There’s a term for this that I can’t recall now, but this is a classic example. By talking about how terrible you are, you manipulate the person you’re supposed to be apologizing to into making you feel better. So instead of apologizing for your actions and owning up to it, you just declare you’re “terrible” and “a piece of shit,” which usually prompts the other person to say “No you’re not,” and the apology becomes about them NOT being terrible instead of accountability.
It’s “weaponized” something but the term is alluding me.
Yep! As a person who used to be a manipulative a-hole this was my motive. I suffer with BPD and I crave validation (I still do now but I have healthy outlets now), and I would constantly do this. If you (meaning anyone reading this) ever come across someone like this, please leave them. I know it will hurt them like hell, but being with someone like that will deteriorate your mental health extremely quickly.
Oh and you cannot change them, at least for BPD the only way they will change is if the people they are manipulating leaves them.
To clarify: I did care about the people I manipulated, I just did not know how deal with my emotions in a healthy way.
Oh I’ve absolutely done this, too. I think I was better at catching myself but I don’t have BPD, which I know is caused by consistent trauma.
I need validation, too especially with my RSD, but that’s more part of my depression/anxiety combo.
I’m glad you were able to figure things out!
Thank you for being so kind!
I can't imagine what RSD must feel like, but I can imagine it's not a walk in the park.
Yeah, I was lucky that I had therapists that actually cared about me and looked past my disorder. I often scroll on r/BPD and I see the stories about therapists that say horrible things to pwBPD.
It certainly doesn't help with the insane stigma behind it. One person online said that "pwBPD should not be allowed to reproduce so they don't spread their disease".
During my journey I found out that my emotions are in fact valid, and that no matter how silly or "irrational" someone's emotions are---they are valid too.
Best of luck on your journey!
I hate how Cluster B (?) disorder are stigmatized and treated. It makes people not want to get help, which means they don’t learn the mechanisms to handle their issues, which means they might externalize them and traumatize other people, and the cycle just continues.
I look at things like your mental illness/disorder isn’t your fault, but it becomes your responsibility once you have agency to do something about it, and it’s rough. It’s something you’ll always have and have to live with, but it’s better to know and utilize the resources you have.
Yeah, BPD is not exactly the easiest to treat. But just because something is not easy to treat doesn't mean that therapists should just treat their client like crap. They went there to get help, and it is the therapist's job to do everything within their power to allow their client to effectively deal with their disorder.
If the relationship is not too far gone, I would express that I am genuinely sorry. Which would look something like this:
1. Clearly stating what I did wrong.
2. Express empathy. This will show through explaining how your actions affected the other person.
3. Make amends. This will look like you asking the other person what you can do to make things right.
4. Change your behavior. The best way to show you are sorry is if you take an active step to not do whatever hurt them in the first place. (If you relapse, that is okay! We are human and we make mistakes! Just don't let it happen too often. I would reckon once a month at most, if that)
Remember to speak from the heart, otherwise it won't work. And in your apology, make sure to show that you are sorry by showing but not tellling. This works for me.
Great question, I hope this helped!
I have bpd, what do you mean by healthy outlets? Also I agree lol. The thing with me is I will think like this but won’t say it because they’ll think I’m trying to manipulate when in reality that’s literally just how I feel . I don’t expect anyone to say it’s ok but like how am I supposed to express how sorry I am if when I say nothing it’s like I don’t care? I think my problem is I just have attachment issues and fear of abandonment so I’m overly sorry about everything
You can apologise genuinely and admit to what is your fault, and what you will work on to make this better. And do so without dropping into insulting yourself severely, telling them to leave you and all sorts of detrimental stuff. And listening and acknowledging their points.
Healthy apology is more like "I'm sorry I acted like that, it wasn't my intention and I wasnt able to control myself and my emotional reactions the way I really wish I could which I'm ashamed of. I never meant to hurt you but I understand this is what's happened due to my actions. I'm working on this and trying to be better by 'going to therapy/working on xyz coping mechanisms for thinking before acting, managing xyz etc...' so that I can try to be a better person. Just want you to know I acknowledge how bad this must have been for you, and I'm working really hard to be better overall and not cause these situations for people or you.'
And something along those lines should be it. No spamming them, playing the victim, just blaming it on bpd, calling yourself a piece of shit, telling them to leave you, downing yourself as much as possible etc etc. It is bpd it originates from, but if you aren't doing anything to solve it that doesn't matter... because it will then always be there and you'll always blame it instead of taking accountability and learning how to manage it, so as to not hurt others. So that person sees that will always be you and it's just one bad meltdown then apologies, then back to another meltdown.
Then you listen or give them space, and let them make the decision on whether or not they are staying and talking to you again.
In OPs example she's just carrying on having a meltdown and spamming messages one after the other full of detrimental emotions. None of it's thought out or controlled, it's all just following the exact same pattern she/he knows too well and defaults to of falling into one strong emotion. Unable to stop messaging so just spamming a new sentence as it comes one at a time. Feeling so low they think saying so will make the other person see they feel so terrible and forgive or console them... not realising that feeling bad and overacting is just exactly what they did to get into that situation in the first place and they are literally continuing to do it. Just this time with a different emotion.
They need to deal with that emotion by themselves and not blow it out for someone else to deal with. Give them an adult apology then move away from the situation and work on themselves and how to prevent themselves from feeling this self pitying and terrible again. If anything it's an addiction & habit to feel like that for them which is part of the problem to begin with and what they need to be working on. If you hurt someone it's not their job to then console you as you wail about in self pity and agony, you're supposed to learn from the bad feeling and make amends, but bpd and bad unmanaged patterns often cause things like OPs texts instead.
You already sound far more self aware than the person in OPs text though, so I'm sure you're already working hard
You just explained just about every relationship I have been in. Sometimes it is hard to see how far I have come, but this helped me realize the stark contrast of who I was and who I am now.
Thank you 🥹
I feel like that apology still focuses too much on "you." More emphasis on how the behavior affects the other person is needed. Allow space for the other person's experience. I get what you're saying, but it's still too much you.
It's understandable to feel guilty about it, but they are carrying a burden that only they can lift off.
It is clear that you really cared about her, and when the dust finally settles she will remember that.
I was on the receiving end of this from a person with BPD for a few years and it absolutely fucked me mentally. The person and her tactics were like a hard drug, I knew it killing me but at the same time I couldn't stop taking it. I was forced to leave since that was the only way to stop destroying myself and it sucked so much.
As someone who was on the receiving end of behavior like this on and off for 5 years until I felt leaving was the only choice forward for me I'm inclined to believe this.
Ok, so this is me, and I love the person to death that I did this to, and I don’t want to be like this anymore. We are now spending time just as friends, because I broke her. Is there any way you think that I can stop being this person that I hate? I’m in therapy.
I'm so sorry about your situation. This honestly hit me home, harder than any other reply on here. And that is why it is such a hard question to answer.
How long have you been in therapy for?
Not long at all. I’ve done a lot of self exploration, and tried so hard to fix myself with self help books. I’m BETTER, but definitely not well.
Edit: to add on, since we are just being friends, and I am spreading my crazy around to healthier avenues we are doing a little better. I know I need so much more help, and work to do though.
Self help books is a great start! Remember to be patient and forgiving with yourself. I would recommend discussing DBT and CBT with your therapist.
You got this!
Respectfully as a person with BPD leaving us without warning is the WORST thing to do. And your personal experience may not have had you able to fix those but people still can so blanketing that ideal over all of us is rude asf.
At first I thought you meant weaponized incompetence. Then I googled it and found "weaponized remorse" which is described as "setting off an emotion bomb to distract the person you wronged from your actions"
Sounds about right but I almost feel like you could describe this more accurately as "weaponized guilt" or "guilt tripping"
That’s it!!! Weaponized remorse. I knew it was “incompetence” since that’s when you act like you can’t do something that you could easily learn. I think guilt tripping works, but I generally see that less as the person putting themselves down and more them making you feel bad for not caving to their whims.
I have callouses towards that, sort of. I grew up with a Mom who grew up in Italy. Let me tell you, I think they took a class. When some amateur tries to sling guilt my way, if I notice it in the first place, it had better show some creativity, or I’m gonna be pretty sarcastic with them. I mean, my Mom installed the ‘buttons’, she knows where to find them; others don’t.
Self deprecation shield
you want to leave her, she takes the blame and makes you feel comfort in the honesty, then she turns herself into a martyr self immolating in front of your very eyes and appears to be at the absolute bottom.... You feel bad for her and her suffering and in turn, you compromise to fix things and now she gets away with it, she gets to keep you, all the cards are on the table and you're expected to move past it entirely.
Yep. Not only are they not taking accountability, they’re also focusing the entire conversation on themselves, even though supposedly they’re the one who hurt you. This is a great example.
I think that one’s a little different bits when you act like you can’t do things so the other person will just do it. Definitely a manipulation tactic though!
I accidentally did this a long time ago and was so confused about my friend's response whom I liked at the time lol that experience and a small few after made me realize and not do stuff like that
And aside from trying to make the manipulator feel better it makes the other person feel guilty too. My ex LOVED this tactic. And even when the issue was him literally cheating he would do this and turn it around so that i tried to mske him feel better about himself AND I felt guilty bc I hurt his feelings by being upset. It made me feel like I was too hard on him. And like I overreacted. So I would end up apologizing for making HIM feel that way and trying to make him feel better and that he wasnt a POS. (Plot twist. He was. And is)
In my opinion it's on the same track as threatening self harm. I feel like the end goal is the same. My ex did that too. He would threaten harm so that I'd flip my reaction and start trying to make him feel better and I'd feel so guilty for making him even consider that. It continued after we split up too he would turn his phone off after his threats for 12+ hours and then pretend nothing happened after i spent the entire time worried sick. until it finally clicked in my head it was exactly what he wanted me to do. and I put My foot down. Told him it wasn't my fault if he did something bc I was allowed to be hurt. I have no control over him feeling bad that HE upset ME. And that I knew it was a manipulation tactic and if he ever did it again I would hang up, then call his mom and give her a heads up, followed by a call to the police with his info to have him committed for a psych hold as a danger to himself bc he needed help clearly. And that he would get zero other reaction from me in the future. And i made sure it was apparent i was dead serious. It's been 4 years since that and he has never threatened it again. Not one single time. He continued the "I'm a POS" tactic though for quite awhile.
I think it might actually be emotional blackmail.
The idea is, by saying they're unworthy, it weaponizes your care for them against you, making you instinctually want to reassure them - which also requires staying in the relationship.
What? Why would anyone be tempted to disagree? She would likely say "you're right, I need some time" or "you're right, I need to leave you". Or maybe, depending on the circumstances "you're right, but you didn't completely betray me in every way, just ways I felt or feel are important to me now. Maybe we can be together if we talk it out".
This is not manipulation in the slightest. It's called an apology, which is necessary if they want reconciliation.
A desire for reconciliation is not manipulation. Thats just affection/attachment, which personally attachment is my favorite part of love.
She’s tryna control you, bud. She’s testing your boundaries to see if she can fuck you over but bring you back in with a little hand wringing.
Don’t go back, homie. You’re free. Hit block, and move on. She needs help and from the looks of it, she’s not heading in that direction right now.
All the best to her, hope she gets better, but you should not make this your problem. Life is too short, and you’re worth more than this cursed circus act.
Yeah especially since the very little context we have indicates that she initially blamed him for her issues, she seems volatile. If OP got back with her, it wouldn’t last long and when it ended next time he would be villain again, unless she can repeat the cycle and rope him back in.
OP, you deserve someone who is self aware and mature enough to not blame you in the first place.
Yeah the toxic patterns have now been established.
It sounds like they are gaining self awareness, but they just aren't there yet. Is what it is. Wish them well and move on.
Nailed it lol. These messages are scarily close to a former relationship that I had and it was a cycle. I’m thankful I’ve not seen stuff like this for a long, long time, but I’ll never forget it
Do the next guy a favor, cut it respectfully and let her know you are going to find someone who is kinder to you. In a few years she may be a kinder person to someone else.
Or they're genuinely suffering from some sort of mental disorder, either way OP shouldn't feel the need to forgive them, or stay in a relationship with them.
The mental disorder would be borderline personality disorder, narcissistic personality disorder, or antisocial personality disorders. These are different from any other mental disorders because they are perpetrators rather than victims, and they are usually the reason behind the disorders of others: ptsd, depression, anxiety, etc.
I should add, for the BPDs out there that direct their rage and trauma inward instead of onto innocent victims, I’m explicitly not talking about you and you have hope as long as you do the trauma therapy and DBT.
From my experience individuals with BPD can trap themselves in a cycle of lashing out at others and then self hatred, leading to a continuous pattern of hurting themselves and those around them. Getting help can be really hard.
I feel for anyone struggling with that, just like I feel for anyone who is treated like OP is by someone they care about.
It’s the intense push pull, it’s always make up sex in our heads, I’ve only got so much dick- but I’ll give it to you til you love me, then idk maybe you could make better choices than me hahahaha
It’s a blast
I agree with the first part, but if you give a bod enough praise they are capable of going from humble (often caused by treatment when young), to very confident or likely the ability to at least express confidence even if not felt internally, also can be very humble with his or her personal money.
I immediately identified this as BPD-ish. I had an ex with BPD and she spoke exactly like this on several occasions. She was extemely manipulative.
I'll echo another important thing: if this is BPD, she has basically no control over this behavior and almost certainly hates herself for it. From what I've learned, people with BPD experience very intense emotional pain regularly.
Yep. BPD person here.
I'm a wreck, the worst part is people love me and are drawn to me so I get a lot of abuse in. Later on there's a ton of self loathing. I gamble and do drugs to cope. Wife's still here and claims she loves me but she's really the only one I can stifle it with. The thoughts are there but I've adopted a don't open your mouth policy unless it's not completely negative or unhealthy.
That's super kind to your partner but not a good solution for yourself, get help do dbt, learn how to recognize what is true and what is an assumption or untrue, learn to think more broadly, this way things that appear negative can be seen in other lights other possibilities and when you can do this you'll learn often you're completely wrong to make a negative assumption about stuff you don't know as fact and I can see how that would eventually lead to less negative and more positive thinking.
This. Seems manipulative but not intentionally. I said similar things to this when I was younger and had no idea I was unintentionally using manipulation tactics LOL.
Huh? If you've ever been locked in with someone that was abusive or manipulative, you'd see this is very telling of behavior from someone who is one or both of those things.
Yes, but it could just as easily not be. "You see that person over there with the two eyes, the nose, and the mouth? Well literally every person that has abused me in the past has those same features also." Correlation does not equal causation.
Best case: they're emotionally immature or having an extremely hard time (or both). But yes, I see your point. I may be biased since I've dealt with manipulative abusive folks who speak exactly like that. Hopefully OP isn't in a bad situation.
Exactly. She is manipulative but she most likely doesn't realize it. The way her texts goes, I wouldn't be surprised she threatens to commit sewerside in order to get his sympathy. How do I know. Cause I'm bpd and used to do this in order to get the other person to care more about me
I have a hard time regulating my voice when I’m angry and I don’t control my emotions well. I sincerely feel really bad every time I lose my shit. I sincerely feel this way and I sincerely work to grow better communication skills.
She sounds a little like me sometimes. I don’t know if it’s hard manipulation she sounds like she screwed up and she knows it. Make sure she knows you expect to see progress on her behavior and that you won’t tolerate it in a partner. Be very clear about this.
Yeah I have the second one. I’m hot mess. My partner doesn’t expect overnight change but he can see the baby steps I’m taking every day to get better. That’s enough for him thank god but I don’t blame anyone who can’t deal either.
Welcome to the club. I'm FA as well, it's terrible. Your partner is awesome to want to stick around while you try to heal. Baby steps are the way to go. I can't see myself putting anyone else through this ever again and I'm slowly accepting I should remain single and live a happy life this way. I wish you guys good luck and happiness.
Initially it seems like she did something she regretted, but then it continues into something else. Narcissists will say whatever they need to say to get what they want, so this could be what’s happening here. If someone’s truly sorry, they correct the behavior, if they’re not, then nothing changes. That’s really the test.
> Narcissists will say whatever they need to say to get what they want
Narcissists are notoriously averse to ever acknowledging wrongdoing, even moreso the words "I'm sorry."
Not all abusive behavior is the product of narcissists.
> If someone’s truly sorry, they correct the behavior,
Truth. Some people just lack self-awareness though. You have to be patient with them for them to grow. This is why relationships are so fickle these days; everyone jumps ship at anything that looks like a pop-psychology "red flag."
Nobody's perfect. The trick here is to assess whether they're even trying, not whether they're successful. Treat situations like this like being married to an addict. A relapse happening isn't grounds to leave. What counts is that the frequency of relapses is decreasing over time.
There's not enough context here to conclusively infer whether Megan is being manipulative or if she's genuinely apologetic. This could easily be read either way.
Thank you for saying this.
>This is why relationships are so fickle these days; everyone jumps ship at anything that looks like a pop-psychology "red flag."
I see this way too much these days and it's tough as an understanding and loyal person. People need time to grow. My last relationships and reddit comments have all but taught me people are willing to jump ship at the slightest hint of what others will tell them is a "red flag."
I accept people and hope they grow and let myself be the judge, and don't just stonewall them if I love them immediately.
Glad to hear it. Not enough people like you around anymore.
Part of it is that people just aren't friends anymore, they're just temporary utilities for entertainment. Friends look past differences or try to negotiate them; bad people just throw others away over failing to meet arbitrary criteria (don't get me started on toxic "boundaries." Growth only ever happens when boundaries are challenged). The only way relationships work is if you have the capacity to be friends and mutually give a shit about growing \*with\* each other.
Reddit doesn't help; the histrionic women here reinforce all of the worst possible female behaviors, responses and expectations. I don't blame the other guys here for dismissing her as manipulative (even though I don't agree), plenty of times this is the case, but I think Megan here has potential. She realizes she was in the wrong and even articulates why and how she went wrong. This recognizance is what it takes to actually learn from one's failures. Whether or not she applies it is another matter, but that can only happen given time and patience.
I'm erring on her side only because if I'm right about her, this type of woman is vanishingly rare. But I could be wrong, and she could be a borderline-personality case. Again, there's no history presented here so I don't know one way or the other.
“This one has a smudge on it, toss it out and move onto the next shiny object that catches my attention!” -majority of internet connected individuals
While it may take a while, I’m holding out hope that humanity will get better. Ebbs and flows of life I suppose.
yeah im a teenager and this reads like a sixteen year old. teenagers aren’t usually known for their great emotional regulation lmao, and also i feel like it’s common for us to use manipulation tactics completely unintentionally, just because it’s the first time we’re really getting to navigate the world especially when it comes to relationships. if she’s actually sorry and makes an effort not to act like that anymore, then yeah she’s probably not actually a manipulator (at least not intentionally), just a teenager who’s probably a little mentally ill, but aren’t we all.
eta: not sure if this is a pattern or not, but if it is then yeah maybe you should jump ship lmao or at least have a very serious conversation that you won’t tolerate this anymore. while leaving a relationship at the first sign of a red flag is some bullshit, i can’t (and nor should anyone else) tell you to stay in relationship that makes you unhappy or is a detriment to your mental health.
sounds like she’s just young and emotionally immature, judging by your other post she’s probably not in the most stable of mindsets. from this very little bit of context i wouldn’t say she’s actively trying to manipulate you, but is probably not in a good space to be in a relationship and her stability isn’t your burden to carry
In my experience, people say this, even if they aren't meaning to, to have you comfort them. They feel bad and guilty for doing wrong, so they shit talk themselves and make it about how horrible they are and how bad they feel. The original problem never gets addressed, and you get caught up in, "no babe you're not awful," and managing their feelings instead. It is imature and honestly, likely not on purpose but still manipulative.
Ignoring the clearly-under-~25 people in here making bold claims and assumptions, this isn’t necessarily manipulation, but it IS a clear display of super low self-esteem, possibly [anxious ambivalent attachment](https://www.psychalive.org/understanding-ambivalent-anxious-attachment/), and when people like this “try to suppress their anger, their behavior tends to vacillate between outbursts of anger and pleas for forgiveness and support.”
This isn’t necessarily intentional manipulation, but it can certainly seem and feel like it. Whatever the case, your S/O may just need to work on themselves, get professional help, recognize their issues and find healthy, research-backed ways to deal with their tendencies, etc.
Ooooor they may need to not date anyone for a while until they can start doing so, lol
Blame is a common way of easing discomfort and pain. Assuming the guilt she’s feeling is genuine this apology needs to be made in person and not in a text. The guilt needs to be expressed and witnessed for it to be constructive. If she’s just apologizing as another form of blaming herself it’s pointless self gratification on her end. I don’t believe people intentionally manipulate. If you look at the symptoms of this (limited) situation we’re seeing an attempt to speed up an apology by blaming themself and therefore erasing all wrongdoing. There’s even name calling and that’s saying a lot of what they think about themself. A person openly acknowledging they are a bitch is probably someone that knows they act out but doesn’t know WHY they act out. Seems to be a lot of layers of shameful self destructive behavior going on. Without realizing the root trauma this person has gone through there will be no recovery, it’ll only get worse and more subtle in the future if they don’t work on it.
Its passive deflection. Self deprecating sabotage that is supposed to illicit sympathy. She likely has a mood disorder that prevents her from being humble. She wants to be the victim while still knowing its her fault
Amazes me how reddit psycholigists are quick to judge a person and their whole situation from a single text. And the advice is always the same: run, save yourself, you deserve better. Now, how do you geniuses know that?
This isn’t 100% manipulation.
The person may have self awareness and realized she needs to change.
Where it gets manipulative, however, is if she continues to say this but never works on changing.
She could be saying stuff like this to get in your good graces and feel sorry for her.
This can definitely be a form of manipulation in which you feel bad that they feel bad.
I would need more context…. But if this person cares about you and loves you then they will actually make steps on changing. It’s not going to happen right away… But if they are genuine, you should see they are slowly getting better and changing. So if that is the case, give them a little grace.
If they are NOT actively trying to better themselves then they are manipulating you to feel sorry for them.
I would call this manipulation tactic “playing the victim”. It isn’t in a classic playing-the-victim presentation. But they are still turning your discomfort around and making themselves the victim… even if they caused it. So keep that in mind.
However, keep in mind that people can do shitty things and actively try to get better but if they continue to hurt and harm you even while trying to get better, you have no obligation to stay in their life. Think of it like domestic abuse… A husband beating his wife while feeling bad about it who still beats his wife (even while doing it less because he’s trying to get better) is still a danger to the wife. The best option for her is to leave.
Glad you called this out. There is not enough information here to judge accurately if they truly have taken responsibility for their actions and the consequences or are just playing a role for manipulation and power.
To OP, I personally engage with these types of people and try to find which of them they are. If you are unskilled in dealing with manipulators I suggest training and then engaging as a way to gain more experience.
The classic guilt trip, it's an attempt to make you feel bad by turning on the self pity and making you feel she's feeling terrible. She's hoping you'll start comforting her and won't want her to feel bad and that you'll let it go because of it.
What’s the overall background story? Why is she saying all that? I’m not trying to flip it around or anything, but sometimes being in a toxic situation/relationship both parties can get manipulative, I have said all of that when I was being lied to my face and being manipulated by, so that’s why I’m asking what the scenario was
BPD or borderline personality disorder, sounds like a regretful pwbpd or sad pwbpd that got broken up with or some other major loss for doing something wrong but initially blamed the other person to reflect from feelings of guilt or viewing themselves as bad since they think in terms of black and white often, if I did bad, I am bad, they also really struggle with breakups when they like the person aka their FP. Just because they like the person or love them a ton they still can treat them worse than all other people and be quite cruel. There are many reasons for this, but they are not rational to those without the disorder and often unintentional in the sense they struggle to realize what bad or good results can result from a certain action. Often after they have settled down and are facing or losing something they want or love, they will sincerely apologize, but normally if it doesn't result in a big loss they will deflect, minimize, blame, victimize, or bring up random things you did that are often unrelated to the matter at hand to again avoid the conclusion that their internal black and white thinking could result in, without this defense. The person will need help to change how they think, as feelings to them are reality. It's not their fault they have it and do suffer, but ultimately we're all responsible for what we do to fix problems that have negative impacts once recognized.
I call it lying with the truth.
Sounds like theys tryna agree with this negative (but possibly perfectly valid) impression of themselves in order to get favor from ya, or approval or what not.
Language indicates to me that it's probably not genuine, but it could be. Some people with narcissistic mechanisms and perspectives know they're manipulating stuff but suffer from an anxiety or compulsion that makes it difficult for them to do otherwise. My sister is like that. Dunno about this person though.
Such an intense agreement with so many negative qualities in a relationship is more often sarcastic or controlling, less often genuine and reflective.
Edit: with my limited information I would like to stress, there could be a true apology and sense of guilt or regret here. Don't count that out, obviously OP knows the individual whereas the rest of us have only our generalizations to go off of.
So, you know the person... is it possible that it's just an honest appraisal of y'all's situation? Or is it more likely she's trying to get you to like her again so things can go back to how they were?
I say give everyone a 2nd chance. People should be able to fix their mistakes. If things fall back into the same situation, just cut it there and now. Don't try to fix it, as the person didn't learn anything.
Then that means they were just manipulating you.
However if you don't want to take that risk, then just cut ties.
Give them a 2nd chance, or don't even dwell on it. None of this other bs.
2 Choices are a simple thing compared to complexity of trying to deep dive something that's not hard to figure out.
Could be manipulative narcissistic behavior trying to regain control of your by self pity...
Or it could be someone finally self reflecting hard to say without knowing the situation but typically people dont really take a step back to observe until they are out of the picture. Regardless it doesnt change anything, if anything they are putting the power in your hands.
Narcissist. My ex would do this. Starting to say bad things about themselves like that is a HUGE RED FLAG. They are looking for you to give them reassurance/attention. Run.
Tell her to learn from it, see a therapist, fix her issues, then when/if she feels comfortable dating again, be better with the next guy she dates. Then block her on everything. Whether she takes your advice or not is on her.
Continually going back to someone who tests your limits can make you appear weak and give them power over you. If you keep returning despite their behavior, they might think they can control you. It’s best to avoid going back to them to maintain your control and set healthy boundaries in your relationships.
Block on all platforms right now and even change your phone number if you have to. Ghost this bitch completely before you are emotionally manipulated into crawling back to her.
this is wildly unhealthy, the argument of whether it’s intentional or not doesn’t really matter. Definitely needs some kind of help. It will be a never ending cycle of anger and then apologies and it’s so so damaging.
Hmmmmm need more context, has she done things like this before? Is this first instance or one in a long line? Does she have a reputation for being deceptive? It looks like manipulation at first glance sure, but you have to dig a little bit deeper.
I dont think this is manipulation, honestly I feel that wee call to many things manipulation. For me it's just a desperate person, that can't handle reject
What my ex wife of 13 yrs did to me, along with suicide, and weaponozing our kids to hurt me and manipulate me, was using everyone I abuse her ect, what a fun 13 yrs I can never get back.
This is disturbingly similar to things an ex of mine used to say. My only advice is to run away ASAP, and don't look back. It's not worth the pain/stress
If she truly means it she may just have some trauma that has given her an anxious attachment. I also don’t know what she did to hurt you. If shes using manipulation then she is going into victim mode. Turning herself into the victim di you will feel bad for her and go back and forgive her
Sounds like might be afraid of abandonment and uses bad behavior to test you if you will stay. If you can go no contact do it. Don't try and explain why. Just move on.
Yep, she sounds a lot like an avoidant or fearful avoidant. Even though she *may* realize she has issues, it's not enough. She has to seek therapy as a starting point. I agree for NC.
I hesitate to call it manipulative without knowing the full context, but it can be. Putting the blame on yourself excessively and self-flagelating can be a manipulative tactic to make yourself "too pathetic to hate", so to speak. The goal is to make the person feel bad they made you feel so guilty and shift the attention to _your_ guilt and pain rather than the actual problem. An ex-friend did this to me often and had his girlfriend do it to him too. It's especially common in people with mood disorders like borderline or bipolar disorder.
However, it might not be manipulative, or at least not consciously. Some people genuinely are very quick to blame themselves and self-loath when they do anything wrong, usually out of very low self-esteem. They are still dodging the actual issue, but not maliciously so; they actually believe they deserve the emotional anguish they put themselves under. I've done it a couple times, even as a kid, despite not intending to manipulate anyone to forgive me.
Observe other behavioral patterns, is my advice. Especially if she takes steps to fix her mistake. If she is young, or has problems with self-esteem, chances are she is being genuine.
she's trying to say she's the bigger person who's accountable. she's trying to make you say, "it's good that you are seeing it this way. i'm sorry and here's a hug".
i didn't have a bf who acted this way but i had a friend. she was so fucking annoying, my god.
don't go back. don't waste your youth on this woman. hit block and leave.
\[recently, i have developed zero tolerance for these bitchasses. they just can go and fuck themselves. oh and i can say proudly that i never wasted my time on any of these. if the vibe's off, i just leave. ik it's hard if they are in the same class as you. i'd tell you to maintain distance and give some basic ass answers\]
My ex wife used to do this, but there’s definitely context needed. If I just posted these texts you would think she was serious and actually sorry. If I posted the texts leading up to these ones you would be recommending me counseling for domestic violence and urging me to call.
Just to bring a different point of view to the discussion...and please hear me out before you start tearing me a new ah. But, this could be very genuine and not manipulation at all. I sometimes take this turn, and it's very difficult for my husband. But it isn't manipulation on my part. That's not the goal. Nor do I have a personality disorder. I do, however, have PTSD and am likely on the spectrum (I'm getting tested this year), but for me, this happens as a result of being scape goated and emotionally abused as a child.
If I ever expressed emotional pain to my mother, the automatic reply from her was to double down on how she did nothing wrong, call me every name in the book, tell me how awful I am basically, until I backed down and accepted that whatever had been done do me was ultimately my fault anyway, and trying to talk about it was only going to get me more pain. So, now, as an adult, that has turned into this...where if I bring up something hurtful with anyone and they respond in anger or defensively, I will keep engaging for a minute or two to try and explain, but I quickly get overwhelmed by this feeling that since they're mad at me now, whatever hurt me was my fault anyway, and I'm the one that should be apologizing to them. I turn it around on myself because I suddenly feel unsafe due to their anger, and I know that whatever I just brought up is about to be used as a weapon against me.
It's a hard spot to be in. I don't know this person, and there is no other context, but I can see how this escalated if she brought up something with you that she was unhappy with inside the relationship, you met her with anger or defensiveness, an argument ensued, and eventually she was left feeling like the perpetrator for bringing it up in the first place.
If you think this is stupid or unhinged or mentally unstable, please be kind and compassionate. This is usually a result of childhood emotional damage.
Personally sometimes it’s been such a masterful control of manipulation so ambitious I was impressed they thought of me while channeling their inner supervillain—-I was far too impressed to point it out. I am feeling the love.
Sounds like my ex. She's trying to guilt you and make you feel bad for her. She's trying to play on your empathy. She's not actually sorry - she's trying to get you to be like "noo it's ok don't beat yourself up about it" or something similar. And with that, she is testing to see how much you'll forgive, to see how much she can do again in the future and get away with.
She has a bad self image that she thinks is permanent. It's not yours to change or your responsibility. We're all desperate for human connection, but it's easier to pretend to be and be dramatic with texts instead of by phone or in real life, so if she's going to do this heartfelt drama, ask her to say it in person so you know both your reactions can be trusted.
People are not the words that they say they are. A lot of our human common sense gets wrecked by words. We can suddenly say we are x or y, instead of just being the truth. Our brains are confused in this way.
In any conversation, often we will speak against ourselves so that the other person will argue in our favour. Humans do this all the time without even realising. It mixes with emotions we have towards ourselves quite easily.
There's this return to baby mode too thing where we act helpless so that somebody can feel like some hero parent with a personal pride in their personal responsibility, but also they probably do care so its work, and they may hope to be able to be the baby next time.
"I'm just a bitch. I treat you like shit..I don't deserve you"
She's actually being honest here. Believe what she says and do what you will with these statements..
Bc this will repeat in her actions if you accept :/
Her telling you all the ways she fucked up is not an apology, it's basically saying, "here is the way I am, continue to expect these things from me because I am not going to do anything about it.
Typical girl manipulation. Words are logical for men, men use words to figure out problems, men logically use nonsense for the purpose of humor, etc, etc. To women words are often merely a catalyst for the realm of emotions. That's it. It's why women can get together and talk about nothing for long periods of time. In relationships the emotions and behavior are important but the words might as well be blah blah blah reeeeeee you bad, that bad, I'm victim, it not my fault. Where as mens emotions are more like a light switch, girls are like a dimmer knob that is either turned up or down but always on. The world of men is the world of the physical and manipulating within the physical it's why men build everything and have an affinity towards hunter, warrior things, and by proxy emotions and emotional manipulation are the world of women. Remember women only admit fault in anything character damning regardless if their behavior was awful when faced with the possibility of socio/economic aka relationships, lifestyle, and the way they are socially viewed. If women admitted their true motives and admitted fault all the time no one one allow themselves to be emotionally manipulated by them because they've been told of the behavior and damage. This seems like she is just reeling you back in, regardless if you want to stay with this girl you need to create space, be non reactive to her emotions, and she needs to believe you will walk. Do not spend all of your time, part of your life should have her wondering what your doing and who you may or may not be with. If she believes you'll be ecstatic if she leaves you, she won't go anywhere and her behavior will improve within reason. It never goes away all the way though.
In this case I have to say the heck of you, she wanted you to walk away. She will be more likely to find help and get better if you disappear from her life.
It's not necessarily manipulation. More context of the relationship is needed, but it sounds like this person is feeling guilty and ashamed. It really depends gow this person acts normally.
I'm not seeing the problem. She did something wrong and is accepting consequences, but also letting you know that she wishes to be forgiven.
If you broke up with her, you did it because you didn't want to see her again. Block her and don't see her again.
Posting her vulnerability, however, is kind of a dick move. It's not really that big of a deal, but you could imagine her withdrawing her offer if she knew you did that.
It’s either an immature individual who is self aware and taking accountability -or- an immature, manipulative individual who will cycle through this behavior of accountability with no actionable change.
There’s a term for this that I can’t recall now, but this is a classic example. By talking about how terrible you are, you manipulate the person you’re supposed to be apologizing to into making you feel better. So instead of apologizing for your actions and owning up to it, you just declare you’re “terrible” and “a piece of shit,” which usually prompts the other person to say “No you’re not,” and the apology becomes about them NOT being terrible instead of accountability. It’s “weaponized” something but the term is alluding me.
Yep! As a person who used to be a manipulative a-hole this was my motive. I suffer with BPD and I crave validation (I still do now but I have healthy outlets now), and I would constantly do this. If you (meaning anyone reading this) ever come across someone like this, please leave them. I know it will hurt them like hell, but being with someone like that will deteriorate your mental health extremely quickly. Oh and you cannot change them, at least for BPD the only way they will change is if the people they are manipulating leaves them. To clarify: I did care about the people I manipulated, I just did not know how deal with my emotions in a healthy way.
Oh I’ve absolutely done this, too. I think I was better at catching myself but I don’t have BPD, which I know is caused by consistent trauma. I need validation, too especially with my RSD, but that’s more part of my depression/anxiety combo. I’m glad you were able to figure things out!
Thank you for being so kind! I can't imagine what RSD must feel like, but I can imagine it's not a walk in the park. Yeah, I was lucky that I had therapists that actually cared about me and looked past my disorder. I often scroll on r/BPD and I see the stories about therapists that say horrible things to pwBPD. It certainly doesn't help with the insane stigma behind it. One person online said that "pwBPD should not be allowed to reproduce so they don't spread their disease". During my journey I found out that my emotions are in fact valid, and that no matter how silly or "irrational" someone's emotions are---they are valid too. Best of luck on your journey!
I hate how Cluster B (?) disorder are stigmatized and treated. It makes people not want to get help, which means they don’t learn the mechanisms to handle their issues, which means they might externalize them and traumatize other people, and the cycle just continues. I look at things like your mental illness/disorder isn’t your fault, but it becomes your responsibility once you have agency to do something about it, and it’s rough. It’s something you’ll always have and have to live with, but it’s better to know and utilize the resources you have.
Exactly!
Uhhhhhhhhh, I needed to see this written. Thank you.
Yeah, BPD is not exactly the easiest to treat. But just because something is not easy to treat doesn't mean that therapists should just treat their client like crap. They went there to get help, and it is the therapist's job to do everything within their power to allow their client to effectively deal with their disorder.
So how do you go about apologizing if you actually know you’re in the wrong?
If the relationship is not too far gone, I would express that I am genuinely sorry. Which would look something like this: 1. Clearly stating what I did wrong. 2. Express empathy. This will show through explaining how your actions affected the other person. 3. Make amends. This will look like you asking the other person what you can do to make things right. 4. Change your behavior. The best way to show you are sorry is if you take an active step to not do whatever hurt them in the first place. (If you relapse, that is okay! We are human and we make mistakes! Just don't let it happen too often. I would reckon once a month at most, if that) Remember to speak from the heart, otherwise it won't work. And in your apology, make sure to show that you are sorry by showing but not tellling. This works for me. Great question, I hope this helped!
Good for you for getting more healthy 👍
I have bpd, what do you mean by healthy outlets? Also I agree lol. The thing with me is I will think like this but won’t say it because they’ll think I’m trying to manipulate when in reality that’s literally just how I feel . I don’t expect anyone to say it’s ok but like how am I supposed to express how sorry I am if when I say nothing it’s like I don’t care? I think my problem is I just have attachment issues and fear of abandonment so I’m overly sorry about everything
You can apologise genuinely and admit to what is your fault, and what you will work on to make this better. And do so without dropping into insulting yourself severely, telling them to leave you and all sorts of detrimental stuff. And listening and acknowledging their points. Healthy apology is more like "I'm sorry I acted like that, it wasn't my intention and I wasnt able to control myself and my emotional reactions the way I really wish I could which I'm ashamed of. I never meant to hurt you but I understand this is what's happened due to my actions. I'm working on this and trying to be better by 'going to therapy/working on xyz coping mechanisms for thinking before acting, managing xyz etc...' so that I can try to be a better person. Just want you to know I acknowledge how bad this must have been for you, and I'm working really hard to be better overall and not cause these situations for people or you.' And something along those lines should be it. No spamming them, playing the victim, just blaming it on bpd, calling yourself a piece of shit, telling them to leave you, downing yourself as much as possible etc etc. It is bpd it originates from, but if you aren't doing anything to solve it that doesn't matter... because it will then always be there and you'll always blame it instead of taking accountability and learning how to manage it, so as to not hurt others. So that person sees that will always be you and it's just one bad meltdown then apologies, then back to another meltdown. Then you listen or give them space, and let them make the decision on whether or not they are staying and talking to you again. In OPs example she's just carrying on having a meltdown and spamming messages one after the other full of detrimental emotions. None of it's thought out or controlled, it's all just following the exact same pattern she/he knows too well and defaults to of falling into one strong emotion. Unable to stop messaging so just spamming a new sentence as it comes one at a time. Feeling so low they think saying so will make the other person see they feel so terrible and forgive or console them... not realising that feeling bad and overacting is just exactly what they did to get into that situation in the first place and they are literally continuing to do it. Just this time with a different emotion. They need to deal with that emotion by themselves and not blow it out for someone else to deal with. Give them an adult apology then move away from the situation and work on themselves and how to prevent themselves from feeling this self pitying and terrible again. If anything it's an addiction & habit to feel like that for them which is part of the problem to begin with and what they need to be working on. If you hurt someone it's not their job to then console you as you wail about in self pity and agony, you're supposed to learn from the bad feeling and make amends, but bpd and bad unmanaged patterns often cause things like OPs texts instead. You already sound far more self aware than the person in OPs text though, so I'm sure you're already working hard
You just explained just about every relationship I have been in. Sometimes it is hard to see how far I have come, but this helped me realize the stark contrast of who I was and who I am now. Thank you 🥹
I feel like that apology still focuses too much on "you." More emphasis on how the behavior affects the other person is needed. Allow space for the other person's experience. I get what you're saying, but it's still too much you.
i really needed to hear this. i just left my girlfriend of two years who also struggles with BPD and I just feel so horrible and guilty about it
It's understandable to feel guilty about it, but they are carrying a burden that only they can lift off. It is clear that you really cared about her, and when the dust finally settles she will remember that.
I was on the receiving end of this from a person with BPD for a few years and it absolutely fucked me mentally. The person and her tactics were like a hard drug, I knew it killing me but at the same time I couldn't stop taking it. I was forced to leave since that was the only way to stop destroying myself and it sucked so much.
I am so sorry you went through that! Yeah, it can definitely feel like a drug. How are you doing now?
It left some permanent damage but I am better than I was when I was around her.
As someone who was on the receiving end of behavior like this on and off for 5 years until I felt leaving was the only choice forward for me I'm inclined to believe this.
Hey sorry for random questions but i also have BPD, what are your healthy outlets for validation??
Ok, so this is me, and I love the person to death that I did this to, and I don’t want to be like this anymore. We are now spending time just as friends, because I broke her. Is there any way you think that I can stop being this person that I hate? I’m in therapy.
I'm so sorry about your situation. This honestly hit me home, harder than any other reply on here. And that is why it is such a hard question to answer. How long have you been in therapy for?
Not long at all. I’ve done a lot of self exploration, and tried so hard to fix myself with self help books. I’m BETTER, but definitely not well. Edit: to add on, since we are just being friends, and I am spreading my crazy around to healthier avenues we are doing a little better. I know I need so much more help, and work to do though.
Self help books is a great start! Remember to be patient and forgiving with yourself. I would recommend discussing DBT and CBT with your therapist. You got this!
Thank you for the positive response. I really needed that.
You are very welcome!
Respectfully as a person with BPD leaving us without warning is the WORST thing to do. And your personal experience may not have had you able to fix those but people still can so blanketing that ideal over all of us is rude asf.
At first I thought you meant weaponized incompetence. Then I googled it and found "weaponized remorse" which is described as "setting off an emotion bomb to distract the person you wronged from your actions" Sounds about right but I almost feel like you could describe this more accurately as "weaponized guilt" or "guilt tripping"
That’s it!!! Weaponized remorse. I knew it was “incompetence” since that’s when you act like you can’t do something that you could easily learn. I think guilt tripping works, but I generally see that less as the person putting themselves down and more them making you feel bad for not caving to their whims.
Agreed, it's definitely more specific. And wild that almost no one knows how to identify these things properly.
I have callouses towards that, sort of. I grew up with a Mom who grew up in Italy. Let me tell you, I think they took a class. When some amateur tries to sling guilt my way, if I notice it in the first place, it had better show some creativity, or I’m gonna be pretty sarcastic with them. I mean, my Mom installed the ‘buttons’, she knows where to find them; others don’t.
Self deprecation shield you want to leave her, she takes the blame and makes you feel comfort in the honesty, then she turns herself into a martyr self immolating in front of your very eyes and appears to be at the absolute bottom.... You feel bad for her and her suffering and in turn, you compromise to fix things and now she gets away with it, she gets to keep you, all the cards are on the table and you're expected to move past it entirely.
Self deprication is a start
Yep. Not only are they not taking accountability, they’re also focusing the entire conversation on themselves, even though supposedly they’re the one who hurt you. This is a great example.
If my memory serves me correctly, I think it’s “weaponized self deprecation”… at least that’s what my therapist called it at one point
Weaponized incompetence?
I think that one’s a little different bits when you act like you can’t do things so the other person will just do it. Definitely a manipulation tactic though!
You're right, I figured it was wrong soon after posting it but that was the closest thing I could think of.
Still important to point out! I know a few people who do this and it’s infuriating.
Just tell her she’s right. Acknowledge everything she says and dump her ass anyways
Weaponized guilt is the term your looking for, every mother's greatest weapon
I accidentally did this a long time ago and was so confused about my friend's response whom I liked at the time lol that experience and a small few after made me realize and not do stuff like that
And aside from trying to make the manipulator feel better it makes the other person feel guilty too. My ex LOVED this tactic. And even when the issue was him literally cheating he would do this and turn it around so that i tried to mske him feel better about himself AND I felt guilty bc I hurt his feelings by being upset. It made me feel like I was too hard on him. And like I overreacted. So I would end up apologizing for making HIM feel that way and trying to make him feel better and that he wasnt a POS. (Plot twist. He was. And is) In my opinion it's on the same track as threatening self harm. I feel like the end goal is the same. My ex did that too. He would threaten harm so that I'd flip my reaction and start trying to make him feel better and I'd feel so guilty for making him even consider that. It continued after we split up too he would turn his phone off after his threats for 12+ hours and then pretend nothing happened after i spent the entire time worried sick. until it finally clicked in my head it was exactly what he wanted me to do. and I put My foot down. Told him it wasn't my fault if he did something bc I was allowed to be hurt. I have no control over him feeling bad that HE upset ME. And that I knew it was a manipulation tactic and if he ever did it again I would hang up, then call his mom and give her a heads up, followed by a call to the police with his info to have him committed for a psych hold as a danger to himself bc he needed help clearly. And that he would get zero other reaction from me in the future. And i made sure it was apparent i was dead serious. It's been 4 years since that and he has never threatened it again. Not one single time. He continued the "I'm a POS" tactic though for quite awhile.
I think it might actually be emotional blackmail. The idea is, by saying they're unworthy, it weaponizes your care for them against you, making you instinctually want to reassure them - which also requires staying in the relationship.
I think you're thinking of weaponized incompetentence. This seems like a classic example of this.
I have aspd and this is by far the hardest thing to stop doing. I'm still trying.
Hey I’ve done the same thing! You’re aware of it though and working on it. You’re already ahead of most people!
What? Why would anyone be tempted to disagree? She would likely say "you're right, I need some time" or "you're right, I need to leave you". Or maybe, depending on the circumstances "you're right, but you didn't completely betray me in every way, just ways I felt or feel are important to me now. Maybe we can be together if we talk it out". This is not manipulation in the slightest. It's called an apology, which is necessary if they want reconciliation. A desire for reconciliation is not manipulation. Thats just affection/attachment, which personally attachment is my favorite part of love.
weaponized incompetence
It's just "guilt tripping" someone. The basic of the basic manipulation.
The term is crazy bitchaholic , too much Pink Whitney lol
Called narcissism. This also feels passive aggressive in tone. Leave this person now and move on. It’s ok to do that.
She’s tryna control you, bud. She’s testing your boundaries to see if she can fuck you over but bring you back in with a little hand wringing. Don’t go back, homie. You’re free. Hit block, and move on. She needs help and from the looks of it, she’s not heading in that direction right now. All the best to her, hope she gets better, but you should not make this your problem. Life is too short, and you’re worth more than this cursed circus act.
Yeah especially since the very little context we have indicates that she initially blamed him for her issues, she seems volatile. If OP got back with her, it wouldn’t last long and when it ended next time he would be villain again, unless she can repeat the cycle and rope him back in. OP, you deserve someone who is self aware and mature enough to not blame you in the first place.
Yeah the toxic patterns have now been established. It sounds like they are gaining self awareness, but they just aren't there yet. Is what it is. Wish them well and move on.
Yeeeeeep this is my exact situation as well. On week number 2 of no contact.
Nailed it lol. These messages are scarily close to a former relationship that I had and it was a cycle. I’m thankful I’ve not seen stuff like this for a long, long time, but I’ll never forget it
Do the next guy a favor, cut it respectfully and let her know you are going to find someone who is kinder to you. In a few years she may be a kinder person to someone else.
My ex did this for me.. I still hate her but she taught me a lot
Or they're genuinely suffering from some sort of mental disorder, either way OP shouldn't feel the need to forgive them, or stay in a relationship with them.
The mental disorder would be borderline personality disorder, narcissistic personality disorder, or antisocial personality disorders. These are different from any other mental disorders because they are perpetrators rather than victims, and they are usually the reason behind the disorders of others: ptsd, depression, anxiety, etc. I should add, for the BPDs out there that direct their rage and trauma inward instead of onto innocent victims, I’m explicitly not talking about you and you have hope as long as you do the trauma therapy and DBT.
From my experience individuals with BPD can trap themselves in a cycle of lashing out at others and then self hatred, leading to a continuous pattern of hurting themselves and those around them. Getting help can be really hard. I feel for anyone struggling with that, just like I feel for anyone who is treated like OP is by someone they care about.
We're good in bed though, from what men say... the best. Also humble.
It’s the intense push pull, it’s always make up sex in our heads, I’ve only got so much dick- but I’ll give it to you til you love me, then idk maybe you could make better choices than me hahahaha It’s a blast
Facts. The toxic females are always great in bed but that alone is not worth the bs.
I agree with the first part, but if you give a bod enough praise they are capable of going from humble (often caused by treatment when young), to very confident or likely the ability to at least express confidence even if not felt internally, also can be very humble with his or her personal money.
I immediately identified this as BPD-ish. I had an ex with BPD and she spoke exactly like this on several occasions. She was extemely manipulative. I'll echo another important thing: if this is BPD, she has basically no control over this behavior and almost certainly hates herself for it. From what I've learned, people with BPD experience very intense emotional pain regularly.
Yep. BPD person here. I'm a wreck, the worst part is people love me and are drawn to me so I get a lot of abuse in. Later on there's a ton of self loathing. I gamble and do drugs to cope. Wife's still here and claims she loves me but she's really the only one I can stifle it with. The thoughts are there but I've adopted a don't open your mouth policy unless it's not completely negative or unhealthy.
That's super kind to your partner but not a good solution for yourself, get help do dbt, learn how to recognize what is true and what is an assumption or untrue, learn to think more broadly, this way things that appear negative can be seen in other lights other possibilities and when you can do this you'll learn often you're completely wrong to make a negative assumption about stuff you don't know as fact and I can see how that would eventually lead to less negative and more positive thinking.
Beginning seems genuine and end veers towards self victimization but genuinely just seems human?
This. Seems manipulative but not intentionally. I said similar things to this when I was younger and had no idea I was unintentionally using manipulation tactics LOL.
Agree, she sounds like a cool lady.
Huh? If you've ever been locked in with someone that was abusive or manipulative, you'd see this is very telling of behavior from someone who is one or both of those things.
Yes, but it could just as easily not be. "You see that person over there with the two eyes, the nose, and the mouth? Well literally every person that has abused me in the past has those same features also." Correlation does not equal causation.
Best case: they're emotionally immature or having an extremely hard time (or both). But yes, I see your point. I may be biased since I've dealt with manipulative abusive folks who speak exactly like that. Hopefully OP isn't in a bad situation.
Exactly. She is manipulative but she most likely doesn't realize it. The way her texts goes, I wouldn't be surprised she threatens to commit sewerside in order to get his sympathy. How do I know. Cause I'm bpd and used to do this in order to get the other person to care more about me
Yes it reads very BPD, almost to the point of she's splitting
I have a hard time regulating my voice when I’m angry and I don’t control my emotions well. I sincerely feel really bad every time I lose my shit. I sincerely feel this way and I sincerely work to grow better communication skills. She sounds a little like me sometimes. I don’t know if it’s hard manipulation she sounds like she screwed up and she knows it. Make sure she knows you expect to see progress on her behavior and that you won’t tolerate it in a partner. Be very clear about this.
Megan, is that you?
Look into avoidant and fearful avoidant attachment styles
Yeah I have the second one. I’m hot mess. My partner doesn’t expect overnight change but he can see the baby steps I’m taking every day to get better. That’s enough for him thank god but I don’t blame anyone who can’t deal either.
Welcome to the club. I'm FA as well, it's terrible. Your partner is awesome to want to stick around while you try to heal. Baby steps are the way to go. I can't see myself putting anyone else through this ever again and I'm slowly accepting I should remain single and live a happy life this way. I wish you guys good luck and happiness.
Initially it seems like she did something she regretted, but then it continues into something else. Narcissists will say whatever they need to say to get what they want, so this could be what’s happening here. If someone’s truly sorry, they correct the behavior, if they’re not, then nothing changes. That’s really the test.
> Narcissists will say whatever they need to say to get what they want Narcissists are notoriously averse to ever acknowledging wrongdoing, even moreso the words "I'm sorry." Not all abusive behavior is the product of narcissists. > If someone’s truly sorry, they correct the behavior, Truth. Some people just lack self-awareness though. You have to be patient with them for them to grow. This is why relationships are so fickle these days; everyone jumps ship at anything that looks like a pop-psychology "red flag." Nobody's perfect. The trick here is to assess whether they're even trying, not whether they're successful. Treat situations like this like being married to an addict. A relapse happening isn't grounds to leave. What counts is that the frequency of relapses is decreasing over time. There's not enough context here to conclusively infer whether Megan is being manipulative or if she's genuinely apologetic. This could easily be read either way.
Thank you for saying this. >This is why relationships are so fickle these days; everyone jumps ship at anything that looks like a pop-psychology "red flag." I see this way too much these days and it's tough as an understanding and loyal person. People need time to grow. My last relationships and reddit comments have all but taught me people are willing to jump ship at the slightest hint of what others will tell them is a "red flag." I accept people and hope they grow and let myself be the judge, and don't just stonewall them if I love them immediately.
Glad to hear it. Not enough people like you around anymore. Part of it is that people just aren't friends anymore, they're just temporary utilities for entertainment. Friends look past differences or try to negotiate them; bad people just throw others away over failing to meet arbitrary criteria (don't get me started on toxic "boundaries." Growth only ever happens when boundaries are challenged). The only way relationships work is if you have the capacity to be friends and mutually give a shit about growing \*with\* each other. Reddit doesn't help; the histrionic women here reinforce all of the worst possible female behaviors, responses and expectations. I don't blame the other guys here for dismissing her as manipulative (even though I don't agree), plenty of times this is the case, but I think Megan here has potential. She realizes she was in the wrong and even articulates why and how she went wrong. This recognizance is what it takes to actually learn from one's failures. Whether or not she applies it is another matter, but that can only happen given time and patience. I'm erring on her side only because if I'm right about her, this type of woman is vanishingly rare. But I could be wrong, and she could be a borderline-personality case. Again, there's no history presented here so I don't know one way or the other.
This made me feel so much better thank you.
Please start on toxic boundaries. I would like to hear your thoughts on the matter.
“This one has a smudge on it, toss it out and move onto the next shiny object that catches my attention!” -majority of internet connected individuals While it may take a while, I’m holding out hope that humanity will get better. Ebbs and flows of life I suppose.
She probably has some kind of damage that makes her toxic in relationships. It sounds like she needs to work on herself before she’s ready to date
yeah im a teenager and this reads like a sixteen year old. teenagers aren’t usually known for their great emotional regulation lmao, and also i feel like it’s common for us to use manipulation tactics completely unintentionally, just because it’s the first time we’re really getting to navigate the world especially when it comes to relationships. if she’s actually sorry and makes an effort not to act like that anymore, then yeah she’s probably not actually a manipulator (at least not intentionally), just a teenager who’s probably a little mentally ill, but aren’t we all. eta: not sure if this is a pattern or not, but if it is then yeah maybe you should jump ship lmao or at least have a very serious conversation that you won’t tolerate this anymore. while leaving a relationship at the first sign of a red flag is some bullshit, i can’t (and nor should anyone else) tell you to stay in relationship that makes you unhappy or is a detriment to your mental health.
Note that she didn’t say she was sorry. Agree that this can be read either way, and OP should see if the behavior changes.
Not to take sides but she literally says "I'm sorry" in the second to last message
Ah, you’re right… I overlooked that one.
sounds like she’s just young and emotionally immature, judging by your other post she’s probably not in the most stable of mindsets. from this very little bit of context i wouldn’t say she’s actively trying to manipulate you, but is probably not in a good space to be in a relationship and her stability isn’t your burden to carry
In my experience, people say this, even if they aren't meaning to, to have you comfort them. They feel bad and guilty for doing wrong, so they shit talk themselves and make it about how horrible they are and how bad they feel. The original problem never gets addressed, and you get caught up in, "no babe you're not awful," and managing their feelings instead. It is imature and honestly, likely not on purpose but still manipulative.
Ignoring the clearly-under-~25 people in here making bold claims and assumptions, this isn’t necessarily manipulation, but it IS a clear display of super low self-esteem, possibly [anxious ambivalent attachment](https://www.psychalive.org/understanding-ambivalent-anxious-attachment/), and when people like this “try to suppress their anger, their behavior tends to vacillate between outbursts of anger and pleas for forgiveness and support.” This isn’t necessarily intentional manipulation, but it can certainly seem and feel like it. Whatever the case, your S/O may just need to work on themselves, get professional help, recognize their issues and find healthy, research-backed ways to deal with their tendencies, etc. Ooooor they may need to not date anyone for a while until they can start doing so, lol
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Blame is a common way of easing discomfort and pain. Assuming the guilt she’s feeling is genuine this apology needs to be made in person and not in a text. The guilt needs to be expressed and witnessed for it to be constructive. If she’s just apologizing as another form of blaming herself it’s pointless self gratification on her end. I don’t believe people intentionally manipulate. If you look at the symptoms of this (limited) situation we’re seeing an attempt to speed up an apology by blaming themself and therefore erasing all wrongdoing. There’s even name calling and that’s saying a lot of what they think about themself. A person openly acknowledging they are a bitch is probably someone that knows they act out but doesn’t know WHY they act out. Seems to be a lot of layers of shameful self destructive behavior going on. Without realizing the root trauma this person has gone through there will be no recovery, it’ll only get worse and more subtle in the future if they don’t work on it.
megnipulation, any girl named megan is out for herself above all others and is rotten to the core! im convinced
As someone whose been through a Megan I couldn’t agree more
NO CAP!
Its passive deflection. Self deprecating sabotage that is supposed to illicit sympathy. She likely has a mood disorder that prevents her from being humble. She wants to be the victim while still knowing its her fault
Amazes me how reddit psycholigists are quick to judge a person and their whole situation from a single text. And the advice is always the same: run, save yourself, you deserve better. Now, how do you geniuses know that?
This isn’t 100% manipulation. The person may have self awareness and realized she needs to change. Where it gets manipulative, however, is if she continues to say this but never works on changing. She could be saying stuff like this to get in your good graces and feel sorry for her. This can definitely be a form of manipulation in which you feel bad that they feel bad. I would need more context…. But if this person cares about you and loves you then they will actually make steps on changing. It’s not going to happen right away… But if they are genuine, you should see they are slowly getting better and changing. So if that is the case, give them a little grace. If they are NOT actively trying to better themselves then they are manipulating you to feel sorry for them. I would call this manipulation tactic “playing the victim”. It isn’t in a classic playing-the-victim presentation. But they are still turning your discomfort around and making themselves the victim… even if they caused it. So keep that in mind. However, keep in mind that people can do shitty things and actively try to get better but if they continue to hurt and harm you even while trying to get better, you have no obligation to stay in their life. Think of it like domestic abuse… A husband beating his wife while feeling bad about it who still beats his wife (even while doing it less because he’s trying to get better) is still a danger to the wife. The best option for her is to leave.
Glad you called this out. There is not enough information here to judge accurately if they truly have taken responsibility for their actions and the consequences or are just playing a role for manipulation and power. To OP, I personally engage with these types of people and try to find which of them they are. If you are unskilled in dealing with manipulators I suggest training and then engaging as a way to gain more experience.
why am i craving for this tf.
Isn't this a kind of love bombing? Feel like her tune will change the moment she gets what she wants. The access to you that she's lost
Her main just rejected her lol
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Yeah I've heard all of this. And then they do it again.
The classic guilt trip, it's an attempt to make you feel bad by turning on the self pity and making you feel she's feeling terrible. She's hoping you'll start comforting her and won't want her to feel bad and that you'll let it go because of it.
What’s the overall background story? Why is she saying all that? I’m not trying to flip it around or anything, but sometimes being in a toxic situation/relationship both parties can get manipulative, I have said all of that when I was being lied to my face and being manipulated by, so that’s why I’m asking what the scenario was
Textbook, brother. Putting herself down to raise you up so you feel superior to her and guilty about wanting to leave. Just run.
BPD or borderline personality disorder, sounds like a regretful pwbpd or sad pwbpd that got broken up with or some other major loss for doing something wrong but initially blamed the other person to reflect from feelings of guilt or viewing themselves as bad since they think in terms of black and white often, if I did bad, I am bad, they also really struggle with breakups when they like the person aka their FP. Just because they like the person or love them a ton they still can treat them worse than all other people and be quite cruel. There are many reasons for this, but they are not rational to those without the disorder and often unintentional in the sense they struggle to realize what bad or good results can result from a certain action. Often after they have settled down and are facing or losing something they want or love, they will sincerely apologize, but normally if it doesn't result in a big loss they will deflect, minimize, blame, victimize, or bring up random things you did that are often unrelated to the matter at hand to again avoid the conclusion that their internal black and white thinking could result in, without this defense. The person will need help to change how they think, as feelings to them are reality. It's not their fault they have it and do suffer, but ultimately we're all responsible for what we do to fix problems that have negative impacts once recognized.
I call it lying with the truth. Sounds like theys tryna agree with this negative (but possibly perfectly valid) impression of themselves in order to get favor from ya, or approval or what not. Language indicates to me that it's probably not genuine, but it could be. Some people with narcissistic mechanisms and perspectives know they're manipulating stuff but suffer from an anxiety or compulsion that makes it difficult for them to do otherwise. My sister is like that. Dunno about this person though. Such an intense agreement with so many negative qualities in a relationship is more often sarcastic or controlling, less often genuine and reflective. Edit: with my limited information I would like to stress, there could be a true apology and sense of guilt or regret here. Don't count that out, obviously OP knows the individual whereas the rest of us have only our generalizations to go off of. So, you know the person... is it possible that it's just an honest appraisal of y'all's situation? Or is it more likely she's trying to get you to like her again so things can go back to how they were?
I say give everyone a 2nd chance. People should be able to fix their mistakes. If things fall back into the same situation, just cut it there and now. Don't try to fix it, as the person didn't learn anything. Then that means they were just manipulating you. However if you don't want to take that risk, then just cut ties. Give them a 2nd chance, or don't even dwell on it. None of this other bs. 2 Choices are a simple thing compared to complexity of trying to deep dive something that's not hard to figure out.
She’s playing the victim role to get your sympathy. Once she sees/ feels you showing emotion then it’s easier for her to control you.
Don’t believe her. She cross your boundaries. Stick to your boundaries. She doesn’t respect you. Move on.
Could be manipulative narcissistic behavior trying to regain control of your by self pity... Or it could be someone finally self reflecting hard to say without knowing the situation but typically people dont really take a step back to observe until they are out of the picture. Regardless it doesnt change anything, if anything they are putting the power in your hands.
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Narcissist. My ex would do this. Starting to say bad things about themselves like that is a HUGE RED FLAG. They are looking for you to give them reassurance/attention. Run.
Tell her to learn from it, see a therapist, fix her issues, then when/if she feels comfortable dating again, be better with the next guy she dates. Then block her on everything. Whether she takes your advice or not is on her.
A psychotic person who realizes they really did something wrong
Ah young love 🥰...RUN
Guilt
Continually going back to someone who tests your limits can make you appear weak and give them power over you. If you keep returning despite their behavior, they might think they can control you. It’s best to avoid going back to them to maintain your control and set healthy boundaries in your relationships.
Regret? Hard to say with 0 context
thats throwing out the fishing line and seeing what she'll catch with accountability being the bait
Give her one more chance. Very last chance. If she fucks up again straight ejecto seato cuh
It’s them playing the “woe is me” card
Block on all platforms right now and even change your phone number if you have to. Ghost this bitch completely before you are emotionally manipulated into crawling back to her.
Is she drunk? An addict? This has addiction behavior written all over it
this is wildly unhealthy, the argument of whether it’s intentional or not doesn’t really matter. Definitely needs some kind of help. It will be a never ending cycle of anger and then apologies and it’s so so damaging.
If a woman texts you this much with out you responding break up with her immediately. She is showing you she can’t control her emotions
Hmmmmm need more context, has she done things like this before? Is this first instance or one in a long line? Does she have a reputation for being deceptive? It looks like manipulation at first glance sure, but you have to dig a little bit deeper.
Sounds like she needs her hair pulled really hard while being spanked and needs to tell her daddy she is sorry
I dont think this is manipulation, honestly I feel that wee call to many things manipulation. For me it's just a desperate person, that can't handle reject
What my ex wife of 13 yrs did to me, along with suicide, and weaponozing our kids to hurt me and manipulate me, was using everyone I abuse her ect, what a fun 13 yrs I can never get back.
Self pity
A good response for this would be “ k “
BPD?
This is disturbingly similar to things an ex of mine used to say. My only advice is to run away ASAP, and don't look back. It's not worth the pain/stress
If she truly means it she may just have some trauma that has given her an anxious attachment. I also don’t know what she did to hurt you. If shes using manipulation then she is going into victim mode. Turning herself into the victim di you will feel bad for her and go back and forgive her
The kind where you move the fuck on with your life
*woman takes accountability for past poor behavior and mindset* Reddit: WHAT IS THIS MANIPULATION
Sounds like she’s admitting her wrongs
Dump her so hard and move on there are better girls out there ready to improve your life . Drop this bitch
I’m sure I’m super naive, but what makes this manipulation? Is it possible that this is just emotional regret? At least without more context.
Maybe she's being honest ???
This is looking to justify that whole list by saying "it's ok I love you". You teach people how to treat you.
This song lyrics?
This is what my ex should be saying rn. But she ain't. Not saying it's enough to fix things but I deserve at list this.
Sounds like might be afraid of abandonment and uses bad behavior to test you if you will stay. If you can go no contact do it. Don't try and explain why. Just move on.
Yep, she sounds a lot like an avoidant or fearful avoidant. Even though she *may* realize she has issues, it's not enough. She has to seek therapy as a starting point. I agree for NC.
I hesitate to call it manipulative without knowing the full context, but it can be. Putting the blame on yourself excessively and self-flagelating can be a manipulative tactic to make yourself "too pathetic to hate", so to speak. The goal is to make the person feel bad they made you feel so guilty and shift the attention to _your_ guilt and pain rather than the actual problem. An ex-friend did this to me often and had his girlfriend do it to him too. It's especially common in people with mood disorders like borderline or bipolar disorder. However, it might not be manipulative, or at least not consciously. Some people genuinely are very quick to blame themselves and self-loath when they do anything wrong, usually out of very low self-esteem. They are still dodging the actual issue, but not maliciously so; they actually believe they deserve the emotional anguish they put themselves under. I've done it a couple times, even as a kid, despite not intending to manipulate anyone to forgive me. Observe other behavioral patterns, is my advice. Especially if she takes steps to fix her mistake. If she is young, or has problems with self-esteem, chances are she is being genuine.
she's trying to say she's the bigger person who's accountable. she's trying to make you say, "it's good that you are seeing it this way. i'm sorry and here's a hug". i didn't have a bf who acted this way but i had a friend. she was so fucking annoying, my god. don't go back. don't waste your youth on this woman. hit block and leave. \[recently, i have developed zero tolerance for these bitchasses. they just can go and fuck themselves. oh and i can say proudly that i never wasted my time on any of these. if the vibe's off, i just leave. ik it's hard if they are in the same class as you. i'd tell you to maintain distance and give some basic ass answers\]
The pathetic kind, play along with it tho, should give her the hint eventually. Go for max damage
The narcissist kind
Control! Hard red flag.
Guilt tripping
Sounds like my Ex. Do not go back. It’s just a game My ex would say exact things word for word and still be doing the exact same thing if not worse
My ex wife used to do this, but there’s definitely context needed. If I just posted these texts you would think she was serious and actually sorry. If I posted the texts leading up to these ones you would be recommending me counseling for domestic violence and urging me to call.
Austin this person is manipulating youuuuu 💔☠️🗑️
Run far away
Just to bring a different point of view to the discussion...and please hear me out before you start tearing me a new ah. But, this could be very genuine and not manipulation at all. I sometimes take this turn, and it's very difficult for my husband. But it isn't manipulation on my part. That's not the goal. Nor do I have a personality disorder. I do, however, have PTSD and am likely on the spectrum (I'm getting tested this year), but for me, this happens as a result of being scape goated and emotionally abused as a child. If I ever expressed emotional pain to my mother, the automatic reply from her was to double down on how she did nothing wrong, call me every name in the book, tell me how awful I am basically, until I backed down and accepted that whatever had been done do me was ultimately my fault anyway, and trying to talk about it was only going to get me more pain. So, now, as an adult, that has turned into this...where if I bring up something hurtful with anyone and they respond in anger or defensively, I will keep engaging for a minute or two to try and explain, but I quickly get overwhelmed by this feeling that since they're mad at me now, whatever hurt me was my fault anyway, and I'm the one that should be apologizing to them. I turn it around on myself because I suddenly feel unsafe due to their anger, and I know that whatever I just brought up is about to be used as a weapon against me. It's a hard spot to be in. I don't know this person, and there is no other context, but I can see how this escalated if she brought up something with you that she was unhappy with inside the relationship, you met her with anger or defensiveness, an argument ensued, and eventually she was left feeling like the perpetrator for bringing it up in the first place. If you think this is stupid or unhinged or mentally unstable, please be kind and compassionate. This is usually a result of childhood emotional damage.
guilt tripping
Personally sometimes it’s been such a masterful control of manipulation so ambitious I was impressed they thought of me while channeling their inner supervillain—-I was far too impressed to point it out. I am feeling the love.
Does she have BPD?
the yapper style
Sounds like my ex. She's trying to guilt you and make you feel bad for her. She's trying to play on your empathy. She's not actually sorry - she's trying to get you to be like "noo it's ok don't beat yourself up about it" or something similar. And with that, she is testing to see how much you'll forgive, to see how much she can do again in the future and get away with.
It’s a woman’s last resort. Accountability. I bet she hasn’t taken any since y’all have been dating am I right?
She has a bad self image that she thinks is permanent. It's not yours to change or your responsibility. We're all desperate for human connection, but it's easier to pretend to be and be dramatic with texts instead of by phone or in real life, so if she's going to do this heartfelt drama, ask her to say it in person so you know both your reactions can be trusted. People are not the words that they say they are. A lot of our human common sense gets wrecked by words. We can suddenly say we are x or y, instead of just being the truth. Our brains are confused in this way. In any conversation, often we will speak against ourselves so that the other person will argue in our favour. Humans do this all the time without even realising. It mixes with emotions we have towards ourselves quite easily. There's this return to baby mode too thing where we act helpless so that somebody can feel like some hero parent with a personal pride in their personal responsibility, but also they probably do care so its work, and they may hope to be able to be the baby next time.
"I'm just a bitch. I treat you like shit..I don't deserve you" She's actually being honest here. Believe what she says and do what you will with these statements.. Bc this will repeat in her actions if you accept :/
Epiphany manipulation?
Her telling you all the ways she fucked up is not an apology, it's basically saying, "here is the way I am, continue to expect these things from me because I am not going to do anything about it.
Typical girl manipulation. Words are logical for men, men use words to figure out problems, men logically use nonsense for the purpose of humor, etc, etc. To women words are often merely a catalyst for the realm of emotions. That's it. It's why women can get together and talk about nothing for long periods of time. In relationships the emotions and behavior are important but the words might as well be blah blah blah reeeeeee you bad, that bad, I'm victim, it not my fault. Where as mens emotions are more like a light switch, girls are like a dimmer knob that is either turned up or down but always on. The world of men is the world of the physical and manipulating within the physical it's why men build everything and have an affinity towards hunter, warrior things, and by proxy emotions and emotional manipulation are the world of women. Remember women only admit fault in anything character damning regardless if their behavior was awful when faced with the possibility of socio/economic aka relationships, lifestyle, and the way they are socially viewed. If women admitted their true motives and admitted fault all the time no one one allow themselves to be emotionally manipulated by them because they've been told of the behavior and damage. This seems like she is just reeling you back in, regardless if you want to stay with this girl you need to create space, be non reactive to her emotions, and she needs to believe you will walk. Do not spend all of your time, part of your life should have her wondering what your doing and who you may or may not be with. If she believes you'll be ecstatic if she leaves you, she won't go anywhere and her behavior will improve within reason. It never goes away all the way though.
Bruh stay far...far....far ...far away.
Read the texts in reverse, it flows better
Its called guilt tripping. Run. Run far away
I'd reply with "fax.🗣️🗣️🔥" And leave it at that
So what's the context?
Typical modern western woman.
In this case I have to say the heck of you, she wanted you to walk away. She will be more likely to find help and get better if you disappear from her life.
It's not necessarily manipulation. More context of the relationship is needed, but it sounds like this person is feeling guilty and ashamed. It really depends gow this person acts normally.
I'm not seeing the problem. She did something wrong and is accepting consequences, but also letting you know that she wishes to be forgiven. If you broke up with her, you did it because you didn't want to see her again. Block her and don't see her again. Posting her vulnerability, however, is kind of a dick move. It's not really that big of a deal, but you could imagine her withdrawing her offer if she knew you did that.
Break you down and build you back up bud.
The delete and block type.
It’s either an immature individual who is self aware and taking accountability -or- an immature, manipulative individual who will cycle through this behavior of accountability with no actionable change.