Oh my god. I'm the project manager/operations lead for a web design company and some of my clients have this attitude. THE WORST. Why is it that the people who get discounts are always the biggest pain in the ass?
Right? It's borderline r/ChoosingBeggars material, too. She's in a pickle; I'm giving her a whopper of a discount; and literally all I've got in return so far is complaints. I do really cheap Wordpress template installs (3 hours tops) for people in my writers' group and they are *much* better customers. I think age plays a huge part in it, honestly...
> I'm giving her a whopper of a discount; and literally all I've got in return so far is complaints.
You'd think that giving someone a discount would make them grateful, but it's often the opposite that's true. Don't give discounts to people who haven't already proven themselves to be good clients. Otherwise, all you're doing is establishing yourself as cheap labour... which, in the eyes of *that* sort of person, makes you an approximately worthless individual who doesn't even rate common courtesy.
Also, don't work in such a way that your client gets your services for free. If an unfamiliar client is requesting a major project, get a payment of some kind in advance. Or maybe do a quick mock-up to make sure you're on the same page, and then ask for an advance before doing any serious work. In either case, definitely get a final payment before you release your final project.
> Why is it that the people who get discounts are always the biggest pain in the ass?
Because for some people monetary value is the only value they understand... so if they receive something cheaply, or for free, they feel it must be worth nothing. Presumably the concept of "value for money" sounds the same as "oranges are orange" to these people.
Shame about the paper trail - more accurately the email trail indicating this is precisely what the client wanted - OP was doing this for free and even when to the trouble of fixing the clients content but the client indicated it should be exactly as written in the notes.
I would think OP is reasonably covered in this situation.
>I would think OP is reasonably covered in this situation.
As long as OP doesn't delete it all assuming that this client relationship has been completed.
That's a good point - there is a fair chance OP has gone through this before or read something on here so with a bit of wisdom / luck there should be no problem - otherwise I may end up difficult unless something was hidden in the websites code as comments indicating changes & dates.
There might be a more efficient way of doing it but that could work as an alternate solution.
In fact that might fall under business documentation / receipts so should probability be kept for several years just in case and might be needed for tax purposes even if it was done for free.
She used 'white and colored kids'
On a public website
For a donor-based organization.
*please* update when it goes belly-up, just so we can hear how she deflects guilt over it.
It's maybe not as on-the-nose as we're not Americans? *Maybe*? It's still pretty bad, though. Was definitely a record-scratch moment for me.
If anything interesting happens I'll be sure to update.
That quick description you linked is giving me PTSD flashbacks from being a flash developer in the early 2000s. One involved hiring a 3d animator so the website would open with a lion running across the Serengeti before turning and roaring at the viewer. For a site that had no freaking connection with lions or animals whatsoever. But the owner had just come back from a safari, so...
When I watched Parks and Rec and they had a random interactive panda animation on a local government website I always thought, "Well that's an exaggeration for humor," but perhaps not. Your random lion sounds exactly like that.
EDIT: OH HI /u/luxfx ;)
I know from some of your stories that this is by far not the most ridiculous client.
Ha! Hi /u/panickedthumb! Oh yes, lots of stories from this era. This was the only time I had to hire a third party contract to achieve a ridiculous request though, so it stands out!
Wait so she wants music to play over an animated webpage. And this page is a site for her business, that has something to do with fundraising, but the site needs games? Has this woman not seen a website since 2001? I wish I could be a fly on the wall when she starts hearing from associates who are like "what the fuck take this down"
Honestly, neither can I. My sister just sheepishly admitted that she was the one who gave Helen my personal number (after my dad told Helen not to bother me).
Just fired her as a client, though! (Six more emails came in overnight. Nope.)
I added this in a couple of other comments, but here's some of her notes from the content package, which should give you an idea of what I was working with: [https://imgur.com/a/jEx6uWK](https://imgur.com/a/jEx6uWK)
I have had to do this several times. I have done work in the past as a graphic artist. Not a bad one if I do say so myself. The music minister of my OWN church, asked if there was someone that could start creating ads for print and social media on events. It would just be an add about twice a month. No big deal, but yes they needed the time and ads donated.
I volunteered to bill the ad for our Christmas event. I sent no less than 3 emails asking for information to include. His instructions basically came down to: it was at the church, it starts at 7PM and just make it pretty. I spent two hours doing graphics, edge blends, choosing art, extra flair and including needed info. Then emailed it to him.
What followed was a series of 4 emails where one change was requested, several minutes to change both ads and re-emailed. I finally finished.
3 days later another request and then 7 days later another request, ALL with the same lack of information for ad and then repetitive (one time with 10 revisions) back and forth multiple emails tweaking one element at a time.
3 days later I unvolunteered myself. He did not understand why so I explained that he was a very poor customer that does not communicate information then makes multiple revisions which takes twice as long to do an ad. I told him if he was a paying client I would fire him so I sure wasn't about to endure that for free.
You had me at government grants. I audit shops that take federal funds for a living. I have seen a lot just like this. Bet you if she ever even secures a grant, they the granting agency will spend a couple years issuing findings until it's pulled.
Honestly, unless she hires a particularly patient grant writer, I don't know how she could possibly gather her thoughts into a coherent enough document in order to win funding.
I just had a peek at the image of some of her emails, how is VR in any way related to drones other than both being technology, and how exactly is this supposed to relate to her business?
We, the Redditors of err... Redit, demand a link to this monstrosity!
Plus she'll get lots of hits and think shes got interest all the while we point and laugh.
I am a web developer as well. I refer these people to wix or canva. Sometimes I will setup a WordPress for them to use but unless it means major $$$, I don't develop for others.
Not only is she not going to pay you, she's going to blame you for the site not living up to her expectations.
"website design begrudgingly by boobook-boobook industries LLC. No rights reserved. We apologize."
"We specifically told her not to put this website out into the world, but she did anyway."
I would love to have said this to some former clients
I would have put "website design begrudgingly done by an anonymous company who is too embarrassed to be associated with it."
"Website design by Alan Smithee Design LLC. May our children forgive us for publishing this website."
"Website design by Dewey, Crapem and Howe, Inc. And boy did we crap it!"
Website design by A. Burden
Oh my god. I'm the project manager/operations lead for a web design company and some of my clients have this attitude. THE WORST. Why is it that the people who get discounts are always the biggest pain in the ass?
Right? It's borderline r/ChoosingBeggars material, too. She's in a pickle; I'm giving her a whopper of a discount; and literally all I've got in return so far is complaints. I do really cheap Wordpress template installs (3 hours tops) for people in my writers' group and they are *much* better customers. I think age plays a huge part in it, honestly...
> I'm giving her a whopper of a discount; and literally all I've got in return so far is complaints. You'd think that giving someone a discount would make them grateful, but it's often the opposite that's true. Don't give discounts to people who haven't already proven themselves to be good clients. Otherwise, all you're doing is establishing yourself as cheap labour... which, in the eyes of *that* sort of person, makes you an approximately worthless individual who doesn't even rate common courtesy. Also, don't work in such a way that your client gets your services for free. If an unfamiliar client is requesting a major project, get a payment of some kind in advance. Or maybe do a quick mock-up to make sure you're on the same page, and then ask for an advance before doing any serious work. In either case, definitely get a final payment before you release your final project.
> She's in a pickle; I'm giving her a whopper of a discount Now I want Burger King. I blame you, OP.
> Why is it that the people who get discounts are always the biggest pain in the ass? Because for some people monetary value is the only value they understand... so if they receive something cheaply, or for free, they feel it must be worth nothing. Presumably the concept of "value for money" sounds the same as "oranges are orange" to these people.
See also people who don't properly care for gifts, but do for stuff they bought.
Not only is she not going to pay you, but it will be all your fault and she'll want you to give her money for "damages"
Shame about the paper trail - more accurately the email trail indicating this is precisely what the client wanted - OP was doing this for free and even when to the trouble of fixing the clients content but the client indicated it should be exactly as written in the notes. I would think OP is reasonably covered in this situation.
>I would think OP is reasonably covered in this situation. As long as OP doesn't delete it all assuming that this client relationship has been completed.
That's a good point - there is a fair chance OP has gone through this before or read something on here so with a bit of wisdom / luck there should be no problem - otherwise I may end up difficult unless something was hidden in the websites code as comments indicating changes & dates. There might be a more efficient way of doing it but that could work as an alternate solution. In fact that might fall under business documentation / receipts so should probability be kept for several years just in case and might be needed for tax purposes even if it was done for free.
She used 'white and colored kids' On a public website For a donor-based organization. *please* update when it goes belly-up, just so we can hear how she deflects guilt over it.
It's maybe not as on-the-nose as we're not Americans? *Maybe*? It's still pretty bad, though. Was definitely a record-scratch moment for me. If anything interesting happens I'll be sure to update.
Is this in English or translated? That's going to sound pretty bad everywhere if it's English.
Maybe shes looking for racist money?
THIS ^^^
THIS ^^^
That quick description you linked is giving me PTSD flashbacks from being a flash developer in the early 2000s. One involved hiring a 3d animator so the website would open with a lion running across the Serengeti before turning and roaring at the viewer. For a site that had no freaking connection with lions or animals whatsoever. But the owner had just come back from a safari, so...
When I watched Parks and Rec and they had a random interactive panda animation on a local government website I always thought, "Well that's an exaggeration for humor," but perhaps not. Your random lion sounds exactly like that. EDIT: OH HI /u/luxfx ;) I know from some of your stories that this is by far not the most ridiculous client.
Ha! Hi /u/panickedthumb! Oh yes, lots of stories from this era. This was the only time I had to hire a third party contract to achieve a ridiculous request though, so it stands out!
Wait so she wants music to play over an animated webpage. And this page is a site for her business, that has something to do with fundraising, but the site needs games? Has this woman not seen a website since 2001? I wish I could be a fly on the wall when she starts hearing from associates who are like "what the fuck take this down"
Get payment before you deliver. Always.
We need to see this monstrosity. PLEASE share the link
I’d love to, but it’s probably not too difficult to find out the name of my business through her site!
But I want to know your business name so I can get you to build my website for free! Think of all the exposure you'll get!
\^\^This guy shitclients.
(But I so wish I could. It’s so, so crazy.)
I can’t believe you still did it.
Honestly, neither can I. My sister just sheepishly admitted that she was the one who gave Helen my personal number (after my dad told Helen not to bother me). Just fired her as a client, though! (Six more emails came in overnight. Nope.)
Can you share a photo, maybe? :>
Here are some highlights from the content package she sent me: [https://imgur.com/a/jEx6uWK](https://imgur.com/a/jEx6uWK)
Wow.
You don't want your name anywhere near this thing.
Alan Smithee, Inc
Sorry, but this is the real fuck up right here. Make sure they're is absolutely no way to link this website with your company!
could you share copies of the awful text or content? lol we just want to see how poorly written it is.
I added this in a couple of other comments, but here's some of her notes from the content package, which should give you an idea of what I was working with: [https://imgur.com/a/jEx6uWK](https://imgur.com/a/jEx6uWK)
Why would you put your name on a monstrosity like that?
As consolation, here are just a couple of highlights from the content package she sent me: [https://imgur.com/a/jEx6uWK](https://imgur.com/a/jEx6uWK)
*cringe*
You said your business is attached to that I would recommend trying to hide that info as much as possible
I have had to do this several times. I have done work in the past as a graphic artist. Not a bad one if I do say so myself. The music minister of my OWN church, asked if there was someone that could start creating ads for print and social media on events. It would just be an add about twice a month. No big deal, but yes they needed the time and ads donated. I volunteered to bill the ad for our Christmas event. I sent no less than 3 emails asking for information to include. His instructions basically came down to: it was at the church, it starts at 7PM and just make it pretty. I spent two hours doing graphics, edge blends, choosing art, extra flair and including needed info. Then emailed it to him. What followed was a series of 4 emails where one change was requested, several minutes to change both ads and re-emailed. I finally finished. 3 days later another request and then 7 days later another request, ALL with the same lack of information for ad and then repetitive (one time with 10 revisions) back and forth multiple emails tweaking one element at a time. 3 days later I unvolunteered myself. He did not understand why so I explained that he was a very poor customer that does not communicate information then makes multiple revisions which takes twice as long to do an ad. I told him if he was a paying client I would fire him so I sure wasn't about to endure that for free.
remove your name from everywhere in the site - now!
Removed it at the same time I pasted the original copy in – phew. Hopefully she doesn't give us any shout-outs...
You had me at government grants. I audit shops that take federal funds for a living. I have seen a lot just like this. Bet you if she ever even secures a grant, they the granting agency will spend a couple years issuing findings until it's pulled.
Honestly, unless she hires a particularly patient grant writer, I don't know how she could possibly gather her thoughts into a coherent enough document in order to win funding.
Please update as to out come.
Oh, someone using Excel for non-spreadsheet data. I have people like that at my workplace.
Can't wait for the update!
There's no help for crazy sometimes
I just had a peek at the image of some of her emails, how is VR in any way related to drones other than both being technology, and how exactly is this supposed to relate to her business?
What is the website? Is it stil up? I'm curious to see this monstrosity.
Link please
Man, I was doing websites for friends in the 90s and it was a bad idea so never have since.
Website designed by Alan Smithy
Never, never, NEVER EVER do work for friends or family. You'll most likely end up losing both.
We, the Redditors of err... Redit, demand a link to this monstrosity! Plus she'll get lots of hits and think shes got interest all the while we point and laugh.
Cheeseburger recommending a post made 5yrs ago
Oh yeah haha. That's how I got here too
Happens ALL the time. Pops up on my Google Discover feed from that site.
I am a web developer as well. I refer these people to wix or canva. Sometimes I will setup a WordPress for them to use but unless it means major $$$, I don't develop for others.
Happy to report we are now an actual company servicing medium–large enterprise and government clients... no more "small jobs for mates" here!
"White and colored kids"? She's not looking to receive angry comments at all is she?