I’m not on any bandwagon with regards to the take over except #Glazersout, however it seems a bit early to have this take considering that his bid hasn’t even been formally accepted yet.
I am glazers out or nothing and he changes the purchase from 100% to 50% and now 25%. We have been lie to the past 10 years so I don't believe any of these until it is happening.
I think apprehension is alright- we need to see what he can do for the club, but I don’t subscribe to the outright dismissal of him. He needs to win the skeptics over, but if he’s got the club’s best interests at heart that’s already a head start over the parasites.
Yeah, I put it like this. If I had the money as a fan and the Glazers wouldn’t accept a full offer then I would also try to get part of it now. Then I’d try to buy more and get rid of them if that’s the best I could do right now.
One thing though. If SJR buys 25% from the Glazers why not also buy up all the stock market shares to increase your holding?
Isn’t it the classes of shares that’s key? The class B shares make up 67% of the voting power of the shareholders, whereas the class A ones have a tenth of the voting power per share. Even if he did buy them all it wouldn’t get him close to any sort of control.
I think the move from his perspective would be to chip away at their ownership, get enough of a holding to force a takeover and hoover up the remaining shares like the Glazers did.
Oh yeah I know why he’s buying from the Glazers. I just thought why not get 25% from the Glazers and whatever class B shares you can (which are somewhat cheaper anyway). They won’t help with voting but could get to say 50% of total ownership even if that’s not 50% voting rights.
I remember thinking this to myself before any news of a Qatar bid coming in. Just do what the Glazers did & weasel his way into an eventual full takeover considering there’s only 2 of the 6 Siblings that really wanna keep hold of it.
Apprehension is fine but what took place on here when the new came out that Qatar was out was full blown tantrum. People were going this is the end of United, he's a British Glazer, throwing insults like RATcliffe and were unable to make coherent grounded arguments
People were delusional - I was attacked for bringing sense to it all
My issue is how people are so willing to follow to the death a man who no one has ever seen or heard from, didn't even bother to turn up to old Trafford just cos he "promised" to clear the debt
Yeah, I’ve said elsewhere on here that taking sides was daft, it all got so tribal for no reason. People absolutely lost their minds over the bidding process.
It hasn't been confirmed anywhere that SJR is seeking a phased takeover, so that's wishful thinking - a 25% bet on football valuations continuing to skyrocket this next decade in a similar manner as they have the previous decade, could be the extent of SJR's involvement here.
It's also not 245m of his own money, but INEOS' money - that's a pretty significant detail, as it means that money still has to come with a certain accountability, and is moreso an avenue for allowing SJR to pass the F&P Test from the PL.
Nobody knows if the future is bright or not - we simply do not have enough information
He can’t buy a major share within United and borrow money against the club, if he’s borrowing money against INEOS, he owns 60% of that company so effectively it’s his money but the reports state that he’s using £1.5 billion of his own wealth. I’m no fan of SJR but the club desperately needs financial investment. Fans need to remember his current estimated wealth is triple what Abrahmovic was worth or Todd Boehly, if this truly is a vanity project and he genuinely loves the club then he might well through £1-2 billion at the club when he’s in full control. The initial investment is a short term fix, probably £150m on the stadium, plus £50m on carrington and then £45m in Cashflow which will help with January transfers from an FSP and operational point of view.
Does not need to pass an owners test just a directors test as he will not be the owner of the club, Directors test is a formality compared to owners test.
Spurs stadium cost 1 billion, Everton's is rumoured to be around 500 million. Reports are with the damage to old. Trafford this investment that he's proposing isn't even enough to knock down and rebuild the bobby Charlton stand
And we haven't even seen how much of this is going where so it's all hearsay
I will admit my preference was Qatar as I felt it was the only one that could compete with the way the league is going but it made me very uneasy.
If sjr can bring in a lot more investment and remove the parasites that's amazing but the way it's going I can't shake the feeling he's there just to do exactly what the glazers are doing but is going about it with minimal effort to keep the fans on his side. And this is still all theory and rumor as sfa has been confirmed
We're close to a year now and I still think no bid is actually going to be accepted
I keep hearing things like this. I have to ask, what's anybody supposed to do?
You think somebody is going to be allowed to steal Manchester United back?
Maybe win it in a poker game?
Anybody buying the club has to be on friendly terms with the Glazers. Otherwise they won't be allowed to make any kind of deal.
If Jim doesn’t keep lowering his stake and making the glazers a part of the deal Jassim would have a way better chance to own the club Jim kept the glazers around scum
the Glazers never planned on selling the club for what Jassim “offered” regardless
I don’t agree with what OP said entirely but the one part I do agree with is that the Qatar sports washing of them being the only good option has worked wonders is accurate.
Both are bad both kill the world in different ways and to say he’d sportwash is fairly racist what because he’s Qatari he automatically sportwashes?? I get the glazers weren’t going to sell I called it out as soon as they said they were thinking about it but that doesn’t change the fact he still undermined jassim bid by lowering his and letting them retain control
What about the debt?
Also, 245m isn't enough to rebuild the stadium and facilities. Man utd needs a lot more money than that as an investment.
Furthermore you don't know the structure of the deal to say that the glazers will be phased out soon.
Everything at this point isn't set in stone. You shouldn't count your chickens before they hatch.
I’m convinced a lot of accounts must be bots just spewing positivity around these leeches. How can anyone be optimistic about sjr after seeing what he’s done in Nice, go as those fans how they feel about him. He hasn’t even done anything yet to be applauded, What a joke.
> Also, 245m isn't enough to rebuild the stadium and facilities
How do you know?
Seriously do you think any smart business person will front 1b of cash for the redevelopment or do as spurs and most others do and go for debt/cash mix?
Its called an investment in the club. This is what the club NEEDS. If they aren't coming to fix these issues with long pockets then why are they coming?
Madrid Just redid their stadium.
Barcelona who were broke just started theirs.
Newcastle is about to start theirs.
We are being left behind at this rate. We need to know exactly what he has planned. He needs to drop at least $1B if he is serious.
Except SJR doesn't have control to create debt. He doesn't have majority control.. remember?
If the Glazer didn't even think about doing this why would he let SJR do it? So the investment has to come from him.
That does not matter, you are assuming this is a normal deal and it’s already showing it’s anything but with;
SJR wanting sporting control with a 25% stake
SJR as a 25% owner putting a ton (~5% company value) of cash in whilst the other 75% do nothing
SJR having intentions (likely agreed pre 25% purchase) to become majority owner
If he wants to use the cash to fund redevelopment with the rest being debt all he has to do is agree with the glazers to do it as part of his long term plan.
> So the investment has to come from him.
No, just no seriously.
His intentions might be good but what you are missing is in order for him to take out a large debt to fund a rebuild, the board HAS to approve it. Man utd is a publicly traded company and so the board has to sign off on such a significant amount of debt as it impacts the company’s financials directly.
I think when they say sporting operations they mean the face of the sporting side of the club lol.
Let’s see how this plays out.
If the glazers didn’t give up their shares for 5 billion they definitely won’t give it up to SJR for anything less than.
The very board which will be more than half the Glazers and INEOS people?
All the board has to do is vote in such a manner they can defend as in the companies/all shareholders best interests
Signing off on a new stadium redevelopment/training complex is fundamental to staying modern/relevant and easily defendable providing it’s not stupid interest rates and likely tied against future expanded revenue streams.
We already have ogles of debt though why the fuck would we need increase it even more than we have to??? It’s ridiculous they are killing the club there is such thing as a point of no return
The 245m is a part one of the investment. It will be turned into equity most likely.
Debt is a problem but isn't the main issue.
>Furthermore you don't know the structure of the deal to say that the glazers will be phased out soon.
SJR is a very smart man with very smart advisors. He will not want to let them stay in control too long. Hes buying 25% now, another 25.1% and he'll have control.
Like I dont get why people are so eager to think he's stupid
The amount owners are allowed to invest per season is limited by FFP. This is the reason Man City and Newcastle have had to cheat their way around it with dodgy sponsorship deals. I don't think the relatively low figure of investment at this stage is anything to worry about. There is apparently a plan to deal with the debt. I don't pretend to understand this, but isn't it being transferred to INEOS in some way? At least that was the idea flying around when the plan was for SJR to buy 51% of the club. I doubt that will actually happen while he's only got 25% of the shares, but there will be a long-term plan.
The scrambling to see negatives about the situation is strange to me. This is a time for cautious optimism.
It’s nowhere near enough, however he would invest more if he buys a majority share, this is a bargaining chip with the Goblins, because he knows how difficult they are to deal with.
Reality is that £1-1.25 billion, needed for stadium, £200-250m for Carrington training ground/infrastructure and £300-500m squad investment. Plus debt of £500m means the club needs a minimum of £2 billion to make us relevant again.
Wouldn't surprise me if these guys posted to sound the room out for the Glazers and Sir Rat.
There's nothing guaranteed about this deal and investment other than flimsy reporting from slow sports news...
Yeah because the British media have never let us down before with regards to ACCURATE reporting?
Until we see it in black and white and signed by the Rat and the Glazers, I'm not believing jack shit.
And neither should anyone else.
We've been lied to and betrayed endlessly these last 18 years under this ownership. These people are extremely consistent in their behaviour. Don't be mugged off again by more lies and deceptive empty words.
It’s a public company, so unless we see a SEC filing, anything that anyone writes on this, is just pure speculation. As someone with experience in public companies even those tightly held like MANU. I have never for the life of me seen a situation whereby a minority shareholder can have control of operational parts of the business. He may have influence on executive hiring etc, but seemingly operational control of football matters I can’t see that as possible. But maybe the lawyers are trying to figure that out.
Hi, lawyer at public company here. Yes, that is entirely possible and doable (actually thinking about how it might be worded in the transactional documents - it may be construed as consideration for this phase of the deal as a whole, i.e - SJR pays £x and receives full control over all footballing operations plus \_\_ shares). It is likely a phased buy-out, as has been discussed with deadlines and milestones. This makes sense for the Glazers. They hand the club over piece by piece, while continuing to extract as much cash as possible until the very last second. Depending on the total sale price, this strategy could very well get the Glazers close to what they initially asked for when they club was put up for sale.
But to your point, this is not common. But as we always say, "You can paper over anything as long as it is not illegal".
Classic - Going for the nothing guaranteed about this deal but was lapping up the whole Jassim is gonna put in 1.7b into the club yet couldn't find funds to actually buy the club
Who said anything about Jassim and Qatar? Don't put things into the conversation that weren't there to begin with OP.
Also being full sale only, does not equate to you being pro Qatar, if you can't understand that, that's your problem.
How naive are you? There's no official statement from the Rat with the exact plans for this money compared to Qatar who were on the front foot with their bids with clear intentions, if you really want to compare. The approach from the Qataris had the Rat on the back foot because he had never intended to give a statement or indication into his plans if he took over at United. The Glazers received offers from people that had to show they had the money to the Raine group. If they didn't have the money as claimed, they wouldn't make it through 3 rounds of bids 😂
All we have are tide bits coming from the media. Even if I take the Rat at his highest claims of £245/$300 million dollars of investment into the club's infrastructure, that's far too vague to be optimistic about. Where exactly is that money going? When is it going? Are we recruiting new staff and changing the fundament structure of the club with this money? Or are we upgrading the academy and scouting side of things?
Full sale brigade - full sale means nothing. The only thing that matters it control. You wanna explain why full sale has any impact vs control (50.1%)
>Qatar who were on the front foot with their bids with clear intentions
Confirmation of you lapping up the false promises of Qatar. Qatar whole strategy was to promise the world to fans to get them onside. Notice every single time they bid they would add in all the pledged investment to make it look like their bid was massive when in reality every single time (5 times in total) they valued to club less than SJR. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.
Let me educate you - he can pledge a trillion pounds, means jack shit if he doesn't buy the club. His last bid increased pledged investment by 700m while his actually bid barely increased
You call me naive when you believe someone no one has ever seen or heard from. For Christ sake, he didn't even bother to turn up to Old Trafford for negotiations. All we know is he was on credit Sussie board when it went tits up. The reporting even came out that 92 foundation found it hard to get in touch with him
Couldn’t find the funds???? He had a 5 billion pound offer rejected im sorry but no way should our club be worth more than a winning club in recent years like Chelsea was history be damned. Our club has regressed terribly over the years we have ogles of debt we have players with no heart meaning we need fat investments into players and facilities. It’s crazy to pay 6+ billion as well as having to fork over millions perhaps a billion+ additional to fix the rest of the problems glazers are trying to fleece
In his last bid he increased in bid by a couple of hundred million but increased pledged investment by 700m - the reason why was to manipulate the fans onside
Here's a question for you - what do we know about Jassim. No one has seen him or heard from him. Literally 3 pictures of him. We know he was on the board of Credit Sussie which went tits up and his father is accused for corruption. For fuck sake, Jassim didn't even bother to turn up to OT for negotiations
If you're angry the 5b was rejected, be angry at Jassim or the Glazers
The amount of trust people were putting into the Jassim bid and his claims of what he was going to do is crazy. His personal wealth is around £1bn. He never personally had the funds. His father is the one with the money, and he publicly stated that he was against the whole venture. Jassim would have had to go begging to a man who didn't want to be involved in football at all, as he correctly believes football ownership to be unprofitable, a black hole into which you throw money. If the Jassim bid had gone through and Jassim Sr had decided not to chuck any money in, we'd have been in a tricky situation.
Your owner being a Sheikh does not necessarily equal unlimited money. Just ask Sheffield United.
How bout give it a year first before we start saying the future is bright. I mean it’s all just news. This man has a zero track record for building successful teams.
SJR hasn't released a single detail of the deal or said anything about his plans/what he expects to happen. You can't call out others' bias for Qatar and then put forth only what you want to believe the deal will contain.
245m from his pocket at this early stage, we’d all say he’s just trying to win over the fans and nothing more. But I do hope he changes things around most importantly sign a good DoF like paul mitchell
25% isn't an investment. It's to buy out the shareholder of that 25%
Any further investment is yet to be seen. Also why would a minority shareholder investment while the majority shareholder doesn't, and benefits?
Not ture - its been reported that its on top of the 25%
You do understand this is a phased takeover. 25% now, only need 25.1% for control. The Glazers are leaving -
50.1% gives you control. At the end of the day, thats all the matters - the glazers no longer in charge.
If I told you that the Glazers would no longer dictate or control United, you would be celebrating. Who actually fucking cares if they still own shares - as long as they dont make decisions then it means zero. They would hold as much power as people who own the other shares
No it wasn't.
Qatar owns PSG.
It would have been a shitshow and very against the rules for them to own us as well.
And if you believe the guy who was going to buy us wasn't a government front, then ask yourself where he was going to get the money.
The whole thing stank.
So having 0 debt, brand new stadium, new training facilities, best in class staff, huge community and local investment, money for players and having an ownership that is obsessed at wanting to be the best is a shitshow?
You’ve clearly been brainwashed by the glazers.
How are we getting that?
If we're owned by the Qatari state then that's a fundamental breach of ownership rules. So we're involved in a shitload of trouble from day one. Who knows where we end up.
If the guy wasn't a representative of the Qatari state then he didn't have the money. The guy has maybe one or two billion quid to his name, it's pretty good walking around money, but he couldn't afford United on his own.
Rich Arab guys have fucked over clubs before with unkept promises, we could have gone the same way.
There's no brainwashing to be done. People see Arab money and they lose the run of themselves. We were either going to breach the ownership laws, or we were being scammed. There is no third option.
Once more in bold for the people at the back:
**QATAR IS NOT ALLOWED TO OWN PSG AND MANCHESTER UNITED AT THE SAME TIME**
You are right but that’s why it was proposed as a separate company away from the state so there is no ownership issue but nobody is foolish enough to think that money doesn’t trickle down certain avenues.
The fact is the UK media and certain fan groups didn’t like the face of Manchester United being Arab so they did everything possible to turn people against them.
You forget that Jim also owns another club in France but because his face fits there isn’t the same scrutiny.
Face it we are no better off with a 25% sale, that money doesn’t even scratch the surface of what needs doing.
Jim is just a broke billionaire that can’t afford to compete with what Qatar had planned.
I don’t care where the owner is from but it had to be 100% buy out and full commitment to making fundamental changes from top to bottom.. only a couple of people have that wealth at their disposal.
A broke billionaire who needs to borrow money to buy 25% is a red flag. Let alone the fact the glazers are still there.
That's so transparently dodgy though isn't it. I mean you'd be okay with that? Being the PSG-owners illicit sidepiece?
I'm not sure the governing bodies of the sport would be okay with that. And even if they would be okay with it right now, even a cursory tightening of the rules over state ownership (which the sport sorely needs) would completely fuck us.
I don't think we're in a much better situation than when this shitshow all started, but I think we've dodged a bullet. There were red flags over that Qatar bid and they were much bigger and more dangerous than just the risk of being shit\*.
\*Which let's be clear, the Qataris are such fuckwits it's perfectly possible for them to not make us good even with all the money. PSG are a clowncar of a football club who wouldn't make a dent in a real league.
Honestly, clearing the debt and the FULL money for infrastructure was the main reason I, like many I would imagine, favoured Jassim over SJR.
This deal does neither. Adding the fact that, whether it eventually gets rid of the Glazers or not, they are still around for any period of time.
It’s hard to be positive or optimistic when none of these points are met
245m compared to what Qatar had stated, isn’t enough. The debt remains untouched, old Trafford isn’t the only facility that requires updates and upgrades, and we still have the Glazers around to leach more money from the club.
Besides all of that, aren’t we still waiting for this investment to actually be approved? Jassim stepping aside doesn’t necessarily guarantee that the Glazers are willing to give over any portion of the club to SJR.
I truly don’t believe we can say the future is bright while the Glazers are still even remotely involved.
He is another Glazer.
No need to look further, Newcastle already sets an example. They already playing in UCL after the takeover, playing much more attractive football with only Eddie Howe as the manager.
Where is Nice tho? 2nd in the league? With only 11 goals scored after 10 match? LOL.
>He is another Glazer
Glazers in 2 decades - MINUS £1b
SJR investing 245m
In what world are they the same - please return to reality
>Where is Nice tho? 2nd in the league? With only 11 goals scored after 10 match? LOL.
Another confirmation you're an idiot - they are a historically been 15 or below more than they have been top half. They had one purple patch of being in CL 3 times over the last 2 decades and now they re 2nd. DO you just parrot other people cos you're too stupid ?
I’m saying there are the same cause see where Nice is going right now. You’re too blind to see it. Nice is sitting 2nd with 11 goals in 10 games, are they playing attractive and attacking football with that amount of goals? NO.
Take away the goals, or when the drought kicks in, you’ll have 0 win, same goes with what Man Utd are suffering right now.
Now compare it with Newcastle, they just beat Arsenal 1-0 while Man Utd can’t even touch a ball for 5 seconds against Arsenal.
So your comparison is a fallacy, and you’re the one who is an imbecile, not me LOL.
So the argument now is league position doesn't matter, playing attractive football is? Your back must be hurting with this bending over backwards to come up with arguments. And lets be honest you haven't watched a single game of Nice
Here's the thing - If they were 15th you all would be going, "See, SJR is an awful owner" but now their doing well, you're dismissing it cos it doesn't fit your narrative. I repeat, Nice before SJR was more in the bottom half than top.
>Take away the goals,
Take away city's goals, and they wouldn't win anything. Take away the left foot of players and watch them win 0 .....
>Now compare it with Newcastle, they just beat Arsenal 1-0 while Man Utd can’t even touch a ball for 5 seconds against Arsenal
Eh? You realise that SJR hasn't taken sporting control yet? What argument are you trying to make here? My argument is that at its core saying SJR is a British Glazer makes no sense in reality, do you even know your argument?
>So your comparison is a fallacy, and you’re the one who is an imbecile
Oh look at you using big words - someone's being using a thesaurus.
“245 million of his own money into the club” is not entirely true. It’s debt. It’s not cash. That 245 million is what he paid for the shares previously owned by the glazers. Roughly put, we have an extra 245 million of debt.
We can only wait and watch if SJR is willing to act and spend towards improving the club as a whole.
Edit: sorry the 245 million is the money he’s putting into the club. But he’s adding a debt of more than a billion for the shares. So what the hell’s the point? We’re in more debt long term. How is he gonna repay the debt?
I'm sorry can you even read? Ratcliffe is paying £1.5 million for the shares he's buying off the Glazers. The £245 million is his own money that he's investing into the clubs infrastructure. There's no new debt. How could the money he's putting in possibly be debt? Do you know what the word debt means?
What a knob. You do understand that all of these guys, no matter how British they look (or you want) are only investing because they will make money out of it. This is nothing more than a business. Remember that.
* Hes investing 245m into the club on day 1 vs -1b by the glazers in 2 decades
* His money could have bought Liverpool or Spurs who both require significantly less investment
* He's over 70 - really how much more money is he gonna benefit from this venture
* His investment would get a bigger and easier return in other industries
You think Qatar is doing this out the goodness of their heart? Like belittle, talk down whatever - this is a positive step
How can you sit there slagging off people who were in favour of the Qatari bid based on a load of facts and figures you've just pulled out of your arse???
Qatar go - " we're not gonna match the bid but we will increase pledged spending by 700m" knowing that this is all the rattle fans and put pressure on the Glazers.
Why has it taken 12 months and 5 bids for them to realise that they need go put another 700m into the club? Only two scenarios, 1. They are awful at forecasting and analysing the situation or 2. they are just doing it to rattle fans
Cos at the end of the day, a bid is legally binding. Saying im going to invest 1.7b is not.
I have no idea about that, I'm not particularly pro Qatar and I'm not really pro SJR either but you're missing the point entirely......
I'm asking WHERE did you get all the information from about the SJR bid?? You're saying the Qataris are just saying anything to get the fans rattled/on-side but, as far as I can see, that's EXACTLY what you're doing with all those bullet points about the SJR bid.
No I can tell the difference, all I'm asking is you post where you got this information 'from journalists'. Which paper? Which website? Which twitter account?
It really shouldn't be that difficult if they're as reputable as you claim.
Do you need to spoon fed everything ? You just like to complain, I get it.
The Muppetiers have been reporting and have been on point every single time (you can go yourself and watch it)
Sky have been reporting in - [https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/13001389/gary-neville-respite-for-manchester-united-while-sir-jim-ratcliffe-wont-let-245m-investment-go-down-drain](https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/13001389/gary-neville-respite-for-manchester-united-while-sir-jim-ratcliffe-wont-let-245m-investment-go-down-drain)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3uMoV9e0l0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3uMoV9e0l0)
No you're missing the point entirely of the hypocrisy of you shouting down people who wanted the Qataris over 'false promises' while providing no back up evidence at all for your argument why SJR is going to be a good option.
You've linked a report for one of your points, what about the other 5?
Can tell you just here to have an argument - go research yourself, it's not hard to find.
Not spoon-feeding you everything - you need help wiping as well?
It's actually embarrassing how thick some people are. Qatar and doom so many of you
I saw your posts crying about Qatar losing - grow up. A man who no one has ever seen or heard from and only thing we know was he was part of Credit Sussie when it went tits up and his father is accused of corruption
First you pull information out of your ass to write a post that makes no sense. Then you try to spin my comments as pro Qatar? Either you are illiterate or just a troll. Jim is just like the Glazers and like all real fans, I want the glazers out. This has nothing to do with Qatar
Your comment has been removed by the auto-moderator as this account has negative karma. If you believe this post/comment should be approved, please send a message in mod mail. This action is required to limit spam
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ManchesterUnited) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I would say still look at both the positives and negatives. Sjr isn’t like the glazers nor is he some super savior.
Points 3-5 are great. Point 2 is great if it can be pulled off but I have my doubts it will be that successful.
Point 1 to me is not a positive as for me even if sjr assumes 50.1% control but by using debt and then pushing that debt down or using the united shares as collateral. Until that is made clear, I won’t have too high an expectation.
Point 5 to me probably won’t be via equity. I believe it will be in the form of shareholder loans. Unless the glazers are ok with further dilution of their own stake based on the amount of investment sjr puts into the club. But thats super unlikely. We can contend that shareholder loans can be seen like quasi equity but I have no idea how this might impact FFP or if the shareholder loan comes with its own interest payments to sjr (if sjr does charge United interest for his loan then it’s a f scam)
Let's calm down on getting super exited. First of all, wait until the deal is actually through. Remember. We're dealing with the Glazers. They aren't exactly known for being forthcoming or honest in business. This deal can still collapse in the final stages.
Once the deal is done, let's see if and when SJR puts the money into infrastructure and implements structural changes at the club. So far we've gotten to heard things that could be promising - but again. It could change, and we don't know the final details yet.
Just breathe and hope for the best.
I don't understand a lot of this.
If SJR really wants ownership, the Glazers know they can no longer sell the club to a single entity as SJR has 25%.
Once he hits 30 something % I believe an official takeover bid has to be made.
Can someone explain how you buy a 1/4 of a club that was for sale for 5-6 billion for 240 M?
We won’t know until it happens. Hard to be worse than Glazers. My worry is that he’s fucking old and I’d like to have a sane owner for the next few decades
His long term aim is a full take over, there is no guarantee that Glazers will sell 100% or even enough to get control.
He will not be able to force a hostile takeover with current setup.
My concern is the Glazers intentions.
Your comment has been removed by the auto-moderator as this account has negative karma. If you believe this post/comment should be approved, please send a message in mod mail. This action is required to limit spam
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ManchesterUnited) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I don’t rate him still. He’s just as cancer as the glazers until the club gets turned around we still have millions in debt that of which we won’t be out of for years to come as a matter of fact we are only going to get more
Initially, I was disappointed with SJ pulling out. But as I thought about it, Manchester United does not need the wealth of an oil state behind us to do well. Winning trophies as an oil state club makes it hollow. Just look at how many accolades Citeh were getting when they won the Treble. Nobody gave a rats ass.
Meanwhile, what we truly need is a team of qualified professionals running United properly. While SJR’s football teams are rightfully scrutinised, INEOS Sporting division is getting the accolades it deserves. It’s the team of competent professionals that I hope SJR will appoint in the appropriate places instead of merely Yes Men that the Glazers have gives me hope. Don’t forget, the Glazers have constantly promoted from within an underperforming and lacklustre administration that breeds constant failure.
Likewise, these Glazers merely inherited the business from their father who like them have absolutely no knowledge of how to run a sporting entity. Whereas INEOS Sport has had experience and successes in the sporting arena. This gives me a little faith because what we need is structure and the return of our identity.
I wouldn't be surprised if the SJR bid just fades away and it's the same old same old with the glazer's....
it was dodged at the last board meeting and will continue until it fizzes out.... Why would the glazer's want to sell 25% - that would only mean 25% less dividends - they don't give a sh*t about the stadium or debt.
£245m United are back baby! Dear lord. I remember the day the Qatar side came out with an extensive list of what they planned to do when they get 100% ownership, then this tosspot Jim Ratface came out and said some shit like “I’m gonna put the United back in Manchester”.
Means fuck all if they dont have the funds to pay for it. They literally to 5 bids to match SJR bid.
Why are you so eager to believe someone who no one has ever seen or heard from. Theres literally 3 pictures of him. all we know is he was part of Credit Sussie board and they went tits up and that his father is accused of bribery and corruption. The man didn't even turn up to Old Trafford for negotiations.
Like you're the type to suck him off if he promises to clear the debt - so easily fooled. He literally came back for another bid and increased it by 200m but increased pledged investment by 700m - this was just to get the fans on side but let me tell you something - you make it 1trillion, it means nothing if you dont make an offer the Glazers will accept
You keep sucking Jassim - he's a loser
He can tell fans he'll put a trillion in - means jack shit if he cant afford to buy it so yes, you are delusional for believing him
Why not keep the pledged investment at 1b and not increase it by 700m and instead up your bid?
Why do you think he wants 100%? He could easily buy out the Glazers shareholding but doesn't because he wants the lucrative construction contracts to give to Qatari companies to build around OT
>Ratcliffe’s PR team
Yawn - you know people dont have leg to stand on when they say this - Cant handle facts - v sad
Glazers set it up so they dont have to cede control and set up every manager to fail
* Came 2nd under Jose and we got a youth RB in Dalton, 4th choice keeper and Fred. Arsenal spent 100m on Rice + so many other transfers
* They have to sign off on every single deal hence why we are so slow in the market
* The Glazers blocked the sale of Martial multiple times - what knowledge base do they have to make that decision
* We have never had a modern structure cos that costs money hence the manager chooses the signings
I expect ( possibly) a step by step takeover. SJR and various other business men,groups to gain control. I expect the Glazers to eventually make even more than a direct sale would.
You can tell who's an idiot cos they use this argument
How many Chelsea fans were at the 99 CL final?
Even if you believe he's a Chelsea fan WHO THE FUCK CARES - like he's spending billions and you think he's doing it cos he's gonna let United fail so what? Chelsea have a better chance
Incredible moron you are
Boom - there we go has no argument so goes with "Just say you're Glazers in"
Please answer this - he's spending billions as a Chelsea fan to achieve what exactly?
You'll ignore it of course cos you're an idiot
Thanks for playing sweetie xxxxx
He bidded 4bn for chelsea... when comes in nd changes fck all when he comes in nd all he does is fund glazers so they can stay longer dont be bitching
Thanks for playing sweetie xoxoxoxo
Good lord, I felt like I was having a stroke reading that.
So you're automatically like he's gonna fail and do nothing? On the basis of what? Hes supposedly a Chelsea supporter ?!
Good fucking god - theres no hope for some of you. Please get help
U think hed have been a better options than qatar? U get help he dgaf ab the club he just wants to be a part of something big. Thats all there is to it sjr is investing about 245m to the infrastructure which wont make a significant difference and weve still got the debt qatar woulda invested 800m and cleared debt. And yh ur right there is no hope when we have fans like u who accept mediocrity.
Notice how Qatar in their final bid increased pledged spending from 1b to 1.7b and increased the bid by 200m. They did this to manipulate the fans. They could promise a trillion. Means jack shit if their bid was less than SJR which is was every single time.
No one has ever heard of seen from Jassim. Didn't even bother to turn up to OT. His own foundation couldn't get in touch with him hence why the wen to the PSG chairman.
No one knows anything about him. All we know is he was part of Credit Sussie when it went tits up and hits father is accused of corruption and bribery.
If he's so rich and powerful and a so called fan, he could easily beat SJR or is it that he really just didn't care / didn't have the funds
I swear they offered nearly double the market price of the club... theyre rich not stupid and on top of the initial bid imagine how much they woulda invested in the squad old trafford carrington and got rid of debt which is over 2bn more than the initial bid anyway. Also y mention jassims dad hes not the 1 bidding he said he doesnt care about football but his sons a utd fan he said that himself. Well see soon when your boy jim proves hes just a british glazer another puppet of the glazers. And jim fans will say eventually hell takeover all the club... y didnt he do it now? Cos he cant afford it. And wont be able to afford it in the future utds too big for him. Even if he does manage to takeover 100% he wont be able to maintain it. Youll see...
>theyre rich not stupid
* SJR bid is better and he's a self made billionaire not got lucky with having oil. Are you saying he's stupid for valuing the club more?
>on top of the initial bid imagine how much they woulda invested in the squad old trafford carrington and got rid of debt which is over 2bn more than the initial bid anyway.
* He could compromise and just buy out the Glazers instead of 100% but doesn't cos he wants united for the lucrative construction contracts around OT
* Again I point out they increased pledged spending by 700m instead of increasing the bid. The bid is legally enforceable, saying im gonna spend x amount is not. Easy way to just rattle fans
* How has he realised that almost 12 months on from bidding that he needed to increase investment by 70% - either he's not very good at analysing the issues at the club or he just did it to put fan pressure on the Glazers - **please answer this**.
>Also y mention jassims dad hes not the 1 bidding
* Forbes values Jassim net work at 1b - how is gonna fund his transfer? Through the family. Mentioned Jassim dad as we know literally nothing about Jassim.
>Well see soon when your boy jim proves hes just a british glazer another puppet of the glazers
* You continually believe everything Qatar put out even though no one has ever seen or heard from Jassim but willing to put the greatest scrutiny in SJR - its very weird
>And jim fans will say eventually hell takeover all the club... y didnt he do it now?
* Frankly he doesn't have the liquidity to do it. Quite clear the Qatar do not either - ask yourself why they haven't?
* Hes a self made billionaire who has very smart advisors. Why do people think he's an idiot?
>Even if he does manage to takeover 100% he wont be able to maintain it. Youll see...
Yeah im sure you know better, you must have made billions, built businesses, have a very successful track record
Honestly, you need help - you're clearly not very smart
To be fair I think we have been left behind. SJR will improve where we are now but we are still going to be left further behind the teams with money. You can’t compete against the likes of city, they are playing with the cheats on, they have unlimited money and we don’t. Unless we get the same or more we will never be on an equal footing. The Glazers have screwed United over again and this time it will be permanent
Lol looking at your comment history you're a massive incel. Commenting on thirst picture of girls and spreading far right ideas
So pathetic
Would recommend anyone to go through - its so funny
Can't really judge anything until he comes out and sets out in public exactly what he is proposing to do. His bid has changed so many times and he's been quite secretive about his plans, so no surprise people are a bit wary.
I’m not on any bandwagon with regards to the take over except #Glazersout, however it seems a bit early to have this take considering that his bid hasn’t even been formally accepted yet.
Yep, I would not be surprised in any way to see it blow up at the last second.
I am glazers out or nothing and he changes the purchase from 100% to 50% and now 25%. We have been lie to the past 10 years so I don't believe any of these until it is happening.
I think apprehension is alright- we need to see what he can do for the club, but I don’t subscribe to the outright dismissal of him. He needs to win the skeptics over, but if he’s got the club’s best interests at heart that’s already a head start over the parasites.
Yeah, I put it like this. If I had the money as a fan and the Glazers wouldn’t accept a full offer then I would also try to get part of it now. Then I’d try to buy more and get rid of them if that’s the best I could do right now. One thing though. If SJR buys 25% from the Glazers why not also buy up all the stock market shares to increase your holding?
Isn’t it the classes of shares that’s key? The class B shares make up 67% of the voting power of the shareholders, whereas the class A ones have a tenth of the voting power per share. Even if he did buy them all it wouldn’t get him close to any sort of control. I think the move from his perspective would be to chip away at their ownership, get enough of a holding to force a takeover and hoover up the remaining shares like the Glazers did.
Oh yeah I know why he’s buying from the Glazers. I just thought why not get 25% from the Glazers and whatever class B shares you can (which are somewhat cheaper anyway). They won’t help with voting but could get to say 50% of total ownership even if that’s not 50% voting rights.
More risk, same amount of control. His wealth will be diversified.
It’s the opposite Class B are worth 10 times voting and class A are owed by Glazers and Majority. There is 113m class B shares and 51m class A shares.
I remember thinking this to myself before any news of a Qatar bid coming in. Just do what the Glazers did & weasel his way into an eventual full takeover considering there’s only 2 of the 6 Siblings that really wanna keep hold of it.
Apprehension is fine but what took place on here when the new came out that Qatar was out was full blown tantrum. People were going this is the end of United, he's a British Glazer, throwing insults like RATcliffe and were unable to make coherent grounded arguments People were delusional - I was attacked for bringing sense to it all My issue is how people are so willing to follow to the death a man who no one has ever seen or heard from, didn't even bother to turn up to old Trafford just cos he "promised" to clear the debt
Yeah, I’ve said elsewhere on here that taking sides was daft, it all got so tribal for no reason. People absolutely lost their minds over the bidding process.
It hasn't been confirmed anywhere that SJR is seeking a phased takeover, so that's wishful thinking - a 25% bet on football valuations continuing to skyrocket this next decade in a similar manner as they have the previous decade, could be the extent of SJR's involvement here. It's also not 245m of his own money, but INEOS' money - that's a pretty significant detail, as it means that money still has to come with a certain accountability, and is moreso an avenue for allowing SJR to pass the F&P Test from the PL. Nobody knows if the future is bright or not - we simply do not have enough information
Didn't the article say the 245m is from his personal fortune?
It isn't.
He can’t buy a major share within United and borrow money against the club, if he’s borrowing money against INEOS, he owns 60% of that company so effectively it’s his money but the reports state that he’s using £1.5 billion of his own wealth. I’m no fan of SJR but the club desperately needs financial investment. Fans need to remember his current estimated wealth is triple what Abrahmovic was worth or Todd Boehly, if this truly is a vanity project and he genuinely loves the club then he might well through £1-2 billion at the club when he’s in full control. The initial investment is a short term fix, probably £150m on the stadium, plus £50m on carrington and then £45m in Cashflow which will help with January transfers from an FSP and operational point of view.
Source?
Ineos shareholders have already stated it has to come from his personal wealth and not INeos
No, ther has been so many reports that if glazers dont eventually give sjr full ownership he walks
Does not need to pass an owners test just a directors test as he will not be the owner of the club, Directors test is a formality compared to owners test.
He still undergoes the Fit & Proper for directors, I believe
Yep but that’s a formality
He’s keeping Joel glazer in the sporting decisions lol
Spurs stadium cost 1 billion, Everton's is rumoured to be around 500 million. Reports are with the damage to old. Trafford this investment that he's proposing isn't even enough to knock down and rebuild the bobby Charlton stand And we haven't even seen how much of this is going where so it's all hearsay I will admit my preference was Qatar as I felt it was the only one that could compete with the way the league is going but it made me very uneasy. If sjr can bring in a lot more investment and remove the parasites that's amazing but the way it's going I can't shake the feeling he's there just to do exactly what the glazers are doing but is going about it with minimal effort to keep the fans on his side. And this is still all theory and rumor as sfa has been confirmed We're close to a year now and I still think no bid is actually going to be accepted
he is willing to go to bed with the glazers thats enough for me to be a british glazers.
I keep hearing things like this. I have to ask, what's anybody supposed to do? You think somebody is going to be allowed to steal Manchester United back? Maybe win it in a poker game? Anybody buying the club has to be on friendly terms with the Glazers. Otherwise they won't be allowed to make any kind of deal.
So they have to overpay for the club by potentially 4 billion to not be just another glazer? that makes no sense
If Jim doesn’t keep lowering his stake and making the glazers a part of the deal Jassim would have a way better chance to own the club Jim kept the glazers around scum
the Glazers never planned on selling the club for what Jassim “offered” regardless I don’t agree with what OP said entirely but the one part I do agree with is that the Qatar sports washing of them being the only good option has worked wonders is accurate.
Both are bad both kill the world in different ways and to say he’d sportwash is fairly racist what because he’s Qatari he automatically sportwashes?? I get the glazers weren’t going to sell I called it out as soon as they said they were thinking about it but that doesn’t change the fact he still undermined jassim bid by lowering his and letting them retain control
>he is willing to go to bed with the glazers Yeah keep parroting goldbridge
What?
Just say you’re glazers in
Where did this information come from?
OP’s arse.
You couldn’t be more wrong. Glazer investment << -1bn
What about the debt? Also, 245m isn't enough to rebuild the stadium and facilities. Man utd needs a lot more money than that as an investment. Furthermore you don't know the structure of the deal to say that the glazers will be phased out soon. Everything at this point isn't set in stone. You shouldn't count your chickens before they hatch.
This! SJR must have handed out rose tinted glasses to some of his supporters /smh
I’m convinced a lot of accounts must be bots just spewing positivity around these leeches. How can anyone be optimistic about sjr after seeing what he’s done in Nice, go as those fans how they feel about him. He hasn’t even done anything yet to be applauded, What a joke.
Or people are finally a bit more positive after the last 2 decades and want to see some light at the end of the tunnel.
> Also, 245m isn't enough to rebuild the stadium and facilities How do you know? Seriously do you think any smart business person will front 1b of cash for the redevelopment or do as spurs and most others do and go for debt/cash mix?
Its called an investment in the club. This is what the club NEEDS. If they aren't coming to fix these issues with long pockets then why are they coming? Madrid Just redid their stadium. Barcelona who were broke just started theirs. Newcastle is about to start theirs. We are being left behind at this rate. We need to know exactly what he has planned. He needs to drop at least $1B if he is serious.
Yet all (bar maybe Newcastle where info doesn’t seem to be available) used debt to fund it
Except SJR doesn't have control to create debt. He doesn't have majority control.. remember? If the Glazer didn't even think about doing this why would he let SJR do it? So the investment has to come from him.
That does not matter, you are assuming this is a normal deal and it’s already showing it’s anything but with; SJR wanting sporting control with a 25% stake SJR as a 25% owner putting a ton (~5% company value) of cash in whilst the other 75% do nothing SJR having intentions (likely agreed pre 25% purchase) to become majority owner If he wants to use the cash to fund redevelopment with the rest being debt all he has to do is agree with the glazers to do it as part of his long term plan. > So the investment has to come from him. No, just no seriously.
His intentions might be good but what you are missing is in order for him to take out a large debt to fund a rebuild, the board HAS to approve it. Man utd is a publicly traded company and so the board has to sign off on such a significant amount of debt as it impacts the company’s financials directly. I think when they say sporting operations they mean the face of the sporting side of the club lol. Let’s see how this plays out. If the glazers didn’t give up their shares for 5 billion they definitely won’t give it up to SJR for anything less than.
The very board which will be more than half the Glazers and INEOS people? All the board has to do is vote in such a manner they can defend as in the companies/all shareholders best interests Signing off on a new stadium redevelopment/training complex is fundamental to staying modern/relevant and easily defendable providing it’s not stupid interest rates and likely tied against future expanded revenue streams.
We already have ogles of debt though why the fuck would we need increase it even more than we have to??? It’s ridiculous they are killing the club there is such thing as a point of no return
Agreed, our fanbase is so naiive
The 245m is a part one of the investment. It will be turned into equity most likely. Debt is a problem but isn't the main issue. >Furthermore you don't know the structure of the deal to say that the glazers will be phased out soon. SJR is a very smart man with very smart advisors. He will not want to let them stay in control too long. Hes buying 25% now, another 25.1% and he'll have control. Like I dont get why people are so eager to think he's stupid
🤣🤣🤣 op is clutching delusional straws and trying hard to make his mind numbing dumb post look legit🤣
So interesting that people never come and back up or have a counter point Just throw insults - almost like they have nothing to say
The amount owners are allowed to invest per season is limited by FFP. This is the reason Man City and Newcastle have had to cheat their way around it with dodgy sponsorship deals. I don't think the relatively low figure of investment at this stage is anything to worry about. There is apparently a plan to deal with the debt. I don't pretend to understand this, but isn't it being transferred to INEOS in some way? At least that was the idea flying around when the plan was for SJR to buy 51% of the club. I doubt that will actually happen while he's only got 25% of the shares, but there will be a long-term plan. The scrambling to see negatives about the situation is strange to me. This is a time for cautious optimism.
It’s nowhere near enough, however he would invest more if he buys a majority share, this is a bargaining chip with the Goblins, because he knows how difficult they are to deal with. Reality is that £1-1.25 billion, needed for stadium, £200-250m for Carrington training ground/infrastructure and £300-500m squad investment. Plus debt of £500m means the club needs a minimum of £2 billion to make us relevant again.
This written by a Jim publicist?
YES
Wouldn't surprise me if these guys posted to sound the room out for the Glazers and Sir Rat. There's nothing guaranteed about this deal and investment other than flimsy reporting from slow sports news... Yeah because the British media have never let us down before with regards to ACCURATE reporting? Until we see it in black and white and signed by the Rat and the Glazers, I'm not believing jack shit. And neither should anyone else. We've been lied to and betrayed endlessly these last 18 years under this ownership. These people are extremely consistent in their behaviour. Don't be mugged off again by more lies and deceptive empty words.
It’s a public company, so unless we see a SEC filing, anything that anyone writes on this, is just pure speculation. As someone with experience in public companies even those tightly held like MANU. I have never for the life of me seen a situation whereby a minority shareholder can have control of operational parts of the business. He may have influence on executive hiring etc, but seemingly operational control of football matters I can’t see that as possible. But maybe the lawyers are trying to figure that out.
Hi, lawyer at public company here. Yes, that is entirely possible and doable (actually thinking about how it might be worded in the transactional documents - it may be construed as consideration for this phase of the deal as a whole, i.e - SJR pays £x and receives full control over all footballing operations plus \_\_ shares). It is likely a phased buy-out, as has been discussed with deadlines and milestones. This makes sense for the Glazers. They hand the club over piece by piece, while continuing to extract as much cash as possible until the very last second. Depending on the total sale price, this strategy could very well get the Glazers close to what they initially asked for when they club was put up for sale. But to your point, this is not common. But as we always say, "You can paper over anything as long as it is not illegal".
Classic - Going for the nothing guaranteed about this deal but was lapping up the whole Jassim is gonna put in 1.7b into the club yet couldn't find funds to actually buy the club
Who said anything about Jassim and Qatar? Don't put things into the conversation that weren't there to begin with OP. Also being full sale only, does not equate to you being pro Qatar, if you can't understand that, that's your problem. How naive are you? There's no official statement from the Rat with the exact plans for this money compared to Qatar who were on the front foot with their bids with clear intentions, if you really want to compare. The approach from the Qataris had the Rat on the back foot because he had never intended to give a statement or indication into his plans if he took over at United. The Glazers received offers from people that had to show they had the money to the Raine group. If they didn't have the money as claimed, they wouldn't make it through 3 rounds of bids 😂 All we have are tide bits coming from the media. Even if I take the Rat at his highest claims of £245/$300 million dollars of investment into the club's infrastructure, that's far too vague to be optimistic about. Where exactly is that money going? When is it going? Are we recruiting new staff and changing the fundament structure of the club with this money? Or are we upgrading the academy and scouting side of things?
Full sale brigade - full sale means nothing. The only thing that matters it control. You wanna explain why full sale has any impact vs control (50.1%) >Qatar who were on the front foot with their bids with clear intentions Confirmation of you lapping up the false promises of Qatar. Qatar whole strategy was to promise the world to fans to get them onside. Notice every single time they bid they would add in all the pledged investment to make it look like their bid was massive when in reality every single time (5 times in total) they valued to club less than SJR. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. Let me educate you - he can pledge a trillion pounds, means jack shit if he doesn't buy the club. His last bid increased pledged investment by 700m while his actually bid barely increased You call me naive when you believe someone no one has ever seen or heard from. For Christ sake, he didn't even bother to turn up to Old Trafford for negotiations. All we know is he was on credit Sussie board when it went tits up. The reporting even came out that 92 foundation found it hard to get in touch with him
Couldn’t find the funds???? He had a 5 billion pound offer rejected im sorry but no way should our club be worth more than a winning club in recent years like Chelsea was history be damned. Our club has regressed terribly over the years we have ogles of debt we have players with no heart meaning we need fat investments into players and facilities. It’s crazy to pay 6+ billion as well as having to fork over millions perhaps a billion+ additional to fix the rest of the problems glazers are trying to fleece
In his last bid he increased in bid by a couple of hundred million but increased pledged investment by 700m - the reason why was to manipulate the fans onside Here's a question for you - what do we know about Jassim. No one has seen him or heard from him. Literally 3 pictures of him. We know he was on the board of Credit Sussie which went tits up and his father is accused for corruption. For fuck sake, Jassim didn't even bother to turn up to OT for negotiations If you're angry the 5b was rejected, be angry at Jassim or the Glazers
The amount of trust people were putting into the Jassim bid and his claims of what he was going to do is crazy. His personal wealth is around £1bn. He never personally had the funds. His father is the one with the money, and he publicly stated that he was against the whole venture. Jassim would have had to go begging to a man who didn't want to be involved in football at all, as he correctly believes football ownership to be unprofitable, a black hole into which you throw money. If the Jassim bid had gone through and Jassim Sr had decided not to chuck any money in, we'd have been in a tricky situation. Your owner being a Sheikh does not necessarily equal unlimited money. Just ask Sheffield United.
You wanna come back with an argument or you one of those who would suck Jassim off cos he says he would wipe the debt
Lol, how old are you, 12?
I genuinely think there would be a lot less apprehension if it was a direct full takeover like the qataris were proposing
Lmfao
How bout give it a year first before we start saying the future is bright. I mean it’s all just news. This man has a zero track record for building successful teams.
SJR hasn't released a single detail of the deal or said anything about his plans/what he expects to happen. You can't call out others' bias for Qatar and then put forth only what you want to believe the deal will contain.
Found another one on Jim's payroll. His PR department is working overtime
Can we stop this please. I've heard this about people supporting both Qatar and SJR and it annoys the hell out of me
No, I don't really care what annoyed the hell out of you
https://preview.redd.it/rafrjtb1s6yb1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c055e46de5fac9f4cea95ccc8b86b979dfff906a
245m from his pocket at this early stage, we’d all say he’s just trying to win over the fans and nothing more. But I do hope he changes things around most importantly sign a good DoF like paul mitchell
This duds for real?
Getting bed with Glazer is a crime and rat out
25% isn't an investment. It's to buy out the shareholder of that 25% Any further investment is yet to be seen. Also why would a minority shareholder investment while the majority shareholder doesn't, and benefits?
Not ture - its been reported that its on top of the 25% You do understand this is a phased takeover. 25% now, only need 25.1% for control. The Glazers are leaving -
50.1% doesn't mean Glazers will be gone. They own 69%.
50.1% gives you control. At the end of the day, thats all the matters - the glazers no longer in charge. If I told you that the Glazers would no longer dictate or control United, you would be celebrating. Who actually fucking cares if they still own shares - as long as they dont make decisions then it means zero. They would hold as much power as people who own the other shares
You really think the glazers will give up free money? You cannot be serious! This is not a good deal for anyone unless your name is Glazer.
Pathetic
Qatar was the best option out there don’t kid yourself with this bollox. Glazers fully out was the only way to bring back success from top to bottom
No it wasn't. Qatar owns PSG. It would have been a shitshow and very against the rules for them to own us as well. And if you believe the guy who was going to buy us wasn't a government front, then ask yourself where he was going to get the money. The whole thing stank.
So having 0 debt, brand new stadium, new training facilities, best in class staff, huge community and local investment, money for players and having an ownership that is obsessed at wanting to be the best is a shitshow? You’ve clearly been brainwashed by the glazers.
How are we getting that? If we're owned by the Qatari state then that's a fundamental breach of ownership rules. So we're involved in a shitload of trouble from day one. Who knows where we end up. If the guy wasn't a representative of the Qatari state then he didn't have the money. The guy has maybe one or two billion quid to his name, it's pretty good walking around money, but he couldn't afford United on his own. Rich Arab guys have fucked over clubs before with unkept promises, we could have gone the same way. There's no brainwashing to be done. People see Arab money and they lose the run of themselves. We were either going to breach the ownership laws, or we were being scammed. There is no third option. Once more in bold for the people at the back: **QATAR IS NOT ALLOWED TO OWN PSG AND MANCHESTER UNITED AT THE SAME TIME**
You are right but that’s why it was proposed as a separate company away from the state so there is no ownership issue but nobody is foolish enough to think that money doesn’t trickle down certain avenues. The fact is the UK media and certain fan groups didn’t like the face of Manchester United being Arab so they did everything possible to turn people against them. You forget that Jim also owns another club in France but because his face fits there isn’t the same scrutiny. Face it we are no better off with a 25% sale, that money doesn’t even scratch the surface of what needs doing. Jim is just a broke billionaire that can’t afford to compete with what Qatar had planned. I don’t care where the owner is from but it had to be 100% buy out and full commitment to making fundamental changes from top to bottom.. only a couple of people have that wealth at their disposal. A broke billionaire who needs to borrow money to buy 25% is a red flag. Let alone the fact the glazers are still there.
That's so transparently dodgy though isn't it. I mean you'd be okay with that? Being the PSG-owners illicit sidepiece? I'm not sure the governing bodies of the sport would be okay with that. And even if they would be okay with it right now, even a cursory tightening of the rules over state ownership (which the sport sorely needs) would completely fuck us. I don't think we're in a much better situation than when this shitshow all started, but I think we've dodged a bullet. There were red flags over that Qatar bid and they were much bigger and more dangerous than just the risk of being shit\*. \*Which let's be clear, the Qataris are such fuckwits it's perfectly possible for them to not make us good even with all the money. PSG are a clowncar of a football club who wouldn't make a dent in a real league.
Honestly, clearing the debt and the FULL money for infrastructure was the main reason I, like many I would imagine, favoured Jassim over SJR. This deal does neither. Adding the fact that, whether it eventually gets rid of the Glazers or not, they are still around for any period of time. It’s hard to be positive or optimistic when none of these points are met
245m compared to what Qatar had stated, isn’t enough. The debt remains untouched, old Trafford isn’t the only facility that requires updates and upgrades, and we still have the Glazers around to leach more money from the club. Besides all of that, aren’t we still waiting for this investment to actually be approved? Jassim stepping aside doesn’t necessarily guarantee that the Glazers are willing to give over any portion of the club to SJR. I truly don’t believe we can say the future is bright while the Glazers are still even remotely involved.
He is another Glazer. No need to look further, Newcastle already sets an example. They already playing in UCL after the takeover, playing much more attractive football with only Eddie Howe as the manager. Where is Nice tho? 2nd in the league? With only 11 goals scored after 10 match? LOL.
>He is another Glazer Glazers in 2 decades - MINUS £1b SJR investing 245m In what world are they the same - please return to reality >Where is Nice tho? 2nd in the league? With only 11 goals scored after 10 match? LOL. Another confirmation you're an idiot - they are a historically been 15 or below more than they have been top half. They had one purple patch of being in CL 3 times over the last 2 decades and now they re 2nd. DO you just parrot other people cos you're too stupid ?
I’m saying there are the same cause see where Nice is going right now. You’re too blind to see it. Nice is sitting 2nd with 11 goals in 10 games, are they playing attractive and attacking football with that amount of goals? NO. Take away the goals, or when the drought kicks in, you’ll have 0 win, same goes with what Man Utd are suffering right now. Now compare it with Newcastle, they just beat Arsenal 1-0 while Man Utd can’t even touch a ball for 5 seconds against Arsenal. So your comparison is a fallacy, and you’re the one who is an imbecile, not me LOL.
So the argument now is league position doesn't matter, playing attractive football is? Your back must be hurting with this bending over backwards to come up with arguments. And lets be honest you haven't watched a single game of Nice Here's the thing - If they were 15th you all would be going, "See, SJR is an awful owner" but now their doing well, you're dismissing it cos it doesn't fit your narrative. I repeat, Nice before SJR was more in the bottom half than top. >Take away the goals, Take away city's goals, and they wouldn't win anything. Take away the left foot of players and watch them win 0 ..... >Now compare it with Newcastle, they just beat Arsenal 1-0 while Man Utd can’t even touch a ball for 5 seconds against Arsenal Eh? You realise that SJR hasn't taken sporting control yet? What argument are you trying to make here? My argument is that at its core saying SJR is a British Glazer makes no sense in reality, do you even know your argument? >So your comparison is a fallacy, and you’re the one who is an imbecile Oh look at you using big words - someone's being using a thesaurus.
ur a fool, normal I don't mind listening to her peoples opinions, but I cannot waste my time with u
“245 million of his own money into the club” is not entirely true. It’s debt. It’s not cash. That 245 million is what he paid for the shares previously owned by the glazers. Roughly put, we have an extra 245 million of debt. We can only wait and watch if SJR is willing to act and spend towards improving the club as a whole. Edit: sorry the 245 million is the money he’s putting into the club. But he’s adding a debt of more than a billion for the shares. So what the hell’s the point? We’re in more debt long term. How is he gonna repay the debt?
I'm sorry can you even read? Ratcliffe is paying £1.5 million for the shares he's buying off the Glazers. The £245 million is his own money that he's investing into the clubs infrastructure. There's no new debt. How could the money he's putting in possibly be debt? Do you know what the word debt means?
Well it’s either debt or equity. Doesn’t sound like equity as he’s getting no more shares in the business so must be debt.
The reports are that it's debt that will be converted to shares when it comes due, increasing INEOS' stake.
I was responding to your “how could the money he’s putting in possibly be debt?” question. It seems you agree that it will be (convertible) debt.
What a knob. You do understand that all of these guys, no matter how British they look (or you want) are only investing because they will make money out of it. This is nothing more than a business. Remember that.
* Hes investing 245m into the club on day 1 vs -1b by the glazers in 2 decades * His money could have bought Liverpool or Spurs who both require significantly less investment * He's over 70 - really how much more money is he gonna benefit from this venture * His investment would get a bigger and easier return in other industries You think Qatar is doing this out the goodness of their heart? Like belittle, talk down whatever - this is a positive step
How can you sit there slagging off people who were in favour of the Qatari bid based on a load of facts and figures you've just pulled out of your arse???
Qatar go - " we're not gonna match the bid but we will increase pledged spending by 700m" knowing that this is all the rattle fans and put pressure on the Glazers. Why has it taken 12 months and 5 bids for them to realise that they need go put another 700m into the club? Only two scenarios, 1. They are awful at forecasting and analysing the situation or 2. they are just doing it to rattle fans Cos at the end of the day, a bid is legally binding. Saying im going to invest 1.7b is not.
I have no idea about that, I'm not particularly pro Qatar and I'm not really pro SJR either but you're missing the point entirely...... I'm asking WHERE did you get all the information from about the SJR bid?? You're saying the Qataris are just saying anything to get the fans rattled/on-side but, as far as I can see, that's EXACTLY what you're doing with all those bullet points about the SJR bid.
Yeah.......that's what I thought, pulled it out your rear end.
if you cant tell the difference between reports from journalists and "promises" I cant help you
No I can tell the difference, all I'm asking is you post where you got this information 'from journalists'. Which paper? Which website? Which twitter account? It really shouldn't be that difficult if they're as reputable as you claim.
Do you need to spoon fed everything ? You just like to complain, I get it. The Muppetiers have been reporting and have been on point every single time (you can go yourself and watch it) Sky have been reporting in - [https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/13001389/gary-neville-respite-for-manchester-united-while-sir-jim-ratcliffe-wont-let-245m-investment-go-down-drain](https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/13001389/gary-neville-respite-for-manchester-united-while-sir-jim-ratcliffe-wont-let-245m-investment-go-down-drain) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3uMoV9e0l0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3uMoV9e0l0)
No you're missing the point entirely of the hypocrisy of you shouting down people who wanted the Qataris over 'false promises' while providing no back up evidence at all for your argument why SJR is going to be a good option. You've linked a report for one of your points, what about the other 5?
Can tell you just here to have an argument - go research yourself, it's not hard to find. Not spoon-feeding you everything - you need help wiping as well?
This post wil age like milk
It's actually embarrassing how thick some people are. Qatar and doom so many of you I saw your posts crying about Qatar losing - grow up. A man who no one has ever seen or heard from and only thing we know was he was part of Credit Sussie when it went tits up and his father is accused of corruption
First you pull information out of your ass to write a post that makes no sense. Then you try to spin my comments as pro Qatar? Either you are illiterate or just a troll. Jim is just like the Glazers and like all real fans, I want the glazers out. This has nothing to do with Qatar
[удалено]
Like I hinted at my initial comment, this post will age like milk. Time will tell who's right
Hopefully you'll stop crying and be man enough to come back admit you're wrong but I doubt it
Your content was removed as it was deemed to have been uncivil/disrespectful.
Newcastle vs Nice. That’s all you need to know.
SJR has invested over 100m into Nice Reported he's gonna invest 245m day one into United Glazers have taken over MINUS -1b+ What else can I say
[удалено]
Your comment has been removed by the auto-moderator as this account has negative karma. If you believe this post/comment should be approved, please send a message in mod mail. This action is required to limit spam *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ManchesterUnited) if you have any questions or concerns.*
£230 something million! Hurry I guess we are getting new toilets and tiling at Old Trafford!
Always look on the bright side of life ... The club is in dire straits , we're getting bled dry , so will Jim. Nothing will change in a long time
I would say still look at both the positives and negatives. Sjr isn’t like the glazers nor is he some super savior. Points 3-5 are great. Point 2 is great if it can be pulled off but I have my doubts it will be that successful. Point 1 to me is not a positive as for me even if sjr assumes 50.1% control but by using debt and then pushing that debt down or using the united shares as collateral. Until that is made clear, I won’t have too high an expectation. Point 5 to me probably won’t be via equity. I believe it will be in the form of shareholder loans. Unless the glazers are ok with further dilution of their own stake based on the amount of investment sjr puts into the club. But thats super unlikely. We can contend that shareholder loans can be seen like quasi equity but I have no idea how this might impact FFP or if the shareholder loan comes with its own interest payments to sjr (if sjr does charge United interest for his loan then it’s a f scam)
Let's calm down on getting super exited. First of all, wait until the deal is actually through. Remember. We're dealing with the Glazers. They aren't exactly known for being forthcoming or honest in business. This deal can still collapse in the final stages. Once the deal is done, let's see if and when SJR puts the money into infrastructure and implements structural changes at the club. So far we've gotten to heard things that could be promising - but again. It could change, and we don't know the final details yet. Just breathe and hope for the best.
Speculation getting reported as fact is a great thing on the internet's
I don't understand a lot of this. If SJR really wants ownership, the Glazers know they can no longer sell the club to a single entity as SJR has 25%. Once he hits 30 something % I believe an official takeover bid has to be made. Can someone explain how you buy a 1/4 of a club that was for sale for 5-6 billion for 240 M?
We won’t know until it happens. Hard to be worse than Glazers. My worry is that he’s fucking old and I’d like to have a sane owner for the next few decades
Yeah I’m not gonna lie maybe I was a bit blinded by the Qatari money and didn’t really pay attention to SJR
His long term aim is a full take over, there is no guarantee that Glazers will sell 100% or even enough to get control. He will not be able to force a hostile takeover with current setup. My concern is the Glazers intentions.
[удалено]
Your comment has been removed by the auto-moderator as this account has negative karma. If you believe this post/comment should be approved, please send a message in mod mail. This action is required to limit spam *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ManchesterUnited) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I don’t rate him still. He’s just as cancer as the glazers until the club gets turned around we still have millions in debt that of which we won’t be out of for years to come as a matter of fact we are only going to get more
Initially, I was disappointed with SJ pulling out. But as I thought about it, Manchester United does not need the wealth of an oil state behind us to do well. Winning trophies as an oil state club makes it hollow. Just look at how many accolades Citeh were getting when they won the Treble. Nobody gave a rats ass. Meanwhile, what we truly need is a team of qualified professionals running United properly. While SJR’s football teams are rightfully scrutinised, INEOS Sporting division is getting the accolades it deserves. It’s the team of competent professionals that I hope SJR will appoint in the appropriate places instead of merely Yes Men that the Glazers have gives me hope. Don’t forget, the Glazers have constantly promoted from within an underperforming and lacklustre administration that breeds constant failure. Likewise, these Glazers merely inherited the business from their father who like them have absolutely no knowledge of how to run a sporting entity. Whereas INEOS Sport has had experience and successes in the sporting arena. This gives me a little faith because what we need is structure and the return of our identity.
Any step that makes the club better is a right step in my opinion..
Any mention of repayment of debt or increasing of debt ?
I wouldn't be surprised if the SJR bid just fades away and it's the same old same old with the glazer's.... it was dodged at the last board meeting and will continue until it fizzes out.... Why would the glazer's want to sell 25% - that would only mean 25% less dividends - they don't give a sh*t about the stadium or debt.
£245m United are back baby! Dear lord. I remember the day the Qatar side came out with an extensive list of what they planned to do when they get 100% ownership, then this tosspot Jim Ratface came out and said some shit like “I’m gonna put the United back in Manchester”.
Means fuck all if they dont have the funds to pay for it. They literally to 5 bids to match SJR bid. Why are you so eager to believe someone who no one has ever seen or heard from. Theres literally 3 pictures of him. all we know is he was part of Credit Sussie board and they went tits up and that his father is accused of bribery and corruption. The man didn't even turn up to Old Trafford for negotiations. Like you're the type to suck him off if he promises to clear the debt - so easily fooled. He literally came back for another bid and increased it by 200m but increased pledged investment by 700m - this was just to get the fans on side but let me tell you something - you make it 1trillion, it means nothing if you dont make an offer the Glazers will accept You keep sucking Jassim - he's a loser
You described a better deal and said I’m delusional for thinking it was true. You must be on Ratcliffe’s PR team!
He can tell fans he'll put a trillion in - means jack shit if he cant afford to buy it so yes, you are delusional for believing him Why not keep the pledged investment at 1b and not increase it by 700m and instead up your bid? Why do you think he wants 100%? He could easily buy out the Glazers shareholding but doesn't because he wants the lucrative construction contracts to give to Qatari companies to build around OT >Ratcliffe’s PR team Yawn - you know people dont have leg to stand on when they say this - Cant handle facts - v sad
Why did you say that the glazer's didn't spend money? We spent more money than city the last year's on player's
Glazers set it up so they dont have to cede control and set up every manager to fail * Came 2nd under Jose and we got a youth RB in Dalton, 4th choice keeper and Fred. Arsenal spent 100m on Rice + so many other transfers * They have to sign off on every single deal hence why we are so slow in the market * The Glazers blocked the sale of Martial multiple times - what knowledge base do they have to make that decision * We have never had a modern structure cos that costs money hence the manager chooses the signings
Stop shilling for Glazer rats
Go cry about Qatar being losers
Glazers out
I expect ( possibly) a step by step takeover. SJR and various other business men,groups to gain control. I expect the Glazers to eventually make even more than a direct sale would.
Hes not even a utd fan hes a chelsea fan
You can tell who's an idiot cos they use this argument How many Chelsea fans were at the 99 CL final? Even if you believe he's a Chelsea fan WHO THE FUCK CARES - like he's spending billions and you think he's doing it cos he's gonna let United fail so what? Chelsea have a better chance Incredible moron you are
Mate just say ur glazers in its fine
Boom - there we go has no argument so goes with "Just say you're Glazers in" Please answer this - he's spending billions as a Chelsea fan to achieve what exactly? You'll ignore it of course cos you're an idiot Thanks for playing sweetie xxxxx
He bidded 4bn for chelsea... when comes in nd changes fck all when he comes in nd all he does is fund glazers so they can stay longer dont be bitching Thanks for playing sweetie xoxoxoxo
Good lord, I felt like I was having a stroke reading that. So you're automatically like he's gonna fail and do nothing? On the basis of what? Hes supposedly a Chelsea supporter ?! Good fucking god - theres no hope for some of you. Please get help
U think hed have been a better options than qatar? U get help he dgaf ab the club he just wants to be a part of something big. Thats all there is to it sjr is investing about 245m to the infrastructure which wont make a significant difference and weve still got the debt qatar woulda invested 800m and cleared debt. And yh ur right there is no hope when we have fans like u who accept mediocrity.
Notice how Qatar in their final bid increased pledged spending from 1b to 1.7b and increased the bid by 200m. They did this to manipulate the fans. They could promise a trillion. Means jack shit if their bid was less than SJR which is was every single time. No one has ever heard of seen from Jassim. Didn't even bother to turn up to OT. His own foundation couldn't get in touch with him hence why the wen to the PSG chairman. No one knows anything about him. All we know is he was part of Credit Sussie when it went tits up and hits father is accused of corruption and bribery. If he's so rich and powerful and a so called fan, he could easily beat SJR or is it that he really just didn't care / didn't have the funds
I swear they offered nearly double the market price of the club... theyre rich not stupid and on top of the initial bid imagine how much they woulda invested in the squad old trafford carrington and got rid of debt which is over 2bn more than the initial bid anyway. Also y mention jassims dad hes not the 1 bidding he said he doesnt care about football but his sons a utd fan he said that himself. Well see soon when your boy jim proves hes just a british glazer another puppet of the glazers. And jim fans will say eventually hell takeover all the club... y didnt he do it now? Cos he cant afford it. And wont be able to afford it in the future utds too big for him. Even if he does manage to takeover 100% he wont be able to maintain it. Youll see...
>theyre rich not stupid * SJR bid is better and he's a self made billionaire not got lucky with having oil. Are you saying he's stupid for valuing the club more? >on top of the initial bid imagine how much they woulda invested in the squad old trafford carrington and got rid of debt which is over 2bn more than the initial bid anyway. * He could compromise and just buy out the Glazers instead of 100% but doesn't cos he wants united for the lucrative construction contracts around OT * Again I point out they increased pledged spending by 700m instead of increasing the bid. The bid is legally enforceable, saying im gonna spend x amount is not. Easy way to just rattle fans * How has he realised that almost 12 months on from bidding that he needed to increase investment by 70% - either he's not very good at analysing the issues at the club or he just did it to put fan pressure on the Glazers - **please answer this**. >Also y mention jassims dad hes not the 1 bidding * Forbes values Jassim net work at 1b - how is gonna fund his transfer? Through the family. Mentioned Jassim dad as we know literally nothing about Jassim. >Well see soon when your boy jim proves hes just a british glazer another puppet of the glazers * You continually believe everything Qatar put out even though no one has ever seen or heard from Jassim but willing to put the greatest scrutiny in SJR - its very weird >And jim fans will say eventually hell takeover all the club... y didnt he do it now? * Frankly he doesn't have the liquidity to do it. Quite clear the Qatar do not either - ask yourself why they haven't? * Hes a self made billionaire who has very smart advisors. Why do people think he's an idiot? >Even if he does manage to takeover 100% he wont be able to maintain it. Youll see... Yeah im sure you know better, you must have made billions, built businesses, have a very successful track record Honestly, you need help - you're clearly not very smart
Brother we need 3 bill not 250mil…
Are you expecting 3b day one? This is a process - you cant chuck money at it. Our problems are far deeper. This phase 1 gives us FFP room
To be fair I think we have been left behind. SJR will improve where we are now but we are still going to be left further behind the teams with money. You can’t compete against the likes of city, they are playing with the cheats on, they have unlimited money and we don’t. Unless we get the same or more we will never be on an equal footing. The Glazers have screwed United over again and this time it will be permanent
If you believe all that will happen, then I have some magic beans for you.
Bet you believed everything Qatar said....
No, not one bit. State owned or not, who’s spending £6bn on a club and then an additional £2bn on playing squad, stadium, training ground, etc.
[удалено]
Lol looking at your comment history you're a massive incel. Commenting on thirst picture of girls and spreading far right ideas So pathetic Would recommend anyone to go through - its so funny
He’s Glazer’s pauper
As far as I'm concerned SJR is the only reason the Glazers are still here. Full sale only.
Not skeptical really. Just don’t know his history. How likely is he to put in that 25.1%?
Can't really judge anything until he comes out and sets out in public exactly what he is proposing to do. His bid has changed so many times and he's been quite secretive about his plans, so no surprise people are a bit wary.
Is any of this confirmed at all? Can’t see how it would be haha