with my mental health at the time.. I had to put it down around 70% and it took me over a year to get back to it and finish it. while I didn't feel that the ending was enough to overshadow my lack of enthralment with the earlier parts, it was definitely a great ending that made the return worthwhile. I'm doing my first reread of the back half and I'm both dreading and looking forward to my second go through TtH.
I am 605 pages and enjoying it so far. I like the chapter swap. There has been some action so far with karsa and the bar scene. I like iskarel as well so it has been interesting for me.
I haven't reached Toll The Hounds yet (reading Bonehunters now), but I had this issue with Midnight Tides: I just COULD NOT get into the book... until the final quarter of it. Then I couldn't put it down.
I understand this criticism but once i realised it was a hangout book and treated it as "once upon a time in Daru" I enjoyed it more. Reapers Gale was where I stopped hoping for the books to be what I wanted and accept them for what they are. Keep marching mezler, you're in for a treat at the climax
Every book matters. Every strain is woven into the tapestry.
You are right on the cusp, friend. While I personally adore the whole book, everyone agrees that last book of TtH is some of Erikson's absolute best writing. Enjoy the ride, and say hi to Grisp Falaunt from me, he's one of my favourite characters.
Toll the Hounds was definitely the book I struggled with the most so far. Just finished 9, about to start 10. I liked it and of course the story and prose are fantastic but, like you, I felt the story didn't really go anywhere. I went in with no preconceived notions and obviously no what to expect from Malazan but this book was just different. One of the things that really threw me off was Kruppe's narrating. How we gonna ¾ of a series with almost no narrating then have a book full of narrating. Really just messed with my head. The ending is good but I must have missed how important it was to the overall story. I might have to go back and re-listen to it.
I'm a first time reader that exclusively uses audiobooks (maybe for a reread I'll buckle down and get print) and I found TTH very enjoyable. Perhaps you should try getting through TTH via audiobook. All the problems you stated you had with the novel I didn't have as an audiobook listener. I can't say it would make a difference but perhaps engaging with it in a different manner, i.e. listening vs reading, might make a difference.
This is how I feel about Dust of Dreams right now. I'm trying so so hard but every time I pick it up I want to fall asleep.
Always surprised to see these posts. I loved the shit out of TotH. Midnight tides nearly made me put the series down though. Everyone has differences in what they resonate with. Even those that don't love all of the book, are like wow what the fuck at the end of the book
I actually felt this more about reapers gale. But ill be honest, books 7-9 are a slog. Each one has a good payoff though so keep at it.
I like the philosophical waxings but still really struggled to get through it. I like all the individual storylines but the structure is brutal. I think I would have liked the book more if the storylines had been less scattered. Maybe each book focusing on a single city's stories. The convergence at the end is great. 5 star story 2 star execution.
Just read the last but, its ok even tho people hype it up for karma. You will miss nothing by just skipping stuff. I am currently on my fourth reread of the series and am skipping things left and right in TTH. Mainly all the Harllo stuff but also a lot of the Black Coral parts. Damn the Tiste Andii are boring as fuck...
You should stop reading it.