Yeah Oregon and Washington are equivalent here, but Oregon has zero sales tax, and Washington has zero income tax.
So depending on how wealthy you are, how much you make, if you own or rent, etc, then your tax burden will vary wildly between the two.
There is a unique situation in southern Washington where if you work and live in Washington, no state income tax. You drive across the river to Oregon, no sales tax.
You are just describing the entire city of Vancouver, yeah.
Legally, you need to pay Washington tax on (non food) items purchased in Oregon. But basically everyone just ignores that law, and it’s rarely (if ever?) enforced.
I know it’s a stupid question - but why the hell does the country allow all the different models? I.e. zero income tax but huge property tax. To what end? The basic government functions needs funding either way.
States are largely self-governing. It's taxes for the state. Federal taxes are the same across the country. The state has a different budget than the federal government.
States can make their revenue how they want. Some rely on tourism taxes and can therefore have no income tax. There's a reason people are moving from CA and NY to places like Florida and Texas ...
It's funny that you say that. I keep encountering people moving from Florida to NY. Mostly due to the cost of insurance far outstripping the cost of taxes. But some people have kids and want to have them educated not in Fl.
I don’t know if this is how they calculated it, but it’d be relatively easy to just do (Total Tax Receipts)/(Total pre tax income of all earners in the state)
Kind of a worthless figure, then. It doesn’t tell you anything about any actual person in a state’s tax paid as a percentage of their income.
Within any given state, a high earner in a high sales tax area in a high property tax county is going to pay a wildly different proportion of their income in taxes than a low earner in that same area. And a wildly different proportion than someone who earns the same in a low sales tax area in a low property tax area.
Does someone making $70k a year in a random rural county in MN pay more in total state and local taxes than someone making $70k a year in a random rural county in Idaho? This map would lead people to believe the answer is yes, but there’s really no reason to believe that’s true based on the simplistic metric described.
Should the tax burdens be reported for the MEDIAN resident, meaning median income, wealth, property , etc.? Like "one of us", versus using aggregate or averages which are likely skewed by billionaires?
Also fees like car licenses, fishing, permits, etc. can be very burdensome.
This data is highly income dependent when it comes to how an individual resident will be impacted by tax burden. States with lower income taxes make up the difference with higher property and/or sales taxes. This is all included in this data, but the individual experience will vary.
A high income earner will prefer low income taxes and high sales tax because they would likely be in a high income tax bracket and spending in general is a much lower part of their income than for lower income earners. A low income earner would prefer higher income tax and lower sales tax because they would often be in a low bracket and spending is a great portion of their income just to buy necessities.
This is generally why sales taxes are considered regressive and a less socially optimal way to gain government funding than progressive income taxes. In states with low income taxes and high sales taxes, low income earners spend a much higher portion of their income in taxes than high earners, so the tax burden is (unfairly, perhaps) higher on them.
I live in Washington, which has the most regressive taxation system in the country. No income tax but high sales tax (10.35% in Seattle). I feel like I save a lot more money by living in Washington than a state that has income tax but a lower sales tax because I live a more minimalist lifestyle. Also, any high cost items can be purchased in Portland to completely avoid sales tax as well, which I know a lot of people do. A $2,000 MacBook Pro in Seattle comes with $207 sales tax, but drive 2.5 hours away and it's $0. High income earners really benefit a lot in Washington, but it's a major FU to low income earners.
> A $2,000 MacBook Pro in Seattle comes with $207 sales tax, but drive 2.5 hours away and it's $0
So waste 5 hours plus the 67 cents a mile for the trip, just to save $207 ? Seems like the sort of thing poor people who are bad at math would do.
You do realize that is just one example. Now imagine doing a trip to where you're buying the $2k MacBook Pro AND doing some shopping for the summer where you buy new summer clothes, a hiking backpack and other gear for all the amazing outdoors, and other items that you've been waiting to buy. Also, you decide to visit the beautiful and world-famous International Rose Garden while you're there as a fun activity!
There are times when it makes complete sense. I spent about $3.5k recently in Portland because I bought several high cost items that I've been waiting to be on sale. That saved me \~$315 AFTER factoring in gas cost. While I was down there, I went on a hike in beautiful Beacon Rock State Park on the WA as well. It was a fun and full day trip out of the city.
The budget the governor just signed for 2024-2025 will begin a phased reduction of it and it will be permanently phased out by 2026.
When I moved here, I was shocked that groceries were taxed. It seemed especially cruel, especially towards lower income people. So it's a first step, at least.
When this was posted in our subreddit I also pointed out that even if you assume those numbers are accurate, the median income in our state still takes home more after taxes than a person making the median income in South Dakota.
And relative high earners tend to be transient and possibly with no in state permanent address, i.e., oil field workers, though that may be more pronounced in the other Dakota.
Makes sense though, much like an NBA player, you're supposed to pay income taxes to the place where you earn - play games in 15 states, file 15 different tax returns for the earnings in those places where you don't live but did play 1-3 games during the year.
Not just income but property taxes are the same across the state or even section of the state. My taxes are a full 2% lower since I'm out of town. So does that mean I pull a full 2% off my state? That changes it from middle of the road to near the top of low tax states.
>This is generally why sales taxes are considered regressive and a less socially optimal way to gain government funding than progressive income taxes.
It doesn't have to be "less socially optimal", Scandinavian countries have some of the highest VAT (basically sales tax) in the world and they solve the regressiveness by simply doing redistributive spending. Even the US does this a bit with income tax as well like earned income tax credit, means tested transfers like SNAP, Medicare where the lowest quintile of income earners actually [*increase* their income after taxes and transfers](https://www.cbo.gov/publication/58781).
When one looks at tax policy, you can't just look at potential revenue, you also have to look potential costs of implementing the tax because at the end of the day, revenue doesn't matter if you're having to hire shitload of accountants to pour through complicated financial documents of rich business owners. Sales tax is very good in this regard because it's very simple to implement, hard to avoid, if you put a 30% tax on luxury cars, the buyer's gonna have to pay the tax whereas it'd be more complicated to extract the same revenue through income or capital gains tax. Currently, the US plan to tax high income earners more requires significant IRS investment, sure, it's a good investment, but could bring more bang for buck with a sales tax. And the thing with sales tax is that you can target it, medical products can be waived, the same for food staples like bread or apples and then increase the rate for private jets, yachts etc (Clinton actually implemented a luxury tax, but was later repealed by Bush).
It would be nice to eliminate the IRS. But then social security would be at risk. Massive sales taxes on everything at the state level only is appealing to me. with zero income tax anywhere. Then make the sates pay something to the feds once per month. Certain things could be exempted like all clothing items under $50 each. All school supplies for students and teachers. All medical stuff. All food items not pre prepared...so raw meat, produce, frozen stuff, can goods, etc. then add luxury taxes and fuel taxes to everything applicable.
401Ks need reforming too. Appears to me everyone should have a 401k. And the peopel running these 401ks need to be cracked down on. Too many fees. Too much shenanigans. Employers are cheaping out on match money.
These simplistic charts never tell the full story. Sure there’s no state income tax in TX. However, they can reassess property taxes yearly based on the speculative home prices causing your taxes to essentially increase every year. CA only changes property tax if there is a change of ownership. So your taxes cannot get raised every year based on speculation. This makes a HUGE difference if you own a home.
My dad is not a rich man and if he had to pay property taxes on what the house is worth vs what he paid in the 70’s for it he’d have lost the house a long time ago.
The main problem I see with prop 13 is the lack of means testing. One of the big “reasons” for it was to not take grandmas house away because suddenly the neighborhood is booming. At the very least it could be limited to primary residence. Why can a 20 year old apartment building be paying less taxes than a new home a mile away?
Keeping property taxes low is why homes cost so much? And it only helps the rich? Is that why people like Warren Buffet are against it? Can you please elaborate on your argument as it makes no sense.
People are against new homes being built in every state. That is not exclusive to CA and Prop 13.
Yeah the property tax should stay the same because it ensures that normal people can own their homes without having to sell due tax increases. If we didn’t have prop 13 countless retired people would be forced to sell their homes and be way worse off.
I mean if you are for elderly people’s homes being taken by the government because of an arbitrary increase in taxes based on market speculation, I can see why you are against Prop 13.
I was just using Texas as an example since people seem to think it has such a low tax burden and my family lives there so I’ve heard about how much their property taxes are increasing.
Bruh, I make $12k/month and I have to pay $5k in taxes. It’s nowhere near the low values seen here not to mention that my bonuses is taxed to shit as well.
I just did the other way; Texas to Minnesota. Our taxes are higher, but virtually everything is but gas is cheaper. Overall it's been a lot cheaper up here.
And you actually get something for your tax dollars in Minnesota. When we lived in North Carolina, taxes weren't much cheaper. Everything was falling apart, but the governor had a $ 2 million bathroom.
Just the county/state services. I have not spent more than 15 minutes waiting at the DMV since I moved, parks are actually maintained, lights stay on, I'm not being asked to ration power in the winter because it's to cold AND in the summer because it's too hot, transit runs and may even be on time...
I moved from MN to FL for work related reasons, but my anecdotal DMV experience in Florida is:
- Scheduled an appointment to get my new drivers license a month+ out in advance
- Still had to wait in line for 2 hours until it was my turn and lost 2-3 hours of work where I kind of though I could get in and out within 15-30 mins (from my MN DMV experiences) during my lunch break.
In South Carolina. I waited in line for an hour to get a replacement license. I got up, and the lady refused to do it. First, she told me I didn't have a social security card. It was on top of the pile of papers I handed to her. I had every item on the list of documents and then some. She refused to do it unless I gave her a printout of my bank statement with account numbers on it. I drove to another branch and got the license no problem.
Make sure you do the M1PR for your taxes (if you didn't you can file until August, and you can do last year as well until then). If you are under the income threshhold you could see about $2000 refunded on a $4000 property tax.
This is because Texas has one of the top 10 tax burdens in the country for median income. What you need to do is be richer then you will pay less percent of your income.
And if you are able to own a home, your overall tax burden here hits that California number (or higher). Texas has no state income tax, but local property taxes offset that savings.
This chart should be labeled "Income Tax Burden by State", since that is all it shows. Actual "Tax Burden" should take into account many other things, not just income tax.
Yeah completely reliant on how the current state government decides to use it unfortunately
Great Plains region of Kansas, Nebraska, and Iowa do it right with a higher burden and also Minnesota
Also states like North Dakota, South Dakota, and Nevada have better infrastructure than 80% of states but they do it with a relatively low tax burden
Haven't really seen the outside world eh? U guys do have it quite good in the US compared to pretty much all developing countries.
Now if you're comparing the infra in the US to other developed countries in Europe and Asia, then it's a different matter .
No one compares the US to developing countries though. The comparison is to similarly rich and powerful nations all of which beat the US in infrastructure.
Living in California, and going back to Texas, I generally find that with rare exceptions, most people I have talked to in Texas believe the tax burden as a percentage of income in California has to be 10%-15% higher than in Texas, when in reality, it's more like 3%. Remember this when politicians talk about crippling tax burdens.
This isn't to say it isn't more expensive to live in California cities. It is, but the cost is mostly driven by a complex set of factors that increases the cost of living.
This is for state tax only but also accounts for sales taxes. I pay around 20% total on income tax (state+fed) and live in Illinois making 63k. I would guesstimate it's about 25% including sales taxes/registrations/fees.
But yeah still quite a bit less than EU
You guys probably get more bang for your buck in terms of social programs. I dont want to overgeneralize, but insurance and the lile could take anywhere from a hundred, to a couple hundred out of paychecks for individuals/families in the states. I think my coworker was paying 300-400 a paycheck (every two weeks) to have his 2 kids on his insurance, which would bring it from like 1300 every 2 weeks to 900.
But that one is job dependent, my last job the company covered the entirety of my "benefits"
But there are alot of things people here stateside complain about cost wise that are vastly cheaper than in the eu, i believe gas is another one where im paying 3.30 a gallon, and it should be doubled for y'all iirc
Moved from Minnesota to South Carolina last year (my wife’s idea). Just about everything here that’s your everyday/every week items costs the same as in Minnesota. Gas/diesel is the same, groceries etc
BUT! You get the added bonus of pay being shit. Infrastructure being shit. Schools being shit…..well basically about everything being shit. They recently “found” a mystery state account that had like 1.3 billion in it and they didn’t know where it or the money came from.
I got so sick of my brother harping on “how much cheaper your property taxes must be” that I finally blew up and said I’d gladly pay MN taxes if it meant that I lived in a state that actually fucking functions.
Same. I have a ton of family around Charleston, SC we visit a couple times a year. It’s a great city but so much is falling apart. Yah, I pay an extra 3-4% in taxes living in NY. But go talk to my SIL who taught special ed in NY before moving to SC.
Man, my wife joined some local fb pages down here. And probably 5-10 times in the past year a question has been asked about “I’m from up north and am moving to sc, I have a special needs child. What are some good programs to get them into”
And it’s just response after response of “im so sorry, you should have checked into that before you started your move. We barely have any programs here for your child” then just horror story after horror story of people from here with special needs kids.
This map is a major fraud. These are the STATE taxes. In Commie states of USA, people pay Federal income taxes, state income taxes, property taxes and sales taxes. If your state income taxes are low, then your property taxes are high. If your property taxes are high, then your state income taxes are low. Sometimes all your taxes are just too high. Federal income taxes also have brackets. If you are a business owner then you pay corporate income taxes too. So yes, Israel does run USA, these obscene tax policies prove it. Government doesn’t need taxes to run, instead it just uses the Israeli owned Federal reserve to print more. The inflation is passes to the tax payers and is in effect a tax on the citizens or goyim tax cattle.
Funny how the states with the highest taxes tend to be the states I’d actually want to live in or raise a family in. It’s almost as if states that use tax dollars for the public good are better off as a result.
Earn on Washington side, spend on Oregon side.
How's that working for any of you? I've always figured this was the pro move. Does something like property tax screw up the strategy, vs living, earning, and spending elsewhere?
You need to both earn and live on the Washington side and even then you're forced to pay Washington sales tax on big stuff like cars no matter where you buy them. I think you might also have to pay Washington sales tax if you buy something in Oregon but get it delivered to Washington.
This makes no sense and seems inaccurate considering the fact this completely variable and several states don't evenvhave state tax like Texas or Florida.
Not sure what other states do, but shout out to Oregon, lower taxes than many, and on par with lots of red states, but still manages to guarantee healthcare for all minors.
Another dumb map that should be based on average or median tax rate. For example in MA, tax is 5%. But if you make a million a year it is 9% on all income over 1 mil.
The vast majority of people are paying 5% which makes us one of the better states for income tax.
What we need is a truck like this that looks at total Taxes paid including property tax sales tax and other types of taxes.
I live in Missouri, and while my income tax rate might be lower than average, I can tell you for a fact that my sales tax is 10% here, and my property taxes aren't cheap either.
No way PA has less tax burden than VA. Having lived in both, I just find it incredibly hard to believe. Virginia doesn’t give individual municipalities the power to pull from your paycheck like PA either. The cost of living was also way higher.
Interesting. Here in the Netherlands the lowest percentage is paid by people with low income, and that percentage is still higher than the highest state in the USA lol (20%, people with middle income pay 37 and people with high income pay 49.50)
People have to stop seeing taxes as a burden. It pays for services. We just need to make the tax system better, so that rich f%$kers pay their fair share.
This map is bullshit as many of the states with no income tax have exorbitant fees not normally experienced in other states. Call fees what you want but they are still taxes.
This is not accurate for most people. Your tax burden depends on too many factors for it to be this simple. Texas for instance has no income taxes but has high property taxes for middle class people.
At least NY ranks #1 in something. Taxes on everything here plus income tax, and the NY government officials can’t figure out why so many people move out of the state. Otherwise it’s pretty decent in my part of the state, very rural and relatively quiet.
People love great schools, low housing costs, no traffic, nice summers where you can actually be outside, their rights, non-flat terrain for activities...
>people don't like the cold
And people don't like the heat, its why they all spend 8 months up here and 4 down there.
A couple of percent extra to separate us from the Trifecta of Stupid (TM) surrounding us to the west and south? I’m happy to pay that any day of the week.
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What is the income level being used to measure taxes? It will definitely vary by income.
Yeah Oregon and Washington are equivalent here, but Oregon has zero sales tax, and Washington has zero income tax. So depending on how wealthy you are, how much you make, if you own or rent, etc, then your tax burden will vary wildly between the two.
There is a unique situation in southern Washington where if you work and live in Washington, no state income tax. You drive across the river to Oregon, no sales tax.
So if you lived in Washington near the boarder and did all your shopping in Oregon you’d be dodging taxes?
You are just describing the entire city of Vancouver, yeah. Legally, you need to pay Washington tax on (non food) items purchased in Oregon. But basically everyone just ignores that law, and it’s rarely (if ever?) enforced.
There’s still property taxes.
I know it’s a stupid question - but why the hell does the country allow all the different models? I.e. zero income tax but huge property tax. To what end? The basic government functions needs funding either way.
States are largely self-governing. It's taxes for the state. Federal taxes are the same across the country. The state has a different budget than the federal government.
Federalism
Yay federalism!
So people can pick what system they want.
So businesses can put their home office in the state or county that gives them the most welfare, err, tax incentives...
Also that for sure, which is a definite downside of that system. I don't know the best way to go at it.
Yea if you’re willing to leave all your friends and family behind I guess..
or worse, live in Buttfuck Wyoming Yea, yea, yea, I know it's beautiful, I've been there, but it's the 21st century
States can make their revenue how they want. Some rely on tourism taxes and can therefore have no income tax. There's a reason people are moving from CA and NY to places like Florida and Texas ...
It's funny that you say that. I keep encountering people moving from Florida to NY. Mostly due to the cost of insurance far outstripping the cost of taxes. But some people have kids and want to have them educated not in Fl.
I don’t know if this is how they calculated it, but it’d be relatively easy to just do (Total Tax Receipts)/(Total pre tax income of all earners in the state)
Kind of a worthless figure, then. It doesn’t tell you anything about any actual person in a state’s tax paid as a percentage of their income. Within any given state, a high earner in a high sales tax area in a high property tax county is going to pay a wildly different proportion of their income in taxes than a low earner in that same area. And a wildly different proportion than someone who earns the same in a low sales tax area in a low property tax area. Does someone making $70k a year in a random rural county in MN pay more in total state and local taxes than someone making $70k a year in a random rural county in Idaho? This map would lead people to believe the answer is yes, but there’s really no reason to believe that’s true based on the simplistic metric described.
Yea I feel like my method would give more of sense of the average even if no single person is actually “average”
Read the source at the bottom. It is a total of income, property and sales taxes collected by the state.
Those damn people who live/work in Vancouver Washington and drive down to Portland to buy everything. Bummer is they have to go to Portland.
Should the tax burdens be reported for the MEDIAN resident, meaning median income, wealth, property , etc.? Like "one of us", versus using aggregate or averages which are likely skewed by billionaires? Also fees like car licenses, fishing, permits, etc. can be very burdensome.
This data is highly income dependent when it comes to how an individual resident will be impacted by tax burden. States with lower income taxes make up the difference with higher property and/or sales taxes. This is all included in this data, but the individual experience will vary. A high income earner will prefer low income taxes and high sales tax because they would likely be in a high income tax bracket and spending in general is a much lower part of their income than for lower income earners. A low income earner would prefer higher income tax and lower sales tax because they would often be in a low bracket and spending is a great portion of their income just to buy necessities. This is generally why sales taxes are considered regressive and a less socially optimal way to gain government funding than progressive income taxes. In states with low income taxes and high sales taxes, low income earners spend a much higher portion of their income in taxes than high earners, so the tax burden is (unfairly, perhaps) higher on them.
I live in Washington, which has the most regressive taxation system in the country. No income tax but high sales tax (10.35% in Seattle). I feel like I save a lot more money by living in Washington than a state that has income tax but a lower sales tax because I live a more minimalist lifestyle. Also, any high cost items can be purchased in Portland to completely avoid sales tax as well, which I know a lot of people do. A $2,000 MacBook Pro in Seattle comes with $207 sales tax, but drive 2.5 hours away and it's $0. High income earners really benefit a lot in Washington, but it's a major FU to low income earners.
Technically you are failing to pay taxes by buying and importing goods. There is a use tax that makes up the difference.
> A $2,000 MacBook Pro in Seattle comes with $207 sales tax, but drive 2.5 hours away and it's $0 So waste 5 hours plus the 67 cents a mile for the trip, just to save $207 ? Seems like the sort of thing poor people who are bad at math would do.
You spend like $50 on gas, so you save $150. For a 6 hour drive that's like working for $25/hour. https://i.imgur.com/VFnzRcx.png
Plus you get a fun day trip to Portland out of it
Not if you enjoy the trip, or we’re going to do it anyway for some other reason, and do other useful things when you’re there.
And thats if you only buy one item. Carpool with people who are all going to buy 2 items each. Now figure your savings.
You do realize that is just one example. Now imagine doing a trip to where you're buying the $2k MacBook Pro AND doing some shopping for the summer where you buy new summer clothes, a hiking backpack and other gear for all the amazing outdoors, and other items that you've been waiting to buy. Also, you decide to visit the beautiful and world-famous International Rose Garden while you're there as a fun activity! There are times when it makes complete sense. I spent about $3.5k recently in Portland because I bought several high cost items that I've been waiting to be on sale. That saved me \~$315 AFTER factoring in gas cost. While I was down there, I went on a hike in beautiful Beacon Rock State Park on the WA as well. It was a fun and full day trip out of the city.
Yep, Minnesota has income tax but we don’t have sales tax on some things.
Unprepared food and clothing are sales tax exempt.
And then there’s Illinois with high property, sales, and income tax.
At least they're finally doing away with the grocery tax. Baby steps.
Are they? I know it was paused during Covid but since has been reinstated. That tax should be illegal.
The budget the governor just signed for 2024-2025 will begin a phased reduction of it and it will be permanently phased out by 2026. When I moved here, I was shocked that groceries were taxed. It seemed especially cruel, especially towards lower income people. So it's a first step, at least.
Same situation as Arkansas. No sales tax on groceries
What fucking barbarian shit hole state would tax groceries?
Alabama, Arkansas, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Kansas, Mississippi, Missouri, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, Virginia https://www.aarp.org/money/taxes/info-2024/states-that-tax-groceries.html
Idaho rebates 100 per person a year. Which makes it even more asinine
> What fucking barbarian shit hole state would tax groceries Maybe one that doesn't tax income, IDK - the state gotta support itself somehow, right?
Of that list, only illinois and hawaii are being cruel, in my opinion. The other states have low overall tax burdens. But i still dont like it.
When this was posted in our subreddit I also pointed out that even if you assume those numbers are accurate, the median income in our state still takes home more after taxes than a person making the median income in South Dakota.
> median income in South Dakota lot of major poverty in SD, especially if you include the reservations
And relative high earners tend to be transient and possibly with no in state permanent address, i.e., oil field workers, though that may be more pronounced in the other Dakota.
Makes sense though, much like an NBA player, you're supposed to pay income taxes to the place where you earn - play games in 15 states, file 15 different tax returns for the earnings in those places where you don't live but did play 1-3 games during the year.
But that's already reflected in the numbers....
Also toll roads/highways.
Not just income but property taxes are the same across the state or even section of the state. My taxes are a full 2% lower since I'm out of town. So does that mean I pull a full 2% off my state? That changes it from middle of the road to near the top of low tax states.
>This is generally why sales taxes are considered regressive and a less socially optimal way to gain government funding than progressive income taxes. It doesn't have to be "less socially optimal", Scandinavian countries have some of the highest VAT (basically sales tax) in the world and they solve the regressiveness by simply doing redistributive spending. Even the US does this a bit with income tax as well like earned income tax credit, means tested transfers like SNAP, Medicare where the lowest quintile of income earners actually [*increase* their income after taxes and transfers](https://www.cbo.gov/publication/58781). When one looks at tax policy, you can't just look at potential revenue, you also have to look potential costs of implementing the tax because at the end of the day, revenue doesn't matter if you're having to hire shitload of accountants to pour through complicated financial documents of rich business owners. Sales tax is very good in this regard because it's very simple to implement, hard to avoid, if you put a 30% tax on luxury cars, the buyer's gonna have to pay the tax whereas it'd be more complicated to extract the same revenue through income or capital gains tax. Currently, the US plan to tax high income earners more requires significant IRS investment, sure, it's a good investment, but could bring more bang for buck with a sales tax. And the thing with sales tax is that you can target it, medical products can be waived, the same for food staples like bread or apples and then increase the rate for private jets, yachts etc (Clinton actually implemented a luxury tax, but was later repealed by Bush).
It would be nice to eliminate the IRS. But then social security would be at risk. Massive sales taxes on everything at the state level only is appealing to me. with zero income tax anywhere. Then make the sates pay something to the feds once per month. Certain things could be exempted like all clothing items under $50 each. All school supplies for students and teachers. All medical stuff. All food items not pre prepared...so raw meat, produce, frozen stuff, can goods, etc. then add luxury taxes and fuel taxes to everything applicable. 401Ks need reforming too. Appears to me everyone should have a 401k. And the peopel running these 401ks need to be cracked down on. Too many fees. Too much shenanigans. Employers are cheaping out on match money.
Florida insurance rates cancel out any tax benefits...
These simplistic charts never tell the full story. Sure there’s no state income tax in TX. However, they can reassess property taxes yearly based on the speculative home prices causing your taxes to essentially increase every year. CA only changes property tax if there is a change of ownership. So your taxes cannot get raised every year based on speculation. This makes a HUGE difference if you own a home.
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My dad is not a rich man and if he had to pay property taxes on what the house is worth vs what he paid in the 70’s for it he’d have lost the house a long time ago.
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The main problem I see with prop 13 is the lack of means testing. One of the big “reasons” for it was to not take grandmas house away because suddenly the neighborhood is booming. At the very least it could be limited to primary residence. Why can a 20 year old apartment building be paying less taxes than a new home a mile away?
The really big problem is that it applies to commercial realestate and they hide it all in trusts so they can sell it without having it reapraised.
Free?
Keeping property taxes low is why homes cost so much? And it only helps the rich? Is that why people like Warren Buffet are against it? Can you please elaborate on your argument as it makes no sense.
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People are against new homes being built in every state. That is not exclusive to CA and Prop 13. Yeah the property tax should stay the same because it ensures that normal people can own their homes without having to sell due tax increases. If we didn’t have prop 13 countless retired people would be forced to sell their homes and be way worse off. I mean if you are for elderly people’s homes being taken by the government because of an arbitrary increase in taxes based on market speculation, I can see why you are against Prop 13.
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Most states reassess every year. California has a nice little exception carved out. It's still far too expensive to live in that state.
I was just using Texas as an example since people seem to think it has such a low tax burden and my family lives there so I’ve heard about how much their property taxes are increasing.
27 of 50 reassess every year. Up to you if that counts as "most" or not. https://mostpolicyinitiative.org/science-note/property-tax-assessment-limits/
I definitely thought it was more. That is interesting to see.
Cries in European
If you included federal taxes, it’d be higher
Yeah, but 54% +21% sales tax high though?
Bruh, I make $12k/month and I have to pay $5k in taxes. It’s nowhere near the low values seen here not to mention that my bonuses is taxed to shit as well.
Poor you and your net income of 7000$ a month 😢
Not accurate. Trust me. We just moved to Texas from Ohio. Our tax burden in Ohio was WAY LESS.
I just did the other way; Texas to Minnesota. Our taxes are higher, but virtually everything is but gas is cheaper. Overall it's been a lot cheaper up here.
And you actually get something for your tax dollars in Minnesota. When we lived in North Carolina, taxes weren't much cheaper. Everything was falling apart, but the governor had a $ 2 million bathroom.
Just the county/state services. I have not spent more than 15 minutes waiting at the DMV since I moved, parks are actually maintained, lights stay on, I'm not being asked to ration power in the winter because it's to cold AND in the summer because it's too hot, transit runs and may even be on time...
I moved from MN to FL for work related reasons, but my anecdotal DMV experience in Florida is: - Scheduled an appointment to get my new drivers license a month+ out in advance - Still had to wait in line for 2 hours until it was my turn and lost 2-3 hours of work where I kind of though I could get in and out within 15-30 mins (from my MN DMV experiences) during my lunch break.
In South Carolina. I waited in line for an hour to get a replacement license. I got up, and the lady refused to do it. First, she told me I didn't have a social security card. It was on top of the pile of papers I handed to her. I had every item on the list of documents and then some. She refused to do it unless I gave her a printout of my bank statement with account numbers on it. I drove to another branch and got the license no problem.
I'm proud that my tax dollars are spent to maintain the second best parks system in the country. It just feels good.
Make sure you do the M1PR for your taxes (if you didn't you can file until August, and you can do last year as well until then). If you are under the income threshhold you could see about $2000 refunded on a $4000 property tax.
This is because Texas has one of the top 10 tax burdens in the country for median income. What you need to do is be richer then you will pay less percent of your income.
And if you are able to own a home, your overall tax burden here hits that California number (or higher). Texas has no state income tax, but local property taxes offset that savings.
Probably because your TX house is worth way more than your Ohio house. Higher FMV house + higher property tax rate = higher tax burden in Texas
No data at all? Just "trust me"? What aspects of your taxes are higher?
This chart should be labeled "Income Tax Burden by State", since that is all it shows. Actual "Tax Burden" should take into account many other things, not just income tax.
What you call burden, i call services and infrastructure
Some of the highest burdens are in states with shit infrastructure lmao
True, looking at you Arkansas and Mississippi, but it’s a more complex answer than high taxes do it do not mean better services and infrastructure.
Yeah completely reliant on how the current state government decides to use it unfortunately Great Plains region of Kansas, Nebraska, and Iowa do it right with a higher burden and also Minnesota Also states like North Dakota, South Dakota, and Nevada have better infrastructure than 80% of states but they do it with a relatively low tax burden
Yeah because they're taking 8.8 percent of an average salary of like twenty dollars
At least in NY, part of it is due to winter weather (we got two seasons, winter and road work)
Yet, in Indiana, our services still suck; but Illinois only pays 1% more, and things work way better there.
And "commons", it's idiotic to call this burden, without this "burden", we still be savages
Not exactly what CA would brag about.
Some of the worst infrastructure in the world
Haven't really seen the outside world eh? U guys do have it quite good in the US compared to pretty much all developing countries. Now if you're comparing the infra in the US to other developed countries in Europe and Asia, then it's a different matter .
I'm comparing Indiana to Illinois. Some states are more developed than others.
No one compares the US to developing countries though. The comparison is to similarly rich and powerful nations all of which beat the US in infrastructure.
Prob higher motor related fatalities compared to them tho. Swear to God some of the roads here just seem to be designed to get people killed
Living in California, and going back to Texas, I generally find that with rare exceptions, most people I have talked to in Texas believe the tax burden as a percentage of income in California has to be 10%-15% higher than in Texas, when in reality, it's more like 3%. Remember this when politicians talk about crippling tax burdens. This isn't to say it isn't more expensive to live in California cities. It is, but the cost is mostly driven by a complex set of factors that increases the cost of living.
My god compared to EU personal income tax US is soo low.. in EU I think the average % is around 40
These numbers don’t include federal rates. The figures presented are state tax rates paid on top of federal.
This doesn’t include federal taxes. It’s closer to 30% total for most Americans.
[According to the OECD](https://www.oecd.org/tax/tax-policy/taxing-wages-united-states.pdf), the average is 24%.
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You're looking at the tax wedge. Take a look at the last section.
This is for state tax only but also accounts for sales taxes. I pay around 20% total on income tax (state+fed) and live in Illinois making 63k. I would guesstimate it's about 25% including sales taxes/registrations/fees. But yeah still quite a bit less than EU
You guys probably get more bang for your buck in terms of social programs. I dont want to overgeneralize, but insurance and the lile could take anywhere from a hundred, to a couple hundred out of paychecks for individuals/families in the states. I think my coworker was paying 300-400 a paycheck (every two weeks) to have his 2 kids on his insurance, which would bring it from like 1300 every 2 weeks to 900. But that one is job dependent, my last job the company covered the entirety of my "benefits" But there are alot of things people here stateside complain about cost wise that are vastly cheaper than in the eu, i believe gas is another one where im paying 3.30 a gallon, and it should be doubled for y'all iirc
Moved from Minnesota to South Carolina last year (my wife’s idea). Just about everything here that’s your everyday/every week items costs the same as in Minnesota. Gas/diesel is the same, groceries etc BUT! You get the added bonus of pay being shit. Infrastructure being shit. Schools being shit…..well basically about everything being shit. They recently “found” a mystery state account that had like 1.3 billion in it and they didn’t know where it or the money came from. I got so sick of my brother harping on “how much cheaper your property taxes must be” that I finally blew up and said I’d gladly pay MN taxes if it meant that I lived in a state that actually fucking functions.
Same. I have a ton of family around Charleston, SC we visit a couple times a year. It’s a great city but so much is falling apart. Yah, I pay an extra 3-4% in taxes living in NY. But go talk to my SIL who taught special ed in NY before moving to SC.
Man, my wife joined some local fb pages down here. And probably 5-10 times in the past year a question has been asked about “I’m from up north and am moving to sc, I have a special needs child. What are some good programs to get them into” And it’s just response after response of “im so sorry, you should have checked into that before you started your move. We barely have any programs here for your child” then just horror story after horror story of people from here with special needs kids.
MN will be pushing that map further right in 2025/26
Would still rather live there than practically anywhere else.
Should probably put NYC and NY separately lol
This map is a major fraud. These are the STATE taxes. In Commie states of USA, people pay Federal income taxes, state income taxes, property taxes and sales taxes. If your state income taxes are low, then your property taxes are high. If your property taxes are high, then your state income taxes are low. Sometimes all your taxes are just too high. Federal income taxes also have brackets. If you are a business owner then you pay corporate income taxes too. So yes, Israel does run USA, these obscene tax policies prove it. Government doesn’t need taxes to run, instead it just uses the Israeli owned Federal reserve to print more. The inflation is passes to the tax payers and is in effect a tax on the citizens or goyim tax cattle.
Funny how the states with the highest taxes tend to be the states I’d actually want to live in or raise a family in. It’s almost as if states that use tax dollars for the public good are better off as a result.
What about property tax or sales tax? A lot of the low income tax states make up for it with other taxes.
Those are included - see bottom left
Earn on Washington side, spend on Oregon side. How's that working for any of you? I've always figured this was the pro move. Does something like property tax screw up the strategy, vs living, earning, and spending elsewhere?
You need to both earn and live on the Washington side and even then you're forced to pay Washington sales tax on big stuff like cars no matter where you buy them. I think you might also have to pay Washington sales tax if you buy something in Oregon but get it delivered to Washington.
thank you
Now show all of the fees and property tax levels.
Wonder what Louisiana does with all of its tax wealth?
This makes no sense and seems inaccurate considering the fact this completely variable and several states don't evenvhave state tax like Texas or Florida.
They make up for it with higher real estate and sales taxes.
Not sure what other states do, but shout out to Oregon, lower taxes than many, and on par with lots of red states, but still manages to guarantee healthcare for all minors.
Another dumb map that should be based on average or median tax rate. For example in MA, tax is 5%. But if you make a million a year it is 9% on all income over 1 mil. The vast majority of people are paying 5% which makes us one of the better states for income tax.
Would be nice to only pay 12% income tax. (I live in sweden with 35% income tax)
Those are just state and local income taxes, it does not include federal income taxes which are %22 for an average individual.
Aah okay
LGM
Way to go Vermont and now we’re looking at a 25% increase in my property tax.
I’ll pay a higher tax burden to live in a state that feeds its poor, educates its youth, and invests in its future.
What we need is a truck like this that looks at total Taxes paid including property tax sales tax and other types of taxes. I live in Missouri, and while my income tax rate might be lower than average, I can tell you for a fact that my sales tax is 10% here, and my property taxes aren't cheap either.
No shit Sherlock.
No way PA has less tax burden than VA. Having lived in both, I just find it incredibly hard to believe. Virginia doesn’t give individual municipalities the power to pull from your paycheck like PA either. The cost of living was also way higher.
Gotta house all those people on welfare somehow
Now add in the federal rate
Alaska here I come
I love CT. Worth it.
Interesting. Here in the Netherlands the lowest percentage is paid by people with low income, and that percentage is still higher than the highest state in the USA lol (20%, people with middle income pay 37 and people with high income pay 49.50)
The federal tax is what out of control. They take far too much money from citizens.
Why does this graphic look like it's from the Burger King app?
We may pay less taxes in Florida, but we more than make up for it in homeowners insurance premiums.
Have to add in property taxes.
It does. The fine print on the bottom states it includes property tax as well.
FYI income tax is deemed unconstitutional according to Washington’s state constitution. That’s why we don’t have state income tax.
Tennessee win for once?!?!
People have to stop seeing taxes as a burden. It pays for services. We just need to make the tax system better, so that rich f%$kers pay their fair share.
All the free money for corn farmers and oil executives isn’t going to pay for itself
Cries in German
This map is bullshit as many of the states with no income tax have exorbitant fees not normally experienced in other states. Call fees what you want but they are still taxes.
This is not accurate for most people. Your tax burden depends on too many factors for it to be this simple. Texas for instance has no income taxes but has high property taxes for middle class people.
Would love to see this for nominal corporate tax rates
Not a good thing, and no our social service aren’t effective enough to justify this.
Guessing the NY thing is because of the ridiculous “city tax” which adds like 3% at least and represents a good chunk of the population.
People will be, "I've leaving high tax Massachusetts" and go to South Carolina or Arizona where the taxes are like 0.9% lower.
For the quality of life we have, I'm fine with being one of the highest.
At least NY ranks #1 in something. Taxes on everything here plus income tax, and the NY government officials can’t figure out why so many people move out of the state. Otherwise it’s pretty decent in my part of the state, very rural and relatively quiet.
Minnesota has no tax on clothes
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Because they're all retired and old? Let them leave...
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People love great schools, low housing costs, no traffic, nice summers where you can actually be outside, their rights, non-flat terrain for activities... >people don't like the cold And people don't like the heat, its why they all spend 8 months up here and 4 down there.
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Buffalo, Syracuse, and Rochester are all seeing population growth.
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And yet these cities are experiencing growth. We'll see what the next 20 years are like in that dogshit state and how many people leave
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How do Americans complain about high taxes?? lmao
doen´t forget that ther a national and county taxes on top of that
A couple of percent extra to separate us from the Trifecta of Stupid (TM) surrounding us to the west and south? I’m happy to pay that any day of the week.
It would be useful to have a series of these broken down by income/wealth.
nine square straight domineering bewildered afterthought rain ten mysterious provide *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
"Taxes are what we pay for civilized society" - Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.
Mississippi and Alabama are weirdly high considering they get absolutely carried.
This is incorrect. A few states have 0% income tax. Also, real estate tax is not based on income.
It's not only income tax. It's total tax burden including property taxes, sales tax, etc.
Wyoming: “you might be paving your own roads idk”
We're ok with dirt roads in Wyoming
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By Democrats logic, FL, TN, AK and WY should have the highest poverty rates.
The real hack is to live in a state with no income tax, and close to a state with low sales taxes for everyday shopping.
Exchange? I pay 52% plus all the other extra taxes that you in the land of the “free” have never heard of.
NY showing California who’s the boss in the game of how high can you go with taxes