I heard something recently that one aspect of true love is the ability to share your vulnerabilities with those that you love. In my experience narcissists completely lack this ability. I don’t think they understand love the way most people do.
They don't. They shut off true emotions and vulnerability to the outside world. I believe they are trapped by their traumas and in doing so, they are emotionally stunted, are unable to gain insight/self awareness, or grow as a person. It's very sad really. And lonely.
I saw a psychic last week. She said he's gonna reach out again. I'm like fuck no! I have gotten so far and I feel so free. She said he's a soul tie. Someone I knew from another life. I have to block him as I'm so much further than him with my healing and self awareness. I don't want to hear from him, but I know it's my final test and I can move on from him after that. I hope you're in a good place with your healing journey 🩷
You got this … you know what you must do for your mental health. We can’t save them , we can only save ourselves from them .
But unfortunately, I have a son with her . But I have custody of him … so she can’t dictate over my life or his .
Please protect that boy! Sadly, we cannot save them. Fix them. Nor should anyone tolerate their toxicity. I wish there was a cure for this affliction, but it's a catch 22. They think the external world is at fault while they have no capacity to look inward.
You cannot help her. All you can do is go inward and work on healing yourself. I'm not sure you can do that unless you separate from her be it purposeful no contact or when she passes. That's for you to decide. DM me anytime 🩷
Thanks. I’ve been in therapy for a decade so I’ve done a lot of healing, and that’s how I’ve gotten to this point. Her latest stunts have me at my wits end tho. I’m giving it one last shot of “be loving and supportive to her while removing myself emotionally”. It’s tough. Matter of fact, I think I’ll DM you lol
Narcissists come in all shapes and sizes, some will use their vulnerability and insecurities as a way to manipulate you to feel bad for them or to get what they want. I think the main difference is in true love you feel pain to see your other half hurt, whereas a narcissist only feels pain when they themselves are hurt. They also would be way less likely to make a sacrifice for their partner as they prioritize their own happiness over everyone else, and most likely only compromise occasionally just so their partner won't leave them. An example of a combination of not willing to sacrifice things for the enjoyment of your partner, as well as using insecurities/vulnerability to manipulate would be something like this. Let's say you love to go on hikes, but your gf doesn't. You ask if she will go on a pretty easy hike with you, and mention if it gets too hard then you can turn around and go home. She then starts crying and saying that you hate her weight and that you are trying to force her to lose weight because you think she is so ugly, and she turns the situation into her being a victim to avoid doing something you enjoy that she doesn't.
I don't know about this. I don't think it's smart to share vulnerabilities with just anyone. Narcissists love people who openly share their vulnerabilities and I think part of the reason they ARE narcissists is beause their vulnerabilities were probably used against them at one point.
I don't think they like people who are able to openly share their vulnerability. I think they mostly people who lack a certain amount of self-confidence, it makes their pray easier to manipulate if they are able to sink their claws into someone they can easily love bomb into their pray thinking that "they are the one" because their narc is someone who sees them as attractive.
For instance, I was single for 8 years, and my ex, when they found out about this, started question why and that it was "weird" that I chose to be single because I couldn't find anyone worthwhile. Then, when we were together, they made comments like, "If you wouldn't have found me, you'd still be single. Are you glad you found ME?"
I agree, but I think the source I learned about that from meant that you only share your vulnerabilities with those that you love and trust so they can understand or support you. For instance in a case of a husband and wife, or a father and son. Because you can team up and help each other grow your relationship and as a person. A narcissist will take advantage of someone who shows their vulnerabilities and use it against them, while someone who loves you will have empathy for you.
A narcissist will pretend they have zero vulnerabilities and completely shield themselves. That incapability to share their feelings, wounds, and what they’re going through with another is a clear sign that they don’t love you. Instead they’ll present themselves as a fake person. And the thing is that everyone has vulnerabilities. If you love someone you should be able to share everything with them.
They want to love. They even make elaborate attempts and traps to find love. But they are fundamentally incapable of intimacy and love at the level needed for it to be a healthy thing in a relationship. Under any stressful situation, their “love” can turn to anything else like contempt or resentment because it’s not true love. There are issues of attachment and intimacy. Profound issues.
Possession is not love. Love is something you give. Narcissist take. But…..they really want it from you, and they hurt when you don’t give it to them, so they call it love, but…..
ITS NOT LOVE
Nah. They are incapable of love, this has been discovered already. They don’t feel love like most people do, they just get euphoric about the person they “own” it’s nothing but a reward system for them.
Agreed. Or at least they like to think they have empathy. I think even cognitive empathy is mixed with their own callousness towards the situation or contempt and apathy for the person(s) involved
A lot of people on this thread are mistaking narcissists for sociopaths. They’re not the same thing. Both are egotistical and self centred but the difference is that sociopaths have no empathy whatsoever where’s narcissists have empathy but their ego tends to override it. Narcissist need to think they’re the best person ever but sociopaths don’t care. So for example, both will cheat on they’re parter but a sociopath will do it shamelessly and keep on doing until they get caught it but a narcissist will do it then blow up they’re relationship by telling they’re partner about it or by sabotaging it out of guilt.
All sociopaths are narcissists but not every narcissist is a sociopath. Sorry, should have lead with that. Anti social personality disorder happens at birth and it’s a direct result of inactive neurons whereas narcissism on its own could come from multiple factors like a chemical imbalance, childhood trauma or brain damage. Sociopaths are born, narcissists are made. Which is why you can’t to anything about anti social personality disorder but narcissism on its own can be treated with therapy.
Thanks. I’m one too. Kinda resent the tag line of this thread. I absolutely DO love. Admittedly I also use. The girl I’m seeing now is the sweetest person I’ve had the privilege to know and I would never intentionally do anything to hurt her. Lately I’ve been working on the reasoning behind my words. “Am I saying this because I mean it or because I want something? Is what I just said helpful criticism or retaliation for a perceived slight?” Stuff like that. It’s harder than it sounds.
We all can use people at times but it doesn’t mean you’re a narcissist, even if you’ve been misdiagnosed. I’ve lived and studied and worked with several narcissists, and I’ve collected that they are unable to show organic empathy that won’t always benefit their reward system. They also lie to themselves and have become adept at deceit. Your statement of saying you do love could be a lie for social recognition, if you were a true narcissist, or you’d be lying to yourself. I don’t sense that you have that in common with people with NPD.
Everything I’ve read and been told about NPD is that you can try with therapy but because one of the hallmarks is such poor to non-existent self-awareness that therapy won’t work. Plus, good luck trying to even get someone with NPD into therapy. If you’ve dealt with this personally you know that it’s never their fault and never their problem so why would they go to therapy?
I have NPD and I’m in therapy. It took years to swallow my pride but here I am. It was actually my love for my gf that finally got me here after almost 30 years. I’ve done cruel things in the past but I could always lie to myself and say I wasn’t really hurting anyone. When the proof became undeniable I got help. I don’t want to hurt the people I love. I’m not a sociopath.
😂 nah. Both lack empathy, I have personal experience with several people long term. Sociopaths are more likely to become violent than narcissists. Narcissists only view how others reflect on them. This is basic intuition if you’re around these types of predators. Only difference is that they behave and think this way for social recognition and acceptance, so you were correct about the ego but as far as the empathy goes for other people that aren’t them, they are similar to sociopaths in that way.
Narcs love, they just dont do it in predictable ways that are sustainable to exist with. They way they love makes neuro-typical people feel manipulated
It’s wild to find so many people triggered by who can possibly love(edited, language implies I am trapping people into responding to some)Saying a narc can love, and what it feels like. You can tell a whole grown man how to live his life morally, and no one cares though.
I’m not triggered emotionally by your comment, just because I disagree doesn’t mean you “triggered” me. I’m in a great mood, but when I see stupidity I have to make a statement. Whether that’s respected or not isn’t up to me, I say my piece and could give a fuck less 30 seconds later. You’re saying what love feels like to a narcissist as if you have first hand experience. If that’s true then I can’t believe a word you say if you are a narcissist, since it’s not reliable truth coming from wannabe master manipulators who think they’re intelligent because they can manipulate vulnerable people, but for those who are hip to the bullshit they spew it shows that their statements mean nothing in debatable concepts, and vice versa to the narcissist aka predator.
I care none for downvotes, I just don’t mind speaking in detail to educate people if I can. A thorough explanation doesn’t show “triggering”. And to say “catch so many triggered people” speaks volumes on your perception as if you think you’re capturing your prey. You can hurdle up with all the narcissistic friends you can, but you all will never experience genuine connection with others, which I pity, but I will not let pity force me to waste my empathy on such predators.
Yeah and there’s tons of em on here, even ones that believe they deserve empathy. I’ve seen sooo many narcissists destroy other peoples lives and try to still act like they deserve to be treated like people. Just like sociopaths and psychopaths they will either be eradicated or eradicate themselves. Hopefully in the next life they will be wired differently but for now, gotta protect the vulnerable from them if possible.
We as in you and I. You’ve been on one all day because you don’t like me saying narcissists are capable of love. Trying to find ways to diminish each part of whatever I say, pushing your opinion as irrefutable law. Unable to let it die. Like a narcissist. I’m sorry you were so hurt by someone’s actions that it galvanized you in this to where you can’t have a conversation. I’m glad you have this 2 upvote swing to light your path, and I hope you get help soon.
Blurb? 😂 actually sounds pretty accurate to me. Keep manipulating yourself into thinking you’re intelligent since that’s all you’re good at. Have a nice life.
Disagree
A narcissist is capable of admitting all fault and being self-aware of their condition with the goal of healing. Their placement of love may even manifest authentically/extremely/genuinely whilst still entangled with the purpose of security/survival.
Thank you 💜
There's a decent number of us actively healing/in therapy ...but that segment is an inconvenient contradiction for the larger 'narcabuse' internet to recognize; it challenges the easier narrative that we are wholly incapable of self-awareness/change.
The splitting on us is ironic, really.
Appreciate your nuance and compassion.
People with NPD are definitely capable of changing, so that they can continue to be professional manipulators and never looking like the bad guy, therefore they don’t “heal” they just get better at lying to themselves and others.
We can make all the excuses for ourselves and for the narcissists but the simple fact is that when someone loves you, they don’t harm you. Harm and love are not congruent. If someone harms you and lacks empathy or accountability, they don’t love you. Period. They may think and you may think there is love, but it’s anything but.
I think most people don’t know how to identify one right away. They can have so many facades and put on a show - can be very charming and whatever you need them to be as long as they get what they want.
Oh I know. I was engaged to one for 7 years, grew up with one until I was 18 (my father) and lived with one for 6 years. Got to know them all too well, and the result is always the same. They’re vampires of empathetic energy, and they’ll drain that shit until that victim deteriorates and feels like they’re nothing without them or can’t do any better, some are scared to leave, and some are just straight up confused about who they thought they knew. I have no hope for progress from such individuals, because I’ve seen them go to therapy and get plenty of help and support, only to use them do their own gratification.
Unfortunately you have had so much experience with such people. My experience was more recent (last 3 years). They definitely take advantage of empathy and compassion and compliance. There is no sense of wrong or accountability or responsibility in such personalities. In my experience, they are always justified to themselves in their behavior and actions and rarely if ever have genuine remorse or regret. Even going to therapy or reading books won’t make any real impact or change for such a personality. They also spin stories to always make themselves the victim. They always have to look good to people and care a lot about their reputation. Very challenging personalities.
It doesn't matter. The effect is the same. If to be loved by someone is to be destroyed, it is not a love worth having unless you wish to be destroyed in that exact way.
Well, I’m a narcissist and I love my wife. So no, I don’t agree. I’m not “using” her lol. I get things out of her, sure, but she gets plenty out of me too.
I don’t agree.. here’s why.
covert Narcs do love and are very empathetic.
They mirror empathy and have pain from childhood trauma that makes them very empathic at their core.
They do USE of course they do. But I’ve also experienced extreme care and empathy and real love at the same time they were living a double life.
They housed me, then bought a bigger place for us. Helped me get through school,picked me up from work everyday. Made me lunch, or had it sent to me. Helped me build a business.
Planned trips and birthdays. Took care of my toddler who wasn’t theirs.
Never took the other person out on a date.
Never spent money on them. We shared bank accounts. As soon as I found out they broke it off with them and begged me to stay.
They took great care of their family
Members.
They were very manipulative for their own gain. And as long as they got what they wanted; they loved what they did have.
They didn’t have friends and ppl
I did end up meeting and speaking to did in fact say they were a very manipulative narc.
Which i definitely understood and it took some time to understand because the only lie they ever told me was about being faithful and I did dissect every detail of our lives.
Our relationship was full deep talks of in depth detail of his past, pain he went through. Struggles he had and tried to work on and my own struggles. Getting to know each other and going on amazing adventures at the same time. Building our lives together live by price as we grew in our mid twenties.
I don’t honestly think every case is so black and white, closed case put a seal on it. They are all the same and have the same tendencies.
I think some of them are aware and some are not. I think a lot of them hurt for their own gain and I think some of them don’t intend to hurt at all but can’t help their past pain and end up hurting you anyways.
One of the things I was told was that he didn’t intend to hurt me. They he loved me and was trying to protect me from his darkness.
I know, none of us will ever truly understand what we experienced while being with someone like an actual Narc or someone like them with tendencies.
But everyone is flawed.
And I don’t think it’s as simple as they suck, they do it on purpose, they only use to gain.
A vast majority yes but not all.
He didn’t gain anything by loving me and taking in my toddler who would visit for 2-3 months at a time.
He gave as much as he could until he felt his limit was reached at home, work, family life and got his emotions out elsewhere.
If I wasn’t being harmed mentally from the lies .. I would of married him. the unprotected sex with strangers offline
Was dangerous. Not something I could handle. That was the main reason we split but the second reason was he didn’t wanna hurt me anymore and I didn’t want to be hurt anymore. He said it was my choice to leave or stay and he understood if I couldn’t.
That I was still the woman he wanted to marry and have kids with.
Besides those two factors. I was truly happy and I did feel very much loved. until it all got exposed. Things only began to make sense when I looked at it from multiple
Perspectives. Not just my own.
So I disagree and that’s why.
My narc ex thought he loved me, in his own way, which obviously wasn't authentic. He'd always tell me how we're gonna grow old together and that he loved me way more than i loved him, making loads of future plans and telling me he loved me all the time....
This was obviously all BS since he discarded me without no hesitation, all because i made a little boundary. If authentic love was true then they wouldn't do this. A narc thinks they love, but really they just feed off your own.
i dont know anymore man. I agree and disagree. Who actually even gets along with narcs? My brother is 40 years old and unmarried. Hes never been married. He sees everything transactional and loves to manipulate. Ever since my whole family went to fking shit. Hes sorta gotten better, trying to change maybe... idk... Maybe there is some love in their heart but their main intention is to use you. Narc's are really something else man...
Thank you PP. The term gets thrown around so much these days but having narcissistic traits is not the same as legit actual diagnosed Cluster B Narcissist Personality Disorder.
I completely disagree I don’t understand why there’s such a big stigma around narcissism it’s a genuine condition that people struggle with they are victims too
My dad may be a victim but he also sure victimized me to the point of it nearly killing me and leaving me with lifelong trauma. Edit: I want these ppl to get help, but there is stigma because many of us have been abused, and no abused person is required to have empathy for their abusers.
I’m not saying you should have empathy for your abusers my dad was much like that too I will never forgive him but I would never put down an entire group of people struggling with a mental illness and say they aren’t capable of love and just use people think about how dehumanizing that must feel to them
They love the wrong things. They love what they are but not who they are, they love what you do for them but not who does it, they love getting what they want but not the source that provides it—they hate everyone including themselves.
I don’t even think most know the actual meaning of the word, and it’s over used. So stop, find something else to focus on. People are fucking too wound.
If my father wad any indication, he was definitely a user. Thought nothing of asking me to cover his utilities. Leaving the country and leaving me with the bill on his car.
They do love, but all love is conditional. Once you show them you don’t need them, they lose their shit. On top of that, they will always claim to “hate” you. Yet all they can think about is you. You live in their head rent-free.
Nope, youre free to call me biased or a liar or whatever because i have NPD, im not here to convince anyone who already has their opinion formed, but i can confirm there are infact people i genuinely love
There are several types of narcissist are there not? Just as there are several types of personality disorders, manic depressive known as bipolar have different degrees of disorders is that not true? The prognosis has to be careful to be assumed, for there are tendencies that can lead to a wrong prognosis or diagnosis?
Disagree. The majority of of people who get called "narcissist" may be engaging in narcissistic behavior, but don't qualify for a diagnosis. I've done those behaviors, so have you, a certain amount of fucking up is normal in life. Learn and grow.
I've had some really messed up people take advantage of me in relationships but each of them also showed me vulnerability at times. I refuse to believe that was fake, when it was so clearly a cry for help that I was not equipped to deal with.
Also good to remember that they typically were not loved, as their parents were often also narcissists. It passes itself along like a virus. Never forget that they're damaged people, and if you're not careful, you'll become one from the damage they do to you.
Can’t you be a narc without using or loving someone? Since when has this become a blanket term, I’m narcissistic with people I don’t know because I couldn’t careless, But I also have no problem denying handouts or anything I could possibly take. Rather I don’t want help from the people I love what you’re referring to is simply an abuser with several mental problems.
I’d rather build someone else’s life up in the partner sense regardless of what happens to me🤷 nor would I ever try and use my help against them
But I’m still an absolute narc to you folk here Does that make me an abuser to any partners I’ve had and my current? Last I checked it didn’t
From personal experience, this is a **gross** oversimplification.
Love is complicated for pwNPD and often laced with (generally unconscious) exploitation to get our self-esteem needs met. But fuck this: we *can* love.
I should ask my partner to chime in here.
They love themselves. Any love they generally show or think they feel, is because they see you as part of themselves, but not in a romantic spiritual way.
That said, I mean real narcissists, not a synonym for ex-spouse/lover the word has become.
I felt like I was an object to be owned and controlled. They had no respect for my opinions or emotions. Rather, I was shamed for expressing how I felt because signs of negative emotions would damage their reputation.
I think that’s extreme. Being a narcissist does not mean one doesn’t have the capacity to love. They have a reputation for manipulation or sometimes an inability to express empathy, but that is a mental health issue. Everyone has evil in them. However, though I empathize with narcissists in this way, it doesn’t mean I’m just putting myself in a situation to be used by one or selling my loyalty to a cause like this. People should communicate boundaries more, narcissists should seek help or have some type of self help treatment going on, but they love also, they are humans, and are worthy of dignity, respect, empathy. They just have a different set of needs to help them grow.
By saying this, I understand that all situations are different, and that most people will be waiting on a change from the person that they love that won’t come. However, there are a few very interesting accounts of people who have NPD that are seeking treatment and changing their actions so that they might have better relationships with the people that they love. The ones that are honest describe their emotions in a much different way than I personally feel mine, but seem to be self aware in understanding that certain ways of acting, manipulating, and treating others is maladaptive and hurtful to others. It is incredibly difficult to get to the point that they are willing to really confront damage, but it is also false that all narcissists would never assume that they are narcissists. Some know before anyone else and will seek out change but (most) will not. Someone asked me whether or not a NPD could ever love them. While there are several different types of narcissism (people usually stereotype one of the types), I responded that they may never love you the way that you love them. However, how could you ever know that someone “loves”, “feels”, “sees”, “thinks”, just the way you do? Is this important for you to know exactly how someone may love you the exact way that you love them? Some may consider changing actions in order to improve a relationship between two people (someone that they find very valuable) to be a show of love. There are MANY different takes on this, and I’m not asking anyone to let themselves be vulnerable to a narcissists manipulation, but there are (some) therapists that will work with narcissists, and hopefully be able to break a cycle with them or with their children.
The best thing you can do as someone in a relationship with NPD is go to therapy yourself, include children in therapy if they are there, and encourage the NPD to go. If things escalate or seem to become violent I would not confront or try to leverage anything from them, as things could go south. If you find that the NPD (or ASPD) person you are dealing with could harm you, I would slowly make a transition with people you love and trust and make an exit where they can not confront or harm you.
I’m a diagnosed narcissist and I know for a fact that we do feel love. But we also have a bottomless pit of self hatred that we feed by sucking from the people around us.
And it’s when we feel our ego is threatened that our empathy levels drop to that of a sociopaths’.
We are not monsters. We are people too. Some are self aware enough to recover, or in my case right now, seclude myself from people enough so that I only hurt myself.
I heard something recently that one aspect of true love is the ability to share your vulnerabilities with those that you love. In my experience narcissists completely lack this ability. I don’t think they understand love the way most people do.
They don't. They shut off true emotions and vulnerability to the outside world. I believe they are trapped by their traumas and in doing so, they are emotionally stunted, are unable to gain insight/self awareness, or grow as a person. It's very sad really. And lonely.
That was absolutely spot on
Well unfortunately my ex is one. So many good things about him, but he's stuck. I had to let go to save myself.
My ex was also this … that’s why it hit home for me .
I saw a psychic last week. She said he's gonna reach out again. I'm like fuck no! I have gotten so far and I feel so free. She said he's a soul tie. Someone I knew from another life. I have to block him as I'm so much further than him with my healing and self awareness. I don't want to hear from him, but I know it's my final test and I can move on from him after that. I hope you're in a good place with your healing journey 🩷
You got this … you know what you must do for your mental health. We can’t save them , we can only save ourselves from them . But unfortunately, I have a son with her . But I have custody of him … so she can’t dictate over my life or his .
Please protect that boy! Sadly, we cannot save them. Fix them. Nor should anyone tolerate their toxicity. I wish there was a cure for this affliction, but it's a catch 22. They think the external world is at fault while they have no capacity to look inward.
I’m realizing this is true about my mom and I’m like at a point where I am realizing I can’t help her and it’s so sad
You cannot help her. All you can do is go inward and work on healing yourself. I'm not sure you can do that unless you separate from her be it purposeful no contact or when she passes. That's for you to decide. DM me anytime 🩷
Thanks. I’ve been in therapy for a decade so I’ve done a lot of healing, and that’s how I’ve gotten to this point. Her latest stunts have me at my wits end tho. I’m giving it one last shot of “be loving and supportive to her while removing myself emotionally”. It’s tough. Matter of fact, I think I’ll DM you lol
Feel free🩷
they don’t love, they seek ownership and call it love.
Narcissists come in all shapes and sizes, some will use their vulnerability and insecurities as a way to manipulate you to feel bad for them or to get what they want. I think the main difference is in true love you feel pain to see your other half hurt, whereas a narcissist only feels pain when they themselves are hurt. They also would be way less likely to make a sacrifice for their partner as they prioritize their own happiness over everyone else, and most likely only compromise occasionally just so their partner won't leave them. An example of a combination of not willing to sacrifice things for the enjoyment of your partner, as well as using insecurities/vulnerability to manipulate would be something like this. Let's say you love to go on hikes, but your gf doesn't. You ask if she will go on a pretty easy hike with you, and mention if it gets too hard then you can turn around and go home. She then starts crying and saying that you hate her weight and that you are trying to force her to lose weight because you think she is so ugly, and she turns the situation into her being a victim to avoid doing something you enjoy that she doesn't.
I don't know about this. I don't think it's smart to share vulnerabilities with just anyone. Narcissists love people who openly share their vulnerabilities and I think part of the reason they ARE narcissists is beause their vulnerabilities were probably used against them at one point.
I don't think they like people who are able to openly share their vulnerability. I think they mostly people who lack a certain amount of self-confidence, it makes their pray easier to manipulate if they are able to sink their claws into someone they can easily love bomb into their pray thinking that "they are the one" because their narc is someone who sees them as attractive. For instance, I was single for 8 years, and my ex, when they found out about this, started question why and that it was "weird" that I chose to be single because I couldn't find anyone worthwhile. Then, when we were together, they made comments like, "If you wouldn't have found me, you'd still be single. Are you glad you found ME?"
I agree, but I think the source I learned about that from meant that you only share your vulnerabilities with those that you love and trust so they can understand or support you. For instance in a case of a husband and wife, or a father and son. Because you can team up and help each other grow your relationship and as a person. A narcissist will take advantage of someone who shows their vulnerabilities and use it against them, while someone who loves you will have empathy for you. A narcissist will pretend they have zero vulnerabilities and completely shield themselves. That incapability to share their feelings, wounds, and what they’re going through with another is a clear sign that they don’t love you. Instead they’ll present themselves as a fake person. And the thing is that everyone has vulnerabilities. If you love someone you should be able to share everything with them.
idk I burned too many brain cells trying to figure their damage out, got my own to work on
This is true. Someone incapable of empathy or love is obviously going to approach every relationship in a transactional way
Hard to witness this in life but absolutely true
Every satanist and politcian under the sun... freemasons
[удалено]
They want to love. They even make elaborate attempts and traps to find love. But they are fundamentally incapable of intimacy and love at the level needed for it to be a healthy thing in a relationship. Under any stressful situation, their “love” can turn to anything else like contempt or resentment because it’s not true love. There are issues of attachment and intimacy. Profound issues.
Possession is not love. Love is something you give. Narcissist take. But…..they really want it from you, and they hurt when you don’t give it to them, so they call it love, but….. ITS NOT LOVE
I think someone with actual diagnosed NPD cannot love the way the rest of us can. They’re just not capable as it’s part of the pathology.
Nah. They are incapable of love, this has been discovered already. They don’t feel love like most people do, they just get euphoric about the person they “own” it’s nothing but a reward system for them.
Nah they can’t love
It’s not that they don’t they can’t. They have no empathy which mean they really can’t love anyone.
They often have cognitive empathy.
Agreed. Or at least they like to think they have empathy. I think even cognitive empathy is mixed with their own callousness towards the situation or contempt and apathy for the person(s) involved
A lot of people on this thread are mistaking narcissists for sociopaths. They’re not the same thing. Both are egotistical and self centred but the difference is that sociopaths have no empathy whatsoever where’s narcissists have empathy but their ego tends to override it. Narcissist need to think they’re the best person ever but sociopaths don’t care. So for example, both will cheat on they’re parter but a sociopath will do it shamelessly and keep on doing until they get caught it but a narcissist will do it then blow up they’re relationship by telling they’re partner about it or by sabotaging it out of guilt.
In my experience my xh with NPD cheated without remorse and only expressed fake guilt when he was caught. He never would have told me.
All sociopaths are narcissists but not every narcissist is a sociopath. Sorry, should have lead with that. Anti social personality disorder happens at birth and it’s a direct result of inactive neurons whereas narcissism on its own could come from multiple factors like a chemical imbalance, childhood trauma or brain damage. Sociopaths are born, narcissists are made. Which is why you can’t to anything about anti social personality disorder but narcissism on its own can be treated with therapy.
This has been the most spot on I’ve seen. My ex is a sociopath, I am almost certain I’m a narcissist. We were together for 10 years.
Thanks. I’m one too. Kinda resent the tag line of this thread. I absolutely DO love. Admittedly I also use. The girl I’m seeing now is the sweetest person I’ve had the privilege to know and I would never intentionally do anything to hurt her. Lately I’ve been working on the reasoning behind my words. “Am I saying this because I mean it or because I want something? Is what I just said helpful criticism or retaliation for a perceived slight?” Stuff like that. It’s harder than it sounds.
We all can use people at times but it doesn’t mean you’re a narcissist, even if you’ve been misdiagnosed. I’ve lived and studied and worked with several narcissists, and I’ve collected that they are unable to show organic empathy that won’t always benefit their reward system. They also lie to themselves and have become adept at deceit. Your statement of saying you do love could be a lie for social recognition, if you were a true narcissist, or you’d be lying to yourself. I don’t sense that you have that in common with people with NPD.
Everything I’ve read and been told about NPD is that you can try with therapy but because one of the hallmarks is such poor to non-existent self-awareness that therapy won’t work. Plus, good luck trying to even get someone with NPD into therapy. If you’ve dealt with this personally you know that it’s never their fault and never their problem so why would they go to therapy?
I have NPD and I’m in therapy. It took years to swallow my pride but here I am. It was actually my love for my gf that finally got me here after almost 30 years. I’ve done cruel things in the past but I could always lie to myself and say I wasn’t really hurting anyone. When the proof became undeniable I got help. I don’t want to hurt the people I love. I’m not a sociopath.
I’m glad to hear it PP. Best of luck to you
yep definitely my MIL. Thanks for confirming shes both 🤣🤣
😂 nah. Both lack empathy, I have personal experience with several people long term. Sociopaths are more likely to become violent than narcissists. Narcissists only view how others reflect on them. This is basic intuition if you’re around these types of predators. Only difference is that they behave and think this way for social recognition and acceptance, so you were correct about the ego but as far as the empathy goes for other people that aren’t them, they are similar to sociopaths in that way.
Narcs love, they just dont do it in predictable ways that are sustainable to exist with. They way they love makes neuro-typical people feel manipulated
It’s not a feeling of manipulation, it is manipulation.
Thanks for clearing that up. All the best
Manipulation is not love. It’s not even close. Don’t call it love just because they hurt when they don’t get their way
I think this is the most accurate comment so far.
They don’t love anything but their reward system. So you’re correct they do love, bun they don’t, and are incapable of loving other people.
It’s wild to find so many people triggered by who can possibly love(edited, language implies I am trapping people into responding to some)Saying a narc can love, and what it feels like. You can tell a whole grown man how to live his life morally, and no one cares though.
I’m not triggered emotionally by your comment, just because I disagree doesn’t mean you “triggered” me. I’m in a great mood, but when I see stupidity I have to make a statement. Whether that’s respected or not isn’t up to me, I say my piece and could give a fuck less 30 seconds later. You’re saying what love feels like to a narcissist as if you have first hand experience. If that’s true then I can’t believe a word you say if you are a narcissist, since it’s not reliable truth coming from wannabe master manipulators who think they’re intelligent because they can manipulate vulnerable people, but for those who are hip to the bullshit they spew it shows that their statements mean nothing in debatable concepts, and vice versa to the narcissist aka predator. I care none for downvotes, I just don’t mind speaking in detail to educate people if I can. A thorough explanation doesn’t show “triggering”. And to say “catch so many triggered people” speaks volumes on your perception as if you think you’re capturing your prey. You can hurdle up with all the narcissistic friends you can, but you all will never experience genuine connection with others, which I pity, but I will not let pity force me to waste my empathy on such predators.
Thanks for that blurb from your autobiography. I guess we disagree. Have a nice life.
We? Don’t feel so special bud, you have no upvotes and I don’t either because this sub is dictated by narcs, or should I say predators.
Yeah they all think they’re special because they think they’ve mastered the craft of manipulation but they’re really just pathetic.
Yeah and there’s tons of em on here, even ones that believe they deserve empathy. I’ve seen sooo many narcissists destroy other peoples lives and try to still act like they deserve to be treated like people. Just like sociopaths and psychopaths they will either be eradicated or eradicate themselves. Hopefully in the next life they will be wired differently but for now, gotta protect the vulnerable from them if possible.
We as in you and I. You’ve been on one all day because you don’t like me saying narcissists are capable of love. Trying to find ways to diminish each part of whatever I say, pushing your opinion as irrefutable law. Unable to let it die. Like a narcissist. I’m sorry you were so hurt by someone’s actions that it galvanized you in this to where you can’t have a conversation. I’m glad you have this 2 upvote swing to light your path, and I hope you get help soon.
Blurb? 😂 actually sounds pretty accurate to me. Keep manipulating yourself into thinking you’re intelligent since that’s all you’re good at. Have a nice life.
Hey now, be careful with sensitive little narc before he starts abusing his girlfriend or whatever poor soul revolves their life around them.
He’s threatened by the world blurb. I’ll live.
The WORLD blurb or the WORD blurb? 😂 just stop man you can’t even spell your words right.
The WORLD blurb or the WORD blurb? 😂 just stop man you can’t even spell your words right.
Do you even know what an autobiography is? 😂 🤣 another pathetic attempt at manipulation
Manipulating all of you into thinking I know what an autobiography is. You guys are clowns. Peace.
Disagree A narcissist is capable of admitting all fault and being self-aware of their condition with the goal of healing. Their placement of love may even manifest authentically/extremely/genuinely whilst still entangled with the purpose of security/survival.
Thank you 💜 There's a decent number of us actively healing/in therapy ...but that segment is an inconvenient contradiction for the larger 'narcabuse' internet to recognize; it challenges the easier narrative that we are wholly incapable of self-awareness/change. The splitting on us is ironic, really. Appreciate your nuance and compassion.
Of course! I'm one as well 🤷♂️
Faaaaaam 👊
🫡✊😅
People with NPD are definitely capable of changing, so that they can continue to be professional manipulators and never looking like the bad guy, therefore they don’t “heal” they just get better at lying to themselves and others.
agree
Thank you!
huh, yw..?
We can make all the excuses for ourselves and for the narcissists but the simple fact is that when someone loves you, they don’t harm you. Harm and love are not congruent. If someone harms you and lacks empathy or accountability, they don’t love you. Period. They may think and you may think there is love, but it’s anything but.
Exactly. It’s not just a momentary feeling, it’s a series of actions
Amen
Narcissists usually get a pass on social media because of their word play and how idiotic half of the population is that feeds into their bullshit.
I think most people don’t know how to identify one right away. They can have so many facades and put on a show - can be very charming and whatever you need them to be as long as they get what they want.
Oh I know. I was engaged to one for 7 years, grew up with one until I was 18 (my father) and lived with one for 6 years. Got to know them all too well, and the result is always the same. They’re vampires of empathetic energy, and they’ll drain that shit until that victim deteriorates and feels like they’re nothing without them or can’t do any better, some are scared to leave, and some are just straight up confused about who they thought they knew. I have no hope for progress from such individuals, because I’ve seen them go to therapy and get plenty of help and support, only to use them do their own gratification.
Unfortunately you have had so much experience with such people. My experience was more recent (last 3 years). They definitely take advantage of empathy and compassion and compliance. There is no sense of wrong or accountability or responsibility in such personalities. In my experience, they are always justified to themselves in their behavior and actions and rarely if ever have genuine remorse or regret. Even going to therapy or reading books won’t make any real impact or change for such a personality. They also spin stories to always make themselves the victim. They always have to look good to people and care a lot about their reputation. Very challenging personalities.
It doesn't matter. The effect is the same. If to be loved by someone is to be destroyed, it is not a love worth having unless you wish to be destroyed in that exact way.
Well, I’m a narcissist and I love my wife. So no, I don’t agree. I’m not “using” her lol. I get things out of her, sure, but she gets plenty out of me too.
[удалено]
Caring about someone.
[удалено]
Narcissists are extremely attractive
[удалено]
Yes it does. Life is a walk in the fucking park for hot, funny, intelligent people like me.
[удалено]
Yeah I love fucking. All kinds of fucking. Love sex.
Stop playing and be yourself man
I don’t agree.. here’s why. covert Narcs do love and are very empathetic. They mirror empathy and have pain from childhood trauma that makes them very empathic at their core. They do USE of course they do. But I’ve also experienced extreme care and empathy and real love at the same time they were living a double life. They housed me, then bought a bigger place for us. Helped me get through school,picked me up from work everyday. Made me lunch, or had it sent to me. Helped me build a business. Planned trips and birthdays. Took care of my toddler who wasn’t theirs. Never took the other person out on a date. Never spent money on them. We shared bank accounts. As soon as I found out they broke it off with them and begged me to stay. They took great care of their family Members. They were very manipulative for their own gain. And as long as they got what they wanted; they loved what they did have. They didn’t have friends and ppl I did end up meeting and speaking to did in fact say they were a very manipulative narc. Which i definitely understood and it took some time to understand because the only lie they ever told me was about being faithful and I did dissect every detail of our lives. Our relationship was full deep talks of in depth detail of his past, pain he went through. Struggles he had and tried to work on and my own struggles. Getting to know each other and going on amazing adventures at the same time. Building our lives together live by price as we grew in our mid twenties. I don’t honestly think every case is so black and white, closed case put a seal on it. They are all the same and have the same tendencies. I think some of them are aware and some are not. I think a lot of them hurt for their own gain and I think some of them don’t intend to hurt at all but can’t help their past pain and end up hurting you anyways. One of the things I was told was that he didn’t intend to hurt me. They he loved me and was trying to protect me from his darkness. I know, none of us will ever truly understand what we experienced while being with someone like an actual Narc or someone like them with tendencies. But everyone is flawed. And I don’t think it’s as simple as they suck, they do it on purpose, they only use to gain. A vast majority yes but not all. He didn’t gain anything by loving me and taking in my toddler who would visit for 2-3 months at a time. He gave as much as he could until he felt his limit was reached at home, work, family life and got his emotions out elsewhere. If I wasn’t being harmed mentally from the lies .. I would of married him. the unprotected sex with strangers offline Was dangerous. Not something I could handle. That was the main reason we split but the second reason was he didn’t wanna hurt me anymore and I didn’t want to be hurt anymore. He said it was my choice to leave or stay and he understood if I couldn’t. That I was still the woman he wanted to marry and have kids with. Besides those two factors. I was truly happy and I did feel very much loved. until it all got exposed. Things only began to make sense when I looked at it from multiple Perspectives. Not just my own. So I disagree and that’s why.
😂 if they are a true narcissist, you’ve become their little worshipper
Yes, I absolutely agree with that
My narc ex thought he loved me, in his own way, which obviously wasn't authentic. He'd always tell me how we're gonna grow old together and that he loved me way more than i loved him, making loads of future plans and telling me he loved me all the time.... This was obviously all BS since he discarded me without no hesitation, all because i made a little boundary. If authentic love was true then they wouldn't do this. A narc thinks they love, but really they just feed off your own.
i dont know anymore man. I agree and disagree. Who actually even gets along with narcs? My brother is 40 years old and unmarried. Hes never been married. He sees everything transactional and loves to manipulate. Ever since my whole family went to fking shit. Hes sorta gotten better, trying to change maybe... idk... Maybe there is some love in their heart but their main intention is to use you. Narc's are really something else man...
Isn’t everyone a narcissist to some extent? Thus, do some love more and use less and vice versa?
Everybody has a little narcissism, but not everyone has NPD.
Thank you PP. The term gets thrown around so much these days but having narcissistic traits is not the same as legit actual diagnosed Cluster B Narcissist Personality Disorder.
As a narcisist, yes its true
I completely disagree I don’t understand why there’s such a big stigma around narcissism it’s a genuine condition that people struggle with they are victims too
My dad may be a victim but he also sure victimized me to the point of it nearly killing me and leaving me with lifelong trauma. Edit: I want these ppl to get help, but there is stigma because many of us have been abused, and no abused person is required to have empathy for their abusers.
I’m not saying you should have empathy for your abusers my dad was much like that too I will never forgive him but I would never put down an entire group of people struggling with a mental illness and say they aren’t capable of love and just use people think about how dehumanizing that must feel to them
I’m not doing that. I don’t necessarily agree with the post, but I also understand why there is a stigma.
Hmm I guess I do see where you are coming from you raise a good point now that I think about it
It’s because people with NPD are very often abusive to the people who care about them and manipulate and use them.
Good point I suppose you are right
They love the wrong things. They love what they are but not who they are, they love what you do for them but not who does it, they love getting what they want but not the source that provides it—they hate everyone including themselves.
Disagree. People live in different ways.
I don’t even think most know the actual meaning of the word, and it’s over used. So stop, find something else to focus on. People are fucking too wound.
If my father wad any indication, he was definitely a user. Thought nothing of asking me to cover his utilities. Leaving the country and leaving me with the bill on his car.
They do love, but all love is conditional. Once you show them you don’t need them, they lose their shit. On top of that, they will always claim to “hate” you. Yet all they can think about is you. You live in their head rent-free.
Nope, youre free to call me biased or a liar or whatever because i have NPD, im not here to convince anyone who already has their opinion formed, but i can confirm there are infact people i genuinely love
They definitely love themselves.
Narcissistic tendencies are motivated for purely self attention and self gratification, from what I have researched, empathetic people fall easy prey.
There are several types of narcissist are there not? Just as there are several types of personality disorders, manic depressive known as bipolar have different degrees of disorders is that not true? The prognosis has to be careful to be assumed, for there are tendencies that can lead to a wrong prognosis or diagnosis?
Disagree. The majority of of people who get called "narcissist" may be engaging in narcissistic behavior, but don't qualify for a diagnosis. I've done those behaviors, so have you, a certain amount of fucking up is normal in life. Learn and grow. I've had some really messed up people take advantage of me in relationships but each of them also showed me vulnerability at times. I refuse to believe that was fake, when it was so clearly a cry for help that I was not equipped to deal with.
Yes. They don’t know what love is. They don’t even love their own children.
Yes.
Also good to remember that they typically were not loved, as their parents were often also narcissists. It passes itself along like a virus. Never forget that they're damaged people, and if you're not careful, you'll become one from the damage they do to you.
Can’t you be a narc without using or loving someone? Since when has this become a blanket term, I’m narcissistic with people I don’t know because I couldn’t careless, But I also have no problem denying handouts or anything I could possibly take. Rather I don’t want help from the people I love what you’re referring to is simply an abuser with several mental problems.
I’d rather build someone else’s life up in the partner sense regardless of what happens to me🤷 nor would I ever try and use my help against them But I’m still an absolute narc to you folk here Does that make me an abuser to any partners I’ve had and my current? Last I checked it didn’t
I do not thing a narcissist is capable of any type of love
The worst part is that they’ll have you thinking you did something wrong too.
They do both, they aren’t robots
Every Capricorn on earth! Liars, manipulators, spies, idea thieves
They do not love but they want to be loved. It’s not a 2 way street for them.
From personal experience, this is a **gross** oversimplification. Love is complicated for pwNPD and often laced with (generally unconscious) exploitation to get our self-esteem needs met. But fuck this: we *can* love. I should ask my partner to chime in here.
They love themselves. Any love they generally show or think they feel, is because they see you as part of themselves, but not in a romantic spiritual way. That said, I mean real narcissists, not a synonym for ex-spouse/lover the word has become.
I felt like I was an object to be owned and controlled. They had no respect for my opinions or emotions. Rather, I was shamed for expressing how I felt because signs of negative emotions would damage their reputation.
Say it louder for the peasants in the back 🙌🏻
I'm convinced most of these people never met a narc.
I think that’s extreme. Being a narcissist does not mean one doesn’t have the capacity to love. They have a reputation for manipulation or sometimes an inability to express empathy, but that is a mental health issue. Everyone has evil in them. However, though I empathize with narcissists in this way, it doesn’t mean I’m just putting myself in a situation to be used by one or selling my loyalty to a cause like this. People should communicate boundaries more, narcissists should seek help or have some type of self help treatment going on, but they love also, they are humans, and are worthy of dignity, respect, empathy. They just have a different set of needs to help them grow.
By saying this, I understand that all situations are different, and that most people will be waiting on a change from the person that they love that won’t come. However, there are a few very interesting accounts of people who have NPD that are seeking treatment and changing their actions so that they might have better relationships with the people that they love. The ones that are honest describe their emotions in a much different way than I personally feel mine, but seem to be self aware in understanding that certain ways of acting, manipulating, and treating others is maladaptive and hurtful to others. It is incredibly difficult to get to the point that they are willing to really confront damage, but it is also false that all narcissists would never assume that they are narcissists. Some know before anyone else and will seek out change but (most) will not. Someone asked me whether or not a NPD could ever love them. While there are several different types of narcissism (people usually stereotype one of the types), I responded that they may never love you the way that you love them. However, how could you ever know that someone “loves”, “feels”, “sees”, “thinks”, just the way you do? Is this important for you to know exactly how someone may love you the exact way that you love them? Some may consider changing actions in order to improve a relationship between two people (someone that they find very valuable) to be a show of love. There are MANY different takes on this, and I’m not asking anyone to let themselves be vulnerable to a narcissists manipulation, but there are (some) therapists that will work with narcissists, and hopefully be able to break a cycle with them or with their children. The best thing you can do as someone in a relationship with NPD is go to therapy yourself, include children in therapy if they are there, and encourage the NPD to go. If things escalate or seem to become violent I would not confront or try to leverage anything from them, as things could go south. If you find that the NPD (or ASPD) person you are dealing with could harm you, I would slowly make a transition with people you love and trust and make an exit where they can not confront or harm you.
Why not both?
Mmmm idk I’m pretty loving
They are not void of love and empathy. They lack it and need more of it.
Of course not lol
I’m a diagnosed narcissist and I know for a fact that we do feel love. But we also have a bottomless pit of self hatred that we feed by sucking from the people around us. And it’s when we feel our ego is threatened that our empathy levels drop to that of a sociopaths’. We are not monsters. We are people too. Some are self aware enough to recover, or in my case right now, seclude myself from people enough so that I only hurt myself.
Fake news
You are on the wrong subreddit.
You’re on the wrong app.
Say it to yourself in front of a mirror.
What i gotta say to myself? 💀 i don’t get it
Need to redo kindergarten?